Nielsen Hayden genealogy

Gerard de Camville

Male Abt 1150 - 1214  (~ 64 years)


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  • Name Gerard de Camville 
    Born Abt 1150  of Brattleby, Welton, Lincolnshire, England Find all individuals with events at this location  [1, 2
    Gender Male 
    Died 1214  [3, 4
    Alternate death Abt 1215  [5
    Person ID I11127  Ancestry of PNH, TNH, and others | Ancestor of Barbara Hagan, Ancestor of DDB, Ancestor of JTS, Ancestor of TNH, Ancestor of TSW, Ancestor of TWK
    Last Modified 6 Jan 2018 

    Father Richard de Camville,   b. of Stanton Harcourt, Oxfordshire, England Find all individuals with events at this location,   d. 1176, Apulia, Sicily Find all individuals with events at this location 
    Mother Alice 
    Family ID F972  Group Sheet  |  Family Chart

    Family Nichole de la Haye,   b. of Brattleby, Welton, Lincolnshire, England Find all individuals with events at this location,   d. 1230 
    Children 
    +1. Richard de Camville,   b. of Avington, Berkshire, England Find all individuals with events at this location,   d. Mar 1217
    Last Modified 16 Jun 2016 
    Family ID F4698  Group Sheet  |  Family Chart

  • Notes 
    • Sheriff of Lincolnshire 1189, 1199-1205.

      The Oxford Dictionary of National Biography says (without citing specific evidence) that he was the son of Richard de Camville's first wife, Alice/Adeliza.

      John P. Ravilious argues otherwise: "[G]iven the chronology of the career of Gerard de Camville and of his son Richard (who was probably born ca. 1170/1180 based on his marriage to Eustache Bisset), I don't see any particular reason to attribute Gerard's birth to a period before 1145."

      But Douglas Richardson wrote on SGM, 9 Jan 2016, that "Contemporary records indicate that Richard de Camville had four sons, Gerard, Walter, William, and Richard, and two daughters, Maud and Isabel. Of these children, it would appear that the son Richard and the daughter Isabel (wife of Robert de Harcourt) were the only children by Richard de Camville's 2nd wife, Milicent de Rethel. This is deduced by the fact that Milicent de Rethel's lands at Stanton Harcourt, Oxfordshire (which she had by grant of her kinswoman, Queen Alice) were held after Milicent's death by the younger Richard de Camville. When the younger Richard de Camville died in 1191, he was succeeded briefly by his son and heir, John. It appears that John de Camville soon died without issue, and the lands at Stanton Harcourt reverted to his father Richard's sister, Isabel de Harcourt or her representative. Had Milicent de Rethel been the mother of the elder Richard de Camville's other sons, Stanton Harcourt would have fallen to them, ahead of Isabel Harcourt. The succession at Stanton Harcourt suggests that the younger Richard de Camville and Isabel de Harcourt were full sublings, and the only children of Milicent de Rethel by the elder Richard de Camville."

      And Todd Farmerie, on 10 Jan 2016, backed up Richardson's argument: "It is not how Richard came to possess Stanton that suggests he was the only (surviving, with issue) son of Richard by Milicent, it is what happened at young Richard's demise. If there was another son of Richard by Milicent, that hypothetical son would have been heir to Richard. The fact that Stanton went to Isabel is strong evidence that none of the other Camville lines derive from the same parents. (Just as a reminder, there is a quirk to English inheritance law at this period, whereby only full-blood relationships qualify. Half-brothers, whether on the Camville or Marmion sides, would not be heirs of Richard unless specified as a reversion in the original grant.) The assumptions in this conclusion are 1) that Isabel inherited Stanton, rather than having been granted it by John, heir to her brother Richard, and 2) that when Milicent granted it to Richard, she did not set up a reversion that preferred Isabel to another (hypothetical) full sibling. As far as I know, neither of these is formally excluded but parsimony would favor the most straightforward reconstruction, that Isabel inherited from John, and thus she did not have any other full siblings."

  • Sources 
    1. [S1183] John P. Ravilious, 18 May 2006, post to soc.genealogy.medieval., date only.

    2. [S142] Royal Ancestry, by Douglas Richardson. Kimball G. Everingham, ed. 2013., place only.

    3. [S1183] John P. Ravilious, 18 May 2006, post to soc.genealogy.medieval.

    4. [S76] The Oxford Dictionary of National Biography (2004-ongoing).

    5. [S336] The Victoria County History of Northamptonshire. Portions online, linked from medievalgenealogy.org.uk.