Nielsen Hayden genealogy

Renaud de Courtenay

Male - 1161


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  • Name Renaud de Courtenay  [1
    Gender Male 
    Died 1161  [2
    Person ID I8146  Ancestry of PNH, TNH, and others | Ancestor of Barbara Hagan, Ancestor of DDB, Ancestor of JTS, Ancestor of TNH, Ancestor of TSW, Ancestor of TWK
    Last Modified 19 Nov 2019 

    Father Miles de Courtenay,   d. Aft 24 May 1138 
    Mother Elisabeth de Nevers,   b. Bef 1070 
    Married Abt 1095  [3
    Family ID F15325  Group Sheet  |  Family Chart

    Children 
    +1. Elisabeth de Courtenay,   d. Aft 1205
    Last Modified 8 Jun 2019 
    Family ID F4965  Group Sheet  |  Family Chart

  • Notes 
    • Complete Peerage's chart on page 317 of volume 4 identifies this Renaud de Courtenay as the father of Reynold de Courtenay who married Hawise and died in 1194, but as far as we can determine, this Renaud and that Reynold's father are different individuals. References: Richardson, Royal Ancestry, volume 2, p. 314, Courtenay line; Richardson, Royal Ancestry, volume 4, page 222, Nevers line; Peter Stewart, post to SGM, 28 Jan 2003. Stewart quotes an early SGM post, from William Addams Reitwiesner pm 23 May 2002, summarizing Herbert Furman Seversmith's argument against identifying these two men as a single individual: "First is the chronology, as the English Reginald was born about 1125, while the French Reginald's parents were married around 1095. Second is their personal characters, the French Reginald being a glorified bandit while the English Reginald escaped the notice of any chroniclers, and is known only through charters. Third is their social status, the French Reginald being a nephew of the Count of Odessa and having a daughter who married a son of the King of France (who took her name of Courtenay), while the English Reginald was only the lord of a not very large manor, not a baron, and not even a knight. The fourth is that there is no actual evidence to support the suggestion that they were the same person -- the connection was made by Cleaveland in his 1735 Courtenay genealogy and has been repeated uncritically ever since."

      The identity of his wife is not known with certainty.

  • Sources 
    1. [S142] Royal Ancestry, by Douglas Richardson. Kimball G. Everingham, ed. 2013.

    2. [S49] Genealogics, by Leo Van de Pas.

    3. [S3226] Peter Stewart, 28 Jan 2003, post to soc.genealogy.medieval.