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September 9, 2003

Visual aid. Copped from Atrios.

[01:01 PM]

Welcome to Electrolite's comments section.
Hard-Hitting Moderator: Teresa Nielsen Hayden.

Comments on Visual aid.:

Avedon ::: (view all by) ::: September 09, 2003, 02:11 PM:

That chart would be so helpful if it said things like "To Haliburton at well above the market value" on it.

David W. ::: (view all by) ::: September 09, 2003, 03:32 PM:

Given a choice between incompetence and mendacity on the part of the Bush administration for this latest bill from the Iraq war (with many others sure to follow), the unavoidable choice is obviously both.

Jeff Crook ::: (view all by) ::: September 09, 2003, 03:37 PM:

Hmm. If throwing money at schools won't solve the problems of the school systems, why do you suppose throwing money at terrorism will make it go away? This is the Rebublican rhetorical model. Throwing money at something never solves anything. We don't need more money to rebuild Iraq, we need to test the rebuilders with standardized tests and get rid of the ones who can't cut it. We don't need more soldiers, we need to test the ones we have and make sure they are up to the standard of the war on terror.

The government run War on Terror is a miserable failure, and throwing more money at it won't solve anything. What we need are War on Terrorism Vouchers. I want to put my tax money where I think it can best be used to stamp out terrorism.

spacewaitress ::: (view all by) ::: September 09, 2003, 04:02 PM:

Jeff Crook:

That was awesome. May I quote you on my blog?

Jordin Kare ::: (view all by) ::: September 09, 2003, 04:31 PM:

I look at a chart like this, and I keep thinking that for a fraction of $78 billion, we could build a half-dozen advanced space launch systems. For $225 billion, or whatever today's total cost figure is, we could have orbiting hotels, lunar colonies, satellite solar power stations, and probably monthly shuttle flights to Mars.

Stefan Jones ::: (view all by) ::: September 09, 2003, 04:40 PM:

Of course, we'd end up with Mars run by Ares Inc., a subdivision of Halliburton.

Jordin Kare ::: (view all by) ::: September 10, 2003, 12:09 AM:

Stefan: Naah. A subsidiary of Lockheed-Martin.

Hey! Mars has a long history of launching both open and clandestine attacks on the United States, including the use of long-range ballistic missiles and chemical weapons -- supported by evidence at least as strong as that the Bushies used to justify invading Iraq. Perhaps we can persuade this administration to forego attacking Iran in favor of invading Mars.

Hmm, there must be *some* Mars probe data could be massaged to provide evidence of large deposits of oil...

Oliver Morton ::: (view all by) ::: September 10, 2003, 04:39 AM:

The Martian meteorite ALH 84001 had traces of polycyclic aromatic hydrocarbons in it; not large traces, and not clearly of Martian origin -- but surely close enough to red-planet crude for this government's work.

Maybe they could trot out Tommy Gold, who claims that Mars is stuffed with Black Gold. Of course they'd have to shut him up before he went on to claim that the earth is, too, and that if we just wait around all the wells will replenish themselves...

Ken MacLeod ::: (view all by) ::: September 10, 2003, 09:05 AM:

The Martian track record of destroying surveillance satellites looks like they have something to hide. Sure, there's a satellite there now, and more on the way, but by this time the Martians have become highly skilled at covering up their nefarious work. Heck, have any of our probes even seen the inside of one of those palaces we read about? And what are the Martian rulers doing building palaces while their people die of thirst? The whole canal network has completely dried up!

And Mars has just made its closest approach to Earth in 60 000 years!

If that doesn't show aggressive intent, I don't know what does.

Niall ::: (view all by) ::: September 10, 2003, 12:25 PM:

We mustn't ignore the fact that not once, ever, has the Martian regime gone to the people in a free and open election. Never in the history of the planet! Clearly we must bring Democracy and Freedom to Mars.

Claude Muncey ::: (view all by) ::: September 10, 2003, 01:10 PM:

We have to be able to fit the Face in Cydonia into this somehow . . .

Maybe as "evidence" of a cult of personality indicative of tyrannical government -- the image of a megalomaniac dictator visible from antoher planet! There it is, evidence of imminent threat visible in the sky!

Chris Quinones ::: (view all by) ::: September 10, 2003, 01:43 PM:

I pointed out in my LiveJournal that the timing of the Mars approach vs. the blackout was awfully suspicious.

Aaron ::: (view all by) ::: September 10, 2003, 01:54 PM:

Patrick: thank you for posting this graphic. It definitely puts things into perspective.

Jeff Crook: that was a great rant.

Alan Bostick ::: (view all by) ::: September 10, 2003, 02:10 PM:

Sources in MI6 allege that Mars could launch an attack that would destroy Woking in forty-five minutes.

Yonmei ::: (view all by) ::: September 10, 2003, 05:51 PM:

H.G.Wells has been found dead.

Stefan Jones ::: (view all by) ::: September 10, 2003, 07:57 PM:

And his body was hurridly cremated.

Stephanie Zvan ::: (view all by) ::: September 10, 2003, 10:29 PM:

Jeff, thank you. You--officially--rock.

And that's not the margarita talking, either. The cackling you heard a couple of minutes ago? That was the margarita--or a hysterical release of the tension raised by those numbers. Either way, blessed, if temporary, relief.

TechnoPeasant ::: (view all by) ::: September 14, 2003, 09:01 PM:

I have 9 questions, which if answered truthfully would be worth about 10 billion each - sadly, though, Bush will get the 87 Bil without answering them

1. Who gave the order on 9/11 for American fighter planes to stand down while several hijackings were taking place?
2. Show us the map of Iraq that Cheney drew with Bush's oil buddies in the secret meeting that took place prior to 9/11.
3. Before another penny can be committed, where is the $20 billion promised New York to rebuild?
4. Before another penny is committed, how large of a fund will we need to help the people harmed by Bush forcing the EPA to lie about the quality of the air? Should American tax payers pay for Bush's lie or should it come from his personal fortune?
5. Before another penny is committed, why are the veterans from the first Gulf War being treated so shabbily? How many of these young people are now dead of cancer due to their exposure to the dust left from American depleted uranium weapons?
6. Before another penny is committed, where is the trust fund for our current soldiers who will suffer debilitating diseases and die early deaths due to cancer from exposure to depleted uranium dust?
7. Before another penny is given to Halliburton, has there been an audit to see if the services paid for are being rendered? We pay for enough water for our troops but they don't seem to be getting it.
8. Why does the US use depleted uranium? These munitions are listed as WMD by the UN.
9. Why is this administration afraid of the International Court of Justice? Is it because they know they have violated the Geneva Convention and committed war crimes?

Avram ::: (view all by) ::: September 16, 2003, 01:40 AM:

I don't know which is more sad 97 that some jackass is spamming blog comment sections with sex-related ad links, or that said jackass forgot to put HREF attributes in the A tags so the ad links don't even work.

John M. Ford ::: (view all by) ::: September 16, 2003, 03:09 AM:

Note to Ken in particular:

One word: Mysterons.

Doesn't explain everything, but it's a start.

Alan Bostick ::: (view all by) ::: September 16, 2003, 12:10 PM:

John M. Ford: Aren't you engaging a trifle in revisionism? My recollection of what happened is that we attacked them.

%$#@! freeper trolls.

adamsj ::: (view all by) ::: September 16, 2003, 10:56 PM:

4-Aminobiphenyl, hexachlorobenzene
Dimethyl sulfate, chloromethyl methylether
2, 3, 7, 8-Tetrachlorodibenzo-
para-dioxin, carbon disulfide

Dibromochloropane, chlorinated
benzenes, 2-Nitropropane, pentachlorophenol,
Benzotrichloride, strontium chromate
1, 2-Dibromo-3-chloropropane

Sigivald ::: (view all by) ::: September 24, 2003, 06:43 PM:

Technopeasant: regarding #5: zero, roughly.

Regarding #8, where does "the UN" list DU as a "weapon of mass destruction"? (And when did the UN start defining the term, rather than treaties? And why can't I find "Depeleted Uranium" on the UN WMD page?)

Why doesn't the WHO (doubtless Bush toadies?) think DU is So Horribly Dangerous? Why doesn't any scientific or medical body think it's so dangerous as you say?

(Physics summary here.)

I submit that the reason is that the actual science doesn't agree with your implications and statements about the dangers of depleted uranium.

Is your ignorance about the radiological physics of depleted uranium wilfull or simply accidental and convenient to you? (As for chemical dangers, well, it's no worse than the lead in normal bullets. I guess we need a trust fund for lead poisoning before undertaking wars, right?)

(Lastly, regarding 7, are you sure EvilHalliburton was contracted to provide water? And, er, there's no shortage of water for the troops. There were complaints about a lack of bottled water... the copious water from the ROWPUs is evidently not quite as tasty as Evian, even though it's good, drinkable water. But, well, hey. Any excuse to blast Halliburton, right? Just 'cause their stock is down, what, 50% since 2000? )

Sorry (sort of) for the rant, but if there's one thing I can't stand it's blathering on about DU that ignores, well, the actual state of the science (physics and medicine) involved.