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February 9, 2003

Unbelievably, the New York City powers-that-be are throwing up obstacles to a perfectly unexceptionable antiwar march on February 15.

Remember the New York Sun? First new newspaper started in NYC in umpty-blivet years? Focus of blogospheric excitement and general tra-la? I saved a copy of the first issue. Well, here’s the intellectual and moral caliber of the New York Sun.

Here’s where Jim Henley is keeping track of the pro-war bloggers with the cojones to repudiate that disgusting exercise. A short list, but a noble one.

Here’s a New Yorker—indeed, a Brooklynite—displaying city residents’ traditional attitude toward being told when and where we’re allowed to say what we think.

Here’s where you can tell New York City officials what you think of this exercise in bureaucratic obstructionism. What unbelievable wankers. [12:06 AM]

Welcome to Electrolite's comments section.
Hard-Hitting Moderator: Teresa Nielsen Hayden.

Comments on Unbelievably,:

Avram ::: (view all by) ::: February 09, 2003, 01:23 AM:

Dammit, I've already got a committment for Feb. 15th.

Stefan Jones ::: (view all by) ::: February 09, 2003, 01:59 AM:

*Treason* prosecution?

Dear gawd, who *writes* those editorials? Did they put up a want ad on Free Republic?

Maybe they're channeling T. Herman Zweibel?

(META: Patrick, the link to Jim Henley's list is broken.)

Mary Kay ::: (view all by) ::: February 09, 2003, 03:28 AM:

Avram: You and me both. I'll be at Boskone then. Perhaps we should organize a sympathetic sit in or something.

Treason my ass.


Bill Woods ::: (view all by) ::: February 09, 2003, 05:23 AM:

The link to Jim Henley is wrong. Presumably it should be to somewhere on http://www.highclearing.com/ .

Kevin J. Maroney ::: (view all by) ::: February 09, 2003, 05:39 AM:

Anti-war rally, noon, the first day of the bombing, in Times Square. My guess is that bombing starts on Feb. 14, after the next inspectors' report.

Over dinner tonight, a friend of mine told me of a conversation he had had with a conservative friend (who is a friendly acquaintance of mine) with extensive ties in the military-industrial complex. The mutual friend said that he believes the war starts within the week. I wouldn't put any credence to this rumor except for the withdrawl of embassy personnel at all US embassies in the Mid-East and the "Condition Orange" escalation. I now think that the counter-intelligence forces in the US have received direct information that terrorists will strike when the US starts the bombing of Iraq.

I dunno. It's very late. Paranoia makes sense to me right now.

Huh. Prince Abdullah is about to propose massive democratic reforms in Saudi Arabia. Let's see if he follows through, and if he's killed for the attempt.

James D. Macdonald ::: (view all by) ::: February 09, 2003, 08:00 AM:

"...if terrorists strike again at America and kill large numbers of Americans, the pressure to curb civil liberties and civil rights will be 'enormous and unstoppable.' "

And the New York Sun doesn't want to wait that long. They don't think that there's any need for civil liberties or civil rights right now.

"So the New York City police could do worse, in the end, than to allow the protest and send two witnesses along for each participant, with an eye toward preserving at least the possibility of an eventual treason prosecution."

Should they do this, make sure you get the names of the traitors who show up to be "witnesses," for the eventual war-crimes trials.

"Those who stand on the platform and openly approve the war will stand on the scaffold and weepingly regret it."

Teresa Nielsen Hayden ::: (view all by) ::: February 09, 2003, 09:50 AM:

The New York Sun is now permanently in my bad graces, until such time as they do public penance in sackcloth and ashes for calling me (or any other protester) a traitor. I may eventually back down on requiring them to mention me specifically in the apology, but the public sackcloth and ashes are non-negotiable.

Scott Baron ::: (view all by) ::: February 09, 2003, 01:40 PM:

I don't expect the attack to start until March 1, which is the next new moon in the desert (I believe). We still have some assets to get into place, after all. The 101st just received deployment orders at the end of this past week, and they're going to be in the thick of it.

New moon is always when we prefer to attack, as it gives our technological edge overwhelming superiority in night fighting.

That's just my guess, and has been since Christmas.

I hope all NYC folks are marching next Saturday (I know folks here wouldn't miss it).

Yehudit ::: (view all by) ::: February 09, 2003, 10:46 PM:

UFPJ already has a rally permit. They can gather in front of the UN in a huge crowd and make speeches. They do not have a parade permit, therefore they cannot march past the UN. Diane makes a good case that this is simply a safety issue.

Gary Farber ::: (view all by) ::: February 09, 2003, 11:13 PM:

I blogged on this yesterday here, or scroll to "this is odious." If you want a clue as to what I thought. Comment on Patriot II here, or scroll to the very subtle "Patriot II" heading.

Blogged on what you can do to support the march here, or scroll to "FREEDOM TO MARCH." As I said, I'm leaning pro-war, but I'm damn sure for people's right to speak up in the other direction.

Kevin Andrew Murphy ::: (view all by) ::: February 10, 2003, 02:55 AM:

You know, I just encountered the "sedition" and "aid and comfort to the enemy" tripe last week as part of a discussion at an otherwise excellent formalist poetry board.

The Sun's editorial is beyond the pale, however.

James D. Macdonald ::: (view all by) ::: February 10, 2003, 06:56 AM:

What's this "sedition" and "aid and comfort to the enemy" stuff? Where's the declaration of war?

No declaration of war, no enemy, no aid and comfort. It really is that simple.

Stefan Jones ::: (view all by) ::: February 10, 2003, 12:49 PM:

Be patient. We'll find out today's enemy during this afternoon's Three Minute Hate.

Paul ::: (view all by) ::: February 10, 2003, 01:10 PM:

Here's Treason Is In The Air, a 1901 editorial that called for the deportation of Benjamin Harrison and Mark Twain "in order that the philanthropic and beneficent war now being waged against the said Filipinos by the present Administration shall not be further condemned and interfered with by them."

Sure can count on the yellow press, can't you?

Mark Bourne ::: (view all by) ::: February 10, 2003, 04:25 PM:

As reported in Joe Conason's Journal at today's Salon.com:


Sun's First Amendment eclipse

How weak is the argument for war? Aside from the shifty and specious reasoning of the ultrahawks, a telltale sign is their growing impulse to suppress dissent. Conservatives who pompously insist on "strict" adherence to the letter of the Constitution are suddenly eager to suspend the First Amendment. Consider last Thursday's editorial in the New York Sun, headlined "Comfort and the Protesters," which showed up in my mailbox the other day.

I was startled to see that this essay began by praising the mayor and the police commissioner for holding up a parade permit needed by antiwar protesters who plan to march past the United Nations on Feb. 15: "The longer they delay in granting the protesters a permit, the less time the organizers have to get their turnout organized, and the smaller the crowd is likely to be."
etc., end quote---

Yehudit ::: (view all by) ::: February 11, 2003, 02:49 PM:

The Sun's editorial is indeed odious. Most of the "warbloggers" (most of whom are fairly libertarian rather than conservative) have denounced it.

However, UFPJ already has a rally permit. Therefore no one is suppressing free speech or free assembly. What is at issue is a parade (march) permit. The only difference would be whether the huge mass of participants will mill about in one place in front of the UN, or march past the UN. Big difference.

Series of posts on this issue.

Patriot ::: (view all by) ::: February 18, 2003, 07:19 PM:

Let's hope anti-war rallies don't encorage Saddam's deliveries of "presents" via your friendly neighborhood sleeper cells. Ah, aid and comfort to the enemy. Only in America.