Nielsen Hayden genealogy

Richard de Camville

Male - 1217


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Generation: 1

  1. 1.  Richard de Camville was born in of Avington, Berkshire, England (son of Gerard de Camville and Nichole de la Haye); died in Mar 1217.

    Other Events and Attributes:

    • Alternate death: Bef 1230

    Richard married Eustache Basset in 1200. Eustache (daughter of Gilbert Basset and Egeline de Courtenay) died before 1215. [Group Sheet] [Family Chart]

    Children:
    1. Idoine de Camville was born before 1206; died between 1 Jan 1251 and 21 Sep 1251.

Generation: 2

  1. 2.  Gerard de Camville was born about 1150 in of Brattleby, Welton, Lincolnshire, England (son of Richard de Camville and Alice); died in Jan 1215.

    Other Events and Attributes:

    • Alternate death: 1214
    • Alternate death: Bef Jan 1215

    Notes:

    Sheriff of Lincolnshire 1189, 1199-1205.

    The Oxford Dictionary of National Biography says (without citing specific evidence) that he was the son of Richard de Camville's first wife, Alice/Adeliza.

    John P. Ravilious argues otherwise: "[G]iven the chronology of the career of Gerard de Camville and of his son Richard (who was probably born ca. 1170/1180 based on his marriage to Eustache Bisset), I don't see any particular reason to attribute Gerard's birth to a period before 1145."

    But Douglas Richardson wrote on SGM, 9 Jan 2016, that "Contemporary records indicate that Richard de Camville had four sons, Gerard, Walter, William, and Richard, and two daughters, Maud and Isabel. Of these children, it would appear that the son Richard and the daughter Isabel (wife of Robert de Harcourt) were the only children by Richard de Camville's 2nd wife, Milicent de Rethel. This is deduced by the fact that Milicent de Rethel's lands at Stanton Harcourt, Oxfordshire (which she had by grant of her kinswoman, Queen Alice) were held after Milicent's death by the younger Richard de Camville. When the younger Richard de Camville died in 1191, he was succeeded briefly by his son and heir, John. It appears that John de Camville soon died without issue, and the lands at Stanton Harcourt reverted to his father Richard's sister, Isabel de Harcourt or her representative. Had Milicent de Rethel been the mother of the elder Richard de Camville's other sons, Stanton Harcourt would have fallen to them, ahead of Isabel Harcourt. The succession at Stanton Harcourt suggests that the younger Richard de Camville and Isabel de Harcourt were full sublings, and the only children of Milicent de Rethel by the elder Richard de Camville."

    And Todd Farmerie, on 10 Jan 2016, backed up Richardson's argument: "It is not how Richard came to possess Stanton that suggests he was the only (surviving, with issue) son of Richard by Milicent, it is what happened at young Richard's demise. If there was another son of Richard by Milicent, that hypothetical son would have been heir to Richard. The fact that Stanton went to Isabel is strong evidence that none of the other Camville lines derive from the same parents. (Just as a reminder, there is a quirk to English inheritance law at this period, whereby only full-blood relationships qualify. Half-brothers, whether on the Camville or Marmion sides, would not be heirs of Richard unless specified as a reversion in the original grant.) The assumptions in this conclusion are 1) that Isabel inherited Stanton, rather than having been granted it by John, heir to her brother Richard, and 2) that when Milicent granted it to Richard, she did not set up a reversion that preferred Isabel to another (hypothetical) full sibling. As far as I know, neither of these is formally excluded but parsimony would favor the most straightforward reconstruction, that Isabel inherited from John, and thus she did not have any other full siblings."

    Gerard married Nichole de la Haye before 1185. Nichole (daughter of Richard de la Haye and Maud de Vernon) was born in of Brattleby, Welton, Lincolnshire, England; died on 20 Nov 1230 in Swaton, North Kesteven, Lincolnshire, England. [Group Sheet] [Family Chart]


  2. 3.  Nichole de la Haye was born in of Brattleby, Welton, Lincolnshire, England (daughter of Richard de la Haye and Maud de Vernon); died on 20 Nov 1230 in Swaton, North Kesteven, Lincolnshire, England.

    Other Events and Attributes:

    • Alternate death: Bef 1231

    Notes:

    "Acting as hereditary constable ('castellan') of Lincoln, she defended the city against the baronial opponents of King John under Earl William of Lincoln, 1216." [John P. Ravilious, citation details below, citing King John by W. L. Warren (Methuen, 1981).]

    From the Oxford Dictionary of National Biography (citation details below):

    The office of constable passed through her to each of her husbands, and in August 1189 she and Canville crossed to Barfleur, Normandy, to obtain a charter confirming their inheritance in both England and Normandy from King Richard. This included Lincoln Castle as it had been held by Nicola's father and grandfather. It is likely that the shrievalty of the county of Lincoln was also included in the grant, which cost Canville and Nicola 700 marks.

    In 1191 Nicola was besieged with her husband at Lincoln Castle when he quarrelled with William de Longchamp (d. 1197), the chancellor and justiciar of England in Richard's absence. In 1194 she fined for the sum of 300 marks with King Richard to marry her daughter, Matilda, according to her will, excepting one of the king's enemies. She continued to account for this debt until 1212, having renegotiated the amount with King John in 1200, and in 1201 she still owed £20, 40 marks, and one palfrey. Nicola enjoyed a cordial relationship with the fickle John. According to a later tradition recorded nearly sixty years after the events, Nicola had met John when he went to Lincoln in 1216. Her husband had recently died, and she went to meet the king leaving the castle by the eastern postern gate with its keys in her hand. She offered them to John saying that she was of great age and unable to continue with the office any longer. John sought her out and said, 'My beloved Nicola, I will that you keep the castle as hitherto, until I shall order otherwise' (Rotuli hundredorum, 1.315). The king granted the shrievalty of Lincoln to Nicola and Philip Marc a few hours before his death on 18 October 1216. The ageing widow was besieged at Lincoln by the rebels under the leadership of Louis of France, and she held the castle for the royalists until she was relieved in 1217. One source alleges that she had been entrusted with the castle 'in exchange for money' and that the castle was relieved since it would have been considered 'dishonourable not to help so brave a lady' (Historical Collections of Walter of Coventry, 2.237–8). The Histoire de Guillaume le Mare?chal narrates that, before the attack by the royalist forces, Peter des Roches, bishop of Winchester, penetrated the castle by a secret route and met Nicola to reassure her that the siege would shortly be raised. She was apparently delighted to hear the news, and it seems that her intransigent defence of the castle facilitated a successful attack by the royalists which saw the rout of the rebel forces. The battle at Lincoln on 20 May 1217 was one of two decisive battles that ended the claim of Louis to the throne of England. The ending of the siege was followed by looting and sacrilege. Despite her alleged earlier protestations of age and incompetence, Nicola determinedly held on to the office in the face of repeated attempts by William (II) Longespée, the husband of her granddaughter Idonea and son of the earl of Salisbury, to eject her from it. In 1219 she is recorded as holding dower in Swaton, Lincolnshire, worth £20 annually. Nicola resigned the office of castellan in 1226 and died in Swaton on 20 November 1230.

    From Women in Thirteenth-Century Lincolnshire (citation details below):

    Significantly, in spite of her legal subordination to her husband, Nicholaa was actively involved in the management of her estates during this marriage. The strongest image of her working in partnership with Gerard can be found in the chronicle of Richard of Devizes and concerns the events of 1191. During the king's absence on crusade, Gerard de Camville became entangled in the violent dispute between the royal chancellor and John, count of Mortain. According to Richard of Devizes, while Gerard was with John, helping him to secure the castles of Nottingham and Tickhill, 'his wife, Nicholaa, not thinking about anything womanly, defended the castle manfully' ('uxor eius Nicolaa nichil femineum cogitans, castellum viriliter custodiebat') against the chancellor's forces. Richard's sympathetic description of Nicholaa's actions contrasts strongly with his less complimentary treatment of her husband: he had characterised Gerard de Camville earlier in his narrative as a 'factious man, prodigal of his allegiance' ('homo factiosus et fidei prodigus'). Richard's choice of language to describe Nicholaa's qualities as a military leader clearly implies that, although the role which she adopted was unusual for a woman, her performance in the author's eyes was all the more praiseworthy because of her sex. Yet it might also have been intended to highlight the less satisfactory conduct of Nicholaa's husband. It was certainly a wise move by Gerard to place Nicholaa, the living focus for loyalties to the la Haye family, in charge of Lincoln castle at a time when their standing in the locality was of paramount importance. Gerard's decision to leave Nicholaa, rather than a male deputy, in command of the garrison on this occasion indicates that she played an important role in the day-to-day running of her inheritance under more stable conditions. Lincoln was, after all, a particularly large and strategically significant castle, situated on a high ridge that looked out to the west over the Trent valley. The pipe roll for 1191 reveals that mercenary soldiers were employed for forty days on the siege of Lincoln castle. It was no mean feat on Nicholaa's part to withstand a siege for over a month. [...]

    It was both a measure of Nicholaa's high esteem in [King] John's eyes and a sign of the desperate circumstances in which he found himself that on 18 October 1216, presumably just hours before his death, Nicholaa was appointed joint sheriff of Lincolnshire with Philip Mark. This appointment of a woman as a sheriff was unprecedented and needs explanation. Although Round found a near-contemporary case in Norfolk where a woman, Margaret de Caisneto, had apparently carried her late father's claim to the shrievalty to her second husband, there is no evidence that she ever held or exercised the duties associated with this office in her own right. Nicholaa's appointment might, however, have helped to set a precedent. Ela, the widowed countess of Salisbury, served as sheriff of Wiltshire in 1227-8 and 1231-7, and even appeared at the exchequer in person at Michaelmas 1236 to render account. The reasoning behind King John's apparent disregard for convention in Nicholaa's case emerges from the political conditions in Lincolnshire in 1216. William Morris, commenting on the immediate aftermath of Magna Carta, observed, 'To hold the counties at such a time required strong men'. Many of the men who might otherwise have been appointed sheriff under more peaceful conditions either were or recently had been in rebellion against the king. Thomas of Moulton, Gerard de Camville's successor to the shrievalty in 1205, was one example, and Alexander of Pointon, who accounted as sheriff to the exchequer at Michaelmas 1213, was another. Simon III of Kyme, a similarly experienced former royal administrator, also opposed John. Although Nicholaa's son and heir, Richard, was still alive in 1216 and had attained his majority, his untimely death in early March 1217 suggests that he was already suffering from poor health which prevented his emergence as a viable candidate. In any case, Richard had already forged a career in Leicestershire, Warwickshire and Oxfordshire, administering his inheritance from his father and the estates of his wife, Eustachia Basset. Nicholaa was a woman but at least she possessed an association with the shrievalty of Lincolnshire through her second husband, Gerard, and had enjoyed an opportunity to observe the workings of the office at first hand. The combination of Nicholaa's experience in managing and defending Lincoln castle, and the autonomy that she enjoyed as a widow, also made her a viable appointee. Hence her description by the 'Barnwell' chronicler as a 'matron' ('matrona'), a term that reflected both Nicholaa's standing and maturity.

    Children:
    1. 1. Richard de Camville was born in of Avington, Berkshire, England; died in Mar 1217.


Generation: 3

  1. 4.  Richard de Camville was born in of Stanton Harcourt, Oxfordshire, England (son of (Unknown) de Camville and (Unknown) de Vere); died in 1176 in Apulia, Sicily.

    Other Events and Attributes:

    • Alternate birth: of Godington, Oxfordshire, England
    • Alternate birth: of Middleton Stoney, Oxfordshire, England

    Notes:

    He was sheriff of Oxfordshire and Berkshire in 1154, and constable of Lincoln Castle. He founded the Cistercian monastery at Combe, Warwickshire in 1150, and was a witness, in 1153, to the agreement between Stephen and the future Henry II at Wallingford. He died while accompanying the king's daughter, Joan, on her journey to Palermo to be married to King William II of Sicily.

    Richard married Alice. [Group Sheet] [Family Chart]


  2. 5.  Alice
    Children:
    1. 2. Gerard de Camville was born about 1150 in of Brattleby, Welton, Lincolnshire, England; died in Jan 1215.

  3. 6.  Richard de la Haye was born in of Brattleby, Welton, Lincolnshire, England (son of Robert de la Haye and Muriel of Lincoln); died in 1169.

    Other Events and Attributes:

    • Alternate death: Aft 1189

    Notes:

    Heriditary constable of Lincoln Castle.

    Richard married Maud de Vernon. [Group Sheet] [Family Chart]


  4. 7.  Maud de Vernon (daughter of William de Vernon and Lucy de Tancarville).
    Children:
    1. 3. Nichole de la Haye was born in of Brattleby, Welton, Lincolnshire, England; died on 20 Nov 1230 in Swaton, North Kesteven, Lincolnshire, England.


Generation: 4

  1. 8.  (Unknown) de Camville

    (Unknown) married (Unknown) de Vere. [Group Sheet] [Family Chart]


  2. 9.  (Unknown) de Vere (daughter of Aubrey de Vere and Beatrice).

    Notes:

    John P. Ravilious quotes from Keats-Rohan's Domesday Descendants, regarding her son Richard de Camville:

    "His mother was a daughter of Alberic de Vere (cf. Rot. de Dom. 84 an note; Comp. Peer. x, App. J., n. j.), as may be inferred from the descent of his Domesday manor of Hildersham as the marriage portion of Matilda de Ros, daughter of Richard; Matilda granted land there to Clerkenwell priory, c. 1190 when her daughter Beatrice became a nun and the grant was confirmed by Alberic III de Ver (Cart. Clerkenwell, 24-26)."

    "[Alberic de Ver was father] possibly also of a daughter who was mother of Richard de Camville." [K. S. B. Keats-Rohan, Domesday People]

    Children:
    1. 4. Richard de Camville was born in of Stanton Harcourt, Oxfordshire, England; died in 1176 in Apulia, Sicily.

  3. 12.  Robert de la Haye was born in of La Haye-du-Puits, Normandy, France (son of Ralph de la Haye and (Unknown) Haldup); died before 1156.

    Other Events and Attributes:

    • Alternate death: Abt 1135

    Notes:

    Lord of Brattleby by right of his wife. Founder of Boxgrove priory. "One of Henry I's new men." [John Watson, citation details below.]

    Robert married Muriel of Lincoln. [Group Sheet] [Family Chart]


  4. 13.  Muriel of Lincoln (daughter of Picot of Lincoln and Beatrix).
    Children:
    1. 6. Richard de la Haye was born in of Brattleby, Welton, Lincolnshire, England; died in 1169.

  5. 14.  William de Vernon (son of Richard de Revières and Adelise Peverel); died before 1174.

    William married Lucy de Tancarville. Lucy (daughter of William de Tancarville and Maud d'Arques) died about 1165. [Group Sheet] [Family Chart]


  6. 15.  Lucy de Tancarville (daughter of William de Tancarville and Maud d'Arques); died about 1165.
    Children:
    1. 7. Maud de Vernon