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      <title>Making Light :: Some last speculations :: comments</title>
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      <description>Language, fraud, folly, truth, history, and knitting. Et cetera.</description>
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      <lastBuildDate>Thu, 28 Aug 2003 20:08:14 -0500</lastBuildDate>
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      <title>Some last speculations</title>
      <description>I've been looking at Fox's original filing in the Fox/Franken lawsuit, and thinking about Fox's timing and intentions. (Background: see...</description>
      <content:encoded>I've been looking at Fox's original filing in the Fox/Franken lawsuit, and thinking about Fox's timing and intentions. (Background: see...</content:encoded>
      <link>http://nielsenhayden.com/makinglight/archives/003405.html</link>
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         <title>Some last speculations -- comment #1 from Tina</title>
         <description>comment from Tina on 28.Aug.03</description>
         <content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Wait. Fox practices journalism?</p>

<p>Oh, no, wait. I get it. By 'brand of journalism', what you mean is 'generic, black-and-white label, imitation journalism'.</p>]]>
	 &lt;p&gt;Posted August 28, 2003  8:08 PM by Tina&lt;/p&gt;</content:encoded>
         <link>http://nielsenhayden.com/makinglight/archives/003405.html#27190</link>
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         <pubDate>Thu, 28 Aug 2003 20:08:14 -0500</pubDate>
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         <title>Some last speculations -- comment #2 from Jeremy Leader</title>
         <description>comment from Jeremy Leader on 28.Aug.03</description>
         <content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Part of me thinks that removing O'Reilly's photo from the cover was one of the key objectives.  Or rather, that was O'Reilly's key objective; Fox was trying to keep the talent happy, and shredding a critic's book was a bonus.</p>

<p>But you're right, Teresa, the timing suggests they were trying to throw a big monkey wrench into the works when it would do the maximum damage.  If you want changes made, you complain as early as possible; if you just want to screw things up, you wait until it's _almost_ too late.</p>

<p>I'm curious what sort of letters, if any, Fox's lawyers sent to Penguin before bringing suit.  Isn't the normal process (when time permits) to notify the other party of the issue, and demand they make the appropriate changes or face a suit?</p>]]>
	 &lt;p&gt;Posted August 28, 2003  8:15 PM by Jeremy Leader&lt;/p&gt;</content:encoded>
         <link>http://nielsenhayden.com/makinglight/archives/003405.html#27191</link>
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         <pubDate>Thu, 28 Aug 2003 20:15:12 -0500</pubDate>
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         <title>Some last speculations -- comment #3 from Stefan Jones</title>
         <description>comment from Stefan Jones on 28.Aug.03</description>
         <content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Then there's the Evil Franken conspiracy:</p>

<p>Think about it. Things turned out *so well* for Franken that the way things unfolded *couldn't be an accident.*</p>

<p>Fox deliberately constructed a case that it couldn't win, and that would give Franken's book a sales boost.</p>

<p>Because Franken *had something* on them. Something that, if made public, would deal them even worse damage.</p>

<p>Like photos of O'Reilly in bed with an overripe melon and an underaged borzoi.</p>]]>
	 &lt;p&gt;Posted August 28, 2003  9:28 PM by Stefan Jones&lt;/p&gt;</content:encoded>
         <link>http://nielsenhayden.com/makinglight/archives/003405.html#27193</link>
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         <pubDate>Thu, 28 Aug 2003 21:28:24 -0500</pubDate>
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         <title>Some last speculations -- comment #4 from C.E. Petit</title>
         <description>comment from C.E. Petit on 28.Aug.03</description>
         <content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Gee, you don't think that Fox News consulted anyone at HarperCollins about the appropriate timing to cause the most potential inconvenience, do you? Just because St. Rupert owns them both?</p>

<p>Yes, this is in fact an implication of bad faith. Go ahead, Br'er Fox, but don' t'row me in dat dere courtroom! (Sorry, I couldn't make it come out in a German "accent".)</p>]]>
	 &lt;p&gt;Posted August 28, 2003 10:05 PM by C.E. Petit&lt;/p&gt;</content:encoded>
         <link>http://nielsenhayden.com/makinglight/archives/003405.html#27194</link>
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         <pubDate>Thu, 28 Aug 2003 22:05:29 -0500</pubDate>
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         <title>Some last speculations -- comment #5 from the (still fair and balanced) talking dog</title>
         <description>comment from the (still fair and balanced) talking dog on 28.Aug.03</description>
         <content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I guess Fox might have been motivated to salvage some Wee Rapport.  You decide.  </p>

<p>Are you questioning the purity of the motives of a true and loyal American like Rupert Murdoch?  Oh wait...</p>]]>
	 &lt;p&gt;Posted August 28, 2003 10:30 PM by the (still fair and balanced) talking dog&lt;/p&gt;</content:encoded>
         <link>http://nielsenhayden.com/makinglight/archives/003405.html#27195</link>
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         <pubDate>Thu, 28 Aug 2003 22:30:24 -0500</pubDate>
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         <title>Some last speculations -- comment #6 from Yonmei</title>
         <description>comment from Yonmei on 29.Aug.03</description>
         <content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>There's a review of the book and the case in the <a href="http://news.independent.co.uk/world/americas/story.jsp?story=438014" rel="nofollow">Independent</a> this morning, that strongly suggests the motivation was Bill O'Reilly's sensitivity to criticism.<br />
</p>]]>
	 &lt;p&gt;Posted August 29, 2003  5:03 AM by Yonmei&lt;/p&gt;</content:encoded>
         <link>http://nielsenhayden.com/makinglight/archives/003405.html#27198</link>
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         <pubDate>Fri, 29 Aug 2003 05:03:51 -0500</pubDate>
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         <title>Some last speculations -- comment #7 from Yonmei</title>
         <description>comment from Yonmei on 29.Aug.03</description>
         <content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Doing a news.google on "fair and balanced" brings up some very entertaining stuff - including Bill O'Reilly's 16th August column defending Fox News against Al Franken. (The next column, 23 August, is all about the Calfornia "energy crisis". I have no idea how far in advance O'Reilly writes his columns, but I wonder what his reaction will be to having the suit laughed out of court?)<br />
</p>]]>
	 &lt;p&gt;Posted August 29, 2003  5:44 AM by Yonmei&lt;/p&gt;</content:encoded>
         <link>http://nielsenhayden.com/makinglight/archives/003405.html#27200</link>
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         <pubDate>Fri, 29 Aug 2003 05:44:17 -0500</pubDate>
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         <title>Some last speculations -- comment #8 from Peter Harkins</title>
         <description>comment from Peter Harkins on 29.Aug.03</description>
         <content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Any idea where/when we can read the court record? From the couple of quotes in the Independent article linked above, it'll make for great reading.</p>]]>
	 &lt;p&gt;Posted August 29, 2003  7:52 AM by Peter Harkins&lt;/p&gt;</content:encoded>
         <link>http://nielsenhayden.com/makinglight/archives/003405.html#27202</link>
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         <pubDate>Fri, 29 Aug 2003 07:52:20 -0500</pubDate>
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         <title>Some last speculations -- comment #9 from Claude Muncey</title>
         <description>comment from Claude Muncey on 29.Aug.03</description>
         <content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Teresa, you aren't the only one who noticed the timing.  From yesterdays <a href="http://www.salon.com/news/feature/2003/08/27/franken/" rel="nofollow">interview</a> of Franken by Laura McClure in Salon:</p>

<p><i>Q:What was your first reaction upon hearing about the suit? Were you surprised?</i> </p>

<p><i>A:I was surprised because they had first threatened to sue about two weeks after the Book Expo dust-up with what's his name, and then they didn't do anything, and the News Corp. [which owns Fox] owns Harper Collins, so they know how books work. So they waited until they knew we were printing books. That surprised me, because on the one hand that seems like a smart thing to do, because that punishes us and in a way they prevail, but it hurts their case, because that's just sitting on your hands. Especially if you're trying to get a preliminary injunction, you can't do that.</i></p>]]>
	 &lt;p&gt;Posted August 29, 2003  8:23 AM by Claude Muncey&lt;/p&gt;</content:encoded>
         <link>http://nielsenhayden.com/makinglight/archives/003405.html#27203</link>
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         <pubDate>Fri, 29 Aug 2003 08:23:58 -0500</pubDate>
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         <title>Some last speculations -- comment #10 from Teresa Nielsen Hayden</title>
         <description>comment from Teresa Nielsen Hayden on 29.Aug.03</description>
         <content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Peter, the document must be on line somewhere, but I have it in hardcopy.</p>

<p>Claude: I'd wondered whether the presses were running yet when Fox filed its lawsuit. Going by the judge's remarks to Fox about how long they'd taken to file their suit after finding out about Franken's book, I'd say he spotted the implications and knew what they were up to.</p>

<p>From this, we may judge that Bill O'Reilly and the Fox News Network aren't nearly as deft as Karl Rove is at killing an undesirable book just as it's being published.</p>]]>
	 &lt;p&gt;Posted August 29, 2003  9:40 AM by Teresa Nielsen Hayden&lt;/p&gt;</content:encoded>
         <link>http://nielsenhayden.com/makinglight/archives/003405.html#27209</link>
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         <pubDate>Fri, 29 Aug 2003 09:40:01 -0500</pubDate>
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         <title>Some last speculations -- comment #11 from Kellie</title>
         <description>comment from Kellie on 29.Aug.03</description>
         <content:encoded><![CDATA[<p><a href="http://news.corporate.findlaw.com/hdocs/docs/ip/foxpenguin80703cmp.pdf" rel="nofollow">Here's</a> the online text of the complaint Fox filed.  I haven't gone looking for any court transcripts yet.  Paragraph 77 is the one where Fox decides to go off on Franken.  Although you can also find some amusing and thinly vieled potshots in paragraph 11 where they describe Franken's career.  Paragraph 39 provides evidence that the impetus for the complaint is more than just O'Reilly's ruffled feathers.</p>

<p>Jeremy, the complaint also discusses a couple letters Fox sent to Penguin and their (lack of) response. (paragraph 41)</p>]]>
	 &lt;p&gt;Posted August 29, 2003 10:28 AM by Kellie&lt;/p&gt;</content:encoded>
         <link>http://nielsenhayden.com/makinglight/archives/003405.html#27210</link>
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         <pubDate>Fri, 29 Aug 2003 10:28:29 -0500</pubDate>
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         <title>Some last speculations -- comment #12 from Robert L</title>
         <description>comment from Robert L on 29.Aug.03</description>
         <content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Just saw copies of the book at Barnes and Noble last night...it was a good feeling.</p>]]>
	 &lt;p&gt;Posted August 29, 2003  1:15 PM by Robert L&lt;/p&gt;</content:encoded>
         <link>http://nielsenhayden.com/makinglight/archives/003405.html#27224</link>
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         <pubDate>Fri, 29 Aug 2003 13:15:51 -0500</pubDate>
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         <title>Some last speculations -- comment #13 from John Farrell</title>
         <description>comment from John Farrell on 29.Aug.03</description>
         <content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Yonmei,<br />
Yeah, according to the Washington Post (<a href="http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/articles/A56418-2003Aug27.html" rel="nofollow">here</a>), Blowhard Bill O'Reilly threw hissy fits and insisted they go ahead....<br />
</p>]]>
	 &lt;p&gt;Posted August 29, 2003  1:19 PM by John Farrell&lt;/p&gt;</content:encoded>
         <link>http://nielsenhayden.com/makinglight/archives/003405.html#27225</link>
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         <pubDate>Fri, 29 Aug 2003 13:19:23 -0500</pubDate>
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         <title>Some last speculations -- comment #14 from Jon Hansen</title>
         <description>comment from Jon Hansen on 29.Aug.03</description>
         <content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I've now got my copy!  Huzzah!  Sadly, my back was turned after I brought it home and now my wife is reading it.  Sniff.</p>

<p>She kept giggling last night while she was reading it.  Her report so far: "It's funny.  And depressing, because they've been getting away with all this crap."</p>]]>
	 &lt;p&gt;Posted August 29, 2003  2:56 PM by Jon Hansen&lt;/p&gt;</content:encoded>
         <link>http://nielsenhayden.com/makinglight/archives/003405.html#27230</link>
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         <pubDate>Fri, 29 Aug 2003 14:56:29 -0500</pubDate>
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         <title>Some last speculations -- comment #15 from Fair and Balanced Beerzie</title>
         <description>comment from Fair and Balanced Beerzie on 29.Aug.03</description>
         <content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>A botched job by our friends at Fox. They generated a ton of publicity for Franken. Now if we could get Bush to do something similar...</p>]]>
	 &lt;p&gt;Posted August 29, 2003  3:32 PM by Fair and Balanced Beerzie&lt;/p&gt;</content:encoded>
         <link>http://nielsenhayden.com/makinglight/archives/003405.html#27233</link>
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         <pubDate>Fri, 29 Aug 2003 15:32:23 -0500</pubDate>
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         <title>Some last speculations -- comment #16 from Tom Whitmore</title>
         <description>comment from Tom Whitmore on  1.Sep.03</description>
         <content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>(Chicken) Bookbookbookbookbook!<br />
(Frog) Readit.</p>

<p>(Should I put a spoiler warning on that?)</p>

<p>The book is a very quick read, unfortunately -- mostly because what he documents is so egregious. And Franken really isn't afraid to show himself in a bad light, which seems quite different from his detractors. </p>

<p>I'm waiting to see how much stock in the publisher of this book Fox News owns....</p>

<p>Cheers,<br />
Tom, way too cynical this morning</p>]]>
	 &lt;p&gt;Posted September  1, 2003  1:46 PM by Tom Whitmore&lt;/p&gt;</content:encoded>
         <link>http://nielsenhayden.com/makinglight/archives/003405.html#27292</link>
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         <pubDate>Mon, 01 Sep 2003 13:46:31 -0500</pubDate>
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         <title>Some last speculations -- comment #17 from Debbie Notkin</title>
         <description>comment from Debbie Notkin on  2.Sep.03</description>
         <content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>"If you think about that a moment, I92m sure you92ll notice that very little of it is necessary to defend Fox92s 93fair and balanced94 pseudo-trademark." </p>

<p>Sadly, speaking from my current post as a high-level "publishing paralegal," this is how these lawsuits are written. This is how law, including publishing law, is practiced in America in the 2000s and, IMHO, nothing can be inferred from it except that Fox has lawyers.</p>

<p>Ask for everything. Demand everything. Cast your net as widely as possible. Don't narrow your argument to your actual cause of concern; you might miss something. Don't, for heaven's sake, try to figure out where the common meeting ground might be. Settlements are about money, not solutions. </p>

<p>(I do feel the need to say that I work with a magnificent and extraordinarily experienced publishing lawyer who is Not Like The Above at all--but nonetheless that's the prevailing culture.)<br />
</p>]]>
	 &lt;p&gt;Posted September  2, 2003  2:56 PM by Debbie Notkin&lt;/p&gt;</content:encoded>
         <link>http://nielsenhayden.com/makinglight/archives/003405.html#27336</link>
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         <pubDate>Tue, 02 Sep 2003 14:56:02 -0500</pubDate>
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         <title>Some last speculations -- comment #18 from Adam Lipkin</title>
         <description>comment from Adam Lipkin on  3.Sep.03</description>
         <content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>From the interview quote above:</p>

<p>"...after the Book Expo dust-up with what's his name,..."</p>

<p>Subtlely vicious comedy, thy name is Franken.</p>

<p>When I read that Franken's chapter on O'Reilly is entitled "Lying, Splotchy Bully", I laughed uncontrollably for about ten minutes. Unsubtlely vicious comedy, thy name is Franken.</p>

<p>I'm going to have to get this book.</p>]]>
	 &lt;p&gt;Posted September  3, 2003 11:32 AM by Adam Lipkin&lt;/p&gt;</content:encoded>
         <link>http://nielsenhayden.com/makinglight/archives/003405.html#27350</link>
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         <pubDate>Wed, 03 Sep 2003 11:32:15 -0500</pubDate>
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         <title>Some last speculations -- comment #19 from Patrick Nielsen Hayden</title>
         <description>comment from Patrick Nielsen Hayden on 19.Oct.03</description>
         <content:encoded><![CDATA[<p><i>" I'm waiting to see how much stock in the publisher of this book Fox News owns....</i></p>

<p>Cheers,<br />
Tom, way too cynical this morning"</p>

<p>Yes, you were way too cynical that morning.  Franken's book was published by Dutton, an imprint of Viking Penguin, part of the Pearson group, which is certainly not even partly owned by Rupert Murdoch.</p>]]>
	 &lt;p&gt;Posted October 19, 2003  2:57 PM by Patrick Nielsen Hayden&lt;/p&gt;</content:encoded>
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         <pubDate>Sun, 19 Oct 2003 14:57:26 -0500</pubDate>
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