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February 6, 2005

Open thread 11. Because it’s been, like, two months since the last one. [06:55 PM]
Welcome to Electrolite's comments section.
Hard-Hitting Moderator: Teresa Nielsen Hayden.

Comments on Open thread 11.:

Michael ::: (view all by) ::: February 06, 2005, 07:16 PM:

Frist psot!

(Sorry, I've just never had the opportunity...)

David Goldfarb ::: (view all by) ::: February 06, 2005, 08:07 PM:

Cednos ostp!

Soli ::: (view all by) ::: February 06, 2005, 08:09 PM:

So what do we discuss THIS time?

Michael Weholt ::: (view all by) ::: February 06, 2005, 08:30 PM:

Well, the Spectacular Halftime Show Featuring Sir Paul McCartney Sponsored By Some Product I Can't Remember At The Moment makes me wonder what a Super Bowl halftime show with John Lennon might have been like. Hmm. Can't imagine Fox asking him to do it. Things move on, though, and while I can't imagine a John Lennon halftime show, I suppose it's possible. I would've tuned in for it. Damn. So many December 8ths ago...

Larry Brennan ::: (view all by) ::: February 06, 2005, 08:45 PM:

I wonder if the tasty iPod shuffle comes packed with a side of "Silica Gel Do Not Eat" (as the packets always seem to say).

Fred Boness ::: (view all by) ::: February 06, 2005, 08:45 PM:

"Can't imagine" is the anti Lennon.

julia ::: (view all by) ::: February 06, 2005, 09:32 PM:

Poor (Sir) Paul. I think he's been rewarded for entirely the wrong things (I always had the impression ithat he did much better work when he was nudged away from facility) but he's the too-often-baked ruins of any amazing talent.

CHip ::: (view all by) ::: February 06, 2005, 10:04 PM:

The piece on mining 311 is fascinating; I'd love to see what would be found about noise complaints in this area, given the inability of the local civic association (when I went to meetings) to distinguish between a restaurant that wanted to serve wine and a show-a-straight-razor-and-puke-blood-to-get-in bar. But it would have been nice if they'd had some sense of history; e.g., possibly the first instance of such mining being John Snow's 1854 discover of a pattern in cholera cases, such that shutting down one infected well stopped an outbreak. (Thanks to Wikipedia for date & name; I'd remembered only the rough description.) I hope 311 manages to keep an adequate signal-to-noise ratio.

Larry Brennan ::: (view all by) ::: February 06, 2005, 10:04 PM:

I think Sir Paul was selected because of the low likelihood of a wardrobe malfunction.

High-risk for Fox, 'cause if there was one, well, they'd have been paying for a lot of therapy.

Patrick Nielsen Hayden ::: (view all by) ::: February 06, 2005, 10:11 PM:

Oh god. Lennon-romanticising and McCartney-bashing. Give me strength.

My own conclusion, based on listening to the music of the Beatles for 37 years, is that roughly 50% of the raw talent in that ensemble was Paul's. I note also that even now, people tend to misattribute many of the Fabs' more brilliantly edgy songs to John Lennon, and similarly misattribute many of the more dispensable confections to Paul. The reality was far more complicated.

Macca has become a kind of public institution, an all-round entertainer and keeper of the memories of millions. There are worse fates. Speaking as a musician, if I ever write anything a tenth as good as "Paperback Writer," or "Got To Get You Into My Life," or play anything as brilliant as the bass line on "Baby You're a Rich Man," or organize and arrange something so transcendent as the second side of Abbey Road, I'll figure I've earned the right to an old age of being a genial entertainer.

And if, in my dotage, I can belt out a cover anywhere near as good as his 1999 re-do of the Vipers' 1958 record "No Other Baby", I'll figure I'm way, way ahead of the game.

Ray Ciscon ::: (view all by) ::: February 06, 2005, 10:26 PM:

First off, I agree with Patrick 150% on the Lennon/McCartney "talent" question!

As far as something to discuss, 'Cicero' at the Winds of Change blog has some very interesting questions for anti-war progressives: www.windsofchange.net/archives/006268.php

Here are Cicero's questions:

Liberals are or should be aligned with progressive politics and values. So in light of political progressives who eschew President Bush's war against Saddam, a few questions:

* What would have been the best, most legitimate way for Iraq to achieve democratic elections? Can it be applied to Burma, North Korea, Iran, and other dictatorships?

* If your answer to this question involves the UN, address the UN's corruption with the Oil-for-Food scandal, sex slaves in the Congo, and the inability to prevent the Rwandan genocide. If the top dogs of the UN are profiteers for the containment of dictators like Saddam, and their representatives trafficking sex in the countries they purport to peace-keep, how can the UN be a legitimate force for democracy?

* Are tyrants defeated with soft power, or merely contained until they fade away? Is contained fascism simply the unstated and accepted cost of soft power? If it is, should Hitler have been opposed?

* What can corrupt soft power?

* Are there any circumstances where hard power is warranted?

* If the UN is too corrupt and impotent, and the US is too sovereign to represent the world, what organization would you propose instead?

* Would a 'UN-D' -- a variation or branch of the United Nations, except the members are all democracies -- be a better legitimizing force for democracy than either the United States or the current United Nations?

* If you had to wear a uniform and be put in harm's way, but could choose the flag you fought for, which flag would it be: Your family crest; your town's flag; your state's flag; your country's flag; your religion's flag; the UN, NATO or EU flag; or an NGO flag. Why?

Patrick Nielsen Hayden ::: (view all by) ::: February 06, 2005, 10:29 PM:

Also, "anti-war progressives," have you quit beating your wife? Explain.

Larry Brennan ::: (view all by) ::: February 06, 2005, 11:03 PM:

Well, I was just digging at McCartney's age, not his talent. He could phone things in, but he generally doesn't.

This afternoon, I was having a really excellent (and slightly but not crazlily expensive) burger at a restaurant, when I noticed McCartney chatting it up with the Fox commentators during the pregame. I commented on it to my server - I think he was all of 19 - and he said something to the effect that I had to remember the whole Beatles thing first-hand. I felt compelled to tell him that I was knee-high to a tadpole when they were at their peak, and that while I really enjoy their music, it's not what's on my iPod. :-o

I'll chalk it up to the fact that when you're 19, almost anybody over 30 looks ancient, and that he may have been fuzzy on his timelines.

Yes, that's what I'll do.

Michael Weholt ::: (view all by) ::: February 06, 2005, 11:20 PM:

Well, I admire both McCartney and Lennon, I just thought it was weird seeing McCartney up there at a Super Bowl halftime show with all the red, white and blue and the close-up on the Statute of Liberty's image and all that. I like the Statute of Liberty as well, but it was still weird. And however many thousands of fans going Na-Na, NaNaNaNaaaa. I also like that song, in a sing-along sort of way. It's just weird seeing a stadium full of people with huge red, white, and blue cheering section signs saying Na-Na on them. On Fox. What are we na-naing here? Social Security? I wondered briefly what we would see when all the NaNa signs got flipped over. "America, Eff Yah?" I don't get it. But it's my own fault, I suppose. This is what I get for watching the thing. And I'd still like to see a John Lennon Super Bowl halftime show. That would be weird. Presumably. But like I said, things move on. Hell, for all I know, if he had lived he would have put up money for the Swift Boat ads. That would have made me stop and think about Chuh-Chuh-Chuh-Changes as much as -- probably more than -- seeing Sir Paul up there.

Kip W ::: (view all by) ::: February 06, 2005, 11:34 PM:

I have a question. Has anybody besides Ahmed "Unbiased" Chalabi (and the dog who ate his hard drive) seen any evidence of the supposed UN corruption?

I was pleased to hear that Sir Paul announced there would be no wardrobe malfunction, as he was going to perform in the nude. Pity I missed it.

John Lennon's PLAYBOY interview got fairly specific on who wrote what. I used it to annotate my sheet music with little initials. Sometimes my favorite McCartney song is "Honey Pie." I think he'd have done all right as a songwriter in several other decades than the one he thrived in.

Ray Radlein ::: (view all by) ::: February 07, 2005, 12:09 AM:

I was impressed by the audience cue cards that turned the top half of one side of the stadium into one giant banner saying "N A"

Not "Na na na nana nana" on one side and "Hey Jude" on the other side of the stadium; just plain old "NA." It struck me as pretty bizarre, really, making the effect similar to a giant "M U."

Alex R ::: (view all by) ::: February 07, 2005, 12:39 AM:

As a Brooklyn-based blogger (IIRC), where do you stand on the proposed Williamsburg Space Elevator?

Bill Humphries ::: (view all by) ::: February 07, 2005, 01:57 AM:

I was disappointed by the crop of ads this time. Aside from the mortgage and registrar ads, everyone was timid.

Larry Brennan ::: (view all by) ::: February 07, 2005, 02:17 AM:

Alex - I'm down with the space elevator if it has a free transfer to the J train at Marcy Ave. (Preferably cross-platform.)

Lois Fundis ::: (view all by) ::: February 07, 2005, 03:08 AM:

Enjoyed the halftime (and some of the commercials) more than the game.

Missed Sir Paul duetting with Terry Bradshaw as he did a couple of years ago, though.

Yes, both are probably at least in part because I'm a Steelers fan.

But I am old enough "to remember the whole Beatles thing first-hand." Or, to put it another way, I've had a crush on Paul for 41 years now. (I was 13 when they first came to the U.S.) It's not as hot as it used to be but it's still there, especially when I get to see him play. At almost 63 (b. June 18, 1942) he can still rock, and note that the songs he picks to sing in person are often rockers. No one does Little Richard as well as Paul does, sometimes, I think, not even Little Richard himself.

Recommended listening: _Run Devil Run_, the oldies LP from which the Vipers' cut Patrick cited comes. There's lots more good stuff there, too.

Yeah, I miss John too. But I think that in the future -- which may even be now -- most of the Beatles songs people remember best will be Paul's rather than John's. Along with several of George's.

Ray Radlein ::: (view all by) ::: February 07, 2005, 04:10 AM:
I was disappointed by the crop of ads this time.

I dunno... a dancing bear kicking Burt Reynolds in the groin? Now that's comedy gold.

Bill Higgins-- Beam Jockey ::: (view all by) ::: February 07, 2005, 04:50 AM:

I flipped channels and happened upon Sir Paul, staying to watch the rest of his set.

Most fascinating to me was a new piece of spectacle technology-- the band performed on a cross-shaped platform that was both a floor and a giant color video display.

During "Live and Let Die" it displayed a garish photomontage, to go with the exploding fireworks. (Better keep that blimp clear of the stadium!)

But during "Hey Jude," rings of green light began to ripple out from the piano in the center, and eventually became a host of percolating green bubbles. I loved it. If only Lawrence Welk had lived to see this.

Eventually, any of us will be able to have floors, walls, and ceiling swimming with color and light. Probably a Moore's Law thing. Can't wait.

(And the whole rig was portable-- set up and tore down in a jiffy, since they still needed to play half a football game in that space. Remarkable.)

Bill Higgins-- Beam Jockey ::: (view all by) ::: February 07, 2005, 04:52 AM:

It's a bit surprising to see how many of PNH's North American correspondents are posting in the wee hours. I haven't noticed this before. Me, I took a lengthy afternoon nap and now I can't sleep.

Patrick Nielsen Hayden ::: (view all by) ::: February 07, 2005, 07:36 AM:

"As a Brooklyn-based blogger (IIRC), where do you stand on the proposed Williamsburg Space Elevator?"

Williamsburg doesn't need a space elevator; it has perfectly good transit connections already. It should be built instead in Red Hook.

Charles Dodgson ::: (view all by) ::: February 07, 2005, 08:19 AM:

Bill, are you sure that the effects on the ramps were visible to the people in the stadium? Sports TV broadcasts have been "enhanced reality" for a few years now. So there's no way for me, as a home viewer, to tell if the effects on the ramps are any more visible to the people in the stadium than the "first down" yellow stripe on the field. (Or, for that matter, the stadium billboard ads in a playoff baseball game...)

mayakda ::: (view all by) ::: February 07, 2005, 08:34 AM:

random loserly thoughts:
It's amazing how light traffic is this morning, in the Philly 'burbs.
I have accepted that in this dimension, I will be forever rooting for the losers. *sigh*
All the flag-waving at the beginning of the Superbowl was a bit creepy. Or maybe it's just Mr Zeta Jones that's creepy.
Anyone hazard a guess as to what Bush Sr said to Clinton at the beginning of the game? (My hubby's guess was "I gotta pee")

JamesG ::: (view all by) ::: February 07, 2005, 08:43 AM:

I agree, the crop of ads could have used a little more umph. There were several I liked(The Godaddy one stands out, almost as much as the talking bear kicking the Bandit in the boys), but most of them were... unremarkable.

Watching Terry and Sir Paul sing again was pretty darn funny.

Did anyone else see the skit they did earlier in the day where they made James into an A-hole, Terry into a genius, Howie into an overly sensitive crybaby, and Jimmy telling the world, he didn't understand how football works?

That was some pretty funny stuff.

Dave Luckett ::: (view all by) ::: February 07, 2005, 09:10 AM:

OK well. See, the problem is that I'm prepared to believe that the questions are worth answering. Maybe that's naive. We'll see.

Q1:* What would have been the best, most legitimate way for Iraq to achieve democratic elections? Can it be applied to Burma, North Korea, Iran, and other dictatorships?

A - Clearly, the best method, and the only thoroughly legitimate one, would be for the the Iraqis to demand free elections, and to hurl from office any regime that refused to provide them. It can happen. Poles did. Roumanians did. Ukrainians did. East Germans did. Even Taiwanese did, somewhat. So it can be applied elsewhere.

Q2. (My answer doesn't involve the UN, and I have as little regard for the efficacy of that well-intentioned talk shop as anyone, anywhere.)

Q3 Are tyrants defeated with soft power, or merely contained until they fade away? Is contained fascism simply the unstated and accepted cost of soft power? If it is, should Hitler have been opposed?

A - Tyrants have been defeated by populist sentiment, by sudden civil insurrection, by being ignored, by endless, patient sedition, by education, by a generation of martyrs, by domestic coup, by foreign intervention through military force, and in many other ways, and (usually) by a combination of all of them. Any and all of these might result in nothing more than the replacement of one tyrant by another, after an interval. I have no idea which of these, if any, you would characterise as "soft power".

And yes, Hitler should have been opposed, a course that the US had forced on it, when he declared war on them.

Q4 What can corrupt soft power?

I have no idea what this question means, except to observe that it stands Burke's aphorism on its head.

Q5 Are there any circumstances where hard power is warranted?

If by hard power you mean military force, yes, there are such circumstances.

Q6 If the UN is too corrupt and impotent, and the US is too sovereign to represent the world, what organization would you propose instead?

The US doesn't represent the world because it has no legitimate claim to do so, not because it's "too sovereign". ("Sovereign" is one of those words without degree, like "pregnant".) The UN has such a claim, for what that's worth, which is not much. Therefore, I propose no organisation at all. There isn't one. This throws us back on ad hockery. Sad, but true.

Q7 Would a 'UN-D' -- a variation or branch of the United Nations, except the members are all democracies -- be a better legitimizing force for democracy than either the United States or the current United Nations?

A. No.

Q8. If you had to wear a uniform and be put in harm's way, but could choose the flag you fought for, which flag would it be: Your family crest; your town's flag; your state's flag; your country's flag; your religion's flag; the UN, NATO or EU flag; or an NGO flag. Why?

A - Whichever one of them, if any, my conscience would approve under the circumstances. Do you really suppose there is some other answer?

mayakda ::: (view all by) ::: February 07, 2005, 09:17 AM:

A - Clearly, the best method, and the only thoroughly legitimate one, would be for the the Iraqis to demand free elections, and to hurl from office any regime that refused to provide them. It can happen. Poles did. Roumanians did. Ukrainians did. East Germans did. Even Taiwanese did, somewhat. So it can be applied elsewhere.

ITA! And don't forget the Philippines! *grin*
Or India, for that matter, though that was a colonial govt instead of a dictator.

Lis Riba ::: (view all by) ::: February 07, 2005, 09:48 AM:

For a more fannish topic, the OED is seeking pre-1950 citations of the term fugghead (see this request over on rasff), if anybody has old fanzines or writings of Francis Towner Laney.

Hopefully I'm not the only one here who thinks the OED's SF citation project to be really really cool. And it's already garnering results, as the online version has draft definitions for fannish terms like Sturgeon's Law, filk (noun & verb), fanfic, slash...

Jonathan Vos Post ::: (view all by) ::: February 07, 2005, 11:55 AM:

Patrick:

I am a big Lennon fan, but have fingers crossed for the big "When I'm 64" world tour by Sir Paul in 2 years. IMHO, John is underrated as a singer, and Paul is underrated as a composer/instrumentalist. But Paul is a 2nd generation musical professional, so he learned earlier how to become (as Lennon put it) "Elvis Beatle" onstage. CDs and MP3s don't give justice to how good Paul's voice is, due to overtones that only musicians, dogs, bats, and dolphins can hear. Good Fender bass lines, to be sure. What do you think of, say, Paul's Liverpool Concerto, or whatever that's called? Also, is there to be a monorail from the Williamsburg Bank Building to the Space Elevator, or do we have to use the dirigible mooring tower and take the airship shuttle from the Chrysler building?

Dave Luckett:

Soft Power corrupts. Absolute Soft Power corrupts absosoftly (softilutely?).

chris bond ::: (view all by) ::: February 07, 2005, 12:25 PM:

I am forever flabbergasted by those who think we can remove Saddam Hussein and replace him with a morally-neutral inoffensive grey-colored nothing. Judging the removal of Saddam on only his actions is moronic; the cost of removal and what/who replaces him never seems to enter these minds at all.

Early last century there was a Russian tyrant that was removed; there were even elections afterwards. Was this a good thing?

Patrick Nielsen Hayden ::: (view all by) ::: February 07, 2005, 01:57 PM:

"Good Fender bass lines, to be sure."

Actually, while McCartney has played plenty of Fender basses, the instrument he's most identified with is the violin-shaped Hofner.

What's impressive about McCartney as an instrumentalist is his facility on all the band's basic instruments, which is why he gradually became in essence their co-arranger and orchestrator, along with George Martin. Other personal issues aside, it's pretty obvious this eventually became a source of friction with the other band members, who appear to have all had their moments of being richly tired of Paul telling them how to play the part currently to hand. The fact that he was usually right probably didn't make it any less irritating.

PinkDreamPoppies ::: (view all by) ::: February 07, 2005, 02:23 PM:

I've thought for awhile now that John was an indie-type musician who lucked out by ending up with a band who did a lot to curb his experimentalist bent. If he had been on his own, he would have ended up recording, say, two hours of static and screeching and backward tape loops. He would also have released albums with tracks of unmitigated brilliance, but I suspect that they would have been lost in the static.

Paul, though, I don't think would have evolved much past his early work with the Beatles without someone(s) to grapple with and to push him to be better than "Elvis Beatle." He's an extremely talented musician who has written some brilliant songs, but from all of the accounts and interviews I've read, it doesn't seem that something like "Hey Jude" would ever have been written if he had not been playing with and off of the other Beatles and George Martin.

On a related topic, as much as a John Lennon halftime show might have been interesting, I'm willing to sacrifice that in exchange for never ever having to see the pathetic spectacle of "The Beatles Reunion Tour." There's something about the thought of the Beatles, aged and wrecked, banging through their hits in some made-for-TV spectacle. Paul, I think, would be his usual charismatic self; Ringo, workmanlike; John and George, though, I don't think would have looked like they were enjoying themselves too much.

Michael Weholt ::: (view all by) ::: February 07, 2005, 02:52 PM:

There's something about the thought of the Beatles, aged and wrecked, banging through their hits in some made-for-TV spectacle.

I dunno. Among musicians we might expect to appear and behave "aged and wrecked", I'd say Eric Clapton would have a legitimate claim, the trouble he's seen, etc. And yet when I watched his Crossroads Guitar Festival special, he looked more alive than a lot of 20-somethings I see in my neighborhood everyday. This guy was hot as hell. Wished I could buy him a beer.

Patrick Nielsen Hayden ::: (view all by) ::: February 07, 2005, 03:14 PM:

With all due respect to PinkDreamPoppies, I think some of this speculation is based more in latter-day legendmaking than in biographical reality. It's undeniable that both McCartney and Lennon did their best work with one another, or at least when they were writing for one another. But up until Lennon's connection with Yoko Ono, the band member who persistently displayed the liveliest interest in experimentalism and the avant-garde was Paul. Keep in mind that while the other three all settled down in big suburban mansions as soon as they were millionaires, it was McCartney who moved into central London and immersed himself in the hipster nightlife of the mid-1960s. They were all bright guys and all receptive to interesting new things, but Revolver and Sgt Peppers didn't happen because John Lennon was zoning out on drugs in Kenwood, they happened because Paul was spending his nights at Stockhausen concerts and gallery openings and poetry happenings.

An excellent book about all of this is Barry Miles' copiously-researched McCartney biography Many Years from Now, which unlike most other Beatles books thoroughly embeds the band's history in the context of the pop-culture and London art-world scenes of the time.

Donald Johnson ::: (view all by) ::: February 07, 2005, 03:26 PM:

I thought the Cicero questions were good ones, even if the originator asked them in bad faith (which I don't know one way or the other). I liked the answers Dave Luckett gave, for the most part. I think a fair number of people believe or pretend to believe that only military force can ever topple tyrants--what many people mean by The Lessons of History is that Chamberlain carried an umbrella someplace and was too nice to Hitler, and we'd better never do that again. But there are other tyrants and other examples to look at and one might learn something from history besides The Dangers of Being a Wuss and Appeasing Tyrants.

Anyway, considering that Iran might be next on the list of countries our fearless conquering hero of a President might want to liberate, it might be a useful exercise to practice thrashing out answers to those questions. There's even a slight chance more people would listen this time.

Ulrika ::: (view all by) ::: February 07, 2005, 05:02 PM:

I don't claim much in the way of Beatles biographical knowledge, but the story I heard of how "Hey, Jude" was written is that it came to Paul spontaneously as he was trying to find some way to cheer Julian Lennon up when John was taking up with Yoko. Originally, it was "Hey, Jules," or so the story goes. On that basis, inarguably it would not have been written had Paul and John not been in a band together, but whether John's musical influence was key is less clear.

I do find it striking how much music I like is born of pain, though. "Layla" and all of Rumors come to mind, as well.

PinkDreamPoppies ::: (view all by) ::: February 07, 2005, 05:11 PM:

Perhaps it's extreme to say that Paul wouldn't have ever evolved past the happy-clappy pop confections of the early Beatles, but I don't think you can honestly say that John was not the more daringly experimental of the two and that he was the first of the Beatles to begin to experiment.

Paul may have immersed himself in the London scene, but John seemed to have taken the experimentalism further than Paul. While Paul wrote "Magical Mystery Tour," John wrote "I Am the Walrus." While Paul wrote "Yellow Submarine," John wrote "Tomorrow Never Knows."

It seems to me that when people say that Paul authored some of the Beatles' weirder songs, this is a reflection on subject matter more than on composition or sonic experimentation. "Yellow Submarine" or "Why Don't We Do It in the Road?" have strange lyrics, but they aren't sonically experimental in the way that "Strawberry Fields" or "Happiness Is a Warm Gun" are.

On "Revolver," the songs that stand out as being the most progressive are John's compositions (particularly "Norwegian Wood") and this is pattern that continues. Whatever experimental direction the band went in, John seems to have done it first. This isn't perfectly true in all cases, but it's also not accurate to suggest that John was laying about strung out on drugs while Paul did all the hard work and came up with all of the good ideas.

Greg van Eekhout ::: (view all by) ::: February 07, 2005, 06:10 PM:

"Strawberry Fields" is certainly an interesting piece of sonic experimentation, but not necessarily in ways that John approved of. From the 1981 Playboy interveiw with Lennon:


The Beatles didn't make a good record of "Across the Universe." I think subconsciously we -- I thought Paul subconsciously tried to destroy my great songs. We would play experimental games with my great pieces, like "Strawberry Fields," which I always felt was badly recorded. It worked, but it wasn't what it could have been. I allowed it, though. We would spend hours doing little, detailed cleaning up on Paul's songs, but when it came to mine -- especially a great song like "Strawberry Fields" or "Across the Universe" -- somehow an atmosphere of looseness and experimentation would come up.

Not at all to minimize Lennon's contributions to the complicated amalgamation of genius that was the Beatles.

Patrick Nielsen Hayden ::: (view all by) ::: February 07, 2005, 06:43 PM:

I think you mean the 1971 Playboy interview, Greg.

As for:

"It's also not accurate to suggest that John was laying about strung out on drugs while Paul did all the hard work and came up with all of the good ideas"

--I really shouldn't have to point out that this isn't what I said. In another continuum I'd be happy to argue about who wrote what and what constitutes "sonic experimentation," but in this one I think I'm losing interest.

PinkDreamPoppies ::: (view all by) ::: February 07, 2005, 07:36 PM:

That isn't at all what you wrote, and I apologize for mischaracterizing your statement.

PinkDreamPoppies ::: (view all by) ::: February 07, 2005, 07:44 PM:

It really isn't a good idea, I don't think, to read a comment on a blog while trying to get information about a computer from a seventh grader. Patrick's perfectly reasonable comment became something like this:

"With all due respect to PinkDreamPoppies, I think some of this speculation is based more in latter-day legendmaking than in biographical reality. [Mr. Teter--- Mr. Teter--- I, um, I, um, I need some help with, um, with] Up until Lennon's connection with Yoko Ono, the band member who persistently displayed the liveliest interest in experimentalism and the avant-garde was Paul. Keep in mind that while the other three all settled down in big suburban mansions as soon as they were millionaires, it was McCartney who moved into central London and immersed himself in the hipster nightlife of the mid-1960s. [And the screen it's like--the screen it's like black and stuff and--It's broken.] Revolver and Sgt Peppers didn't happen because John Lennon was zoning out on drugs in Kenwood, they happened because Paul was spending his nights at Stockhausen concerts and gallery openings and poetry happenings.

"An excellent book about all of this is Barry Miles' copiously-researched McCartney biography Many Years from Now, which unlike most other Beatles books thoroughly embeds the band's history in the context of the pop-culture and London art-world scenes of the time."

Holy crap. I thought that Patrick was being a bit short and it turns out that I'm a total ass. Mea culpa. Mea big culpa.

Robert L ::: (view all by) ::: February 07, 2005, 08:32 PM:

Well, post-breakup, a John Lennon halftime show would almost certainly have been a John and Yoko halftime show. Somehow I would enjoy hearing a 15-minute version of "Don't Worry, Kyoko" with tons of feedback in the midst of the Superbowl.

With all due respect to all, I get tired or the "Lennon or McCartney" controversy. I mean, you don't hear Stones fans arguing the merits of Jagger vs. Richards as the real talent, do you? I don't know many serious Beatles fans who buy into it. For every instance of, say, Paul's "Yesterday" to John's "Yer Blues," one can come up with another pair, say Paul's "Helter Skelter" vs. John's "Imagine," that posits Paul as the hard rocker and John as the balladeer.

JamesG ::: (view all by) ::: February 07, 2005, 09:00 PM:

But the burning question is which of the brothers in Right Said Fred was the most talented. Did you know they are rumored to have a new album coming out?

Lenny Bailes ::: (view all by) ::: February 07, 2005, 11:20 PM:

I wanted, early this morning, to put my two cents in over whether it's undeniable that both McCartney and Lennon did their best work with one another.

Mileage varies, and I think it's partly a matter of temperament and taste. You wouldn't get an argument from me, if you're talking about songs that work like a perfectly-designed swiss watch both lyrically and musically.

But I'm partial to several songs from _Imagine_ (plus "Instant Karma," and "Power to the People") as some of the Lennon I love and remember best. I like the "real world" grit and soul in them.

When it comes to McCartney without Lennon, I like some of the stuff that veers toward Ray Davies territory, like "SingAlong Junk" (+ "Band on the Run" for its subliminal stfnal imagery). But solo Lennon sticks to my mental ribs a lot more than solo McCartney.

Tim Walters ::: (view all by) ::: February 07, 2005, 11:29 PM:

"Fender bass" is an old-fashioned way of saying "electric bass guitar" regardless of brand, much as we still say "saxophone" or "Chapman stick" or "ondes Martenot"--but more confusing, which is no doubt why it died out. So you're both right.

As late as the Eighties, I remember reading an article for bass players explaining that no, the arranger didn't care what brand you played. So it must have lingered on in pit and studio terminology longer than in popular parlance.

Tonya Liburd ::: (view all by) ::: February 08, 2005, 12:27 AM:

I grew up outside the US (outside North America, for that matter), and the commonly held sentiment is that the US, for the most part, has a hand in the UN like a puppeteer in a sock puppet. Maybe this one time the US couldn't get the UN to bend to its desires and figured it'll veto the UN altogether, (or the power dynamics are changing in a way we can't see outside?) but most people I know will chirp when asked how to fix the UN is to first get rid of that primary influence, then others...

Not anti-American here, mind you... (although I *am* Canadian...hm...)

Ray Radlein ::: (view all by) ::: February 08, 2005, 01:38 AM:
I think you mean the 1971 Playboy interview, Greg.

Actually, he does mean the 1981 interview with John Lennon, which was in the January issue of Playboy — meaning it was on the newsstands at the time that Lennon was shot (I have heard reports that Mark Chapman bought that issue shortly before shooting Lennon).

Curiously, the issue also featured a nude pictorial of Barbara Bach, who married Ringo Starr a couple of months later.

The issue also contained one of my favorite Ray Bradbury short stories, "Heart Transplant," and the first installment of Frank Herbert's God-Emperor of Dune.

Epacris ::: (view all by) ::: February 08, 2005, 05:56 AM:

CHip: Doctor John Snow is one of my heroes, so the name is familiar, but I'd forgotten the date until we celebrated the 150th Anniversary in September last year.

It was the Broad Street pump, so that's almost like Broadway ...

Magenta Griffith ::: (view all by) ::: February 08, 2005, 02:18 PM:

I saw this:

http://www.snopes.com/photos/animals/yarmouth.asp

and immediately asked myself, wasn't Yarmouth one of the towns mentioned by H.P.Lovecraft?

Xopher (Christopher Hatton) ::: (view all by) ::: February 08, 2005, 03:59 PM:

With all due respect to PinkDreamPoppies

Only context saves this from spit-take LOL type funnyness. Stuff. You know.

Madeleine Robins ::: (view all by) ::: February 08, 2005, 07:38 PM:

A few years ago, when George Martin was doing his lecture series, we went. We had to go, as Danny is one of the Eminences Gris of rec.music. beatles. It was a delightful evening--Martin's a great speaker with apparently complete recall of his work with the Beatles. One of the bits I gleaned from it (aside from a great sense that George Martin was indeed the fifth Beatle, that he is an insufficiently sung hero of the rock revolution, and that John was likely his personal favorite among the bunch) was that Lennon never met a song he didn't want to play more slowly. One of McCartney's many roles in the band was to speed things up from dirge tempo to something more like pop. The other bit was that Paul could be facile, but he was also very critical of himself and his own work, where John was not always so.

Being on the wrong coast, we completely forgot about the Superbowl until after the whole thing was over. We did see a few clips of Macca's performance later. Younger Child (the same one who some years ago named her feet after Patrick and Teresa) was watching, and was much disturbed: "Daddy, Paul McCartney is getting OLD!"

Well, yes dear. So are Mom and Dad. Cope.

PinkDreamPoppies ::: (view all by) ::: February 08, 2005, 11:50 PM:

"With all due respect to PinkDreamPoppies

"Only context saves this from spit-take LOL type funnyness. Stuff. You know."

It is pretty funny that someone's saying something so formal and respectful with a patentedly absurd name in it. I hope I'm not missing something...

John M. Ford ::: (view all by) ::: February 09, 2005, 03:21 AM:

A few years back, George Martin did a three-part series called "Rhythm of Life," in which he gets together with various musicians (the mind reels at the idea of the man's Rolodex) to talk about what makes music "work;" there are three episodes, devoted to Rhythm, Melody, and Harmony. McCartney's there, of course (and says, only semi-humorously, that he hopes Martin doesn't discover a mechanical explanation of how to produce great melodies); so are Billy Joel, Brian Wilson, and Georg Solti. It runs periodically on the Ovation cable arts network, and is well worth catching.

Michael Weholt ::: (view all by) ::: February 09, 2005, 08:48 AM:

Hoo-boy, this whole Jeff Gannon thing has turned into another astonishing fiasco. Somebody ought to write a Handbook for Right-wingers Who Choose to Maintain Secretly Gay Lifestyles.

I see this morning that this "voice of the new media" has decided (for family reasons) to retire from public life.

I guess what these guys forget is that this country has years of experience in sticking its nose into the private sexual lives of people. This skill was largely developed with the encouragement of those who these guys consider their friends. I don't get it.

Right-Wing Dude, if you want to get it on with one of your own sex, go for it. It's OK by us. It's your "friends" who think you are the reprobate. It's your "friends" who require you to be a hypocrite.

Get it?

Jeff Smith ::: (view all by) ::: February 09, 2005, 10:46 AM:

Self-described "naturally gifted" (yet somehow unpublished) horror/sf writer outed and ousted for spreading rumors about Democratic politician on Republican web site:

news story:
http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/articles/A9313-2005Feb8.html?sub=AR

profile of Joseph Steffan:
http://www.baltimoresun.com/news/local/politics/bal-te.md.bio09feb09,1,737243.story?coll=bal-home-headlines

Jonathan Vos Post ::: (view all by) ::: February 09, 2005, 11:33 AM:

John M. Ford:

"McCartney's there, of course (and says, only semi-humorously, that he hopes Martin doesn't discover a mechanical explanation of how to produce great melodies.)"

Wasn't that in a short story "The Ultimate Melody" by Arthur C. Clarke, in "Tales from the White Hart [1957]?" After all, that anthology also had the "Fenton Silencer" -- an early explanation of noise cancellation.

Tales from the White Hart "inside the book" pseudo-Edisoniad style.

Presumably Clarke is a Lennon fan; goes with the shortlist for Nobel Peace Prize territory.

Claude Muncey ::: (view all by) ::: February 09, 2005, 12:38 PM:

You know Patrick, it may just be me, but when I think of bikers in club colors running amok in the streets I tend to think of Harleys. The jousting looks cool, though, and one does wonder where you ride a pulse-jet powered bike.

Brooklyn really is different . . .

Xopher (Christopher Hatton) ::: (view all by) ::: February 09, 2005, 03:31 PM:

It is pretty funny that someone's saying something so formal and respectful with a patently absurd name in it. I hope I'm not missing something...

No, that's all I meant.

James D. Macdonald ::: (view all by) ::: February 09, 2005, 03:52 PM:
U.S. Secretary of State Condoleezza Rice said today that Iran must live up to its international obligations to halt its nuclear program or the next steps are in the offing. "And I think everybody understands what the 'next steps' mean," Rice told reporters after a meeting with NATO foreign ministers and European Union officials. In his state of the union address, President Bush singled out Iran as "the world's primary state sponsor of terror -- pursuing nuclear weapons."

So ... the invasion of Iran is on, scheduled for March or April '06, to have it over and free elections held there by fall of '08, in time for Jeb's triumphant electorial victory.

It only makes sense, to allow US forces in Iraq and Afghanistan to link up.

You read it here first.

mayakda ::: (view all by) ::: February 09, 2005, 03:59 PM:

"And I think everybody understands what the 'next steps' mean," Rice told reporters

Did she really say that? Sounds like it came straight out of a Mario Puzo novel. *rolls eyes*

Alex Cohen ::: (view all by) ::: February 09, 2005, 04:39 PM:

Jeb's triumphant electorial victory.

I sometimes think that, in two thousand years, at least seven languages will use some variant of "Bush" to mean emperor.

Considering some of those potential variants is an amusing exercise. Hail Butt!

John M. Ford ::: (view all by) ::: February 09, 2005, 05:51 PM:

Jim, no disrespect, but I read it from Sy Hersh several weeks ago. Dates weren't included, so you have that point.

I am interested as to the wellsprings of manpower for Operation Holy Shitheads; LA street gangs? Unemployed dot-commers? Hammer's Slammers?

James D. Macdonald ::: (view all by) ::: February 09, 2005, 09:11 PM:
I am interested as to the wellsprings of manpower for Operation Holy Shitheads; LA street gangs? Unemployed dot-commers? Hammer's Slammers?

Can you say D-R-A-F-T? I knew you could!

John M. Ford ::: (view all by) ::: February 09, 2005, 10:10 PM:

No, Jim, that would be the obvious solution. The vast and subtle intellects at work here (Clement VII comes particularly to mind) obviously have a half-vast and subtle-ish plan.

And on related topic, Jango Fett hasn't been posting lately. Anybody know where he is?

Dave Luckett ::: (view all by) ::: February 09, 2005, 10:30 PM:

Since it is an open thread, and it was a link, may I remark that "The Expressionist Dream-life of Kermit the Frog" is the weirdest and one of the most subtly disturbing things I have ever seen?

True, I do not go out of my way to find the weird and the disturbing. Maybe I should get out more.

Michael Weholt ::: (view all by) ::: February 09, 2005, 10:51 PM:

...may I remark that "The Expressionist Dream-life of Kermit the Frog" is the weirdest and one of the most subtly disturbing things I have ever seen?

Oh, my god. Thank you for flagging that. I think it's magnificent. Just gorgeous. It brings me almost to tears.

ajay ::: (view all by) ::: February 10, 2005, 07:09 AM:

Someone must know this one. Short story about a post-revolutionary society. It alternates between a description of how the new order reformed the spectrum (into colours like 'redor', 'angeyel' and 'enblu') and a love story between two characters on opposite sides of the revolution, referred to only as the Artillerist (her) and the Architect (him). Now, I can't remember the name or the author (it sounds like Iain Banks, but isn't; might be Ursula Le Guin). Can anyone help?

Chad Orzel ::: (view all by) ::: February 10, 2005, 08:13 AM:

Someone must know this one. Short story about a post-revolutionary society. It alternates between a description of how the new order reformed the spectrum (into colours like 'redor', 'angeyel' and 'enblu') and a love story between two characters on opposite sides of the revolution, referred to only as the Artillerist (her) and the Architect (him). Now, I can't remember the name or the author (it sounds like Iain Banks, but isn't; might be Ursula Le Guin). Can anyone help?

The author is three comments before yours.
The name of the story is "Chromatic Aberration," and it's in the collection Heat Of Fusion, from Tor no less.

ajay ::: (view all by) ::: February 10, 2005, 09:53 AM:

Gosh, so he is. Mr Orzel: thanks very much for that. Mr Ford: nice work on the story.

Laura Roberts ::: (view all by) ::: February 10, 2005, 10:56 AM:

I am interested as to the wellsprings of manpower for Operation Holy Shitheads; LA street gangs? Unemployed dot-commers? Hammer's Slammers?

    Can you say D-R-A-F-T? I knew you could!

This article asked the very interesting question:

"Why, with [1.4 million soldiers presently in the US military], does having 130,000 troops in Iraq put such a strain on the military that national guardsmen now make up nearly 40% of those in Iraq?

Where are they all?"

Patrick Nielsen Hayden ::: (view all by) ::: February 10, 2005, 01:16 PM:

P. D. Poppies, my apologies in turn for being testy.

John M. Ford ::: (view all by) ::: February 10, 2005, 02:25 PM:

Now, I can't remember the name or the author (it sounds like Iain Banks, but isn't; might be Ursula Le Guin).

That's the nicest thing I've heard all day. And I'm very glad you liked it.

James D. Macdonald ::: (view all by) ::: February 10, 2005, 04:44 PM:

This article asked the very interesting question:

"Why, with [1.4 million soldiers presently in the US military], does having 130,000 troops in Iraq put such a strain on the military that national guardsmen now make up nearly 40% of those in Iraq?

Well, for starters, the US Army currently has less than 700,000 soldiers....

Michael Turyn ::: (view all by) ::: February 10, 2005, 10:47 PM:

"It's from you I would expect to hear the f-word, not from them...."

ajay ::: (view all by) ::: February 11, 2005, 05:39 AM:

"Why, with [1.4 million soldiers presently in the US military], does having 130,000 troops in Iraq put such a strain on the military that national guardsmen now make up nearly 40% of those in Iraq?"

A better way to look at this is in terms of brigades, of which there are 37 in the army. Ten are in Iraq, one in Korea, one in Afghanistan. (Three NG brigades are in Iraq and one in Kosovo, out of 37 potential NG brigades that could be called up, but let's stick to the regular Army). Now that gives 12 out of 37 currently deployed. Another 12 have recently been rotated back to the US and are resting, refitting and training after their operational tours. So that's 24. (all 12 could be called back into operations within four months in an emergency.) You need five more ready in the US to go to South Korea if something happens there. That's 30. Two are currently being reequipped with new armoured vehicles. That's 32. Presumably at least one more is ready to reinforce Iraq if things get even worse. 33. See how it mounts up?
Bottom line; for an invasion of Iran the Army could field at least four brigades (one division) currently free, plus twelve more recalled to service from the US, plus a large number of National Guard brigades (up to 30 in theory, but closer to 25 given the problems there would be with combat readiness and callup). Occupying the damn place, however...

PinkDreamPoppies ::: (view all by) ::: February 11, 2005, 01:53 PM:

"P. D. Poppies, my apologies in turn for being testy."

No problem; I understand.

Nothing ticks me off more than someone deliberately misrepresenting what I've said in the course of a discussion, thus why I'm so chagrined at having done it. Apologies again.

You ever have a week that you'd just like to write off and never remember again?

Laura Roberts ::: (view all by) ::: February 11, 2005, 03:47 PM:

James D. Macdonald said:

Well, for starters, the US Army currently has less than 700,000 soldiers....

Are you talking about the Army as opposed to other branches, or are you saying that the 1.4 million number is just wrong?

I have no idea where "1.4 million" came from, but is there someplace we can go to see reliable statistics?

ajay said:

A better way to look at this is in terms of brigades, of which there are 37 in the army. Ten are in Iraq, one in Korea, one in Afghanistan.

So it sounds like most of the Army is in Iraq . . . what are all the other folks doing?

John M. Ford ::: (view all by) ::: February 11, 2005, 05:49 PM:

The 1.4 million is the total active-duty military personnel, all branches. Someone who can't make this distinction -- indeed, someone who doesn't make the distinction between total personnel and combat troops -- is either not competent to hold such discussions, or, well, something else.

If you're willing to accept the DoD as a source, you can find personnel statistics at:

web1.whs.osd.mil/mmid/mmidhome.htm

(Some of the recent civilian stats don't seem to be available.)

Clark E Myers ::: (view all by) ::: February 11, 2005, 11:15 PM:

See also Where Are The Divisions As of January 4th
for a source with obvious bias but also a strong urge to explain things.

Paula Lieberman ::: (view all by) ::: February 15, 2005, 03:29 AM:

1. Peculiar, the lack of recall on the part of Authorities involved regarding e.g. Sir Pau's arrest in Japan for marijuana, and such, and the lack of attention to the lyrics of some of the songs he sang.

2. The US military runs a bunch of training facilities -- the US Military Academy, the US Naval Academy, the US Air Force Academy, the War College, the Air War College, the Naval Postgraduate School, the Air Force Institute of Technology, pilot training bases, military test pilot schools, etc. which can take from weeks to years to train people at, depending on if they're matriculating at West Point or Annapolis or Colorado Springs, getting a master's or doctorate at one of the graduate/post grad schools, or taking training that takes from a few weeks to a more than a year. The people on training are in the military, and the people doing the training are often in the military. There are also people on active duty who are at teaching ROTC classes, and people who are servicemembers getting graduate degrees at places like MIT in the Ocean Engineering department focusing on naval architecture or in the Aero and Astro department.

There are those Marine guards at US embassies. There are the active duty personnel involved working with whatevern is left of the US National Guard and Reserve forces who haven't been called up for hamburger duty in Iraq etc. on extended active duty.

There are the people who run the bases in the USA and elsewhere--the commanders, the staff, the admin people, and whatever hasn;t been turned over to the likes of Halliburton "outsourced" at higher price and less control. There are the people doing "contract monitoring" and R&D, there are instructor pilots and tank instructors, training other people to operate military machinery, which can taken months to learn what's necessary to learn. Somebody's got test out the stuff in development and production--there 20 or more "development model" F-15s made, before the plane went into actualy production, flown for months and months by military test pilots and watched over by systems program personnel. The Army has helicopter pilots it had to train, and instructor pilots teaching the trainees, etc., and divisiion being equipped with the "new toys" and trying to figure out how to use them in battle and warfare, and then writing it all up and teaching other people what they're learned. There are the people responsible for making sure that training manuals and user manuals that are usable and comprehensible get produced and distributed. Etc.

Ray Ciscon ::: (view all by) ::: February 15, 2005, 10:15 AM:

Anybody have any thoughts on Eason Jordan resignation/removal at CNN?

I have to give major kudos to Rep. Barney Frank of Mass. and Sen. Chris Dodd of CT. for standing up to Mr. Jordan and his incredibly foolish, and ultimately unsubstantiated, anti-US military statements. It didn't hurt that bloggers kept the story alive while the Mainstream Media would have liked to cover for one of their own.

With CNN not releasing the videotape of the Davos conference where the statements were made, it certainly gives it the appearance that it was as bad or worse than we could imagine it. This also looks like it wasn't the first time he's made outrageous statements like this...

After his earlier revelations about kowtowing to the Saddam Hussein regime in order to maintain CNN news coverage in pre-liberation Iraq, I don't think I'll be shedding too many tears for Eason Jordan.

Patrick Nielsen Hayden ::: (view all by) ::: February 15, 2005, 10:24 AM:

"Anybody have any thoughts on Eason Jordan resignation/removal at CNN?"

Fafblog speaks for me:

The past week or so has seen the blogborne destruction of Eason Jordan, Ward Churchill, and Jeff Gannon for a multitude of transgressions ranging from stupidity to shirtlessness. Well done my bloggy minions! Their heads adorn the walls of Castle Internet along with such other enemies of justice as Trent Lott, Dan Rather, and that fat kid who danced around in that Star Wars video.
Supreme High Blogarch Giblets directs you to this week's List of the Damned. Each of the following have commited unpardonable sins, crimes against bloganity! Giblets demands the ashen ruins of their professional and personal lives delivered to him by Friday!
  • Bernard Mantwuse, professor of medieval studies at Brown University who has repeatedly claimed that Muslim hostility towards the West in the thirteenth and fourteenth centuries came about as a result of the crusades. Wrong, "professor"! Muslims hated the West because of freedom - the freedom of the feudal system.
  • Lindsey Michaels, student editorial intern for the Phoenix New Times, yet another example of bias in the SCLCMMSMM*! At a closed-door lunch Michaels was overheard to remark that George Bush was "totally gay," a comment that is either deeply offensive to President Bush or deeply offensive to gays. Giblets chooses both!
  • Ed Gorman, Sr., editor-in-chief of Highlights Magazine, whose tenure has made a mockery of the entire media establishment. Just last week one of the words in the rebus puzzle was a cow plus a banjo minus the letter "M." What the hell is that supposed to mean! It doesn't mean anything! Giblets is furious!
  • *So-Called Lefto-Conservative Main Media Stream Media Media

    Alex Cohen ::: (view all by) ::: February 15, 2005, 12:00 PM:

    Saw this cited in a law paper recently (Jamie Boyle's excellent The Second Enclosure Movement and the Construction of the Public Domain) and thought the Electrolite crowd would enjoy it:

    The law locks up the man or woman
    Who steals the goose from off the common
    But leaves the greater villain loose
    Who steals the common from off the goose.

    The law demands that we atone
    When we take things we do not own
    But leaves the lords and ladies fine
    Who take things that are yours and mine.

    The poor and wretched don’t escape
    If they conspire the law to break;
    This must be so but they endure
    Those who conspire to make the law.

    The law locks up the man or woman
    Who steals the goose from off the common
    And geese will still a common lack
    Till they go and steal it back.

    Anonymous

    The paper contains a lengthy and interesting footnote on the origins of the poem.

    CHip ::: (view all by) ::: February 15, 2005, 06:26 PM:

    Alex -- I never knew there were additional verses. (Sturgeon used the first verse in "The [Widget], the [Wadget], and Boff".) Thanks!

    Jonathan Vos Post ::: (view all by) ::: February 16, 2005, 11:09 AM:

    Encyclopedia of 2010:

    The Tragedy of the Commons:
    see "W."

    CHip:

    "Quand ŕ traduire en francais des termes dont on n'a pas de définition...."

    Mais si, c'est trčs facile. Exemples simples : "smurf "= "schtroumpf" ,

    "the widget, the wadget and Boff" = "le scoubidule, le chosistor et Boff",

    "hlör u fang, axaxaxas mlö" = "vers le haut, aprčs une fluctuation persistante, il luna" , etc., etc.

    Pierre
    ffg.jeudego.org/2005/FRGO/209.html

    TomB ::: (view all by) ::: February 16, 2005, 02:57 PM:

    For all you New Yorkers, or those who wish to dream of being there, NASA has posted a high resolution satellite image of The Gates in Central Park. Actually, it's all of Central Park, and good chunks of the city on either side, but you can see the gates very clearly.

    James D. Macdonald ::: (view all by) ::: February 17, 2005, 09:53 PM:

    Today's bible verse for Mr. Bush to contemplate:

    Isaiah 10:1-3

    Woe unto them that decree unrighteous decrees, and that write grievousness [which] they have prescribed; to turn aside the needy from judgment, and to take away the right from the poor of my people, that widows may be their prey, and [that] they may rob the fatherless! And what will ye do in the day of visitation, and in the desolation [which] shall come from far? to whom will ye flee for help? and where will ye leave your glory?

    Jon H ::: (view all by) ::: February 18, 2005, 12:47 AM:

    "I sometimes think that, in two thousand years, at least seven languages will use some variant of "Bush" to mean emperor."


    Perhaps.

    But it may also come to be synonymous with "Nero".

    Jonathan Vos Post ::: (view all by) ::: February 18, 2005, 12:19 PM:

    James D. Macdonald:

    Good sermon!

    I have heard that there are slightly over 3,000 verses in the Bible which refer to poverty. There's one that refers to a burning Bush. Connect the dots...

    Kate Nepveu ::: (view all by) ::: February 21, 2005, 09:42 AM:

    People over on Usenet are noting again that Martha Wells' _Element of Fire_ is very hard to find, expensive to purchase when found, and also very very good.

    If in your copious free time you have a moment, Patrick, to advise which publisher we should be lobbying to get _Element_ back into print, I would greatly appreciate it.

    Arthur D. Hlavaty ::: (view all by) ::: February 21, 2005, 10:59 AM:

    I was pleasantly surprised by the Sante piece on Dylan. Perhaps it's time to reconsider my grudge against him for doing one iteration of the traditional Harper's/Atlantic "Nyah, nyah, sf isn't about the real world, so it can't be literature."

    Lenny Bailes ::: (view all by) ::: February 21, 2005, 12:15 PM:

    Many thanks for posting the Sante link, which I would otherwise have missed. I'm glad of it for the sense of cogent appreciation it communicates of Dylan's works. Maybe others, like Arthur, will be inspired to reinvestigate them.

    Sante makes subtle points about intrinsic differences in Dylan's poetry in the '60s and the acclaimed 1974-1975 "Blood on the Tracks." But I itch to take issue with some of them. I love a lot of Dylan's work from the '70s and believe that "Forever Young" (from the 1973 Planet Waves album) is as good as anything he's ever written.

    (Arthur, if you remember, I'd also like to work on your prejudice against Dylan's voice. Every time you claim he can't sing, I point you to MP3 samples that offer some small validation for his 1966 boast that "I could sing like Caruso, if I wanted to.")

    There's no MP3 link to Dylan's best cover of "Spanish is A Loving Tongue" (the B-side of the "Watching the River Flow" single). The sample version on the Dylan website (that I've pointed you to, twice) is mellifluous. But that version is susceptible to the echo'd claim that he was simply indulging in self-parody. It includes a female backup chorus and mariachi instrumental break. When critics level the parody/kitsche accusation against Dylan, I think many of them are fixated on "Self Portrait" and the now O.P. 1973 cover album that includes "Mr. Bojangles," "A Fool Such As I," and a bunch of other ballads. But there's a song on that album that I love, too: "Lily of the West." (Emma Bull also does a good cover of that one on one of the Flash Girls albums.)

    Kathryn Cramer ::: (view all by) ::: February 21, 2005, 07:34 PM:

    I've spent entirely too much time and disk space creating an excessive photo album of this year's Boskone:

    http://kathryncramer.typepad.com/photos/boskone_2005/

    Patrick Nielsen Hayden ::: (view all by) ::: February 22, 2005, 11:54 AM:

    Kate Nepveu: I don't know what publisher, if any, has the rights to Martha Wells's The Element of Fire. We reverted those rights to the author some years back.

    Kate Nepveu ::: (view all by) ::: February 22, 2005, 01:00 PM:

    Patrick--thanks for letting me know. It's much appreciated.

    Claude Muncey ::: (view all by) ::: February 22, 2005, 08:36 PM:

    It does not appear that anyone here has mentioned Sam Hughes' How to Destroy the Earth. It's got a nice disclaimer in small type all the way at the bottom:

    Usual "don't try this at home" disclaimers apply. I accept no responsibility for the destruction of Earth or any other celestial body
    Jonathan Vos Post ::: (view all by) ::: February 24, 2005, 07:37 PM:

    Bird IQ Test Takes Flight
    "How smart is your parakeet or that crow in the back yard? Ask Dr. Louis Lefebvre, inventor of the world's only comprehensive avian IQ index."

    "the IQ index meticulously avoids the factor that gets feathers ruffled with human IQ tests: cultural bias. The index statistically takes into account differences in the number of observations for commonly seen birds, such as crows, and rare isolated sightings. Even then, he says, there's a clear hierarchy for bird innovation ability. The crow and falcon families are at the top of the class, followed by hawks, woodpeckers and herons...."

    Exactly where do hamsters score on this test, one wonder?

    Ray Radlein ::: (view all by) ::: February 26, 2005, 02:26 AM:
    Exactly where do hamsters score on this test, one wonder?

    Are you talking about the rare flightless hamsters?

    Jonathan Vos Post ::: (view all by) ::: February 28, 2005, 03:03 AM:

    Ray Radlein:

    You know, the Awk, the Dodo, the rare flightless hamsters fighting their way across the ocean, carrying coconuts...

    Fossilized missing links between hippos and whales, hamsters and archeopteryx, that sort of thing...

    Speaking of biology, my son (in the car as I drove us back from a weekend in Vegas) finished "Heaven" by Ian Stewart and Jack Cohen. He agreed with me that this was, in many ways, the Science Fiction novel of the year. He also feared that it went over the heads of 99% of the audience, but begrudged that the first-level plot and cool aliens would entertain most of those 99%.

    I don't which comic in which newspaper he laughed at, as I was, y'know, watching the road. But he described a drawing of a snake with an apple asking a caveman if the lady of the cave was home. The caption was something like "theory voted most likely to offend everyone."

    Andrew Willett ::: (view all by) ::: March 03, 2005, 11:40 AM:

    Patrick, your new "Robert Byrd, hero" link in the sidelights is busted.

    Dan Blum ::: (view all by) ::: March 03, 2005, 11:57 AM:

    With regard to the "What actually sells books" link, I would like to note that I think publishers' publicity efforts are still important in creating the index cases - the people who recommend the books to others.

    For example, I like Dave Duncan's books (and was pleased to see that Tor will be publishing his new duology, by the way). I've given some as gifts and recommended them to people who have bought and read them, and probably recommended them to yet other people, etc. So, nothing the publishers did got them to buy the books directly. However, I started reading Duncan because of a review in Locus, which was there because the publisher sent a review copy, so that has had an indirect effect on them.

    Whether advertisements for books, as opposed to review copies, do much of anything, I couldn't say.

    Patrick Nielsen Hayden ::: (view all by) ::: March 03, 2005, 03:31 PM:

    Andrew: Fixed. Thanks. (It was that well-known typo "herf".)

    Lois Fundis ::: (view all by) ::: March 04, 2005, 04:38 PM:

    The 1950s IPOD reminds me of the first transistor radio I had, in the early 1960s. Similar size, and same purpose: to have my music (or, sometimes, ball games) wherever I went.

    John M. Ford ::: (view all by) ::: March 04, 2005, 05:33 PM:

    THE EDISON LABORATORIES
    Scientia Gratia Pecuniam
    Announce Their Greatest Technical Advance In Nearly A Week

    MyGram(tm) is a device for playing cylindrical wax records that is wholly contained within a gentleman's top hat. Now, no formal occasion need be without the charms of music, no matter how confined it may be. Puccini in the Pullman berth, Borodin in the boudoir, Sousa in the showerbath! Business Executives may play Hortatory Messages throughout the Working Day, both increasing productivity and reminding the Lackeys of Industry that they are under surveillance. The mechanism, once primed with a Recording, is Rewound by the simple act of tipping the Hat to a passing Lady. (The Habitually Shy Gent may wish to peruse our catalog of Witty Repartee Cylinders for All Occasions, available in plain wrapper for the sum of $5 cash or stamps.)

    Xopher (Christopher Hatton) ::: (view all by) ::: March 04, 2005, 06:02 PM:

    (It was that well-known typo "herf".)

    As in herf nerder? (Princess Leia Spooner: "...luffy scrooking herf nerder!")

    Forgive me. It's the end of a long, annoying week. Besides, they were delicious: so sweet, and so cold.

    Heresiarch ::: (view all by) ::: March 06, 2005, 03:38 AM:

    I was just about to make a point about the "what really sells books" sidebar, but I see Dan Blum beat me to it, and did a better job at it too.

    Anyways: yar, what he said. And marketers really ought to look at what it is that the index cases (to borrow M. Blum's terminology) say makes them pick up books.

    (Speaking as an index case myself, it's good covers. If I like the cover, I'll at least pick it up and read the back. Only recently did I realize how many of the books I own have covers by Michael Whelan.)

    David Goldfarb ::: (view all by) ::: March 07, 2005, 03:54 AM:

    THE EDISON LABORATORIES
    Scientia Gratia Pecuniam

    *snrch*.

    But it should be "Pecuniae".

    James D. Macdonald ::: (view all by) ::: March 07, 2005, 09:04 AM:

    Back to the draft question:

    The Army in February, for the first time in nearly five years, failed to achieve its monthly recruiting goal. It is in danger of missing its annual recruiting target for the first time since 1999.

    Recruiting for the Army's reserve component -- the National Guard and Army Reserve -- is suffering even more as the Pentagon relies heavily on these part-time soldiers to maintain troop levels in Iraq. The regular Army is 6 percent behind its year-to-date recruiting target, the Reserve is 10 percent behind, and the Guard is 26 percent short.

    The Marine Corps, the other service providing ground forces in Iraq, has its own difficulties.

    In January and February, the Marines missed their goal for signing up new recruits -- the first such shortfall in nearly a decade -- but remained a bit ahead of their target for shipping recruits into basic training.

    Mary Kay ::: (view all by) ::: March 08, 2005, 07:47 PM:

    The Milton Glaser thing is interesting. But. He's gotten something so wrong, through assuming everyone is the same, in one of them, I am suspicious of the others. The one I am talking about is the test for whether someone is toxic or nurturing in your relationship. It doesn't matter how much I love someone or they love me and how good our relationship is or whatever: I am an introvert; contact with people is exhausting. Solitude is refreshing and re-energizing. By his standards this would make everyone toxic to me and that's clearly nonsense. I feel I'm not being as clear about this as I'd like because I have a really bad cold. If people are confused I'll try again.

    MKK

    Patrick Nielsen Hayden ::: (view all by) ::: March 09, 2005, 08:32 AM:

    A good point, but I don't think it vitiates the other stuff.

    Mary Kay ::: (view all by) ::: March 10, 2005, 09:31 PM:

    Well, I don't know whether it does or not; I haven't the experience necessary to address most of them. It merely, as I said, makes me suspicous of them. What other assumptions is he using which are true for him but not for others which might tend to undermine his point? No way for me to know so I'll have some salt thanks.

    MKK

    Patrick Nielsen Hayden ::: (view all by) ::: March 11, 2005, 02:41 PM:

    I dunno. I too am an introvert, by the definition Mary Kay uses; indeed, she and I have talked about this.

    However, there's a real difference between the fatigue I feel when I'm generally "peopled out" and the enervation caused by exposure to the particular sort of person Glaser is calling "toxic."

    At any rate, I didn't post Glaser's list because I agreed with every word; I posted it because he's one of the greatest graphic designers of the modern age and I'm interested in how he thinks.

    Xopher (Christopher Hatton) ::: (view all by) ::: March 11, 2005, 03:54 PM:

    There are different kinds of toxic people. The kind that makes you feel drained is called a vampire. Not all these folks do it on purpose; I once knew a perfectly nice person who was impossible to be around for long periods because she was unconsciously draining the energy in the room.

    One other kind of toxic person just makes you feel less than you were. Less confident, less competent, less mature. These people are often highly solicitous of your well-being, and will do anything to help you...except NOT help you. The toxicity in that case comes from their underlying assumption that you can't do anything.

    I have to read Glaser's list. I've probably covered some of the same ground.

    Vicki ::: (view all by) ::: March 11, 2005, 04:20 PM:

    It occurs to me that toxic/draining people are more likely to push themselves on you when you know that what you need is to be alone for a while and rest. Basic decent non-toxic people are more likely to accept that if you say you need to be alone, you mean it, you're probably correct about your own needs, and that it doesn't mean you don't like them.

    Jonathan Vos Post ::: (view all by) ::: March 11, 2005, 04:58 PM:

    Patrick:

    Is it okay for me to mention that I used to babysit for the children of the executive assistant at Pushpin Studios, and so got to meet the boss, Milton Glaser? No, I'd better not. But I did especially love his Bob Dylan poster.

    Mary Kay ::: (view all by) ::: March 11, 2005, 04:58 PM:

    Patrick's distinction is a real one, but one which Glaser didn't make -- at least in my reading. I did enjoy the article and I think there's good stuff in it -- I said that. However he seems to want them to be universally applicable truths -- unless I'm gravely misreading and that's not impossible -- and I have my doubts about that.

    MKK-- why yes, my brain is fuzzy today in conversation with Jordin this morning I said, "fewer and farer between." Recovering though.

    Harry Connolly ::: (view all by) ::: March 13, 2005, 06:35 PM:

    Thanks for the Snowmonkey cam.

    Julie L. ::: (view all by) ::: March 15, 2005, 12:35 AM:

    Well dang-- I thought the volcano/birth of SF link would be about something even older than Thera/Atlantis. (The Black Sea floodout of the proto-Indo-Europeans might qualify as an older SFgenic event, but not terribly volcanic.)

    Xopher (Christopher Hatton) ::: (view all by) ::: March 17, 2005, 01:47 PM:

    OMG, as the kids say. So. Wrong. indeed. Every time I think I know how tasteless people are, they astonish me with new depths.

    If you get one of these things, don't honeymoon in Hawaii. If you do, don't visit an active volcano. Temptation.

    Claude Muncey ::: (view all by) ::: March 17, 2005, 04:04 PM:

    An overly picky note on the vortex shots -- they are generally refeered to as von Kármán vortex sheets, after Theodore von Kármán (born Kármán Tódor).

    NASA has some nifty shots of this phenomena as seen from orbit.

    Claude Muncey ::: (view all by) ::: March 17, 2005, 04:06 PM:

    Whooops -- managed to post this on the wrong side. Sorry!

    Rich McAllister ::: (view all by) ::: March 17, 2005, 04:50 PM:

    I see The One Ring [tm] is available in white gold for Stephen Donaldson fans...

    Alex Cohen ::: (view all by) ::: March 17, 2005, 05:52 PM:

    I see The One Ring [tm] is available in white gold for Stephen Donaldson fans...

    Just the thing if you think of your spouse-to-be as an outcast evil unclean Dark Lord leper.

    I can only imagine the arguments: "Why don't you just shut your big Mouth of Sauron!"

    Bruce Arthurs ::: (view all by) ::: March 17, 2005, 08:51 PM:

    Just read the news of Andre Norton's death.

    The AP article mentioned that Tor Books had done a special one-copy rush job of THREE HANDS TO SCORPIO, so Norton would be able to see a copy of her last book before she died.

    Whoever's idea that was... give them a raise. Or a bonus. Or a fancy dinner. Or all three. They deserve something special for the thoughtfulness.

    Lenora Rose ::: (view all by) ::: March 18, 2005, 01:02 AM:

    The One Ring Wedding bands. All I can say is,

    "It Hurts us! Hurtsss us! It burns!"

    Good lord. If Colin sprang that on me...That's the one valid excuse I can think of for standing in the church, saying the vows, looking down at the ring on its cushion, and going, "Bugger this."

    And I've always destested the Hollywood love for ending engagements by someone being left at the altar (And yes, Hell's Bells most certainly counts, more because it's also o-o-c), and swore I'd never leave a guy that way*.

    *Or, now it's legal up here, a girl...

    Jonathan Vos Post ::: (view all by) ::: March 18, 2005, 02:23 AM:

    Customer Service? Can I return these wedding gifts? I already had a palantir. Not for cash? Only exchange? Okay, do you have a vest like this, only in mithril?

    LauraJMixon ::: (view all by) ::: March 18, 2005, 10:22 AM:

    Oh Jeez. "...and in the darkness, bind them!"


    -l.

    Mary Kay ::: (view all by) ::: March 18, 2005, 01:46 PM:

    Laura: Well, as I pointed out elsewhere, it covers bondage games, but still...

    Then there's that whole ONE ring thing. Talk about unclear on the concept.

    MKK

    James D. Macdonald ::: (view all by) ::: March 22, 2005, 11:37 AM:
    WASHINGTON (Reuters) -- The U.S. Army, stung by recruiting shortfalls caused by the Iraq war, has raised the maximum age for new recruits for the part-time Army Reserve and National Guard by five years to 39, officials said Monday.
    Jonathan Vos Post ::: (view all by) ::: March 22, 2005, 01:16 PM:

    James D. Macdonald:

    Along the lines of "Geezer's War" and Jerry Pournelle's series "There Will Be War," I link to:

    In the Minds of Men
    Nearly twenty years ago, an international committee of scholars published a statement it hoped would dispel the scientific theories being used to explain and justify violence. Few people blinked. Can recent advances toward understanding our hostility and aggression finally open our eyes to the idea that our nature does not necessarily condemn us to war?

    by Jenny Desai

    ... Nature may be “red in tooth and claw,” as English poet Alfred Tennyson wrote, but is our human nature similarly bloodied because of an inheritance from our evolutionary past? It’s tempting to anthropomorphize every conflict we see on Animal Planet into a war skirmish, or to brand every chimp a war chief, but according to Richard Wrangham, a Harvard University professor of biological anthropology, war is “a political activity in which leaders direct coalitionary violence. So I don’t think of ‘war’ as occurring in chimpanzees or other animals.”

    Violent behavior abounds along our evolutionary family tree, but warlike behavior per se does not; it begins and ends with us, he says...

    David Moles ::: (view all by) ::: March 22, 2005, 01:22 PM:

    John Scalzi, here we come.

    Xopher (Christopher Hatton) ::: (view all by) ::: March 23, 2005, 05:03 PM:

    I thought Glen Canyon was that guy who sang the song about the green apples in Indianapolis...

    Mary Kay ::: (view all by) ::: March 28, 2005, 01:15 PM:

    Thanks for the article about Susan Sonntag. The best self-revelatory writing reveals us to ourselves as the author reveals herself. This is some of the very best.

    MKK

    Epacris ::: (view all by) ::: April 05, 2005, 01:37 PM:

    Slightly cheery news for the spam-haters, and those dreading its infestation of mobile (cell) phones. From the Sydney Morning Herald: SMS campaign backfires as car firm is fined for sending spam
    By Kirsty Needham, Consumer Reporter
    April 6, 2005

    A car company that sent text messages to people after copying their mobile phone numbers from classified advertisements has been fined under the Spam Act.

    It is the first time that text message advertising has been caught under the new law, which came into effect last year and is designed to cut the torrent of junk email.

    Carsales.com.au was fined $6600 after members of the public complained to the Australian Communications Authority about the unwanted marketing messages.

    The chief executive of the automotive website, Greg Roebuck, said his staff sent out several hundred of the text messages each week because he believed it was "less intrusive" than calling.

    But the authority ruled that the recipients of the messages had no relationship with the car website and did not give their consent to receiving the text messages ... href="http://www.smh.com.au/news/Technology/Car-firm-fined-for-sending-spam/2005/04/05/1112489491022.html">(more)