March 16, 2003
I have very mixed feelings about Americans disliking the French. I’m English, after all. We have a special relationship with the French: we are in awe of their sophistication, their cuisine and their wines, we think their women are beautiful, we like them as individuals, we badly want to go and live in their country when we retire, while at the same time we are deeply suspicious of them. It’s like having people living next door to you who may be snappier dressers and better cooks, but who, after all, borrowed the lawn mower sometime in the thirteenth century and never gave it back. Anyway, the English dislike the French. We’re really good at it. We’ve been doing it ever since we got up one day and realised that the Norman Conquerors were now, like it or not, Us, and weren’t conquering French people any more. We feel, frankly, that if anyone’s going to dislike the French, it’s going to be us. On the whole we manifest our dislike for them by drinking their wines, buying up their cigarettes, and, despite the fact that all English people can naturally roll their Rs and speak perfect French, declining to do so, and when forced by circumstances to speak French the English do it with an English accent on purpose.[06:11 PM]These are tactics we’ve worked out over the course of hundreds of years, and if carried on long enough, they will bring France to its knees. I’m English. I know these things.
Changing the name french fries to freedom fries, on the other hand, will just make them laugh at you.
You see, while the French are laughing, we burst out of the rabbit, taking them completely by surprise.
Freedom fries is American humor. It's America laughing - not entirely at France either. It is an unserious act. The alternative would be serious action against France so, for now, let's be unserious and just see how things work out.
"Freedom fries is American humor."
I'm sorry, but I've been an American for over 44 years, and this claim is simply a lie.
Not a mistake, not a misdirection. A lie.
It's humor when it's not in the House of Representatives.
On a related note, there's a petition being circulated here in New Orleans to rename the French Quarter. Ain't that great?
I'm waiting to see if the good people from the home of the "freedon fry" concept, Beaufort, NC, ever bother to look into the lingusitic origin of their fair city's name.
Freedomville, NC anyone?
oh, whups, that -ville suffix does have a french pedigree doesn't it?
Freedomburg? Freedom City? Freedom Crossroads? Bushington? Bushillvania?
Tuffington McKickassfields?
In six months, when the US is at war with the European Union (not to mention Russia, China, and the entire Arab world) this won't be so damn funny.
This weekend I had a dream where I took an old version of "An American in Paris" and changed it to "An American in FreedomTown," the song sequences were all overdubbed with variations of "Hail, Hail Freedonia".
The sequence with Kelly teaching the free kids an American song were pretty good.
The first reports I saw, of the guy in Beaufort, and the first few places that copied him, seemed pretty good-natured. They seemed to be deliberately expressing criticism of France's position on Iraq in a way that wouldn't do any real damage to anything--no call for boycotts, for instance.
The idiocy in the House of Representatives is another matter. They appear to have no grasp of the fact that this a completely unserious thing to be doing (surely several people there are old enough to have dim childhood memories of "victory salad"?), ranting on as if this were a significant thing to do. Of course, this may be understandable, because in Congress, the alternative to defending American honor in this silly way might turn out to be having a genuine discussion of the wisdom and purpose of Bush gang's headlong rush to war.
Yes, there's no such thing as right-wing PC. It's all in fun - can't you liberals take a joke? Conservatives can't get away with satire, because liberals take everything so seriously.
Yadda yadda yadda.
Heard it from Rush, heard it from a number of right-wingers (I've heard that Instabullsh*tter also takes that line).
Criticizing Our President In Time of War, of course, is Another Thing Entirely, and is Objectively Pro-Saddam.
According to TV news, people are agitating to have St. Patrick's Day be a national holiday in the USA.
So, next year, when the Beloved Father (and therefore, all right-thinking citizens) is pissed off at Ireland for being too assertive, or too green, or insufficiently nucular, or whatever... anybody want to guess what we'll rename the holiday? "St. Liberty's Freedom Day?"
Sometimes your best friend isn't the guy who agrees with you, it's the guy who's trying to keep you from doing something stupid.
Anti-France backlash grows ugly
The nonsense in congress over "freedom fries" is a perfect example (to me) of why our elected representatives have too much time on their hands. And if they took their damned jobs seriously they could probably get the nation's work done for the year in about 4 months' time.
"Freedom muffins" will be next.
Robin Cook just resigned from the Blair government. Challenge expected.
http://story.news.yahoo.com/news?tmpl=story&u=/ap/20030317/ap_on_re_mi_ea/britain_iraq
It's grotty real audio and all tht, but I think Cookie's resignaiton statement tonight will be worth watching live. There won't have been one like since Geoffrey Howe blew Margaret Thatcher off at the knees, and Cook is a rather more savage vivisectionist than HOwe.
Try http://www.bbc.co.uk/newsa/live/parliament.ram
I think I'm going to start telling people that I'm from Canada.
Interesting :o)
http://www.1heluva.com/cgi-bin/join.cgi?refer=23030
"Freedom fries" is American humor when decades go by and we get to laugh about our benighted and silly ancestors.
As a child, I was amused by reading lines like this in my history text: common German words were replaced with more patriotic alternatives, turning 91hamburger92 into 91liberty steak,92 91sauerkraut92 into 91liberty cabbage,92 and 91dachsund92 into 91liberty pup.92
That was WWI.
I'm thinking we should require all members of Congress and high government officials to take the AP American History exam and score something that would be accepted by a college for credit before they can take office. That might stop some of this idiocy, or the times when they've been confused as to the Presidential line of succession, or realizing that the UK in the Falklands was against the Monroe Doctrine.
"Freedom fries" is American humor when decades go by and we get to laugh about our benighted and silly ancestors.
As a child, I was amused by reading lines like this in my history text: common German words were replaced with more patriotic alternatives, turning 91hamburger92 into 91liberty steak,92 91sauerkraut92 into 91liberty cabbage,92 and 91dachsund92 into 91liberty pup.92
That was WWI.
I'm thinking we should require all members of Congress and high government officials to take the AP American History exam and score something that would be accepted by a college for credit before they can take office. That might stop some of this idiocy, or the times when they've been confused as to the Presidential line of succession, or realizing that the UK in the Falklands was against the Monroe Doctrine.
I can't believe you are all getting your undies in a bunch because of the stupidity of "freedom fries". Is it because you want to ignore the people who are voting with their pocketbooks and choosing Australian and California wines, taking a vacation in Mexico, and buying American cars? There will be a reckoning for France and Germany, and it won't be funny. Yes, you are free to have and state your opinion, but that does not mean there will not be consequences.
Zipity,
For your info, I'm not opposed to removing Saddam, and I'm not exactly tickled at the antics of Jacques Chirac.
On the other hand, I can't stand the lack of wit—and there's no other word for it—in the U.S. Congress. The last time a U.S. Representative made me laugh out loud was when Barney Frank opined about the Big Dig project that it would be easier to raise the whole city than depress Boston's central artery.
(He was right.) Seems to me the Brits get treated with decent quips from their MPs on a daily basis. Probably the reason so many Americans prefer watching the proceedings of Parliament on cable than the eye-crossingly dull goings on in the U.S. House.
"Sometimes your best friend isn't the guy who agrees with you, it's the guy who's trying to keep you from doing something stupid."
It's getting toward closing time in the world bar, and the French are trying to take our car keys away from us?
"There will be a reckoning for France and Germany, and it won't be funny."
Yup, there are people taking this darn seriously--people (ranging from Perle to Den Beste) who think we may actually end up at war with France over this. They're fools who have forgotten the difference between allies and slaves, or between friends and toadies Somebody take away their car keys before they try to drive home!
Hey I'm okay with "a reckoning for France & Germany" just as long as there's a reckoning for Bush, Cheney, et al. ;)
It's funny, but I don't have much confidence we will see ANY MEA CULPA if this turns out well for everyone but Saddam. I seem to remember a huge hue and cry in Europe over the strategic missiles Nato based there to offset the same done by the USSR. Soon the USSR ceased to exist. Anyone remember them saying, "Ooops, we really blew that one". And on the liberation of Kuwait? Many Leftiesae sent up a keening squeal that it was the end of the world. Anyone remember that? It really is beginning to look like the Anti-Warae movement just got lucky on the opposition to the Viet Nam war. Finally found a war that made no sense. Even a broken clock is right twice a day. If recent history has taught us anything, it's that the Leftae is intent on making itself evermore irrelevant. We may have room here now for an honest to god third party here soon.
I could see this having started as a joke, but when it was taken to the national media, nobody stood up and said, "Hey, guys, this is satire." No--we had congressmen start a push to relocate our dead soldiers out of France, we had people all across the nation following suit, jumping on the bandwagon--all of whom seem perfectly serious and who don't seem to care about how their actions are percieved.
Let's look at this from another angle--if you made the same jokes about any minority ethnic group and tried to marginalize their contributions to this country by renaming anything named after them, people would call it racism.
But it's the French--so apparently they don't count.
Hey, I saw a couple of highschool kids freedom-kissing the other day. And Buffy and Jody are in trouble with Mr. Freedom again. And I had a salad with freedom dressing, which went nicely with the freedom-cut green beans, and the sandwich with Freedom's mustard.
Gotta go to the drugstore and buy some freedom letters; got a hot date. I'm gonna wear my fancy tux shirt with the freedom cuffs.
Can we get away with 'Quebecois', or do we have to say "Freedom-Canadian"?
I mean, really. We just sound totally stupid, not that there's any hope of anything else with that congenital-and/or-drug-addled moron representing us on the international stage.
How do we fight back? I don't know, but I know that we can't let these jackasses take away our priceless rights and frenches!
Zipity doo-dahed:
"Even a broken clock is right twice a day."
Not necessarily true. A stopped analog clock is right twice a day, but since you don't know when it's right, it's not a lot of use. A stopped 24-hour clock is right once a day, same caveat. A stopped calendar clock might only be right one or two times in a month. A 'stopped' digital clock might display no time whatever.
A broken clock... well, how broken is broken? Works spilling out? Just making grunting noises? Hands slip back every now and then? If it loses one second a day, it won't be right for a long, long time. If it runs backwards, it'll be right several times over the course of a day.
Bush's clock may or may not be broken, but I think it's his calendar that needs fixing first.
"It's funny, but I don't have much confidence we will see ANY MEA CULPA if this turns out well for everyone but Saddam. I seem to remember a huge hue and cry in Europe over the strategic missiles Nato based there to offset the same done by the USSR. Soon the USSR ceased to exist."
Yeah, just like the rooster's crow makes the sun come up. The Berlin Wall thing happened because I changed my shampoo. The timing is undeniable.
Zippy misquoted the proverb: a STOPPED clock is right twice a day (it refers to an analog 12-hour clock). And a clock that runs backwards at the same speed it once ran forwards will be right four times a day. (If you know when it went wrong you can determine the actual time, too.)
I like this analogy because it shows how a person who is just completely wrong-headed and thinks backwards can appear to be more correct, or at any rate more interesting, than someone who's merely dull-witted and keeps droning on and on until he starts to froth at the mouth and fall over backwards...
And, to complete the analogy, sometimes if someone is reasoning validly from bad assumptions, you can learn a lot from listening to them -- but only if you know where they went wrong.
Oops, I'm wrong. If you know when the backwards clock went wrong you can determine that the time is one of two, six hours apart. Not as useful!
Umm... I knew some sap would bring up the digital clock. Do you also have a problem with "the early bird get's the worm? After all, not all birds eat worms." So you also believe that the US standing up to communists didn't lead to their downfall? Okay Skippy, whatever. As for admitting when you've made a mistake, at least Robert McNamara admitted they made a horrible mistake in Viet Nam. The list of Leftiesae who have apologized for supporting Russia, China, Khmer Rouge, etc. is a very short list.
And of course zipper, there's quite a long list of "leftists" who never supported the list o' nasties you posted. How about all the righties what supported Iraq back in the day there old son?
French fries are not French. I believe they are Belgian. French toast is American, originating from upstate New York in fact. The representative in charge of the cafeteria menu effectively wipes out my IQ surplus.
Speaking of IQ surplus, wouldn't it be great if we could pool IQ like a resource? I keep thinking of stuff like that now that I'm stridently avoiding TV news.
"Freedom-kissing" has kind of a ring to it, and makes some sense, unlike "freedom fries", "freedom toast", or any of the other silly examples. That one might possibly catch on.:)
Barry, I don't know if you thought you were replying to me, but I've believed for a couple of decades now that "PC" is one of the strongest and longest-lasting examples of the right wing accusing liberals of doing what they're doing themselves. I see a big difference between the first few people I saw being interviewed about their decisions to relabel French fries as "freedom fries" in their own restaurants, who didn't appear to be amazingly het up about the matter, and the House of Representatives doing the same thing, to the tune of intense, nonsensical rants about the French "stabbing us in the back", instead of having a serious debate on Bush's war policy.
Private individuals expressing political opinions by making choices about what they'll put on their restaurant menus, or what wines they'll buy, or whatever, is one thing. The Congress treating this kind of thing as an acceptable substitute for doing their jobs is another matter, and a national embarrassment.
There will be a reckoning for France and Germany, and it won't be funny.
No, it won't. France has many nuclear weapons, including some on SSBNs (at least 32 deployable missles, with MIRV capability.) Each M4 and M45 missle has 6 100-150kt warhead, which means, if we really wanted to have a recoking with France, they're SSBN force could destroy, oh, the 100 largest cities in the US. Within 20 minutes.
Never mind the other nukes they have.
Germany has the technology and engineering skill, and nuclear materials, to have functional nuclear weapons in weeks, if they so choose. Furthermore, German material engineering is still among the best -- expect those weapons to be quite effective. Germany doesn't have any strategic launchers, but if they need to, they could certainly build them -- or, merely pay the Russains and Ukranians for a few boosters.
Or, get together with the French, and put warheads on the Ariane space booster. The difference between an ICBM and a space booster? The ICBM doesn't go quite as far.
You'll note I'm not mention conventional forces. It doesn't matter. If US tanks enter France with hostile intent, French ICBMs will enter the US, with *very* hostile intent.
It's easy to beat up on third-world economies that you've been bombing military targets for the last decade. But when you decide that fellow members of the Nuclear Club are your enemies, then things get *really* interesting.
Zipity's right, of course. Since the US saved their asses in WWII the French really should just tow the line, forever and always, no matter what is at stake.
Sooner or later some soft-headed lefty will probably bring up Russia's six million plus casualties during WWII and the meat-grinder that was the Russian-front, or that it took the US two years to join the war and that in the end it was only because Japan attacked Pearl Harbor and Germany declared war. But really, it was only the US that had anything to do with Hitler's defeat in WWII. Hollywood wouldn't lie.
And since the US is the only reason we aren't all eating liberty cabbage97er, sauerkraut, I mean97the French shouldn't have any confusion as to who they should bow down to as their God and master.
And those soft-headed lefties who would revise history to suggest that the US wasn't the only reason that France is free today are as bad as the fools who suggest that Gorbachev had more to do with Soviet-Russia's last gasps than Reagan97who they will blasphemously call senile, to top it all off.
I don't want to spoil everyone's fun, but Robin Cook's resignation statement is at:
http://www.parliament.the-stationery-office.co.uk/pa/cm200203/cmhansrd/cm030317/debtext/30317-33.htm
Xopher, you might want to bring along a freedom tickler if that date is really hot.
This whole hate-the-French thing is the most idiotic trend of many. I wish I didn't have the feeling that Rupert Murdoch is consulting with some sinister PR firm about it all...
Hard-Hitting Moderator: Teresa Nielsen Hayden.
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