Nielsen Hayden genealogy

Cecily Fleming

Female - Bef 1422


Personal Information    |    Notes    |    Sources    |    All    |    PDF

  • Name Cecily Fleming  [1
    Gender Female 
    Died Bef 1422  [2
    Person ID I19266  Ancestry of PNH, TNH, and others | Ancestor of AP, Ancestor of DDB
    Last Modified 7 Sep 2020 

    Family Robert Waterton,   b. of Methley, Yorkshire, England Find all individuals with events at this location,   d. 17 Jan 1425, Methley, Yorkshire, England Find all individuals with events at this location 
    Married Between 1399 and 1408  [2, 3, 4
    Children 
    +1. Joan Waterton,   d. Aft 18 Oct 1434
    Last Modified 7 Sep 2020 
    Family ID F11615  Group Sheet  |  Family Chart

  • Notes 
    • Douglas Richardson, 3 May 2015, post to soc.genealogy.medieval:

      It has been claimed that Cecily Fleming, wife of Robert Waterton the elder [died 1425] was the daughter and heiress of Robert Fleming, Esquire, of Woodhall.

      However, a list of the quarterings of their Dymoke descendants includes the arms of Welles and Waterton but not Fleming [Reference: Lodge, Scrivelsby, the Home of the Champions (1894): 151].

      It may be that the Fleming arms were omitted from the quarterings, or that Cecily Fleming was not an heiress.

      Further study is needed of the quarterings emplyed by the various families that are descend from Cecily (Fleming) Waterton, namely Dymoke, Hoo, Willoughby, and Launde families. If the Fleming arms are excluded the other family quarterings, then the likelihood is good that Cecily Fleming was not an heiress.

      Cecily (Fleming) Waterton is believed to be the sister of Richard Fleming, Bishop of Lincoln [died 1431]. See, for example, Harvey, English in Rome, 1362-1420 (2004): 177-178, available at the following weblink:

      https://books.google.com/books?id=GS6Oh6Gp66wC&pg=PA177

      Dodsworth's Yorkshire notes: The Wapentake of Agbrigg (1884): 27 gives evidence that Richard Fleming, Bishop of Lincoln [died 1431], was born in Crofton, Yorkshire, a village on the east side of Wakefield, Yorkshire. See the following weblink:

      https://books.google.com/books?id=IrkHAAAAQAAJ&pg=PA27

      Dodsworth specifically states the the church of Crofton, Yorkshire was removed to a different spot in the parish and was "builded by & at the onely charges of Richard Fleming Bp. of Lincolne who was (born) in the same towne at the howse where Mr. Lister now dwelleth." END OF QUOTE.

      If so, Crofton would presumably be the home parish of Cecily (Fleming) Waterton. And if Dodsworth's notes are correct, then Richard Fleming was born in a house, not at a manor.

      Dodsworth records that over the south porch of the church in stone "are cutt 2 barrs & 3 fusills in chiefe, on the first barr, a mullett [Fleming]."

      Elsewhere I find that Robert Waterton, Esq. [died 1425] presented Richard Fleming [the future Bishop] to the church of Gosberton, Lincolnshire in 1404. See Kaye, Brief History of the Church & Parish of Gosberton (1897): 35, which may be viewed at the following weblink:

      https://books.google.com/books?id=zfIVAAAAYAAJ&pg=PA35

      Kaye likewise indicates that Robert Waterton, Esq. [died 1425] presented Thomas Toneton/Towton to the church of Gosberton, Lincolnshire in 1402 and 1410.

      Harvey, English in Rome, 1362-1420 (2004): 177-178 cited above indicates that Thomas Towton was master of the hospital of St. Nicholas, Pontefract and rector of Wath-upon-Dearne, Yorkshire. Harvey cites as her source: Storey, Clergy and Common Law, p. 395, fn 314 for Pontefract; Arch. Seld. B 23, f. 128v which calls Thomas Towton "consanguineus" [kinsman] of Robert Waterton.

      Summing up the above findings, it seems rather likely that Cecily (Fleming) Waterton was not an heiress and that her home parish was Crofton, Yorkshire. Evidence has been cited which indicates that Thomas Toneton/Towton was a kinsman of Cecily's husband, Robert Waterton, Esq.

      Finally I see that Volume 1 of the Register of Richard Fleming, Bishop of Lincoln was recently published in 2009 by the Canterbury and York Society. If someone has access to this and later volumes, perhaps they can check them for references to the Bishop's family.

      Douglas Richardson, 4 May 2015, post to soc.genealogy.medieval:

      There is some interesting biographical material on Richard Fleming, Bishop of Lincoln [died 1431], the alleged brother of Cecily (Fleming) Waterton, in the book, Watanabe, Nicholas of Cusa - A Companion to his Life and his Times (2011): 125-129.

      On page 129, the author discusses Richard Fleming's nephew, Robert Fleming, Dean of Lincoln:

      "Robert Fleming, Richard's nephew and a resident in University College, Oxford, from 1430 to 1443, matriculated at Cologne in 1444 and then went to Padua. Once in Italy, he, like Grey, was attracted to humanism and, after obtaining a degree at Padua, moved to Ferrara to study under Guarino de Verona (1374-1460)."

      The editor of Testamenta Eboracensia 2 (Surtees Soc. 30) (1855): 230 states in a footnote that Richard Fleming, Bishop of Lincoln, was brother to the above mentioned Robert Fleming, Dean of Lincoln [died 1483]. However, Twemlow, Calendar of Entries in the Papal Registers relating to Great Britain and Ireland: Papal Letters 7 (1906): 497 proves that Bishop Richard Fleming was uncle to Robert Fleming, Dean of Lincoln. This record reads as follows:

      "Date: 13 Kal. Feb. 1427 [i.e., 20 Jan. 1427]. To Robert Flemmyng, clerk, of the diocese of York. Dispensation, at his own petition and that of Richard, bishop of Lincoln, whose nephew he is, after he, who is in his tenth year, has reached his twelfth year, to receive and hold any canonry and subdiaconal prebend." END OF QUOTE.

      There is a helpful biography of Robert Fleming, Dean of Lincoln, in Lumb, Registers of the Parish Church of Methley (Thoresby Soc. 12) (1903): 134, which may be viewed at the following weblink:

      https://books.google.com/books?id=iW0_AQAAMAAJ&pg=PA134

      Assuming that Cecily Fleming, wife of Robert Waterton, Esquire, was the sister of Richard Fleming, Bishop of Lincoln [died 1431], as well as the aunt of Robert Fleming, Dean of Lincoln [died 1483], it is inconceivable that Cecily Fleming was an heiress any time during her lifetime or any time near afterwards, as she had at least one male member of her family living until at least 1483.

      A record concerning the estate of Robert Waterton, Esquire [died 1425] is found in Heriots, &c., on the Wakefield Manor Rolls published in Northern Genealogist 6 (1903): 59. The record reads as follows:

      "1427. Stanley. Robert Waterton, esquire, is dead, and Robert his son and heir pays 18d. heriot."

      The above record may be viewed at the following weblink:

      http://babel.hathitrust.org/cgi/pt?id=hvd.32044090345943;view=1up;seq=69

      Given the above record and other evidence which proves that Robert Waterton, Esquire [died 1425] held property at Stanley, Yorkshire, the following Common Pleas record may be of interest:

      In 1422 Simon Flemyng sued William Hobson, of Stanley, Yorkshire, husbandman, and four others in the Court of Common Pleas regarding a trespass [vi et armis] in Stanley, Yorkshire. [Reference: Court of Common Pleas, CP40/647, image 246f available at http://aalt.law.uh.edu/AALT1/H6/CP40no647/aCP40no647fronts/IMG_0246.htm].

      Douglas Richardson, 7 May 2015, post to soc.genealogy.medieval:

      I noted earlier this past week that a list of the quarterings of the Dymoke family included the arms of Welles and Waterton, but not Fleming. See Lodge, Scrivelsby, the Home of the Champions (1894): 151.

      I've since located a list of the quarterings of the Copley family, which family is likewise descended from Cecily (Fleming) Waterton. As with the Dymoke quarterings, the Copley quarterings include the arms of Welles and Waterton, but not Fleming. See Surrey Archaeological Collections, 3 (1865): 362, available at the following weblink:

      https://books.google.com/books?id=vTUGAAAAQAAJ&pg=PA362

      It may be that the Fleming arms were carelessly omitted from both sets of the quarterings, or it may be that Cecily (Fleming) Waterton was not an heiress at all.

      Since this is the second set of quarterings which has omitted the Fleming arms, it's looking more and more likely that Cecily (Fleming) Waterton was not an heiress.

      Douglas Richardson, 8 May 2015, post to soc.genealogy.medieval:

      This past week I posted heraldic quarterings for the Dymoke and Copley families, which families are lineal descendants and co-heirs of Robert Waterton, Esq. [died 1425] and his wife, Cecily Fleming. Under normal circumstances, if Cecily Fleming was truly an heiress, or an heiress in her issue, the quarterings should have included the Fleming arms. They did not.

      Below are quartering yet for another branch of Waterton-Fleming family, namely the Berkeley family, of Wymondham, Leicestershire. As with the Dymoke and Copley families, the quarterings include Welles and Waterton, but not Fleming.

      "Berkeley, Wymondham, co. Leicester; Baronetcy 1611, extinct ...., quartering Hamlyn, Delalaunde, Welles, Engaine, and Waterton, Harl. MS. 6183, fo. 5." [Reference: Papworth, Alphabetical Dictionary of Coats of Arms ... Ordinary of British Armorials (1874): 427].

      Archaeologia Cantiana 26 (1904): 326-327 gives a similar set of heraldic quarterings found at the tomb of Gabriel Livesey [died 1622] and his wife, Anne Sondes. Gabriel Livesey was the son of Robert Livesey, by his 2nd wife, Elizabeth, daughter of Maurice Berkeley, Esq., of Wymondham, Leicestershire. Once again the quarterings contain Welles and Waterton, but not Fleming.

      Lincolnshire Notes & Queries 18 or 19 (1924): 116 includes a description plate of brass containing quarterings for the Metham family, including Welles and Waterton again, but not Fleming.

      Reports and Papers of the Architectural and Archaeological Societies of the Counties of Lincoln and Northampton 8 (1865-66): 11 provides a description of the various heraldic panels found at Spilsby, Lincolnshire at the tomb of Richard Bertie, Esq. [died 1582] and his wife, Katherine Willoughby, Duchess of Suffolk [died 1580]. Katherine Willoughby was a lineal descendant and one of the co-heirs of Robert Waterton, Esq., and his wife, Cecily Fleming. The various panels include various quarterings of the Willoughby family, including Welles and Waterton, but not Fleming.

      So far I've located six sets of quarterings for different branches of descendants of Robert Waterton, Esq., and Cecily Fleming. All six quarterings include Welles and Waterton, but not Fleming.

      I conclude on the basis of the heraldic evidence that Cecily (Fleming) Waterton was not an heiress as claimed by Robert Glover, Somerset Herald.

  • Sources 
    1. [S142] Royal Ancestry by Douglas Richardson. Kimball G. Everingham, editor. 2013.

    2. [S76] The Oxford Dictionary of National Biography. Oxford University Press, 2004-ongoing.

    3. [S4344] Brice Clagett, 29 Dec 2004, post to soc.genealogy.medieval.

    4. [S4343] Brice Clagett, 29 Dec 2004, post to soc.genealogy.medieval.