Glad to hear about Elise.

No, I . . .

Duh?

'Scuse me, I have to go pound out a ding in my Weltanschauung.

i am here too and hooray for you and elise is right here next to me at the fake internet cafe and we are excited for you.

Hey, Patrick!
[high-fives pnh]
Good thing we posted.

[smooches jmf]

Hey, sdn just posted from next to me. This must be the future.

[exeunt, giggling]

All communications media are eventually woven into the fabric of life to the point where their primary use is for conversations reducible to:
"Hi"
"Hi"
"Bye"
"Bye"

Now that I've got you all together: Hi!

Hi, Avedon!

Hi, Avedon!

Kind of amazing how big these Internet cafes really are. 'Course, if somebody spills their double mocha latte with bourbon, it's going to take out two dozen keyboards and an unspecified quantity of Bluetooth-enabled body jewelry.

Yup, there we go. Looks just like Voyage to the Bottom of the Sea in here.

I'm back. finally met Elise, at the Taxi Stand at the SECC-Jim said, "oh, there's Elise!" so I came over and introduced myself. We share a love for beads, though I brought precious little jewelry with me.

and Hello again to Patrick. We ran parties Friday and Satrurday night, plus table at the exhibits section of the hall because Kansas City is bidding (again) for 2009. I was happy to see him, but I think I encountered him while i was checking on the room (empties, filling food plates, etc.). I don't remember, it's a bit of a blur right now. I took notes but they're on the laptop.

Long trip, we brought too much stuff, then bought more (a couple of things that cost less tha souvenirs stayed there). Then again we were in the UK/Ireland for two and a half weeks.

Margene and I want to go back and either live just outside Dublin or in the Midlands in England. sigh.

Long trip, would be sleepy (we arrived in KC at 11:58) BUT we got really whacked down on the runway and my adrenaline is going to take a bit to reduce enough for me to sleep.

So, THAT's what the 'M' stands for... Well, congrats, John.

(And by the way, I'm still bummed that I lost my copy of "The Scholars of Night". Actually, my father-in-law did when I lent him the book. But the effect is the same.)

I mean... Congrats about the shortlist.

Erm, Serge, the "Mike" means that's what we call him.

The secret of John's middle name endures...

Hi, guys!

John Milo Ford, the name is. As in Milo Chevrolet.

Serge, I feel for you most sincerely; but no matter how sorrowful you are, you're not getting my copy of The Scholars of Night.

I know this is off topic but the other one on this was closed. If you can post this in a brandnew post, please do so.

Pickled Dragon Hoax
Early in 2004 there was much excitement in the media over the "discovery" in England of what appeared to be a baby dragon or dragon foetus preserved in formaldehyde in an ancient glass jar. The discovery was made by David Hart. He claimed that the strange object had been saved by his grandfather, a museum curator, and had then gathered dust in the garage for twenty years.
After much media attention and further spinning of yarns, the pickled dragon was revealed to be a hoax. The "creature" was actually a model created by Colin Shulver of Crawley Creatures. It was made from Silicon with latex wings and nylon claws and teeth.

The stunt was masterminded by Allistair Mitchell. Why? Publicity. Mitchell was having trouble getting a publisher interested in his dragon-related fantasy novel. He thought that the publicity might get him a publishing contract.

He was right. His novel is to be published under the penname P.R.Moredun

So, Teresa, no way you'll part with your copy of "Scholars"? Drat.

Serge:
ABEBooks lists 42 copies among their various member bookstores, some dirt cheap (even hardcovers.)

I always check there first for anything O.O.P.

ABEbooks? Thanks, Clifton.

I found "Scolars" on ABEbooks. Any other book of that kind by John that I could put on the same order?

So, any of you guys coming back through London? The garden is looking nice these days....

Heard all about it, Nikki. Authors do the darnedest things.

Serge, it's John M. Ford, known as Mike. No one addresses him as John.

It's one of those skiffy things -- Stan Robinson, Quinn Yarbro, Chip Delany, Scott Card, Jim Kelly, etc.

"Mike"? Duly noted.

Will he kill and dismember us and burn our bodies and make drums of our skin if we call him Milo? I love that name! I have ever since I read The Phantom Tollbooth.

No, but if you call him Milo, we'll all think you're talking about Patrick's nephew.

Congratulations, Mike! That's certainly a well-deserved nomination.

I just wrote the stuff. Like most collections, it did have an editor.

In Australia, the word 'Milo' conjures a quite different image. It's been a staple childhood drink for a couple of generations, officially described as: "a formulated supplementary food drink with 6 essential vitamins and minerals, including iron, calcium and Vitamins A, B1, B2 & C." -- Nestlé's Milo products in Australia -- Plain Powder; Cereal (1) and (2); Ready to Drink
The Philippines version; the Jazzy Yoof site

When the name was originally thought of, one presumes they considered many people would relate it to the ancient Greek athlete, but that would be a small minority now. (Other Milo versions)

So if the M. isn't for Michael, why do we call him Mike? Is there a story there?

Not much of one. My given names come from my grandfathers. Milo's nickname was Mike (I never heard anyone use anything else), and I inherited it.

He owned a restaurant called Mike's Cafe, which will be the name of The Much Spoken Of Website, if and when we ever get it up and running. (As distinct from down and running, which applies to subways, sewers, and worm races.)

David G: "Mike" being the NATO alphabet code for "M", perhaps?

("How many of the readership of Making Light who were at Intersection came by the Scandinavian room parties?", he asked, tangentially.)

cd: are you suggesting that "Mike" might be an International Man of Mystery?

No, but if you call him Milo, we'll all think you're talking about Patrick's nephew.

If it affords me the opportunity to use the name Milo, perhaps I will talk about Patrick's nephew rather more...though since I never met or even heard of this nephew before, that could prove difficult.

I wonder if Milo has read The Phantom Tollbooth?

Xopher - I also think of The Phantom Tollbooth whenever I hear the name Milo.

However, your statement:

Will he kill and dismember us and burn our bodies and make drums of our skin if we call him Milo? I love that name! I have ever since I read The Phantom Tollbooth.

could give anybody who has not read the book a mistaken impression of the plot.

(I accidentally typed The Phantom Toolbooth. Now that sounds interesting. Or maybe it should be The Phantom Toolboth.)

Milo Hayden was in fact named for the character in The Phantom Tollbooth. I've never asked whether he's read the book; I've just assumed he has.

To this day (and likely tomorrow) whenever I hear someone say they are bored I want to throw a copy of The Phantom Tollbooth at them.

"I also think of The Phantom Tollbooth whenever I hear the name Milo."

I guess I'm older or more cynical or something. I immediately think of Milo Minderbinder.

Here in the midwest (whence Mr. Ford hails), "Mike" seems to just means "male child." Everybody is named Mike. Every-frelling-body.

--Mrs. Michael Dell, who does not get free Dell computers

Yeah, but where I specifically grew up, Mayor Richard J. Daley was a Dick.

Wait, something didn't parse right there.

Wait, I thought everyone in Minneapolis was named "David."

I have my own plethora of Davids: a brother, a stepbrother, a brother-in-law, and my oldest friend from high school. Almost every kind of brother.

In California, everybody is named Chris. Okay, maybe only half of everybody.

Phonetic alphabets recently gave me a mildly amusing case of brain freeze. I was ordering toner over the phone, and had to give the copier's serial number:
"MPU 00067. M as in Mary, P as in Paul, U as in...as in...um, something beginning with U." The lady at the other end suggested "umbrella" and then took my order.

(I just looked up the official NATO alphabet, they use "uniform".)

Back in antediluvian days, I lived in a couple of share houses over a few years. One had FOUR tenants named David. Then Andrew (or was it Louis?) moved out and one quite acceptable replacement was yet another David. A handful!

We were split on whether this was a pro or a con. Yes, there would be some awkwardnesses - but not that much more than with four, and, well, there was a certain cachet to the idea of the House of Davids. Unfortunately the effluxion of time has effaced what finally happened from my memory.

Mez - re: your House of Davids --
Once again, Monty Python was there first, with the Philosophy Department sketch. "Is your name not "Bruce"? That's going to cause a bit of confusion."

In my youth, I was in an organization that became infested with "Bobs" -- we had to resolve the ambiguity by assigning modifiers on the basis of seniority. "Bob One", "Bob Two",..., etc.

At my last job, there were only two of us who were not from China or India, and we were both named Michelle. Sometimes we were Michelle K or Michelle S, but often we were Big Michelle or Little Michelle.

I got to be Big Michelle not only because I was almost half a foot taller than the other Michelle, but because I was taller than almost everyone else in the lab.

I miss being taller than everybody else.

Not long ago at my workplace, we had two people with not only the same first name, but the same last name.

The name in question being Kadiatu Mansaray (We lost one Kadiatu Mansaray and got another Kadiatu "Not-Mansaray" instead. I used to wonder if we were the only place West of Sierra Leone where that happened.

It wasn't as much fun when we ended up with Sherry, Sherrie and Sheri.

I've always been very glad to be a Lenora. I have yet to encounter another one in person, much less work with another of matching name.

My company has a Stefan, a Stephan, and until recently a Stephene.

There was just enough overlap between my work and Stephan's to result in a lot of very confusing phone calls. ("You're not the guy who works on scheduled MPEG capture?" "Yes, I am, but I'm not the guy who works on scheduled MPEG capture who was in your office in Einhoven last week. I think I'd remember that.")

We have a Judi, a Judy, another Judy, a Rudy, and a Trudi at my organization, a place with only 30 employees.

Look, how many head of brush has the guy got? (With the time spent clearing it, it's gotta really be kudzu.) And how many Double Super Secret Earle Bergey Space Ranger boxtops do you have to send in to get invited to the branding?

There were two Enoch Huangs in my class at college. Even one seems to exceed the bounds of probability.

Sorry, wrong thread. Some brush got ornery, and I had to shoot it. Well, not personally. Shooting brush is dangerous (splinters, potential mishearing) so other people do the, uh, direct . . . ive . . . ness. I get a daily Dead Brush Briefing, and someone reads that and says, "Yes sir, it's dead" -- well, it's really "last throes," which I think is like, the beepy thing is going BEEEEP, and . . . 'zat woman still out there?

I grew up in a town full of Irish catholics, so "Mary" was as ubiquitous as "Mike." We marys all had to use our first & middle names...I was "Mary Elizabeth," to distinguish me from "Mary Beth," across the street.

There was a girl in my school named "Mary Michael Justice," which has got to be the best catholic-girl name ever.

We had one team a couple of years ago with a Lindsay and a Linsey, two Terrys, two Jameses, a Sarah and a Sara. The only sigletons on the team were Peter and me. However, had I been a boy, I would have been named Peter.

David Goldfarb:

The last time I had to give a serial number over the phone, I said "C as in Charlie, M as in Mary, V as in......VROOOOOM!"

The thing of it is, I still can't think of what to use for V. Van? Vowel? Veritas? ["Veritas as in Harvard..."] Vishnu? Violin would work, I suppose, but isn't satisfying.

Veracity? Violet? Velvet? Voracious?

Bob One: My given name is Seth. At college, I had a work-study job under a supervisor named Seth; we also moved in the same social groups. For purposes of disambiguation, he became "Seth Classic," and I, "New Seth." (And anyone noticeably younger than me will not get that joke.)

Several years later, I joined a local fannish organization (the Stilyagi Air Corps) which contained a Cathy and a Kathy. Sometimes they were designated "Cathy-with-a-C" and "Kathy-with-a-K," but more often "Cathy-who-is-short" and "Kathy-who-is-tall." Another Cathy arrived later and was duly designated "Cathy-who-is-of-moderate-height."

Caroline: NATO uses "Victor"; if you find that aesthetically unsatisfying, I have no particular alternative recommendation.

The last place I worked, another Patrick and I worked on a project with the acronym PAT.

At this job, I work with another Patrick on a project whose acronym, thankfully, is something completely different.

Oh, and in my social circle, we have Little Jo, who is now taller than Big Jo, but still much younger.

My social group used to have Sue One, Sue Two, and Sue Who (semi-unpronounceable last name). I'm 'Mary Aileen' because when I was 11, I knew 7 other people named Mary.

--Mary Aileen

Caroline --

In the NATO phonetic alphabet, V is Victor.

In the older, Hitler's War Allied phonetic alphabet also used Victor, which may tell you just how hard it is to come up with a good word. (If recollection serves, the Royal Navy at one time used Vinegar, which isn't bad, but it's still an extra syllable compared to Victor.)

Pogo: "The secret ingrediment is Dirt! Dirt! D as in Dirt, I as in Dirt, R as in Dirt, T as in Orange Pekoe!"

There's a Jonathan Katz comedy routine where he calls information and asks for someone whose last name is Skogoupoulos (or something). "That's S as in Skogopoulos, K as in Kogopoulos, O as in Ogopoulos, G as in Gopoulos..." And they invariably say "What?" so he gets to repeat it a couple of times.

And back in the late 60s Analog had a counter-intelligence alphabet, with assorted revisions and suggestions by readers, where V was for "Vladivostok". (A is for aesthete, B is for bdellium....)

I put together an anti-phonetic alphabet a few years back: http://www.panix.com/~vr/alphabet.html

Samples: k as in knot, q as in quay, w as in why.

re: names
People wonder why I'm in the habit of calling my husband Jim, "Murray", especially in public/social gathering. I got into it after we joined our local SF club, KaCSFFS, because there were about 10 'Jims that were members. If you wanted a specific one, you had to call the last name....

...And then there are those people who, when being discussed, are almost always referred to using their full names. Not just "George," but "George Smith." I have a couple of friends who fall into this category. Many people have commented on the phenomenon, but none of us have ever found a satisfactory explanation.

Not to mention that I have an "Auntie Mary" and an "Aunt Mary," and woe betide he who confuses them.

In Chester Anderson's hilarious novel The Butterfly Kid, the protagonist (who is high at the time) invents his own phonetic alphabet. We only get to hear four letters, as he gives assignments to units "Toggle-Xylophone" and "Marshmallow-Buggywhip".

Part of the reason I'm always Christopher, never Chris, is that there are just too many Chrises, Krises, Crises (and every one of THOSE is a crisis!) etc. ad blahiam. And half of them are female, which used to be really embarrassing, since I looked like a graceful young woman when I was 14.

And as for key syllables and such things, a friend once told me he knew NOTHING about music, and that if I was going to show him anything I should start on that basis. So I pointed him at the C on my keyboard, played the notes of the scale starting there, and said "You probably know a sequence of nonsense syllables that go with these."

Well, he knew more than that. But he decided to play along, and he played the C and said "Ig." Then played the D and said "Wap." In all, he said "Ig - Wap - Pith - Ku - Lupp - Na - Ing."

I was so delighted by this that I wrote a whole filk putting those syllables to the Sound of Music treatment. Most of the stresses are in the wrong places and it's just awful. I'm very proud of it.

And then there's Dr. Suess's Mrs. McCave, "Who had twenty-three sons and named them all Dave."

I always wanted to be named Zanzibar Buck-Buck McFate.

OK, I tried to post my filk lyric, but it was denied for questionable content. Does Making Light have a Bad Poetry filter? The lyric certainly qualifies, but it has nothing obscene in it, no dirty words, nothing even mildly sexually suggestive. I have no idea why it won't post.

Vicki's anti-phonetic alphabet is making me wonder what happens when phonemes collide with anti-phonemes. [Insert Ellison and/or Zelazny joke here.]

Lenora Rose: Not long ago at my workplace, we had two people with not only the same first name, but the same last name.

When I worked for a Chinese company a few years ago, my CFO, who I mainly reported to, was a woman named Weiping Zhang (aka Madame Zhang, which Avram always thought sounded like a supervillain) while one employee at a subsidiary company on our payroll was a man named Weiping Zhang. I never met Mr. Zhang, so I wasn't confused, but it amused me.

The current discussion makes me gladder than ever that I'm Faren, daughter of Aleta, daughter of Eurilla! (Though I have spent a lifetime saying "Like Karen, but with an F.")

Vicki's anti-phonetic alphabet is making me wonder what happens when phonemes collide with anti-phonemes.

The jargon is the fundamental particle of incomprehensibility. When a jargon and an antijargon collide, they annihilate each other, resulting in the emission of a pair of high-energy grammar rays.

P.S. I have noticed another Aleta on this thread sometimes. I believe that dates back to the fad for a "Queen of the Misty Isles" or such, though it's also a Spanish name.

My family had Big Mike (5'6") and his nephew Little Mike (6'2").

And I did once know a man named Ralph, son of another man named Ralph. They tried the Big Ralph/Little Ralph trick, till Little Ralph (inevitably) grew taller than his dad. Then they went to Father Ralph/Son Ralph.

That worked until Son Ralph had a vocation to the Catholic priesthood.

We have in my family Big Elinor and Little Elinor. They both have brothers named Evan: Big Evan and Little Evan. (The "Littles" are the children of Big Evan.) It's age, not size, that we go by.

I once worked at a place where there were four men named John, in one work area. We used last names to tell them apart: John Keil, Jon Arbulich, John Sellers, John Cooper.

My son Chris (who can sometimes be found at cons under the name Kit Funtastik) had a favorite letter when he was two or three. It was mellowkey, the letter that comes after k. As in h, i, j, k, mellowkey.

Jordin: Thank you.

Faren - I've known two other Farens, and they've both been male (just FYI they never said "rhymes with Karen".)

***

Re: Big/Little, I had a great aunt called Little Flo although she and just-plain-Flo overlapped by only a few years. It's odd that she wasn't called by her middle name instead, as was often the case in my family if given names would create confusion.

For instance, my grandmother was always called Edith, although her full name was Mary Edith and her brother Al (sometimes Albie but he hated that) was John Albert. Little Flo was their eldest sibling.

There was also a Big Harold and a Little Harold (in fact, Big Harold was married to Little Flo, Little Harold was their son) thus perpetuating the abberant Big/Little thing. To add to the confusion, just-plain-Harold was the youngest sibling of my grandmother's (and Little Flo's), so Big/Little did often help in knowing which chunk of the family was being addressed or discussed.

Well, this is a fun tangent.

I continue to answer to almost every variant of Rebecca, with the exceptions of Reba and anyything in reference to Sunnybrook Farm. This makes it awkward when I'm not the only Beca in the room. I remain thankful that it's not as common as, say, Kim. Which is a very nice name, but there's five of them in the fairly small office I work at.

Dr. Jordin Kare:

"The grammar ray is a great weapon. It can mess up people spelling for years, don't put it on to [sic] high though, or else it will make them almost brain dead. Trust me on that, I had personal problem with that."

lgmss
Super Speedster
Posts: 813
Location: In a plane.
Posted: Wed Nov 17, 2004 5:30 pm

As you've observed, on another thread, a good idea is OFTEN thought of by many people. When it's steam engine time...

In the academic/scientific world, it matters who published first. In Science Fiction, it's who published BEST!

Spam from 77.92.88.12

A bunch of drug spam has turned up just as the MCcain lies thread starts talking about drugs. Coincidence? Or enemy action?

... even tho' I knew & admired "Mike" only thru' here.

Something to do with the similar sudden death of my partner, possibly. There's a tender spot, still. I've likened these sudden ambushes of grief to tiger attacks.