OK couldn't resist the temptation of the first post.
The name of a mysterious saviour of Poland prophesied in Adam Mickiewicz's drama Dziady?

Posted June 29, 2005 8:49 AM by Steingrim

Is this to celebrate the start of Empire? I've gotta say that it's interesting to see a miniseries that starts on the day before the Ides of March, 44BC... and I liked Colm Feore in the role.

As far as the rest goes... it remains to be seen, as it doesn't really draw me in (damn, Octavius is an annoying whiner) but it looks to have potential if they can avoid getting too "formula".

Posted June 29, 2005 8:50 AM by Anton P. Nym (aka Steve)

I was thinking yesterday about a reference book that I wish existed.

Does anyone know of a good history general reference book or series of books that is sorted by timeline? All my history reference books that include timelines are segregated by topic or continent. I'd love to have a book that would let me put roman emperors in the context of chinese art movements, and inventions in the context of political movements. The actual history described in the book wouldn't have to be extensive, just notes to important names, wars, inventions arranged solely by time, as an aid to reference.

I have no idea if this book exists, but I figured if it did someone here would know about it.

Posted June 29, 2005 9:01 AM by Leah Miller

This is sad news:

http://www.boston.com/news/globe/health_science/articles/2005/06/28/lights_out/

Harvard's Oak Ridge Observatory is going to be shut down. (You'll never guess why.)

Posted June 29, 2005 9:07 AM by John Farrell

About "Empire"... Is it my imagination or was the gladiator fight held in a rather dinky arena? I mean, it looked the size of my living-room. Sure, it's a TV production, but they did use computer models elsewhere in the show.

And did anybody recognize the actor playing Tyrannus, bodyguard of the really annoying Octavius?

Posted June 29, 2005 9:13 AM by Serge

As it hasn't been mentioned here yet, there's an interesting development in the "eminent domain" decision from the US Supreme Court: a real estate developer has set forward a proposal to expropriate Justice Souter's home and build a hotel on the property.

Here's an interview with the developer, Logan Darrow Clements, aired last night on CBC Radio One. (RealAudio needed to hear it, it's 8:48 into the "part 2" link.)

Listener discretion advised: some scenes contain references to Ayn Rand.

(Oh, and another item on that half is a tribute to the fall of the Ashcroft Curtain in the DoJ building. Lovely music. *gag*)

Posted June 29, 2005 9:17 AM by Anton P. Nym (aka Steve)

Other sad news: Shelby Foote, Civil War historian, has passed away.

Posted June 29, 2005 9:34 AM by Janet Croft

I'm now using exciting Firefox in Debian 9, this entire upgrade done exclusively so that Making Light will work right.

It works much better.

However, when I want to go to the end of a thread to see new posts, if I press page-down a lot or if I use the mouse on the bar, it still takes me to a page of ads instead of to where I want to be. It no longer crashes the computer when it does it, which is an improvement, but is there some way of avoiding this?

Posted June 29, 2005 9:38 AM by Jo Walton

44+44=88

That's the number on Buckaroo Banzai's Jet Car.

Posted June 29, 2005 9:46 AM by Josh Jasper

Leah: When I asked the same question, the recommendations I got were:

The current popular favorite is probably The Timetables of History: A Horizontal Linkage of Peoples and Events by Bernard Grun, 1975. Timelines of World History gets cited occasionally, it's even thinner on detail, but more visual, centering around pretty pictures and some maps. The old standard is An Encyclopedia of World History by William Langer 1940, this is itself an update of Epitome of History by Karl Ploetz, translated by William Tillinghast 1883, and it got an update in 2001 (by Peter Stearns), though I haven't seen that version.

I recommend James Trager's The People's Chronology, which is showing its age, but is remarkably complete and more up on social and artistic history than the standard "kings, battles, inventors" model in Grun or Langer.

Posted June 29, 2005 10:03 AM by cd

Leah Miller -- the only book I know organized like you want, is Larry Gonick's "The Cartoon History of the Universe" -- it is however not exactly a reference book, and I don't believe it is indexed either. Good tho.

Posted June 29, 2005 10:05 AM by Jeremy Osner

Does anybody know when the trade paperback of Stephenson's "The System of the World" will be out? I've already got the trade of "Quicksilver" and "The Confusion" on my shelves, but I want the whole thing before I start reading it. And no, I won't get the hardcover, not being too keen on getting a hernia lugging it around.

Posted June 29, 2005 10:10 AM by Serge

Because this is an open thread, a question of pronunciation . . . .

Last night, I went to the ballet and saw a very strong performance by a woman named

Xiomara Reyes

Reyes I can pronounce, but Xiomara? I want to use the Chinese "X" sound, like in Xian, but I'm not sure that's right.

Advice?

Posted June 29, 2005 10:13 AM by Melissa Singer

We also have the People's Chronology (mentioned above), which is pretty good, as well as the New York Public Library Book of Chronologies. The latter isn't quite side by side -- making one wish for a good relational database file of the info... sigh.

Posted June 29, 2005 10:30 AM by Steve Miller

I would go either with a scottish-style "ch" sound, or a sound slightly harsher than the usual English "h". No idea if either's right, but at least it's actually pronounceable, unlike most of the alternatives.

Posted June 29, 2005 10:30 AM by Jules

Regarding "Destroying workplace productivity in even cooler ways," I can actually see where I parked my van.

Posted June 29, 2005 10:35 AM by Bill Higgins-- Beam Jockey

Xiomara Reyes

Assuming from the last name that she's Hispanic, it should be an 'h' sound, as in 'Mexico.'

--Mary Aileen

Posted June 29, 2005 10:37 AM by Mary Aileen Buss

In response to the "problem with google ads" sidelight, I'll point people at this, which I found on a site previously linked here.

I've also frequently seen adverts for vanity presses on pages discussing how authors can avoid vanity presses.

Posted June 29, 2005 10:42 AM by Jules

Re: Shelby Foote's death, the Kincaid-Speller household is not surprisingly in mourning. The first books on the American Civil War that Paul Kincaid ever owned were the component parts of Shelby Foote's Civil War Trilogy, after seeing Foote on Ken Burns' series on the war. He totally stole that series. He will be much missed.

Posted June 29, 2005 10:44 AM by Maureen Kincaid Speller

Serge: Amazon gives the US release of the paperback as September 1, and the UK one a month or so later (with a nicer cover). So if you're not too fast a reader, start now - you've a month a book before #3 turns up!

(I acquired a proof copy of the book in a charity shop, which I really must offload and replace - all the downsides of a paperback combined with the sheer bulk of a hardback...)

Posted June 29, 2005 11:02 AM by Andrew Gray

Thanks, Andrew, about "The System of the World". I had looked for that info on Amazon but couldn't find anything. Must have been updated recently.

I guess I could start "Quicksilver" now, but first I have to read Lindsey Davis's "Scandal Takes a Holiday". My wife picked it up in London on a recent trip. (I'd have waited for its paperback American edition, but I understand that the publisher on this side of the pond dropped Davis.)

Posted June 29, 2005 11:17 AM by Serge

Melissa: A rough "h" sound like the Spanish J is probably most appropriate, but the "sh"-like of the Chinese X is not out of place, and is certainly easier to pronounce. It's what I'd be likely to use.

Posted June 29, 2005 11:36 AM by Chris Quinones

Harvard's Oak Ridge Observatory is going to be shut down. (You'll never guess why.)

Got it in one.

And speaking of Ayn Rand and property: in her dream universe, if I bought one square inch in the center every block surrounding a city, count I then demand millions whenever the city wanted to grow and needed to put something in that block?

Posted June 29, 2005 11:38 AM by Avery

this guy makes Philip Larkin look like Pollyanna

Men we once honored share a crooked eye.
We can do nothing more than mourn.
The girls we loved will marry them, and die. —“Five Villanelles.”

“—Your face is never clear. You always stand
In charcoal doorways in the dark. Part ofyour face
Is gone. You say, ‘Just to be through with this damned world.
Contagious fogs blow in. Christ, we could die
The way deer sometimes do, their antlers locked,
Rotting in snow.’ —“Girl at Midnight.”

Only a suburban house with the front door open
And a dog barking at a squirrel, and the cars
Passing. The corpse quite dead. The wife in Florida. —“Crime Club.”

Robinson afraid, drunk, sobbing Robinson
In bed with a Mrs. Morse. Robinson at home;
Decisions: Toynbee or luminol? Where the sun
Shines, Robinson in flowered trunks, eyes toward
The breakers. Where the night ends, Robinson in East Side bars.
Robinson in Glen plaid jacket, Scotch-grain shoes,
Black four-in-hand and oxford button-down,
The jeweled and silent watch that winds itself, the brief-
Case, covert topcoat, clothes for spring, all covering
His sad and usual heart, dry as a winter leaf.

The pages in the books are blank,
The books that Robinson has read.
That is his favorite chair,
Or where the chair would be if Robinson were here.
All day the phone rings. It could be Robinson
Calling. It never rings when he is here.

Posted June 29, 2005 11:39 AM by julia

Woe, Shelby Foote is dead: not an impartial historian, but a great storyteller, with a voice like very well educated sorghum poured out upon grits. I own the unabridged audio version of him reading The Stars in Their Courses, and would happily have listened to him read the complete trilogy on tape, if he'd ever recorded it.

Leah, The Timetables of History is the one I'd go for.

Jo, there's something buggy about the ads. I'm getting a different set of odd behaviors out of Firefox. It seems to correlate with having a message turn up about the browser having reached the bottom of the page and gone back up to the top.

If you get an otherwise blank page with ad info, hit the "stop loading" icon, then the back arrow.

Melissa, re Xiomara Reyes: Is that a Mexican initial "X", as in "Xochimilco"? I can pronounce it, but not spell how it's pronounced. The initial sound is kind of throaty or glottal-stopped, like the "ch" in "Chanukah", only it's an "s" with "z" tendencies instead of a "ch". In a pinch, treating it as an "s" will do, as in Taxco, pronounced (approximately) "Tahsco."

Suddenly, the answer occurs to me: I walk down the hall to Melissa's office and demonstrate that sound, or anyway the best version of it I can manage.

The rest of you are on your own.

Next week on It's the Consonants, we'll be discussing Spanish pronunciation in general. Our guests will include a Mexican, a Dominicano, a Castilian, a couple of Argentines, and a Loisaida loca, all of whom will be armed with potato guns. Victors will go on to the semifinals, where they'll be issued super-soaker water guns for their discussion of singular and plural second-person pronouns.

Posted June 29, 2005 12:08 PM by Teresa Nielsen Hayden

Re: the Disney/Narnia particle, I share Morford's trepidation, but it would be nice if he could have gotten his facts straight. Many of the children's books he thinks are yet untouched by the corrupting influence of Hollywood aren't: Wrinkle in Time was made into a movie by Disney a year or so ago; Charlotte's Web was an animated musical in the 70s; The Phantom Tollbooth was also animated in the 70s (Rankin-Bass, I think). And for my money, Willy Wonka and the Chocolate Factory, while it has the eternally lovable Gene WIlder, bears very little resemblance to Charlie and the Chocolate Factory starting with the title.

Meanwhile, I'm reeling at the notion of Hilary Duff as the White Witch. Yoicks.

Posted June 29, 2005 12:09 PM by Madeleine Robins

Xiomara Reyes

If she's from farther down in Central America it's an 'sh' sound. Juan Xaxo is Juan Shaysho.

(Which is why we used to refer to the copy machine as the "Sherosh.")

Posted June 29, 2005 12:11 PM by James D. Macdonald

Julia, that's stunning.

Posted June 29, 2005 12:12 PM by Teresa Nielsen Hayden

It's probably just me but when I saw the post title, in my head was Ben Stein's voice repeating 44, ala Bueller, Bueller, Bueller...

Posted June 29, 2005 12:18 PM by Steve Thorn

44

Posted June 29, 2005 12:19 PM by TomB

cd, Leah Miller, Teresa:

TIMELINE
Because I wanted such a book, I wrote my own, vaster in content than any of the citations above. It is biased towards my interests: history of science fiction, history of science, history of math. But it tries to be very international. In any given century, what were the things worth reading? Who were the people that made the biggest difference? It starts as a year-by-year Science Fiction history (forwards to 2010-2020), and backwards. It eventually morphs from ancient history to prehistory, to archaeology, to geological history, to cosmological history. Printed out, it far exceeds 1,000 pages.

Posted June 29, 2005 12:20 PM by Jonathan Vos Post

I'd guess that "Xiomara" is Brazilian, and that you should use Portuguese pronunciation rules. Whatever they may be...

Posted June 29, 2005 12:23 PM by theophylact

Madeleine,

I have trepidation, too, but that article irritated me in several places. There was a lot more going on in the Shrek movies than "boogers and fart jokes and burping and smart-assed talking animals;" now, the other stuff that was going on doesn't necessarily adapt well to Narnia, either, but they weren't just stupid gross-out comedy.

I also had to roll my eyes at the comment about "annoying Aslan-as-Jesus insinuations." Okay, yes, if you read the books when you were young enough your conscious mind probably managed to dodge the Allegory Hammer, but it isn't a matter of "claims that C.S. Lewis somehow wove his beloved Christian themes into the narrative" -- it's pretty well-established critical fact, and hard to miss once you start looking for it. Aslan-as-Jesus is not something the filmmakers have decided to shoehorn in to attract right-winger Christian audiences.

But I tend, despite having been burned more than once, to take a cautiously optimistic stance toward these sorts of things, and try not to judge them in advance.

I mean, after all, they DIDN'T cast Hilary Duff. That's a good start. :-)

Posted June 29, 2005 12:29 PM by Marie Brennan

My father told me the joke for 44.

It was 4 April 1944. A man noticed that it was 4/4/44 on this day -- which happened to be his 44th birthday. Feeling lucky, he went to the track, and saw a horse named "Old 44." The odds were 44 to 1.

He put $44.44 on "Old 44" to win.
[beat. beat. wait for it]...
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It came in 4th.

Posted June 29, 2005 12:31 PM by Jonathan Vos Post

I don't know how to pronounce Xiomara, but I bet Leigh Witchel does.

Posted June 29, 2005 12:34 PM by TexAnne

Serge: the actor playing Tyrranus, Johnathan Cake, has done a lot of TV movies and miniseries over the past decade... it's entirely possible you've seen him before. Interestingly he played Nero in the made-for-TV "Riverworld".

Madeleine: the Dahl family agrees with you on the Gene Wilder version of Charlie and the Chocolate Factory, but is quite happy with the Johnny Depp version. (Read it in an interview, but can't remember where dammit. Need to take more notes.) This could be interesting.

And Bill: I subscribed to "Keyhole" earlier this year and used it as a trip planner for my Chicago expedition. This means I get Google Earth for free until my Keyhole subscription lapses, and I've got to say that the trip planning would've been easier with this version. *Much* better address finding that extends outside the US, and the integration with Google search is *very* handy. It's kinda surreal, though, to take a pseudo-3D trip down the streets of DC with the "buildings" tab clicked.

Posted June 29, 2005 12:37 PM by Anton P. Nym (aka Steve)

"He totally stole that series"

Ah.

I was wondering where my videotapes had gotten too.

Posted June 29, 2005 12:41 PM by Stefan Jones

Re: Off Aslan

Though hilarious, I think the article forgot about the last forty years of animated flicks besides disney. Even Narnia has been butchard before...in both live action and animation.

Disney is sequel happy...but you can find a good one every once in awhile. I agree Hollywood has a problem with turning childhood memories to crap, but sometimes they do well.

Posted June 29, 2005 12:41 PM by Michelle

Re the Disney/Narnia article: What was wrong with The Princess Diaries II? (I saw that while playing The Movie Game -- you go to a multi-banger theatre without looking at the listings in advance and see The Next Movie Showing that you haven't already seen.)

I saw it the same afternoon as I saw Resident Evil II.

This gave me a wonderful idea for a crossover: Resident Princess in which Anne Hathaway wakes up, takes a shower for reasons not related to the plot, then discovers that all of her happy subjects have become flesh-eating zombies. She must rescue Julie Andrews and shoot her way out of the palace while wearing nothing but a bath towel before the United States (in order to cauterize the zombie plague) nukes the entire country. The end.

A much better movie than either of the originals.

Posted June 29, 2005 12:41 PM by James D. Macdonald

Of course, there's always the old Tombstone epitaph:

Here lies Lester Moore
Four slugs from a 44
No Les
No More.

***

By the way, I note that both TNH & PNH have called our attention to the always entertaining Mark Morford. Should we call such a double-barreled link a Sidicle, or a Partilite?

Posted June 29, 2005 12:50 PM by Larry Brennan

Ah, Anton, you too recognized Empire's Jonathan Cake from the Riverworld movie. You know what? I actually liked that movie. And yes, I did read all Riverworld books. "To Your Scattered Bodies Go" and "The Fabulous Riverboat" were great, but after that, Farmer stretched things on and on longer that the River was. As for the movie, I'd have liked them to stick closer to the books, but I understand and can accept the changes because this WAS a 2-hour TV movie. My only problem with Cake was his supposedly being Nero. Why did they choose Nero? Why not Domitian since Commodus had already been taken up by "Gladiator"?

Posted June 29, 2005 12:54 PM by Serge

If anyone would like to neep about locally-hosted blogging systems, I'd love to hear about it. I hate to ask people to go to an outside link, but dumping a long-ish list of requirements here seemed marginally ruder, so my list is over at my LiveJournal (it's the non-LJ blogs I'm looking to upgrade).

Posted June 29, 2005 1:15 PM by Kate Nepveu

Here in Ohio, the initial X is pronounced "eggs," as in University or Cugat.

So, Xiomara is pronounced "Eggsy O'Mara."

Posted June 29, 2005 1:21 PM by HP

Larry--you got me stuck on the idea of side-spinning particles. Thanks a lot--now I want to call them all bosons or mesons or muons.

(I have a scattershot knowledge of particle physics, brought on by too much Star Trek and random readings of physicists.)

Oh, and unless someone beat me to it, would this be comment #44?

Posted June 29, 2005 1:24 PM by Will "scifantasy" Frank

"side-spinning particles."

At the SFRA's panel on bibliography, libraries, and on-line Science Fiction databases, there was universal fond recall of "ms. found in a library" with its planet entirely covered by indices, indices to the indices, etcetera, all linking to the complete literature of the planet, which has been nanominiaturized to the size of a shoebox by successively storing bits on molecules, atoms, electrons, notched electrons, and nudged quanta... But the shoebox has been lost, so civilization collapsed.

Posted June 29, 2005 1:31 PM by Jonathan Vos Post

Larry, Patrick and I call that an error. His had priority, so I took mine down.

Posted June 29, 2005 1:34 PM by Teresa Nielsen Hayden

Jim, a conflation of Princess Diaries and Resident Evil makes my head hurt. Not least, because I can imagine it. Now I'm going to have to scrub my brain out again.

Melissa: the Xiomara I knew pronounced it with a kind of soft z-h sound: zhiomara; but just the other day I saw an article in which the name was spelled (by its owner) Siomara; in any case, I don't think you can go too far wrong with a soft S.

Anton P. Steve: I think I read the same article (and can't remember where either, dammit). I have great hope for the new Charlie, which from the previews appears to be working from the book itself. I don't always trust Tim Burton, but I've got a cautiously good feeling about this one. (No Anthony Newley, for starters...) I always wanted to see Joel Grey play Wonka, since he looked so much like the illustrations in the book. But I'm curious to see what Johnny Depp does with it.

Posted June 29, 2005 2:00 PM by Madeleine Robins

Re: PD & PDII

The problem with those movies is that there is no real conflict. Leaves you with the feeling you have after wating most of Sixth Sense without watching the last few minutes..

"Well, that's nice but what's the point again?

Only there's no twist.

Posted June 29, 2005 2:09 PM by Michelle

Must be a long day...that should be:

"...after watching most of Sixth Sense..."

Over at Hatrack I read OSC's review of Chocolate Factory...he complain's that Johnny Depp modeled the character after Micheal Jackson.

I'm still waiting to see it but I have noted in the past that OSC's perception seems a skewed to me.

Or maybe I'm Skewed.

Posted June 29, 2005 2:12 PM by Michelle

Leah Miller -- the only book I know organized like you want, is Larry Gonick's "The Cartoon History of the Universe" -- it is however not exactly a reference book, and I don't believe it is indexed either. Good tho.

It's not really organized like that, though. Gonick does sometimes insert asides on what is going on elsewhere at the same time as his current narrative, but that's about it, as I recall. Most chapters cover a given geographical area for a certain period, and the periods tend to get longer (or there are just more chapters on the same area in a row, I forget which) in the later volumes.

Which is not at all to say I wouldn't recommend the books, but I don't think they're what Leah is looking for.

Posted June 29, 2005 2:15 PM by Dan Blum

Leah,

My favorite chronological history is the Times Atlas of World History, on the strength of its concision, ice-age-to-yesterday scope, and cheery maps a-tangle with warring arrows.

Posted June 29, 2005 2:15 PM by Lloyd Burchill

Johnny Depp is a genius actor, perhaps the greatest of his generation. I'll watch him do anything. I've spoken at length with him about his craft. He is deeply polite, articulate, and committed to acting, and has profound ontological depressive withdrawal between films. Today is the 50th anniversary of some key Brando events, and the release of "Rock Around the Clock." Dang, that makes me feel old.

The eponymous Xiomara of the Pasadena fine restaurant of the same name is from Cuba, and pronounces it "SHEE-o-mahra." She served the best French cuisine in Pasadena (among over 700 restaurants) but the Cuban food gradually displaced the French, as driven by the customers, and by Jennifer Lopez' stylish restaurant in Pasadena serving Cuban/Puerto Rican cuisine.

Posted June 29, 2005 2:20 PM by Jonathan Vos Post

Michelle--I thought the consensus was that he based his portrayal on Marilyn Manson?

(After seeing the trailer, by the way, I'm convinced that he based his voice on Gene Wilder.)

Posted June 29, 2005 2:25 PM by Will "scifantasy" Frank

whoah, that google maps thing is phreaking cool. I tilt the view so I'm looking at the horizon, set the altitude so I'm around 500 feet, turn on the buildings, and then "fly" around major cities. Hey, it's WAY cheaper than renting a helicopter. And you never get bad weather....

Posted June 29, 2005 2:29 PM by Greg London

Ever thought of Michael Jackson being cast as Elric of Melnibone?

Posted June 29, 2005 2:29 PM by Dave Bell

because it's an open thread: When you linked to M. Bérubé's retcon, I remmebered this cute retcon:

My Porridge was Cold this Morning

And of course metamorphosism is worth reading anyway.

Posted June 29, 2005 2:34 PM by TH

Leah et al.,

Oh, and as to the continuation of the encyclopedia into the deeper future: Cosmic Future combines the latest scientific theories of geological and astronomical evolution of the Earth, Sun, and Milky Way Galaxy. Just for fun, it interleaves a few pieces of the chronology of the amazing novel by William Olaf Stapledon [Star Maker, 1937], which inspired young Arthur C. Clarke. The astronomical predictions cited here assume that human beings (or our descendants) do NOT move the Earth further from the Sun, or slow down the Sun's evolution by "lifting" hydrogen from the sun, and banking it in artificial Jupiters, or otherwise engaging in major Planetary Engineering. These are a kind of "default" predictions about the very distant future.

Posted June 29, 2005 2:38 PM by Jonathan Vos Post

Xiomara Reyes's bio on the ABT website says she's from Cuba.

Posted June 29, 2005 2:39 PM by Melissa Singer

Re: Will
I didn't say OSC was right. lol Besides he might not know...he does live in a state where MM was banned for quite a while.

As for Johnny's acting ability...cute and talented. Num.

Re: Dave
cept for the fact that I couldn't imagine MJ lifting stormbringer..he does have the facial build simular to the art depicitng the white wolf.

However now I must smite you, how dare you sully the enternal hero as such.

Still maybe he'd do okay as Jherek...in Dancers...yes that would fit. Just dye his hair white and put him in a black victorian dress.

Then he just has to sit there and look pretty while the scenery changed and made the story.

Perhaps we should start a thread: 101 evil things to do with micheal jackson.

Posted June 29, 2005 2:43 PM by Michelle

Will: The same interview that neither I nor Madeleine can recall (dammit) stated that Depp said he modeled part of his Wonka on the man-child aspects of MJ.

As far as OSC's opinions on the matter, well, his rarely agree with mine... I'll just take the movie as it comes.

Serge: I was surprised that there was a movie version of Riverworld... I may now have to poke around to see if it's a rental anywhere. "Empire" is the first I've seen of Cake. (Note, class, the capital "C." Alas I'm far too familiar with "lower-c" cake. *glances at waistline*)

Greg: I'm looking forward to their implementing the "buildings" option on major tourist traps like the Pyramids and Notre Damme Cathedral. If they haven't already... gotta check that sometime. Keyhole had some great coverage of Kennedy Space Center, too, which would make for a great conversion. (And some parts of Las Vegas were mapped down to a three inch resolution, which is just scary really.)

Posted June 29, 2005 2:43 PM by Anton P. Nym (aka Steve)

Not being raised with anything more remotely Christian than a Christmas tree, and some annoying Christian classmates (who taught me to despise proselytizers in 1st grade), I managed to avoid C.S. Lewis's Allegory Hammer until the end of The Voyage of the Dawn Treader, where he exchanges the Allegory Hammer for the Allegory IED. The scene as I remember it:

Lucy, Edmund and Eustace come upon an island with a talking lamb. A remarkably annoying and preachy talking lamb, which should have been a tip off, but then it turns into the lion, Aslan, and the Christian symbolism explodes. "Oh Aslan!" cry Lucy and Edmund, while Eustace just stares at the lion who undragonified him by peeling his skin off chapters earlier, but now has for himself done a transformation without leaving a painful bloody mutton-skin behind. Nice trick, thinks Eustace. Didn't you think of sharing, or did you get off on peeling me like a grape, you selfish prat?

"Oh Aslan, will we never see you again?" ask Edmund and Lucy.

"No," says Aslan, "you won't. But I have a name in your world too."

"Oh Aslan, tell us!" cry Edmund and Lucy, still clueless.

"I cannot say," says Aslan, while Eustace thinks, Why not? Because you're making up the rules as you go along? Or because you can't believe how stupid my cousins are? It's Jesus, J-E-S-U-S, do I have to spell it out for them?

Then Aslan leaves, sending the kids back to England, and Edmund and Lucy realize--no, not that Aslan is a Jesus allegory--but that Eustace wasn't mentioned in the Narnia-ban, so he can go back for a sequel.

Great, thinks Eustace, and while the events in The Silver Chair are pretty fun, because it's mostly Aslan-free, Aslan is exceedingly annoying in The Last Battle, and also breaks his own rule about Lucy and Edmund coming back to Narnia via the expedient of killing them in a railway accident so they can be there for Narniageddon.

Posted June 29, 2005 2:45 PM by Kevin Andrew Murphy

The Telltale Signs

I think Poe would approve.

Posted June 29, 2005 2:48 PM by Skwid

And yet...

I still cried when I realized they were dead.

Posted June 29, 2005 2:51 PM by Michelle

"Riverworld" is actually available on DVD.

About Aslan... Didn't he appear as the King of the Island of Misfit Toys? Or maybe that was his brother.

Posted June 29, 2005 2:52 PM by Serge

Teresa, I love The Stars In Their Courses on tape as well -- it sustained me on many a long commute. I was already preparing for my annual reading of those chapters over the coming weekend when I heard the news about Foote.

Blackstone has an unabridged audio version of the trilogy (read by the seemingly ubiquitous Grover Gardner) available either as cassettes or as MP3 CD's -- and you can rent the cassetes from Blackstone as well. However, Foote did record his other except from the trilogy, The Beleaguered City, about Vicksburg. He also recorded his novel Shiloh, but nobody seems to have it available currently.

Posted June 29, 2005 3:01 PM by Claude Muncey

Regarding OSC:
Seems to me I just posted this elsewhere, but to quote...me...I'm very glad that I'm a Milhollandist (http://www.somethingpositive.net/sp03182005.shtml) and not an Aerieist (http://www.queenofwands.net/d/20050402.html) when it comes to OSC, because it's just easier to deal with.

Kevin: Being completely Jewish, and having last read a Narnia book when I was maybe ten years old, and then only maybe reading the first two (though I know I listened to Voyage and Silver Chair on audiobook, I only really remember Chair) I never--and I do mean never--got it, until I looked back from many years later with explanation from my friends.

Posted June 29, 2005 3:08 PM by Will "scifantasy" Frank

The Narnia news makes me a little nervous, but this fills me with abject terror. The Passion of the Merriman Lyon? Noooo, make the bad men stop!

Posted June 29, 2005 3:15 PM by Ariella

Michelle, I think I'll take this guy's call over OSC's.

And I'm definitely not Skewed...I'm Skwid.

Kate, I've been more or less happily using GM for a couple of years now, and it *is* still being developed and supported over at its forums, just not with a great deal of vigor. I can't really recommend it to you, though, because it only meets the last three of your requirements, which seemed like the lesser of them in importance. It's ideal if you need a non-database blogging solution, but that's pretty much its primary selling point.

Posted June 29, 2005 3:30 PM by Skwid

Having been raised in a family as a-religious as any I know, I completely didn't get the religious allegory in the Narnia books until after I read Lewis's Perelandra trilogy. Then went back, smacked forehead with heel of hand, and cried, "Aha! Now I get it!" It certainly never got in the way of my loving the books.

And yeah, I cried at the end of the last book--partly because they were dead, but as much because I'd run out of Narnia books to read (and this was in the days before they farmed out universes for endless sequels). No more of that particular world to conquer.

Posted June 29, 2005 3:31 PM by Madeleine Robins

OMG Mr. Rodgers...that's perfect.

He definetly scared me as a child.

Posted June 29, 2005 3:35 PM by Michelle

Skwid, thank you, if it only does the last three I will take GreyMatter off my list.

MT is leading in early discussions, which deserves further investigation.

Posted June 29, 2005 3:35 PM by Kate Nepveu

But, wasn't Octavius when young an annoying whiner of whom no one expected Great Things or Complex Plotting and machinations, or the talent mixed with the ambition to become monarch over the Roman Empire, of, originally? IIRC from reading whatever stuff that I could consider reasonably reliably as historical data, everyone way underestimated him and left out out of their calculations as an operator.

I wish that some competent and interested in fidelity well-funded etc. production/distribution entity would pick up the Judith Tarr novel about Cleopatra which had Octavian in it, which shows Octavian managing to outmaneuver and outscheme nearly everyone else in the Roman-influenced world. (But in the end his Livia did him in... hmm, how many books are there out there that are reasonable as reading matter and such, focusing on her, as opposed to her blood relatives such as Claudis, and her relatives by marriage such as Julius (though she wasn't married to his foster son at the time) and Octavian/Augustus?

Ever thought of Michael Jackson being cast as Elric of Melnibone?

Euuwww, now I have to wash my brain out! Elric relied upon drugs and then Stormbringer to overcome his debilitating probably-from-too-much-inbreeding chronic ailments. He wasn't malformed, he wacking in pigmentation and good health, but he hadn't had surgery reshaping his face and hadn't undergone whatever cosmetic otherwise medicine that had been practiced on Jackson. Michael Jackson's appearance is the result of intentional self-mutiltation vis modern cosmetic surgery and Lifestyle Cosmetic Other Treatments, the mental outlook that paid for all that modification is subject to discussion regarding "mental health" and outlook, but physically, Michael Jackson's issues are of his own making. Elric was born with physiological issues.

Something that always bothered me about the view of Elric--in the culture he was born in, the entire Melnibonean Empire was his legacy, and his do to with as he wished by Melnibonean law on the death of his father the Emperor--the law was quite clear about that, he has inherited an absolute rulership and the responsibility of all Melniboneans was to do whatever the Emperor told them to/wanted them to do. On that basis nothing he could do to any Melnibonean citizen was wrong, since by definition whatever he wanted or decreed was law, in that absolute monarchy. The court existed to follow his whims, etc.

His absolute rule didn't extend over to the world beyond the Empire. But within in the Empire, if he went and did things like wreck Imyrr and slaughter his subjects, that was completely within his authority and not subject to recriminations from any Melnibonean. There was no way he could be a traitor to Melnibone, since he was the absolute ruler of the place and his whim the law.

Something else that bothered me--he was supposed to be this great sorcerer, yet it seemed that his personal power was really only that of reuesting assistance from elementals, using the power of Stormbringer, and telling other people what to do, as opposed to exerting his own will directly and having magic happened that he ordered, rather than elementals and such impose.

Posted June 29, 2005 3:53 PM by Paula Lieberman

Another amusing note on the Morford article, the Chon slightly modified the title on the homepage to omit the "and dump" that appears on the article headline.

There are times I get the sense that the Cron is really uncomfortable with Morford, but he has a following that draws people to the site so they can't just shuffle him off to Buffalo.

Posted June 29, 2005 3:55 PM by Larry Brennan

This just in:

England has apparently it's first Jedi to Parliament.

No word yet on his position on the Sith reign across the pond...

Posted June 29, 2005 4:02 PM by Skwid

"Lorem ipsum" in the news:
The official White House "Renewal in Iraq" page

Found in yesterday's
No More Mister Nice Blog
via
The 18 Minute Gap

Posted June 29, 2005 4:06 PM by Bob Oldendorf

About the real Octavius... True, he may have been the way he was depicted in "Empire". I am NOT an expert on Ancient Rome. I guess I simply have problems seeing that kid turn into Brian Blessed's Augustus in "I, Claudius".

Posted June 29, 2005 4:08 PM by Serge

Having been raised secular Jewish, I didn't get that Narnia was Christian allegory _at all_ and even now have to stop and think to see it that way. I mean, I understand that that's what it's meant to be, but it's always just been a really good fantasy story to me (since I started reading fantasy & SF at about 8 and didn't hit Narnia until a couple of years later).

DD and I are reading our way through now and I've made no mention to Christianity or Christian influences to her. She thinks it's cool fantasy. We're about half a chapter from the end of Dawn Treader, and we're reading in the old order, the order I grew up with. We have a boxed set of the British mass markets, courtesy of Brian Lumley. The interior art's muddy thanks to multiple reproductions but the story still works. DD was quite excited when Eustace became a dragon, and like many small children, is enthralled with Reepicheep.

Posted June 29, 2005 4:11 PM by Melissa Singer

Interesting to see OSC's take on the Wonka film. I've just come over from Slashdot, where Wil Wheaton was suggesting that he thought Depp was one of the few modern actors who could carry the role.

Oh, and having been raised atheist, I didn't get the religion in Narnia either. :)

Posted June 29, 2005 4:12 PM by Jules

How about the aforementionned Johnny Depp as Elric?

By the way, after "Lord of the Rings" started making it to the big screen, I read that Moorcock was working with some movie people on a trilogy based on "Elric". Has anybody heard anything else about that? Or did it go belly-up like 1976's adaptation of "Caves of Steel", which would have starred Paul Newman.

Posted June 29, 2005 4:21 PM by Serge

Re: Serge

I don't know if they could make Depp white enough.

Posted June 29, 2005 4:25 PM by Michelle

Agreed. If they tried to make Depp's skin albino-like, it probably would look like pancake make-up. They could simply change the character so that his skin would be paler, as long as his hair is white. Heck, Peter Jackson's version of the hobbits didn't have particularly furry feet and I didn't hear anybody complain.

Posted June 29, 2005 4:35 PM by Serge

Melissa: Reepicheep is my boyfriend. :-)

I was raised Episcopalian and didn't get the allegory until I was in high school. (I may have mentioned that I wasn't the most critical reader ever.)

Ariella: Aaargh! Nooooo!

When the Dark is rising
None shall turn it back.
Hollywood shall always
Make the magic crack.
Would the ironists
Want to throw a stone?
Five movies filmed
And fans go alone.

Posted June 29, 2005 4:36 PM by TexAnne

Madeleine, the original book was called Charlie and the Chocolate Factory. When the movie with Wilder came out, there had just been a movie called Charly based on the novel version of Flowers for Algernon, and they didn't want to court that confusion. I kid you not.

Johnny Depp could play Elric and get him right. He'd look like Edward Scissorhands and act like...I don't want to think about it.

In fact, the idea of any Moorcock novel being made into a movie sort of turns my stomach. And for such a trashy project to get a real actor like Johnny Depp strikes me as unlikely in the extreme.

Posted June 29, 2005 4:37 PM by Xopher (Christopher Hatton)

Just another data point: I was raised in a Catholic family, read the Narnia books as fantasy, and loved them... the Christian allegory escaped me entirely. Of the few other kids I knew who'd read them, none of them mentioned the allegory if they knew of it.

When I got into high school, I had an English teacher who taught me to see allegories and symbolism under every literary bed. Even after that, the Christian allegory in Narnia didn't exactly leap out at me, other than the realization that C.S. Lewis was being quite hostile to non-Christian religions in "The Last Battle".

I guess I just didn't want to see the allegory. They're more fun as pure fantasy.

Posted June 29, 2005 4:41 PM by Jimcat Kasprzak

Something else that bothered me--he was supposed to be this great sorcerer, yet it seemed that his personal power was really only that of reuesting assistance from elementals, using the power of Stormbringer, and telling other people what to do, as opposed to exerting his own will directly and having magic happened that he ordered, rather than elementals and such impose.

That's the difference between a Magician (or Mage, or Magus) and a Sorcerer. Magicians wield magic directly; Sorcerers compel demons and spirits to do their bidding, usually by knowing their True Names. This has gotten muddled these days, but I have to admit Moorcock got that one right.

In my own fantasy universe, which I devised for a roleplaying game, the characters would have met a highly ethical Sorcerer (almost a contradiction in terms, if you think about it), had the whole thing not collapsed after a mere 18 years of play. He was putting together a set of rules for ethical Sorcerers to follow, involving making deals with the summoned beings rather than forcing them, etc.

"I'm compiling the Sorcerer's Code," he said.

Posted June 29, 2005 4:43 PM by Xopher (Christopher Hatton)

Re: X

I thought about it...he'd look like edward and act like bowie.

Posted June 29, 2005 4:50 PM by Michelle

Watching Depp in a short trailer last night, both my husband and I instantly thought of Michael Jackson.

And now, for something completely different: http://www.maggotart.com/pages/1/index.htm

Posted June 29, 2005 4:56 PM by Faren Miller

Xopher: Ow. Ow ow ow.

Posted June 29, 2005 5:12 PM by Will "scifantasy" Frank

Xopher and Michelle:

regarding I thought about it...he'd look like edward and act like bowie.

I do not at all mean this as any endorsement whatsoever of a movie-fied Elric, but, um, yum. Just yum. In fact, it's more than yum. Might even be a squeeeeeeeeeee!!!!!

Well, it might be, if I ever made that noise. Which I do not, and I certainly did not, just now. So you know.

Posted June 29, 2005 5:34 PM by punkrockhockeymom

Re: Punkrock

This is the point where men should start taking notes.

I'd make a squee nose for that too. An I could imagine bowie with stormbringer. Thank you Yoshitaka Amano.

Posted June 29, 2005 5:40 PM by Michelle

For those who object to Depp as Elric, how about Tilda Swinton?

Posted June 29, 2005 6:16 PM by Serge

Re: Serge.

Now that's just wrong.

Kind of like Madagascar just's wrong.

She would look better in the black victorian dress though.

Posted June 29, 2005 6:23 PM by Michelle

Tilda wrong as Elric, Michelle? I don't know. It wouldn't be the first time she played someone androgynous, when not a guy outright.

Posted June 29, 2005 6:36 PM by Serge

Xopher: I had read (somewhere. I used to have a memory, honest I did) that the first movie was named Willy Wonka because a major backer was the candy company which had bought the name, and they wanted to use the movie to launch the Wonka candy line--and of course, naming the candy after Charlie wouldn't have made much sense.

Could be true. Could be false. Makes as much sense as anything, I spose.

Posted June 29, 2005 6:43 PM by Madeleine Robins

The story Madeleine recounts was also mentioned on a documentary attached to a cable TV showing of the movie.

Twist: The initial run of the tie-in candy was a bit of a bust, because the stuff melted at just a touch above room temperature.

There still is Wonka candy, featuring a perky Willy who doesn't look anything like Michael Jackson.

The "where are they now" segment of the documentary was interesting. The kid who played Augustus Gloop was German (it was essentially a German movie) and didn't understand a lick of English. He, and at least two other of the Bad Kid actors, landed careers as accountants.

The blonde kid who plays Charlie became a vetrinarian and lives in upstate NY.

Posted June 29, 2005 6:53 PM by Stefan Jones

Okay let me put it another way:

Fight Club / Being John Malkovich wrong.

It's like being one level below the art flick (Pi/Devil's Advocate) but above things the fall into stupid.

Kind of like the big screen version of Joan of Arc, several years ago. I go excepting drama/epic and get psycho. Not a bad movie just wrong.

I could not get over Elric being a her (now she'd be great for the novels of the Rose or other Female EC's) However I know there are those that would thrill to that.

Posted June 29, 2005 6:53 PM by Michelle

Oh, THAT kind of wrong. It's just that I liked Tilda in the otherwise-blah "Constantine". Of course, I like my angels nasty. See Christopher Walken in "The Prophecy". Or theone in Neil Gaiman's "Neverwhere".

As for "Being John Malkovich"... I usually stay away from anything he's in. One exception was "Man in the Iron Mask", but because it had Gabriel Byrne and Jeremy Irons. Every time Malkovich opened his mouth and mispronounced d'Artagnan's name, I'd grind my teeth.

Posted June 29, 2005 7:03 PM by Serge

Would Paul Newman have played Lije Bailey or R. Daneel Olivaw? Not quite right for either, I'd have thought: too handsome to be Bailey, and too emotional to be Olivaw.

Produced today, I'd like to see Steve Buscemi as Bailey. I may be misremembering, but aren't all Earthmen supposed to be mongrel runts, while the off-worlders are genetically pure? I recall Bailey swooning a few times.

For some reason, Samuel L Jackson as Olivaw strikes me as an interesting dig on the book's eugenics, but the role really needs a good-looking actor who can act without emoting, which probably isn't as easy as it sounds.

Posted June 29, 2005 8:45 PM by NelC

Does anybody know which Pleiad is supposed to be the missing one? (And can you back up your claim?) I'm getting a variety of answers off of google.

Posted June 29, 2005 8:46 PM by Jackie

It's about damn time the protest songs started showing up. This is a particularly good one.

Posted June 29, 2005 9:02 PM by Alex Cohen

Faren - I completely disbelieve in the whole maggot art concept. They lost me when they proactively addressed the issue of whether or not the maggots were harmed.

Posted June 29, 2005 9:50 PM by Larry Brennan

It feels very very weird, given the conversation, to never have known the Narnia books except as allegory. You see, I never read them until I was in my 20s. Didn't much enjoy them. This is true of a number of classic children's books -- that I never read them until an adult. Wind in the Willows, Charlottes Web, Velveteen Rabbit. I can't remember what I was reading as a kid -- Tom Sawyer and Huckleberry Finn of course. I memorized the Laura Ingalls Wilder books. Lots of fairy tale books and Mary Poppins. Whatever I could get my hands on really. Oh, and along of another thread, lots and lots of Louisa May Alcott. Rose in Bloom was probably my favorite.

MKK

Posted June 29, 2005 10:20 PM by Mary Kay

Peter Jackson's version of the hobbits didn't have particularly furry feet and I didn't hear anybody complain.

I complained.

Posted June 29, 2005 11:02 PM by Lucy Kemnitzer

Will: Xopher: Ow. Ow ow ow.

Well, thank you! I was wondering if anybody actually got that.

Posted June 29, 2005 11:04 PM by Xopher (Christopher Hatton)

Re: timelines. Have you seen this project? (Historical Event Markup and Linking Project). Requires a browser with an svg plugin for full effect.

Posted June 29, 2005 11:13 PM by cafl

Well, as far as my astronomy books can tell me, nobody knows which is the missing Pleiad. All the legends we have concerning them discuss seven Pleiades, but pretty much everyone nowadays can see six. There are nine named stars in the cluster; one of the stars is a known variable, which could be an explanation, but it's the one named after Pleione, the Pleiades' mother. That's not a sister, obviously, so who knows?

You can find mythological explanations for several of the sisters being the 'missing' one; the lone book I have that addresses the problem in detail has a couple of quotes from Roman authors pointing to Merope, but as you can see on this page, Merope is far from the dimmest star in the cluster.

The cluster is very young, though--estimates I've seen say around 100 million years, so it's possible there are other effects going on that have obscured one of the sisters since the time of the Greeks. But back to the original question--no one's really sure, as far as I can tell, but I'm really more of a theorist so I could be quite wrong.

Also, I'm curious how they're going to make the Dark is Rising into a movie series that's true to the books (if they're going to try). Part of what made the books so great, for me, was how weird Will was, even discounting his calling. You can sympathize with him, because he's the POV character when you meet him, but he is a little cold. And will they be able to find child/teen actors who can carry off the necessary adult-in-a-child's-body thing?

Posted June 30, 2005 1:00 AM by Melanie S.

Just realized the second sentence sounds a little weird--I was pointing out that more than one myth points to seven Pleiades, not attempting to restate the obvious. :)

Posted June 30, 2005 2:05 AM by Melanie S.

Alright, I can picture it now: Elric the Animation. Character design by Yoshitaka Amano. Director: Mamoru Oshii. Music by Rachel's, Keiran Ebner and David Bowie (also used as main charactre model).

About sorcerer/mage given the etymologies (especially of the first one to be honest), I always assumed the mage was the one working his powers through will via tools/methods, while the sorcerer was somehow bound to chance and/or fate... which fits well with Elric also.

Posted June 30, 2005 2:52 AM by MD²

On the "chronological history" subthread, I have the three volumes of "The Nineteenth Century Year by Year, which is self-explanatory. It's by Edwin Emerson, Jr. and was published by Collier in 1900. There are a number of full-page illos, some in color; while the text is narrative, the date being covered is in the page head, and Key Events are picked out in the margin. Mine came used and cheap, and unless you're absolutely obsessed with the 1800s it's probably not worth it otherwise (haven't checked availability), but a pretty exact example of the form.

As for "could they make Johnny Depp white enough for Elric" -- they did it to Michael Jackson, didn't they?

Posted June 30, 2005 3:01 AM by John M. Ford

There's a road near here that has several switchbacks, each one named for one of the Pleiades. They even included Atlas and Pleione.

- but not Alcyone, apparently. Alcyone has a different sign from the rest, brown instead of green, and smaller. She's tucked up under some trees by the last curve in the road. It's not even a switchback really. I was wondering if that was intentional, leaving one Pleiad out like that.

Because the cluster is young, one of the stars could have gone supernova in recent history. I saw a few references to that on google. There doesn't seem to be much evidence for a supernova, though.

Posted June 30, 2005 4:52 AM by Jackie

Should "Melnibone" be pronounced with the accent on the first syllable and the last bit rhyming with "phone", or the accent on the second syllable and the last bit rhyming with "pawnee"?

Posted June 30, 2005 7:37 AM by Jeremy Osner

I've generally heard it pronounced Mel-nih-bo-nay, with a slight stress on the last syllable (and it's sometimes written with an accent over the terminal e), though I haven't heard Moorcock himself say that. (Nor, I think, would I be likely to ask.) Having the last syllable be "bone," however, has the faint ring of fauceted emeralds about it.

As to how one pronounces "Pan Tang," country of . . . oh, right, wizards and . . . like that, I have no idea.

Next up: Dunsanin, the retirement community for fevered fantasy enpurplerizers.

Posted June 30, 2005 7:48 AM by John M. Ford

Hey if any of you are in the vicinity of midtown Manhattan (or will be on the evening of next Tuesday the 5th) and would like to meet up for a drink, I will be at Kavehaz (37 W. 26th), listening to my friend and former guitar teacher Ed Russell lead his eponymous jazz combo The Ed Russell Group, starting at 8 pm. Ed is a student of Pat Martino and quite an accomplished jazz guitarist in his own right; and his combo is groovy too. Drop me a line (jeremy at readin dot com) if you can make it, and I'll keep an eye out for you. Or, you can look at this relatively recent photo of me for reference. (I am the tall one.)

Posted June 30, 2005 8:40 AM by Jeremy Osner

To be clear(er): Ed is playing on Tuesday the 5th, starting at 8pm.

Posted June 30, 2005 8:42 AM by Jeremy Osner

Ta-ra-ra-boom-de-ay
Elric of Mel-bon-aye
He had a sword they say
That caused his soul's decay.

He angsted every day
But slew folk anyway
It made him waste away
Ta-ra-ra-boom-de-ay.

Posted June 30, 2005 9:14 AM by James D. Macdonald

Jim, I'm teaching that to Puppy as soon as I get home.

Posted June 30, 2005 9:21 AM by punkrockhockeymom

Patrick, Teresa -- can we have full-text feeds back, please? Here's the latest entry: "Yo, Wocky Jivvy, Wergle Flomp--
I can’t believe I keep forgetting to mention this, but some months ago I actually managed to come up with..."

Me: "With WHAT?" *click* *click* *waits for server*

Posted June 30, 2005 9:25 AM by Stephanie

James, you are sick with your Ta-ra-ra-boom-de-ay take on Elric. When I hear that song, I keep thinking of the two 6-year-old girls who kept singing it thru the "Banana Split" TV show. Which probably dates me.

As for the pronunciation of "Melnibone", I always pronounced the last syllable 'nay' because of that accent. Of course Moorcock have have stuck that accent on the 'e' not knowing how that would really sound but thinking it looked cool.

Elric might work best as animation indeed. I still have the book that Wendy Pini published in the mid-Eighties on that very subject. In her foolosih youth, she had determined that she would do such an adaptation on her own. She eventually came to her senses. But the illustrations sure were nice.

Posted June 30, 2005 9:36 AM by Serge

To NelC... As far as I know, Paul Newman would have played Lije Bailey in "Caves of Steel". Yes, he would have been wrong for the part. Steve Buscemi? Sure, but who's going to risk a big-budget movie with someone who looks like that, no matter how talented he is? Hey, let's bring up Johnny Depp again.

Posted June 30, 2005 9:40 AM by Serge

That was Wendy Pini's foolish youth. Not her foolosih one, whatever that is.

Posted June 30, 2005 10:15 AM by Serge

"The Plieades are six and the planets are eight
But one little star is the pole of my fate"
Arthur Guiterman, _The Laughing Muse_ , 1920's

Posted June 30, 2005 11:05 AM by Erik Nelson

As far as Narnia goes, I just thought Aslan was Arthur (well, I knew the books were British, and they are alliterative, and I knew, at the time I was reading them, far more about Arthur then I did about Jesus), but for whatever reason I never got beyond Dawn Treader: I had the entire boxed set(nice copies, too), but just sort of gave up between there and the first few pages of the following (Silver Chair?)

Ah. I know why I stopped. I found Over Sea, Under Stone at that point. Also, The Book of Three. Makes sense, now.

Posted June 30, 2005 11:10 AM by BSD

I am looking forward to interesting Sylvia in the Chronicles of Narnia but am giving her another year and a half or so before I attempt it.

Posted June 30, 2005 11:47 AM by Jeremy Osner

Having forgotten anything but a few names of the Nine Muses, I checked recently and discovered that most are muses for one kind of writing or another (music and dance associated with some of these), and there are two that seem offbeat these days -- for astronomy and history, though these may have been a part of any good Greek's education back then -- but there's no one at all for the visual arts. The "missing Pleiade" topic reminded me of this "missing Muse" thing. Does anyone out there have further info or comments on the subject?

Posted June 30, 2005 12:24 PM by Faren Miller

I dunno, Serge, I was going to go on vacation and send people foolosih poctsards. But I also value correct spelling; it's quite a quandry.

Posted June 30, 2005 12:27 PM by Xopher (Christopher Hatton)

The White House has got some interesting news about Iraq up right now though it will probably be taken down in short order. Something to do with praising pain and damning pleasure...

Posted June 30, 2005 12:28 PM by Jeremy Osner

Faren Miller:

Euterpe Opera Theatre with link to Muses home page.

The muses are all the daughters of Mnemosyne, goddess of memory.

Posted June 30, 2005 12:50 PM by Jonathan Vos Post

And therefore are sometimes called the mnemosynides, or Children of Memory.

Posted June 30, 2005 1:49 PM by Xopher (Christopher Hatton)

I think Depp is wrong about Mr. Rogers, though, when he includes him in the group of people about whom he thought "My God, they can't be like that at home, you know?" Captain Kangaroo, sure; I've never seen Uncle Al and so can't comment about him. But Mr. Rogers was someone whose outside presentation seems to have been remarkably congruent with the inside person.

I didn't actually watch his show much when I was growing up, but after reading the profile of Mr. Rogers published in Esquire in 1998, I've had a deep-seated respect and affection for the man.

That section of the Depp interview seems a little muddled to me, so he may not actually have been including Mr. Rogers in that group of game-show hosts. I hope that's the case. If not, Depp isn't as good at observing a person's character as I thought he was.

Posted June 30, 2005 1:59 PM by Lexica

If you can find it, Jamie Rothbart's interview with and profile of Fred Rogers is just wonderful.

It appeared on This American Life about four years back, and is collected on Rothbart's own CD.

Posted June 30, 2005 2:56 PM by Stefan Jones

I'm not surprised, Jeremy. Somehow I can believe that if you actually got past the first pa