Nielsen Hayden genealogy

Richard de Camville

Male - 1217


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Generation: 1

  1. 1.  Richard de Camville was born , of Avington, Berkshire, England (son of Gerard de Camville and Nichole de la Haye); died Mar 1217.

    Other Events:

    • Alternate death: Bef 1230

    Richard married Eustache Basset 1200. Eustache (daughter of Gilbert Basset and Egeline de Courtenay) died Bef 1215. [Group Sheet]

    Children:
    1. Idoine de Camville was born Bef 1206; died Between 1 Jan 1251 and 21 Sep 1251.
    2. Walter de Camville

Generation: 2

  1. 2.  Gerard de Camville was born Abt 1150, of Brattleby, Welton, Lincolnshire, England (son of Richard de Camville and Alice); died 1214.

    Other Events:

    • Alternate death: Abt 1215

    Notes:

    Sheriff of Lincolnshire 1189, 1199-1205.

    The Oxford Dictionary of National Biography says (without citing specific evidence) that he was the son of Richard de Camville's first wife, Alice/Adeliza.

    John P. Ravilious argues otherwise: "[G]iven the chronology of the career of Gerard de Camville and of his son Richard (who was probably born ca. 1170/1180 based on his marriage to Eustache Bisset), I don't see any particular reason to attribute Gerard's birth to a period before 1145."

    But Douglas Richardson wrote on SGM, 9 Jan 2016, that "Contemporary records indicate that Richard de Camville had four sons, Gerard, Walter, William, and Richard, and two daughters, Maud and Isabel. Of these children, it would appear that the son Richard and the daughter Isabel (wife of Robert de Harcourt) were the only children by Richard de Camville's 2nd wife, Milicent de Rethel. This is deduced by the fact that Milicent de Rethel's lands at Stanton Harcourt, Oxfordshire (which she had by grant of her kinswoman, Queen Alice) were held after Milicent's death by the younger Richard de Camville. When the younger Richard de Camville died in 1191, he was succeeded briefly by his son and heir, John. It appears that John de Camville soon died without issue, and the lands at Stanton Harcourt reverted to his father Richard's sister, Isabel de Harcourt or her representative. Had Milicent de Rethel been the mother of the elder Richard de Camville's other sons, Stanton Harcourt would have fallen to them, ahead of Isabel Harcourt. The succession at Stanton Harcourt suggests that the younger Richard de Camville and Isabel de Harcourt were full sublings, and the only children of Milicent de Rethel by the elder Richard de Camville."

    And Todd Farmerie, on 10 Jan 2016, backed up Richardson's argument: "It is not how Richard came to possess Stanton that suggests he was the only (surviving, with issue) son of Richard by Milicent, it is what happened at young Richard's demise. If there was another son of Richard by Milicent, that hypothetical son would have been heir to Richard. The fact that Stanton went to Isabel is strong evidence that none of the other Camville lines derive from the same parents. (Just as a reminder, there is a quirk to English inheritance law at this period, whereby only full-blood relationships qualify. Half-brothers, whether on the Camville or Marmion sides, would not be heirs of Richard unless specified as a reversion in the original grant.) The assumptions in this conclusion are 1) that Isabel inherited Stanton, rather than having been granted it by John, heir to her brother Richard, and 2) that when Milicent granted it to Richard, she did not set up a reversion that preferred Isabel to another (hypothetical) full sibling. As far as I know, neither of these is formally excluded but parsimony would favor the most straightforward reconstruction, that Isabel inherited from John, and thus she did not have any other full siblings."

    Gerard married Nichole de la Haye. Nichole (daughter of Richard de la Haye and Maud de Vernon) was born , of Brattleby, Welton, Lincolnshire, England; died 1230. [Group Sheet]


  2. 3.  Nichole de la Haye was born , of Brattleby, Welton, Lincolnshire, England (daughter of Richard de la Haye and Maud de Vernon); died 1230.

    Other Events:

    • Alternate death: Bef 1231

    Notes:

    "Acting as hereditary constable ('castellan') of Lincoln, she defended the city against the baronial opponents of King John under Earl William of Lincoln, 1216." [John P. Ravilious, citation details below, citing King John by W. L. Warren (Methuen, 1981).]

    Children:
    1. 1. Richard de Camville was born , of Avington, Berkshire, England; died Mar 1217.


Generation: 3

  1. 4.  Richard de Camville was born , of Stanton Harcourt, Oxfordshire, England (son of (Unknown) de Camville and (Unknown) de Vere); died 1176, Apulia, Sicily.

    Other Events:

    • Alternate birth: of Godington, Oxfordshire, England

    Notes:

    Sheriff of Oxfordshire and Berkshire, 1154. Constable of Lincoln Castle. Founded the Ciscercian monastery at Combe, Warwickshire in 1150. Witness, in 1153, to the agreement between Stephen and the future Henry II at Wallingford. Died while accompanying the king's daughter, Joan, on her journey to Palermo to be married to King William II of Sicily.

    Richard married Alice. [Group Sheet]


  2. 5.  Alice
    Children:
    1. 2. Gerard de Camville was born Abt 1150, of Brattleby, Welton, Lincolnshire, England; died 1214.

  3. 6.  Richard de la Haye was born , of Brattleby, Welton, Lincolnshire, England (son of Robert de la Haye and Muriel of Lincoln); died 1169.

    Other Events:

    • Alternate death: Aft 1189

    Notes:

    Constable of Lincoln Castle.

    Richard married Maud de Vernon. [Group Sheet]


  4. 7.  Maud de Vernon (daughter of William de Vernon and Lucy de Tancarville).
    Children:
    1. 3. Nichole de la Haye was born , of Brattleby, Welton, Lincolnshire, England; died 1230.


Generation: 4

  1. 8.  (Unknown) de Camville

    (Unknown) married (Unknown) de Vere. [Group Sheet]


  2. 9.  (Unknown) de Vere (daughter of Aubrey de Vere and Beatrice).

    Notes:

    John P. Ravilious quotes from Keats-Rohan's Domesday Descendants, regarding her son Richard de Camville:

    "His mother was a daughter of Alberic de Vere (cf. Rot. de Dom. 84 an note; Comp. Peer. x, App. J., n. j.), as may be inferred from the descent of his Domesday manor of Hildersham as the marriage portion of Matilda de Ros, daughter of Richard; Matilda granted land there to Clerkenwell priory, c. 1190 when her daughter Beatrice became a nun and the grant was confirmed by Alberic III de Ver (Cart. Clerkenwell, 24-26)."

    "[Alberic de Ver was father] possibly also of a daughter who was mother of Richard de Camville." [K. S. B. Keats-Rohan, Domesday People]

    Children:
    1. 4. Richard de Camville was born , of Stanton Harcourt, Oxfordshire, England; died 1176, Apulia, Sicily.

  3. 12.  Robert de la Haye was born , of La Haye-du-Puits, Normandy, France (son of Ralph de la Haye and (Unknown) Haldup); died Bef 1156.

    Notes:

    Lord of Brattleby by right of his wife. Founder of Boxgrove priory. "One of Henry I's new men." [John Watson, citation details below.]

    Robert married Muriel of Lincoln. [Group Sheet]


  4. 13.  Muriel of Lincoln (daughter of Picot of Lincoln and Beatrix).
    Children:
    1. 6. Richard de la Haye was born , of Brattleby, Welton, Lincolnshire, England; died 1169.

  5. 14.  William de Vernon (son of Richard de Revières and Adelise Peverel); died Bef 1174.

    William married Lucy de Tancarville. Lucy (daughter of William de Tancarville and Maud d'Arques) died Abt 1165. [Group Sheet]


  6. 15.  Lucy de Tancarville (daughter of William de Tancarville and Maud d'Arques); died Abt 1165.
    Children:
    1. 7. Maud de Vernon