Nielsen Hayden genealogy
Renaud de Courtenay
- 1161-
Name Renaud de Courtenay [1] Gender Male Death 1161 [2] Person ID I8146 Ancestry of PNH, TNH, and others | Ancestor of AP, Ancestor of DDB, Ancestor of DGH, Ancestor of DK, Ancestor of EK, Ancestor of JMF, Ancestor of JTS, Ancestor of LD, Ancestor of LDN, Ancestor of LMW, Ancestor of TNH, Ancestor of TSW, Ancestor of TWK, Ancestor of UKL, Ancestor of WPF Last Modified 29 Nov 2023
Father Miles de Courtenay d. Aft 24 May 1138 Mother Elisabeth de Nevers, b. Bef 1070 Marriage Abt 1095 [3] Family ID F15325 Group Sheet | Family Chart
Children + 1. Elisabeth de Courtenay d. Aft 1205 Family ID F4965 Group Sheet | Family Chart Last Modified 8 Jun 2019
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Notes - Complete Peerage's chart on page 317 of volume 4 identifies this Renaud de Courtenay as the father of Reynold de Courtenay who married Hawise and died in 1194, but as far as we can determine, this Renaud and that Reynold's father are different individuals. References: Richardson, Royal Ancestry, volume 2, p. 314, Courtenay line; Richardson, Royal Ancestry, volume 4, page 222, Nevers line; Peter Stewart, post to SGM, 28 Jan 2003. Stewart quotes an early SGM post, from William Addams Reitwiesner on 23 May 2002, summarizing Herbert Furman Seversmith's argument against identifying these two men as a single individual: "First is the chronology, as the English Reginald was born about 1125, while the French Reginald's parents were married around 1095. Second is their personal characters, the French Reginald being a glorified bandit while the English Reginald escaped the notice of any chroniclers, and is known only through charters. Third is their social status, the French Reginald being a nephew of the Count of Odessa and having a daughter who married a son of the King of France (who took her name of Courtenay), while the English Reginald was only the lord of a not very large manor, not a baron, and not even a knight. The fourth is that there is no actual evidence to support the suggestion that they were the same person -- the connection was made by Cleaveland in his 1735 Courtenay genealogy and has been repeated uncritically ever since."
The identity of his wife is not known with certainty.
- Complete Peerage's chart on page 317 of volume 4 identifies this Renaud de Courtenay as the father of Reynold de Courtenay who married Hawise and died in 1194, but as far as we can determine, this Renaud and that Reynold's father are different individuals. References: Richardson, Royal Ancestry, volume 2, p. 314, Courtenay line; Richardson, Royal Ancestry, volume 4, page 222, Nevers line; Peter Stewart, post to SGM, 28 Jan 2003. Stewart quotes an early SGM post, from William Addams Reitwiesner on 23 May 2002, summarizing Herbert Furman Seversmith's argument against identifying these two men as a single individual: "First is the chronology, as the English Reginald was born about 1125, while the French Reginald's parents were married around 1095. Second is their personal characters, the French Reginald being a glorified bandit while the English Reginald escaped the notice of any chroniclers, and is known only through charters. Third is their social status, the French Reginald being a nephew of the Count of Odessa and having a daughter who married a son of the King of France (who took her name of Courtenay), while the English Reginald was only the lord of a not very large manor, not a baron, and not even a knight. The fourth is that there is no actual evidence to support the suggestion that they were the same person -- the connection was made by Cleaveland in his 1735 Courtenay genealogy and has been repeated uncritically ever since."
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Sources - [S142] Royal Ancestry: A Study in Colonial and Medieval Families by Douglas Richardson. Salt Lake City, 2013.
- [S49] Genealogics by Leo Van de Pas, continued by Ian Fettes and Leslie Mahler.
- [S3226] Peter Stewart, 28 Jan 2003, post to soc.genealogy.medieval.
- [S142] Royal Ancestry: A Study in Colonial and Medieval Families by Douglas Richardson. Salt Lake City, 2013.