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      <title>Making Light :: Reports and False Reports :: comments</title>
      <link>http://nielsenhayden.com/makinglight/archives/010765.html#comments </link>
      <description>Language, fraud, folly, truth, history, and knitting. Et cetera.</description>
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      <lastBuildDate>Fri, 07 Nov 2008 07:42:24 -0500</lastBuildDate>
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      <title>Reports and False Reports</title>
      <description>From Daniel Nasaw, The Guardian, &quot;McCain campaign distributing reports of 'Election Day irregularities'&quot;: The McCain campaign is collecting reports of...</description>
      <content:encoded>From Daniel Nasaw, The Guardian, "McCain campaign distributing reports of 'Election Day irregularities'": The McCain campaign is collecting reports of...</content:encoded>
      <link>http://nielsenhayden.com/makinglight/archives/010765.html</link>
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         <title>Reports and False Reports -- comment #1 from Lylassandra</title>
         <description>comment from Lylassandra on  4.Nov.08</description>
         <content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I don't know who's behind it, but my dad just got hit with some 'irregularities' as he went to vote-- they refused to let him on the grounds that, since no one in the area had offered their garage or whatever as a polling place, all the area votes had to be submitted by mail. </p>

<p>I will pause to let that absorb.</p>

<p>He made a scene, got to vote and got a complaint form... but I can't help but wonder what happened to all the other people they fed that line to. Absentee votes have to be received by today to count here, I believe. And it's not even like it's a rural area and they can claim that driving out to the polls is a hardship; this is a suburb of San Diego, for god's sake! I am livid, and I don't even want to know how my dad feels about it.</p>]]>
	 &lt;p&gt;Posted November  4, 2008  8:19 PM by Lylassandra&lt;/p&gt;</content:encoded>
         <link>http://nielsenhayden.com/makinglight/archives/010765.html#305308</link>
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         <pubDate>Tue, 04 Nov 2008 20:19:37 -0500</pubDate>
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         <title>Reports and False Reports -- comment #2 from Fragano Ledgister</title>
         <description>comment from Fragano Ledgister on  4.Nov.08</description>
         <content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Ah, what we have here is the creation of a Dolchstoss narrative.</p>]]>
	 &lt;p&gt;Posted November  4, 2008  8:19 PM by Fragano Ledgister&lt;/p&gt;</content:encoded>
         <link>http://nielsenhayden.com/makinglight/archives/010765.html#305309</link>
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         <pubDate>Tue, 04 Nov 2008 20:19:42 -0500</pubDate>
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         <title>Reports and False Reports -- comment #3 from Terry Karney</title>
         <description>comment from Terry Karney on  4.Nov.08</description>
         <content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Typical.</p>

<p>I had no intimidation at my polling place, but there was one which had the ballots disappear between last night and this morning, and another which had the machine refusing to accept ballots.</p>]]>
	 &lt;p&gt;Posted November  4, 2008  8:19 PM by Terry Karney&lt;/p&gt;</content:encoded>
         <link>http://nielsenhayden.com/makinglight/archives/010765.html#305310</link>
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         <pubDate>Tue, 04 Nov 2008 20:19:53 -0500</pubDate>
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         <title>Reports and False Reports -- comment #4 from Raphael</title>
         <description>comment from Raphael on  4.Nov.08</description>
         <content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>What are they supposed to have done- stopped people from getting in? Followed people into the boots? The former would probably have been pretty dumb if you assume they were Obama supporters, given how Obama-friendly Philly seems to be, and if the latter had happened, the reports wouldn't have centered on footage of them outside. </p>]]>
	 &lt;p&gt;Posted November  4, 2008  8:32 PM by Raphael&lt;/p&gt;</content:encoded>
         <link>http://nielsenhayden.com/makinglight/archives/010765.html#305344</link>
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         <pubDate>Tue, 04 Nov 2008 20:32:41 -0500</pubDate>
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         <title>Reports and False Reports -- comment #5 from Lee</title>
         <description>comment from Lee on  4.Nov.08</description>
         <content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Raphael, #4: They were there, and they were black. Given the amount of race-baiting the McCampaign has already done, wouldn't you think that was enough to get them started? <br />
</p>]]>
	 &lt;p&gt;Posted November  4, 2008  8:48 PM by Lee&lt;/p&gt;</content:encoded>
         <link>http://nielsenhayden.com/makinglight/archives/010765.html#305378</link>
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         <pubDate>Tue, 04 Nov 2008 20:48:23 -0500</pubDate>
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         <title>Reports and False Reports -- comment #6 from P J Evans</title>
         <description>comment from P J Evans on  4.Nov.08</description>
         <content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>The scanner at my polling place wasn't working.</p>]]>
	 &lt;p&gt;Posted November  4, 2008  8:54 PM by P J Evans&lt;/p&gt;</content:encoded>
         <link>http://nielsenhayden.com/makinglight/archives/010765.html#305389</link>
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         <pubDate>Tue, 04 Nov 2008 20:54:10 -0500</pubDate>
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         <title>Reports and False Reports -- comment #7 from Teresa Nielsen Hayden</title>
         <description>comment from Teresa Nielsen Hayden on  4.Nov.08</description>
         <content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I keep trying to re-upload the main entry and say you should read the account of it at Talking Points Memo. It starts with McCain operatives turning up to provoke the guys. A few hours later, it ends with the police who come to check it out not even getting out of their car. Do have a look.</p>]]>
	 &lt;p&gt;Posted November  4, 2008  8:58 PM by Teresa Nielsen Hayden&lt;/p&gt;</content:encoded>
         <link>http://nielsenhayden.com/makinglight/archives/010765.html#305394</link>
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         <pubDate>Tue, 04 Nov 2008 20:58:26 -0500</pubDate>
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         <title>Reports and False Reports -- comment #8 from nickcan</title>
         <description>comment from nickcan on  4.Nov.08</description>
         <content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I don't think it's about preparing a case to contest the legitimacy of the election.  It's more about sowing doubt and stealing a mandate.  If there is the thought that Democrats are using "dirty tricks" to win then it lessens their victory this year.</p>

<p>It's really dispicable, calling into doubt the foundation of our democracy in order to cast a little doubt on the other guy's big win.</p>]]>
	 &lt;p&gt;Posted November  4, 2008  9:03 PM by nickcan&lt;/p&gt;</content:encoded>
         <link>http://nielsenhayden.com/makinglight/archives/010765.html#305407</link>
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         <pubDate>Tue, 04 Nov 2008 21:03:24 -0500</pubDate>
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         <title>Reports and False Reports -- comment #9 from Don Fitch</title>
         <description>comment from Don Fitch on  4.Nov.08</description>
         <content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>#1  Lylassandra:</p>

<p>I semi-like the idea of sending in all ballots by mail (even though I also like the ritual aspects of going to the neighborhood polling-place), but the idea of instituting that at the last moment is proving difficult to absorb.  Maybe even impossible. </p>

<p>I, for one, really want to know the details.  If no place was offered, how did he know where to go? Had he been sent a ballot in the mail, with instructions to return it by mail?   (I've not previously heard of how CA handles situations like that.)  I think I'd also enjoy learning how he feels about it, if you feel like coping with posting a short form.  <br />
 </p>]]>
	 &lt;p&gt;Posted November  4, 2008  9:07 PM by Don Fitch&lt;/p&gt;</content:encoded>
         <link>http://nielsenhayden.com/makinglight/archives/010765.html#305420</link>
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         <pubDate>Tue, 04 Nov 2008 21:07:18 -0500</pubDate>
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         <title>Reports and False Reports -- comment #10 from Teresa Nielsen Hayden</title>
         <description>comment from Teresa Nielsen Hayden on  4.Nov.08</description>
         <content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Nickcan, they've already cast doubts on our patriotism and said we aren't real Americans. Why should they stop at that?</p>

<p>This is where John McCain loses all vestiges of honor. He's willing to smear his fellow Americans and bring democracy itself into doubt, when he doesn't even have the excuse of wanting to win. It's just vindictiveness and vandalism.</p>]]>
	 &lt;p&gt;Posted November  4, 2008  9:12 PM by Teresa Nielsen Hayden&lt;/p&gt;</content:encoded>
         <link>http://nielsenhayden.com/makinglight/archives/010765.html#305428</link>
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         <pubDate>Tue, 04 Nov 2008 21:12:33 -0500</pubDate>
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         <title>Reports and False Reports -- comment #11 from linnen</title>
         <description>comment from linnen on  4.Nov.08</description>
         <content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>The 'Irregularities' will be reported and that is as close as the MSM will go. As long as the narrative is 'doubt exists over a Democratic President's election', that is how the MSM will play it.</p>]]>
	 &lt;p&gt;Posted November  4, 2008  9:14 PM by linnen&lt;/p&gt;</content:encoded>
         <link>http://nielsenhayden.com/makinglight/archives/010765.html#305433</link>
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         <pubDate>Tue, 04 Nov 2008 21:14:07 -0500</pubDate>
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         <title>Reports and False Reports -- comment #12 from Teresa Nielsen Hayden</title>
         <description>comment from Teresa Nielsen Hayden on  4.Nov.08</description>
         <content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Don, sometimes the best lies are the semi-random ones.</p>]]>
	 &lt;p&gt;Posted November  4, 2008  9:15 PM by Teresa Nielsen Hayden&lt;/p&gt;</content:encoded>
         <link>http://nielsenhayden.com/makinglight/archives/010765.html#305435</link>
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         <pubDate>Tue, 04 Nov 2008 21:15:49 -0500</pubDate>
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         <title>Reports and False Reports -- comment #13 from Tom Barclay</title>
         <description>comment from Tom Barclay on  4.Nov.08</description>
         <content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>#1 Lylassandra:</p>

<p>Please ask your father to let MoveOn and the Obama campaign know about this. <br />
</p>]]>
	 &lt;p&gt;Posted November  4, 2008  9:32 PM by Tom Barclay&lt;/p&gt;</content:encoded>
         <link>http://nielsenhayden.com/makinglight/archives/010765.html#305477</link>
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         <pubDate>Tue, 04 Nov 2008 21:32:19 -0500</pubDate>
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         <title>Reports and False Reports -- comment #14 from Lenny Bailes</title>
         <description>comment from Lenny Bailes on  4.Nov.08</description>
         <content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Kevin Roberts, media spokesman for the California Republican Party, just appeared on KTVU (a local San Francisco Fox affiliate). He announced Republican intention to file a lawsuit about alleged robocalls made by Democratic party operatives in San Francisco District 11.  Roberts claims these robocalls are being made to registered Republican voters announcing that the California polls have officially closed. Nothing about it on Google.</p>]]>
	 &lt;p&gt;Posted November  4, 2008  9:57 PM by Lenny Bailes&lt;/p&gt;</content:encoded>
         <link>http://nielsenhayden.com/makinglight/archives/010765.html#305487</link>
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         <pubDate>Tue, 04 Nov 2008 21:57:30 -0500</pubDate>
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         <title>Reports and False Reports -- comment #15 from Teresa Nielsen Hayden</title>
         <description>comment from Teresa Nielsen Hayden on  4.Nov.08</description>
         <content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>And even if it were on Google, that wouldn't be evidence that the Democrats did it.</p>

<p>Was Kevin Roberts noticeably drunk? California hasn't been in doubt for some time now. Given that the Democrats have a strong lead, why would they use a despicable last-minute tactic like telling people the polls had closed early? </p>

<p>Unless Roberts is deranged, he's just poisoning the well.</p>]]>
	 &lt;p&gt;Posted November  4, 2008 10:13 PM by Teresa Nielsen Hayden&lt;/p&gt;</content:encoded>
         <link>http://nielsenhayden.com/makinglight/archives/010765.html#305530</link>
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         <pubDate>Tue, 04 Nov 2008 22:13:34 -0500</pubDate>
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         <title>Reports and False Reports -- comment #16 from Kip W</title>
         <description>comment from Kip W on  4.Nov.08</description>
         <content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Or both. I'd believe morally deranged, and not even believing they can affect the race by playing the ump now. It's enough in their minds if they can just cast some doubt that will linger in the minds of the gullible until next time. And it's an excuse to throw rocks and stuff like that, too.</p>]]>
	 &lt;p&gt;Posted November  4, 2008 10:21 PM by Kip W&lt;/p&gt;</content:encoded>
         <link>http://nielsenhayden.com/makinglight/archives/010765.html#305544</link>
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         <pubDate>Tue, 04 Nov 2008 22:21:12 -0500</pubDate>
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         <title>Reports and False Reports -- comment #17 from Lylassandra</title>
         <description>comment from Lylassandra on  4.Nov.08</description>
         <content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>@9: Oh, my mom, husband and I all vote absentee; the mail part wouldn't bother me but for two points: I think that requiring people to pay a fee to vote (though granted, a stamp is a small one) is illegal, and secondly, anyone hearing about this today and trying to vote by mail is SOL.</p>

<p>As for where he went, I got this all from my mom, so I'm not sure how that part of the story played out. But my parents are dedicated voters and their polling place has suddenly changed the last year or so. He would have had to check the back of his voter info pamphlet to go anywhere. (It used to be in the National Guard Armory, but at least the primary and possibly the election before that were at an old church.)</p>

<p>As for how my dad felt about it... I'm not sure I can repeat his sentiments in polite company.</p>]]>
	 &lt;p&gt;Posted November  4, 2008 11:07 PM by Lylassandra&lt;/p&gt;</content:encoded>
         <link>http://nielsenhayden.com/makinglight/archives/010765.html#305659</link>
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         <pubDate>Tue, 04 Nov 2008 23:07:28 -0500</pubDate>
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         <title>Reports and False Reports -- comment #18 from Erik Nelson</title>
         <description>comment from Erik Nelson on  4.Nov.08</description>
         <content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I looked at fivethirtyeight.com a while ago and there was a banner ad inviting me to make a contribution to something called the McCain/Palin Compliance Fund or something like that. I had trouble finding an explanation of what they were trying to do, just the form you fill out to send the contribution.</p>]]>
	 &lt;p&gt;Posted November  4, 2008 11:14 PM by Erik Nelson&lt;/p&gt;</content:encoded>
         <link>http://nielsenhayden.com/makinglight/archives/010765.html#305681</link>
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         <pubDate>Tue, 04 Nov 2008 23:14:35 -0500</pubDate>
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         <title>Reports and False Reports -- comment #19 from Raphael</title>
         <description>comment from Raphael on  4.Nov.08</description>
         <content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Erik Nelson @18, do Palin and McCain have any outstanding campaign debts?</p>]]>
	 &lt;p&gt;Posted November  4, 2008 11:33 PM by Raphael&lt;/p&gt;</content:encoded>
         <link>http://nielsenhayden.com/makinglight/archives/010765.html#305752</link>
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         <pubDate>Tue, 04 Nov 2008 23:33:45 -0500</pubDate>
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         <title>Reports and False Reports -- comment #20 from Lylassandra</title>
         <description>comment from Lylassandra on  5.Nov.08</description>
         <content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>And we won anyway!!!</p>]]>
	 &lt;p&gt;Posted November  5, 2008 12:33 AM by Lylassandra&lt;/p&gt;</content:encoded>
         <link>http://nielsenhayden.com/makinglight/archives/010765.html#305892</link>
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         <pubDate>Wed, 05 Nov 2008 00:33:24 -0500</pubDate>
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         <title>Reports and False Reports -- comment #21 from John F</title>
         <description>comment from John F on  5.Nov.08</description>
         <content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Lylassandra @1 and Don Fitch @9:</p>

<p>I live in Riverside County (just north of San Diego County), and I am in a mail-in precinct as well.  I received the same "surprise" in the 2004 general election, at the same polling place I'd voted for the primary.  I can empathize - it can come as a heck of a shock to go to "your" polling place and have them tell you your name is not on the rolls.  At the time, they let me vote a provisional ballot and provided a receipt and a number to call to verify that my vote was counted.  </p>

<p>Always check your sample ballot, kids! When I got home, I sheepishly found both my sample ballot (with the "mail-in" designation clearly marked in the spot where the polling place normally appears), and the actual ballot in a pile of unsorted mail.</p>

<p>Same story this year.  I voted "normally" in the primary, but received a mail-in ballot for the general election.  Stamps are not required - the mail-in ballots can be dropped off at any polling place in the county on Election Day.   </p>]]>
	 &lt;p&gt;Posted November  5, 2008  2:21 AM by John F&lt;/p&gt;</content:encoded>
         <link>http://nielsenhayden.com/makinglight/archives/010765.html#305989</link>
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         <pubDate>Wed, 05 Nov 2008 02:21:06 -0500</pubDate>
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         <title>Reports and False Reports -- comment #22 from Nicole J. LeBoeuf-Little</title>
         <description>comment from Nicole J. LeBoeuf-Little on  5.Nov.08</description>
         <content:encoded><![CDATA[<p><em>I think that requiring people to pay a fee to vote (though granted, a stamp is a small one) is illegal</em></p>

<p>And Oregon holds every single vote by mail.</p>

<p>I'm wondering how that can be, because you're right that the postage stamp amounts to a poll tax.</p>

<p>I presume that counties in Oregon, as here in Colorado, have drop-off locations that mail ballots can be handed off at, as well? And maybe having that free drop-off alternative is enough to refrain from casting doubt on the legality of the mail ballot?</p>

<p>(I do like the mail-in option. I like spending time with my ballot and my computer, unhurried, looking up stuff and making informed decisions at home.)</p>]]>
	 &lt;p&gt;Posted November  5, 2008  2:21 AM by Nicole J. LeBoeuf-Little&lt;/p&gt;</content:encoded>
         <link>http://nielsenhayden.com/makinglight/archives/010765.html#305990</link>
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         <pubDate>Wed, 05 Nov 2008 02:21:37 -0500</pubDate>
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         <title>Reports and False Reports -- comment #23 from David Goldfarb</title>
         <description>comment from David Goldfarb on  5.Nov.08</description>
         <content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>The envelope on my absentee ballot said "No Postage Necessary if Mailed in the United States".  I went and dropped it off by hand at the courthouse anyway.</p>]]>
	 &lt;p&gt;Posted November  5, 2008  5:45 AM by David Goldfarb&lt;/p&gt;</content:encoded>
         <link>http://nielsenhayden.com/makinglight/archives/010765.html#306036</link>
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         <pubDate>Wed, 05 Nov 2008 05:45:48 -0500</pubDate>
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         <title>Reports and False Reports -- comment #24 from Lylassandra</title>
         <description>comment from Lylassandra on  5.Nov.08</description>
         <content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>@23: What state do you live in? Because I'm now a fan.</p>]]>
	 &lt;p&gt;Posted November  5, 2008  1:22 PM by Lylassandra&lt;/p&gt;</content:encoded>
         <link>http://nielsenhayden.com/makinglight/archives/010765.html#306185</link>
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         <pubDate>Wed, 05 Nov 2008 13:22:24 -0500</pubDate>
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         <title>Reports and False Reports -- comment #25 from Tim Walters</title>
         <description>comment from Tim Walters on  5.Nov.08</description>
         <content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>TNH @ 15: <i>Given that the Democrats have a strong lead, why would they use a despicable last-minute tactic like telling people the polls had closed early?</i></p>

<p>In SF District 11 the Democrat is the (relatively) conservative candidate for City Council, and so might benefit from low turnout.</p>

<p>I live in District 11, have met the Democrat in question, and don't believe the charge for a second, but it's not self-contradictory if you define his self-interest narrowly enough.<br />
</p>]]>
	 &lt;p&gt;Posted November  5, 2008  2:04 PM by Tim Walters&lt;/p&gt;</content:encoded>
         <link>http://nielsenhayden.com/makinglight/archives/010765.html#306201</link>
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         <pubDate>Wed, 05 Nov 2008 14:04:44 -0500</pubDate>
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         <title>Reports and False Reports -- comment #26 from Ursula L</title>
         <description>comment from Ursula L on  5.Nov.08</description>
         <content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>How do states with mail-in ballots (particularly when they are the only option) ensure that the ballot is secret?</p>

<p>It seems to me that a mail-in ballot eliminates the protection of the secret ballot.  There is nothing to prevent an employer from making their employees show them the ballots, and "suggesting" a particular vote, or, in abusive relationships, the abuser forcing the victem to vote a certain way.  </p>

<p>The voting booth is <i>safe</i> - whatever dangers you may face outside it, no one knows how you vote, and you can remain silent or lie about how you voted if needed. </p>

<p>A mail-in ballot sent to the home?  Not so safe.  </p>]]>
	 &lt;p&gt;Posted November  5, 2008  3:21 PM by Ursula L&lt;/p&gt;</content:encoded>
         <link>http://nielsenhayden.com/makinglight/archives/010765.html#306226</link>
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         <pubDate>Wed, 05 Nov 2008 15:21:26 -0500</pubDate>
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         <title>Reports and False Reports -- comment #27 from Lylassandra</title>
         <description>comment from Lylassandra on  5.Nov.08</description>
         <content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>@26: Oddly enough, I had never considered that aspect of it, though I have occasionally wondered about the reliability of whoever plucks the votes from the mail and counts them.</p>]]>
	 &lt;p&gt;Posted November  5, 2008  6:39 PM by Lylassandra&lt;/p&gt;</content:encoded>
         <link>http://nielsenhayden.com/makinglight/archives/010765.html#306304</link>
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         <pubDate>Wed, 05 Nov 2008 18:39:06 -0500</pubDate>
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         <title>Reports and False Reports -- comment #28 from Brooks Moses</title>
         <description>comment from Brooks Moses on  6.Nov.08</description>
         <content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Lylassandra @24: David's in California, unless he moved when I wasn't paying attention (which I strongly doubt!).</p>]]>
	 &lt;p&gt;Posted November  6, 2008 12:27 AM by Brooks Moses&lt;/p&gt;</content:encoded>
         <link>http://nielsenhayden.com/makinglight/archives/010765.html#306381</link>
         <guid isPermaLink="true">http://nielsenhayden.com/makinglight/archives/010765.html#306381</guid>
         <pubDate>Thu, 06 Nov 2008 00:27:54 -0500</pubDate>
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      <item>
         <title>Reports and False Reports -- comment #29 from David Goldfarb</title>
         <description>comment from David Goldfarb on  7.Nov.08</description>
         <content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Brooks@28: A move in the near future is not inconceivable, depending on who ultimately hires Katie.  But for now, yes, California.</p>]]>
	 &lt;p&gt;Posted November  7, 2008  7:42 AM by David Goldfarb&lt;/p&gt;</content:encoded>
         <link>http://nielsenhayden.com/makinglight/archives/010765.html#306657</link>
         <guid isPermaLink="true">http://nielsenhayden.com/makinglight/archives/010765.html#306657</guid>
         <pubDate>Fri, 07 Nov 2008 07:42:24 -0500</pubDate>
      </item>
      
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