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September 28, 2005

Tom DeLay indicted
Posted by Teresa at 02:07 PM *

In Texas, on a charge of criminal conspiracy.

The first-wave stories from the Austin American-Statesman and USA Today are as good as any. See also: the NY Times, LA Times, Washington Post, BBC, and Guardian.

How bad do things look for DeLay? He’s resigned his leadership position. More indictments may follow. Other areas of investigation are opening up. And he’s getting publicly zapped by Rick Santorum and by the Wall Street Journal’s editorial page.*

Here’s a background article the BBC published before the indictment was handed down. Here’s a long chewy one from Mother Jones, originally published last November but swiftly re-posted to their site in the wake of this story.

DeLay, in this as in so many other ways a profoundly stupid human being, has called the indictment “…nothing more than prosecutorial retribution by a partisan Democrat.” We wish him the best of luck with that defense.

Comments on Tom DeLay indicted:
#1 ::: Linkmeister ::: (view all by) ::: September 28, 2005, 02:18 PM:

As Charles Kuffner says at his place, the nice thing is all the descriptive sentences about Delay in the ongoing Abramoff stories "will no longer include the sentence 'DeLay himself has not been charged with any wrongdoing in these matters'. From here on out, it'll be 'DeLay is currently under felony indictment in Travis County for criminal conspiracy'. "

#2 ::: coln roald ::: (view all by) ::: September 28, 2005, 02:21 PM:

The New York Times says:

Mr. DeLay's troubles come at an awkward time for Republicans, as President Bush is sagging in public opinion surveys and as the Senate majority leader, Bill Frist, Republican of Tennessee, has been defending himself against questions about the timing of the sale of stock in a family-owned business.
An awkward *year*, perhaps. We're of course still waiting for the penny to drop in the Plame and Abramoff cases. The Times writes as if this stuff came out of nowhere.

#3 ::: Stefan Jones ::: (view all by) ::: September 28, 2005, 02:21 PM:

How can I keep from singing?

Commentator on NPR says the only way they could have nailed him is if one of the others under indictment fingered him.

I hope that sets a precedent.

#4 ::: amysue ::: (view all by) ::: September 28, 2005, 02:24 PM:

You know, it was shaping up to be a lousy day, home sick with some virus or another, and looking at a trip to the hospital because it's doing icky things to my sugar levels...then I went online and saw that Delay was indicted. It's a start...so maybe the sun will come out.

On the other hand, this is Bush's world we're in and as Josh at Talking Point Memos points out, it appears that all is in readiness for his eventual return.

I know it's a stupid question I'm about to ask and I'll cop out and blame it on the fever and current bg of 49, but when is everyone going to get that this country is being run by crooks, thieves and really nasty people who don't care about anyone, let alone the individuals who collectively make up this country's population?

#5 ::: Xopher (Christopher Hatton) ::: (view all by) ::: September 28, 2005, 02:26 PM:

How can I keep from singing?

Now that's a great way of putting it. The most I could come up with was "WAHOOOOOO!!!!!"

#6 ::: Paula Helm Murray ::: (view all by) ::: September 28, 2005, 02:45 PM:

How 'bout WOOT!

#7 ::: Kathryn Cramer ::: (view all by) ::: September 28, 2005, 02:51 PM:

Yeeehaaw. That's what I said when my agent told me about it in the middle of a business phonecall.

#8 ::: Stefan Jones ::: (view all by) ::: September 28, 2005, 03:05 PM:

Adapted from an old Russian joke about the KGB burning down:

RING RING!

"Hello?"

"Hi, is this the office of House Majority Leader Tom DeLay?"

"Sorry, Congressman DeLay has been indicted and is no longer House Leader."

CLICK!

RING RING!

"Hello?"

"Yes, is this the office of House Majority Leader Tom DeLay?"

"Um, sorry, but Congressman DeLay has been indicted and is no longer House Leader."

CLICK!

RING RING!

"Hello?"

"Hi, is this the office of House Majority Leader Tom DeLay?"

"No, sorry, Mr. DeLay has been indicted and is no longer House Leader."

CLICK!

RING RING!

"Hello?"

"Hi, is this the office of House Majority Leader Tom DeLay?"

"Sorry, Congressman . . . excuse me, but didn't you just call? Weren't you listening when I told you that Tom DeLay has been indicted?"

"Oh, hell yes! I just can't hear it enough times!"

#9 ::: Paula Lieberman ::: (view all by) ::: September 28, 2005, 03:09 PM:

Are the rats starting to bite one another?

For decades James Bulger played the FBI and the US Government for chumps. Three men were sent to Death Row in Massachusetts, where they rotted in jail (the death penalty having been put on hold) until one of them died and for more than thirty years for the two who lived long enough to be exonerated, on false testimony which the FBI -knew- was false, as part of that sordid situation.

Bulger was protected against all investigation for decades, until the day that a long-time Bulger associate who was sent to jail for life by Bulger backstabbing him, decided to get revenge himself and started singing. The fellow in jail for life wasn't doing it in hopes of getting out of prison, that's not going to happen, outside maybe of say hospital visits, the only way's he's getting out of there is feet first. He did it for the revenge, realizing that he'd been sacrificed by Bulger. He literally told the feds where the bodies were that Bulger and his buddy Flemmi had murdered and buried, and literally gotten away with murder for, for decades.

There's even a Bush tie-in: Congress was investigating, or trying to investigate, how it was that the FBI presided over the miscarriage of justice for so long, giving Bulger and Flemmi their license to kill, and how high up the graft and corruption went, and why. The Schmuck, by Executive Order, blocked the FBI records from being available for Congressional access.... I suspect there was some tie-in somewhere to Daddy Bush, what other explanation can there be? A scenario occurred to me which I unfortunately can't remember...

Anyway, the fellow who landed in jail backstabbed by his long-time associate Bulger, was part of what turned the situation with the FBI protecting Bulger, around. A couple more of the pieces were the death of one of the Boston FBI office's corrupt agents

(the state and local law enforcement agencies spent decades being frustrated and suspecting the Boston FBI office of criminal corruption, because they couldn't lay a finger on Bulger, he was tipped off prior to every single operation against organized crime that state and local agencies engaged in, again and again and again. There would be mobsters caught, but Flemmi and Bulger were never there in any roundup, made comments into the hidden mikes that court orders authorized building bugging for, and while it was an open secret that the pair were murderous thugs, they were covered with Teflon regarding anything sticking to them--FBI Teflon as it turned out)

and the retirement of John Connolly.


There are scads of rats regarding the Bush Mob--there's Abramoff, there's that person who was head of acquisition who got arrested last week, there's Brown, etc. etc. etc. David Brock has been a loyal part of the slime & noise machine, until one day he took a really good look in the mirror and got nauseated at what he was seeing.

If there is singing going on, I wonder how vicious former associates are going to start getting? What's the status with the SEC charge against Frist? What about the 82 Airborne Abu Ghraib II copycat situation report? What about the Plame leak investigation? And why is Brown still getting a government paycheck after his total and lethal bungling and his sprinkled with falsehoods resume?

#10 ::: Serge ::: (view all by) ::: September 28, 2005, 03:10 PM:

"Oh, what a beautiful morning,
"Oh, what a beautiful day..."

My various projects are finally moving forward here at the office. And DeLay gets indicted. All this on the 20th anniversary of my wife and I getting together.

Woohoo!!!

#11 ::: Mary Kay ::: (view all by) ::: September 28, 2005, 03:19 PM:

I've already read a couple of cases of other Rs badmouthing DeLay. Most of them are still afraid to be too clear right now, but if it looks as if he really will be convicted, well, he who lives by the hammer dies by the hammer. He's been completely vicious and ruthless in his dealings with his peers in Congress and payback should be a bitch.

If they convict him, and indict and convict Frist and Rove I may have to reconsider my atheism.

MKK

#12 ::: amysue ::: (view all by) ::: September 28, 2005, 03:20 PM:

Ah, but wait-the American Spectator has their own take on this sad state of affairs. Oy vey.

#13 ::: Meredith ::: (view all by) ::: September 28, 2005, 03:33 PM:

This is great and all, but why is part of me expecting DeLay to get nominated for the Supreme Court now?

#14 ::: Xopher (Christopher Hatton) ::: (view all by) ::: September 28, 2005, 03:35 PM:

If there is singing going on

I sure hope there is. And I hope that Dubya will be among those who get singed!

Crackle, crackle. Hee hee hee.

#15 ::: Nancy C ::: (view all by) ::: September 28, 2005, 03:38 PM:

Meredith, I took a quick look at that American Spectator link, and when I saw the headline, I thought "Rove turning on Delay?"

#16 ::: Beth Meacham ::: (view all by) ::: September 28, 2005, 03:44 PM:

current bg of 49

Um, amysue, I hope you're doing all the usual things to get it back up again? I'm surprised you can type.

As for Tom Delay, all I can say is that it's about time. Have a margarita to Juanita's Place.

#17 ::: hrc ::: (view all by) ::: September 28, 2005, 03:48 PM:

I was trudging into the office at noon after interviewing prospective new hires for 4 hours and a normally taciturn paralegal saw me in the lobby and veered out of his usual path to tell me that Delay had been indicted.

My reaction was, "Finally popped the pimple did they?"

#18 ::: Tim Pratt ::: (view all by) ::: September 28, 2005, 03:52 PM:

I'm getting married on Saturday, and it's like the universe decided to give me a wonderful wedding present.

#19 ::: Lin Daniel ::: (view all by) ::: September 28, 2005, 04:01 PM:

From the American Spectator article:

Texas Democratic Party sent the Democratic National Committee (DNC) $75,000, and on the same day, the DNC sent the Texas Democratic Party $75,000.

Yo! A political party group sends money to a political party group, which in turn sends it back to the first (and thus the very same) political party group. I'm sure there were reasons not apparent to the eye, but it's no more illegal than writing a check to yourself. The indictments are over corporations sending money to a political party group, which then sends the exact same amount to candidates. If the middleman was eliminated, the action would be illegal.

And I don't want Delay to resign from Congress. The Shrub has offered to stand shoulder-to-shoulder with DeLay (so sayeth the Shrub, as reported by CNN). You can't have cascading falling dominos if one or more of them are removed. Stay, DeLay! Stay!

#20 ::: Paula Lieberman ::: (view all by) ::: September 28, 2005, 04:04 PM:

The good news: DeLay has been indicted.

The bad news:

Indictment != conviction.

DeLay is still in Congress. The delicate wording I am seeing from the mainstream news media on-line is terminology like DeLay temporarily stepping aside as House Majority Leader.

That reminds me, what has Trent Lott been doing lately? He's still in the Senate. Oh, he wasn't indicted, it wasn't alleged criminal activity, it was someone totally lacking in tact and sensitivity and decency he said/did that got him demoted from Senate Majority Leader, was it not?

And what about Rick Santorum, any slimy underhanded illegal things around that he's been associated with, as opposed to merely vicious, nasty, mean-spirited, bigoted, misogynist, intolerant, stupid, etc.?

Santorum has turned on DeLay? If so, I hope DeLay has something on her and bites back, with something to get Santorum off the government dole forevermore.

#21 ::: P J Evans ::: (view all by) ::: September 28, 2005, 04:06 PM:

What I'd like to know (and this goes back several years) is, was Tom DeLay the one who talked the rancher from Springlake/Earth into asking for donations in the amount of $49.95, when running against Pete Laney? (The rancher lost both times he ran, by large margins. Laney was - and is - a respected Democrat, and won re-election even after his district got gerrymandered to Snyder and back.)

#22 ::: Tim Kyger ::: (view all by) ::: September 28, 2005, 04:08 PM:

You all know what this means, don't you?

The President is now free to nominate DeLay as the next Supreme Court Justice..!

(ducks and runs for cover)

#23 ::: Terry Karney ::: (view all by) ::: September 28, 2005, 04:08 PM:

I want DeLay to fight. I want this to be all over the news. I want it to have effect during the mid-terms.

I sort of wish the Delay Rule was still around so we could beat him (and them) up with it.

But every time I read someone sharing the good news I have to smile.

TK

#24 ::: Paula Lieberman ::: (view all by) ::: September 28, 2005, 04:09 PM:

When I was in college all those years ago, one of my dormmates had made himself a wallchart org chart full of Executive Branch faces, and was putting Xs marching up from the bottom as the indictments hit for Nixon Administration officials and moved upward.

I haven't been in contact with him in years. His current occupation is climate modeling at a national laboratory, I googled on his name during the summer and noticed that his name is on various global warming papers as the person who did the computer modeling.

I wonder if he has a Bush Misadministration wall chart....

#25 ::: Paula Lieberman ::: (view all by) ::: September 28, 2005, 04:13 PM:

Tim, are you auditioning for the part of the Fool to Feed the Drive??! The idiot mess (or what looks like an idiot mess to me... makes that old B-36 with its mix of props and jet engines and the parasitic fighter on a hard point carried along for protection, at the Air Force Museum look like a clean original integral design....) that NASA's proposed for a launch system....

#26 ::: Skwid ::: (view all by) ::: September 28, 2005, 04:14 PM:

Paula Helm Murray, "WOOT!" was, in fact, precisely my reaction. My coworkers could confirm, even.

This managed to displace the Giant Squid photos as the coolest thing I saw this morning.

#27 ::: Nina K ::: (view all by) ::: September 28, 2005, 04:14 PM:

Ronnie Earle is NOT a partisan Democrat. He's prosecuted just as many high-profile Dems as Repugs, including the Speaker of the Texas House.

And the indictments were returned by a Texas grand jury, who you can bet had at least a few Reps on the panel.

Don't fall for the spin.

#28 ::: j h woodyatt ::: (view all by) ::: September 28, 2005, 04:15 PM:

amysue writes: when is everyone going to get that this country is being run by crooks, thieves and really nasty people...?

I prefer to live in the happy delusion that everybody already gets this, and that anyone currently pretending not to believe it is either one of the crooks or trying to become one.

#29 ::: Teresa Nielsen Hayden ::: (view all by) ::: September 28, 2005, 04:17 PM:

Paula, I assume you're speaking Air Force to Tim. Just reassure me that whatever you're saying to him is acceptably civil.

#30 ::: Lin Daniel ::: (view all by) ::: September 28, 2005, 04:18 PM:

Don't fall for the spin

And don't fall for the "they do it, TOO!" My mother didn't let me get away with that. I bet The American Spectator's article author's mom didn't let him/her/it get away with it either.

#31 ::: Teresa Nielsen Hayden ::: (view all by) ::: September 28, 2005, 04:19 PM:

That's some wild spin in the Spectator. They must be worried.

#32 ::: Manon ::: (view all by) ::: September 28, 2005, 04:22 PM:

And hes getting publicly zapped by Rick Santorum

Hee! If anything could give me respect for DeLay, that'd be it. But it's a bit late.

#33 ::: Tim Kyger ::: (view all by) ::: September 28, 2005, 04:30 PM:

Teresa, Paula's being civil. She's *right* about the New, Improved Apollo 2.0! (coming soon to an Moon near you!) Forward Into The Past!

But I don't see what that has to do with Tom DeLay...oh, wait a second. He's been the big guy in the House pushing the Bush Space Agenda big time.

Look, there's nothing inherently *wrong* with the so-called "Vision for Space Exploration" (or "VSE" -- ya gotta have a TLA in this biz) EXCEPT that Bush and Company thought that by giving it to the agency in the federal government that *does civil space* -- NASA -- that it meant that it would then get carried out in some non-brain dead fashion.

This is a mistake that every President since Eisenhower has made.

And hey, hey, hey there Paula! I grew up going to and from school in buses past the construction effort for the Air Force Museum at Wright-Patt. I was even thrown off the base during its dedication ceremony. It was Nixon speaking, and I had long hair ya see...

And what have you got against the venerable B-36 anyway? It is a *bee-you-tiful* airplane, IMHO. Just gear-fab to bits. Let's not insult it by comparing it to any NASA program, OK?! grin

We now return you to the actual subject of this particular comment thread...

#34 ::: amysue ::: (view all by) ::: September 28, 2005, 04:53 PM:

Y'know being home sick and surfing around online you turn up the darndest things. Like "Tom's" own biography on his official website. Interestingly, no mention or spin yet on his current troubles.

#35 ::: Madeleine Robins ::: (view all by) ::: September 28, 2005, 05:04 PM:

I try to avoid schadenfreude (hell, I can't even reliably spell schadenfreude) but this is too sweet. The older child and I are dancing around in the kitchen singing.

I suppose it's too much to hope that he'll be convicted and spend his golden years mucking out trenches in Louisiana or something.

#36 ::: Stefan Jones ::: (view all by) ::: September 28, 2005, 05:04 PM:

Spotted on The Agonist:

Donald Rumsfeld was giving president Bush his daily briefing. He concludes by saying, "Yesterday, 3 Brazilian soldiers were killed in an accident."

"Oh no!" the President exclaims. "That's terrible!"

His staff sits stunned at this display of emotion, nervously watching as the president sits, head in hands.

Finally, Bush looks up and asks, "How many is a brazillion ?"

#37 ::: Lin Daniel ::: (view all by) ::: September 28, 2005, 05:17 PM:

According to a legal analyst on CNN, it is very difficult to bring a conspiracy charge without an insider bringing testimony. Well, well.

#38 ::: Paula Lieberman ::: (view all by) ::: September 28, 2005, 05:17 PM:

I was speaking filk, and sarcasm.

Tim's involved in space politics. The space launch system that NASA wants built to me looks like a worst-of-breed-bad-mix-of-everything-done-before. It violates to me all sorts of principles of reasonable design, and seems even less likely to get off the ground than the past 30 years of misconceived-failure shuttle follow-on programs. It's got a complicated mix of incompatible engines, the liquid fueled ones would require I assume liquid oxygen (I was avoiding reading too much about it because I figured I would only get annoyed) and hydrogen [went to NASA's website, and it does], which get produce from--water.

There's a filksong with the title, Fuel to Feed the Drive which spawned many parodies. In the original there is a spaceship and it's out traveling in space, and will continue to do so "As long as we are granted, fuel to feed the drive." One of the parodies is Fool to Feed the Drive, in which "the engineer McQuillen, forgot to feed the drive" and they're running out of full, but "two hundred pounds of water [as in Jamis in Dune rendered into H20], will feed our dying drive" and they can keep going "As long as we are granted a fool to feed the drive!"

Given NASA's track record with attended space launch development the past 30 years (the shuttle was late, way overbudget, two orbiters and their crews destroyed, and there isn't anything flying to replace it and nothing that can even put people into high orbit, much less get to people to the Moon or beyond), I expect that if this latest concept doesn't get shotdown by Congress for funding and goes forward into a research and development stage, it's likely to virtually chew up people's careers and get terminated before it makes one flight with people on-board.

I hope that Tim isn't one of the people who gets ground up and fed through the process. His comment about nominating DeLay for the Supreme Court...

NASA bunglings have little to do directly with the Supreme Court. Congress is involved in NASA programs, it determines what programs NASA gets to start and continue forward with. DeLay is still in Congress for now, though not currently the Majority Leader anymore. So long as he's in Congress he has a say in the federal budget, and NASA's funding and programs.

Getting involved with politics regarding Supreme Court nominees, gets into the nasty politics department. Tim was making a snarky remark, it elicited a snarky remark beck from me.

Hmm, maybe DeLay could be rendered for the water, and lubricants.

#39 ::: Xopher (Christopher Hatton) ::: (view all by) ::: September 28, 2005, 05:52 PM:

"Vision for Space Exploration" (or "VSE" -- ya gotta have a TLA in this biz)

Hmm...when I see VSE I think "Very Special Episode" - when a cheap sitcom does an ep with an Important Social Message™, as opposed to trying to be funny. They really do call them VSEs in the biz, as in "Teen suicide? Yeah, we could do a VSE on that."

#40 ::: Lois Fundis ::: (view all by) ::: September 28, 2005, 06:10 PM:

How can I keep from singing?

Tom DeLay is a rat,
Is a big rat.
He's an exterminator
And now Tom will know how it feels.

(to the tune of the old "Daniel Boone" TV series theme)

#41 ::: Lizzy Lynn ::: (view all by) ::: September 28, 2005, 06:23 PM:

Wahoo! Does it for me.

Spent the morning hassling with bad-tempered doctors, pharmacies, bureaucrats (Mom in hospital, getting out today, lots of red tape and bullshit.) Heard the news as I drove home to eat lunch at 3 pm. Big grin. You go, Ronnie Earle. Haven't read the Spectator yet, though.

#42 ::: Jim Kiley ::: (view all by) ::: September 28, 2005, 06:25 PM:

For a good perspective on Ronnie Earle, make sure to check Molly Ivins' book Bushwhacked. Ivins' book is great in general, but she spends time saying good things about Ronnie Earle in particular.

#43 ::: P J Evans ::: (view all by) ::: September 28, 2005, 06:30 PM:

Ronnie Earl once turned himself in for violating a reporting law, and paid his own fine. (There was a report that was a day late getting turned in.) You have to look up to an elected official who will do that, especially when there are folks like DeLay (and Brown) who spend hours coming up with excuses for not doing the right thing.

#44 ::: Lizzy Lynn ::: (view all by) ::: September 28, 2005, 06:31 PM:

amysue -- I just read the American Spectator article. This is typical spin and we can expect to hear lots of it in the days to come. Someone quoted Earle's response to the charge that he's going after DeLay for partisan reasons; the response pointed out that he's indicted many more Democrats on corruption charges than Republicans. (I think the numbers were 20 to 3.)

Also heard a recent comment to the point that it took the Democrats 40 years of running Washington to get thoroughly corrupt. The Republicans have done it in 10.

#45 ::: Josh Jasper ::: (view all by) ::: September 28, 2005, 07:17 PM:

If he's convicted, can we use him as bait for a giant squid?

Just sayin'

#46 ::: Stefan Jones ::: (view all by) ::: September 28, 2005, 07:31 PM:

That would be cruel, Josh.

All the pesticides the Hammer has absorbed through the years would probably kill the poor squid.

#47 ::: Linkmeister ::: (view all by) ::: September 28, 2005, 07:36 PM:

Josh, what you got against squid?

#48 ::: Bill Higgins-- Beam Jockey ::: (view all by) ::: September 28, 2005, 07:40 PM:

Paula writes:
One of the parodies is Fool to Feed the Drive,[...]

The author of which is a frequent visitor to this blog, and the husband of Mary Kay.

#49 ::: Claude Muncey ::: (view all by) ::: September 28, 2005, 07:51 PM:

As has been noted in various places, a good chunk of the credit for this goes to Citizens for Responsibility and Ethics in Washington (CREW), which has worked hard to keep this case from dropping off the radar. They rolled out (today I think) their Beyond Delay list of the 13 most corrupt members of Congress. While the list is bipartisan, it includes both Senate Majority Leader Frist, and DeLay's replacement, Roy Blunt of Missouri.

#50 ::: Michael Turyn ::: (view all by) ::: September 28, 2005, 07:58 PM:

I have no doubt that partisan feeling played some part in Earl's pursuing this matter as hard as he did, and that's fine.

We need systems that work well with men and women, not angels, and people can be well motivated by personal and partisan feeling. As long as they stick to the facts, and don't give their friends anything like a free pass, the actual persons who try to keep the powerful in line need all the help they can get, including that extra boost that animus can bring.

Of course, like many good things (aspirin, ephedra, socialism, self-interest) "a little too much" can shade seamlessly into "a very bad idea".

#51 ::: Josh Jasper ::: (view all by) ::: September 28, 2005, 09:10 PM:

It'd be worth one squid's life in entertainment value alone.

#52 ::: Madeleine Robins ::: (view all by) ::: September 28, 2005, 09:23 PM:

I doubt the squid would be entertained. And giant squid are rare. Corrupt politicians are a drug on the market.

#53 ::: Lin Daniel ::: (view all by) ::: September 28, 2005, 09:44 PM:

Corrupt politicians are a drug on the market.

Does this mean they would come under the jurisdiction of the FDA?

#54 ::: Paula Lieberman ::: (view all by) ::: September 28, 2005, 10:33 PM:

Giant squid may or may not be rare, theyr'e rare for people to see, but there's a lot of ocean on the planet. If only DeLay and Santorum and Bush and their ilk were similarly not present....

#55 ::: hrc ::: (view all by) ::: September 28, 2005, 10:34 PM:

Looks like the replacement for delay is a carbon copy:
Blunt

#56 ::: P J Evans ::: (view all by) ::: September 28, 2005, 11:03 PM:

Yes, Blunt is high up on the 'After DeLay' list.

(Maxine Waters, also on the list, is pretty small potatoes compared with Blunt, Cunningham, and Frist. She doesn't seem to have done nearly as much as any one of them, and the improper benefits are fairly small also.)

#57 ::: Lizzy Lynn ::: (view all by) ::: September 28, 2005, 11:53 PM:

I want to sit on Trent Lott's porch and watch Tom DeLay being devoured by a giant squid.

Please? Pretty please?

#58 ::: Erin Kissane ::: (view all by) ::: September 29, 2005, 12:39 AM:

Good call, Stefan. For those who haven't heard the song recently, may I suggest this verse:

When tyrants tremble in their fear
and hear their death knell ringing,
when friends rejoice both far and near
how can I keep from singing?

#59 ::: jim ::: (view all by) ::: September 29, 2005, 07:50 AM:

Yes. It's good news. But I'll hold my cheers until he's convicted.

#60 ::: Dave Bell ::: (view all by) ::: September 29, 2005, 07:59 AM:

Led off in chains, surely?

It seems to be the American style, disconcerting though it may seem.

#61 ::: Doug ::: (view all by) ::: September 29, 2005, 08:01 AM:

Here's what Ronnie Earle wrote in the NY Times the first time the "partisan Democrat prosecutor" meme went around:

The thinly veiled personal attacks on me by Mr. DeLay's supporters in this case are no different from those in the cases of any of the 15 elected officials this office has prosecuted in my 27-year tenure. Most of these officials - 12 Democrats and three Republicans - have accused me of having political motives. What else are they going to say?

#62 ::: Doug ::: (view all by) ::: September 29, 2005, 08:09 AM:

And the song I have been singing is "Happy Days Are Here Again."

#63 ::: rea ::: (view all by) ::: September 29, 2005, 08:28 AM:

"And the song I have been singing is "Happy Days Are Here Again."

Me, I've been singing "Ding dong, the witch is dead" . . .

#64 ::: hrc ::: (view all by) ::: September 29, 2005, 08:41 AM:

Here's a story running under the radar that illustrates just why the Repubs are the lockstep party of 'family values' that they are today:

Rep. Dreier bid declined because of sexual politics

#65 ::: P J Evans ::: (view all by) ::: September 29, 2005, 08:53 AM:

just why the Repubs are the lockstep party of 'family values' that they are today

Mary Kay LeTourneau was from a very conservative Republican family. If they want to go for 'family values', they need to look at the families they have, not the myth they're pushing. (No one in LA has been talking publicly about Dreier's orientation: it's really under the radar.)

#66 ::: Dave Bell ::: (view all by) ::: September 29, 2005, 09:08 AM:

There's still going to be a lot of poeple who will fall for the lies. They just won't want to believe that there are crooks running the country.

#67 ::: P J Evans ::: (view all by) ::: September 29, 2005, 09:17 AM:

Personal estimate of hardcore Republican count: about 20 percent of the US population.

This is the percentage that (1) agree with Brown that he was doing the best he could at FEMA and (2) disagree that DeLay should resign (based on CNN polls).

#68 ::: Stephanie ::: (view all by) ::: September 29, 2005, 10:01 AM:

I want to sit on Trent Lott's porch and watch Tom DeLay being devoured by a giant squid.

Hee!

And yes.

#69 ::: Skwid ::: (view all by) ::: September 29, 2005, 10:45 AM:

PJ, there's some selection bias, there. Your truly hardest of the hardcore wouldn't go near enough to the "Communist News Network" to participate in a poll.

They prefer their news "Fair and Balanced..."

#70 ::: Madeleine Reardon Dimond ::: (view all by) ::: September 29, 2005, 10:53 AM:

And in Texas, I and a bunch of perfect strangers danced a boogey-type conga line in Pizza Hut when the news came on TV. The real thrill is that 12 or so honest people exist. I was beginning to doubt. Down here, the Bugman got power.

#71 ::: P J Evans ::: (view all by) ::: September 29, 2005, 11:08 AM:

Skwid: I don't doubt that bias. Of course, I was looking at the on-line poll; some of the hard-core members probably couldn't find the on-switch without a map and a native guide.

#72 ::: Tim Kyger ::: (view all by) ::: September 29, 2005, 11:53 AM:

And now, for a Very Special Posting:

Xopher wrote:
"They really do call them VSEs in the biz, as in "Teen suicide?""

Yes, it's all true. There was a memo promulgated throughout ALL of NASA in roughly (IIRC) March 2004 that said (more or less), "the name of this program is The Vision for Space Exploration, and we will all call it that, and we will all call it that *with* the Capital Letters, both in speech and in writing. In lieu of that, we may all refer to in in speech and in writing as the VSE."

I am not making this up. You could, if you wanted to, dig through the archives on NASA Watch and find the copy of the memo; it was posted on that web site and that's where I first heard about it.

It is now endemic as a phrase throughout the so-called space industry (the Aerospace Nomenklatura).

And Paula -- it wasn't supposed to be a *snarky* remark, it was supposed to be a *joke*.

Geez, when ya have to explain 'em, I guess it's time to realize that one isn't very funny...

#73 ::: Mike ::: (view all by) ::: September 29, 2005, 11:58 AM:

I just got an email from Mrs DeLay offering me 10% for sending her my account to deposit her family's fortune.

#74 ::: Paula Lieberman ::: (view all by) ::: September 29, 2005, 12:48 PM:

[What?!

"Your comment submission failed for the following reasons:

"Your comment was denied for questionable content.

"Please correct the error in the form below, then press POST to post your comment."

============================


Corr*pt politicians are a dr*g on the market.

Does this mean they would come under the jurisdiction of the FDA?

Not, it means that the FDA's been taken over by the corr*pt politicians. Nightline Tuesday night focused on that...

#75 ::: Becky ::: (view all by) ::: September 29, 2005, 01:21 PM:

Ronnie Earl once turned himself in for violating a reporting law, and paid his own fine. (There was a report that was a day late getting turned in.)

P.J., is there any chance you have a source for that, or a link? That's a great story, and worth spreading around.

#76 ::: Dan Lewis ::: (view all by) ::: September 29, 2005, 01:37 PM:

Here's another 20% Bushhead poll, this time from AP:

http://edition.cnn.com/2005/POLITICS/09/29/rumsfeld.ap/index.html

"An AP-Ipsos poll this month showed only 37 percent approved or leaned toward approval of how Bush has handled the situation in Iraq. The percentage who disapproved strongly outweighed those who approved strongly by 46 percent to 22 percent."

Then this is a profile of Ronnie Earle that talks about the time he turned himself in:

http://www.csmonitor.com/2004/1203/p01s04-usgn.html


It begins: "Justice of the Peace Guy Herman was sitting in his office one day when a prosecutor walked in to file charges for improper campaign-finance reporting. Against himself.

The man was Ronnie Earle, the Travis County district attorney, bringing a self-incriminating complaint for tardy reporting in 1981 and 1982.

He had missed the deadline by a day," says Mr. Herman, now a Travis County probate judge. "He could have filed that report late and nobody would have paid any attention. But instead he came in and said, 'I violated the law and should be fined.' So I fined him."

$212 to be exact.

Herman says it offered his first glimpse into how seriously Mr. Earle takes the integrity of the political system. It would not be his last."

#77 ::: Terry Karney ::: (view all by) ::: September 29, 2005, 01:47 PM:

Paula: Reports from cetologists imply that giant squid are suffering. It seems the squid lay egg packets on the sea-bottom and dredge-trawling is destroying them.

Sperm whales (which feed on them) are washing ashore, mostly starved.

TK

#78 ::: Erik Nelson ::: (view all by) ::: September 29, 2005, 01:48 PM:

Vision for Space Exploration?

In the light of the Hubble Telescope thing, I propose a slogan for NASA:

Our focus is beyond infinity.

#79 ::: Terry Karney ::: (view all by) ::: September 29, 2005, 01:49 PM:

PJ, I was in his district, and for all that people say it's an open secret I found out from a link to Wonkette.

TK

#80 ::: sennoma ::: (view all by) ::: September 29, 2005, 01:56 PM:

*sings*
*dances*
*carouses*

Nothing substantive to add, just can't contain my glee.

*sings*
*etc*

#81 ::: Neil Rest ::: (view all by) ::: September 29, 2005, 02:30 PM:

About NASA . . .
Bug Man grabbed it in the Great Texas Gerrymander (per http://www.thenation.com/docprem.mhtml?i=20050509&s=corn)

#82 ::: Lisa Goldstein ::: (view all by) ::: September 29, 2005, 05:09 PM:

How can I keep from singing?

If I had a Hammer
I'd hand him an indictment
I'd ask him where the cash went
When he took the stand ...

#83 ::: Claude Muncey ::: (view all by) ::: September 29, 2005, 08:58 PM:

And now for Act III . . .

Word is just out that Judith Miller just got out of jail today, and will be testifying before the grand jury tomorrow. Apparently she called Scooter Libby and got the same "release" that he has been offering for the past year, but chose take it this time.

It may not work out well, but just for a moment I am contemplating the trifecta . . .

#84 ::: James D. Macdonald ::: (view all by) ::: September 29, 2005, 09:20 PM:

An interesting opinion with supporting detail, arguing that DeLay will plead nolo contendere.

Why would his attorney advise him to waive the statute of limitations on a charge when the statute of limitations had already run out? The only logical answer is that there were far more serious charges with a much longer (or no) statute of limitations and he was entering into a plea bargain.
#85 ::: Lizzy Lynn ::: (view all by) ::: September 30, 2005, 12:20 AM:

Assuming for the moment that DeLay is going to lose his job -- any guesses as to who will take his place? Blunt?

#86 ::: Paula Lieberman ::: (view all by) ::: September 30, 2005, 01:33 AM:

Might charges of obstruction of justice be appropriate?

#87 ::: Xopher (Christopher Hatton) ::: (view all by) ::: September 30, 2005, 08:02 AM:

Me, I've been singing "Ding dong, the witch is dead" . . .

Heeeeeyyyyyyyy!!!! </frowny face> Kidding!

#88 ::: Dave Bell ::: (view all by) ::: September 30, 2005, 09:43 AM:

[Looks at the NASA sub-thread]

Can we assume the Galaxy Quest jokes?

Though, if I recall the names right, I wouldn't be astonished if there were a few little pokes at NASA in that movie.

#89 ::: Lucy Kemnitzer ::: (view all by) ::: September 30, 2005, 10:53 AM:

Xopher, surely you're the Good Witch of the, um, Northeast?

#90 ::: Stefan Jones ::: (view all by) ::: September 30, 2005, 12:38 PM:

DeLay indicted. Bennet self-destructs. White House official about to take a fall.

The only thing that could make this week complete:

Security video footage of Karl Rove checking into a cheap hotel room with an understandably nervous alpaca.

#91 ::: Xopher (Christopher Hatton) ::: (view all by) ::: September 30, 2005, 12:58 PM:

Lucy, not only good...excellent.

#92 ::: Paula Lieberman ::: (view all by) ::: September 30, 2005, 01:04 PM:

Stefan, what do you have against alpacas? While they might spit at Karl Rove * they haven't done anything to deserve his company! They have thick soft fur, can be used as pack animals, I haven't heard any comments about them biting, etc.

DeLay's still only under indictment. Nothing material has happened so far to either Rove or Scooter Libby, alleged to have announced Valerie Plame as a CIA operative to the just-let-out-of-jail reporter, neither is even on administrative leave, much less fired for malfeasance, and their bosses haven't said one word critical of them despite the allegations. Their bosses I presume are involved so deep Wood's Hole Oceanographic Institute's Alvin would have trouble getting down there....


* there is a brochure about alpacas an investment, there was a slight revision in it one year from the previous year, the previous yerar's verions of the brocure said as what essentially was a FAQ question response to the question about alpacas spitting: the change was from something like "~alpacas spit at other alpacas in dominance disputes and not at humans~" to "~alpacas spit at other alpacas in dominance disputes and they rarely spit at humans~"

#93 ::: Clifton Royston ::: (view all by) ::: September 30, 2005, 01:05 PM:

For those who haven't seen it yet, the Plame outing was Rove and "Scooter" Libby, working the press together.

Miller just testified; moreover she now looks even more like a bozo because Libby's lawyer says he gave her lawyer a release to disclose Libby's identity a year ago.

Why, oh why, couldn't all of this have happened one year earlier, and we could have had that cretin out of office by now?

#94 ::: P J Evans ::: (view all by) ::: September 30, 2005, 01:17 PM:

Tate [Libby's lawyer] said Libby signed a waiver of confidentiality more than a year ago, which Tate followed with a phone call to New York Times attorney Floyd Abrams assuring him that Libby's waiver was voluntary.

Over the Labor Day weekend, Miller's attorney, Robert Bennett, tracked Tate down in Martha's Vineyard to tell him she had not accepted the waiver as valid because "it came from lawyers."

"I assured Bennett that it was voluntary, and he asked, 'Would Scooter say that to Judy?' And I said, 'Scooter doesn't want to see Judy in jail,'" Tate said.

"My reaction was, why didn't someone call us 80 days ago?" he said of his conversation with Bennett.

As far as Libby's lawyer getting a waiver: couldn't he have called Miller's lawyer directly instead of going through a third party? Am I missing something in this? I can see letting the publisher's lawyer know, but the publisher wasn't the one who was going to jail in this. (Not to mention that we seem to have only Tate's word on the timing.)

#95 ::: Stefan Jones ::: (view all by) ::: September 30, 2005, 01:19 PM:

I chose "alpaca" because it sounded funny.

I considered "a jug of Karo syrup, a rubber sheet, and a cage of chinchillas," but instead went for brevity.

My sincere apologies to the Alpaca Anti-Defamation Association.

#96 ::: Paula Lieberman ::: (view all by) ::: September 30, 2005, 01:28 PM:

Something is not rotten in the state of Denmark, Denmark is much too small a country.

I don't smell one rat, there are turds left from dozens, including the ones in the US Congress who have resisted appointing an independent prosecutor to look into the ocean-wide trail of Bush Misadministration malfeasance. The Republicraps with amazing party discipline have consistently resisted acceding the all evidence and allegation of plague rats infesting the ship, rat turds and tracks and stink everywhere and they adamantly insist there anyone claiming to have seen a rat or rodent turd, is delusional and proceed to accuse the person of insanity and unreliability and lying.

#97 ::: Laura Roberts ::: (view all by) ::: September 30, 2005, 01:28 PM:

Stefan:

People for the Ethical Treatment of Chinchillas will now be lodging a stern protest.

#98 ::: P J Evans ::: (view all by) ::: September 30, 2005, 01:31 PM:

Stefan: I understand that chinchillas are not particularly nice critters - they are, IIRC, related to minks and weasels, which would make them entirely appropriate companions for Rove - but the Karo syrup does seem like cruelty to animals. (Unless Rove was planning to drink it himself.)

#99 ::: Paula Lieberman ::: (view all by) ::: September 30, 2005, 01:32 PM:

How about a cage of capybaras, the world's largest rodent, or chupacabras which it is claimed don't exist, or wolverines... creatures that might have dispositions similar to Rove's. (I might be maligning capybaras, but then again they are rodents. Hmm, what about a cageful of rabid squirrels?

#100 ::: Peter ::: (view all by) ::: September 30, 2005, 01:37 PM:

"Rep. Dreier bid declined because of sexual politics"
No. His bid was declined because his significant other is working in the same office to the tune of $156k/year. It is against the rules for his wife or mistress to do so, and it should be equally against the rules for his boyfriend to do so.

New Jersey Democratic Governor Jim McGreevey was recently forced to resign when it was about to become public that he had put his boyfriend on the public payroll at a salary slightly less than the one which Dreier pays Smith.
The real beef of the issue

#101 ::: Stefan Jones ::: (view all by) ::: September 30, 2005, 01:39 PM:

I don't know much about chinchillas, other that that they were the bare-bones 1950s equivalent of alpacas, bred by Popular Mechanics readers hoping to get rich quick.

In any case, my choice of chinchillas was just for the humor value of their name.

The purpose of the Karo is is left up to the imagination of the reader. "Tub of buttered okra" was another possibility, but again . . . brevity.

#102 ::: Laura Roberts ::: (view all by) ::: September 30, 2005, 01:45 PM:

I've heard that squirrels can't get rabies. Possibly I've heard that no rodent can catch rabies.

How about a giant squid?

#103 ::: P J Evans ::: (view all by) ::: September 30, 2005, 01:47 PM:

Stefan: "Tub of buttered okra" would be entirely appropriate for someone slimy from Texas. It's really pretty as a plant (mallow family, along with cotton, and similar climate/water needs), but as a food it isn't high on my list. I'd rather eat broccoli or brussels sprouts!

(There was a wanna-be chinchilla grower near my parents' mountain cabin; they went broke fairly quickly.)

#104 ::: fidelio ::: (view all by) ::: September 30, 2005, 02:15 PM:

Buttered okra? There's not enough cornbread between the Ohio River and the Rio Grande to sop up that mass of, er, pot likker facsimile. Okra either needs to be fried, with the batter serving to stabilize its tendencies, or else used in gumbo where those tendencies can be put to constructive use. I've heard pickling helps, too, but I've never felt the slightest urge to find out. Boiled okra--oog.

#105 ::: SamChevre ::: (view all by) ::: September 30, 2005, 03:22 PM:

I'll save my singing and dancing until he's *convicted*. As the saying is, "Any competent prosecutor could get the average grand jury to indict a ham sandwich."

And I'm very wary of the "prosecuted Democrats=non-partisan" meme. If one of the Daily Kos posters indicted Lieberman, I wouldn't take that as evidence of non-partisanship.

#106 ::: Xopher (Christopher Hatton) ::: (view all by) ::: September 30, 2005, 04:19 PM:

fidelio, it's also good in a spicy Indian sauce.

I think the right solution for Delay (with some good symbolism if you think about it) would be to lock him naked in a cageful of starving minks.

No cruelty issue: I'm assured by folks familiar with their habits that minks are so vile that they deserve to be raised and killed for their fur.

Sounds like Delay should fit right in.

#107 ::: Seth Breidbart ::: (view all by) ::: September 30, 2005, 05:38 PM:

P J Evans, I have to agree that Brown was doing the best he could.

I'm not saying a giant squid wouldn't have done better.

#108 ::: P J Evans ::: (view all by) ::: September 30, 2005, 05:45 PM:

Seth: Of course the giant squid would do better: look how many more arms it has! (I won't say it might have better excuses for not doing its job well.)

#109 ::: CHip ::: (view all by) ::: September 30, 2005, 06:05 PM:

More confusion on the Dreier bid: On Point (WBUR (Boston NPR) talk show, some syndication?) last night claimed that Dreier was Delay's choice as a seatwarmer, but Blunt was moved up as the obvious successor and everyone else will move up with him, leaving Delay to take bottom chair (at most) if he manages to stay in Congress. Not clear this is accurate -- I've also seen reports that Blunt's output still says "Majority Whip", not "Majority Leader" -- but watching the paddling-in-all-directions can be fun.

Paula: last I heard, the law providing for an independent counsel had not been renewed.

#110 ::: Eric Sadoyama ::: (view all by) ::: September 30, 2005, 06:17 PM:

Oh, Roy Blunt! For the longest time I had him confused with Roy Blount, and was wondering how a Republican Congressman could find the time to be so funny on NPR. My bad.

#111 ::: Laurel ::: (view all by) ::: September 30, 2005, 06:32 PM:

I went to a local production of the Mikado last night, and KoKo's "little list" included Tom DeLay (the audience thought that was great.) Fast work.

#112 ::: Marilee ::: (view all by) ::: September 30, 2005, 06:48 PM:

The local PetSmart has two male chinchillas in a glassed-in cage. You'd only have to bring Rove about 30 miles south-west of DC.

(I always say hello to them, because I say hello to the lizards and the birds, but they never even look at me.)

#113 ::: hrc ::: (view all by) ::: September 30, 2005, 07:01 PM:

It's minks that are nasty tempered. Chinchillas make wonderful pets, along the same lines as hamsters, based on personal experience. I hate to see them get slandered here b/c they are very sweet. They were almost hunted into extinction in S.America in the first half of the 20th century. They clean their fur by rolling in dust. Before they were domesticated they could jump quite high, but b/c of cage living that ability is gone.

#114 ::: Kate Yule ::: (view all by) ::: September 30, 2005, 07:18 PM:

I might react to Delay's indictment with "Woo Hoo!" But I cried a tremendous "Woot!" when I heard Brown had been ousted from FEMA -- and then found out he's still on their &(*%$+# payroll.

Pfeh.

#115 ::: Stefan Jones ::: (view all by) ::: September 30, 2005, 07:18 PM:

"The local PetSmart has two male chinchillas in a glassed-in cage."

Ah, yes. The small animal section.

Or as my dog calls it, "The Deli Case."

It is a good thing that dogs do not have spending money.

#116 ::: Claude Muncey ::: (view all by) ::: September 30, 2005, 07:19 PM:

A pause for a serious note:

Laura, just about any mammal can, in theory, contract and pass on rabies. However, it is difficult for herbivores to transmit the disease -- typical vectors are small wild carnivorees, pets, and bats. With wild squirrels and marmots you typically have more of a concern with sylvan plague.

Please return to your previous discussion.

#117 ::: Mary Kay ::: (view all by) ::: September 30, 2005, 08:19 PM:

Oh, hell with it. Let's just turn them all over to Mother Hitton's Littul Kittons.

MKK

#118 ::: CHip ::: (view all by) ::: September 30, 2005, 10:54 PM:

Clifton Royston: Why, oh why, couldn't all of this have happened one year earlier, and we could have had that cretin out of office by now?

If Miller had spoken when she was authorized, Shrub might have gone down. Any bets she was ... encouraged ... to keep quiet?

#119 ::: P J Evans ::: (view all by) ::: September 30, 2005, 11:16 PM:

If Miller had spoken when she was authorized, Shrub might have gone down. Any bets she was ... encouraged ... to keep quiet?

I was wondering if there actually was a waiver done a year ago; since it's one of the suspects who's making that claim - well, call in the giant squid, the fish are running. And I think Libby knew very well what was going on; there was a piece in, IIRC, the NYTimes, saying Libby is to Dick as Dick is to Shrub.

#120 ::: Skwid ::: (view all by) ::: September 30, 2005, 11:38 PM:

I'm gonna have to jump in, here, as the sole defendant of buttered, boiled okra. It was one of my childhood favorites. Bit of salt on them and they're chewy, slimy, and delicious. Maybe not quite as tasty as they are fried, but certainly far better than curried or (blech) pickled.

Yes I also liked brussel sprouts and broccoli. I think it was God's way of making up for how much I loathed tomatoes and onions.

I'm going to go old school and suggest Rove be seen entering the cheap motel with a shop vac, a case of bag balm, and enough kippers to fill a bathtub.

#121 ::: Stefan Jones ::: (view all by) ::: September 30, 2005, 11:49 PM:

Vienna sausages would be funnier than kippers, because it would reveal at last what the damn things are for.

#122 ::: Lin Daniel ::: (view all by) ::: October 01, 2005, 12:12 AM:

Let's just turn them all over to Mother Hitton's Littul Kittons.

SECOND!

okra:

My beloved eats okra. It seems it's an Oklahoma staple, or so he's led me to believe. I get my California revenge: I eat nopales (prickly pear cactus pads, de-prickled and chopped). Nopales is a bit slimy, too.

#123 ::: Paula Lieberman ::: (view all by) ::: October 01, 2005, 12:45 AM:

A third here chimes in for the mad [telepathic, too, weren't they?] weasels of Norstralia, part of the planetary defense system.

#124 ::: Linkmeister ::: (view all by) ::: October 01, 2005, 03:19 AM:

Curiouser and curiouser. Even reporters at the Times are wondering why it took so long for her to testify.

Mr. Fitzgerald only recently agreed to confine his questions to Ms. Miller's conversations with Mr. Libby concerning the identification of Ms. Wilson, Mr. Abrams said.

But other reporters struck deals with Mr. Fitzgerald last year that also limited the questions they would be asked. For instance, Glenn Kessler, a reporter for The Washington Post, testified in June 2004 on ground rules essentially identical to those Ms. Miller obtained, according to an article in The Post at the time.

This is really strange. What on earth did she sit in jail for 3 months for, if she seemingly didn't have to?

#125 ::: P J Evans ::: (view all by) ::: October 01, 2005, 10:39 AM:

A possibly-stupid question: why are the questions Fitzgerald is asking limited to conversations with Libby? Could it be that someone else talked and said that Libby was the one who Told All? Is Karl going to get off again?

#126 ::: Bob Oldendorf ::: (view all by) ::: October 01, 2005, 11:56 AM:

It says volumes about Miller's abilities as an investigative reporter: she certainly had an interest in finding out the exact meaning of Libby's prior release, but - for a year! - it never occured to her to just ask him for clarification.

Either she's the worst reporter in the world, or she took a fall to protect the Bush administration.

I suppose those aren't mutually exclusive.

#127 ::: Larry Brennan ::: (view all by) ::: October 01, 2005, 12:49 PM:

Eric Sadoyama - Me too. I was thinking, how could such a seemingly nice guy be such a slime? Now all I can say is [emily littella] That's different. Nevermind! [/emily littella]

#128 ::: Faren Miller ::: (view all by) ::: October 01, 2005, 01:06 PM:

Rah rah wahoo! only when he's indicted? How about only when he's indicted *and* doesn't get a presidential pardon? It's nice to see Delay, Frist et al. accused of corruption since that makes for wonderfully bad PR, but I can't see how any of those high muckimucks (sp?) could truly be brought to justice in today's political environment. Like, did Nixon ever serve jail time?

#129 ::: pericat ::: (view all by) ::: October 01, 2005, 02:15 PM:

How about only when he's indicted *and* doesn't get a presidential pardon?

I don't think the president can issue a pardon for someone convicted for a non-federal crime.

#130 ::: Larry Brennan ::: (view all by) ::: October 01, 2005, 02:54 PM:

pericat: I don't think the president can issue a pardon for someone convicted for a non-federal crime.

Well, can Texas Gov. Perry? If so, expect same.

No pity for the wrongly executed, nothing but praise for the corrupt. God bless our nation - we need it.

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