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      <title>Making Light :: Phluzein :: comments</title>
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      <title>Phluzein</title>
      <description>Claude Muncey has very kindly referred me to Anders Bell's Phluzein, a weblog devoted to archaeology. If you're me, everything...</description>
      <content:encoded>Claude Muncey has very kindly referred me to Anders Bell's Phluzein, a weblog devoted to archaeology. If you're me, everything...</content:encoded>
      <link>http://nielsenhayden.com/makinglight/archives/003431.html</link>
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         <title>Phluzein -- comment #1 from Robert L</title>
         <description>comment from Robert L on 10.Sep.03</description>
         <content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I like your imaginary scenario in Britain, but I wonder how imaginary it is. Here in the East Village, back 10 or 20 years ago when there were many abandoned buildings, you saw many fine old bits and pieces of architecture that were removed illegally  from buildings, to be incorporated in new ones. Nothing of astounding historic importance, but a lot of cool stuff. Does this sort of thing go on in obscure locations in England? Who knows?<br />
  Of course, if England were treated the way Mexico has been, there would be Uzi-toting robbers attacking Westminster Abbey with chainsaws...</p>]]>
	 &lt;p&gt;Posted September 10, 2003  1:48 AM by Robert L&lt;/p&gt;</content:encoded>
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         <pubDate>Wed, 10 Sep 2003 01:48:22 -0500</pubDate>
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         <title>Phluzein -- comment #2 from Mary Kay</title>
         <description>comment from Mary Kay on 10.Sep.03</description>
         <content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>The Victoria and Albert Museum in London has an enormous double hall filled with amazing copies of famous art and architecture.  Copies used to be quite respectable to have about the place; we should reinvigorate that.</p>

<p>MKK</p>]]>
	 &lt;p&gt;Posted September 10, 2003  2:56 AM by Mary Kay&lt;/p&gt;</content:encoded>
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         <pubDate>Wed, 10 Sep 2003 02:56:38 -0500</pubDate>
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         <title>Phluzein -- comment #3 from chris</title>
         <description>comment from chris on 10.Sep.03</description>
         <content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Robert - Sadly, you're right. It's not just a scenario. So far church looting is on a fairly small scale (most robbers are still more interested in the lead off the roofs), but fewer and fewer churches are left unlocked.</p>

<p>A lot of the stuff you see around will come from stately homes which were pulled down in the middle of the 20th century when the families that owned them were couldn't afford them and there was no market for that kind of property. Literally hundreds of houses were demolished over about 50 years and the contents, including architectural features, disposed of on the open market.</p>

<p>It's hard to find too much sympathy for the incompetent old aristocrats who inherited fortunes they'd never done anything to earn and then couln't even manage them, but it's a shame about the houses, even so.</p>]]>
	 &lt;p&gt;Posted September 10, 2003  3:29 AM by chris&lt;/p&gt;</content:encoded>
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         <pubDate>Wed, 10 Sep 2003 03:29:27 -0500</pubDate>
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         <title>Phluzein -- comment #4 from Jon Hansen</title>
         <description>comment from Jon Hansen on 10.Sep.03</description>
         <content:encoded><![CDATA[<p><i>I still occasionally get nasty little notes from freepers in the comment threads of my old posts about the looting of Baghdad92s museums</i></p>

<p>I saw this in my <a href="http://www.ajc.com/monday/content/epaper/editions/monday/metro_f3c50201f08720ce0089.html" rel="nofollow">local paper</a> the other day, and your remark reminded of it:</p>

<blockquote>Bill Simon, the editor of politicalvine.com, the Republican Web site, has shut down his anonymous discussion board. Too much internecine name calling. "I forgot one little thing. Republicans, when given the option of anonymous debate, can only resort to childish games and posts that do nothing but annoy grown-ups," he wrote.
</blockquote>
Not that freepers are necessarily Republicans or all Republicans are freepers, but there's a bit of an overlap there, I'd say.
]]>
	 &lt;p&gt;Posted September 10, 2003  8:46 AM by Jon Hansen&lt;/p&gt;</content:encoded>
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         <pubDate>Wed, 10 Sep 2003 08:46:09 -0500</pubDate>
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         <title>Phluzein -- comment #5 from Richard Brandt</title>
         <description>comment from Richard Brandt on 10.Sep.03</description>
         <content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Perhaps the freepers could simply be directed to this item from today's news:</p>

<p>WASHINGTON (AP) - Investigators have recovered more than 3,000 antiquities taken from Iraq's collection but still don't know exactly what else might have been pillaged during the war, the Pentagon said Wednesday.<br />
(http://apnews1.iwon.com/article/20030910/D7TFMQ900.html)</p>

<p>...and asked how that could possibly be true if only a dozen or so items were missing in the first place.</p>]]>
	 &lt;p&gt;Posted September 10, 2003  2:56 PM by Richard Brandt&lt;/p&gt;</content:encoded>
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         <pubDate>Wed, 10 Sep 2003 14:56:13 -0500</pubDate>
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         <title>Phluzein -- comment #6 from Steven desJardins</title>
         <description>comment from Steven desJardins on 10.Sep.03</description>
         <content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Another analogy would be to scrap metal dealers, who set up shop in poor areas and pay a few dollars for things like copper pipe and wire.  This produces an incentive for drug addicts and the unscrupulous poor to rip up empty buildings and gut them of any metal they can find.  Once this happens, of course, those empty buildings will remain empty, since it would often cost more to make the building inhabitable again than to just knock it down and build a new one.</p>

<p>There aren't any (adequately enforceable) laws against giving money to badly dressed people with poor hygiene in exchange for a load of copper piping, even though there's no plausible source for the copper other than theft. But it's still evil, and a major reason why poor areas spiral down into greater poverty and remain stuck there.</p>]]>
	 &lt;p&gt;Posted September 10, 2003  3:46 PM by Steven desJardins&lt;/p&gt;</content:encoded>
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         <pubDate>Wed, 10 Sep 2003 15:46:35 -0500</pubDate>
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         <title>Phluzein -- comment #7 from marty</title>
         <description>comment from marty on 10.Sep.03</description>
         <content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I have a beautiful jade mask from Mexico. About 2 inches across. Obviously new, but as my mother said "someone made it". I think good reproductions should be made available to everyone. British shops sell gargoyle magnets, etc. No pretense of ancient. </p>

<p>Reproductions of MidEast stuff would be a great industry. </p>]]>
	 &lt;p&gt;Posted September 10, 2003  4:11 PM by marty&lt;/p&gt;</content:encoded>
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         <pubDate>Wed, 10 Sep 2003 16:11:18 -0500</pubDate>
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         <title>Phluzein -- comment #8 from Eloise Mason</title>
         <description>comment from Eloise Mason on 11.Sep.03</description>
         <content:encoded><![CDATA[<p><i>Reproductions of MidEast stuff would be a great industry.</i></p>

<p>And you could even corner the upmarket end of the market by going, 'Made by hand in the traditional ways by actual Iraqis!' and whatnot. Of course, some easy way to tell the repros from the REAL THING would be essential (i.e. for pottery, something stuck in the middle of the object before firing that will show up quite obviously on an x-ray - a die-cut metal shape, something like that). Like the Dr. Who episode where he wrote on the canvasses in permanent marker before DaVinci painted fifteen extra Mona Lisas. :-></p>]]>
	 &lt;p&gt;Posted September 11, 2003 10:11 AM by Eloise Mason&lt;/p&gt;</content:encoded>
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         <pubDate>Thu, 11 Sep 2003 10:11:30 -0500</pubDate>
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         <title>Phluzein -- comment #9 from Tina</title>
         <description>comment from Tina on 11.Sep.03</description>
         <content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I'm still trying to figure out what, in particular, people believe they are accomplishing when they post things like "You're so gay." </p>

<p>I mean, first, the implication there is that calling someone gay is an insult. Okay, fair enough; some people would think so. But only some people. Wouldn't you want to reserve the insult for someone who was actually likely to be offended by it?</p>

<p>And second...</p>

<p>Wait. Why am I trying to find logic here? Next thing you know, I'll start trying to find intelligent life in the Oval Office.</p>]]>
	 &lt;p&gt;Posted September 11, 2003  1:19 PM by Tina&lt;/p&gt;</content:encoded>
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         <pubDate>Thu, 11 Sep 2003 13:19:27 -0500</pubDate>
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         <title>Phluzein -- comment #10 from Terry</title>
         <description>comment from Terry on 11.Sep.03</description>
         <content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Isn't Phluzein a prostitute cleaning product?</p>]]>
	 &lt;p&gt;Posted September 11, 2003  1:23 PM by Terry&lt;/p&gt;</content:encoded>
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         <pubDate>Thu, 11 Sep 2003 13:23:34 -0500</pubDate>
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         <title>Phluzein -- comment #11 from Tom Whitmore</title>
         <description>comment from Tom Whitmore on 11.Sep.03</description>
         <content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Eloise -- if the repros were on canvas, that would be obvious enough.</p>

<p>The original Mona Lisa is on a wood panel (pine, IIRC).</p>

<p>(And if da Vinci painted them himself, aren't they originals too? My grandmother dealt in lithos, engravings etc; definitely considered original art these days, and often commanding Big Bucks [not that my little Durer from her is worth lots on the open market, but I am damn proud to own it]). </p>

<p>Snarkily,<br />
Tom</p>]]>
	 &lt;p&gt;Posted September 11, 2003  1:46 PM by Tom Whitmore&lt;/p&gt;</content:encoded>
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         <pubDate>Thu, 11 Sep 2003 13:46:40 -0500</pubDate>
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         <title>Phluzein -- comment #12 from Janice Morningstar</title>
         <description>comment from Janice Morningstar on 11.Sep.03</description>
         <content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Consider that some years hence the whole issue of reproductions may become largely moot, if development of nanotechnology makes it possible to duplicate original artifacts all the way down to the molecular level.  Then it might be possible (though maybe not cost-effective) for every museum, or avid collector, to actually possess an "original" artifact.  Then, museums and other owners will have to decide whether or not to allow their artifacts to be "authentically" replicated.  Maybe owners will start filing patents, or some other rights, on the molecular arrangements of the artifacts they own.</p>]]>
	 &lt;p&gt;Posted September 11, 2003  5:59 PM by Janice Morningstar&lt;/p&gt;</content:encoded>
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         <pubDate>Thu, 11 Sep 2003 17:59:10 -0500</pubDate>
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         <title>Phluzein -- comment #13 from stephanie</title>
         <description>comment from stephanie on 12.Sep.03</description>
         <content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>At my university (Cambridge, U.K.) we have a research group trying to put an end to antiquities theft.  Perhaps you or your readers might like to have a look at the website [http://www.mcdonald.cam.ac.uk/IARC/home.htm] where news and legal information are posted, as well as other resources.</p>]]>
	 &lt;p&gt;Posted September 12, 2003 11:06 AM by stephanie&lt;/p&gt;</content:encoded>
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         <pubDate>Fri, 12 Sep 2003 11:06:04 -0500</pubDate>
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         <title>Phluzein -- comment #14 from Eloise Mason</title>
         <description>comment from Eloise Mason on 12.Sep.03</description>
         <content:encoded><![CDATA[<p><i>Eloise -- if the repros were on canvas, that would be obvious enough.</i></p>

<p>The original Mona Lisa is on a wood panel (pine, IIRC).</p>

<p>Argh! I did know that. And the episode got it right, I think. At least, they meant to. :-></p>

<p><i>(And if da Vinci painted them himself, aren't they originals too? ...).</i></p>

<p>Well, obviously so. However, given the time-travelling nature of the episode, and how the bad guy planned to make craploads of money selling 'the real Mona Lisa' to everyone after stealing the original, and also the fact that Everyone Knows Nowadays that there's only one Mona Lisa, the good Doctor decided that marking all but one of them  'obvious fakes under proper analysis' was the best solution.</p>]]>
	 &lt;p&gt;Posted September 12, 2003  2:19 PM by Eloise Mason&lt;/p&gt;</content:encoded>
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         <pubDate>Fri, 12 Sep 2003 14:19:38 -0500</pubDate>
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         <title>Phluzein -- comment #15 from Alan Bostick</title>
         <description>comment from Alan Bostick on 12.Sep.03</description>
         <content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Tina: <i>I'm still trying to figure out what, in particular, people believe they are accomplishing when they post things like "You're so gay." </i></p>

<p><i>I mean, first, the implication there is that calling someone gay is an insult. Okay, fair enough; some people would think so. But only some people. Wouldn't you want to reserve the insult for someone who was actually likely to be offended by it?</i></p>

<p>For good or ill, describing someone or something as "gay" meaning pathetic, lame, or otherwise despicable, seems to be part of contemporary American youth slang, semidetached from it's gay-as-in-GLBT sense.  It's a bit the use of "gypped" to mean "cheated in a commercial transaction" by people who aren't aware that it is a slur against Rom.  <br />
</p>]]>
	 &lt;p&gt;Posted September 12, 2003  9:14 PM by Alan Bostick&lt;/p&gt;</content:encoded>
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         <pubDate>Fri, 12 Sep 2003 21:14:16 -0500</pubDate>
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         <title>Phluzein -- comment #16 from Xopher</title>
         <description>comment from Xopher on 14.Sep.03</description>
         <content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Alan, I have encountered that usage.  Other examples include 'jew down', meaning 'haggle' (though that one actually comes from 'jaw' meaning 'talk excessively') and worse than either, 'nigger' to mean 'lazy, useless person'.</p>

<p>They're common.  We don't have to tolerate them.</p>

<p>I have successfully argued some of the more thoughtful youth of my equaintance out of using the term.  One of them actually said that he'd never thought about how it might make gay people feel.  </p>

<p>As a technique, I suggest the use of the speaker's ethnicity, or hair color, or grade in school (sophomores have already lost this battle), or any adjective pertaining to them that you can come up with.  "He made a complete fool of himself in front of that girl...he was trying to be real cool, and he wound up being totally <i>trumpet player</i>."  Or whatever.  They'll get the point.</p>]]>
	 &lt;p&gt;Posted September 14, 2003 12:46 AM by Xopher&lt;/p&gt;</content:encoded>
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         <pubDate>Sun, 14 Sep 2003 00:46:17 -0500</pubDate>
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         <title>Phluzein -- comment #17 from Xopher</title>
         <description>comment from Xopher on 14.Sep.03</description>
         <content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Um, with insulting strangers on the net, it's just best to assume that anyone who uses the term is a total jerk, and will remain one however you respond.  Treat it as part and parcel of their general obnoxiousness.  </p>]]>
	 &lt;p&gt;Posted September 14, 2003 12:49 AM by Xopher&lt;/p&gt;</content:encoded>
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         <pubDate>Sun, 14 Sep 2003 00:49:27 -0500</pubDate>
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         <title>Phluzein -- comment #18 from Anne</title>
         <description>comment from Anne on 14.Sep.03</description>
         <content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Xopher, speaking as an ex-clarinet player, that's a more accurate insult than you know! Although trombone players are usually weirder.</p>

<p>(Today's Band Geek Stereotypes brought to you by the letter "B" and the accidental "flat.")</p>]]>
	 &lt;p&gt;Posted September 14, 2003  2:58 PM by Anne&lt;/p&gt;</content:encoded>
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         <pubDate>Sun, 14 Sep 2003 14:58:37 -0500</pubDate>
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         <title>Phluzein -- comment #19 from Alan Bostick</title>
         <description>comment from Alan Bostick on 15.Sep.03</description>
         <content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Xopher:  I wasn't <i>defending</i> the practice, mind you; I was trying to make more understandable its use in the flames Teresa receives.  (Without this knowledge, an email stating "You're so gay!" is bizarre and incomprehensible.  Knowing it, though, the email collapses into familiar territory.)</p>]]>
	 &lt;p&gt;Posted September 15, 2003 12:04 PM by Alan Bostick&lt;/p&gt;</content:encoded>
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         <pubDate>Mon, 15 Sep 2003 12:04:32 -0500</pubDate>
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         <title>Phluzein -- comment #20 from Xopher</title>
         <description>comment from Xopher on 16.Sep.03</description>
         <content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Alan, I didn't actually think you were defending it, but it's good to have that reassurance.  My comment was more of a tirade; sorry about the confusion.</p>

<p>Anne, I know.  The two elegant tuxedoed gentlemen drinking white wine: "What kind of rosin do you use?"  Two guys swilling beer: "What kind of valve oil do you use?"  Two bums in the gutter: "What kind of sticks do you use?"</p>

<p>I, in case it's not evident, am a drummer.  Though I rarely use sticks.</p>]]>
	 &lt;p&gt;Posted September 16, 2003 12:23 PM by Xopher&lt;/p&gt;</content:encoded>
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         <pubDate>Tue, 16 Sep 2003 12:23:01 -0500</pubDate>
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