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      <title>Making Light :: Old text, future interference :: comments</title>
      <link>https://nielsenhayden.com/makinglight/archives/004260.html#comments </link>
      <description>Language, fraud, folly, truth, history, and knitting. Et cetera.</description>
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      <title>Old text, future interference</title>
      <description>The cheery news of the moment, if you're a math historian or just have a broad streak of geek in...</description>
      <content:encoded>The cheery news of the moment, if you're a math historian or just have a broad streak of geek in...</content:encoded>
      <link>https://nielsenhayden.com/makinglight/archives/004260.html</link>
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         <title>Old text, future interference -- comment #1 from Jon H</title>
         <description>comment from Jon H on 14.Dec.03</description>
         <content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>"Uh-huh. Very likely. Just at that moment..."</p>

<p>That struck me as rather odd as well.</p>

<p>Dr. Netz is lucky the puzzle wasn't an intricately carved and gilded box.</p>]]>
	 &lt;p&gt;Posted December 14, 2003 12:38 AM by Jon H&lt;/p&gt;</content:encoded>
         <link>https://nielsenhayden.com/makinglight/archives/004260.html#34340</link>
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         <pubDate>Sun, 14 Dec 2003 00:38:38 -0500</pubDate>
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         <title>Old text, future interference -- comment #2 from Tom Whitmore</title>
         <description>comment from Tom Whitmore on 14.Dec.03</description>
         <content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Perhaps the inverse of the Person from Porlock who prevented the rest of KUBLAI KHAN from being written, because there were Things Man Was Not Meant to Know encoded there?</p>]]>
	 &lt;p&gt;Posted December 14, 2003  2:50 AM by Tom Whitmore&lt;/p&gt;</content:encoded>
         <link>https://nielsenhayden.com/makinglight/archives/004260.html#34344</link>
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         <pubDate>Sun, 14 Dec 2003 02:50:06 -0500</pubDate>
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         <title>Old text, future interference -- comment #3 from Xopher</title>
         <description>comment from Xopher on 14.Dec.03</description>
         <content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>And is it a coincidence that the Nielsen Haydens were watching <i>Buffy</i> when they got this news?  I think not.  Joss Whedon, of course, is also clearly a time traveller.</p>

<p>It will, of course, be some time before this connection leads to the famous Epiphany of Teresa of Brooklyn, wherein she woke (or will wake) in the middle of the night with a complete formulation of what will be (or has come to be) known as <b><i>[censored by order of the Department of Temporal Security]</i></b>.</p>]]>
	 &lt;p&gt;Posted December 14, 2003  9:38 AM by Xopher&lt;/p&gt;</content:encoded>
         <link>https://nielsenhayden.com/makinglight/archives/004260.html#34350</link>
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         <pubDate>Sun, 14 Dec 2003 09:38:43 -0500</pubDate>
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         <title>Old text, future interference -- comment #4 from Teresa Nielsen Hayden</title>
         <description>comment from Teresa Nielsen Hayden on 14.Dec.03</description>
         <content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>The text of a postcard message, quoted in the first and longer version of "Over Rough Terrain" (Izzard #9, February 1987):<blockquote><i>Do you ever find yourself thinking that wherever you go, people are surreptitiously watching you? And taking notes? And they're all grad students? And they're all time travellers? And you wonder: What am I going to do? Did I do it already? ... I always try to act like I haven't noticed them.</i></blockquote></p>]]>
	 &lt;p&gt;Posted December 14, 2003 11:20 AM by Teresa Nielsen Hayden&lt;/p&gt;</content:encoded>
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         <pubDate>Sun, 14 Dec 2003 11:20:49 -0500</pubDate>
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         <title>Old text, future interference -- comment #5 from Robert L</title>
         <description>comment from Robert L on 14.Dec.03</description>
         <content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>They're just watching to make sure that the agents from the grim alternate future where the U.S. has turned into an Orwellian police state don't---Hey, wait a minute---</p>]]>
	 &lt;p&gt;Posted December 14, 2003 11:27 AM by Robert L&lt;/p&gt;</content:encoded>
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         <pubDate>Sun, 14 Dec 2003 11:27:45 -0500</pubDate>
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         <title>Old text, future interference -- comment #6 from Jonathan Vos Post</title>
         <description>comment from Jonathan Vos Post on 14.Dec.03</description>
         <content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>It's worth looking at the nice color diagrams, references, and the like at:</p>

<p>http://mathworld.wolfram.com/Stomachion.html<br />
"...In November 2003, Bill Cutler found there to be 536 possible distinct arrangements of the pieces into a square, illustrated above, where solutions that are equivalent by rotation and reflection are considered identical ..."</p>

<p>My Math Advisor when I earned my 1st two B.S. degrees at Caltech was Herbert J. Ryser. He was considered by some "the King of Combinatorics."<br />
[see footnote]</p>

<p>The official bio does NOT mention the effect his work had on Cryptography.  That would put us into Neal Stephenson "Cryptonomicon" territory.</p>

<p>But consider this.  If Archimedes was doing Combinatorics, and we know there were metal analog computers for Astronomy in the greater Greek worlds (Antikythera Mechanism), then -- could it be that Archimedes was actually like Babbage, invented the digital computer, it was built two millennia ago, and the ancient world was secretly computerized?  I think the Dark Ages were caused by link rot.  Or the Church cracking down on Gothic Blogs...</p>

<p>Footnote: [According to his bio on Ohio State's web domain: He was born on July 28, 1923 in Milwaukee, Wisconsin to Fred G. and Edna (Huels) Ryser. He attended the University of Wisconsin, receiving a BA. in 1945, an MA. in 1947, and a Ph.D. in 1948. His doctoral thesis "Rational Vector Spaces" was written under the direction of C. J. Everett and Cyrus C. MacDuffee. He then spent the year 1948-1949 at the Institute for Advanced Study in Princeton.]</p>

<p>[In 1949 he was appointed assistant professor at Ohio State. He was promoted to associate professor in 1952 and to professor in 1955. His presence at Ohio State together with Marshall Hall established a tradition of excellence in combinatorics in the department. While at Ohio State, Ryser directed four Ph.D. students.]</p>

<p>[In 1962 Ryser accepted an appointment at Syracuse University, then in 1967 he moved to California Institute of Technology, where he spent the rest of his life.]</p>

<p>[Ryser is widely regarded as one of the major figures in combinatorics in the 20th century. Already in his final year of graduate studies at Wisconsin, he collaborated with R. H. Bruck to prove the famous Bruck-Ryser theorem, which states that there are no projective planes of order n congruent to 1 or 2 mod 4, if n has an odd power prime factor congruent to 3. To date this is the only general nonexistence theorem for finite projective planes. In 1950 he and S. Chowla extended the nonexistence theorem to symmetric block designs. Later he found a short and elegant proof of this theorem using the Witt cancellation law.]</p>

<p>[Ryser contributed to many different parts of combinatorics, especially to the theory of combinatorial designs, finite set systems, and the permanent and other combinatorial functions. His seminal book "Combinatorial Mathematics" in the MAA Carus Monograph series is a classic which has enticed many young mathematics students into this area. He was a master expositor and a great teacher, winning several teaching awards at Caltech. He directed 12 Ph.D. students.]</p>

<p>[Ryser served as editor of the Journal of Combinatorial Theory, Linear and Multilinear Algebra, and the Journal of Algebra for many years. He also participated in the Visiting Lecturers' Program of the MAA for over 10 years.<br />
He died on July 12, 1985 in Pasadena.]<br />
</p>]]>
	 &lt;p&gt;Posted December 14, 2003 12:06 PM by Jonathan Vos Post&lt;/p&gt;</content:encoded>
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         <title>Old text, future interference -- comment #7 from Jonathan Vos Post</title>
         <description>comment from Jonathan Vos Post on 14.Dec.03</description>
         <content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Oh, and about Time Travel, see:</p>

<p>http://www.magicdragon.com/UltimateSF/thisthat.html#time</p>

<p>[warning: part of huge 400+ Kilobyte page, loads slowly.</p>

<p>Some important early time travel subcategories, and their first published <br />
examples include:</p>

<p>Present to Future: "Anno 7603", by Norwegian playwright Johan Hermann Wessel (1781)</p>

<p>Present to Past: "Missing One's Coach", anonymous, Dublin Literary Magazine, <br />
     1838, sends narrator back a millennium</p>

<p>Future to Present: "An Uncommon Sort of Spectre", Edward Page Mitchell, 1879<br />
     (or should I count the Ghost of Christmas Future in Charles Dickens' <br />
     "A Christmas Carol" (1843)?</p>

<p>Past to Present: "The Hour Glass", Robert Barr, [The Strand magazine, <br />
     December 1898]</p>

<p>Time Machine: 7 years before H. G. Well's "The Time Machine", there was<br />
     "The Clock That Went Backwards", by Edward Page Mitchell, <br />
     [The New York Sun, 18 September 1881]</p>

<p><br />
Bottom line, however, so far a Physics, Math, and Philosphy agrees (excluding SF authors):</p>

<p>It MAY BE possible to "participate in the past" by travlling back in a time machine.</p>

<p>It is INCONSISTENT to think that you can "change the past."  In what philosophers call the "block universe", looking at 4-dimesnional space-time as a whole, NOTHING CHANGES. </p>

<p>There is not one past, before a time traveller arrives, then a second, changed by said traveller (and then a 3rd after the time patrol changes back to status quo).</p>

<p>I've taught a class on Time Travel many times, and lectured on this at cons.  </p>

<p>Or is that what THEY want you to think?  Bwaahaaa ha ha haaaa... <br />
</p>]]>
	 &lt;p&gt;Posted December 14, 2003 12:18 PM by Jonathan Vos Post&lt;/p&gt;</content:encoded>
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         <pubDate>Sun, 14 Dec 2003 12:18:41 -0500</pubDate>
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         <title>Old text, future interference -- comment #8 from oliviacw</title>
         <description>comment from oliviacw on 14.Dec.03</description>
         <content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I took a class last fall (2002) from Reviel Netz on "The Invention of Science."  Essentially, science from the ancient Greeks through maybe 500AD.  Very cool (yet geeky) guy....when we were talking about the conception of the "mad scientist", we were treated to an excerpt from his favorite film....the Rocky Horror Picture Show.</p>]]>
	 &lt;p&gt;Posted December 14, 2003  2:22 PM by oliviacw&lt;/p&gt;</content:encoded>
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         <pubDate>Sun, 14 Dec 2003 14:22:45 -0500</pubDate>
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         <title>Old text, future interference -- comment #9 from Kevin Andrew Murphy</title>
         <description>comment from Kevin Andrew Murphy on 14.Dec.03</description>
         <content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>And you can buy one of the puzzles <a href="http://www.gamepuzzles.com/archsqu.htm" rel="nofollow">at this website, even in time-traveler blue</a>.</p>]]>
	 &lt;p&gt;Posted December 14, 2003  3:04 PM by Kevin Andrew Murphy&lt;/p&gt;</content:encoded>
         <link>https://nielsenhayden.com/makinglight/archives/004260.html#34375</link>
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         <pubDate>Sun, 14 Dec 2003 15:04:35 -0500</pubDate>
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         <title>Old text, future interference -- comment #10 from Mary Kay</title>
         <description>comment from Mary Kay on 14.Dec.03</description>
         <content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Oliviacw:  You seem to be implying that cool and geeky may be mutually exclusive.  Not around our house.</p>

<p>MKK</p>]]>
	 &lt;p&gt;Posted December 14, 2003  3:13 PM by Mary Kay&lt;/p&gt;</content:encoded>
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         <pubDate>Sun, 14 Dec 2003 15:13:55 -0500</pubDate>
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         <title>Old text, future interference -- comment #11 from Lenny Bailes</title>
         <description>comment from Lenny Bailes on 14.Dec.03</description>
         <content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Jonathan VP:</p>

<p>I believe that opinions about the immutability of the past continue to be somewhat mutable.</p>

<p>In our own field, we've got Greg Egan's sleight of hand, where he attacks our notions of sequence and causality, attempting to shore up his pitch for multiple, branching universes with appeals to quantum mechanics.   (Events that we're calling "the past" may not really have collapsed yet.)    </p>

<p>Admittedly, Egan's rationale is kind of a shell game, but I've seen other statements from mathematicians, philosophers and physicists who now question the consistent "one-universe, only" model that Minkowski formulated.  </p>

<p>((Of course, as we all know, the "one Universe only" <a href="http://continuitypages.com/crisis.htm#crisis" rel="nofollow">conceit </a> perpetrated by Marv Wolfman and his Linear Men collapsed on itself, several years ago, when Rip Hunter and Mark Waid <a href="http://continuitypages.com/crisis.htm#kingdom" rel="nofollow"> restored the Multiverse.</a>))</p>]]>
	 &lt;p&gt;Posted December 14, 2003  6:20 PM by Lenny Bailes&lt;/p&gt;</content:encoded>
         <link>https://nielsenhayden.com/makinglight/archives/004260.html#34383</link>
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         <pubDate>Sun, 14 Dec 2003 18:20:15 -0500</pubDate>
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         <title>Old text, future interference -- comment #12 from Xopher</title>
         <description>comment from Xopher on 14.Dec.03</description>
         <content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>It's called the Observer Effect in some of the fictional/gaming lit.  You can't change the past if anyone noticed it.  So, you can't keep Oswald (or whoever, pace the tinhat crowd) from killing Kennedy, but you can swipe a sample of Kennedy's brain tissue from the side of the road.</p>

<p>I remember an episode of <i>Quantum Leap</i> where he was sent back into Oswald.  He didn't keep him from killing Kennedy, and he thought he'd failed, until they told him that "the first time" (I hear you screaming, JvP) he killed Jackie, too.</p>]]>
	 &lt;p&gt;Posted December 14, 2003  8:36 PM by Xopher&lt;/p&gt;</content:encoded>
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         <pubDate>Sun, 14 Dec 2003 20:36:08 -0500</pubDate>
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         <title>Old text, future interference -- comment #13 from CHip</title>
         <description>comment from CHip on 14.Dec.03</description>
         <content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I've long been fond of two classical past-alteration hypotheses:</p>

<p>De Camp: attempting to alter the past creates such a huge stress in space-time that the would-be alterer gets snapped back to his point of origin, rather the worse for wear. ("A Gun for Dinosaur".)</p>

<p>Brunner: if it is possible to alter the past, some time traveler will do something to cancel the invention of time travel. ("The Fullness of Time" (last of three-part fixup <i>Times Without Number</i>).)</p>

<p>This reminds me of the reply to a question I asked many months ago here; looking at why so many would-be authors have (and act on) strange ideas about publishing, -"Is there anything as solitary and undemanding of resources as writing?"- was answered "Theoretical mathematics." I'm in no position to judge -- 30 years ago I gave up in the semester after first-year calculus -- but I'm not surprised that an individual thinker could have answered a mathematical poser long before the question categorized.</p>]]>
	 &lt;p&gt;Posted December 14, 2003  8:56 PM by CHip&lt;/p&gt;</content:encoded>
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         <pubDate>Sun, 14 Dec 2003 20:56:21 -0500</pubDate>
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         <title>Old text, future interference -- comment #14 from Saheli</title>
         <description>comment from Saheli on 14.Dec.03</description>
         <content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Does anyone know of any really good mathematically oriented science fiction? Mathematics is always the thing that reaches forward the first, truly a little too far ahead of its time.  And mathematicians make for such interesting characters, you'd think there'd be more of them out in the speculative canon--but perhaps I'm just ignorant? The image of time travelling spooks trying to fix the big book of proofs is too cool to pass up. </p>]]>
	 &lt;p&gt;Posted December 14, 2003  9:18 PM by Saheli&lt;/p&gt;</content:encoded>
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         <pubDate>Sun, 14 Dec 2003 21:18:15 -0500</pubDate>
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         <title>Old text, future interference -- comment #15 from John M. Ford</title>
         <description>comment from John M. Ford on 15.Dec.03</description>
         <content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Just because I was here first: find Rudy Rucker's anthology MATHENAUTS, which contains nothing else but, by a variety of authors over several decades.</p>

<p>There have been a few novels about crypto lately, which overcomes the somewhat ethereal nature of "pure mathematics" stories by allowing you to have lots of people trying to kill each other over the big secret.</p>

<p>Suddenly it's obvious that Evariste Galois had gotten a crowbar into polyalphabetics, and the Tespies (Temporal Espionage folks) had to nail him for the chronoffence of Premature Inspiration.  Rather like they got Kit Marlowe and Archimedes, but I'm working very close to the edge here.<br />
</p>]]>
	 &lt;p&gt;Posted December 15, 2003 12:35 AM by John M. Ford&lt;/p&gt;</content:encoded>
         <link>https://nielsenhayden.com/makinglight/archives/004260.html#34397</link>
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         <pubDate>Mon, 15 Dec 2003 00:35:56 -0500</pubDate>
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         <title>Old text, future interference -- comment #16 from Bill Humphries</title>
         <description>comment from Bill Humphries on 15.Dec.03</description>
         <content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>The grand tour: http://www.math.ucsd.edu/~fan/stomach/tour/</p>]]>
	 &lt;p&gt;Posted December 15, 2003  1:53 AM by Bill Humphries&lt;/p&gt;</content:encoded>
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         <pubDate>Mon, 15 Dec 2003 01:53:30 -0500</pubDate>
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         <title>Old text, future interference -- comment #17 from oliviacw</title>
         <description>comment from oliviacw on 15.Dec.03</description>
         <content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Being one who aspires to cool yet geeky status myself, I was just clarifying the kind of coolness....geeky, as opposed to jocky, perhaps!</p>]]>
	 &lt;p&gt;Posted December 15, 2003  4:44 AM by oliviacw&lt;/p&gt;</content:encoded>
         <link>https://nielsenhayden.com/makinglight/archives/004260.html#34403</link>
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         <pubDate>Mon, 15 Dec 2003 04:44:54 -0500</pubDate>
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         <title>Old text, future interference -- comment #18 from Teresa Nielsen Hayden</title>
         <description>comment from Teresa Nielsen Hayden on 15.Dec.03</description>
         <content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I'll go for all of it but the Person from Porlock. Authors are <i>really good</i> at making things up.</p>]]>
	 &lt;p&gt;Posted December 15, 2003  8:25 AM by Teresa Nielsen Hayden&lt;/p&gt;</content:encoded>
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         <pubDate>Mon, 15 Dec 2003 08:25:08 -0500</pubDate>
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         <title>Old text, future interference -- comment #19 from Virge</title>
         <description>comment from Virge on 15.Dec.03</description>
         <content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>An assistant professor historic<br />
rediscovered works combinatoric.<br />
He (despite the monks' cleaning)<br />
gave the manuscript meaning<br />
to further his fame meteoric.</p>]]>
	 &lt;p&gt;Posted December 15, 2003  9:03 AM by Virge&lt;/p&gt;</content:encoded>
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         <pubDate>Mon, 15 Dec 2003 09:03:55 -0500</pubDate>
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         <title>Old text, future interference -- comment #20 from Andrew Willett</title>
         <description>comment from Andrew Willett on 15.Dec.03</description>
         <content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Bah! All knowledge of the human <i>word animal,</i> is insignificant, when his fictitious <i>word world</i> is compared to Nature's own Dynamic & Harmonic <a href="http://www.timecube.com" rel="nofollow">Time Cube</a>'sa0Creationa0Principle.</p>]]>
	 &lt;p&gt;Posted December 15, 2003  9:13 AM by Andrew Willett&lt;/p&gt;</content:encoded>
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         <pubDate>Mon, 15 Dec 2003 09:13:16 -0500</pubDate>
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         <title>Old text, future interference -- comment #21 from Kellie</title>
         <description>comment from Kellie on 15.Dec.03</description>
         <content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Dr. Netz's opportune package should be added to the long list of serendipitous discoveries/inspirations quite common to science and math.  Which, in light of this discussion, makes me wonder if scientific progress is nothing more than Future Folks seeding data.  And if that's the case, then I'd like to rail against one of this group and demand to know why they never deemed my projects worthy of such interference.  Or maybe I provided them with entertainment - six months without luck trying to grow bacteria has got to be amusing to someone.  Maybe even me after more time has passed.</p>

<p>*walks away muttering about prejudiced time travellers*</p>]]>
	 &lt;p&gt;Posted December 15, 2003 10:10 AM by Kellie&lt;/p&gt;</content:encoded>
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         <pubDate>Mon, 15 Dec 2003 10:10:33 -0500</pubDate>
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         <title>Old text, future interference -- comment #22 from Anne</title>
         <description>comment from Anne on 15.Dec.03</description>
         <content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Kellie, what if your recalcitrant bacteria were being killed by the time travelers? Maybe in the original timeline you're the discoverer of something that Man Is Not Meant To Know.</p>]]>
	 &lt;p&gt;Posted December 15, 2003 12:24 PM by Anne&lt;/p&gt;</content:encoded>
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         <pubDate>Mon, 15 Dec 2003 12:24:27 -0500</pubDate>
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         <title>Old text, future interference -- comment #23 from John Farrell</title>
         <description>comment from John Farrell on 15.Dec.03</description>
         <content:encoded><![CDATA[<p><i>(Link via Patrick, who put Buffy on Pause to read me the first few paragraphs of the article...</i></p>

<p>Patrick watches...Buffy???</p>

<p>:) </p>]]>
	 &lt;p&gt;Posted December 15, 2003  1:01 PM by John Farrell&lt;/p&gt;</content:encoded>
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         <title>Old text, future interference -- comment #24 from Kellie</title>
         <description>comment from Kellie on 15.Dec.03</description>
         <content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Anne, great.  Before my project was not important enough.  Now it's <i>too</i> important.  *sigh*  But if Man Is Not Meant To Know It, how do the time travelers know it?  Or are we speaking of an Alien Consortuim of Time Travelers?  Like the League of Extraordinary Green Men?</p>]]>
	 &lt;p&gt;Posted December 15, 2003  1:16 PM by Kellie&lt;/p&gt;</content:encoded>
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         <pubDate>Mon, 15 Dec 2003 13:16:14 -0500</pubDate>
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         <title>Old text, future interference -- comment #25 from Anne</title>
         <description>comment from Anne on 15.Dec.03</description>
         <content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Kellie: Uh. Maybe the time cops are the Last Heroic Remnant of the advanced society destroyed by the hive-mind made up of your critters? </p>

<p>Or not. I'm suffering from final-exam brainmelt, so I think I'll just softly and silently go off and do some grading.</p>]]>
	 &lt;p&gt;Posted December 15, 2003  2:13 PM by Anne&lt;/p&gt;</content:encoded>
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         <pubDate>Mon, 15 Dec 2003 14:13:47 -0500</pubDate>
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         <title>Old text, future interference -- comment #26 from Jeremy Leader</title>
         <description>comment from Jeremy Leader on 15.Dec.03</description>
         <content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Kellie, maybe it's just that We Are Not Ready for that knowledge?</p>]]>
	 &lt;p&gt;Posted December 15, 2003  2:20 PM by Jeremy Leader&lt;/p&gt;</content:encoded>
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         <pubDate>Mon, 15 Dec 2003 14:20:03 -0500</pubDate>
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         <title>Old text, future interference -- comment #27 from Kellie</title>
         <description>comment from Kellie on 15.Dec.03</description>
         <content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>[snooty voice] Hmmm.  Two very excellent theories, Anne and Jeremy.  I am mollified.  I shall now allow the Future Beings (be they bacterial or human or alien) to continue on with their good work.  [/ snooty voice]</p>]]>
	 &lt;p&gt;Posted December 15, 2003  3:25 PM by Kellie&lt;/p&gt;</content:encoded>
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         <pubDate>Mon, 15 Dec 2003 15:25:04 -0500</pubDate>
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         <title>Old text, future interference -- comment #28 from Lydia Nickerson</title>
         <description>comment from Lydia Nickerson on 15.Dec.03</description>
         <content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Saheli,</p>

<p>It's not science fiction, but you might look at Tom Stoppard's play, "Arcadia."  Math professors write paens to it.  The play is concerned with chaos theory, fractals, the Second Law of Thermodynamics, and dynamical systems.  </p>

<p>I recently saw it performed here in Minneapolis, and it is a truly stunning work.  It has the feeling of sf, in that it pursues two related story lines, the two being about 100 years apart.  I haven't read it, it may not work as well in print.  On stage, it very nearly lifted my hair right off.</p>

<p>You might also try Stoppard's "Hapgood," which is about quantum mechanics and the observer effect, if I remember correctly.  </p>]]>
	 &lt;p&gt;Posted December 15, 2003  3:54 PM by Lydia Nickerson&lt;/p&gt;</content:encoded>
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         <pubDate>Mon, 15 Dec 2003 15:54:41 -0500</pubDate>
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         <title>Old text, future interference -- comment #29 from Adina</title>
         <description>comment from Adina on 15.Dec.03</description>
         <content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Teresa, when you added that bit of verse by Virge, you forgot to put in a close-italics tag, so most of the rest of the page is now italicized. <br />
</p>]]>
	 &lt;p&gt;Posted December 15, 2003  5:31 PM by Adina&lt;/p&gt;</content:encoded>
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         <pubDate>Mon, 15 Dec 2003 17:31:41 -0500</pubDate>
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         <title>Old text, future interference -- comment #30 from Scott Drone-Silvers</title>
         <description>comment from Scott Drone-Silvers on 15.Dec.03</description>
         <content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Stoppard - now THERE'S a great candidate for a time traveler. Watching his work gives me the distict impression that he has had some incredible "technical advisors" from the last several centuries...</p>]]>
	 &lt;p&gt;Posted December 15, 2003 10:41 PM by Scott Drone-Silvers&lt;/p&gt;</content:encoded>
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         <pubDate>Mon, 15 Dec 2003 22:41:39 -0500</pubDate>
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         <title>Old text, future interference -- comment #31 from Tom Whitmore</title>
         <description>comment from Tom Whitmore on 16.Dec.03</description>
         <content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I couldn't resist sneaking in here to be italicized....</p>

<p>Add to Mr. Ford's great suggestion of MATHENAUTS the two miscellanies edited by Clifton Fadiman, FANTASIA MATHEMATICA and THE MATHEMATICAL MAGPIE. Stories, articles, poetry, fantasies, and just plain fun. They've even been reissued as trade paperbacks within the last few years. Also, of course, FLATLAND and all its followons. And Rudy Rucker (a mathematician himself, like Vernor Vinge) has written some stories that have great math interest.</p>

<p>One of the odder bits of math fiction is a few chapters in SORORITY HOUSE, a work by Frederik Pohl (possibly with Kornbluth, I'm not sure) under the Jordan Park pseudonym. Bear with my spotty memory: it's been at least 10 years since I read it, and my copy's in Seattle, and it's a bloody scarce book at this point. One of the sorority girls picks up a thin little book of every esoteric math with "elementary" in the title and tries to read it. She can't get past the first paragraph at first. But she knows it's elementary, and she knows she's not stupid enough not to understand an elementary book, so she keeps trying; and over several weeks actually gets hooked on serious math and starts seeing how it works. A very nice sequence in an almost unknown book; might be appropriate to see if someone would reprint that bit. The rest of the book, while fun, is nothing special.</p>

<p>Cheers,<br />
Tom</p>]]>
	 &lt;p&gt;Posted December 16, 2003  1:21 AM by Tom Whitmore&lt;/p&gt;</content:encoded>
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         <pubDate>Tue, 16 Dec 2003 01:21:26 -0500</pubDate>
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         <title>Old text, future interference -- comment #32 from FIX THE DAMN ITALICS TAG!</title>
         <description>comment from FIX THE DAMN ITALICS TAG! on 16.Dec.03</description>
         <content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Please, please, <b>please</b> put an &lt;/i&gt; tag after "meteoric" in the addendum.</p>]]>
	 &lt;p&gt;Posted December 16, 2003  1:18 PM by FIX THE DAMN ITALICS TAG!&lt;/p&gt;</content:encoded>
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         <pubDate>Tue, 16 Dec 2003 13:18:53 -0500</pubDate>
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         <title>Old text, future interference -- comment #33 from Jonathan Vos Post</title>
         <description>comment from Jonathan Vos Post on 16.Dec.03</description>
         <content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I'm 500 miles from home, with none of my references at hand.  </p>

<p>But a battered "Science Fiction Encyclopedia" [ed.Peter Nicholls, 1979] is before me, to say more about Mathematics in Science Fiction.  I'm at the El Dorado County Library for a free 30<br />
minutes of internet, in the middle of a skiing vacation at Lake Tahoe. This is one of the West's<br />
primiere resort areas, and I've never stayed here<br />
before.</p>

<p>Back to Math: H.G. Wells' The Platner Story" [1896, 4-D rotation makes 3-D object mirror-reversed]; Robert Heinlein, "And He Built a Crooked House--" [1940, Tesseract house folds into 4-d); Arthur C. Clarke, "Wall of Darkness" [1949, a toplogical weirdness]; L. Sprague de Camp & Fletcher Pratt, THE INCOMPLETE ENCHANTER [1942, mathematical logc equation is key to travel to alternate worlds]; James Blish "FYI" [1953, transfinite arithmetic]; David Duncan, "Occam's Razor" [1957, explains Calculus of Variations]; Robert Heinlein, "Misfit", [1939, math prodigy Libby]; Norman Kagan, various stories; William F. Orr, "Euclid Alone", [1975, in Orbit 16 anth., author a mathematician, too]; several books by Rudy Rucker.</p>

<p>Comments on loopholes in my claim dismissing "altering the past" are interesting.  Truth is, we do not actually KNOW the topology of time.  I stand by what I said, in the "default" consensus world of Physics.  But it takes a 6-hour course to be even halfway convincing.  The one definitive textbok on Time Travel in SF, other literature, math, physics, and toplogy has been republished, as a Ben Bova imprint [Original was American Physics Press].  Referenced on the anchor page in the long page I mnetioned in earlier posting.  Author a SF writer turned Professor.</p>

<p>It is extravagently beautiful here, the snow-covered Sierra Nevadas, which we are in; the snow-laded firs and Ponderosa pines; the huge lake spread out below.</p>

<p>I am as happy as I've been in a long time.</p>

<p>Almost ashamed to admit that I'm addicted to the Web, and this blog, and my email.</p>

<p>Yesterday, at the ski lodge, I ran into Gwen Bell, wife of former DEC President Gordon Bell (now a Micro$oft VP).  Her opening line to me, before we knew names, was "what was your first computer?"</p>

<p>Mine was an IBM 1130 in 1966.  Gwen, FoundinG president of the Computer Mudeum, knew so many of the same pioneers that I do.  She's kicking off a national competition for Best Computer Game built by a High School student.  Winner gets full schlarship at Stanford.  Cool idea!</p>

<p>Okay, back to the ski slopes, at 9,000 to over 10,000 feet abve sea level...</p>

<p>Bye for now...</p>]]>
	 &lt;p&gt;Posted December 16, 2003  5:28 PM by Jonathan Vos Post&lt;/p&gt;</content:encoded>
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         <pubDate>Tue, 16 Dec 2003 17:28:15 -0500</pubDate>
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         <title>Old text, future interference -- comment #34 from Teach Yourself HTML</title>
         <description>comment from Teach Yourself HTML on 16.Dec.03</description>
         <content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>closing italics</p>]]>
	 &lt;p&gt;Posted December 16, 2003  5:38 PM by Teach Yourself HTML&lt;/p&gt;</content:encoded>
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         <pubDate>Tue, 16 Dec 2003 17:38:34 -0500</pubDate>
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         <title>Old text, future interference -- comment #35 from Saheli</title>
         <description>comment from Saheli on 16.Dec.03</description>
         <content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Well, that's a nice starting list: <i>Mathenauts</i>, <i>Arcadia</i>, <i>Fantasia Mathematica </i> and <i>The Mathematical Magpie </i>, Jonathan Vos Post's exhaustive list of classics, and <i>Sorority House</i> by Frederik Pohl. I have to say that sequence does sound intriguing, Tom. I may have to go hunting for that.  I think John is right, and the usual thing is to make the mathematics a MacGuffin. The Tespies killing Galois is a nice touch. Especially if they did it by <i> making him fall in love.</i></p>

<p>Perhaps its time to write some then. . . <br />
Thanks all!</p>]]>
	 &lt;p&gt;Posted December 16, 2003  9:41 PM by Saheli&lt;/p&gt;</content:encoded>
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         <pubDate>Tue, 16 Dec 2003 21:41:55 -0500</pubDate>
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         <title>Old text, future interference -- comment #36 from Stephan Brun</title>
         <description>comment from Stephan Brun on 17.Dec.03</description>
         <content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Obviously, the time travellers got to Teresa too, and are now italicizing the thread in order that it Never Be Read. Errors never happen, as we all know...<br />
<i>(Does this work?)</i><br />
</p>]]>
	 &lt;p&gt;Posted December 17, 2003  4:39 AM by Stephan Brun&lt;/p&gt;</content:encoded>
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         <pubDate>Wed, 17 Dec 2003 04:39:48 -0500</pubDate>
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         <title>Old text, future interference -- comment #37 from Stephan Brun</title>
         <description>comment from Stephan Brun on 17.Dec.03</description>
         <content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I tried to make it &lt;i&gt;Does this work&lt;/i&gt;, and obviously that didn't. Crafty buggers, they saw right through my cunning plan...<br />
</p>]]>
	 &lt;p&gt;Posted December 17, 2003  4:52 AM by Stephan Brun&lt;/p&gt;</content:encoded>
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         <title>Old text, future interference -- comment #38 from Alan Bostick</title>
         <description>comment from Alan Bostick on 17.Dec.03</description>
         <content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I'm beginning to wonder about the merits of hacking root on the nielsenhayden.com server.  Suppose one were caught.  Under these circumstances, no jury would convict....</p>]]>
	 &lt;p&gt;Posted December 17, 2003 12:20 PM by Alan Bostick&lt;/p&gt;</content:encoded>
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         <pubDate>Wed, 17 Dec 2003 12:20:53 -0500</pubDate>
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         <title>Old text, future interference -- comment #39 from Tom Whitmore</title>
         <description>comment from Tom Whitmore on 17.Dec.03</description>
         <content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Saheli, Bookfinder and ABEBooks each turn up a few copies all at (basically) $40. I found mine over 20 years ago, and haven't seen but one or two others, in private collections, since. You might want to check and see if a copy is available through interlibrary loan, if you can access that local to where you are. As I say, it's a few sequences within the book. Since my mother had a PhD in Math, and I almost got mine in that field (went for Zoology instead), I found it fascinating. </p>]]>
	 &lt;p&gt;Posted December 17, 2003 12:48 PM by Tom Whitmore&lt;/p&gt;</content:encoded>
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         <pubDate>Wed, 17 Dec 2003 12:48:14 -0500</pubDate>
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         <title>Old text, future interference -- comment #40 from Tom Whitmore</title>
         <description>comment from Tom Whitmore on 17.Dec.03</description>
         <content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Correction to previous post -- I only went for a BA, and almost got it in Math (I really should preview...). Have no PhD, don't want to imply I do.</p>]]>
	 &lt;p&gt;Posted December 17, 2003 12:49 PM by Tom Whitmore&lt;/p&gt;</content:encoded>
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         <pubDate>Wed, 17 Dec 2003 12:49:39 -0500</pubDate>
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         <title>Old text, future interference -- comment #41 from Teresa, please fix the italics</title>
         <description>comment from Teresa, please fix the italics on 17.Dec.03</description>
         <content:encoded><![CDATA[<p></p>]]>
	 &lt;p&gt;Posted December 17, 2003  1:25 PM by Teresa, please fix the italics&lt;/p&gt;</content:encoded>
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         <pubDate>Wed, 17 Dec 2003 13:25:26 -0500</pubDate>
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         <title>Old text, future interference -- comment #42 from Teresa Nielsen Hayden</title>
         <description>comment from Teresa Nielsen Hayden on 17.Dec.03</description>
         <content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Sorry about that. I've been offline. I just got back from a movie marathon in New Jersey.</p>]]>
	 &lt;p&gt;Posted December 17, 2003  1:43 PM by Teresa Nielsen Hayden&lt;/p&gt;</content:encoded>
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         <pubDate>Wed, 17 Dec 2003 13:43:13 -0500</pubDate>
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         <title>Old text, future interference -- comment #43 from Xopher</title>
         <description>comment from Xopher on 17.Dec.03</description>
         <content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Teresa, I think ROTK is the best of the three.  I also think there were two moments that made me exclaim in outrage.  What did you think?</p>]]>
	 &lt;p&gt;Posted December 17, 2003  2:13 PM by Xopher&lt;/p&gt;</content:encoded>
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         <title>Old text, future interference -- comment #44 from Tina</title>
         <description>comment from Tina on 17.Dec.03</description>
         <content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Just for the record, to "FIX THE D*MN ITALICS" and "Teach Yourself HTML" for the most part, but also to anyone else who made a big deal about this (mentioning it is not a 'big deal', harping on it is):</p>

<p>Hey, wow, Teresa made a mistake. I know we don't expect that from her, but she is -- I hear by rumour at least -- human. And then she was too busy to notice and fix it for a couple days. SO WHAT? DEAL WITH IT. It's just italics. A little annoying, but nothing worth being a butthead over.</p>

<p>She doesn't seem upset about it, but I personally found particularly the two people I actually named to be unconscionably rude. You're a guest here, partaking of a free service that granted you may contribute to, but is nonetheless hosted by someone else on their own dime and their own free time, and you know what? You have no entitlements, only privileges.</p>

<p>Pointing out an error politely is one thing. But acting like Teresa, instead of making a small error, was ignorant of HTML or somehow committed a horrible faux pas by forgetting a close tag... that makes you a butthead in my book.</p>

<p>(I actually meant to post this the other day, but got busy myself, speaking of free time sometimes interfering with weblogs.)</p>]]>
	 &lt;p&gt;Posted December 17, 2003  2:56 PM by Tina&lt;/p&gt;</content:encoded>
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         <pubDate>Wed, 17 Dec 2003 14:56:38 -0500</pubDate>
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         <title>Old text, future interference -- comment #45 from Kip W</title>
         <description>comment from Kip W on 17.Dec.03</description>
         <content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>A decade or so back, I saw a stylish little animated piece called (if memory serves <i>this</i> time) THE CLEANING LADY. Maybe it was THE CLEANING WOMAN. One of the two. Anyway, this drudge of a woman is dusting away at a statue when her mad scientist employer comes bounding into the room with his time machine, and he needs a subject. A moment later, the cleaning lady or woman is on the bridge of the Titanic. Exerting herself enough to point, she says: </p>

<p>"iceberg."</p>

<p>She is then whisked back to the film's present. I suppose she must have changed things just enough to delay the invention of the machine, because here comes the mad scientist again, and she's off to another era, and another, and another.</p>

<p>Somewhere along the way, as she dusts a groove into the marble, she's sent back to a limousine driving through Dealey Plaza, where she says:</p>

<p>"why don't you and Jackie trade places?"</p>

<p>The limo drives out of our view, shots ring out, and bystanders shout, "They've shot the First Lady!"</p>

<p>This was the crowd pleaser. The audience at the Naro loved it. It also gave me a fantasy that comes back at odd moments of a terminally unexcited housekeeper at the door of the Dakota, saying:</p>

<p>"why don't you and Yoko trade places?"</p>]]>
	 &lt;p&gt;Posted December 17, 2003  3:02 PM by Kip W&lt;/p&gt;</content:encoded>
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         <pubDate>Wed, 17 Dec 2003 15:02:24 -0500</pubDate>
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         <title>Old text, future interference -- comment #46 from Stephan Brun</title>
         <description>comment from Stephan Brun on 17.Dec.03</description>
         <content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Tina, Teresa:  I hope my posts didn't cause offence, I tried to be humourous about it. It's just that whenever I pass by something that isn't quite right, I get this terrible urge to fix it, sorry...</p>]]>
	 &lt;p&gt;Posted December 17, 2003  4:40 PM by Stephan Brun&lt;/p&gt;</content:encoded>
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         <pubDate>Wed, 17 Dec 2003 16:40:05 -0500</pubDate>
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         <title>Old text, future interference -- comment #47 from Erik Nelson</title>
         <description>comment from Erik Nelson on 17.Dec.03</description>
         <content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I was surprised that you say there is a color called Time Traveller Blue. I beg to differ. The color of time travel is of course, fuchsia.</p>]]>
	 &lt;p&gt;Posted December 17, 2003  5:06 PM by Erik Nelson&lt;/p&gt;</content:encoded>
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         <pubDate>Wed, 17 Dec 2003 17:06:40 -0500</pubDate>
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         <title>Old text, future interference -- comment #48 from adamsj</title>
         <description>comment from adamsj on 17.Dec.03</description>
         <content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>And now they're coming <a href="http://www.informationweek.com/story/showArticle.jhtml?articleID=17000138" rel="nofollow">from the past</a>--and lying to us!</p>]]>
	 &lt;p&gt;Posted December 17, 2003  5:56 PM by adamsj&lt;/p&gt;</content:encoded>
         <link>https://nielsenhayden.com/makinglight/archives/004260.html#34599</link>
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         <pubDate>Wed, 17 Dec 2003 17:56:55 -0500</pubDate>
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         <title>Old text, future interference -- comment #49 from BSD</title>
         <description>comment from BSD on 17.Dec.03</description>
         <content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>In which case, Godel was an agent of <i>someone</i>, sent to ensure that we left the path of all-encompassing mathematics (a sure path to gateway-opening equations, liable to invite in things Man was Not Meant to Have Tea With, and put us on the path to incomplete mathematics, quite useful, but lacking in this-equation-erases-reality coolness.</p>]]>
	 &lt;p&gt;Posted December 17, 2003 11:16 PM by BSD&lt;/p&gt;</content:encoded>
         <link>https://nielsenhayden.com/makinglight/archives/004260.html#34629</link>
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         <pubDate>Wed, 17 Dec 2003 23:16:48 -0500</pubDate>
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         <title>Old text, future interference -- comment #50 from Patrick Nielsen Hayden</title>
         <description>comment from Patrick Nielsen Hayden on 17.Dec.03</description>
         <content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I still want to know why John Farrell is so astounded that I watch <i>Buffy</i>.  (Or, as John puts it, "...Buffy???")</p>]]>
	 &lt;p&gt;Posted December 17, 2003 11:52 PM by Patrick Nielsen Hayden&lt;/p&gt;</content:encoded>
         <link>https://nielsenhayden.com/makinglight/archives/004260.html#34632</link>
         <guid isPermaLink="true">https://nielsenhayden.com/makinglight/archives/004260.html#34632</guid>
         <pubDate>Wed, 17 Dec 2003 23:52:51 -0500</pubDate>
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         <title>Old text, future interference -- comment #51 from Robert L</title>
         <description>comment from Robert L on  4.Jan.04</description>
         <content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Tom Whitmore: Most of the Jordan Park books are by Kornbluth, not Pohl, as far as I know. However, in the case of <i>Sorority House</i>: Maybe 10 years ago or so, I was at the annual SFWA cocktail party at the top of the St. Regis. I found myself at some point sitting at a table with Fred Pohl and some publishing people who shall remain nameless--people who while they knew more or less who he was, probably weren't particular fans, nor did they probably realize <i>just</i> who he was. By this time I'd had a few drinks. I looked over at Pohl, who seemed bored. So out of nowhere, I asked, "So, did you write <i>Sorority House,</i> or was it Kornbluuth. or...?" (I'd recently found  a nice copy for 25a2 at a library sale.) Without batting an eyelash, Pohl answerred, "Cyril rote the first 20,000 words and then got stalled, so I finished it."<br />
  So there you have it.<br />
  Those not familiar with this book, which is out of print and hard to find except for people like me and Tom, can see the cover in Jaye Zimet's excellent book of lesbian paperback covers, <i>Strange Sisters.</i></p>]]>
	 &lt;p&gt;Posted January  4, 2004  4:08 AM by Robert L&lt;/p&gt;</content:encoded>
         <link>https://nielsenhayden.com/makinglight/archives/004260.html#35921</link>
         <guid isPermaLink="true">https://nielsenhayden.com/makinglight/archives/004260.html#35921</guid>
         <pubDate>Sun, 04 Jan 2004 04:08:21 -0500</pubDate>
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         <title>Old text, future interference -- comment #52 from Robert L</title>
         <description>comment from Robert L on  4.Jan.04</description>
         <content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Woops: make that "Kornbluth" and "wrote."<br />
My keyboard sucks.</p>]]>
	 &lt;p&gt;Posted January  4, 2004  4:10 AM by Robert L&lt;/p&gt;</content:encoded>
         <link>https://nielsenhayden.com/makinglight/archives/004260.html#35922</link>
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         <pubDate>Sun, 04 Jan 2004 04:10:49 -0500</pubDate>
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         <title>Old text, future interference -- comment #53 from Alan Bostick</title>
         <description>comment from Alan Bostick on  4.Jan.04</description>
         <content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Naah, it's just that the Holy Ghost doesn't work the graveyard shift.</p>]]>
	 &lt;p&gt;Posted January  4, 2004 12:18 PM by Alan Bostick&lt;/p&gt;</content:encoded>
         <link>https://nielsenhayden.com/makinglight/archives/004260.html#35937</link>
         <guid isPermaLink="true">https://nielsenhayden.com/makinglight/archives/004260.html#35937</guid>
         <pubDate>Sun, 04 Jan 2004 12:18:31 -0500</pubDate>
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         <title>Old text, future interference -- comment #54 from Tom Whitmore</title>
         <description>comment from Tom Whitmore on  4.Jan.04</description>
         <content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I'd always heard the Parks were collaborations (except for VALERIE, which has two editions with textual differences). Ah well, just re-read the second ed of Simon Eisner's THE NAKED STORM (another pseudonym not entirely clearly either Pohl or Kornbluth, also published by Lion Books).</p>

<p>Another odd mathematical fantasy just read: KANDELMAN'S KRIM, by the mathematician J. L. Synge. Not a particularly good story, but the Introduction has several wonderful bits on the nature of books, some of which I've quoted elsewhere. The story itself has too much math and not enough plot. Ah well. If you're collecting mathematical fantasies, though, it's an essential work (like Mack Reynolds' CASE OF THE LITTLE GREEN MEN is essential for those collecting novels set at SF conventions).</p>]]>
	 &lt;p&gt;Posted January  4, 2004  2:17 PM by Tom Whitmore&lt;/p&gt;</content:encoded>
         <link>https://nielsenhayden.com/makinglight/archives/004260.html#35944</link>
         <guid isPermaLink="true">https://nielsenhayden.com/makinglight/archives/004260.html#35944</guid>
         <pubDate>Sun, 04 Jan 2004 14:17:36 -0500</pubDate>
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         <title>Old text, future interference -- comment #55 from Stan Isaacs</title>
         <description>comment from Stan Isaacs on 15.Mar.04</description>
         <content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I'm just browsing (looking at Stomachion references), and noticed the mathematical science fiction question.  I suggest the web site:</p>

<p>http://math.cofc.edu/faculty/kasman/MATHFICT/default.html</p>

<p>which has lots of mathematical fiction references.</p>]]>
	 &lt;p&gt;Posted March 15, 2004  8:41 PM by Stan Isaacs&lt;/p&gt;</content:encoded>
         <link>https://nielsenhayden.com/makinglight/archives/004260.html#42512</link>
         <guid isPermaLink="true">https://nielsenhayden.com/makinglight/archives/004260.html#42512</guid>
         <pubDate>Mon, 15 Mar 2004 20:41:21 -0500</pubDate>
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         <title>Old text, future interference -- comment #56 from Janet Brennan Croft</title>
         <description>comment from Janet Brennan Croft on 16.Mar.04</description>
         <content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>If we can broaden "mathematical SF" to include "mathematical fantasy", add Margaret Ball's Mathemagics to the list -- and the associated short stories that appeared in a couple of the Chicks in Chain Mail anthologies.</p>]]>
	 &lt;p&gt;Posted March 16, 2004  2:16 PM by Janet Brennan Croft&lt;/p&gt;</content:encoded>
         <link>https://nielsenhayden.com/makinglight/archives/004260.html#42525</link>
         <guid isPermaLink="true">https://nielsenhayden.com/makinglight/archives/004260.html#42525</guid>
         <pubDate>Tue, 16 Mar 2004 14:16:44 -0500</pubDate>
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         <title>Old text, future interference -- comment #57 from Bill Blum finds comment spam</title>
         <description>comment from Bill Blum finds comment spam on  5.Jul.04</description>
         <content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Gah.   Least it's not porn, this time.</p>

<p>( Unless you're a Mac Zealot, then this doesn't even qualify as good Mac porn. )</p>]]>
	 &lt;p&gt;Posted July  5, 2004  7:02 PM by Bill Blum finds comment spam&lt;/p&gt;</content:encoded>
         <link>https://nielsenhayden.com/makinglight/archives/004260.html#52716</link>
         <guid isPermaLink="true">https://nielsenhayden.com/makinglight/archives/004260.html#52716</guid>
         <pubDate>Mon, 05 Jul 2004 19:02:30 -0500</pubDate>
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         <title>Old text, future interference -- comment #58 from Harry Connolly finds comment spam</title>
         <description>comment from Harry Connolly finds comment spam on 19.Oct.04</description>
         <content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>.</p>]]>
	 &lt;p&gt;Posted October 19, 2004  7:25 AM by Harry Connolly finds comment spam&lt;/p&gt;</content:encoded>
         <link>https://nielsenhayden.com/makinglight/archives/004260.html#59750</link>
         <guid isPermaLink="true">https://nielsenhayden.com/makinglight/archives/004260.html#59750</guid>
         <pubDate>Tue, 19 Oct 2004 07:25:05 -0500</pubDate>
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         <title>Old text, future interference -- comment #59 from Syd sees spam-like material</title>
         <description>comment from Syd sees spam-like material on  8.Nov.11</description>
         <content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>At #59.  Might be a valid comment, but seems a little...off to me.</p>]]>
	 &lt;p&gt;Posted November  8, 2011 12:52 PM by Syd sees spam-like material&lt;/p&gt;</content:encoded>
         <link>https://nielsenhayden.com/makinglight/archives/004260.html#617319</link>
         <guid isPermaLink="true">https://nielsenhayden.com/makinglight/archives/004260.html#617319</guid>
         <pubDate>Tue, 08 Nov 2011 12:52:51 -0500</pubDate>
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         <title>Old text, future interference -- comment #60 from Tom Whitmore sees intelligent spam</title>
         <description>comment from Tom Whitmore sees intelligent spam on  8.Nov.11</description>
         <content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Intelligent, but irrelevant.</p>]]>
	 &lt;p&gt;Posted November  8, 2011 12:53 PM by Tom Whitmore sees intelligent spam&lt;/p&gt;</content:encoded>
         <link>https://nielsenhayden.com/makinglight/archives/004260.html#617320</link>
         <guid isPermaLink="true">https://nielsenhayden.com/makinglight/archives/004260.html#617320</guid>
         <pubDate>Tue, 08 Nov 2011 12:53:11 -0500</pubDate>
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         <title>Old text, future interference -- comment #61 from Syd sees spam-like material</title>
         <description>comment from Syd sees spam-like material on  8.Nov.11</description>
         <content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Tom Whitmore @ 61: jinx!  :)</p>]]>
	 &lt;p&gt;Posted November  8, 2011 12:54 PM by Syd sees spam-like material&lt;/p&gt;</content:encoded>
         <link>https://nielsenhayden.com/makinglight/archives/004260.html#617321</link>
         <guid isPermaLink="true">https://nielsenhayden.com/makinglight/archives/004260.html#617321</guid>
         <pubDate>Tue, 08 Nov 2011 12:54:19 -0500</pubDate>
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         <title>Old text, future interference -- comment #62 from GlendaP sees SPAM</title>
         <description>comment from GlendaP sees SPAM on 14.Nov.11</description>
         <content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>.</p>]]>
	 &lt;p&gt;Posted November 14, 2011  4:08 AM by GlendaP sees SPAM&lt;/p&gt;</content:encoded>
         <link>https://nielsenhayden.com/makinglight/archives/004260.html#621351</link>
         <guid isPermaLink="true">https://nielsenhayden.com/makinglight/archives/004260.html#621351</guid>
         <pubDate>Mon, 14 Nov 2011 04:08:36 -0500</pubDate>
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