**Yes, I know the Spanish Flu pandemic hit the young and healthy unusually hard

Do we know if there is adequate supply this year to cover everyone? I'm healthy, and not in close contact with anyone with a weak immune system, so I'd rather face the flu myself than keep someone at-risk from getting a dose.

The rest of the family (me, the Mr. and the 6 month old) will still be getting our shots at the clinic. If there are Indianapoloids in the Fluorosphere who want to know, I'm happy to share times/locations.

So if you haven't got the money for a doctor's appointment to get the scrip, you're s.o.l.? Way to go, Georgia . . . great way to keep the flu from spreading among the general population.

About washing hands -- Since I hate to leave the water running in an incipient drought (and we always have an incipient drought here) I have these two different methods I've been meaning to ask you about:

(1)wet hands. turn off water. Add soap. scrub all over (including nails, between fingers, and up the wrist) vigorously for a bit longer than you describe. Rinse thoroughly while scrubbing more.

(2) leave the water on and scrub under it the whole time, but have it only a tiny trickle.

The key question is -- is the water more effective as a relatively short blast, or as a continous trickle?

Last winter I took all the precautions I knew how to take and I was still horribly sick for ten weeks running (mostly because I couldn't take time off to get well). This winter I don't want to get sick at all if I can help it. We're bleaching the baby toys twice a week and washing the heck out of the linens. I'm down on the floor scrubbing the baseboards and getting people to wash the doorknobs and looking for other things to wash. I wish I could alter our diaper disposal system, but I have to be content with bleaching the hell out of that too.

And the groceries are already advertising their shot programs.

I wasn't badly off, really; got sick Saturday evening and was all better except for the laryngitis by Thursday. Though my fever got this close ][ to hitting 103, which was the official "go to the hospital" point.

* He'd have slept on it, but it isn't long enough for him to sleep comfortably, as he is considerably taller than I am. And really, it's quite a comfortable couch.

*Although the fever I had following a tetanus booster wasn't so bad -- it spiked fast, responded rapidly to ibuprofen, and went down every day for the next four days. Very odd.

I am soooo helpful today. :-/

I never used to get them, but about five years ago I was offered a free one while doing temp work in the central office of a major HMO, and took them up on it. Not getting the flu that winter was awesome, and I've been getting them ever since. Now that my elderly father lives with us, both DH and I get them as well as making sure he gets one.

* 3.5 months apart, and I moved across the country in that time period, so I don't think it was just a relapse of the same bug.

I've been doing a lot of traveling over the last few months, and for the first time, I got sick on the road. I picked up a really nasty cold in Sydney, followed up by Montezuma's (or perhaps Maharaja's) revenge in India. It took me weeks to feel right again, and I worry that I spread the non-local cold to my friends here in Seattle.

Even though I got all of the recommended vaccinations for both India and southern LatAm this year, I now feel even more aware of how a single traveler can transport contagions from the opposite side of the planet.

So - flu shot? You betcha!

Lila @ 3 - WTF Georgia? Although it sounds more like a trade group is trying to protect their members against liability more than anything regulatory.

The flu virus is cultivated in duck egg albumin, and I'm allergic* to that. I understand that there are other ways to produce the vaccine that don't involve that culture medium, but they're too expensive for the drug companies to for mass production.

I'd been throwing false positives to TB tests for years -- turns out the common ingredient is duck egg albumin, and none of the school nurses thought to inform my mother of the problem.

*Swine flu vaccine, circa 1976 -- I'd never had a flu shot before, but I'd had allergies for years so when I started wheezing, itching and feeling like I was going to faint I took a Benadryl.

(At some point they even discussed helicopters, which was cool, but didn't happen.)

Plus I'm at risk for respiratory bad stuff. Apparently once you've had pneumonia twice, you're likely to get again, but worse.

If I could work from home for all of flu weather, I would. I hated the bit where I didn't remember anything and ended up in a hospital with no friends around because they were all sick, too. That was a few years ago, but the memory sticks. Plus since then I've passed out twice when I was ill at home, then lain on the floor for a few hours because I couldn't get up, and that was with flu shots.

And it was also because I didn't know what a Flu Pre-pack was, but now I'm going to go get the stuff to make one up. Or more. One for each floor of this place. Multiple. And my friends now know to call every couple of days to make sure I'm alright.

I don't even know what to think about all this anymore, other than that commutes are evil in flu/cold time.

Dang, I sound old, but I'm not! Just apparently susceptible to crap.

We'll see how that goes.

That could reduce attendance, no?

Anyone know if there's any reason to think the attenuated live spray-up-your-nose vaccine is any better or worse than the injection? (I got that one year, and found it more unpleasant in its own way than just getting a shot.)

Kaiser's mailing outlines who should get shot:

*Men and womene age 50 or older.

*Men and women with chronic health conditions such as asthma, diabetes, lung, heart, kidney, liver or blood problems, cancer, or impaired immune systems.

*Women who are pregnant during flu season, which can begin in early October and last as late as May.

*Health care workers.

*All children 6 months up to 18 years of age.

*Anyone living with someone in one of the above categories or with a child or teen.

Some of the area Kaiser medical centers are offering "drive-through" flu vaccine service.

On subsequent weekends, members who are not in one of the risk categories can stop by for a flu shot (if supplies last).

backup/reserve supplies of any medications you take on a regular basis

How are you supposed to get these? My insurance company won't authorize getting a month's supply of most of my meds more often than about once every 27 days. They go to considerable lengths not to *let* me stockpile.

That's quite the massive purge you've outlined. If the Kaiser wants to shoot those people, we'll fight him all the way to Flanders!

*exit, singing "Over There"*

In the past I have managed, over time, to build up a stockpile of sorts by being sure to order every 25-27 days. They give you a 30 day supply. The first month, you're three days ahead, second month, six days, third month, nine days, etc. In ten months, you'll have a thirty day supply by the time you are reoordering.

Obviously, this does not work for a new medicine right away, but for stuff you take regularly for a chronic condition, it is doable.

Then, when you get your new script, the fresh goes in your jump kit. You take the previous month's supply out of your jump kit and use that.

More generally, I wonder when this autumn's wave of Fresher's Flu is going to hit? A different institution this year, but presumably the dynamics are the same - a wave of kids from the four corners of the nation, and plenty of other places too, turning up in late September, and kissing a hell of a lot. Give it a couple of weeks for horizontal gene transfer and natural selection, and something horrible will be in the works.

How are you supposed to get these? My insurance company won't authorize getting a month's supply of most of my meds more often than about once every 27 days. They go to considerable lengths not to *let* me stockpile.

I paid out-of-pocket for the cheap blood-pressure meds ($10 for 90 days at Target) with a separate prescription from my helpful doctor. For the more expensive drugs, we conspired to make some well-timed dosage changes, so it only cost a couple of co-pays.

Now that's a euphemism I hadn't heard of before. heh.

Is the Flu Mist (nasal spray) a viable option? I work in a K-8 school, have asthma, and live with someone who has regular Remicade infusions.

Janet, #30, I got my "come in and get your shot" mailer from Kaiser this week, too. But I can't stand as long as they require at the closest center that gives flu shots, so since I need to see my primary about this ear thing anyway, I'll just get my shot then.

Alex, #35, Georgetown has had norovirus already.

Over here, the NHS only provides flu shots for risk groups -- the rest have to go private. So some corporations will call up a private health provider to arrange vaccinations for their employees. And that is my job for the next couple of months. Fuck private healthcare, yeah! but temps need to eat, too.

My understanding is you should get it ASAP, because it takes two weeks for your immune system to be fully ready to fight the flu after you get the shot. People in higher-risk groups in general are encouraged to get the shot early--there's been times supplies run out.

It is the same shot**.

I can guess why the shot could make you feel like a carrier. In the day or two after the shot, as your body reacts (notices the antigens*, creates antibodies), you can feel a bit like you're coming down with illness.

Since the flu shot is made of dead (inactivated) viruses, you're not infected, and you're not infectious, even if it feels that way.

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* anything that triggers the immune system into fighting an invader, for example patterns of molecules on the outside of bacteria or viruses. The immune system then creates antibodies designed to fight that specific antigen.

** many months earlier, researchers in China and elsewhere find flu strains that are likely to take off. The vaccine is made of what they think are the three most likely strains.

I remember getting the Swine Flu shot way back when (the US military were the only people who got the shot, as it turned out). I had to stand watch that same night, and boy did I feel like I was going to die.

In the past few years there's also been the spray version of the vaccine. It contains live attenuated (weakened) virus*. Because it causes a real infection, that version is not recommended for people susceptible to complications from the flu (Table 1's footnotes details who that is).

Here's a CDC science paper summarizing the differences between the live virus (LAIV) and attenuated virus (TIV) vaccines. In the "side effects" summary they say that the LAIV did increase asthma symtoms in one study of small children, and that there haven't been studies that could show safety in other at-risk groups. Without additional data LAIV can't be used in those groups.

People who get FluMist shed viruses for about 8 days. They're generally not infectious. However, researchers don't have data on how these shed viruses could affect vulnerable immunosuppressed people (people being protected, such as after a transplant), so in that case people in contact with them must have TIV instead. LAIV is fine for people who come in contact with other at-risk groups, the paper says.

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The virus has the same antigens as the regular virus, but it's engineered to reproduce well at 60F/15C (for mass production) but not at 98F/38-39C (lower airway temperatures). That way it infects nasal tissues (and the immune system makes antibodies) but doesn't infect the lungs.

If not, start shopping around. Some Boots stores are holding flu clinics (England only), but I'm not sure how much it costs. Somewhere between £10-20, though.

But then last year some unusually virulent creeping crud went around the department, and my boss and I both were knocked out of commission for most of a month. It was definitely viral but wasn't all that flu-like. That said, between that and allergy to cigarette smoke (not good on a college campus, but I'm a glutton for punishment) my doctor insisted I get a flu shot early this year.

At least they have weekly flu clinics on campus.

Arachne @ 23: Bainbridge? (Or, as my friend over in Kingston calls it, just to give me a bad time for living here, "Braindead.")

glinda #52 - Yep. Hi!

#24, JESR - Your shower head is a vector? Elaborate, please?

There's a nice list of links on pediatric flu vaccines and preservatives, including FDA stuff out there. Sure, not much mercury in a single shot. There are folks who feel that multiple immunizations in close time proximity added up to autism though.

You may have to ask around a bit, but apparently you can get a thimerosol-free flu shot, and for kids and pregnant women, its especially recommended. Allegedly the type of mercury in thimerosol differs from the type in your "small can of tuna fish" (the "how could this be dangerous, it's the same as" object), in that it is a type more likely to build up in the brain.