God forbid I be first to post...

Damn! I can't think of anything to say...

Give me a second...

Posted August 6, 2004 1:48 PM by Randall P.

Okay, to be quite honest, I know absolutely nothing about sci-fi or fantasy books. I've never read them (thinking that comic books accounted for my sci-fi and fantasy intake). So, can anyone here give me a primer on what books to read in order to begin the long slog into this genre? What's the best of the best? I don't want to waste my time on mediocre titles. What can I go out there and pick-up that will make me go, "Holy crap! I can't believe that I've been missing out on this all of these years!"

Talk amongst yourselves...

Posted August 6, 2004 1:50 PM by Randall P.

....Lew is to Kein.

(proof left as exercise to student.)

Posted August 6, 2004 1:56 PM by Erik V. Olson

Teresa, you should write a gonzo dot-com knitting book called The Clewskein Manifesto. (Joke explained here.)

Posted August 6, 2004 2:02 PM by Alexander Cohen

randall: you're about to be hit by an avalanche. to stem the tide a little, what do you usually read? just saying "comics" gives us an awefully huge target.

and some of your time is bound to be spent on what you think are mediocre titles. tastes differ. and there's always sturgeon's law.

Posted August 6, 2004 2:12 PM by sundre

Best of the best? Jaysus, Randall, are ya tryin' to start a flamewar?

It's a really tough question to answer knowing nothing about your other reading tastes. What else do you enjoy in entertainment? Who are your favorite authors? What comics do you like, especially ones with sf or fantasy elements? What genre-flavored movies did you love seeing?

You'll still get more answers than your time and budget can handle, but at least it's a start...

Posted August 6, 2004 2:19 PM by Dan Layman-Kennedy

I dunno about absolute "best," but how 'bout "enjoyed and had fun reading?"

[Note: I'm not a member of Organized Fandom--didn't want to amputate my pinky, or wear the secret tattoos-- so you may get different, better advice from others.]

In no particular order:

1. Anne McCaffrey, Pegasus books and Talent books. Loved 'em, but could never get into her Pern books.

2. Alan Dean Foster, Early Pip and Flinx books, and most of the rest of his books, too. In particular, Sentenced to Prism, for outstanding imaginativeness.

3. Diane Duane. Anything.

4. Diana Wynne Jones. Anything.

5. The Old Master ABCs: Azimov, Bradbury, Clarke, ...

Posted August 6, 2004 2:19 PM by Andy Perrin

Much as I hate Piers Anthony, I have to say that Crewel Lye, a Caustic Yarn is the best English-language pun I've ever heard. (Well, maybe Shakespeare's "Bottom, thou art translated!")

Posted August 6, 2004 2:22 PM by Xopher

Early Anthony is fun, but you have to love puns. The poor man is writing on a mobius strip, though.

Posted August 6, 2004 2:26 PM by Andy Perrin

It was his racism that turned me off initially.

Posted August 6, 2004 2:29 PM by Xopher

I'm going to ignore Randall's question (sorry) and ask one of my own, which I bet at least a few people here will have an opinion on.

The question concerns Cerebus. I started reading it long about issue 60 (of course I went back and read all the previous ones) and stopped arround 114 for a number of not particularly good reasons (lack of easy access to a comics store, that sort of thing).

I contemplated getting back into it a few times over the years, but always put it off, eventually deciding that I'd wait until it was finished (I did pick up a number of issues from the late 100s cheap once, but I didn't read them).

Well, it's finished now, but I am somewhat leery of shelling out the money for the rest of the series (in either individual issue or book form) because Dave Sim appears to have gone nuts. If you haven't seen any interviews with him recently, he appears to have turned into a total misogynistic right-wing crank. He uses the term "feminist" much the way Joe McCarthy used to use "communist," for a start, and has said a lot of other things about how women are weak and evil and make beer spoil by looking at at and so forth.

So, my question is, are the 186 issues of the series that I haven't read, anything I'm going to want to read? I am having trouble imagining that attitudes that savage didn't affect his writing.

Posted August 6, 2004 2:39 PM by Dan Blum

Hmmm...yeah, I can see how that would happen. I last read Anthony ten years ago, but thinking back on it, there was quite a lot of racism. Particularly in Ghost. Don't remember the Xanth books being as bad, but I was in high school and it could easily have flown over my head.

Posted August 6, 2004 2:40 PM by Andy Perrin

"...women are weak and evil and make beer spoil by looking at at and so forth."

No wonder I can never get a decent frickin' beer, lol.

Posted August 6, 2004 2:46 PM by Sugnwrgwaed

synonym is to analogue

Posted August 6, 2004 3:04 PM by Kelly Brown

Randall: My so-far favorite book is Little, Big by John Crowley. Urban fantasy, multifariously layered, and some great twists of plot and dialogue. I've been reading it about once a year for, oh, about a decade now. But I absolutely hated it the first time - I couldn't get into it at all. This frustrated me so much that I went back and tried again and have never regretted it.

If you've got the patience and the temperment, perhaps a chronological approach might work. I have a soft spot for most of Heinlein's juveniles.

Then there's Asimov's short stories, some stuff by Andre Norton, or maybe Tiptree.

For contemporary fiction, I have to say that Nalo Hopkinson is doing some excellent work. As is Neil Gaiman. And I'm heavily attached to some of Margaret Atwood's books.

And if you're still into comics, the next book on my list of things-that-must-be-bought is the Flight anthology.

Sugnwrgwaed: do you live under a bridge?

Posted August 6, 2004 3:07 PM by sundre

Randall, the problem with asking for recommendations in a genre you don't read is that the best of the best is different for different people. There are plenty of beloved books and beloved authors, but you might dislike any one of them and think "Guess I haven't been missing much."

Do you like to read adventure books? Intricate mystery plots? Exotic travel? Plotless style-fests?

Looking forward to helping.

Also: rejection lowers your IQ.

http://www.newscientist.com/news/news.jsp?id=ns99992051

Posted August 6, 2004 3:12 PM by Harry Connolly

Everyone needs one of these, although they may not realize it yet. Really breaks the ice. Great fun at parties. Worldcon participants, take note!

This is really odd. A flash cartoon, in poorly translated English, that seems to be an advert for a line of toys from the Insane Asylum for Abused Plush Animals.

In the Portland area, maybe elsewhere, blackberry plants are weeds. They're everywhere. Right now, they're everywhere and sagging with fruit. I picked over two gallons of them last weekend, and made three pies and twelve jars of jam. (My breadmaker has a Jam setting! All it needs is a Butter Churn setting and I'd have breakfast sewn up.) I discovered that I could distract my dog with blackberries for the first two picking sessions, but she eventually came to equate the harvest with wading up to her armpits in thorny vines and now she politely drops the berries I offer her.

Posted August 6, 2004 3:13 PM by Stefan Jones

Okay, reading tastes...

When it comes to comics, I dig everything that Warren Ellis does. I missed Sandman entirely during that bleak period of time when I was in university and sold all my comics for beer money (sorry to Neil Gaiman...although I know of the lavish praise that most heap upon him, I'm still just getting to know him).

I guess when it comes to comics, I like anything that says something "new". I hate continuity. I'll read absolutely anything Alan Moore creates. Tom Strong and Top Ten have to be two of the most inventive and imaginative stories ever created and if I could live in that universe for the rest of my life, I'd be a happy man. (I also like Bendis' "Ultimate Spider-Man"...basically, I like anything that's fun, full of imagination, and rekindles that sense of wonder that I loved as a child and rarely experience as an adult).

When it comes to everything else, I'm a news junkie. I love non-fiction. One of my favorite books has to be Robert Young Pelton's "World's Most Dangerous Places" (a must read for almost everyone here).

Sorry, I know that's vague. I'm not trying to start flame-wars. I would seriously like to know where to start. It's a vast world of fiction out there and there seems to be a LOT of people in the know. It can be quite intimidating as to where to start.

SO NEW CHALLENGE: Each person here can only recommend ONE book for me to read. How's that?

And Dan: No offense taken at all. You should check out Neil Gaiman's site this week, as he currently has a challenge with Dave Sim about getting free copies of "Cerebus". Dave says he'll give free copies of his comics to anyone who snail-mails him about the little "contest" (I'm paraphrasing, of course...go check it out yourself...).

Posted August 6, 2004 3:17 PM by Randall P.

Dan Blum: I suggest picking up a copy of Jaka's Story which started right about the time you left off. Melmoth is also worth considering. Beyond that, the crank factor begins bleeding through too much to ignore.

Posted August 6, 2004 3:18 PM by Sam Herdman

Recommendations: What Harry Said.

One person's enchanting fantasy is another's bloated indulgent wish-fullfillment-laden suckfest.

That said, an incredibly random selection:

_The Stars my Destination_ by Alfred Bester
_Star Maker_ by Olaf Stapledon
_Have Space Suit, Will Travel_ by Heinlein
_Schismatrix_ by Bruce Sterling
_Holy Fire_ by Bruce Sterling
A short story collection by LeGuin. Just find one.
_A Fire Upon the Deep_ by Vernor Vinge

Posted August 6, 2004 3:19 PM by Stefan Jones

sundre: I've been reading it about once a year for, oh, about a decade now.

That's what I do with Susan Cooper's The Dark is Rising every Christmas. (As an agnostic from a Jewish family, it's admittedly a little hard to get into the Christmas spirit, but I try. I still haven't figured me out.)

Posted August 6, 2004 3:19 PM by Andy Perrin

Ah. Message lag.

Just one?

OK: _The Stars my Destination._

Posted August 6, 2004 3:20 PM by Stefan Jones

Randall - I'm in a similar boat, returning to reading Fantasy and SF after a number of years reading other things, including way too many Tom Peters books.

Rather than rattle off a reading list, I'll share what I'm doing.

First, I'm going back and checking out some books that I'd always meant to read, such as Neal Stephenson's Snow Crash and Cryptonomicon. If you poke through the comments, you'll find some fairly impassioned comments about Snowcrash about two or three months ago.

Secondly, I've gone to the library and borrowed some anthologies. Right now, I'm reading Starlight 3 (a blatant plug for a fine Nielsen Hayden Industries product) which is helping me identify some authors whose work I'd like to explore.

Thirdly, I'm checking out things that have won Hugos or Nebulas.

Finally, since I'm not getting any younger, I'm making snap judgements. If I'm not enjoying a book, I stop and read something else. It's amazing how long it took me to learn how to do this. For example, George RR Martin was recommended to me. I picked up a copy of A Game of Thrones at the library, and I didn't like it. The writing was fine, the story was fine, it just didn't engage me, but you might love it. So I returned it after reading only the first 150 pages of so.

This method is working for me - I hope it helps you.

Posted August 6, 2004 3:28 PM by Larry Brennan

stephan: i'm reading that one right now, actually. i'm starting to think that i'm an anachronism. i recently bought a typewriter as well.

andy: oh, i haven't looked at her books in years. i remember that one as being my favorite of hers. my reading goes in phases, and there's one for children's lit every couple years. c.s.lewis and lloyd alexander are other old favorites in that arena.

randall: sorry, guy. i told you it was going to be an avalanche. the folx round here read all kinds and like to share, and the recommendations are on this side of good. someone once mentioned murder must advertise by dorothy sayers, and i've now gone and read the entire lord peter wimsey series as a result.

Posted August 6, 2004 3:36 PM by sundre

Randall:

basically, I like anything that's fun, full of imagination, and rekindles that sense of wonder that I loved as a child and rarely experience as an adult

Well, for fun sci-fi I don't think you can beat the Miles Vorkosigan series by Lois McMaster Bujold. Excellent space opera, with fascinating characters and interesting situations.

Posted August 6, 2004 3:37 PM by Tiger Spot

Dan Blum: I suggest picking up a copy of Jaka's Story which started right about the time you left off. Melmoth is also worth considering. Beyond that, the crank factor begins bleeding through too much to ignore.

I was afraid of that. And I'm not sure I want to read a few chapters of the whole, if the later ones are anything like Church & State, which I recall as having a lot of dangly bits ("there are two other aardvarks in Estarcion") - if those bits are never going to be picked up and tied off because I won't read far enough, I don't know much I'll like it.

Posted August 6, 2004 3:39 PM by Dan Blum

Larry - You know, your "snap judgements" recommendation may be one of the best pieces of advice that I've heard in a while. I find my time to be so valuable that I never take the time to read the books I've always wanted to read because I always feel like I HAVE to finish them. From now on, I will refer to this as "Larry Brennan's Snap Judgements". Thanks!

Sundre: You know, I stumbled on this open thread and no one had commented, so I got nervous and tried to come up with a good topic about which I'd like more information. Little did I know...Little did I know...

Posted August 6, 2004 3:41 PM by Randall P.

Tiger Spot,

I second the motion on the Vorkosigan series. I also like Bujold's new work, beginning with The Curse of Chalion.

Posted August 6, 2004 3:51 PM by Mandalei

Sundre - yes, I do, in a manner of speaking. Check the link....

Posted August 6, 2004 3:55 PM by Sugnwrgwaed

My gateway to SF as a genre was Nancy Kress's Beggars in Spain when I was 12. It worked quite well for me, and I still enjoy it.

Posted August 6, 2004 3:56 PM by Mris

. . . so dew is to rain.

(And yes, The Stars My Destination, very much yes.)

Posted August 6, 2004 3:59 PM by Amanda

Randall: having just successfully given Guy Gavriel Kay's _Tigana_ to an English professor friend who wanted to get into reading fantasy, I'm going to go with that. I actually wrote it up a while ago on an LiveJournal comment so I'm going to plagiarize myself (all hail Gmail for turning it up easily):

It's set on an Italy-inspired peninsula, which, in the prologue, is being conquered by two different overseas leaders--Brandin, the complex bad guy, and Alberico, the non-complex bad guy. Then, in a battle at one of the provinces, Brandin's beloved son is killed; so Brandin lays waste to the province, renames it after its (previously) bitterest enemy, and curses it so that only people born in the province before the curse can hear the province's name (which is, of course, Tigana).

At the time of the story, Alberico and Brandin each control equal parts of the peninsula, with a carefully neutral province holding the balance (IIRC). Brandin is holding on, waiting for the generation born before the curse to die, to finish his vengenance and completely obliterate the name Tigana. The plot starts as various characters attempt to free the peninsula from the two conquerers' grips.

Posted August 6, 2004 4:03 PM by Kate Nepveu

(Or I could be wicked and recommend _Freedom and Necessity_, but it's not as direct a gateway into the genre, so I won't.)

Posted August 6, 2004 4:07 PM by Kate Nepveu

Ursula K. LeGuin's A Wizard of Earthsea trilogy. Okay, so technically speaking that's actually three books....

Posted August 6, 2004 4:20 PM by NelC

Sorry Randall, but I really have to add: The Time Traveler's Wife, Audrey Niffenegger.

Book is a tearjerker. I'm three-quarters of the way through, and I had to stop reading because it's sooo saaaaad. *sniffle* Will continue reading when I work up the courage. If you like TTTW, try Jack Finney.

Posted August 6, 2004 4:21 PM by Andy Perrin

...so Neuromancer, by William Gibson is to A Fire Upon the Deep, by Vernor Vinge

Posted August 6, 2004 4:37 PM by gene

... so meter is to rhythm.

One book: The Forgotten Beasts of Eld by Patricia McKillip

---L.

Posted August 6, 2004 4:49 PM by L.N. Hammer

If you like Alan Moore, you would probably also like two similarly witty, erudite, and political writers, Iain Banks and China Mieville.

By China Mieville: PERDIDO STREET STATION.

In the bizarre city of New Crobuzon, where humans mingle uneasily with aliens and cyborgs, the slovenly scientist Isaac Dan Der Grimnebulin is hired to restore a once-winged man's power of flight. Meanwhile, Isaac's girlfriend Lin, an avant-garde artist who belongs to a race of people who have scarab beetles for heads, gets a weird commission from a local crime boss. Isaac and Lin have a really touching and believable relationship, and New Crobuzon is infinitely fascinating and inventive. If necessary, skip the clunky prologue.

By Iain M. Banks: PLAYER OF GAMES. In a society of mind-boggling vastness and plenty, where people can switch gender and live almost indefinitely and everything is provided for, a game-player gets bored. Whereupon he's invited to participate in a very unusual tournament.

This is dark and very funny and fizzes with ideas. Just to give you an idea of how Banks' mind works, there's these intelligent ships with names like GCU Just Read The Instructions, GCU Of Course I Still Love You, GSV So Much For Subtlety, and GSV Youthful Indiscretion.

There are other books set in the same world, but they all stand alone.

Posted August 6, 2004 4:52 PM by Rachel Brown

Thanks to all who have given me advice. I greatly appreciate it. (Just a note of appreciation...I still want more, more, MORE!!).

Bonus points for Kate and Rachel for making my book-finding trips a bit easier by providing me with a brief synopsis...

Posted August 6, 2004 4:56 PM by Randall P.

... so the stress-energy tensor is to a Lorenz-invarient Hamiltonian.

Good recs from Rachel, btw.

---L.

Posted August 6, 2004 5:00 PM by L.N. Hammer

... so quatloos are to simoleans.

---L.

Posted August 6, 2004 5:03 PM by L.N. Hammer

All right, I'll say it.

Try Douglas Adam's _The Hitchhiker's Guide to the Galaxy_

It's comedic SF, which is my speciality, but I think a lot of people have a warm spot in their heart for that oddly-shaped five book trilogy.

Posted August 6, 2004 5:07 PM by Leah Miller

Picking one book from my list of all-time favorites... a worthy challenge!

But that book would have to be Clive Barker's Imajica. Big, sprawling, epic, surreal, and full of unforgettable images; maybe the best genre-bending subversive feminist genderf**k dimension-hopping religious quest fantasy ever. I tend to think that if you like Alan Moore and Warren Ellis, you'll find this one rewarding.

(And if you like Imajica, you'll probably dig Mieville's Perdido Street Station. Yeah, I'm cheating. It's true, though.)

Posted August 6, 2004 5:08 PM by Dan Layman-Kennedy

Dan Blum: if you stopped reading Cerebus at issue 114, you stopped at exactly the right time. Do not follow the well-meant advice to try Jaka's Story and Melmoth: they are merely less bad than the profoundly awful stuff that succeeded them. And if you have any heart, you will not give Dave Sim any more of your money.

Do you remember from earlier issues a few references to a troupe of incompetent parody-feminist warriors called the Cirinists? Well, at the end of Church and State - the very point you stopped - they conquer Iest, turning out to be ruthless, nasty, and not at all incompetent hive-mind ninja totalitarians. From that point on nothing is funny any more, although occasionally Sim thinks it's funny.

By the way, not only does Sim not ignore the reference to the two other aardvarks, he picks it up and triumphantly waves it around, which is a small part of the problem.

Randall, my one fantasy book to recommend to you is the adult novel by someone else that I am most reminded of by the mixture of genres and effects that characterizes Neil Gaiman: The Face in the Frost by John Bellairs.

Posted August 6, 2004 5:09 PM by Calimac

Based on a previous recommendation for the Miles Vorkosigan series, there's a novella available for free on the Baen web site:

http://www.baen.com/library/lmbujold.htm

Posted August 6, 2004 5:10 PM by Jules

I am not sure that a Banks Culture book is the best place to start reading science fiction - it seems to me that it would be Too Much - but I could certainly be wrong. I think I might recommend Consider Phlebas over The Player of Games - the latter is a better book but I think the former might be easier going.

I don't know what I'd recommend for science fiction, really. For fantasy, I would recommend Barry Hughart's Bridge of Birds and The Dragon Waiting by a Mr. Ford of this parish. The Hughart is a colorful and often hilarious (but not silly) quest story set in T'ang dynasty China. The Dragon Waiting, which is set in an alternate-history 15th-century Europe (with significant fantasy elements), is a chewier read, but if you like a book that says many things subtly, you should enjoy it.

Posted August 6, 2004 5:10 PM by Dan Blum

_Player of Games_ and _The Dragon Waiting_ are out of print in the US (Randall, I'm not sure I know where you are). However, I have a spare _The Dragon Waiting_ free to a good home.

_Hitchhiker's_ is fun but I got tired of Adams' apparent non-affection for his characters; the fifth was like a slap in the face.

That said, I have _Hitchhiker's_ on audiobook read by the author and I'm looking forward to it. It might be the soundtrack for tonight's drive to Massachusetts, even.

Posted August 6, 2004 5:15 PM by Kate Nepveu

Randall-

CJ Cherryh has my vote for Foreigner and its sequels. Backstory: A colony of spacefaring humans is lost, forced to land on a planet, make peace with the aliens, and settle permanently on an isolated island. They are left in peace in exchange for technology transfers to the aliens.

Real story: One human linguist-diplomat-anthropologist lives with the aliens as the liaison between the cultures. Then Really Cool Stuff happens. Well-written, well-imagined.

I guess that is my one book, but Neuromancer deserves a hearty second.

Posted August 6, 2004 5:32 PM by Daniel Lewis

If you want to read Douglas Adams, i personally suggest the Dirk Gently books: *Dirk Gently's Holistic Detective Agency* and the sequel, *Long, Dark Teatime of the Soul*, rather than the Hitchhiker stuff. I think it's funnier and more interesting.

I definitely second the recommendation of *Tigana* by Guy Gavriel Kay, as well as his *Fionavar Tapestry* (three books, *The Summer Tree*, *The Wandering Fire*, and *The Darkest Road*), which manage to be both Tolkien homage and Arthurian legend-retelling without being trite or overdone. The prose is beautiful, and the story is profound and sad.

Posted August 6, 2004 5:40 PM by Adrienne Travis

As many people have said, recommendations are hard. My grandfather is convinced that he doesn't like science fiction, and then he takes me aside and quizzes me about why the aliens are always humanoid. I provide copious counterexamples -- but none of them are major characters in Star Trek, which he enjoys even as he thinks it's pretty silly. Somehow it doesn't sink in, though, and every time he sees an ad for another TV show with vaguely human-shaped aliens, he's more convinced that that's how SF is. I can't decide if he's really not an SF person or if he'd make a really great SF person if only I could get him to read a geekier subset of the written stuff.

And yet Star Trek has proven a decent road in for prominent fen and authors, and has provided amusement to several more. So clearly it's not that ST is never any good as a starter.

(My friend Ed claims I'm like this with beer. I hate beer, but I'm all right with Guinness if there's nothing else to drink. He can't decide whether that makes me not a beer person at all or a really hard-core beer snob.)

Posted August 6, 2004 5:50 PM by Mris

You have some really good recommendations above, but if you ever get the flu, read Good Omens by Neil Gaiman and Terry Pratchett. It always makes me feel better.

Posted August 6, 2004 5:51 PM by Holly

Let's see... just one recomendation... I usually recomend Illuminatus! but it's not to everyone's tatse (that one doesn't count, just warming up)

If you like Neil Gaiman's comics, you might try his books (again, this is an obvious one, so it doesn't count either)

My wife just finished reading Pullman's Dark Material trilogy so she reccomends that...

For fun comic style sci-fi goodness, though I'd go with the early Neal Stephenson, either Diamond Age or Snow Crash.

Posted August 6, 2004 5:58 PM by Keith

Here's my rec: Lord of Light by Roger Zelazny.

Posted August 6, 2004 6:08 PM by Harry Connolly

Geo. RR Martin; Bujold; Guy Gavriel Kay should all be on your short list.

I also like The Domesday Book (retitled The Doomsday Book, because most did not know that Domesday Book referred to the first English census)by Connie Willis. What a way to get a Phd in History at Oxford.

Grass by Sherrie Tepper.

Dragonbones and Dragonblood (2 books) by Patricia Briggs

Dave Duncan's series starting with The Magic Casement and if you like him, read on. The King's Blades is a good series as is The King's Daggers.

Tim Powers is awesome. Start with Declare.

That is just the tip of the iceberg.

regina

Posted August 6, 2004 6:16 PM by rhc

My one book would be Patricia McKillip's :Fool's Run:, in which she turns absolutely everything upside down.

Posted August 6, 2004 6:29 PM by Graydon

Another vote for Phillip Pullman's His Dark Materials trilogy.

I recently enjoyed Robin Hobb's Farseer trilogies--there are two trilogies in the whole Farseer saga so far. I also tore through Jane Lindskold's Firekeeper books, and mentioned 'em to my siblings, who then proceeded to devour in a similar manner.

Also--and this one will depend on your taste--recommend Kushiel's Dart, by Jacqueline Carey. There is a fair amount of eroticism implicit to the books though, and some people just don't go for that, so I thought I better mention it. Great alternate world Europe with lots of fun court intrigues and perils.

Somebody else already mentioned Little, Big--but again, it's another one you should pick up.

If you haven't read Dune, you need to. (Frank Herbert) Ditto Orson Scott Card's Ender's Game and Enchantment. (But avoid the Shadow series--I will read it because I am a die-hard OSC fan, and I will read practically anything the man writes--disagreeing virulently with him when he waxes overly political. But the Shadow series kinda bugs me because A) I think it shifts the whole story from Ender's Game unintentionally, in a way that minimizes Ender and B) he gets damn preachy about his values.)

Xopher: Crewel Lye: A Caustic Yarn is my absolute favourite of Anthony's titles, although not necessarily of his books. Re-reading him makes me twitch though--I just went back to re-read A Tangled Skein and was really annoyed by all the women in the book, and how they reacted to the men. I have fond memories of the Xanth books right up until approximately Harpy Thyme, when my interest dropped to nil. It seemed that the Xanth characters were retreads of each other and had been for a long time.

Keith: I love the first chapter of Snow Crash. In fact, those first chapters make one of the awesome short stories of SF--but alas, I could never get into the middle, and the end came as a rather sudden crash to me. I re-read it about seven times and even took my copy to the bookstore to compare and make sure that I hadn't somehow gotten a defective version with missing pages.

Another recommendation: Diana Gabaldon's Outlander series is awesome and ponderous--in the sense that you could use these books to cosh burglars over the head with. But I love the details about 18th century Scotland and America, and I love how the characters evolve. It gets plugged as Romance, so you are most likely to find it in the Romance section of your local store, but it involves time travel and has some really fantastical elements.

Posted August 6, 2004 7:01 PM by PiscusFiche

Oh, and Robin McKinley's Blue Sword. YA and an old favourite. I re-read this and its prequel several times a year.

And while we're on the subject of YA: Lloyd Alexander's Prydain Chronicles, which get the most attention by readers. But I also recommend the Vesper Holly books and the Westmark trilogy--fun to read with your kids, should you have any, or to enjoy by yourself.

Posted August 6, 2004 7:04 PM by PiscusFiche

And while we're on the subject of YA: Lloyd Alexander's Prydain Chronicles, which get the most attention by readers. But I also recommend the Vesper Holly books and the Westmark trilogy--fun to read with your kids, should you have any, or to enjoy by yourself.

Alexander also wrote Time Cat, which I recall enjoying when I was a kid.

Posted August 6, 2004 7:23 PM by Dan Blum

Given what you say you like, definitely Mieville and Bester (though Mieville can be a bit slow to get into). But if I'm going to go for one introductory book, it's got to be an anthology. With short stories, you get to find out if you like the author's style and storytelling and you can then go out and find more by the same writer. And I'm also going to recommend something in print, to make your life easier. You could do a lot worse than try THE ASCENT OF WONDER edited by David Hartwell and Kathryn Cramer. It has a nice range of historical styles, and it will give you some sense of the breadth of the field.

Posted August 6, 2004 7:31 PM by Tom Whitmore

Another option is to skim the list here and see what jumps out at you.

Good luck.

Posted August 6, 2004 7:33 PM by Harry Connolly

Wow, there are recommendations here I've never heard of. But then I'm conservative with new authors, and I tend to buy for thickness (I can't stand paying 8 bucks for some thin thing I'll read in a half an hour, unless it's somebody I already know, like John Barnes -- but even Barnes has been trying my patience lately.)

If you like cyber stuff, you can't beat Vernor Vinge (especially Fire Upon the Deep) or Neal Stephenson (especially Snow Crash) and those will get you started. But it's a biiiiig genre. You can spend a lifetime on it. I certainly have.

I've been waiting for weeks for an open thread, so I could finally ask a question which has plagued me for years, but which occurred to me again last week after a particularly egregious example: "Who actually writes the text on the back of paperback books?" I just read Roma Eterna, by Silverberg, and happened to reread the back cover shortly before finishing the book. And as often is the case, it was written by someone who had obviously not read the book. So ... I don't get it. Why is that done? If someone actually buys the book because of the back text, aren't they going to be disappointed by the actual book?

So that's my question -- people around here should know if anyone does.

Posted August 6, 2004 7:41 PM by Michael

As clew is to skein... skew is to rhyme.

Which leads to off-rhyme: "A partial or imperfect rhyme, often using assonance or consonance only, as in dry and died or grown and moon. Also called half rhyme, near rhyme, oblique rhyme, slant rhyme."
[The American Heritage ® Dictionary of the English Language, Fourth Edition
Copyright © 2000 by Houghton Mifflin Company. Published by the Houghton Mifflin Company. All rights reserved.]

Switching hats from Professional Poet to Professional Mathematician:

As clew is to skein... skew is to Line.

Which leads to:

Skew Conic, Skew Coordinate System, Skew Diagonal, Skew Field, Skew Lines, Skew Polygon, Skew Polyomino, Skew Quadrilateral...

That's probably enough free association. We now return to your regular Open Thread.

But thanks to those on this blog who helped me realize that I really did need to renew my Yahoo 2GB account with a new credit card for $29.99 for a year, which my bank verifies that I did.

Any follow-up on the Making Light person who took Serzone, which I alerted was about to be withdrawn from USA market due to fatal liver damage side-effect? This blog can be a life-saver. Thank you again, Teresa!

Posted August 6, 2004 7:49 PM by Jonathan Vos Post

I too would like some recommendations! I used to read quite a bit of SF and fantasy as a teenager, and now that I've got some free time, I'd like to try picking it up again. But, I've had the hardest time finding something to my liking that I haven't read already.

I tend to like creative stories with strong female characters (especially if they're the protagonist) and simple writing. I tend not to like any books that have been written with the sole purpose of launching a series.

Examples of my likings are: Robin McKinley (early books only - Blue Sword, Hero & Crown, Beauty), Patricia Wrede (1st two books of her Dealing with Dragons series), Diana Wynne Jones (Howl's Moving Castle), and Anne McCaffrey (1st two books of the Dragonsinger series only).

Thanks for any help you can give!

Posted August 6, 2004 8:10 PM by jocy

>>rejection lowers your IQ.

Yes, and it lowers your objective self-awareness, too. Despite using more pronouns overall in a target sample, recently rejected writers use fewer first-person pronouns than writers who have been accepted. They are also more likely to focus on external details (eg, how long the rejection took to arrive), and less likely to offer congratulations to other writers.

So many good recommendations here. Can it count as not my one book if I second Diane Duane, Dianna Wynne Jones, Neil Gaiman, and Anne McCaffrey as wonderful? Because if it doesn't, I'll toss in a recommendation for Heinlein's _Double Star_. Definitely my favorite of his.

Posted August 6, 2004 8:59 PM by G. Jules

Philip Pullman, thirded (or fourthed by now). I also have a soft spot for Lloyd Alexander's Prydain books. Patricia McKillip's Riddlemaster trilogy. Neil Gaiman's Sandman series, his YA/juvenile books Coraline and Wolves in the Walls, Stardust, and Neverwhere. Connie Willis - Doomsday Book and Bellwether. Sherrie Tepper - Grass, Raising of the Stones. Hughart's Bridge of Birds was enchanting.

Posted August 6, 2004 9:04 PM by Lori

You know, the best part about this thread is that I can keep coming back here over and over again. Kewl.

Posted August 6, 2004 9:22 PM by Randall P.

... as needle to thread?

Randall, no one can recommend just one! So I won't.

Stefan Jones include "any short story collection by LeGuin," and I'll second that, with fudge topping. If you're wanting a narrower target, try The Wind's Twelve Quarters.

L.N. Hammer suggests The Forgotten Beasts of Eld; I will never miss an opportunity to push McKillip on people and that was the one on my mind when I initially read your comment. Reason being that, in that slim volume, whenever you think you know what's going to happen next, something completely unexpected happens, and that something is, from root to leaf, a much better idea.

Posted August 6, 2004 10:17 PM by pericat

People either love or hate Fionavar; it's much more polarizing than the rest of Kay's books so I wouldn't recommend it as a starting point.

Gabaldon has made the jump into "fiction." I wouldn't recommend them to someone looking for fantasy, though; whether or not they _are_ in the genre, they're not enough in the center of it to give one ideas about where to go from there.

_The Forgotten Beasts of Eld_ is a brilliant book, and the only McKillip novel I've read that I liked or understood. You may need to look in YA for it.

I'd vote for _A Deepness in the Sky_ for a Vinge over _Fire_ as a better book. I read more fantasy so my one book was in that genre, but if I had one SF book, I'd go with _Deepness_.

Posted August 6, 2004 10:53 PM by Kate Nepveu

Favourites in no particular order:

Last Call by Tim Powers
Use of Weapons by Iain M. Banks
Engine Summer by John Crowley
Little, Big by John Crowley
Winter's Tale by Mark Helprin
Diamond Age by Neal Stephenson
A Fire Upon the Deep by Vernor Vinge
Perdido Street Station by China Mieville
The Song of Mavin Manyshaped by Sheri S. Tepper
Dune by Frank Herbert

A couple of those might be hard to get hold of anymore. And I've not mentioned some books that are in the middle of a series and may only stand up in context.

I think the earlier advice to look at award winners is a good one, but you may still find stuff that doesn't agree with you there. There are quite a few genre awards out there. Don't be afraid to venture towards horror either. There's some good fantasy to be had under the heading of horror (Peter Straub's Ghost Story for instance).

And you may find that dipping your feet in short fiction first is a good idea. Buy some magazines and see if there are some writers who really catch your fancy.

Posted August 6, 2004 10:58 PM by Neil

jocy is looking for creative stories with strong female characters (especially if they're the protagonist) and simple writing.

Diane Duane's Young Wizards books (first is _So You Want to be a Wizard_). YA fantasy with a science-fictional feel about the fight against entropy.

Also in YA fantasy, Tamora Pierce's books. Her early ones show that she was working Extruded Fantasy Product tendencies out of her system, but all her books have kick-ass girls making their way in the world.

Lois McMaster Bujold's _Shards of Honor_ and _Barrayar_. SF about love, honor, and motherhood in times of war.

Also by Bujold, _The Curse of Chalion_ and _Paladin of Souls_. Fantasy loosely based on Spanish history; fascinating theology, tough women. The second has a female POV character.

Emma Bull's _War for the Oaks_. Urban fantasy. Non-twee elves, rock and roll, and Minneapolis.

Debra Doyle and James D. Macdonald's Mageworlds books, starting with _The Price of the Stars_. Rocking space opera with tons of good characters, fast action, and twists and turns.

Terry Pratchett is incapable of writing a weak woman. His Discworld books are humorous fantasy with a serious core. Try _Hogfather_, which features Death's granddaughter Susan. (I don't know if this counts as "simple" writing, though.)

I think that's enough to be starting with.

Posted August 6, 2004 11:04 PM by Kate Nepveu

Jocy -

It seems we have similar tastes! A few of the books already mentioned in this thread fit the bill. My preferences run toward the historical-ish, though, and a little less elf-and-fairy.

I first came to appreciate Guy Gavriel Kay through the book "A Song for Arbonne", which is full of strong women and heroic men. His "Lions of Al Rassan" also has at least one very intelligent and resourceful woman, and "Tigana" has a few. Those are all stories told in a single book. These are all historical/fantasy type books, with varying degrees of magic (I think "Tigana" has the most) but Kay never makes the magic feel like incredibly convenient Deus-ex-Machina (one of my fantasy pet-peeves).

If you decide you want to try a series, George R.R. Martin's one that is also chock-full of strong, wicked, heroic, intelligent, villainous, terrifically multi-faceted characters of both genders. There is some magic, and eventually, dragons, all of which is believable. I had sworn off series fantasy until picking up his "Game of Thrones", based partially on a reccomendation and the bigness of the book. The only drawback is that I'm waiting very impatiently for the next book in the series. Thus far it doesn't have that cheap, tossed-off franchise feel to it.

One that hasn't been mentioned yet is a two-book set by Jo Walton; "The King's Peace" and "The King's Name". The protagonist is a woman, and when I read it, I pictures "Aeryn Sun" playing the role of Sulien(although if you're not familiar with Farscape, this will mean less than nothing!). This story uses the Roman underpinnings of the Arthur legends as a starting point, and you may find it hard to put the books down once you've started.

None of the authors mentioned above do anything "fancy" with their writing - they create sympathetic and believable characters and interesting settings, and let the stories tell themselves.

All of these books should be widely available at bookstores and libraries, so you can sit down, read a few chapters, and say "Wow, I must buy/check out these awesome books!" or "Gee, does that nerdycellist have some pretty crappy taste!"

Posted August 6, 2004 11:14 PM by nerdycellist

Kate Nepveu summarizes:
"jocy is looking for creative stories with strong female characters (especially if they're the protagonist) and simple writing."

Well, then, I suggest that you look at the list of Feminist and Amazon Science Fiction at:

http://www.magicdragon.com/UltimateSF/thisthat.html#feminist

It will take a while to load, as it's my "If You Like This, You'll Like That" listing of Science Fiction and Fantasy by genre. That in turn is part of my award-winning "The Ultimate Science Fiction Web Guide," which helps my domain rate #3 in the world for "science fiction" according to Google.

I could not offer help from the original question, as I have too many favorite books...

On another topic, there was a great quotation in today's New York Times (which I get, ven though I live in Greater Los Angeles):

"The Pressure may be getting to Mr.Bush. He came up with a gem of a Freudian slip yesterday. At a signing ceremony for a $417 billion military spending bill, the president said" 'Our enemies are innovative and resourceful, and so are we. They never stop thinking about new ways to harm our country and our people, and neither do we.'"
["Failure of Leadership", Bob Herbert, The New York Times, 6 Aug 2004, p.A23]

Posted August 6, 2004 11:19 PM by Jonathan Vos Post

The problem with Xanth is that the author, bless his soul, seems to have gotten bored with it after the first six or eight books, but was under contract and kept writing them anyway. That's why I so seldom read series SFF any more: I'd rather read one good standalone novel or trilogy than a series that goes on... and on... and on... long past the point where the author ought to have downed keyboard and gone off to do something he or she would actually have fun at.

That's one thing I appreciate about Terry Pratchett: he's thirty-something books along and still seems to be having fun with 'em.

Posted August 6, 2004 11:37 PM by Thena

Strong female character-wise, how about Joan Aiken? The Wolves Chronicles are set in a 19th century that isn't quite our 19th century. Dido Twite outwits the very persistent Hanovarians, who want Bonnie Prince Charlie on the throne in England. (James III is occupying that space as the series starts.) Dido's father is a Hanovarian...

Aiken has an extraordinary feel for dialect. Dido's father plays a "hoboy," and it was years before I found an unabridged dictionary that had the word in it. I was very embarrassed for not guessing when I found out.

Posted August 6, 2004 11:41 PM by Andy Perrin

Just one book? Just one? Sheesh...

Lots of good stuff has been mentioned, but I'll throw in Vonda McIntyre's DREAMSNAKE, which bit me hard when it (and I) were new. Also LeGuin's LEFT HAND OF DARKNESS. For fantasy, Jo Walton's TOOTH AND CLAW, which takes two things--dragons and the Victorian comic novel--and mixes with delirious results.

One should read DUNE for the accomplishment it is, although the writing itself makes my teeth itch. Same for much of Robert Heinlein's work, which I love (although his writing reminds me of Sinclair Lewis's in every way except the politics).

Oh, and THE STONE CANAL and THE CASSINI DIVISION, by Ken MacLeod. I should probably stop now.

Posted August 6, 2004 11:58 PM by Madeleine Robins

Books.... if you enjoy Fantasy....

My most favorite (I read one to pieces and read the other so much that I had to replace it (it was Jim's copy). The first time I read War for the Oaks I read it so fast I was literally breathless.

Robin McKinley, Beauty

Emma Bull, War for the Oaks

There are numerous books, including The Stars My Destination, that I could suggest that others have. My introduction to SF, as a pre-adolescent, was Alexander Key's Forgotten Door, and then a lot of Andre Norton and Edgar Rice Burroughs (Scholastic Books had the Nortons, the local Crown Drugstore, where I bicycled to at least once a week with my allowance to buy books, carried the Ballentine reissue of Tarzan of the Apes, etc.)

Posted August 7, 2004 12:18 AM by Paula Helm Murray

I'll add another vote for Bujold's Vorkosigan books, which have the most compelling moral vision of any SF I've ever read, and for Le Guin's Earthsea series. Frank Herbert and George R.R. Martin too, but only their short stories.

A few that nobody has mentioned yet: Samuel Delany's Dhalgren (which I've read six times), Octavia Butler's Parable of the Sower and Parable of the Talents, and nearly anything by Avram Davidson.

Posted August 7, 2004 12:26 AM by Jonathan Edelstein

can't do one recommendation--not possible, but #1 would be Peter Beagle's The Folk of the Air-- good again and again
--a second for Emma Bull's War for the Oaks as well as her Bone Dance and also recommend Diana Paxson's The White Raven
--Bordertown by Terri Windling is a joy
--absolutely second McKinley's the Blue Sword and the Hero and the Crown (multiple reading pleasure for those of us who re-read, great female protagonists--and the guys are good too.)
--and ya gotta read Callahan's Crosstime Saloon by Spider Robinson, and all the sequels. He writes lots of good stuff, but these will make you weep with laughter.
I'm gonna stop now...just take my fingers off the keyboard and tiptoe away. Won't even think about all the books I haven't mentioned, won't lie awake thinking about them....

Posted August 7, 2004 12:28 AM by in medias res

JVP, have you heard the definition of a Freudian Slip? It's when you say one thing but you mean your mother.

---------

Can I say how much I loved Martin's A Game of Thrones and its sequels? The opening of the first book did not seem particularly promising, but the books have made me an addict. Love 'em.

Posted August 7, 2004 12:58 AM by Harry Connolly

...Alexander Key's Forgotten Door...

I had a devil of a time tracking down his "Escape to Witch Mountain." ETWM is even better than the Disney movie of the same name, and the movie was excellent.

*remembers scene in police station with whirling broom*

Posted August 7, 2004 1:05 AM by Andy Perrin

Harry - You're saying I should have given A Game of Thrones more than 150pp before giving up on it? Could I jump to the second book without getting lost?

Of course, that would be reconsidering one of my Snap Judgements™.

Posted August 7, 2004 1:12 AM by Larry Brennan

Oh, what the hell.

I'm reading a book by Louise Marley that I really like, THE CHILD GODDESS -- which sounds like a fantasy title, but it's science fiction and extremely engrossing. I could read it even before the dentist made my tooth stop hurting.

One of my desert island books is DANGEROUS VISIONS edited by Harlan Ellison. Other favorite anthologies include the Starlight books, edited by someone not a million miles away.

Robin McKinley's book SUNSHINE just won the Mythopoeic Fantasy Award for adult literature and I like it a lot. It has vampires, but, well, they're not what you think. Or at least some of them aren't. And a really wonderful heroine who is a baker.

Jo Walton's book TOOTH AND CLAW has just been nominated for a World Fantasy Award and is quite enjoyable.

As for classics, other than the above mentioned DV, hmm. DUNE by Herbert, but stop there; do not on any account read the sequels. LeGuin's Earthsea Trilogy.

I like Alan Dean Foster for lighthearted fluff -- the Pip and Flinx books.

The heck with choosing between them read both the Vinge books: A FIRE UPON THE DEEP and A DEEPNESS IN THE SKY. The first is my favorite, but both are excellent.

I could go on meandering around like this for hours, so I'd better stop now.

Posted August 7, 2004 1:16 AM by Mary Kay

As clew is to skein…

so key is to lock.

Or if you're talking knitting I'm out of luck because I don't whether you make a skein from a clew or vice versa.

MKK--does know how to use the OED online though

Posted August 7, 2004 1:20 AM by Mary Kay

Lots and lots of good recommendations above, but if I only get to recommend one, I will go with Steve Brust. Start with your choice of Taltos or Jhereg. Because smart-mouthed main characters are loads of fun.

But if I didn't recommend Steve's stuff, I'd recommend the Vorkosigan books. Because smart-mouthed main characters are loads of fun.

Posted August 7, 2004 1:28 AM by Tina

Wow! Those spice pages are so cool! I went first to basil, one of my favorite herbs -- I just made pesto with my very own. And did you notice that in that long list of various languages terms for it there's Quenya? I haven't seen it on any of the others, but there it is on basil!

MKK

Posted August 7, 2004 1:41 AM by Mary Kay

jocy is looking for creative stories with strong female characters (especially if they're the protagonist) and simple writing

simple writing in the sense of manageable for, say, 3rd graders who are reading at 9th grade level but don't quite get more complicated social situations?

simple writing in the sense of short words and sentences?

simple writing in the sense of interesting to adult readers who are essayiing a new language?

Robin McKinley's Blue Sword and The Hero and the Crown are suitable for all three; I am fond of Monica Furlong's Wise Child and Juniper; I enjoy all of Diana Wynne Jones' work; I had forgotten about Joan Aiken but very well done; LeGuin's EarthSea Trilogy has now added two more books, Tehanu and The Other Wind, plus a book of short stories set in Earthsea. (I personally loved both Tehanu and TOW, but you may not. They are from a different, older, less idealistic writer than the first 3 in the cycle).

The advanced child reader has a hard go between about 3rd grade and 6th (or 8 and late 10ish) as the more difficult but more rewarding novels become more personally available.

Oh, speaking of oldies, don't forget the Wizard of Oz in all 4 squillion versions. I distinctly remember being enchanted in about 3rd grade, and was thrilled that, having finished WoO, there were MORE.

Posted August 7, 2004 2:10 AM by liz

Xopher: Much as I hate Piers Anthony, I have to say that Crewel Lye, a Caustic Yarn is the best English-language pun I've ever heard.

I'm not alone! I'm not alone! My sister claims it was her first adult fantasy novel--I was reading Piers Anthony devotedly at the time, while in middle school--and it launched her further into sf/f, muhahahaha.

Randall, if it must be just one--I haven't read the sequels yet (it's a trilogy, I believe?), but John Wright's The Golden Age is fairly recent sf. The characterization is a bit thin in spots, but I adored it for the sheer density of ideas in a, hmm, vividly imagined posthuman? future. It takes Phaethon/Apollo and injects it with skiffy stuff; I hadn't been so dazzled/boggled since Olaf Stapledon. That being said, if the first couple chapters turn you off, you may as well stop there, and try another of the very very good list of suggestions already here. :-)

Posted August 7, 2004 2:17 AM by Yoon Ha Lee

For easy, fast, delicious, girl-centered reading, I suggest Garth Nix's YA trilogy (The Old Kingdom Trilogy? I forget the series name, but the volumes' titles are Sabriel, Lirael, and Abhorsen). I loved these books, though the first is the strongest of them and can stand alone.

George R.R. Martin's Song of Ice and Fire tops my current list of fantasy recommendations. Martin junkies who need a good second-best to read while filling the time until his 4th volume comes out might want to look at Kate Elliott's Crown of Stars series. If you crave a multivolume doorstopper fantasy epic, she can provide, and she has some particular delights of her own to offer.

Tigana's a great favorite of mine. My only caveat is, gay readers need to be promised that the gay character whose dignity is so badly compromised early on in the book will be recognized for his heroism not long after. Having forgotten how much that character endures before he gets some respect, I recommended Tigana to a gay male friend, and after my friend had thrown my copy of Tigana across the room a few times, he emailed me to give me what for, for not having warned him. And well he should have.

Maybe this is a stretch, but I'd list Italo Calvino as one of my favorite fantasy authors, and Invisible Cities as one of my favorite fantasy novels. Actually, now that I look at that sentence on the screen, it's a stretch in several dimensions. I'm going to leave it there anyway.

Posted August 7, 2004 3:34 AM by Sarah Avery

Calvino was a fantasist by any plausible definition of the term, as was Borges. The fact that not -everything- they wrote was absolutely, categorically fantastical is irrelevant; no one disqualifies Poul Anderson as a fantasist because he wrote TAU ZERO as well as THE BROKEN SWORD.

And now that I'm thinking about it, if I really, absolutely had to suggest one and only one "fantasy" book, it would be the collection of all of Borges's short fiction. It's a ridiculous bargain at $18 in paper (Penguin), and still a bargain at $40 in hardcover (Viking).

Posted August 7, 2004 4:00 AM by John M. Ford

McKillip's FORGOTTEN BEASTS OF ELD, the first book to win the World Fantasy Award, was also the first book I reprinted when I began the YA Magic Carpet Books line for Harcourt. It is still in print there.

Jane

Posted August 7, 2004 5:38 AM by jane

This lurker really appreciates all the recommendations. I stopped with Tolkein and Herbert (Dune only) back in 1975, so I have a LOT of catching up to do! Thanks to all.

Posted August 7, 2004 7:36 AM by Mark D.

Wow. LOTS of good recommendations. These are for Randall P, from way up top.

I apologize, Randall, in advance. I find I need to make two, not one, recommendations because of the clear delineation of one as science fiction, the other as (primarily) fantasy.

First is the Mars series (Red Mars, Green Mars, and Blue Mars) by Kim Stanley Robinson. Very definitely "hard" science fiction; that is, grounded in (real-world or projected) science and the possibilities it presents, but also with some fascinating characters, drama, and the other elements of terrific fiction. But very dense; I found myself concentrating hard when the science came along, getting a good picture of it.

On the other hand (mostly) is Robert A. Heinlein's Glory Road. It's a classic of the genre, with everything from swordfights to dragons. With a twist; I'm sure this isn't the first book to make its twist, but it's one of the best (without giving away the particular spin, can anyone name major works that incorporate it prior to GR? I'm at work, and more than a bit tired).

Posted August 7, 2004 8:31 AM by Bruce Adelsohn

Randall, I am not much of a sci-fi or fantasy person. Just today I had a Phillip K. Dick book in my hand while browsing a bookstore and dropped it for an Oe novel. I do however have one suggestion for the sci-fi realm. Look for anything by Boris and Arkady Strugatsky. Their books are a bit hard to find, and some Russian friends have looked askew at some of the translating but they are the only sci-fi authors I have bought, read and enjoyed in the past 7 or 8 years.

Would that last statement be fair if I said the only other sci-fi book I've bought during that time is Solaris which I still have not gotten around to reading yet? I have to get thru A-K on my bookshelves first, and that is rather distracting.

Posted August 7, 2004 8:35 AM by Greg H

Another good Sheri S. Tepper: Beauty. (Another book with a strong female character.)

Posted August 7, 2004 8:35 AM by Amanda Coppedge

Stories with strong female characters, and at least moderately easy to read: stories of the People by Zenna Henderson. Holding Wonder, Pilgrimage, and Ingathering are the books (short story collections) I know of; I've got the first two, but the last is a complete collection, and may be easiest to obtain. A better read for 7/8th graders than 4/5th, but not impossible for advanced younger readers.

Posted August 7, 2004 8:45 AM by Bruce Adelsohn

Jocy:

I'll second a lot of the recommendations here (McKillip may be too artsy for your taste -- hard to tell! -- but Pierce is an author that falls exactly into your criteria), but also need to mention a couple of classics:

E. Nesbit (amazingly strong women for when she was writing, acceptably strong women for current times)

Edward Eager (who wanted to be E. Nesbit when he grew up)

Note From A Great Deal of Experience: it's really important to listen to what someone already likes when recommending books. I'll recommend Piers Anthony to someone who likes Robert Jordan -- I'll be very chary of recommending Anthony to someone who likes Samuel R. Delany (e.g., I'll say _Macroscope_ may have some bits you'll like). There are several recommendations that have been made here that I'd very much disagree with for the person who asked for the recommendation.

And if I keep recommending books that they've already read and liked, I know I'm on the right track.

Posted August 7, 2004 11:46 AM by Tom Whitmore

I'm surprised no one recommended Tolkien!

Some other suggestions:

Le Guin - The Disposessed
Wright - Islandia
Gorodischer - Kalpa Imperial (translated by Le Guin)
Mirlees - Lud-in-the-Mist
Finney - Time and Again
McHugh - China Mountain Zhang

But I agree with the advice above--pick up an anthology of award-winning short stories, and track down books by the authors whose stories you liked best.

Posted August 7, 2004 12:14 PM by Deborah Roggie

Yoon Ha Lee:

I must praise your wonderful story "The Black Abacus" [The Magazine of Fantasy & Science Fiction, June 2002, pages 90-100].

If someone wants memorable female protagonists, this is a must. The brilliantly evocative opening sentence:

"In space there are no seasons, and this is true too of the silver wheels that are humanity's homes beyond Earth and the silver ships that carried us there."

Each line thereafter is similarly honed to a cutting edge, poetic and yet inarguably Hard Science Fiction about Quantum Computing as war. The protagonist, Rachel Kilterhawk, a.k.a The Hawk, a.k.a. Rachel the Ruthless, is great and terrible and heartbreaking. The antagonist, Edgar Kerzen, exists for the story, in love with and opposition to Rachel, and yet fleshed out by implications.

This tale is stripped to the bone, and has a more interesting background sketched than many novels.

Well done indeed, Yoon Ha Lee! Will we see more of this amazing multiverse?

Posted August 7, 2004 12:31 PM by Jonathan Vos Post

Larry, I'm not sure you should reconsider your Snap Judgement (tm). I only read 50 pages before I decide whether or not to continue (but I'm a tolerant reader).

Maybe we just have different tastes, but Martin's books kept me awake at night, worrying about the characters. That's kinda embarrassing to admit, but there you go.

Posted August 7, 2004 4:27 PM by Harry Connolly

My most recommended (unforgettable) genre books:

Two good ones, only peripherally s-f or fantasy:

Replay by Ken Grimwood

Set This House in Order by Matt Ruff

I'm not sure whether I'm going to continue to think the Matt Ruff book is great; but it passed the "cannot put down until last page" requirement for me, several months ago.

If you want to adjust the filter control to "great writing" and turn down the "enjoyable" notch a bit:

The Book of the New Sun by Gene Wolfe
and selected subsequent Sun novels.

(I'm not sure whether "Return to the Whorl" can be properly appreciated without reading some of the others in between.)

If you want to ratchet up the "science fiction" filter, I'd pick both Vernor Vinge "Zones of Thought" novels: "A Fire Upon the Deep" and "A Deepness in the Sky."

Posted August 7, 2004 5:00 PM by Lenny Bailes

'rejection lowers your IQ'
okay, it is my understanding that people with "asperger's" have higher IQs than the norm, yet they do not interract well socially with others, how could this be explained?
Mayber this is one of those studies that will turn out to have been poorly thought out and it will never be heard of again except for in the water cooler conversations of people who will imbide its conclusions as scientifically valid.
Maybe rejection lowers IQs in the normal population, but does not effect special populations, thus one could think of asperger's as a way of handling rejection. a mutation!!

Posted August 7, 2004 5:01 PM by bryan

I should clarify that I have not actually read Crewel Lye, a Caustic Yarn. I stopped reading Anthony after Race Against Time, another pun-titled book (hint). I was referring to the title as a truly excellent pun, but I didn't go any further.

Posted August 7, 2004 5:17 PM by Xopher

At ConJose, the two paradigmatic conversations that I heard again and again were:

(1) I'm starting my 4th [5th, 6th, whatever] internet company. It will not change the world. It's just a company to support my lifestyle...

(2) My son/daughter has Asperger's, I'm in this support group, and what is going on with this epidemic that the government denies?

On the topic of puns in Science Fiction: I never knew anyone more delighted with this than Isaac Asimov. He was known to buy even a weak story (such as mine) if he liked the puns in it.

See also: "Feghoot"

Posted August 7, 2004 5:35 PM by Jonathan Vos Post

Bryan:

I'm willing to believe that rejection lowers your IQ. At least, I'm sure it lowers mine -- pushing the emotional part of the brain to charge forward without the conceptual moderators supplied by the analytical part.

Posted August 7, 2004 5:47 PM by Lenny Bailes

Ok, Randall, here's what we have so far.

Randall's Reading List

Posted August 7, 2004 5:50 PM by Andy Perrin

Bruce A: _Holding Wonder_ and _The Anything Box_ are not People stories. _Ingathering_ is the complete collection of the People stories, including one never published, for good reason, as far as I can see.

Jocy, I think you might like Melissa Scott's books. They frequently have strong female protagonists and are easy reads.

Posted August 7, 2004 6:51 PM by Marilee

Also, for YA strong female characters: Richard Peck's Blossom Culp books, and Wilanne Schneider Belden's Mind-Call, Mind-Hold, and Mind-Find.

Posted August 7, 2004 7:05 PM by Andy Perrin

Randall: Neil Gaiman also has a short story anthology, which is wonderfully varied. Just so you know, my husband (definitely not a sff fan) read _Neverwhere_ at my insistence and his response was "That's not fantasy!"

You might also check out Charles de Lint, if you like urban fantasy based in North America. Actually, come to think of it, C dL has lots of good female leads, and writes both short stories and novels. I prefer his novels; others like the stories. Most are set in the fictional city of Newford, where strange things happen to good people, mythical beings walk the streets more or less invisibly, and worlds intersect. Most of the characters are some type of artist, mostly visual or musical.

I second (or third or fourth or whatever it's up to now) the recommendation of _Tigana_ and anything by Guy Gavriel Kay (although I haven't read his latest yet). Also Stephen Brust. I love his Phoenix Guards series, but they are very stylized and require both a good sense of humor and a generous measure of patience.

I'm glad to know I'm not alone in my dislike for George R.R. Martin (totally unengaging--I'm not sure I made it to 150 pages) or _Snow Crash_.

Whatever floats your boat.

Posted August 7, 2004 8:06 PM by Elisabeth

I get asked this often enough that I put up a page of my favorites.

Randall, based on what you've said about your tastes, my "one book" recommendation is The Anubis Gates by Tim Powers. It's a thousand-watt humdinger.

Larry:

You're saying I should have given A Game of Thrones more than 150pp before giving up on it? Could I jump to the second book without getting lost?

For what it's worth, I gave up on the series after finishing the second book. I just got tired of it.

Posted August 7, 2004 8:24 PM by Tim Walters

"Neil Gaiman also has a short story anthology, which is wonderfully varied."

To be precise (and maybe a bit picky), ANGELS & VISITATIONS is a collection; an anthology is a set of stories by multiple authors, like, to pick an example entirely at random, the STARLIGHT series. But yeah, it's a great book. (The Sandman-themed anthology is SANDMAN: BOOK OF DREAMS, about which it would be improper for me to say more.)

Posted August 7, 2004 8:34 PM by John M. Ford

Taking a different tack:
A Writer For People Who Like Alan Moore:

Kim Newman - "Anno Dracula" - what if Dracula had won? And then every vampire in the world moved to England?
From Hell meets League of Extraordinary Gentlemen, written well before the latter was thought of. Fu Manchu and Moriarty *team up* in this one.

A Writer For People Who Like Warren Ellis:
Michael Marshall Smith - "Only Forward" - In the future people live in Neighborhoods, each themed in accordance with specific interests. Stark lives in Colour, a Neighborhood for people who are really into colour. Stark solves problems, but he's not a detective. He just fixes stuff. But on his latest assignment, his past is coming back to break him.

Posted August 7, 2004 8:34 PM by Greg G

Hmm.

I second much of what has been sad above.

Further:
"Scissors Cut Paper Wrap Stone" - Ian McDonald (Cyberpunk)

Brust, though I'd suggest reading the Taltos-Draegaera books before the Paarfi-Draegaera books (as the Paarfi's can be quite confusing if one has no previous introduction to what the hell is going on).

Peter F. Hamilton's Night's Dawn books: Reality Dysfunction, Neutronium Alchemist, Naked God. What I call "Firm" SF.

Phillip K. Dick: Near anything, though I'm especially fond of UBIK.

Asimov: Again, near anything, but I'm especially fond of I, Robot and the Robots of Dawn.

Terry Pratchett: Discworld, which is parody that later becomes satire and is only getting better as time goes on.

There's more, but I'm a gnat here.

Posted August 7, 2004 8:40 PM by BSD

At MiniCon there was some discussion of the Asperger's/IQ link in the context of a panel on fandom and Asperger's. The panelists all agreed that the studies they had read indicated no link between Asperger's and high IQ, although one panelist said she would anecdotally say there was such a link. (I don't know how much of that was self-selection, though.)

I think we all know that the IQ test is not the be-all and end-all of intelligence in the first place, but I wonder if it isn't even worse at measuring the intelligence of people who are non-neurotypical in that particular way. I can easily imagine someone with Asperger's testing either much higher or much lower than their functional capabilities depending on their interests, who was giving the test, the setting, and so on.

Posted August 7, 2004 8:44 PM by Mris

Holy Crap!! Andy, you rule. I was sitting here, silently thinking, "Geez, I'm never going to be able to sort through this stuff!" Lo and behold, the Great Andy Perrin has compiled a list for me.

Moohoohaha!! To the library on Tuesday!

Thanks to all, by the way. This is why I keep coming to this website day after day.

Posted August 7, 2004 8:58 PM by Randall P.

By the way, does this mean that I have to provide reports on all of these? And if I do, would that qualify for some higher education degree? Just wondering. I was thinking of getting a Master's...

Posted August 7, 2004 8:59 PM by Randall P.