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      <title>Making Light :: The real marketplace of ideas :: comments</title>
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      <description>Language, fraud, folly, truth, history, and knitting. Et cetera.</description>
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      <title>The real marketplace of ideas</title>
      <description>This morning in Talking Points Memo, Josh Marshall discusses a startlingly apt piece by conservative columnist Christopher Caldwell, in his...</description>
      <content:encoded>This morning in Talking Points Memo, Josh Marshall discusses a startlingly apt piece by conservative columnist Christopher Caldwell, in his...</content:encoded>
      <link>http://nielsenhayden.com/makinglight/archives/000366.html</link>
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         <title>The real marketplace of ideas -- comment #1 from Ulrika O&apos;Brien</title>
         <description>comment from Ulrika O'Brien on 22.Jul.02</description>
         <content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Ted Barlow first called my attention to the<br />
Caldwell article.  He thinks it may signal a<br />
sea change of sorts that a conservative is now<br />
bashing away at Bush this hard.</p>]]>
	 &lt;p&gt;Posted July 22, 2002  6:21 PM by Ulrika O&apos;Brien&lt;/p&gt;</content:encoded>
         <link>http://nielsenhayden.com/makinglight/archives/000366.html#1466</link>
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         <pubDate>Mon, 22 Jul 2002 18:21:19 -0500</pubDate>
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         <title>The real marketplace of ideas -- comment #2 from John M. Ford</title>
         <description>comment from John M. Ford on 22.Jul.02</description>
         <content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Possibly, though it may also indicate a decision that B-sub-2 is no longer re-electable.  The Pentagon said today that they wanted a really good reason before they got stuck with invading Iraq, which implies that the War Leader meme is dying.  This would begin the process of defining who (or, to be rude but perhaps more accurate, what), under the foreseeable circumstances, will be placed on the Republican bailout.  Ballot.  Whatever.</p>]]>
	 &lt;p&gt;Posted July 22, 2002  8:45 PM by John M. Ford&lt;/p&gt;</content:encoded>
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         <pubDate>Mon, 22 Jul 2002 20:45:33 -0500</pubDate>
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         <title>The real marketplace of ideas -- comment #3 from Christopher Hatton</title>
         <description>comment from Christopher Hatton on 22.Jul.02</description>
         <content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Mr. Ford, from your lips to gods' ears on the first part.</p>

<p>As for the second, I think 'what' is more accurate, and not at all rude.  The GOP candidate will be defined on paper first (using market research and focus groups).  Only then will actual 'who's be identified, by their fit with the design paradigm and ability to adapt to fit it better. Then a bunch of joke primaries, a joke convention, and a vacuous figurehead will stand up for his photo op.  </p>

<p>At this point we will be constrained by courtesy to say 'who' again.</p>

<p>The Democrats, meanwhile, will have 10,000 candidates, who will tear each other into little bits by the end.  The one survivor (perhaps a decent chap, but not nearly as good as the guys he destroyed in the Iowa caucuses) will be so tarred with the effluvia thrown at him by his own party that the GOP will hardly need to run attack ads, so they won't: but all kinds of front organizations will.</p>

<p>If the numbers are close, crypto-Republican Ralph Nader will run again, in case a spoiler candidate might do some good. Or evil.</p>

<p>The American people, in their infinite wisdom, will vote for the candidate who's taller, or who looks best on TV, or who projects the most optimism, or who they'd like to sleep with. The networks will call states before their polls even close, and Hawaii will once again be irrelevant; the losing candidate will concede before they even vote.</p>

<p>Only once since I started voting has this process resulted in a President who seemed to know anything about anything, and who seemed, moreover, to care about the good of America, and not just feeding the Enrons and Worldcoms their steady diet of ripoff profits and political favors.</p>

<p>I still hope, though. And I vote every time I have a chance.  I figure at least the next time some Brit says "your President," I can say "I didn't vote for him," cold comfort though that is.  I wish we could have Tony Blair.  I like him, though that may be out of ignorance.</p>

<p>There've always been Starkadders.</p>]]>
	 &lt;p&gt;Posted July 22, 2002 11:34 PM by Christopher Hatton&lt;/p&gt;</content:encoded>
         <link>http://nielsenhayden.com/makinglight/archives/000366.html#1475</link>
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         <pubDate>Mon, 22 Jul 2002 23:34:53 -0500</pubDate>
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         <title>The real marketplace of ideas -- comment #4 from Bob Webber</title>
         <description>comment from Bob Webber on 23.Jul.02</description>
         <content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>My cynical Canadian gut tells me that George III will Ride Again, but that Mr Cheney will excuse himself because of his health (and to avoid the Silence of the Agnews) quite soon and a plausible Marble Head (a Republican Al Gore, perhaps John McCain) wheeled in to give the Tin Man a Heart, so to speak.  But it's too long until the next presidential election for the residue of Financial Cheating Discovered to have much influence on the occupancy of the White House.</p>

<p>Also, if America refuses further Bushwhacking at some point, they'd have a Cincinnatus ready in line to serve out the balance of a term and lose in the subsequent primaries.</p>]]>
	 &lt;p&gt;Posted July 23, 2002 12:04 AM by Bob Webber&lt;/p&gt;</content:encoded>
         <link>http://nielsenhayden.com/makinglight/archives/000366.html#1476</link>
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         <pubDate>Tue, 23 Jul 2002 00:04:40 -0500</pubDate>
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         <title>The real marketplace of ideas -- comment #5 from Janet Lafler</title>
         <description>comment from Janet Lafler on 23.Jul.02</description>
         <content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I think it's highly unlikely that W. will not be the next republican nominee. Even if the party brass doesn't think he's re-electable (or rather, electable, since he wasn't elected to this term), it looks very bad for a party not to re-nominate the president.</p>

<p>I do think it's likely that he will be paired with a new VP. I don't think McCain would do it -- he clearly likes being able to speak his mind, which he would not be able to do as Bush's VP -- but various ideas that I've heard floated include John Ashcroft (be afraid) and Condoleeza Rice (who would probably bring some voters that ought to know better to vote for the ticket, but would scare off a lot of voters, too). Or someone else associated with "the war on terror."</p>]]>
	 &lt;p&gt;Posted July 23, 2002 12:47 PM by Janet Lafler&lt;/p&gt;</content:encoded>
         <link>http://nielsenhayden.com/makinglight/archives/000366.html#1485</link>
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         <pubDate>Tue, 23 Jul 2002 12:47:29 -0500</pubDate>
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         <title>The real marketplace of ideas -- comment #6 from Teresa Nielsen Hayden</title>
         <description>comment from Teresa Nielsen Hayden on 24.Jul.02</description>
         <content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>It would take a lot for Dubya to not be the next Republican nominee.</p>

<p>Ever since the South Carolina primaries, the chances of McCain joining forces with Mr. Bush have been very, very slight. They might do it if aliens were invading the planet and they were the only two people left who knew how to find and activate the hidden superweapon left here by a different batch of aliens.</p>

<p>Ashcroft's star is not in the ascendant. The religious far right doesn't like his proposed internal security measures, most likely because they find it easy to imagine themselves being the target of them. And Mr. Ashcroft himself has not been endearing himself to the administration by continuing to act like a showboating senator, rather than a well-disciplined team player. That's not good. The Bushes are particular about their house servants.</p>

<p>Mike, how firmly did the Pentagon say that? What was the context? That's interesting.</p>]]>
	 &lt;p&gt;Posted July 24, 2002  7:26 AM by Teresa Nielsen Hayden&lt;/p&gt;</content:encoded>
         <link>http://nielsenhayden.com/makinglight/archives/000366.html#1488</link>
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         <pubDate>Wed, 24 Jul 2002 07:26:55 -0500</pubDate>
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         <title>The real marketplace of ideas -- comment #7 from Patrick Nielsen Hayden</title>
         <description>comment from Patrick Nielsen Hayden on 24.Jul.02</description>
         <content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Knowing Christopher Hatton's outlook and views on a lot of things, I think he would be a <i>lot</i> less impressed with Tony Blair if he knew more about him.  Frankly.</p>

<p>My own guess about 2004 is that Bush will be renominated (duh) and that Cheney will bow out "for health reasons."  If the GOP is smart they'll replace him with Condeleeza Rice.  If the GOP were smart, they wouldn't be known as "the stupid party."</p>

<p>John McCain will run as an independent.</p>

<p>The Democrats will nominate Al Gore.  Particularly given their newly-foreshortened primary season, which was designed to produce a clear frontrunner quickly and which will act to amplify Gore's natural advantages: the loyalty of a lot of the party's rank-and-file grass-roots activists.  </p>

<p>I'm probably wrong about every single detail in the above predictions.  In fact, the 2002 elections will give the House to the Democrats and the Senate back to the Republicans, by a hair in each direction.  George W. Bush will resign in mid-2003 as revelations emerge about intimate connections between the Bush family, the Bin Laden clan, and Skull and Bones.  Two weeks later, President Cheney will expire of a massive heart attack brought on by apoplexy.  Under pressure to conduct a bipartisan Administration, President Gephardt will retain many Bush/Cheney Cabinet members, and will submit Sen. Joseph Lieberman's name as his nominee for Vice President.  In a bitter confirmation battle, Lieberman will be rejected by the Republican Senate when it is discovered that, hard though it may seem to believe, the Connecticut senator is actually a Democrat.  Meanwhile, following the announcement of John McCain's candidacy as an independent, the Republican party will nominate George Pataki for President and, as a historic gesture and a slap to McCain, Arizona Governor Jane Hull.  On August 31, 2004, the aliens will land.</p>]]>
	 &lt;p&gt;Posted July 24, 2002  8:34 AM by Patrick Nielsen Hayden&lt;/p&gt;</content:encoded>
         <link>http://nielsenhayden.com/makinglight/archives/000366.html#1490</link>
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         <pubDate>Wed, 24 Jul 2002 08:34:12 -0500</pubDate>
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         <title>The real marketplace of ideas -- comment #8 from Bob Webber</title>
         <description>comment from Bob Webber on 24.Jul.02</description>
         <content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Roll on, August 31, 2004.<br />
</p>]]>
	 &lt;p&gt;Posted July 24, 2002  8:43 AM by Bob Webber&lt;/p&gt;</content:encoded>
         <link>http://nielsenhayden.com/makinglight/archives/000366.html#1491</link>
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         <pubDate>Wed, 24 Jul 2002 08:43:49 -0500</pubDate>
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         <title>The real marketplace of ideas -- comment #9 from Erik V. Olson</title>
         <description>comment from Erik V. Olson on 24.Jul.02</description>
         <content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Will they land in Boston? If so, we'll have <a href="http://www.noreascon4.org" rel="nofollow">one hell of a welcoming party</a> for them.</p>]]>
	 &lt;p&gt;Posted July 24, 2002 10:20 AM by Erik V. Olson&lt;/p&gt;</content:encoded>
         <link>http://nielsenhayden.com/makinglight/archives/000366.html#1492</link>
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         <pubDate>Wed, 24 Jul 2002 10:20:08 -0500</pubDate>
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         <title>The real marketplace of ideas -- comment #10 from Janet Lafler</title>
         <description>comment from Janet Lafler on 24.Jul.02</description>
         <content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Teresa, I hope you're right about Ashcroft. </p>

<p>Patrick, your scenarios (both of them) are as believable as anything else I've heard.</p>]]>
	 &lt;p&gt;Posted July 24, 2002  2:49 PM by Janet Lafler&lt;/p&gt;</content:encoded>
         <link>http://nielsenhayden.com/makinglight/archives/000366.html#1496</link>
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         <pubDate>Wed, 24 Jul 2002 14:49:10 -0500</pubDate>
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         <title>The real marketplace of ideas -- comment #11 from Vicki Rosenzweig</title>
         <description>comment from Vicki Rosenzweig on 24.Jul.02</description>
         <content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>The last time an eligible incumbent (two-terms rule, now) wasn't his party's nominee was ...drum roll... 1968. I doubt we'll get into that messy a war in Iraq, or the Philippines, or wherever else the Shrub is looking.</p>

<p>Even if we do, the New Hampshire GOP primary won't be as open as the Democratic one was in 1968, and I can't quite see McCain as the anti-war candidate.</p>

<p>I'll see all of you, and the aliens, in Boston in a couple of years. (Anyone need a membership for San Jose? Discount for extraterrestrials.)</p>]]>
	 &lt;p&gt;Posted July 24, 2002  3:05 PM by Vicki Rosenzweig&lt;/p&gt;</content:encoded>
         <link>http://nielsenhayden.com/makinglight/archives/000366.html#1499</link>
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         <pubDate>Wed, 24 Jul 2002 15:05:52 -0500</pubDate>
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         <title>The real marketplace of ideas -- comment #12 from Probably-ignorant Christopher Hatton</title>
         <description>comment from Probably-ignorant Christopher Hatton on 24.Jul.02</description>
         <content:encoded><![CDATA[<p><i>Knowing Christopher Hatton's outlook and views on a lot of things, I think he would be a lot less impressed with Tony Blair if he knew more about him. Frankly.</i></p>

<p>Probably.  I've heard some ick about him too.  But he's better than That Churl, as I called her.  And Clinton was far from great, but better than...</p>

<p>And like that.  Evil.  But less so.</p>

<p>That said, maybe he's just rottenrottenrotten and I haven't heard.  Sigh.  He sounded so GREAT last October.</p>]]>
	 &lt;p&gt;Posted July 24, 2002  3:44 PM by Probably-ignorant Christopher Hatton&lt;/p&gt;</content:encoded>
         <link>http://nielsenhayden.com/makinglight/archives/000366.html#1503</link>
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         <pubDate>Wed, 24 Jul 2002 15:44:29 -0500</pubDate>
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         <title>The real marketplace of ideas -- comment #13 from Tim Frayser</title>
         <description>comment from Tim Frayser on 24.Jul.02</description>
         <content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>What cracks me up is that lots of other presidents have been the subject of movies. Washington, Lincoln, Truman, Roosevelt-- they were all president during times of strife, and they all had movies made about their lives. If someone ever makes a movie about Bush, how will the producers handle his going AWOL for a year, or the Harken deal, or his drinking & cocaine use, or Skull & Bones, or his shady business dealings, or his running like a rabbit on Sept. 11th, or his lifetime of privilege and luxury? I doubt even Industrial Light & Magic could make this guy look good.</p>

<p>"Shrub: the Movie!"... I'm thinking direct to video, for sure. </p>]]>
	 &lt;p&gt;Posted July 24, 2002  4:01 PM by Tim Frayser&lt;/p&gt;</content:encoded>
         <link>http://nielsenhayden.com/makinglight/archives/000366.html#1505</link>
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         <pubDate>Wed, 24 Jul 2002 16:01:09 -0500</pubDate>
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         <title>The real marketplace of ideas -- comment #14 from Jeremy Leader finds comment spam</title>
         <description>comment from Jeremy Leader finds comment spam on 13.Jan.04</description>
         <content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Comment spam, directly above (until Teresa sees this).</p>]]>
	 &lt;p&gt;Posted January 13, 2004  6:30 PM by Jeremy Leader finds comment spam&lt;/p&gt;</content:encoded>
         <link>http://nielsenhayden.com/makinglight/archives/000366.html#37046</link>
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         <pubDate>Tue, 13 Jan 2004 18:30:02 -0500</pubDate>
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         <title>The real marketplace of ideas -- comment #15 from PNH is on the case</title>
         <description>comment from PNH is on the case on 13.Jan.04</description>
         <content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>It ain't Teresa who's been primarily on patrol the last couple of days, he grumbled.  Mildly.  Ever so mildly.</p>]]>
	 &lt;p&gt;Posted January 13, 2004  7:46 PM by PNH is on the case&lt;/p&gt;</content:encoded>
         <link>http://nielsenhayden.com/makinglight/archives/000366.html#37058</link>
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         <pubDate>Tue, 13 Jan 2004 19:46:01 -0500</pubDate>
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         <title>The real marketplace of ideas -- comment #16 from Teresa Nielsen Hayden</title>
         <description>comment from Teresa Nielsen Hayden on 13.Jan.04</description>
         <content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>See the power gauntlets? The superhero cape? The bandolier full of wooden stakes? That's Patrick, out on patrol. Let evildoers beware.</p>]]>
	 &lt;p&gt;Posted January 13, 2004  9:05 PM by Teresa Nielsen Hayden&lt;/p&gt;</content:encoded>
         <link>http://nielsenhayden.com/makinglight/archives/000366.html#37069</link>
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         <pubDate>Tue, 13 Jan 2004 21:05:32 -0500</pubDate>
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         <title>The real marketplace of ideas -- comment #17 from Xopher</title>
         <description>comment from Xopher on 13.Jan.04</description>
         <content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Or, "Spammer, a word of advice: you're an <i>idiot.</i>"</p>

<p>Patrick the Spampire Slayer?</p>]]>
	 &lt;p&gt;Posted January 13, 2004 10:14 PM by Xopher&lt;/p&gt;</content:encoded>
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         <pubDate>Tue, 13 Jan 2004 22:14:21 -0500</pubDate>
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