Your friend's best bet is probably to try her name or userid on Google along with "site:absolutewrite.com", and see what they have cached (click on the "Cached" links, not the page titles). That should be done as soon as possible, before Google notices that the originals are gone.

I've got nothing but positive things to say about Speakasy.net's service, FWIW. I believe they're up to hosting AW from a technical standpoint and they seem to be very cool, competent folks, so they may be worth talking to.

If you find yourself in the position of constantly having to defend your work to your peers, you should probably consider asking whether they have a point. (They may not. It is possible that you [meaning the impersonal you, which really means "one" but I'm being informal here] are such a maverick, so misunderstood, and so misrepresented that absolutely nobody understands you. History does have its share of misunderstood geniuses. But it has a greater share of dishonest scammers.)

Would writing JC-Hosting accomplish anything? AW's been a godsend resource, giving me a place to send the hopefuls who call the editorial hotline looking for advice on how to write their novels.

One glitch occurred a year or two ago when they had to rename a computer. Apparently they use randomly generated letters to name them (or something), and I ended up on a host that had the word Sierra Echo Xray* in it, and apparently some other customers didn't like that. It took a little work to make sure all my stuff pointed to the right destination. fairly smooth since then, though.

*I spell phonetically because Making Light rejected my post and I'm not sure why.

"I use site5 dot com"

oop. no. It didn't like an actual dot

"the word SEX in the machine name"

false alarm...

I haven't had the time to read the boards there for a while, but it was a great resource and a lot of good people posted there. I hope it's up again soon.

It was definitely a horrible overreaction, however. I certaintly hope they can find new hosting quickly.

Jenna is very appreciative of everyone's concern and wants to reassure all that the site will be back ASAP.

Look for AW's returning within the next 24-48 hours. We'll keep everyone updated.

If you visit AW's main page -- www.absolutewrite.com -- there's a link to the forums where our peeps are gathering in the meantime.

Thanks for keeping people updated for us, TNH.

~Lori aka Birol

I swear by them. They have always been fair with me and the price can't be beat.

Loosing the Great PA thread is a tragedy.

Loosing Jim Macdonald's thread is a crime against humanity.

I hope a new host can be found soon, and the majority of the data recovered. I refuse to believe that -all- of it is just... gone.

May Barbara Bauer rot in literary Hades for her perfidy!

I can recommend my excellent webhost, JaguarPC. It looks like the Longhorn hosting plan will fit AW's requirements, though they might want to upgrade to a semi-dedicated account. I've had good results with their customer service, and I would suggest alerting the owner to the possibility of scamming idiots trying to shut them down for speaking the truth.

Aaaargh. This is like watching GEnie SFRT go down all over again.

They responded by taking down the entire domain, rather than dealing with the specific issue.

They gave their client an hour to retrieve not only the database for the forum, but all data.

They did this in response to a telephone call.

Note that the DMCA has nothing at all to do with the kind of content Bauer objected to.

Even if it did, there are specfic measures and procedures to follow--procedures the J. C. Hosting didn't follow, even though they had contact with people who explained this to them.

Note as well that J. C. Hosting lacks a TOS statement, a DMCA compliance statement, or a Privacy statement.

And that nothing said about Bauer on Absolute Write was false; it was all true. And none of it violated copyright.

Thanks for posting this, or else I may have never learned what happened.

I should say that by going to AbsoluteWrite.com, there is a placeholder page saying the site will be back within 24 hours. I hope that's the case.

Honestly, the whole thing sorely tempts me to call Bauer directly (Sign #143 that she's a phony: She puts her phone number on her webpage) just to harass her a little, but I get the impression she exerts a lot more energy being crazy than she does selling books.

Sam Edward Xray

Sugar Easy X-ray

Sugar Edward Xerxes

Samuel Emil Xanthippe

It seems that X has always been a problem with these things, but otherwise it's as easy as Ack, Beer, Charlie.

1&1's developer package, which I use, is $20/month and features 150gb of space, 1.5tb of transfer volume and the capacity for 100 MySql databases.

Hell, if money is an issue for AbsoluteWrite, I could probably host it myself, via my own developer account. I've got space.

We use Hosting Matters (http://hostmatters.com). They're technically competent, they know what kind of harrassment they need to deal with and what kind they can ignore, and they have highly affordable plans that could easily handle AW's needs.

This means WAR!

(Disclaimer for rotten agents spying on this thread: This statement in no way endorses physical threats on Barbara Bauer's person or attempts to cause physical harm to her. War is being used in a purely metaphorical sense to denote a struggle to publish our side of the story on the Internet.)

As far as another host goes, I've been very happy with dreamhost. They're very reliable, customer service has been pretty good, and the price is great. Even the lowest plan is well above absolutewrite's needs, and they expand their servces constantly.

http://www.totalweb-inc.com/contact.html

I did not state that they're gettiing more negative publicity than they could dream of about the whole thing.

She spent a good portion of the post-midnight hours researching hosts last night. She has selected one based on her research, which included contacting her top choices. The data, including the forums, is believed safe.

I will let her know about the offers for technical assistance.

Thanks all. Your concern for AW is heartwarming.

TNH, I hope it is alright that I'm responding here?

At this point, I find myself unable to remember if Stephanie went by "MoonShadow" or "MoonDancer."

I'm Jenna's co-administrator at AbsoluteWrite and one of her employees as well. I post on the forums as ChunkyC. We did indeed manage to retrieve all our sql databases before the plug was pulled. It's only a matter of time -- and making sure we're bright-eyed and bushy-tailed while we do the work -- before we'll be back in business.

On behalf of Jenna and everyone at AW, thank you all so much for for your support. It means the world to us.

A little time experiencing real nato acronyms teaches encoding skills. Abhor reducable entries. Grant obfuscated oddities deviously.

I want to add that Hasweb is a GREAT ISP. I've never had a problem, they are cheap, give good support, and can do lots of things.

i posted all my stuff there. its just gotta be there.

I hate seeing somebody get results by yelling and screaming and being abusive to people who don't deserve the abuse. That, I think, is the worst part of this whole mess for me. Dr. Bauer has now learned she can get (at least temporary) results from throwing a large enough fit. She's not the sort of person I want getting that kind of positive reinforcement.

Because of the size and then-activity level of our forums, we had three host changes within six months. It's always good to have a back-up host selected.

I do hope Jenna and gang inform their new ISP of what had happened, in case it's attempted again.

I'm hoping that the ultimate result of Barbara Bauer's temper tantrum will be many more new writers warned away from her.

And I second the 'countersuit' motion. As I understand it (IANAL), this case certainly meets the criteria for a legitimate lawsuit. The site being pulled probably cost AW money in advertizing, not to mention money in time spent finding a new host and getting everything up and running again. And they can certainly make a slander case on the grounds that Bauer's actions cost them a business relationship.

In light of the positive results Whazzerface gave to Barbara Bauer, you can be certain that it will be attempted again.

Bauer has a history of this kind of nonsense, too. Bank on more attempts.

Best wishes to Jenna and the other AWers trying to deal with this -- I'm so sorry for everything you guys have been through.

Insomnicole on AW.

Sam Edward Xray

Sugar Easy X-ray

Sugar Edward Xerxes

Samuel Emil Xanthippe

It seems that X has always been a problem with these things, but otherwise it's as easy as Ack, Beer, Charlie.

Wrong code. You want an old British WWII code if you want to be subtle.

A for Horses
B for Mutton
C for th'ilanders
D for mation
E for brick
F for vescence
...
X for th
Y for heavens sake
Z for effect

It apparently gave German codebreakers nightmares - particularly as it was obvious that there was no codebook. (May be an urban myth that it was used against the Germans). There are, of course, many versions of this code.

Although masterful, acronymic zeal indicates nuttiness, Greg!

Be rightly awarded voluntary ovation!

-=Jeff=-

Fine time for her to suddenly get scrupulous about legalities.

I've been on the phone to my friend who's lost a book's worth or more of her writing, if the AW message base isn't saved. Scouring Google Cache has yielded her about three hundred posts, and it's obvious that many major pieces are missing.

She's desolate, of course. Writers who've lost their writing are like that.

I'm mad as hell at Stephanie, and Barbara Bauer, but I'm also furious at the Digital Millennium Copyright Act. Lisa Spangenberg is right about JC Hosting acting wrongly; but the DMCA primarily exists, not as a set of rules, but as a reason for service providers to be constantly afraid of finding themselves in violation of those rules. It leads them to take ill-judged, cruel, and stupid actions.

And a word about sex: there ought not be any content-based blocking on this site. If you're getting messages to that effect, post them here.

Now it's been *censored*. And not by the gov't, or the military, or a powerful corporation, but by a gallingly inept scam artist.

Googlebomb her to the level of "miserable failure", say I.

I suck at backing up my harddrive. The fear of losing years and years of work has been insufficient to get me to start a burn-cd-and-file-away-safely habit, so two months ago I bought an ethernet based, raid-5 drive, with a terabyte+ of storage. It's the size of a shoebox, and contains four separate harddrives for raid-ing the data, and a linux brain to handle everything. If one drive ever craps out, I shut it down, order a new harddrive, insert the blank, hit a button, and it restores the drive. Another button will automatically backup data in a directory from that drive out to an external USB drive. I just got it up and running this weekend and will start pulling all my data over to it in the coming weeks. I've had a harddrive crap out on my previous systems about once every three years, so I got sick of all the hassle involed in recovery.

I hope the Karma train runs her over, backs up and runs her over again.

I wish Jenna all the best luck in finding a new host, and a smackdown from the Kharmic Hand of Fate to Stephanie and Barbara.

BetN

I believe, and f---ing hope, that truth still wins out over all else when it comes to such stuff. therefore, if said link was used in the context of stating an indisputable fact, such as

"Barbara Bauer(link) has been listed on SFWA's '20 Worst Agencies'"

then I believe reporting the fact is not a problem.

I am not a lawyer, although I beat one up on TV.

Teresa, if your friend has posted a book's worth of wisdom at the Cooler, I have undoubtedly benefitted from her wisdom more than once. I hope she doesn't lose heart.

This is ridiculous. Don't want crap to fall on you, don't be a scammer.

I say forward this information to as many writing communities as possible and let crap fall where it deserves.

Just go to absolutewrite.com and click on the link there.

Thanks, Charlie, for all that you do.

...in order to find out how bogus the original takedown threat was.

If anyone here ever gets any form of legal threat letter related to online activities, research in Chilling Effects first. A threat looks worse if you feel like you're alone in receiving it. If you need to make a change, you can learn where your responsibilities start and end. If the threat is wrong, you'll have better tools to counter it.

And always send a copy of the legal letter to them. Keeps everyone aware of the larger and smaller patterns in online legal threats- especially the bogus ones and the automated ones.

C.E.is run by the Electronic Frontier Foundation and multiple law schools, and as they summarize:

" Chilling Effects aims to help you understand the protections that the First Amendment and intellectual property laws give to your online activities. We are excited about the new opportunities the Internet offers individuals to express their views, parody politicians, celebrate their favorite movie stars, or criticize businesses. But we've noticed that not everyone feels the same way. Anecdotal evidence suggests that some individuals and corporations are using intellectual property and other laws to silence other online users. Chilling Effects encourages respect for intellectual property law, while frowning on its misuse to "chill" legitimate activity.

The website offers background material and explanations of the law for people whose websites deal with topics such as
Fan Fiction,
Copyright,
Domain Names and Trademarks,
Anonymous Speech, and
Defamation. "

AW is not dead it's just sleeping!

Witness the letter from Mastercard dealing with a "priceless" style joke:
http://www.chillingeffects.org/trademark/notice.cgi?NoticeID=17

And the response:
http://www.netfunny.com/rhf/jokes/01/Apr/mcrhf.html

"Web site hosting for anybody: $10/month and up

Threatening letters to people who satirize you, hoping
they won't know the law: $500

Reputation as giant corporation required to intimidate
small publishers: $billions

Supreme court decisions protecting parody and
satire from accusations of copyright and
trademark infringement... Priceless

There are some rights money can't buy. For everything else, there's Mastercard's lawyers."

Maybe if you're blogging about this, you'd like to use it too :-)

Perhaps this shows why I'm not a lawyer, but I thought that a DMCA takedown notice had to be in writing. Perhaps it was, but a phone call shouldn't trigger a takedown. Also, it doesn't take an advanced degree to know that spammers get your e-mail address by various means. Heck, when I changed ISP's last month I was getting spam at my freshly-minted address before the day was out.

I'd like to add my offer of technical help, and plan to blog about this.

part of me is wondering if "Stephanie is one of PublishAmerica's authors." may have contributed to the ease of take-downed-ness. But then, I can be a cynical bstrd sometimes.

I didn't hear about this part of the story though.

He also claimed that Bauer had nothing to do with the shutdown, but he couldn't explain why everywhere the woman went a trail of destruction followed. Coincidence, no doubt.

Bottom line: it all goes back to BB, and the Absolute Write ISP behaving unprofessionally, and stupidly. This is the kind of idiocy that earns hosting companies a really bad reputation; it's the kind of thing we talk about at IT and networking conferences and content and design conferences, and you can bet I'll be talking about this episode for quite a while. It's got all sorts of lesson potential for How To Be A Your Own Worse Enemy as an ISP.

He's lying.

2. "Stephanie is one of PublishAmerica's authors" false again she has never been involved with PublishAmerica

I could go on but I doubt that my post will stay for long as it is real easy to see that this group is not about truth its all about how big of a rumor can I start.

But instead, it looks like she has merely bought herself maybe sixty hours of time during which people looking for threads about her on AW will get error messages. And meanwhile, she has done something very public to annoy the entire online writing community. Multiplying online enemies is about the worst result you can get if you are trying to keep something about your operation a secret.

That lunatic--and we should give her a name they way the AW PublishAmerica thread gave one to the fellow we now call "Shemp"--has sent some incoherent e-mails to me. She's accused me of extortion and blackmail for posting that 20 Worst list on my site, along with a link to Writer Beware. She also demanded that I hand over your home address, number, along with that of several others on her **** list. (Yeah, surrrrre. Sheesh.)

Just in case my name crops up on the BB radar I've fired a mail off to my ISP host with a link to THIS page. I've asked to be assured that they won't shut my site down. "Shempett's" e-addy is not on it, but I like to be careful.

"Stephanie is one of PublishAmerica's authors."

Now that's scary. I recognize her AW name and am rather puzzled that she's wholly ignored the overwhelming bad press PA has gotten on their site.

It strikes me that there is something of a conflict of interest going on, and perhaps this was a convenient excuse to stick it to AW.

Shame-shame. Baaaad host! No cookie!

We'll have to get together in a few weeks and have beers and compare hate mail.

Oh, no, James. Your post will live on to embarrass you for years.

But since I have you here, how about you tell the real story of why you guys pulled the plug?

You say it had nothing to do with scam agent Barbara Bauer, PhD. I say you're lying.

Let's hear your story. And make it convincing.

I'm holding out for you, Jenna. (You're my forum hero, ma'am!)

Her blog is http://www.sgcordray.com/ and it doesn't mention it. (Though was she does mention is pretty suspicious for the tin-foil hat types like myself).

I have been wrong before, though.

Do you have any idea how much worse it will look if you claim that you pulled the plug on AW for no reason at all?

Do you really expect us to believe that on the very same day that Barbara Bauer called up and screamed at Stephanie, and that Stephanie posted in public that any web host would toss a site for less -- that on that very same day you just randomly pulled the plug on AW, and yet Barbara Bauer had nothing to do with it?

All my life I've been hearing the phrase, "scare the wits out of someone," but this is the first time I've actually seen it happen.

The DMCA has no relationship whatsoever to this contretemps. The DMCA relates only to copyright infringement, and I am not aware of any accusations of copyright infringement that have been made against AW. Copying someone's e-mail address is not a copyright infringement.

Thanks for letting us know about this, Teresa!

We're talking here about a couple of hosting-site proprietors who fell for BB's claim that specific instances of spam were traceable to one specific appearance of an e-mail address in an online venue. While I wouldn't take that as proof that they'd believe absolutely anything, it kinda comes close.

This is ABSOLUTELY correct.

Of the top 4 links related to BB, three are bad.

http://forums.writersweekly.com/viewtopic.php?t=2084

This thread was 3 years ago, and comes up #5 on an AOL search of Barbara Bauer Literary

I am truly sorry that you have been given false information on thi\ issue.

I wished I could give you more truth but at this time our lawyer has asked us to refrain from publicly speaking about this till he can gather all the information.

Thank you for your email and I am sure we will be getting in touch soon.

JamesC
Senior Internet Technology Adviser
Email: jamesc@totalweb-inc.com
ICQ# 49107171
Total Web-Inc Helping You Bring Your Business to the World

-----Original Message-----
From: allofus@srv02.jc-hosting.net
[mailto:allofus@srv02.jc-hosting.net]

Sent: Wednesday, May 24, 2006 11:33 AM
To: support@totalweb-inc.com
Subject: Information Request

***********************************************************
Name: Paula Helm Murray
Email: dragonet@kc.rr.com
Phone: 816-344-1341
Ecommerce:
Web_Design:
SEO:
Programming:
Hosting:
Scripting:
Consulting:
Other: Other Services
Send: Send
Remote Name: 65.23.42.2
HTTP User Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (Macintosh; U; PPC Mac OS X; en)
AppleWebKit/312.8 (KHTML, like Gecko) Safari/312.6
Date: Wednesday, May 24, 2006
Time: 11:32:58 AM

details:

Shutting down AbsoluteWrite on the call of one offended person's threats without checking them deeper is an outrage. You should let people know on your FRONT PAGE that you are willing to do this. If you'd looked,you would have learned that Barbara Bauer IS a known dishonest literary agent, she takes people's money, and hopes and dreams, and gives them nothing. And she's crude and nasty when she's confronted about it.

Shame on you!

http://www.useless-knowledge.com/1234/06may/article201.html

Argile Stox

That is majorly self-contradictory, because I can't think of anything that there isn't someone who would object to.

There are people who object to mentioning homosexuality, there are people who object to mentioning heterosexuality, there are people who object to celibacy, there are people who object to people leaving out all sexual content. "Catch-22" is minor in comparison, because, again, what is there that there isn't someone who would object to? "The French hate the Germans and the Germans hate the Pole..."

As to what that has to do with the subject at hand, if the ISP had terms like Verizon's... what is moral and decent and ethical to do, and what the contract terms are, are in the world run by Republicraps like the late Sonny Bono and the slime who pushed through DMCA (personally I feel that his gravestone deserves to be stained yellow/brown...] entirely different matters.

The website going down is just one more piece of "what free country? It's totalitarian tyranny land, and freedom of expression and speech have been effectively abrogated."

If AW was any sort of business, could the ISP be held responsible for lost revenue because of their shut-down?

Could BB be held responsible?

(I wish!)

I look forward to seeing the SFWA list as the first page when you Google Barbara Bauer.

Good company, skilled professional ISP, runs Debian Linux and more free goodies than you can shake a stick at even with the basic plan (basically, damn near everything you could want for a website that comes with an open source license, starting with LAMP and going from there.). I've been with them for quite a few years now, always been happy with their service. It keeps getting better every year.

Customer support is good, responsive, tech-savvy, and doesn't dumb it down if you let them know you are tech-savvy. Bandwidth allowance is huge.
They have a sensible, tolerant TOS, which was why I picked them in the first place, over several other cheap hosting services.

I'm anxious to see Absolute Write back up again. I've learned so much from Uncle Jim's writing thread, and I refer people to it constantly.

http://misssnark.blogspot.com/

I take a dim view of scammers--my dear, lovely father gave my name to Vantage Press while I was in college and after I told him I was switching from pre-med to journalism. I know he didn't think it was spiteful, but the mail I got from them was just stupid. I started getting them when I was taking a book publishing class--one of our exercises was a 'read the contract, make one kind of underline for the publisher's requirements, make another kind of underline for the writer's requirements under the contract.' He was an honest man, at the time the Managing Editor of the U. Kan. Press, and knew that protecting the author meant respect for the publisher's works too.

It was very enlightening and made me very glad of Ms. Bradley's contracts. It also told me I should toss every single thing I got from Vantage into the garbage. They 'lost' me (oh darn) when I moved into Missouri from Kansas. (gee, oh, darn.)

Thanks, Teresa, for providing this info.

Just taking a suggestion from the story's suggestions for spreading the word: http://www.kuro5hin.org/story/2006/5/25/02548/8796

Cheers
-janra

Paula, nowadays in D&D you're dead at negative 10 hit points. At 0 HP you're just knocked unconscious and basically start bleeding until you reach negative 10 or another player character comes to your aid.

Looks like I'm going with Dreamhost - I'm glad to see more glowing recommendations here.

I really didn't expect this kind of harassment to work in the real world of paid-for ISP providers -- had thought I was just unlucky, last year, to be hosted by a university whose authorities were both spineless and gullible. Still, Ansible continues elsewhere and the incident earned me an extra Wikipedia mention....

Sorry, this is getting egocentric. Fingers crossed for AbsoluteWrite's rapid return!

Being a paid-for ISP doesn't protect from the management going into headless chicken mode. Demon were, for a week or two, frightened enough to be unreliable.

Never heard of anyone dumping them: they offer great service, have good administration with great policies, are geek-friendly but not geek-mandatory, and are vastly pro-freedom-of-speech. I think they pride themselves on NOT pulling this kind of scheisse.

I've been happy enough with them that I'm about to move my fourth site there. I've dealt with two of the other big providers over the past two years, and I wouldn't recommend either of them to my worst enemy.

So I'm going to post about it on my LiveJournal, and spread the word some more. I'll also be linking to a couple of different copies of the "20 Worst Agents" list. (Does anyone know whether something like that has been done for the Australian market? If so, where - I'll link to that too!).

I believe this falls under the heading of fighting fire with fire - and the fire in this case is word-of-mouth.

Note to all: there's a further addendum in the main post concerning Stephanie and her guy James.

Man, talk about bad timing.

On a side note, this dust-up has been great for judging the relative merits of the different blog-tracking sites. IceRocket has performed very well. Technorati is definitely back in contention, like a misbehaving sweetheart you can't help but be glad to see again, even though you suspect it'll grieve you again in the future. The big loser is Blogpulse, which of late has been subsiding into torpid uselessness, and over the last several days has been so inert that it has yet to register a single one of the google-bombing posts. That's especially bad considering how many of them are on LJ sites, which was always Blogpulse's strong suit.

Did I read that whole bstrdzd, interrelated, conflict-of-interest, history correctly???

cripes! I need hip waders and a shovel, stat!

I do recall that those posts named Bauer directly, that they claimed DMCA complaints, and specifically mentioned the email address (cannoliq@msn.com) as the point of contention.

It is to laugh!
-r.

On another note, I've been collecting all the links to posts about this mess so that others can easily link to each other's posts about Barbara Bauer, increasing the google power of each post.

I can't wait to see what happens when the googlebots get done with all of us...

Results for "Barbara Bauer"

Sara (aka: saritams8, AW Mod)

A straight search on google is similar.

I wonder what it would take to bump her own site from the #1 slot. Need more links. Or as one of my favorite headlines says:

"Dogpile on the scam artist"

Once again let me thank you all for your support. I will be attempting to get the forums up and running within a few hours. Cross your fingers....

Years ago, I liked lurking on AW and found it to be a great site especially for novices.

This whole incident exemplifies what I like about this particular community. The outpouring of support for AW is amazing. I can only offer moral support since I'm not a techie geek or legal geek (just a plain ol' geek).

Loves, life, beer and rampaging googlebombs. If that doesn't define community, I don't know what does.

Online hell knows no fury like a writer scorned!

The hosting industry is primarily composed of 'resellers', these folks often don't own any equipment and are effectively white labeling. IMO they're more vulnerable to strong-arming.

Stephanie is most likely a reseller. Resellers are more likely pull something like what you've seen. They often don't have legal resources, nor much experience in dealing with such threats, and can be very unprofessional. It's simply a hobby business for a lot of them.

Larger hosting concerns see this sort of thing all the time and have protocols for dealing with it, these entail an actual investigation - i.e. they won't just freak-out a pull your site. You wouldn't believe how many people think that they have a right to cleanse the web of sites they don't like. Most are quacks and are dealt with accordingly.
---------------------------
If you want to avoid the potential for these sorts of incidents, be sure to do appropriate due diligence on your host, get their policies in writing and inquire on specific potential scenarios.

My recommendation is to look for a well established 'primary' host OR lease a VPS, then you can run your own server and the quacks will have to deal with you directly.

.

I lurked here all day yesterday, but was too PO'd to post civilly. Today, I lay some Google fuses.

Oh, wait, I do subscribe to a bunch of email lists that are archived on publicly accessible webpages. I feel a new email signature coming on....

Greg
----

Barbara Bauer makes Write Beware's Worst Agencies List
http://www.sfwa.org/beware/twentyworst.html

Time to catch up on some old acquaintances...

Would anyone care to take some of this discussion to http://webhostingtalk.com? It's a major forum site about webhosts.

I hope so, I'm going through withdrawal symptoms!

I also blogged this on my site. I wonder if I can get the local news/troubleshooter team interested in this. I live in the DC area, and if I'm not mistaken (and please someone correct me if I am) PA is located in Frederick, about 1/2 hour up the road from me.

This is covered in the initial post, fourth paragraph, and followed up throughout the thread. (I'm not scolding; it isn't a short thread.)

At the very least, the 20 Worst List could be mentioned on the wikipedia entry for SFWA. I see they already mention Atlanta Nights there.

But here's the thing that's odd. The web site for the Department of English for St. John's lists the degrees offered, and they do not offer the Ph.D. -- just an MA and something called a D.A., which I've never heard of. Now, maybe St. John's offered a Ph.D. in 1979 and has dropped the program. But I wonder. Anyone in the NYC area might consider wandering over to the St. John's library to see what Bab's dissertation was about, if there is one, because the library would keep them all, even if never published.

Just a wicked thought.

Chris Johnson (AW as ColoradoGuy)

When the dust settles, I'll wipe off that Newbie post and try to make myself worthy of joining this wonderful, talented and supportive community - and wear my rejection letters from legitimate agents with pride.

If this was a response to my question, perhaps I should have phrased it better.

A gentleman from the hosting company responded to Paula Helm Murray (posted above) that she had been given false information, but he doesn't explain their rationale for pulling the site. What is their current explanation as to why they did it?

Cautela, D'angelo, D'agostino and Di Donato: the Achievement of First and Second Generation Italian-American Writers of the New York Region by Barbara Gae Bauer.

So, no, I don't think she was lying about that.

http://web.archive.org/web/*/http://www.absolutewrite.com

Most recent: http://web.archive.org/web/20050401092424/http://www.absolutewrite.com/
It has a lot of archived material from the site, but apparently nothign from this year...

(This is fun!)

Feh. My already low opinion of those jokers just sank lower. (Now playing Webhosting Limbo! How low can you go?)

iweb.ca has a very good reputation.

The power of this writing community to rally to the side of Good is a joy to behold.

Because hopeful young writers naturally think well of an agent who says, "I love your work."

Hopeful Young Writer finds a list somewhere of 4,928 literary agents (of whom perhaps 200 are legitimate), and starts sending out letters to all of them in alphabetical order.

Soon enough, responses come in. The first one to say "I love your work," becomes a Prince Among Men. Odds are the agent is a scammer, or gormless, or not-very-helpful.

Scammer: "I love your work."
Newbie: "Hurrah, hurrah, hurrah, I have an agent!"
Scammer: "Send me a thousand bucks."
Newbie: "Hurrah, hurrah, hurrah, I have an agent!" [writes check]
Scammer: "Now that I think of it, send two."
Newbie: "Hurrah, hurrah, hurrah, I have an agent!" [writes check]

I recommend that everyone buy a copy of Ten Percent of Nothing. Read it. When you're done, donate it to your local library so hopeful new writers may see it.

Title: Cautela, D’Angelo, D’Agostino and Di Donato: the achievement of first and second generation Italian-American writers of the New York region.
Author: Bauer, Barbara.
Publisher: 1979.
Description: xiii, 172 p.

Library/Database: St. John's University Libraries
Location: Queens - Thesis - Reserve
Call Number: 79 Bau Bau
Status: Available

Library/Database: St. John's University Libraries
Location: Queens - Thesis Microfilm - 2nd Periodicals
Call Number: 79 Bau
Status: Available

Now this is the way things should work in a perfect world.

Big bully Babs doesn't like the publicity of her name on Write America, so she plays dirty pool and threatens the provider.

GOAL: Clear/protect her name and rep, and keep anyone else from seeing it.

After a (very brief) apparent initial success the underdog community rallies to WA's defense.

END RESULTS: Her name and rep get trailed through the e-realms like entrails by a pack of wolves.
The list she wishes no one to see gets lit up by the flashing of google-bombs so that right this very minute little purple men from Saturn's rings are reading the Twenty WORST List. and,
Best of All,
Her semi-nemesis Write America has risen from the ashes like a phoenix, garnering more publicity, more positive PR stock, and more, newer readers.

Ah, I love a happy ending!

Regarding Nancy Lebovitz's post:

(This relates back to the thread several months ago about lawsuits, and the attempts to draft legislation to prevent them.)

The one pro-lawsuit thing I don't recall havng heard (at least recently) is the reminder that the "chilling fog of fear, uncertainty, and doubt" that comes with legal action was used successfully (and still is) by big corporations and the like long before the average American was able to file a class action suit. Corporations routinely took/take the attitude of "If you don't like it tough! We've got more money than you and we've got more lawyers than you." And (as this case shows) it is not just the "little guy" who resorts to legal tactics. Corporations and the wealthy have used the threat of legal action to cow "the little guy" for years.

Funny how they don't like it when the little guy picks up their clup and starts hitting them with it.

To react the way Stephanie did is the most immature thing I've ever experienced either in real life or on the internet. I hope she and Barbara enjoy each other's company; they deserve one another.

Thanks to everyone who's working their collective tails off to get AW back up and running again. And thanks to Teresa and Patrick for hosting us AW refugees & keeping us so well informed. Most importantly, bless you for supporting the cause!!

Ahem. It... err... doesn't? ;)

A suggestion for all you google-bombers, by the way. On my results searching for "barbara bauer", the SFWA list is quite a long way down. The copy of it and article about her here on Making Light is higher up, so would be easier to displace her with. So your Barbara Bauer links would be better off like that one. I think if you do both, google will count both, whereas if you do the same one twice, google will only count it once. So everyone should be doing both.

This cynical gouch is feeling slightly more hopeful about mankind... ;)

it will be curious to see if Barbara threatens wikipedia with the DMCA. Kind of makes you wonder just how deep a hole she is willing to dig herself into.

http://www.witi.com/center/witimuseum/halloffame/2005/bbauer.php

Good thing she's in a wholly different industry...because she appears to be quite an accomplished person.

"Barbara Bauer. Barbara Bauer. Vice President Software Engineering & Development, Sun Microsystems (profile at the time of induction in 2005) ..."

No need to go to the University where she supposedly got her Ph.D. Just log onto University Microforms. All Ph.D. dissertations are sold
by them. I just looked -- no one by that name has a disseration there.

http://dancingguy.livejournal.com/54499.html

AUTELA, D'ANGELO, D'AGOSTINO AND DI DONATO: THE ACHIEVEMENT OF FIRST AND SECOND GENERATION ITALIAN-AMERICAN WRITERS OF THE NEW YORK REGION.. BAUER, BARBARA GAE, PhD. ST. JOHN'S UNIVERSITY, 1979. 191 pp.

Don't ever change.

In a weird way it reminds me of kids complaining about doing homework; if Barbara took the same amount of effort she spends on trying to hide the fact she's a terrible agent and spent it on becoming a real agent...

The way I figure it, any publicity for BB right now is bad publicity for her.

Lunar Pages

They have a plan of like $7/month which includes 400 Gb of transfer per month.

The way I figure it, any publicity for BB right now is bad publicity for her. "

I agree, except Wikipedia isn't meant to be a forum for publicity--good or bad. It's supposed to be an encyclopedia.

I think an awful lot of internet providers don't really understand much about the DMCA. They probably heard about the Ellison v. Robertson lawsuit (189 F.Supp.2d 1051, 2002 Copr.L.Dec. P28,420, 62 U.S.P.Q.2d 1170) back several years ago, and panic when the Act is invoked. Anyone interested in the actual case can use the cite here to find it. But the upshot of that case was that author Harlan Ellison sued AOL in 2000, alleging that the company violated the DMCA by allowing unauthorized copies of his works to appear on Usenet servers for two weeks. The suit originally named the fan who scanned the works, as well as the newsgroup host, but both other parties settled, leaving AOL as the only defendant. The Judge ruled that AOL was protected by DMCA from liability to an author so long as the disputed content was removed when the ISP is notified. But as C.E. posted earlier, it was a PLAGIARISM issue in that suit--copyrighted material had been scanned and posted. There aren't any copyright issues related to an email address that I'm aware of presently, but things change every day.

It might be worthwhile for an IP (intellectual property) attorney to write up an article about how the DMCA applies to ISPs and publish it in their trade magazines (C.E., are you listening...?)

I do find it deplorable that a professional internet provider, even a reseller, would take a single threat and summarily remove an entire domain rather than work with the owner to determine both sides of the issue. And the hour notice to save the entire database was particularly disturbing. That smacks of near-malicious intent, since few domains, even for corporations, have 24-hour techs on duty. It's just lucky someone was around to receive the notice, or bad, bad things could have happened.

BTW--Charlie, if the new ISP doesn't work out, I've been really pleased with Blue Domino/Coffeecup as our host. They have sufficient size to handle pretty much anything AW might need, and the costs are reasonable.

~Nancy

I'll leave it to the wiki-lords to debate it's "encyclopedic notability". There are definitely articles about far more obscure crap.

Perhaps the most extreme case I know of of intellectual property legal tangles, was Texas Istruments vs Japan Inc. TI perserved for literally 30 years in Japan in the court system them, charging patent infringement on some of the most basic microcircuitry transistor patents. TI was fortunate enough to be large enough and financially stable enogh to be able to afford the lawyers and expenses and loss of productivity of technically cognizant people, to fight the lawsuit through the Japanese court system, for 30 years. The final results was that TI won in all instances, and all the Japanese companies involved in making semiconductors and microcircuits, had to pay Texas Instruments licensing fees for the next two decades or so, on each chip made, and pay damages also I think. The revenue to TI is in at least the hundreds of millions of dollars per year, on patents that have expired in the rest of the world. Japan Inc. back three and a half decades ago figured that TI would give up and go away, rather than fight it out and spend a very large fortune on lawyers, lost productivity time from employees, fatigue, discouragement, etc. The cost/benefit equation to Japan Inc was that if TI had given up, that was hundreds of millions of dollars that Japanese companies wouldn't be paying in royalties to TI, that instead would mean charging lower prices to customers for parts than companies paying the licensing fees, and that would mean more business and fatter profits and more money for R&D etc., for Japan Inc. companies. Most businesses didn't have the combination of financial resources, determination, and long-term strategy to be willing to commit to a decades-long battle with the Japanese corporate infrastructure, Japanese culture, and the Japanese government and to stay committed until the matter got all the way through the court system in Japan.

There are lots of stories in the USA of companies which went bankrupt trying to fight off a lawsuit of no real merit, either going bankrupt in the process of trying to fight, or going bankrupt even though -winning- the lawsuit.

I have a relative who was in the infuriating situation of having Hughes Aircraft Company competing against the small defense contractor he was a partner in the ownership of, with Hughes infringing on his patents in its proposals, and Hughes winning the contracts... Hughes of course had the high-paid expensive corporate lawyers, and fighting off a business a few orders of magnitude larger, which also had political support...

I do apologize!

These people really, were, well, too naive to believe.

The way I see it, an encyclopedia should contain any and all factual information that somebody might find useful. It's only the limits of the distribution and organisation methods traditionally used that have caused them to describe the most important subjects in shallow detail in the past. Wikipedia's limits are different, and articles like these do not really detract from the rest of it, while making it actively more useful for the small minority who find them helpful.

At least, that's the way I thought about it when I starting helping out with the PA article. The BB article was more of a response to Greg's comment than anything else, but I feel the same reasoning applies.

She, in context of the larger issue of publishing scams, is newsworthy enough. However, the article is a disconnected point and it doesn't yet have the necessary NPOV- neutral point of view.

See Publish America as an example.

These people really, were, well, too naive to believe.

Yeah, but people agree to things they don't fully grasp everyday---obligated doesn't equal "understood" in too many cases. Sigh... But I agree.

After all, how is this different from Stephanie saying she's pulling AW's plug because she got a nasty phone call from Osama bin Laden, except that people will believe the Bauer story more easily? Hell, maybe the Bauer story is true, but that doesn't make it less convenient.

So this nofollow stuff may be an undeservedly kind response--maybe we need a campaign to link SC and "Writing Wise" to the shoddy little plot that she used to get it started. Maybe JC hosting, Totalweb, and Mike C can get stuffed into the same slimy little nexus with her. Chutzpah disguised as spinelessness shouldn't go unpunished.

Coincidence??? :)

I haven't finished reading all the comments, so I don't know if this is being done: the site could be backed up (realtime) to a shadow site, so if the ISP takes it down, the DNS pointer for the domain could be moved and the site would come back up instantly. I'll volunteer to host that; I have plenty of space and bandwidth available on my colo box. I also have the typical nanae attitude about cartooneys.

You have to register (free), yadda yadda yadda.

http://www.rogerjcarlson.com/forum/writerforum/forum_topics.asp?FID=13&PN=1

BTW, BB is out of Matawan, NJ (says so right on her site). Hubby pointed out that sometime during the early part of the last century, some sharks swam up a river to Matawan.

Interesting, hmm? ;-)

~Nancy

Guess they never swam back out again, huh? ;)

Stephanie and BB will get their just desserts, I am certain.

Coincidence??? :"

It also wasn't a coincidence that Barbara Bauer blew her fuse a day or two after both me and Jim Macdonald posted extremely unflattering descriptions of her (more me than Jim, he just noted she was a fraudulent agent). Jenna herself confirmed my suspicions: my post was the OTHER reason Barbara Bauer tried to shut down AW. When she requested that Jenna remove my post along with Jim's, Jenna rightfully and stubbornly (as all writers naturally are and should be like) refused. From Queen Jenna herself:

"Don't feel guilty. Not your fault. I refused to take down your message, and Jim's. I'm a stubborn thing that way. ;)"

Basically, my offending post was this: a form of Google-bombing, in text form. I can't remember all of it word-for-word though. It commented on how it isn't illegal to post someone else's email address, how Barbara Bauer isn't exactly a helpless citizen being victimized by an unscrupolous email address poster who did it with malicious intent, and Barbara Bauer is a scammer. It went a little something like this:

"... But if it's a scam agent named Barbara Bauer, Ph.D., who runs a scam literary agency called The Barbara Bauer Literary Agency which is a scam (yes, I repeat, The Barbara Literary Agency run by Barbara Bauer, Ph.D., is a scam), and who's mad that she, Barbara Bauer, Ph.D. of The Barbara Bauer Literary Agency, was Writer Beware selected her for their Top 20 Worst Literary Agents List (yep, that's right, The Barbara Bauer Literary Agency run by Barbara Bauer, Ph.D., is one of Writer Beware's Top 20 Worst Literary Agencies) and who's mad that Ann and Victoria have exposed her, that is, Barbara Bauer, Ph.D. of the Barbara Bauer Literary Agency, and her, that is, Barbara Bauer, Ph.D. of the Barbara Bauer Literary Agency's shady business practices..."

I feel partly responsible for this fiasco. My post is probably what provoked her anger that later made her explode about the posting of her email address. Knowing how short her fuse is, I believe she thought I was calling her out. I suppose I was kind of doing that, but it was intended to be more about how Google would find my post when I wrote, "Come on, Barbara Bauer, Ph.D., I will personally make sure Google finds this thread and puts it on the first page of search results when someone searches for 'Barbara Bauer' or 'Barbara Bauer, Ph.D.' or 'Barbara Bauer Literary Agency' or 'Barbara Bauer scam.'"

I basically made her fuse blow up whatever was in her path. I personally hate and loath her for it now. I told the truth about her, and she goes and blows up my house (my online one, that is). I am now on a personal vendetta against her and we are all at war with her. You can't just blow up my (online) house and expect to get away with it unscathed, unpunished, and unfleeced for paying damages (although the AW main site is back up and the forums are about to also, though it will be very costly). Oh no, Barbara, this isn't how I or anyone else plays your little game of empty threats and vicious lies. Ladies and gentlemen, boys and girls, writers and non-writers, editors and agents, bloggers of all ages, IT'S ON!

[Edited out confrontational word-play]

http://www.rogerjcarlson.com/forum/writerforum/default.asp

I will not spam this site with a link as I really do not know if the owner would like that information being passed around on this site.

Thank you for your time.

This in from Jenna & Charlie: The forums are currently not functioning, but they are working like mad to restore them. Regardless of whether the old forums can be restored or not, the Water Cooler will rise from the ashes. They also are continuing to work on gaining access to the data. We will keep you updated as more information is known.

Although Jenna has not had much free time to speak to everyone while she has been working on rebuilding, she has been very touched by the shows of support and offers of assistance she has received.

As always, cascade the word.

Thanks all. You are AW.

"I'm given to understand that some of AW's message base was lost."

What you said:

"1. "AW's message base was lost" false the data base is intact."

What the fact is:

You shut down all access to the files before AW was able to complete a backup. Lost to them is "lost." Even if you still had a copy. That it seems now that you were forced to cough up those files doesn't change the truth of the original statement. As of right now the forums still aren't back; there's some doubt if they can actually be restored.

Want to talk some more about "this group is not about truth"?

Hot news tip for JamesC: posting a link isn't spamming.

I'm not going to go searching around your site. If you have something relevant (and truthful would be nice too), post a link. If you have something to say that you actually want anyone to see, put it here. Y'see, if you put it here you won't be able to delete or alter it later to suit your new story, whatever that story turns out to be.

By the way, in case you actually are as slow on the uptake as you appear, I'm calling you a liar to your face.

Alan, you should be spanked :)

I'm not sure, but I think that might have been started by either Aconite or Aruna, one or the other (sometimes I confuse them because they both start with A and are female).

I thought I had an unpredictable temper, but no, she's worse, she starts volcanic eruptions when she's ticked off (which happens very often lately, I've noticed *cackles maniacally*).

I'd like to add my personal thanks to TNH, Roger, and everyone else who have hosted our refugees: Thank you.

Lisa, what you've suggested to JamesC is wise and practical. It's also the decent/honorable thing to do. It's not a challenge, either. It's the right thing to do. That's the difference.

Buy a copy of her book The Street Smart Writer. Donate it to your local library.

Okay, I've taken a stab at cleaning up the Wikipedia article (remember Neutral Point of View means don't call someone a jerk, just demonstrate it).

Some more general information would be welcome, such non-blog references (newspaper or magazine stories are good), bio information (such as DOB, birthplace, education, previous jobs), legal actions, career "highpoints", etc. You can add them to the article yourself, or drop me a line and I'll see what I can do with them.

I would not recommend them. In fact, I would recommend staying far, far away.

Here's the URL for finding old absolute write pages
http://web.archive.org/web/*/www.absolutewrite.com

The only bad thing is I don't see anything for 2006... still, there you go.

The DMCA is embodied in 17 USC Sect. 512 and Sect. 1201-1205.

Sections 1201-1205 do not really deal with copyright infringement, per se, but instead deal with the ability to break the lock on technical measures protecting material subject to copyright.

Sect. 1201(a) and (b) prohibit the bypass of access to material protected by copyright or from trafficiking in technology that enables persons to bypass access or break the lock on technical measures protecting copyright material.

Section 1202 concerns copyright management information (CMI).

Sections 1203-1205 concern remedies (civil and criminal) and other non-substantive issues.

Here, the attempt is to use sect. 512 as a hammer on the ISP.

Sect. 512 is a limitation on secondary liability for copyright infringement for ISPs that meet the qualifications defined in sect. 512(i).

Notably, and before one gets to the take down provisions of sect. 512, there MUST be a direct copyright infringement before an ISP can be threatened with an infringement suit based on secondary liability (contributory infringement). The posting of an email address is not a direct copyright infringement, thus, there is no secondary liability, and thus, no legitimate threat of suit.

In other words, the ISP has "safe harbor" without even needing to resort to the "safe harbor" provisions of sect. 512 and the take down provisions provided b/c there is no direct copyright infringement from which secondary liability can hang its hat from.

Now, is there a legitimate COA based on another theory (i.e. not the DMCA)? I do not have enough of the facts to know that, but there are potential theories that are much more accessible (if the facts support). But I'm not going to give Ms. Bauer free advice - let her pay her attorneys to find that information. I paid for it twice (when I got my JD and my LLM in IP).

ISPs need to better educate themselves (through attorneys) on the DMCA, specifically sect. 512, so that they do not get pressured or harrassed based on dubious legal theories asserted by allegedly aggrieved parties.

Hope someone enjoyed this info. :)

In a particularly Web 2.0 approach to this problem, I have done my part to spread the word about old Barb with the help of http://del.icio.us/ . Rather than post links to a blog (which I don't have) I have added Barbara's personal website to my bookmarks on the service, with tags attached such as "scam," "fraud," and "bad agent." Simultaneously, I have added the 20-Worst list and included "Barbara Bauer" among its tags. I encourage those ML readers who use del.icio.us or other social bookmarking services to join me on this front.

I've been lurking and reading for a while here at Making Light, always meaning to introduce myself and always backing away, intimidated. But I couldn't imagine a better time than now to jump into the discussion. T & PNH, Jim MacDonald, and all the wonderful members of the community: thanks.

I've got a del.icio.us collection on PublishAmerica, and one on Advice for Writers, but I'm going to start one on Literary Scams, and then one on BarbaraBauer.

I'll look into the new "shared" feature at Del.icio.us feature to see how others can add to the BarbabaBauer collection.

Thanks!

Buy a copy of her book The Street Smart Writer. Donate it to your local library.

I actually went into a Borders yesterday on my way to the doctor just to find that book, but the employee and I couldn't find the copy they had in before I had to leave. I'll definitely be buying it myself soon.

I made a Straight Dope thread on this situation: http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showthread.php?t=373194
If anyone notices any mistakes I made, please let me know so I can post a correction.

Teresa gave you some really good advice upthread. You should follow it, as you're just making you and your company look worse with everything you say.

As for Barbara Bauer, well, Internet Karma would seem to be much faster than the old kind . . .

Kendall (first-time poster, but been reading a little while now)

But I just feel very upset right now, to know that one person has the ability to silence several thousand individuals because she was offended by one post on a forum. It's heartbreaking, to say the least, as a great resource for writers seeking legitimate help in pursuing their writing aspirations, has been taken away.

I think this Barbara Bauer individual cares nothing for writers in general; if she did, she would not demand an entire site be taken down for the sake of one mention of her name. This is obviously someone worthy of the blacklists I've read she wanted AW's ISP put on. I hope she becomes the recipient of the said blacklist, and that she will never work as an agent again.

I was wondering what I could do, not having a blog or website with which to help the Googlebombing campaign. But I do have two libraries down the street from me -- one county, one city. I'll donate a copy of Jenna's book to each of them. What a great way to use my Borders Personal Shopping Day.

It isn't often I get so annoyed at a company's behaviour that I write to them. This idiot managed to tip me over the edge. I despise scammers and, even more, I despise scammer lapdogs.

If anyone wants a copy of the (barely literate) e-mail Mr James Cordray of JCHosting sent me, let me know.

Tri

Just read Neil Gaiman's blog entry. I love that man... ((dreamy sigh))

Sorry for the harsh tone, everyone; I just read Jenna's blog entry and now I'm really mad all over again.

BB makes bogus threats all the time. Anyone with half a brain could have read the thread on her on Absolute Write, or Googled any number of other sites for proof. JC Hosting were told this; they were given information from experts that explained why the threats were bogus, too. I truly thought the whole stupid thing was blowing over--right up until we got the notice that we had one hour to grab what we could before JC Hosting shut us down. And that they weren't letting us have our data.

I thought that was weird. Now I know why they did it: they have a competing site.

James, Stephanie, take a minute and really think about how you want a few tens of thousands of writers and techies thinking of you. Lisa Spangenberg's suggestion might just save your reputations, if you have the sense to follow it.

Having received Ianal advice that the above trudges close to the edge of liable hear say, please understand that I do not mean to accuse Bauer of actually violating any law, so "crook" must be taken in its sense of "providing offered services in a way so infelicitous as to constitute disservice". I regret any misapprehension due to my carelessness in expressing this side-issue to the message. Moreover, I regret the word "crook" as being regrettably vague even in its intended nonactionable way. The term "congenital frauditrix" would be far more apt.

The point remains that any possible or conjectured enmity between Stephanie Cordray, JC Hosting, JamesC, TotalWeb, and the infamousmentioned Bauer merely makes them enemies of enemies to society, free speach, and the American Way. And to say that the enemies of our enemies are all lies is incorrect; sometimes they slip a bit of nonfalsehood in just to keep us confused. That's the hell of the curate's egg--the good parts lead us on to the further foulness.

Thanks for your support of Jenna and AW
Lauri (Nomad, moderator at AW)

Janet

Harry aka HConn

((Shakes head))

If this were any more of a soap opera, Babs would suddenly be revealed to be related as well...

ACONITE: May I post your comment in its entirety on another site?

You got it, Mac. What's your email address? If you don't want to post it here, email me at JBagwell@pacificsunwear.com

Thanks muchly...

((Humph. I'm trying to connect to that site now, but it's not connecting. Sheesh...)

They're one of the two I mentioned earlier.

I am sure, though, that AW will return bigger and stronger than ever before. Ha! Did she really think we'd all sail over to her silly Ersatz forum? Our home is with Jenna, and there we'll stay.

Here's the site itself, obfuscated, since I couldn't insert a "rel=nofollow"
www.bbla. com/awol/awol.html
and here's the Google cache of it.

Here's what I noticed:
#1. Its really sad that she has these poor people who want to be authors doing podcasts.
#2. doing google searches on the string "authors without limits" turns up what look to me to be a whole bunch of shady sites that are either captive Barbara Bauer sites, or are adfarms. I think its time this end of her schemes was properly documented, so that when you search for that string you get the Twenty Worst list, or something similar.
#3. The autoformatting of html strips out attributes like "rel=nofollow". Can we fix that, or are all links automatically stripped anyway, and the trimming is just to prevent redundancy?

I've been lurking on this thread, and thinking for a while that what JC Hosting did makes no sense. You might shut down a site if a crazy person called you up and screamed at you. But if it was a very popular site, and shutting it down would generate large numbers of (craziness-optional) people screaming at you, then you wouldn't be doing yourself any favors. JC Hosting was obviously well aware of how popular the AW site is. So there's more to the story than first meets the eye.

IMO, JC Hosting should receive just as much bad publicity from this incident as BB. (Two GoogleBombs for the price of one?)

They have their own site (competing? not a chance!), and along came Babs. How convenient for them. Kharma's a well deserved thing.

This entire thing has sickened me. RL is evil enough w/ all it's pitfalls, but I've spoken to and met some of these people on AW. Others, I correspond w/. They're my family dammit--don't mess w/ family.

All that the 3(JamesC, Stephanie & Babs) of you get as a result of this: loss of business, loss of reputation, you have brought on yourselves. Please remember that, no one did this to you. When you want to point fingers, down the road, share a mirror, it will save a few bucks, and peer in together.

(Sheesh. I STILL can't get in. Maybe Babs complained about WN too...)

Yoinks! The plot coagulates even futher. My guess is the next twist will either be the "amnesia episode" or we'll find out that Babs is someone's evil twin. I should call my bookie and see what the odds are saying...

They're great folks to work with, and they're competent and smart.

Here's to hoping AW comes back even stronger than before. You don't really realize how much you miss something until it's gone.

D.R.

CathyC noted at 1625/25 May 2006 that:

I think an awful lot of internet providers don't really understand much about the DMCA. They probably heard about the Ellison v. Robertson lawsuit (189 F.Supp.2d 1051, 2002 Copr.L.Dec. P28,420, 62 U.S.P.Q.2d 1170) back several years ago, and panic when the Act is invoked. Anyone interested in the actual case can use the cite here to find it.

<soapbox>Don't cite cases that have been overturned. It can actually get a judge to issue sanctions against you. I see this far too often on the 'net: it's easy enough to find a case that seems to support your position, but you also have to ensure that that case remains good law.</soapbox>

* * *

A short primer on § 512 (the part of the DMCA dealing with ISP liability):

An ISP can claim a limited safe harbor for certain varieties of copyright infringements that appear on or through its services through the acts of third parties. The ISP remains liable (if liability would otherwise be established); the remedy available to the copyright holder is extremely restricted (see §§ 512(j)-(l)), but the DMCA is emphatically not immunity. Critical prerequisites include:
* Registering a DMCA agent with the Copyright Office under § 512(c)(2)
* Complying with the notice and policy requirements of § 512(i)
* Complying with the counter-notification requirements of § 512(f), available to parties who contest the designation of their material as infringing

The key distinction in practice is among three of the five categories of infringing communication channels: stored (§ 512(c)), indices (§ 512(d)), and transient (§ 512(a)). A provider's duties, safe harbor, and privileges are slightly different for each channel.

Chris

Make of that what you will. While you're doing that, don't believe that there are no comments to that post - clicking through anyway I find a bunch of them, ranging from vitriolic to 'more in sorrow than in anger but still pretty damn annoyed'. If she's reading them, she cannot avoid knowing what people think of her now.

Over at Writing Wise? A handful of introductory type posts dated 21st and 22nd May from a couple of contributors as well as Stephanie and James C. The forums? Sorry, I don't know the html for dark and echoing halls of eerie nothingness. Or a desolate prairie where the only movement is a tumbleweed, plaything of an uncaring breeze.

Just in case anyone's curious but doesn't want to offer aid and comfort by way of traffic statistics.

I did go over to JC-Hosting (http://jc-hosting.com/) today, though, hoping that perhaps they had something to say.

They do.

In their "Terms of Use" they now have:

IMPORTANT NOTICE:
BEGINNING IMMEDIATELY, anyone hosting websites or services o­n their server that support spammers or cause any of our IP space to be listed in any of the various Spam Databases will have their server immediately removed from our network. The server will not be reconnected until such time that you agree to remove ANY and ALL traces of the offending material immediately upon reconnection and agree to allow us access to the server to confirm that all material has been COMPLETELY removed. Severe violations may result in immediate and permanent removal of the server from our network without notice to the customer. Any server guilty of a second violation WILL be immediately and permanently removed from our network without notice.

Weirdly, the Wayback Machine doesn't show them having that provision a year ago (Mar 05, 2005 is the last Wayback archive of the site).

We see from his previous post, "I will not spam this site with a link as I really do not know if the owner would like that information being passed around on this site," that James(C) believes that posting a relevant link on a messageboard constitutes "spamming."

I think I see how he's going to attempt to defend the indefensible.

http://jccordray.com/

Good luck deciphering it, however. I've seen my cat write more coherent things just walking on the keyboard.

A couple years ago I learned of a website which gathers much public information, making it relatively easy to find people who are unlisted in phone directories and such. I don't really approve of this information being so readily accessable and I don't share the URL with people trying to find their ex, or their favorite celebrity. (Although after hearing of their searches, I've found what appear to be home addresses for both. Shudder!)

When I learned of this mess, not only did I post about it at the one writing site I frequent that didn't already have a message up about it, but I also started nosing around.

I have some home addresses and telephone numbers which I would not post publicly, of course. Should there be legal proceedings afoot, I'd be glad to share them.

Maryn, Girl Detective (now about that roadster...)

http://jccordray.com/

Notice (paragraph 9) that everytime there was a bandwidth overage, Stephanie, HIS OWN PARTNER, intervened on AW's behalf? And then he wonders why he gets a confused email from Jenna Glatzer. Stephanie takes care of this again and he blames Jenna for not getting back to him.

If James wants someone to blame, he should look a whole lot closer to home!

And the logic, from a technical pov, of that screed JamesC posted, is entirely lacking. Essentially, if you know anything at all about serving content, JamesC is saying "We're incompentent and unprofessional."

I've got presentation fodder for, oh, at least the next three or four geek conferences. You know, I'm sure that page will be changing a lot; better grab it now.

If:

a) setting up your own writing site
b) yanking a "competitor"
C) leaving said "competitor" no time to back up their files

...is indeed "Business as Usual" for JC-Hosting, I hope all their other customers drop them like a bomb.

In the meantime, those of you who were former members of AbsoluteWrite may want to go here:

http://www.hostsearch.com/company_info/jc-hosting.asp

...and submit a review. I'd suggest keeping it as factual as possible (since the facts are damning enough without further embellishment).

If I were on the lookout for a new host, I'd certainly want to know if they'd pulled a stunt like this.

rogerjcarlson.com/Forum/writerforum/default.asp

So...what interactive websites would not fall into this category? James C., you need to understand that slick little CYA crap like this will not go undetected, and it merely makes you look like a scammer yourself.

-- Stephanie sets up AW with specially rated server space

-- AW goes way over agreed upon limits, with outdated software, and extremely heavy system requirements - kept under control by Stephanie.

-- Wagner hands over control of AW to Glatzer but doesn't record the transaction with the host.

-- A lot of resources now going unchecked, but given the nod by Stephanie.

-- Bauer submits legal request for takedown

-- Address is removed from AW

-- Other posters take badly to removal.

-- Address re-appears, with added bashing, violating JC Hosting TOS/AUP.

-- Bauer contacts JC again

-- JC contacts Glatzer

-- Fight breaks out over the request

-- JC pulls the plug on AW, giving 24 hours notice, claiming multiple infractions, with this as the last straw.

-- JC request payment for the next month so that site contents can be removed from database for transport; shuts down site with decision to drop from collection.

-- Lawyer calls from AW

-- JC's Legal advice is to hold onto the database as evidence, hence total lockdown.

-- Internet explodes

Is that about the size of it?

First, you need to understand what Spam is.

Second, Ms. Bauer has her email address posted on her web site, so how can she know the source of any spam she receives?

Third, if Ms. Bauer was a real agent, she would have no cause for complaint.

Good day.

I. am. so. confused.

I am thinking maybe somebody needs a better lawyer?

I mean, if it were me, I'd try to issue a better public statement. Something along the lines of ... sorry for all of the confusion, we'll be giving AW all of their info back.. (not.. oh hey I'm not a big bad ass, but I'm asying I could be, so watch out.) The quick shut down was due to some legalities we had no control over, yet we'll be taking care of our customers as quickly as possible...sorry for the confusion.

now, let's say I was in the market for their services... the whole, hey, I can be a bad ass and shut you down within an hours notice and keep all your sh*t... well...

heck no. def. not for me.

There's an old saying I think could be applied to that:

"The longer the explanation, the bigger the lie."

Sorry, I still shudder from "grammer."

Domain owners can register "privately" which means that their personal address is not in the public directory. It's very very common, and I've actually dealt with domains that Roger Wagner is the contact for; you get a very clear explanation of what the situation is, and how to cope and who is really in charge.

A competent and honest ISP wouldn't even bother mentioning fact that the registrant Admin contact is a titular third party; it's just not an issue.

I see that Stephanie has "no comments" listed under her blog entry announcing her new website...but if you click on the post, everyone who posted is still there.

This is why you don't screw people over in the internet age. Too easy for it to all come crashing back down right on your own head.

D.R.

So I'm not even sure what rumors he is trying to squench, other than the observation that since we only have his and Stephanie's word that Barbara sent them the message, it would have been possible for them to have fabricated the incedent.

I mean, ignoring the talk of contractual disputes, the 'official' version of events is that Bauer called to complain about people posting her address, the fight with Jenna was over peoples' ability to legally post her address, and the direct result of the fight was the switch being flicked.

~Julia (aka: the moderator known as TemlynWriting on AbsoluteWrite)

Barbara BauerBarbara BauerBarbara Bauer Heh.

Powered by ZeroForum 2.1.1g. ©2006 RelyNet, Inc.

http://www.zeroforum.com/

To see one forum hosted by Zero Forum, look for OutdoorsBest Florida Sportsman forums.

http://outdoorsbest.zeroforum.com/

GPatten

Look, I don't think there's ever a clear cut "well this person is Eeeevile" to these kinds of things. But really, JamesC. Come on. You're an outstanding, teflon exemplar of business acumen who has no responsibility for allowing things to get to a point you felt had no other option than to pull it?

If you let things slide and slide and slide and slide... you can't really bitch too much about being suddenly a mile and half from where you started, as if it's a surprise.

I predict that AW will be back, but JC won't be.

Thanks for this thread, Making Light.

Looks like an ad to me.

He says:
I say this because there has never been any official agreement between Mr. Wagner and JC-Hosting that he was turning over this account to Ms. Glatzer but that is just one infraction of our original agreement.

This suggests to me that he, like a few other people I've dealt with in the past, cannot easily cope with the notion that a company is comprised of individuals, and that generally an individual may quit, be fired, or transfer to a different responsibility and then you have to deal with someone else. It's clear that everything on the site is run by a company. Every page says "© Absolute Write" at the bottom. There are staff bios.

The site was running some very outdated web applications vulnerable to all sorts of security issues, php injections you name it this site was ripe for the hacking. I emailed Mr. Wagner we discussed this both on the phone and through emails Stephanie also discussed this issue with him but nothing was ever done about it so I sat each day tracking log files and rewriting security rules to protect the site plus all of the other sites that were sharing this server (if I had my way I would have shut it down till the soft ware was updated) Stephanie once again supported the community working daily in the back ground finding the issues tracking down fixes and passing them over to me to set up.

That's very nice of him to do that work voluntarily, but he didn't have to. Most web hosting providers don't really care what software you run on their servers, and will happily let you run out-of-date and insecure scripts. They don't care if you're risking being hacked; after all, they'll have their network set up so that your virtual server is isolated from everyone else's and can't really do any harm. They do care if spam gets sent from your server... if that happens, they'll step in and shut it (or at least its access to send e-mail) down until you can resolve the issue. It doesn't sound as though that happened.

Ms Glatzer emailed and said that Mr. Wagner was no longer involved with Absolute Write (not sure what happened here never was given a reason nor did Mr. Wagner ever contact or ask for the account to be transfered)

That's probably because he assumed JC understood it had been opened for a company, not for him personally.

[...] she complained about short outages which I spent days tracking down till I found that the outdated web apps and the over usage of server resources were the issue

Spent days tracking them down? What he means is he probably set up an automatic system to monitor the server until it happened, then looked at what caused it, probably examining a few hundred lines of logging information, spending about an hour on the job. At least, that's how a competent administrator would approach it.

Another point: in the nine years that I've been a professional web developer, I've never seen a "short outage" that was caused by a software failure. At least, not an end user one. Short outages are almost always caused by flaky hardware, and ever-so-occasionally by faulty systems software (e.g. buggy web server software, which would have been JC's responsibility to install).

Ok now that you have a good idea of what was given freely let’s talk about the email issue with Ms. Bauer. The lady filed a complaint with us in writing; we needed to react in good faith to what we deemed as a possible legal issue for OUR business all that was asked was the email address be removed from the post.

I'm not a lawyer, but as a matter of professional integrity I make sure that I understand laws that are relevant to my business. Not in-depth, perhaps, but enough to know what is and isn't likely to be covered, and to know when I would need to seek legal advice because my expertise isn't enough. JC it seems did neither -- he didn't know that BB's threats were without legal basis, and didn't think to consult a lawyer. This is unprofessional at best.

an illegal shell access was committed by someone using AW’s log in information (this is a federal law broken now and yes we are tracking down that person and no there is no way some one just guessed at this user name and pass word)

I'm not sure what law. Somebody trying to log in to a system that they presumably believed they were authorised to use (as JC hasn't mentioned instructing them not to access it, only changing the settings on the account so that the web server wouldn't work; this is also likely how they wanted to transfer the database off, which he just said he had given them access for).

Now on a personal note I would like to ask a question.
How can AW and its members claim to be searching out the truth and attacking scammers when the members them selves (and possibly the owner/s) have no problem creating and spreading misinformation and lies?

On a personal note I'll answer... you've pissed us off, and left us in a situation where we don't really know what the truth is. We're not lying when we post here, even if sometimes things we say are wrong. The point is, nobody here has the full picture. Nobody (except perhaps you and Stephanie) knows the full extent of what has happened and why. We're not lying about you. We're speculating. We're trying to work out why an apparently professional ISP would behave in such an unusual manner. And believe me, what you've done is unusual. I've run my share of controversial websites in the past nine years, and had my share of legal threats, and none of the ISPs I've worked with have done anything like you have to AW. I've read the case law. I've read Ellison v AOL. I've read Godfrey vs Demon Internet, not that that really applies to you. I know the limits of those decisions, and the implications they have over how an ISP needs to behave to be within the law, and the information I have about what your company did suggests that you were a long way back from that line.

Well said.

You're absolutely correct. I didn't shepardize it and should have before posting. My apologies for relying on old research and thanks for the correction. Also, congrats on the win. :)

Maryn, who told you all she was mean

In spreading the word here, you've proved again how valuable you both are to the community.

I found JC-Hosting's terms of use dating from April 27, 2006 in the Google cache:
http://66.102.7.104/search?q=cache:GC8abEy0L4EJ:jc-hosting.com/Sections-article10-p1.html+jc-hosting+sections-article10-p1&hl=en&gl=us&ct=clnk&cd=1&client=firefox-a

I don't know the timeline well enough to know if this predates the incident which caused them to remove Barbara Bauer's e-mail address the first time. (I was too behind in reading Jim McDonald's thread on writing to read anything up-to-date.)

Even if we take the TOS-AUP at face value though, I don't see how posting an e-mail address might be considered to have violated it. If the "BEGINNING IMMEDIATELY" term is the one that AW has allegedly violated, then I note that JamesC's explanation has shown no indication that AW has cause any Spam Database to list them, or any indication that AW has supported any spammers. What's interesting though is that after having apparently claimed that Barbara Bauer had nothing to do with the shutdown, he now claims that she does have something to do with it after all.

Correction: I dealt with Roger A. Waggoner.

But a masked Admin contact is a minor issue, and not uncommon. And it's clear that J-C hosting knew who owned the domain, and was the primary contact.

This statement proves (to me anyway) that JC has an agenda above and beyond stated web-hosting concerns, be they technical or legal. This is subjective, and meant to erode consumer confidence in the information provided by Absolutewrite and its associates. There could only be two possible reasons for this: to redirect some of the 7,000 AW members to another organization, or to protect an entity that had been the subject of ethical scrutiny by AW watchdogs. Or both.

The second page says (in part):
'My name is James Cordray I am better known on the Internet by JamesC. I am married to the most wonderful woman in the world who happens to own TotalWeb International Net Consultants in Nashville TN.'

Um, he works for her?
That also explains the 'INC' bit: it's an abbreviation which is potentially misleading.

I do find it interesting that certain people in that thread who weren't there, getting the information in real time as the shutdown happened, are so sure they know the real version of the event from James Cordray's account. Interesting, too, that they assume the only untold parts of the story are on James' side, and that those accounts would favor his story.

JMO, of course, but what I saw firsthand indicates to me that Barbara Bauer and bandwidth were convenient excuses to take down a major competing website.

A number of banned AW people post regularly at WN, which may count for some of the stuff that's floating up. And then there are those who always go for the underdog -- even if the underdog just happened to take a huge chunk out of a cyber angel.

Fighting the good fight...

First of all, JamesC, if you're interested in the truth (as you claim to be), the owners of AW had nothing whatever to do with creating or posting this blog entry. After you pulled the plug on AW, I talked with Teresa -- she knows many people in both the writing and computer industries. ML is a natural place to start when one's looking for an ethical and competent web host. If you have a problem you have it with me, not Jenna.

Next -- everything posted here was true to the best of my knowledge at the time. If Stephanie was never involved with PublishAmerica, it was my error. My memory is good, but not infallible. Unfortunately I couldn't consult the archives. Can you think of a reason why I couldn't check them?

Next, it seems from your own account that Barbara Bauer certainly did have something to do with your decision to pull the plug. Would you care to revise your earlier denials?

As to the exact timing of your actions, all I know is what I saw in public. Perhaps I misinterpreted them; perhaps not.

You speak of the members of AW as if they were only one individual, rather than many, each with varying points of view, style, and interests. This is an error that will lead you to bad decision-making. You have been on the web long enough that you should be able to recognize that.

Consider carefully before you use the word "lies," okay?

It seems clear, from your own account, that there is only one ethical path for you now. Please take a deep breath, swallow your pride, and do the right thing.

Sorry, but his behavior throughout does not give me much confidence in him or his company.

ohmyfreakinggawd. he isn't incorporated he's a poser. Hm. that also means no liability protection. no corporate veil.

Cry Havoc! And let slip the dogs of war.

Greg

woof! woof! woof!

that was my dog impersonation.

Bless you, Teresa & Patrick.

I did make a couple blog posts regarding this, also. But mine were -- at the time -- based on limited information and more along the lines of pointing the way to others who knew more about the situation than I do/did.

This is interesting in one respect that it shows an ugly side of human/business nature that I'm finding quite applicable to a current work-in-progress (shame shame, Jen -- I know).

I find it heartwarming to see so many people concerned, wanting to help, and wanting to know when it will all be back up again.

~Jen
(AW Moderator for the Mainstream/Contemporary board)

I really do think this can still all be ironed out...cross your fingers, folk, eh?

Here's something that happens to *all* of us: you're hanging out with friends, and somehow the topic of "Banned cards in Magic the Gathering" comes up. And its now 2 hours later, and you don't yet have resolution. And it hits you- hey, I haven't even played MtG for, what, 5 years? But you still lost those 2 hours.

Or maybe it isn't MtG. Maybe an hour at Thanksgiving, trying to get grandpa to admit that Net Neutrality is the most important issue facing the net this year. And grandpa isn't even online, and you flew in to see everyone, and is this really what you and your family cares about? But then why don't they just see what you're saying- isn't it so obvious?

Or at a high-school reunion, about how baseball is far more American than football. You haven't even *seen* these guys for 5 years, and you're talking sports philosophy?

Or on Craigslist, you got castigated for your question in Fixit Forum on copper vs. plastic pipes, and so now you're refreshing every half hour, explaining how you've been misinterpreted. And by "you" I mean "CrisInACondo from SFO."

Or even here- on ML- where it became very important to get 'Bob the Swordsmith' to admit that cilantro just doesn't belong in lentil dishes. (Well, it doesn't. Soap is not an ingredient.) You're neglecting your own blog because, welll, Bob needs to admit you're right, and cilantro is wrong. 10 posts on one thread isn't too much to make that important point, is it?

All of us, absolutely all of us, have a little conversational switch in our brains, the switch that tells the ancient layers of our brain that "This conflict- if I lose, then my access to food and mates is lost. My status and pack will be gone. I.Must.Win."

That switch turns on and your side of the argument is now informed by 240 million years of destiny to Not.Let.Go. Don't.Walk.Away. Must.Keep.Refreshing. Your fate and future depend on winning this argument.

(aka You've never had an argument with a spouse where one of you was ready to stay somewhere else that night, *but you would never be able to explain to your friends and family exactly why [Abraham Lincoln's philosophy / annuals vs. perennials / topic] was worth the battle*? I don't believe you.)

So, folks at JC, I think everyone here can empathize with the first part of how you got here. AW's been bugging you, some women called with lawsuit threats and freaked you out: you made a decision- you took a side, a stand. You started to argue that side, of course. Who wouldn't defend what they've just decided?

Then the switch flipped. That "sunk costs are irrelevant" became irrelevant. That this can only grow worse- irrelevant. That this isn't just you and AW- its you, AW, and the whole world (wide web)- irrelevant. If you just explain it enough, people will see you're right, so you don't.walk.away. Can't.Stop.Now.

Wait- think back to those lost hours of arguments- don't you remember telling yourself "next time, I'm going to pause, walk away, apologize, not get caught up like that"?

You can stop. You can have people empathizing, because we've all had that switch go off. "Hey, I took a stand, but it wasn't the right battle. Sorry. Let me help make this right."

Step back, turn the switch to 'off.' Then in a week this thread is gone from the front page. Your blood pressure and heart rate can go back down.

We all make mistakes, and get caught up in frog v. duck battles. We've all been there. The danger is when we choose to stay there. Flip the switch back.

Here's to AW for being strong and proud and for not giving up! Here, here!

What bugs me most is the light in which he paints Jenna--like some dumb school-girl. >

Me thinks JC thought he was dealing w/ someone from OZ

Well, if AW takes this route...

http://www.eff.org/

I was talking to some people, and this is totally not spam or anything. If there was some kind of REAL lawsuit against AW... Here is a very good group that deals with stuff like this.. the Electronic Frontier Foundation. This is a non-profit group protecting digitla rights and freedom of speach.

To quote them exactly, "When our freedoms in the networked world come under attack, the Electronic Frontier Foundation (EFF) is the first line of defense."

and :

"Blending the expertise of lawyers, policy analysts, activists, and technologists, EFF achieves significant victories on behalf of consumers and the general public. EFF fights for freedom primarily in the courts, bringing and defending lawsuits even when that means taking on the US government or large corporations."

http://www.eff.org/

so, just an FYI from some really great computer geeks I know. :O)...

http://20worstagents.com/

The standard 20 Worst Agents List, but our favorite, Miss #4, gets some special treatment ;)

Chris

Bye, Bye Barbara: The Play

Did I misread you? Or are you paraphrasing grievously?

http://alanyee.blogspot.com/

Anyone who's creating a master list of all the blogs on Barbara Bauer, make sure to link to this.

Be afraid, BB. Be VERY afraid.

But she is a scammer. She charges far more than normal expenses (besides, she hasn't procured an advance or royalties for her writers, so there is no commission and there are no expenses), and she has a horrible reputation as an agent with NO SALES TO ANY MAJOR PUBLISHERS, because she ISN'T a literary agent.

And he goes with the attitude that "ALL real agents have no feelings of sympathy whatsoever and none of them hate it when a ruthless scammer takes advantage of clueless newbies." This isn't representative of all agents, only of SammyK.

I get kind of tired of his completely condescending blog. I wouldn't want such an antagonistic agent who pre-labels and calls me a stupid idiot newbie just because I haven't gotten my agent and publisher yet, to represent my work. He can go fuck Barbara Bauer for all I care.

"Only one of three ever banned from AW"?! WTF? Baby, I know damned well more than three people have ever been banned from AW for bad behavior. I'm a moderator there.

Jenna's number one rule on AW has always been, "Respect your fellow writer." In addition to that, she's made it clear on numerous occasions that PublishAmerica authors are not to be attacked or made to feel worthless on AW because of who their publisher is. By your own admission--and even discounting what else there might have been to the story--you violated two prime rules of the board by attacking a PA author, and you're surprised you were taken to task for it?

Whether she did or not is unknown. It has been alleged.

Whether or not she did what? Alleged by whom?

What remains is for me to point out that what you say about Jenna is no less allegation than what anyone else says about Jenna. I expect there are two sides to the story you present as Uncomfortable-Truth-Deal-With-It, and I have not yet seen any reason to receive your word, out of all the words available, as gospel.

The word "worthless" can be very emotionally ego-shattering when someone uses that word in connection to me, my writing abilities, or my book (which I haven't written yet, BTW, but am plotting). Sometimes I feel my stories are worthless, but I still remain confident that SOMEDAY, whether in 5, 10, 15, 20, or 50 years, I will be published, whether in magazines or in book form.

Mark, just think of how a poor writer who was just verbally and emotionally abused by PA, who starts doubting that their book was good (since PA accepts anything, they know it wasn't judged with high-quality standards), would react when someone calls them or their book "worthless," confirming their doubts. Some of them just blow it off, and continue writing. But less emotionally stable writers will, after reading the word "worthless," wallow in sadness and quit writing for good. That is sad. And that has happened to some of those who have found out they've been scammed by PA.

Some people, like me, are quite sensitive to certain words, such as "worthless." If you say it to the wrong person, you may have just destroyed the development and career of a potentially great author. You wouldn't want that to happen.

We have a hosting company, and blessed volunteers are grabbing cached copies of forum pages before they disappear, just in case. Instructions on how to do that are provided.

I think it's because he's the lamest troll evar!

If a troll is too damn lazy to post in the blogs of the people he's insulting, he's not worth bothering with.

And to JamesC - at the top of this thread, I refered to Stephanie as a PA author. It seems I was in error, but as Uncle Jim pointed out, I couldn't very well check, now could I? I apologize for calling her a PA author, since I now realize that that is an insult to PA authors everywhere. Happy now?

*With a two-year-old running around the house I'm trying to tone down the potty mouth.

Also, an update on the Googlebomb: A search for "Barbara Bauer" now shows the 20 Worst Agents list at #3, immediately after two pages on Bauer's own site. Heh.

BTW, you wouldn't happen to be the Mark A York who picks fights with just about everybody in the comments on Lee Goldberg's blog, would you?

By your fruits are you known.

Just as you have your emails, I have my own personal experience. Aconite's interpretation of your sad tale of woe hews more closely than yours does to the Jenna I know. I have seen her time and time again earned triple any sainthood you caution me against "bequeathing" on her.

Aside: "Bequeath? I'm not dead yet! I think I'll go for a walk--"

That you are only aware of two other people besides yourself getting banned is unsurprising. Why would you lurk on AW after getting banned? What possible reason could you have to know about people getting banned after your departure?

That you were banned simply tells me that your philosophy on how a site should be run differs from Jenna's. It happens. It's not necessarily a bad thing in and of itself. But it also makes you rather less than an unbiased voice in this discussion.

You think some of us disbelieve you because we're uncomfortable with the truths contained within The Gospel According to Mark. Oddly enough, another reason we might disebelieve you is the headlong flight of your claims into the face of our own personal experiences with Jenna.

March 2006? Yah, about a dozen or more of them have been banned in the last month or so. Most of them were She-Who-Must-Not-Be-Named.

Roach, I think you might be right. Which certain scam agents/publishers? I don't know who that would be. Is it PA? He does sound a little like a wannabe/scam agent/publisher because of how he portrays other legitimate agents such as Miss Snark. I mean, why else would he despise Writer Beware and P&E? Most of the other agents who write blogs are decent people who don't think they're hot stuff. He has never bragged about any of his sales, though Miss Snark doesn't either, for obvious reasons.

I may be wrong and he could be completely legit, but he doesn't give off that impression, does he? Anybody know?

When, oh when will we get our AW back!!!

Meanwhile, thank you again, Teresa and Patrick for putting up w/ us. We promise to put the furniture back where we found it before we leave. Yeah, we'll fluff the cushions, too :)

(milk)-(nose)

(COUGH)

(snort)

WOOT!

Heck, the only person I can even think of who was banned for a different reason, was a lady who asked to be banned for a day so she could finish a manuscript.

But there were plenty of people banned from AW. That's kind of what you have to expect when 7,000 people interact together on a webforum.

The rule at AW was always "Respect Your Fellow Writers." I have found, in the year or so that I have been a member at AW, that every single bannee (if I may use that term) was banned for breaking that basic rule.

Sure, Jenna went off on some of the people she banned. But then again, Mark, in all of the cases I've seen, every single bannee had it coming.

I haven't managed to read all of the blogs posting on this issue as there are just too many, but I've read a HUGE chunk. Congrats, way to go.

To do my bit, I'm sharing your cause with the design industry at 'Designers who blog', with the post 'Twenty Worst Agents Saga'.

http://www.designers-who-blog.com/index.php/archive/twenty-worst-agents-saga/

In order to post I've bent the rules of my blog somewhat to include your industry. I already include those in marketing, branding, etc, and as writers also work within the design industry it's really not that big of a leap.

Anyway, good luck. I'll be watching to see how this progresses, and hope to see some of you at Absolute Write at some point.

Cat

SFWA 20 Worst Agents list is now the second search result for Barbara Bauer.

Hooray for those meddling kids!

They are still working on getting the forum databases.

Sayeth the blogging 'A Gent'. My emphasis.

I've got a screenshot posted at http://www.sff.net/people/jchines/Pics/Number2.jpg

So, how much work do you think it will take to bump it to number one?

Practically, they have to be careful which fights they support, because losing a case is no help to them.

The question of the database, and what's happened to that, and whether the AW owners can ever recover it; that's something that the EFF may be very interested in.

I expect that there's a lot of fiddly little details which could mess things up on the lagal front, but not letting AW recover their database seems to me to be a lot like theft.

When AW does come back up, I'll have a few laughs with ya! But in the meantime, I'm still upset and haven't had the humor bug lately.

Spooky

Have a chat with Aric in Hasweb's pre-sales forum to get an idea of why I use them over other hosts that offer seemingly competitive plans.

They can be a bit silly at times, but the moment there's a problem they're right on top of it.

Their plans can be found here:
http://hasweb.com/linux_web_hosting.php

The "Pro" plan seems like it would fit AW's needs.

snd "3"?

Pck fghts? CPx s t? f y hd ny gts y'd s yr wn nm. N, t's jst lrg grps f flks n nln frms bt wrtrs r xtrmly tchy nd gnt blgswrms whn thy hr thngs thy dn't lk. Thn thy cm n thr's bk st n mzn nd lv slm rvws tht r stpd bynd blf, cllng nnfctn wrk "trrbl nvl" nd th lk. gr wth Gldbrg n prctclly vrythng nd wrkd n hs shw fr yrs whn h ws th wrtr/prdcr. Dbtng s nt "pckng fghts."

ddn't ndrstnd Ncl's lst pst. t ws nnsnscl lbt smngly SP sht th mssngr. Whtvr. My xprnc s vld nnthlss whthr nyn crs t blv t r nt. Wht th srvr/hstng srvc wntd s stll nclr. Snds lk mny t m.

ws crtnly th frst t b bnnd, bck whn vryn ddn't wnt, r dr, t fght Mnrs, bsds Dv, nn, Vctr nd Jm. vn thy rjctd my frml cmplnt flng cll. "Wn't wrk," thy sd. ws blgswrmd by lyl P thrs t vry st. Grdlly thy cllctvly wk p s my pln wrkd. Smn hd t kck th cn nt th fr. Wrtng s tgh bsnss nd n n wll mllycddl y n NY. My dvc s t bck t p.

SmmyK s ndd blnt nd dn't knw wh h s. Tht's th thng wth nnymty, lthgh mss snrk's s nly thnly vld. knw wh sh s. H snds lk blpprtn t m.

The outpouring of support for AW means so much to Jenna and the rest of us who work with her on the Mod Squad. Thank you, Patrick and Teresa, for letting us camp out here and the rest of the loyal ML folk for giving us a place to vent.

Oh, Mark. It was me who called you a 3yr. old. Can't have you erroneously blaming my good pal, CaoPaux--I understand reading comprehension may not be your strong suit--that's okay. We writers are quite forgiving.

Anyone, who was found guilty of leaving nasty remarks on gb's, and was a member of AW, was banned. Notice I used past tense. ISP's were tracked and the individuals were summarily dumped/kicked to the curb.

My take is that ANYONE taking shots at either Jenna or current AW members during the present crisis--which it is, are cut from the same cloth as those who caused it. EG: Babs. My suggestion; join the sour-grapes line. I believe it forms to the left.

It really is a shame, Mark, that the only way we could prove that this did or did not happen the way you say it happened, would be to be able to go over to the original AW forums and find out for ourselves.

Oh, and BTW, you were not the first person banned from those boards. If you were only a member since March of '06, like I seem to get from your posts, I can name at least two usernames that have been banned from that site before you were a member there.

Of course, if I really stopped to think about it, I could probably come up with a bundle more....and they were all banned because they did not respect their fellow writer. Whether you think this is the case or not is irrelevant; I'm afraid you don't know Jenna half as well as you think you do.

This stuff wouldn't even be worthy of NEPAT Overflow time, let's move on.

Having only a street level, twelfth grade knowledge on law, the practice of law, and what categories the law represents, I’m bewildered on how this agent Barbara Bauer can con

Stephanie from JC-Hosting, or “Moonshadow” as she is known on Absolute Write to take down or discontinue hosting Absolute Write. It’ hard for me to understand how such people like these are so stupid to do this. Then, I think of some of the experiences I’ve seen where Directors of NASA, Managers of companies as large as Lockheed Aircraft, and others have gone to court only to loose to one of their employees over a lawsuit.

Six, or more years ago I had an attempted fraud by the famous Lisa Hackney (a.k.a. Melanie Mills, Elisabeth Von Hullessem, and many of her others names try to defraud me and it frustrates me how these scumbags can keep on going.

I have a little humor in me still and I know Absolute Write will be back in business soon and that is another day; this is today.

Notice how we're all sticking together even though we don't officially have a home, presently. That's what family does, Mark.

Thank you, again, Teresa and Patrick. Sorry if we're making too much of a mess.

(listens)

(shakes head)

(leaves)

Quasi-disrespect? Sir, if you think the kind of things that have gotten people banned from AW are 'quasi-disrespect,' you don't know what disrespect (or respect, for that matter) is.

"This is a subjective criterion based on a jury of one."

Yes, I know. A jury of one by the name of Mark A. York. Do you want to play Judge too?

You are not an authority on AW, Mr. York. Nor are you an authority on Jenna Glatzer. You're a particularly rude individual who has been banned not only from AW, but from several other writing sites that have been mentioned before in this comment thread. Judging from your posts, I can understand why you were banned from those sites. You treat people like garbage if they disagree with you. That doesn't fly in the real world.

BTW, a PA book is worthless so far as the publishing industry is concerned. This does include yours. In that, the quote Jenna allegedly gave you is quite correct. I should know: I have a PA book, and hardly anyone even knows the book exists, unless I tell them it does.

Now, can we have some real conversation about the real purpose of this comment thread, please? You know: Barbara Bauer, JC-Hosting and the people who run it.

Mark is free to state his own opinions; we are equally free to ignore him.

Just think of these people like my friends in the photo

Cheer up! AW will be back again and we will survive. Don't fret about the small stuff and I'll be around next week to share a smile with you!

Spooky

Just think of these people like my friends in the photo

href="http://pg.photos.yahoo.com/ph/azghostwriter/detail?.dir=/4c64re2&.dnm=3e44re2.jpg&.src=ph"

Cheer up! AW will be back again and we will survive. Don't fret about the small stuff and I'll be around next week to share a smile with you!

Spooky

Pass me the link. You know how I can't see and hear too well. Errr...I have a funny joke for Barbara...no she's not pregnant.

Spooky

http://rogerjcarlson.com/Forum/writerforum/forum_topics.asp?FID=13

I'm glad to see that Jenna et al. are still doing everything they can to get AW back online. I wish them all the best of luck.

So what you're saying is, that anyone who has a blog is vanity published? Hmmm, so if I were to find a blog written by you, on the Internet today, I could assume, based on your own statements, that you are still vanity published?

On another note:

"Sean I suggest you turn your collective gaze on yourselves. Facts continue to be a problem as I have no PA book today."

But the point is, you did have one. It amazes me that you try to insinuate you did not fall into the same trap that many of us did. The fact is, you did fall into the PA trap, whether you want to admit it or not.

"Funny I remain the only who did have one, albeit briefly, still receiving collective hatrid from those who still do."

I find that statement to be quite delusional on your part. 'The whole world hates me because I'm great' is an inaccurate assumption. You're not great, Mr. York. Not everyone in the whole wide world knows the name 'Mark York.' You are not an authority on the writing industry, which can be attested to by the amount of forums you have been banned from over the last several years.

I could name a few, if you'd like. All I have to do is google the terms 'Mark York' and 'Banned' in the same search. The fact of the matter is, you have been banned from numerous sites for your blatant disrespect of others.

"What a marvelous convoluted logic."

On your own part, of course. You do not define for the whole wide world what logic is and is not. In other words, Mr. York, you don't make the rules.

"Disagreement has to be based in fact otherise it's just relativistic"

Yes, and the fact is you're twisting the facts to say what you want them to say.

Now, I will admit that I was wrong in my assumption that you had been banned from AW recently. But I shall not sit here and let you imply that you are one of only three individuals who were banned from AW in its entire time on the Internet. I can think of ten people, right off the top of my head, who were banned either permanently or temporarily, from AW for disrespecting their fellow writers, in the last year.

To say that only three people have been banned from AW in its history, is quite untrue. Like I said before, you are NOT an expert on Jenna Glatzer or on AW. You might have a number of books published, but that does not make you an expert in the subject of this comment thread.

Now, as for jealousy, (which you insinuated when you addressed Jean Marie recently) I don't see how anyone here could care less about your so-called successes. I can attest to the fact that I myself would not have even known who you are, were it not for what I've learned through Google in the last few minutes.

To say that people are jealous because of your successes is, in this writer's humble opinion, highly delusional.

With gratitude,
Chac

It reads like some angry teenager's blog about death metal and how no one understands him. There may be a point in responding, somewhere down the line, but it looks like kind of blog where sensible responses get deleted.

You're the one who started this nonsense, Mark, not me. All I've done is call you on it. Don't get all red-faced because I quoted facts to you that you did not want to read.

----

On another note, I think the MAY trolling industry is getting way out of hand here, so I've decided to stop feeding the said industry as of now. I hope others will follow suit, if they haven't already.

----

I understand that some scam agencies (including Barbara Bauer's) are starting to draft a '2,000 worst writers' blacklist. I read about it over at Miss Snark's blog the other day. I don't know what to think of it.

Does anyone here know what's going on with this issue?

Thanks!

Victoria stopped by in the comments thread over there. This is bluster, nothing more. They also talked about a class action suit with hundreds of agents on board ... which happens to be the same threat made by another scammer years back. This one (Cris Robbins, I believe) was just recycling old hot air.

A 2000 Worst Writers list doesn't even make sense. Countless editors will talk about watching writers develop their skills, going from form rejects to personal responses, until the editor finally starts buying their stuff.

But hey, if the scammers are going to spend their time comparing every submission to a list of 2000 names, so much the better. One more thing to take away from the time they have to actually, you know, rip off new writers.

"A 2000 Worst Writers list doesn't even make sense. Countless editors will talk about watching writers develop their skills, going from form rejects to personal responses, until the editor finally starts buying their stuff.

"But hey, if the scammers are going to spend their time comparing every submission to a list of 2000 names, so much the better. One more thing to take away from the time they have to actually, you know, rip off new writers."

Right on. Thanks for the information. Such rumors tend to make me somewhat uneasy, so I'm glad that it's all just a bunch of smoke and mirrors on some scam agent's part, and not a legitimate threat.

Hopefully this whole issue will come to close soon and with a happy ending.

I can imagine it, Mark. Especially if one does not know who the scam companies are. I feel for the writers out there who might be mislead by such rumors, as I almost was.

But you're right. There is no need to worry about such a blacklist if the only people wielding it are scammers. However, the initial idea is somewhat frightening to someone who is trying to break in to the industry. Such a blacklist, if published, could make some people think that the scammers are indeed legit.

That is one of the things that scared me in the first place, when I read about it at Miss Snark's blog.

I have thrown my lot into the cause by blogging the situation on my own blog (see attached address) and elsewhere (though elsewhere is subject to editorial review and has not yet gone live). The comedy of it all is, twelve hours after I posted, my domain appeared to have suffered the same fate as AW. After a little I realized that I was seeing a "domain registration expired" page, not an "account suspended" page, owing to my ISP's automatic domain renewal software hiccupping. My ISP got on it darn near immediately and set me right by the evening. But boy did I start jumping to conclusions within the first ten seconds or so.

ps. Sean, your advice to yourself and all is good. There's only so much energy to expend in a day; dumping it under bridges does no one any good.

Wow, it's been a while since I got to flag the logical fallacy Argumentum ad crumenam: The fallacy of believing that money is a criterion of correctness

But I was happy to post tonight in solidarity, managing to cram Barbara Bauer 9 times into a brief entry at my blog. Also happy to link to the fabulous parody. Any musical with Clooney, Hugh Jackman, Miss Snark, and Killer Yapp is destined to be a long-running hit.

May AW's new site be a longer running hit.

And I hope Stephanie and her team will reassess their actions and treat their clients, in future, with more consideration when profanity-addicted cranks come calling. (One billion dollar lawsuit? Is this woman medicated?)

Keep linking against looney scammers!

Mir
Mirathon

IANAL, but I'm pretty sure JC Hosting cannot legally hold anyone else's property hostage even if it has a legitimate gripe against AW.

http://www.rogerjcarlson.com/forum/writerforum/forum_posts.asp?TID=228&PN=1

The coordination for what's been grabbed and what needs to be grabbed is here:

http://www.rogerjcarlson.com/forum/writerforum/forum_posts.asp?TID=184&PN=1

and

http://www.rogerjcarlson.com/forum/writerforum/forum_posts.asp?TID=227&PN=1

The Google caches won't last forever. Now's the time to pitch in.

I never cease to be amazed at the stupidity of some people and their actions. To cut off AW on an hour notice...well I am sure Jenna has enough brains to first get AW back up and then go after Stephanie and her ilk. As to this Bauer woman...there is more than one way to skin a cat which is all I will say on line. I will save it for the new AW.

I miss the Mod-Squad....

I am sure Jenna does not need my input here..but being in high tech as a CTO for many years, she should check out godaddy.com or dreamhost

Both would work for AW needs...

Setting up the MYSQL etc. and PHP should not be difficult, I have done it a zillion times, and the web host would help whoever AW uses.

As for what was done to AW.
Einstein is quoted as having once said: "Only two things are infinite, the universe and human stupidity, and I'm not sure about the former."

Enough Said...

Teddy

Funny, I could have sworn there was something there yesterday....

Hope it helps :)

Thanks! Seems a lot shorter than the one I remember, but rather better in terms of Wiki NPOV policy....

Aconite, my friend does indeed make money from her writing, and there are other professional considerations as well.

There are quite a few AW regulars in that position. Perhaps a class-action lawsuit would be in order? We'll have to ask Jaws.

Heh. Reminds me of that guy in a very old AW thread who evangelized that you should only call yourself a writer if that's what you put on your tax returns, and that anyone who used the title without meeting the criteria was cheapening the profession.

Lori, James, thank you. I've begun slogging my way through the Short Fiction writing studio as we speak, since I hadn't seen anyone mentioning it in that thread. Not as momentous as Bewares, but there seems to be a goodly horde of people grabbing that sucker already.

See you all at the Cooler as soon as we're up and running!

I hope the forums are back up soon, else I become a consist and reliable writer... :)

If that were translated into advice for getting along at Making Light, it would come out as something like, "Don't be stubbornly argumentive unless you're sure you're being brilliant."

Teddy,

there's an AW exile forum here and it has a Mod Squad.

My own "attaboys" to Jenna, Unk, and crew for their selfless efforts. Ya'll are doing yeoman's work in keeping the writing community up-to-date on its less savory characters. I for one can't wait until the site is back and more informative ever.

The following ISP has violated my intellectual property rights by shutting down a legitmate website without cause or proper notification. The ISP refuses to return my intellectual property which is and will continue to harm my ability to sell my work while it remains in the ISP's possession.

JC-Hosting
TotalWeb International Net Consulting
4037 Navaho Trail
Nashville TN 37211
Toll Free: (877) 411-7891
Phone: (615) 469-7533
Fax: (615) 250-2430

Send complaint to:

https://rn.ftc.gov/pls/dod/wsolcq$.startup?Z_ORG_CODE=PU01

Has the frantic friend tried search engine caches for her posts?

I hope AW will be back soon.

http://dragonshoard.proboards19.com/index.cgi

I thought it was just a bandwidth problem at first, as that's what the screen said (I was actually on-line trying to post at the time), now to find out all the other things that were happening...

Wow. It's outrageous that it could happen, but I think both the culprits might yet regret it. 7000+ people whose trade is words is not a group I would want mad at me.

I can't wait until she sends Google a C&D.

* Forget the class action. Persons who used the AW system are not a proper class; there is no commonality or typicality, and those are just the most obvious flaws (at least, they're obvious to me… and I've been class counsel in sixty or so matters). I am not going to divert attention in this newsgroup with an exegesis of class certification requirements; suffice it to say that a class action must satisfy six separate requirements (seven for securities), and it's readily apparent that a class action as described earlier in this thread fails at least two of them outright.

* SpookyWriter, the FCC has no jurisdiction over "restraint of trade," and the FTC has no jurisdiction over Internet communications not directly related to advertising or the sale of goods/services. Your message of 1549 today invokes the FCC, but the URL you provided is to the FTC. And those two agencies can't agree on when to meet for lunch, let along work together.

* I've seen a lot of suggestions for hosts. Ms Glatzer has made that decision and is moving forward. May I suggest moving on, particularly as some of the suggestions have serious legal problems themselves?

* <soapbox> The "writers as professionals" argument has cropped up again. Writers are not professionals. Period. There is no licensure requirement; there is no minimum educational standard; there is no disciplinary code, violations of which may lead to removal from the activity. And those are just the easy-to-discern criteria. "Professional" does not mean "I got paid for it." The sooner the writing community confronts reality and admits that writing for pay is a trade (and an honorable one) and not a profession, the sooner the writing community can start doing some worthwhile organization and collective action. </soapbox> Frankly, writers shouldn't want to be legally classed as "professionals"… because collective action by nonlicensed professionals falls afoul of antitrust law.

I say, along with Laurie, the writer of the blog, Peregrinas, I'm so sorry to have left you out of the fun.

Please take her advice and post the list on your blog, put the 20 Worst URL under EACH agent/agency name listed and if you're so inclined, use the new Top 20 Worst Agents Technorati tag. Thanks!

In your comments here, you have impled that you had not yet achieved your goal of (real) publication. Then you stated you didn't know who Sammyk was. The you claimed he published two of yours (books?).

Please explain these apparent contradictions, so I can relax and enjoy the rest of my weekend.

Funny, isn't it, how your definition of professional differs from both the dictionary definition and the generally accepted norm, isn't it?

Of course, perhaps you haven't heard the term "professional athlete". Unless something has changed in the last few moments and I'm unaware, the word "profession" is most often equated with "paid" in that arena... much like writing.

It's also generally accepted that "profession" is synonymous with "career". I can think of a great many people, artists, actors, musicians who have careers.

Dtt, C. Ptt. D nt qstn; ccpt th ppl t pprprt thrty. H knws whrf h spks.

"Th y clmd h pblshd tw f yrs (bks?)."

H pblshd tw f "my cmmnts." Th clm bv ws thy ddn't dr t pst " cmmnt" n hs blg, whch lk mss snrk hv t b pprvd prr. My bks hvn't bn pblshd, s 'd lk, tht's sr s hll tr tdy. Wll t b tmrrw? dn't knw, bt thr r thr chncs t chng tht trvlng rnd.

http://www.richardcobbett.co.uk/codex/totallynotblog/filingcabinet/barbara_bauer/

http://www.kuro5hin.org/story/2006/5/25/02548/8796

http://www.nanowrimo.org/modules/newbb/viewtopic.php?topic_id=31779&forum=202

http://www.digitalmedievalist.com/it/archive/000304.html

http://www.chillingeffects.org/

http://www.digitalmedievalist.com/news/

http://www.amazon.com/exec/obidos/tg/detail/-/B00006AROU/002-9319358-9529610?v=glance

http://chatworthy.blogspot.com/2006/05/absolute-write-is-down-for-now.html

http://apocalypsecow.org/?p=78

http://www.twliterary.com/ted_absolutewrite.html

http://www.deborahwoehr.com/blog/2006/05/25/absolute-write-recovering-from-a-coup-attempt/

http://www.thegoodwebguide.co.uk/index.php?art_id=900

http://tailrank.com/posts/562949953616087/%5BTeresa%5D__Absolute_Write_is_gone

Congratulations, by the way.

Cngrtltns fr wht? Bng nfrngd by Rggd Mntn Prss thr s fnd t tdy t th bkstr? Hv nc dy t y ll t.

We really do need to take advantage of the many, many people posting the top twenty worst agents list on their sites and encourage them to link all the agents. We want all scammers posing as agents exposed, not just Barbara Bauer.

If you have a blog, and especially if you've copied the list onto your site/blog, please do this. Help protect the innocent and naive.

TNH, thank you for graciously allowing us to post here.

Uh, Teresa, I promise we'll paint the place before we move out. Really.

*grin*

It appears to have been first written since this Absolute Write situation began, but I'm not sure about that. The only history now extant is from 28 May. I added a second paragraph on I think Friday, trying to explain why Bauer was singled out from the other 19 without violating Wiki neutrality. Other than a typo, this was allowed to stand until this morning, when someone summarily deleted the article using something called "speedy deletion." Someone else reinstated it four minutes later with something called a "hangon." A third party, noting this disagreement, entered a formal nomination for deletion,which is a review and consensus process. The discussion for this can be found here. Feel free to contribute to this discussion, bearing in mind that registered editors tend to carry more weight than those who are logged by ISP alone.

After this nomination, someone removed my paragraph, and thus all reference to the current controversy, leaving only the facts that she's an agent from NJ and on the list. Someone else then removed all of the external links (Making Light and Bauer's own site), except for an in-text link to the list itself.

I left my opinion on this on the Article for Deletion talk page. Basically the arguments are about whether Bauer is "non-notable," and whether the article is non-neutral, and constitutes an attack. I would not have chosen to start this article, and certainly there's a argument to be made that it was probably written as part of the Googlebombing. However, it does seem clear that she is fast becoming notable over and above her presence on the list, because of her actions in trying to suppress it. That is what I tried to convey in the article, dispassionately and factually, with fudge words like "allegedly" even for things I personally believe to be true. However, others disagreed, and I can't even find a cached version now.

Karen

Karen, it's crap like that that gives me wiki-ulcers and reminds me why I swore off wikipedia. The current vote for deletion looks like a "weak keep", but once the vote is completed, someone else can nominate it for deletion all over again.

To Jenna, Charlie, Mods -- love you all, and back you 100%. And thanks to the ML host for allowing the rants and vents.

I decided to subscribe to Publishers Marketplace after I found the bit that was written on May 25th (Google's got it on page 3 or so of a Barbara Bauer search), so that's a good thing no matter what Wikipedia does.

Nice timing, Euan.

Mac, I'm still startled by the efficacy of disemvowelling, and I invented it.

Anybody want some more popcorn? There's cold soda in the bathtub.

Rose, my frantic friend went after the search engine caches first thing. Now she's neurotically afraid to go through and tidy up her finds, lest she be reminded of some major item that's missing.

I hate it when writers lose their writing. It's like they've suffered the amputation of some invisible body part.

Indeed. I knew it was coming, but Euan's timing was scary accurate.

Anybody want some more popcorn? There's cold soda in the bathtub.

Thank you. *roots around for the Diet Coke*

I hate it when writers lose their writing. It's like they've suffered the amputation of some invisible body part.

Teresa, best of luck to your writer friend in rescuing all her work. I've not lost any writing so far (knock on Moose's wooden little head) but I came close once, and I felt as though someone had scooped away my insides.

There've pretty much always been venues where it's normal to say "Good Morning" with a rocket launcher. There were also places like alt.usenet.kooks and alt.warlord where the regulars would bring in samples of misbehavior committed elsewhere and make fun of it. What I'm asking is whether any board prior to that formally moved offending threads to a free-fire zone as a moderating technique.

Thank you.

It's been a couple days since I've posted a comment here because I've been having trouble accessing this page. I find that I have to put in a different address than is linked to on the main page, and that I have to refresh my browser at least once before I can get the page to load properly.

I like the disemvowelling, myself. It looks like a foreign language to me. Intense fun, trying to figure out what some people are trying to say.

Patrick and Teresa have tasted them. They know.

Sean, isn't it weird how readable disemvowelled text is, with a little work? Actually, I shouldn't say that; some people can't read it at all, which is an interesting thing in its own right.

04-16-2006, 12:18 PM #20 PaulaO Esteemed New Member
Join Date: Feb 2006 Posts: 1 PaulaO is on a distinguished road
Angry I rec'd an email today from Barbara Bauer, Ph.D asking me to remove a post on my blog where I repeat the Top 20 List. I'm not replying to her yet but thought I'd toss her request here first.
She sent the email via a contact form on my site.
Quote: Barbara Bauer, Ph.D. wrote: Cease and Desist: Regarding your post of the 20 Worst Agents which you have copied from an Anonymous Competitor "Miss Snark," it is disparaging, and inappropriate as well as libelous and defamatory. Remove it promptly. Thank you. Sincerely, Barbara Bauer, Ph.D.
Website: IP: 4.186.117.7

the post: http://paulaoffutt.com/blog/archive...gent-no-cookie/
email address the message is from (which can be faked on the form): cannoliq@msn.com
_________________ -- Thought Patterns (blog) They're Just Words (writing info) Butch Girls Can Fix Anything (upcoming book) Last edited by PaulaO : 04-16-2006 at 12:58 PM.

Not so much a free-fire zone, but a single thread into which all flaming posts were dumped, one on top of another. They weren't deleted -- just moved.

I'd started doing that over at AW, and I think it improved the general tone of various threads.

Cool, can't wait to tell Mac you said it's okay. You hear him, Lisa. You did too!

I've always felt that Wikipedia specifically and wikis in general are a great microcosm for what's good and bad about the web.

The challenge is finding the balance between community participation and credibility. Not too long ago, someone of the caliber of Bruce Schneier could write a detailed article on security, and have whole sections edited out by some ninth-grader with a secret decoder ring. (On the internet, no one knows you're a dog.)

The good thing about wikis is that, once the editing reaches equilibrium, you can discover what matters to a whole community of interest. Unfortunately, this may have little to do with reality. Also, any article that's subject to frantic editing by people who are passionately involved is more likely to reflect persistance than anything else.

I sincerely hope that teachers tell their classes to take everything in Wikipedia with an extra helping of salt.

Lisa, I can well believe you can read disemvowelled text without thinking about it. I'll bet you could do the same if your neighbors had gotten you completely plastered. We've got a lot of practice with vowel shifts.

Jean Marie, it's up to the moderators whether they want to use disemvowell