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October 28, 2005

D&S: a story from Capclave
Posted by Teresa at 11:11 AM * 127 comments

Down at Capclave, weekend before last, Patrick and I and Michael Swanwick did a panel on workshops. At one point Swanwick got to telling Clarion stories. I’m going to try to do justice to this one, though of course it was better when he told it.

(Background info: Clarion runs for six weeks, with different instructors coming in for one-week stints.)

So Michael Swanwick is teaching his week at Clarion, and one of the students hands in a long somber story full of angst and sodomy*. Swanwick considers it and says, “What this story needs is more dinosaurs.”

The next story the student turns in does have dinosaurs in it, but it’s a piece of fluff. Swanwick shakes his head. “It needed more sodomy,” he says.

The student is flummoxed, and protests that he’s just trying to put into practice what he’d been told. Swanwick explains, to him and to the rest of the students, that writing is a matter of finding the appropriate balance of dinosaurs and sodomy.

Then he goes home. The next instructor is Gardner Dozois.

A week later, Gardner comes home and says, “Michael, what the hell did you tell those kids? All week long, they were handing me stories about dinosaurs and sodomy!”

=

If I were a better storyteller myself, I’d know whether or not it would help to explain that Gardner Dozois and Michael Swanwick have been friends for decades; or that Gardner is not only a brilliant writer and editor, but is living proof that “Rabelaisian” still has a place in our everyday vocabulary. One story about dinosaurs and sodomy wouldn’t faze Gardner in the slightest. Getting a week’s worth of them at Clarion is a pail of water balanced on top of a door.

=

The state of things: Patrick and I are near the end of the busiest spell of professionally-related travel we’ve had in our lives. This month started with a week of intensive teaching at the Viable Paradise writers’ workshop out on Martha’s Vineyard. October 14-16 we were guests of honor at Capclave in Silver Spring, Maryland. This past weekend I was what they call a presenter at the 2005 Surrey International Writers’ Conference in Surrey, B.C. We’re not quite finished running the gantlet yet, but we’ll soon be done, and will go back to being a regular presence here.

We haven’t deserted you. We’ve just been on extended leave.

Comments on D&S: a story from Capclave:
#1 ::: Serge ::: (view all by) ::: October 28, 2005, 10:53 AM:

Ah, Gardner Dozois... If I go to a con and he's on a kaffeeklatsch, I try to be on it because I know it'll be time well spent just by listening to him. I mean, this is the man I once heard hawking Asimov's subscriptions in a worldcon's dealer room, proclaiming the magazine would even take wampums.

#2 ::: Serge ::: (view all by) ::: October 28, 2005, 10:54 AM:

And welcome back, Teresa & Patrick...

#3 ::: cicada ::: (view all by) ::: October 28, 2005, 11:09 AM:

...and certainly, also thanks for your time at VP. Even if now I have to work harder, at least I'm in no danger of scurvy for a while. (-:

#4 ::: Victor S. ::: (view all by) ::: October 28, 2005, 11:12 AM:

We miss you. Hurry back.

Umm... isn't the thing you run a 'gantlet'?

#5 ::: Xopher (Christopher Hatton) ::: (view all by) ::: October 28, 2005, 11:34 AM:

Victor: nope. They're running an armored glove. Honest they are. You watch.

#6 ::: Teresa Nielsen Hayden ::: (view all by) ::: October 28, 2005, 11:46 AM:

Oh bugger. Let me fix that.

#7 ::: Serge ::: (view all by) ::: October 28, 2005, 11:47 AM:

By the way, what are stories about dragons AND sodomy look like? Inquiring minds want to know.

(Right about now, the old SNL skit about Sodom's Chamber of Commerce trying to clean up its image is going to come up into this thread.)

#8 ::: Glenn Hauman ::: (view all by) ::: October 28, 2005, 11:53 AM:

I so did not need the image of D&S referring to Gardner and Michael. The mental pictures of leather chaps, lace panties, and sodomizing dinosaurs... and either one of them wearing the panties... jesus, woman, I know you're just trolling for hits in search engines, but there are limits, y'know.

I mean, what's next? Macdonald wearing nothing but a pink apron, high heels, and wielding a +2 feather duster?

#9 ::: Teresa Nielsen Hayden ::: (view all by) ::: October 28, 2005, 11:59 AM:

Dangerous, Glenn. I've seen a photo of Macdonald dressed as Klinger from the time his ER did a group M*A*S*H costume for their town's annual Fourth of July parade.

Anyway, I don't see why the dinosaurs & sodomy visualization has to involve Swanwick and Dozois. Strikes me as more a Phil Foglio kind of thing.

#10 ::: Sisuile ::: (view all by) ::: October 28, 2005, 12:02 PM:

Glenn...DID YOU HAVE TO PASS ON THE IMAGERY?

*shudders*

Anyway, welcome back, Teresa. Oh, and I think the PASE link kept a good 3 or 4 dozen people up much later than their bedtimes. Judging by the commentary labeling me as an onomasochistic enabler this morning.

#11 ::: violet strange ::: (view all by) ::: October 28, 2005, 12:03 PM:

Or it's a dinosaur pirate story - Dinosaurs, Sodomy and the Lash!!!

Yeh, now I know what the Patrick O'Brian books were missing - dinosaurs!!!

#12 ::: Paula Helm Murray ::: (view all by) ::: October 28, 2005, 12:08 PM:

ROTFLMAO

I will not read Making Light at work.
Repeat 100 x...

anyhoo, best wishes to you all. Be glad to have you 'back.'

#13 ::: Jeffrey Smith ::: (view all by) ::: October 28, 2005, 12:11 PM:

Isn't gantlet just a different spelling of gauntlet? Did it supercede gauntlet while I wasn't paying attention?

#14 ::: Dru ::: (view all by) ::: October 28, 2005, 12:28 PM:

Sounds like Leather Week here in SF!

I have this wonderful image now of The Secret Night-lives of Dinosaurs by James Gurney, coming to a specialty shop near you. Replete with cavernous gothic architecture, humans and dino's milling around in their best fetish garb.

Silencing the random giggling during meetings today is going to be such a chore.


#15 ::: xeger ::: (view all by) ::: October 28, 2005, 12:35 PM:

Dinosaurs and sodomy! Between that and the blood all over my keyboard it's going to be a fun day.

"What's going on xeger?"
"*snicker* Dinosaurs and sodomy..."
"Uh, okay - what's with the blood?"
"*snicker* Dinosaurs and sodomy..."

(Papercut. Unfortunately the sort that makes a bloody mess before you notice...)

#16 ::: Serge ::: (view all by) ::: October 28, 2005, 12:43 PM:

Phil Foglio?

My funniest moment at Cascadia, a few weeks ago, was being near the Foglio family's table in the dealer's room. Foglio himself wasn't around, but his wife Kaja and their 5(6?)-year-old son were there, heavily into a discussion where mom explained to son that, no, meal bugs are NOT bugs one can eat during meals.

#17 ::: Xopher (Christopher Hatton) ::: (view all by) ::: October 28, 2005, 12:47 PM:

Oh bugger. Let me fix that.

Well, drat. Next I was gonna tell Victor that you got the specs for the remote-control armored glove, complete with sourcing for the tiny servos in the fingers, from Make: magazine. Tell me you wouldn't have bought it, Victor!

Isn't gantlet just a different spelling of gauntlet? Did it supercede gauntlet while I wasn't paying attention?

You're a bad, bad person. I actually thought you were serious until I got to...shudder, you know what. My PedanTech™ software didn't flag it fast enough.

Strikes me as more a Phil Foglio kind of thing.

Actually it strikes me as a Kurt Erichsen kind of thing!

#18 ::: Teresa Nielsen Hayden ::: (view all by) ::: October 28, 2005, 12:56 PM:

Phil Foglio. As in the Oh no, there goes Tokyo again! cover of Xenophile.

#19 ::: Madeleine Robins ::: (view all by) ::: October 28, 2005, 12:59 PM:

Glenn, don't even talk about such things. I shall have to have my brain dry cleaned.

Teresa--how was the Surrey conference?

#20 ::: ajay ::: (view all by) ::: October 28, 2005, 01:04 PM:

So, in theory, Clarion could be reduced to a highly-advanced version of a Magic 8 Ball, which produced the following responses:

1. Your short story has too much sodomy. Ick! Remove some.
2. Your short story has too many dinosaurs. Eek! Remove some.
3. Your short story has both too many dinosaurs and too much sodomy. Put in some padding and you will have a novel. (If you have already done this, add some more padding; you now have a trilogy.)
4. Your short story is short of dinosaurs. Boring! Add some.
5. Your short story is short of sodomy. Staid! Add some.
6. Your story is short of both dinosaurs and sodomy. Tear it up and start again. You are hopeless.
7. Reply hazy. Try again later.
8. Editor too drunk. Try again much later.
9. Editor not drunk enough. Try again in about 5 minutes.

#21 ::: LIn Daniel ::: (view all by) ::: October 28, 2005, 01:11 PM:

I'm reminded of another day and another set of laughs, where someone said he hadn't had his morning coffee yet, to prevent the coffee from squirting out his nose.

What's next? ROFL, ROFLMAO, ???

#22 ::: Stefan Jones ::: (view all by) ::: October 28, 2005, 01:12 PM:

I think dinosaur sodomy could explain their extinction. Spreading their seed on the ground instead of putting it where G'Razz the Mighty intended . . .

#23 ::: nerdycellist ::: (view all by) ::: October 28, 2005, 01:57 PM:

I'm awed.

For years, a friend has held to her theory of dinosaur extinction through homosexuality (I have argued that the plates on the Stegasaurus' spine would preclude such activity, but she will have none of it.) and now, like the million monkeys at a million typewriters, the collective conscious of Making Light has independently confirmed this theory.

Truly, it is a day of thanksgiving.

I say these things in the name of the Flying Spaghetti Monster, Ramen.

#24 ::: Graydon ::: (view all by) ::: October 28, 2005, 02:05 PM:

Nerdycellist --

Behaviour doesn't fossilize, much; you can't readily associated the tracks and the bones, and the bones having behaviour stuck to them is very rare indeed.

Which is about all that prevents speculation on how in the blessed blue blazes Apatosaurs -- with cloaca underneath four tons of thick, wide tail -- possibly managed from getting into the literature.

#25 ::: P J Evans ::: (view all by) ::: October 28, 2005, 02:13 PM:

Which is about all that prevents speculation on how in the blessed blue blazes Apatosaurs -- with cloaca underneath four tons of thick, wide tail -- possibly managed from getting into the literature.

Possibly they did it like tortoises and box turtles: very carefully. (The male sort of climbs halfway onto the female, who is quite capable of walking off during the act.) The width of the tail is not a problem, but the carapace definitely can be.

#26 ::: Victor S. ::: (view all by) ::: October 28, 2005, 02:28 PM:

Xopher, I would totally have bought two. Just to hear the kids at Halloween screaming "Run! The Gauntlet!".

#27 ::: Sarah S. ::: (view all by) ::: October 28, 2005, 03:07 PM:

I'm hoping desperately that Eric Garcia either reads Making Light or gets pointed here by someone who does...

#28 ::: bryan ::: (view all by) ::: October 28, 2005, 03:35 PM:

wow, it's like this guy has my notebooks:

"Gomorrah, the last lonely monster of Monster Island
raised her dilated nostrils to the wind. Where had the lesbian dinosaurs gone?!?"

...............................
not to mention he's looked at my library

The Tyrant of Sodom
'When two brontosauri come into a swamp ruled by the perverted tyrants of Sodom it is an unnatural disasster in the making!


--------------------------------------

#29 ::: John M. Ford ::: (view all by) ::: October 28, 2005, 03:50 PM:

"Cue the Son of Hercules!"
"Ready when you are, C. B.!"
"Cue the Tyrant of Sodom!"
"Ready when you are, C. B.!"
"Cue the dinosaurs!"
"Oh, Cecil . . . you bitch."

And the phrase "Oh bugger. Let me fix that." was in this context either chosen brilliantly, or . . . chosen brilliantly.

Igor go away now.

#30 ::: Julia Jones ::: (view all by) ::: October 28, 2005, 04:02 PM:

Serge said: By the way, what are stories about dragons AND sodomy look like? Inquiring minds want to know.

If you really want to know, you can always offer beta-reading services to one of my fellow erotic romance authors. I'm not quite sure why, but that's what she's currently writing. :-)

#31 ::: Serge ::: (view all by) ::: October 28, 2005, 04:23 PM:

Thanks, Julia. I might take you up on that one.

By the way, we weren't told what kinds of dragons were involved in the act. Chinese? Standard European?

#32 ::: Skwid ::: (view all by) ::: October 28, 2005, 04:40 PM:

Every source I can find on gauntlet/gantlet says that there's no particular reason to favor one over the other, and that most dictionaries list them as alts of each other, so unless there's some fannish context I'm unfamiliar with, I'll join in on the confusion.

#33 ::: Xopher (Christopher Hatton) ::: (view all by) ::: October 28, 2005, 04:52 PM:

Dictionaries! Pfaugh. 'Gauntlet' acquired some of the meaning of 'gantlet' just by sounding similar. In other words, people made mistakes. The only thing is that 'gantlet' is NEVER an armored glove (at least I've never seen that usage). Of course, the entire word will probably sink without a trace.

This sort of thing has happened before. And I'm sure it was irritating to the generation it happened to, every single time.

#34 ::: Lenora Rose ::: (view all by) ::: October 28, 2005, 05:06 PM:

Lin Daniel:
"What's next? ROFL, ROFLMAO, ???"

ROFLMAOASTC has been the standard in our house and with most folk I know.

(...And Scaring The Cat)

#35 ::: Serge ::: (view all by) ::: October 28, 2005, 05:09 PM:

Forgot to ask, Julia... What is beta-reading? The obvious answer to me is that this is what used to be called first-draft reqading.

#36 ::: Jakob ::: (view all by) ::: October 28, 2005, 05:29 PM:

I've always seen 'run the gauntlet' used as the expression, and never 'run the gantlet'; Brewer's Phrase and Fable would appear to agree with me. The OED has gauntlet in this case being a corruption of 'gantlope', which refers to the gap between two rows of soldiers, through which people had to run through stripped to the waist whilst being beaten by rope ends or sticks as a punishment.

I'd never thought about the origins of this phrase before - I love this place and all you wonderful people.

#37 ::: Jakob ::: (view all by) ::: October 28, 2005, 05:31 PM:

P.S. OED simply lists 'gantlet' as an obsolete form of 'gauntlet'.

#38 ::: Skwid ::: (view all by) ::: October 28, 2005, 05:31 PM:

Xopher, a counterargument which states that gantlet has been in the past an acceptable variant for the "glove" meaning.

#39 ::: Xopher (Christopher Hatton) ::: (view all by) ::: October 28, 2005, 05:34 PM:

I just said I'd never seen it. Live and learn.

#40 ::: Serge ::: (view all by) ::: October 28, 2005, 05:47 PM:

'gauntlet' comes from the French word 'gantelet', which means the armored glove. And 'gant' is the French word for 'glove'.

#41 ::: Avery ::: (view all by) ::: October 28, 2005, 05:50 PM:

"The only thing is that 'gantlet' is NEVER an armored glove....."

I've never seen 'gantlet' prior to today!

And now can't help think of an anthropology class where everyone was describing some neck decoration type artifacts from the Cahokia site as, gor-gets rather than gor-jays. It made my teeth hurt.

#42 ::: Charlie Stross ::: (view all by) ::: October 28, 2005, 05:55 PM:

This story really made my day! You see, ever since the worldcon, Mike and I have been discussing a collaboration.

Curiously, the stump of a novella we're working over (originally his, I hasten to add) does not include any dinosaurs or sodomy.

But that's going to change when I start re-writing it ....

#43 ::: Ide Cyan ::: (view all by) ::: October 28, 2005, 06:30 PM:

It's new the Frocks vs. Guns!

#44 ::: Sara Rosenbaum ::: (view all by) ::: October 28, 2005, 06:39 PM:

xeger wrote:
Dinosaurs and sodomy! Between that and the blood all over my keyboard it's going to be a fun day.

Well, we can do you dinosaurs and blood without the sodomy, and we can do you dinosaurs and sodomy without the blood, and we can do you all three concurrent or consecutive. But we can't give you blood and sodomy without the dinosaurs. Dinosaurs are compulsory. They're all dinosaurs, you see.

#45 ::: xeger ::: (view all by) ::: October 28, 2005, 06:52 PM:

Sare Rosenbaum declared:

Well, we can do you dinosaurs and blood without the sodomy, and we can do you dinosaurs and sodomy without the blood, and we can do you all three concurrent or consecutive. But we can't give you blood and sodomy without the dinosaurs. Dinosaurs are compulsory. They're all dinosaurs, you see.

That's all good - especially if they're the furry winged sort that somehow manage to develop telepathy while the team hibernates to esc^H^H^H... erm, right. Different story.

Buggery, buggery, buggery, boo!

#46 ::: Sharon Mock ::: (view all by) ::: October 28, 2005, 07:23 PM:

If dinosaurs don't interest me, can I substitute pygmy mammoths instead?

#47 ::: Charlie Stross ::: (view all by) ::: October 28, 2005, 08:31 PM:

Pygmy mammoths are always Good.

(Which reminds me, I've got to finish the novella I was working on about a pygmy mammoth with a bad beer problem ...)

#48 ::: Julia Jones ::: (view all by) ::: October 28, 2005, 09:08 PM:

Serge: beta-reading is indeed first-draft reading. And in the fanfic context also covers other forms of having someone other than the author read the story over before inflicting it on the public at large. As far as I know the term originated in fanfic, but has escaped into the wider world. Others may be along to correct/enlarge upon this.

The story in question involves an m/m romance between a human and a shapeshifter dragon. I don't know any more than that at the moment.

#49 ::: Marilee ::: (view all by) ::: October 28, 2005, 11:15 PM:

Dino does Dallas?

#50 ::: Teresa Nielsen Hayden ::: (view all by) ::: October 29, 2005, 12:26 AM:

If I'd written a post about gantlet vs. gauntlet, I trust you guys would instead discuss dinosaurs and sodomy.

Charlie, I was just setting my fingers to the keyboard to type "pygmy mammoths are always good" when I saw your message. Could truer words be spoken?

#51 ::: Stefan Jones ::: (view all by) ::: October 29, 2005, 12:40 AM:

Does an unseemly interest in pygmy mammoths make one a Wooly?

The context-switch from doing some Java class* homework to reading this thread has left some smoking black skid marks across my psyche.

I think I'll go for a walk.


* Homework on . . . classes.

#52 ::: John M. Ford ::: (view all by) ::: October 29, 2005, 01:05 AM:

Hot Gingered Pygmy Mammoth & Jumbo Shrimp Salad

Feeds your whole tribe.

1 pygmy mammoth, boned and cubed (about 1 ton)
1 ton jumbo shrimp, peeled and deveined (many many ordinary shrimps, or one Ebirah claw)
10 buckets sesame seeds
60 pounds bean thread noodles if you are an Eastern tribe, whatever your tribe uses for noodles otherwise. If you have not yet invented the noodle, this might be a good time to do so.
1 bucket vegetable oil
1 bucket sesame oil
Salt
10 buckets minced fresh ginger
6 buckets minced garlic
15 buckets dry Sherry
15 buckets rice wine vinegar
60 pounds sugar
60 buckets diced fresh mangoes
15 buckets chopped green onions
Big Snorgul's helmet full of red pepper flakes
10 buckets chopped fresh cilantro, plus 5 Big Snorgul's helmets fresh cilantro, garnish
1000 large heads lettuce, cored and leaves separated (a raid on the People Who Grow Stuff may be necessary)
30 buckets thinly sliced, peeled, seeded, drained cucumbers, or just chop up the damn cucumbers and say "Fie to thee!" a lot
All the chives you got

Preheat a giant turtle shell over a fumarole. A big giant turtle. Put some oil in there. Make sure no other giant turtles are around to see you do this.

On a flat rock, stirring with your Stick of the Dining God, dry cook the sesame seeds over medium heat until they are brown and smell good. Remove from the heat. Add the noodles to the turtle shell and fry fast until puffy and the color of sunrise. Remove from the oil and drain on non-itchy leaves. Throw salt. Set aside.

Sear the mammoth meat on the flat rock. Salt but don't overdo it, you remember what happened to the Chest-Clutching Tribe of the Plains. Drain.

Get a less giant turtle shell. Okay, think of this as a celebration dish for a good turtle hunt and shrimp catch. Make the vegetable oil and most of the sesame oil dance. Add the shrimp, mammoth, ginger, and garlic, and cook fast, stirring, until the shrimp are just pink and firm. Doom of Ten Thousand Wretched Canapes awaits those who overcook shrimp. Remove from the shell with pole weapons. Add the sherry and vinegar, and sing the Song of Deglazing over medium heat. Add the sugar and stir until it is one with the sauce. Cook until half the fluid is gone. Feed anybody who thinks this is waste to the giant turtles. Add the rest of the sesame oil, mangoes, green onions, and pepper flakes, and stir to warm through and wilt. No, this wilt is good. Tell the people it is the wilt of the Wilt God. You need all the mojo you can get. Remove from the heat and add the shrimp and ginger, and the cilantro. Stir to warm through and do the Highly Dramatic Ritual of Adjusting the Seasoning to Taste.

Now your tribal status is on the thin edge of the cleaver. Have everybody bring what they eat off of. You know your tribe. Put lettuce on whatever they hold out and spread the hot stuff on it. Those who have no eating platters should be used to the drill by now. Arrange cucumber slices on top in whatever symbolic pattern seems propitious to you and sprinkle with the toasted sesame seeds. If you have a really tough tribe, yell "Bam!" until they get a groove going. Add fried noodles, cilantro sprigs, and chives, and watch for any signs of people keeling over that can't be blamed on strong drink.

#53 ::: Julia Jones ::: (view all by) ::: October 29, 2005, 01:30 AM:

[puts up hand]

Please sir, do we *have* to have the cilantro? Can't we just have extra ginger?

#54 ::: Bruce Arthurs ::: (view all by) ::: October 29, 2005, 01:45 AM:

Serge wrote:
"My funniest moment at Cascadia, a few weeks ago, was being near the Foglio family's table in the dealer's room. Foglio himself wasn't around, but his wife Kaja and their 5(6?)-year-old son were there, heavily into a discussion where mom explained to son that, no, meal bugs are NOT bugs one can eat during meals."

Ahem. Would Indonesian Mealworm Bars be close enough?

(from the local paper here in Phoenix, AZ, of all places)

#55 ::: John D. Berry ::: (view all by) ::: October 29, 2005, 03:17 AM:

"Surrey International Writers’ Conference"? Really? I mean, congratulations and all, and I know that anything close enough to a border is international (cf. Bellingham International Airport), but isn't that a little like the Newark International Writers' Conference?

I suppose if it weren't for the pretentiousness of the name, I wouldn't think twice. Hope you had a lovely time.

John


#56 ::: bryan ::: (view all by) ::: October 29, 2005, 03:30 AM:

"ROFLMAOASTC has been the standard in our house and with most folk I know.

(...And Scaring The Cat)"

damn, I was hoping it was another S word. given the context of the thread.

#57 ::: Serge ::: (view all by) ::: October 29, 2005, 06:52 AM:

So, that's what beta-reading is? Thanks, Julia. It's rather interesting that computers have so much permeated the modern culture - and so quickly too - that we now have such an expression. I rather like it.

Reminds me of my friend Elisabeth Vonarburg (author of Motherlands, among other things). A few years ago, some organization she had written for didn't pay her the proper royalities for stuff they put on their site because, well, it wasn't really published. In their eyes, she had been just a content provider. That taught them not to pick a fight with someone whose father had been in the French military since the Great War.

About the story, sure, go ahead. I've never read erotica, but a story is a story. Heck, I've been the beta-reader for my wife Sue Krinard since her first novel.

#58 ::: Serge ::: (view all by) ::: October 29, 2005, 06:56 AM:

Thanks, Teresa. Your original Foglio comment had made me think it was a reference to XXXenophile, which you confirmed. And, yes, that's why I waited until I was home to check out the cartoon, in case even a cartoon would be considered too naughty and grounds for firing. Thanks again.

#59 ::: Serge ::: (view all by) ::: October 29, 2005, 06:58 AM:

Indonisian mealworm bars, Bruce? Yucko.

By the way, did you receive that issue of Analog?

#60 ::: Bruce Arthurs ::: (view all by) ::: October 29, 2005, 09:15 AM:

Serge: Yes. And thanks.

#61 ::: P J Evans ::: (view all by) ::: October 29, 2005, 09:31 AM:

Please, sir, how many times do I have to fill Big Snorgul's helmet to fill a bucket?

(ROFLMAO)

#62 ::: Serge ::: (view all by) ::: October 29, 2005, 09:37 AM:

Glad to hear that, Bruce. And if you come across someone who'd like the complete series going back to some time in 1999, let them know.

#63 ::: Bruce E. Durocher II ::: (view all by) ::: October 29, 2005, 10:45 AM:

Oh, Pigmy Mammoths. Yawn. I thought since Phil and Kaja were mentioned you might be talking about Mimmoths. (Scroll down to the bottom of the page.)

Bruce Arthurs: Please don't mention your discovery in front of Victor. The Foglio kitchen is small, and unlikely to have room for mealworm bars to properly cool...

#64 ::: Dave Langford ::: (view all by) ::: October 29, 2005, 11:34 AM:

Jeffrey Smith worried: Isn't gantlet just a different spelling of gauntlet? Did it supercede gauntlet while I wasn't paying attention?

I hate it that (at least in some places) "supercede" seems to have superseded "supersede" while I wasn't paying attention.

Dave

#65 ::: Kathryn Cramer ::: (view all by) ::: October 29, 2005, 07:29 PM:

Ah. The possibilities for form rejection letters. Goodness. Sorry I missed that panel.

#66 ::: Scott Drone-Silvers ::: (view all by) ::: October 29, 2005, 07:56 PM:

Brian - "ROFLMAOASTC has been the standard in our house and with most folk I know.

(...And Scaring The Cat)"

damn, I was hoping it was another S word. given the context of the thread.

I suspect that WOULD scare the cat. And what the cat would do to your, um, peccant part would probably be even scarier.

#67 ::: Kip W ::: (view all by) ::: October 29, 2005, 09:19 PM:

It's so obvious that "gauntlet" is a small gaunt, that it goes without saying. Or at least without saying again.

Never mind. I'm just here because of the folk art in bottles. The head of the art department at GSC (now GSU) installed a soft drink vending machine in the lobby there that said "Enjoy An ESTHETIC EXPERIENCE" on it. I queried him on this, and he said that you put in your quarter and get a signed, numbered photo in a glass and steel frame. By golly, I gambled a quarter, and got a ten-ounce bottle with a cap on it and inside was the signed and numbered photo of the machine I had purchased it from. One of the best quarters I ever spent (the other would be the pamphlet by Swift that I got at a book sale at Rice University)(or maybe the horrendous set of buck teeth I got in a vending machine at Goodwill, which I used for years as half of a Halloween costume).

By turning my head slightly, I can see my esthetic experience right up there on the music bookshelf.

One of the other things this professor did (apart from writing his name upside down and backwards at the beginning of each class he taught and giving me an offhand bit of art advice that gave me years of worthwhile improvement) was when one of his classes went to Savannah, and we were looking at vendors on the riverfront and trying not to slip on the enormous cobblestones. I found one who was selling little model VW microbuses about six inches long, that ran around and around on top of an LP whilst playing the record hideously and unevenly through a tinny cheap amp inside. I dragged him over and showed him, and he talked the dealer down in price and bought one. Next party he gave, he got everyone's attention and said he wanted to share something. He set the scene for a tender moment in "La Boheme" when Mimi is dying of her illness, but sings this one last touching song. He then lay the disk reverently on a cloth and brought out the VW, which then raced in diminishing spirals, bleating out the worst Puccini I'll ever hear. Or maybe the best, it's hard to say.

Richard Tichich, I salute you. You are still one of my heroes.

#68 ::: Stefan Jones ::: (view all by) ::: October 29, 2005, 09:38 PM:

I've been looking for one of those model-car record players. Archie MacPhee sold them at one point, but I didn't go for it. Ah, well.

Perhaps in fifty years someone will create a cyborganic wallaby which will sing out the contents of text files of CD-ROMs you stick in its pouch.

#69 ::: John M. Ford ::: (view all by) ::: October 29, 2005, 10:15 PM:

"Okay, I bought the dinosaur mp3 player. Where do I put the USB drive with the songs on it?"

"Haven't you been following this thread?"

#70 ::: Paula Helm Murray ::: (view all by) ::: October 29, 2005, 10:29 PM:

That would be ROTFLMAOPIMP ...(peeing in my pants). Which I'm about to do so I'll be back before I read more.

#71 ::: Lin Daniel ::: (view all by) ::: October 29, 2005, 10:34 PM:

60 pounds bean thread noodles if you are an Eastern tribe, whatever your tribe uses for noodles otherwise. If you have not yet invented the noodle, this might be a good time to do so.

15 buckets dry Sherry
***If they don't have noodles, why do you think they have Sherry?

Big Snorgul’s helmet full of red pepper flakes
***Someone better clean Big Snorgul's helmet really well

ROFLMAOASTC!!
(Thanx!)

#72 ::: xeger ::: (view all by) ::: October 29, 2005, 11:50 PM:

John M. Ford wrote:

"Okay, I bought the dinosaur mp3 player. Where do I put the USB drive with the songs on it?"

"Haven't you been following this thread?"

My university roommates and I had two standard responses to

    "Has anybody seen my $object" 

One was

   "I ate it"

The other suggested location to search should be obvious in this context.

#73 ::: Julia Jones ::: (view all by) ::: October 30, 2005, 12:01 AM:

I am pleased to report that this thread is now ranked number 1 of about 60,500 results if you Google on dinosaurs and sodomy.

#74 ::: Stefan Jones ::: (view all by) ::: October 30, 2005, 12:43 AM:

Careful with this talk of Dinosaur mp3 players. I've been looking for a project to keep me from the temptation of buying Civilization IV.

#75 ::: Jeffrey Smith ::: (view all by) ::: October 30, 2005, 01:08 AM:

I hate it that (at least in some places) "supercede" seems to have superseded "supersede" while I wasn't paying attention.
Dave

Damn! It's a word I rarely use, and now I know why.

(Wait. My dictionary lists "supercede" as a variant of "supersede." Now I don't feel quite so bad -- just lucky.)

#76 ::: John M. Ford ::: (view all by) ::: October 30, 2005, 01:14 AM:

[As Tokyo crumbles, again:]

Supreme Commander, UN Anti-Godzilla Institute [UNAGI]: Gojo, would you mind answering a question about our new Mekagojira?
Gojo: And you won't be angry?
Commander: I will not be angry.
Gojo: What would you like to know, sir?
Commander: Who, exactly, got the contract for Mekagojira's AI programming?
Gojo: So-something.
Commander: So-what?
Gojo: Oh, very funny, Commander-san.
Commander: I'm waiting.
Gojo: So-nee, I think.
Commander: Sony? As in . . . Sony?
Gojo: Yes, I do believe they had the low bid.
Commander: You're telling me that a one-hundred-meter tall, ten-thousand-ton, fusion-driven robot monster has a PlayStation 2 for a brain? And that while it is grinding public buildings into balsa and acrylic, it is playing "Planet Tokyo" by Puffy Ami Yumi at a hundred and fifty decibels? Is that what you're telling me?
Gojo: It has a nice beat. You can dance to it. I give it an 89.

#77 ::: Christopher Davis ::: (view all by) ::: October 30, 2005, 01:39 AM:

Instead of a dinosaur MP3 player, there's always a dinosaur Firewire hub. (The power adapter socket, sadly, appears to be on the side of the tail rather than, er, underneath.)

#78 ::: Lea ::: (view all by) ::: October 30, 2005, 04:15 AM:

It's so obvious that "gauntlet" is a small gaunt, that it goes without saying.

I've taken to using it to refer to the many, many offspring of John of Gaunt.

I have had occasion to do this because I am a dork. ;)

Also this thread has caused me to realize that my academic work, while plentifully stocked with sodomy, is sorely lacking in dinosaurs.

#79 ::: Bruce E. Durocher II ::: (view all by) ::: October 30, 2005, 07:59 AM:

...and certainly, also thanks for your time at VP. Even if now I have to work harder, at least I'm in no danger of scurvy for a while. (-:

This raises a question for Teresa: how are the orange peelers holding out?

#80 ::: Serge ::: (view all by) ::: October 30, 2005, 08:13 AM:

I've got to ask, John... Do you really come up with those pastiches/sendups on the spot? Or are they in some archive of yours, to be extracted when the situation requires it? Either way, I'm impressed. And laughing, especially during your Mekagojira discussion, where I kept seeing Frankie Sakai in the Gojo role.

Have you seen that recent TV ad that shows a big Godzilla-sized monster wrecking an unspecified city until an Iron-Giant type of robot shows up. Next thing you know, they're lying side by side in the city ruins while contemplating the stars. Then it shows the monster in a rather advanced state of pregnancy. Then it gives birth to a... Hummer.

#81 ::: Jo Walton ::: (view all by) ::: October 30, 2005, 10:34 AM:

We got helmets and sherry and fine pygmy shrimp
We found two turtleshells and made fine lettuce limp
We dragged home the mammoth along two sharp stakes
But we threw up for days from the red-pepper flakes!

So that was the end of our mammoth-shrimp feast
I thought through what I'd learned when the throwing-up ceased:
When following recipes ganked from a scribe
Make certain what allergies lurk in your tribe.

#82 ::: Xopher (Christopher Hatton) ::: (view all by) ::: October 30, 2005, 11:55 AM:

'Supercede' is Just Plain Wrong!!!!!!

Wrong wrong wrong! Bad! Evil! Blasphemous!

OK, I just hate it. It's me. Linguistic change sucks, like bad weather: pisses you off, but there's nothing you can do.

Here's why this one gets my goat: 'supersede' is the only word in the English language that ends in '-sede'. That's because it's from seder, 'to sit' - so its etymological meaning is 'sit above'. I think that's kind of cool, as is its standing alone like that. '-cede', on the other hand, is from cedere, 'to yield'. 'Yield above' makes no goddam sense.

OK. That's my rant.

BTW, JFTR I'm into sodomy (the nice kind) but not dinosaurs. Not sexually, anyway.

#83 ::: Serge ::: (view all by) ::: October 30, 2005, 12:26 PM:

Supercede annoys you, Xopher? What gets me is the expression pushing the envelope. I know, I know, it's supposed to mean pushing the limits of things, but it really sounds like when you call an employee to the office and you push the envelope (with the pink slip in it) across the desk to the poor guy. On the other hand, the original expression, pushing the outside of the envelope, as heard in The Right Stuff, means what it should because it is complete.

#84 ::: Paula Lieberman ::: (view all by) ::: October 30, 2005, 02:18 PM:

The Right Stuff was written by a Journalist...the term "the envelope" refers to the region that something works or is "operational" in. Go outside of it, and things like Challenger blowing up happen. "Outside the envelope" means that you're outside the allowable limits and performance range, you may or may not survive it.

(Test pilots fly experimental planes that usually have things like parachutes attached to them along with ejection seats/other sorts of emergeny exits so the flight crews can get out of the plane if the plane goes into an unrecoverable dive/spin. The parachutes are on the plane to try to provide ways to help a dive or spin avoid being unrecoverable in terms of the plain surviving it. Test pilots' charter is to determine the flight envelope, and study the boundaries, and generate the data and help generate the manual for safe flying of production aircraft, including generating the "never to exceed" conditions and minimum controllable flight conditions. )

One of the words envelope gets used with is "performance," as in "performance envelope." There are limits on planes called things like "minimum controllable airspeed" and "never to exceed" speed. Going below the minimum controllable airspeed stalls the plane out, going above it can cause structural failure, or engine failure, or the plane stops being in controllable flight. I think there was at least one case of a non-Concorde passenger airliner going supersonic--which was outside the allowable speed/flight envelopment of the plane)--when it was in a dive and the flight crew had lost control of the plane, because they had apparently been playing around with having the flaps out while cruising which isn't correct procedure, and the flaps didn't retract symmetrically, causing the plane to wind up going into a steep dive, with different flaps on the plane (consider trying to fly a paper airplane with asymmetrical wings).

The crew got control of the plane again after losing a -lot- of altitude, and combination of velocity resulting from gravity of something falling, and the initial velocity of the plane when it went into the dive, resulting in the plane going supersonic. There was structural damage to the plane from the wings flexing beyond their design stress limit (but not to the breaking point fortunately) and such, the plane survived and the passengers too, but...

Getting back to the subject, however, "pushing the envelope" refers usually to either pushing the limits of the envelope, that is, getting very close to the boundaries where the equipment breaks/things fail, where there isn't 'stability" or "stable operation" anymore. Going "outside the envelope" denotes that you're not where the equipment was designed to work, you're taking some big risks or doing things that are dangerous or in "here be dragons" (no, not Jo's dragons!) territory.

There's also "pushing the envelope" in terms of working on things and techniques to increase the area inside the envelope of stable, allowable, acceptable operations and performance. That is, operating at the hairy edges of what's acceptable/disaster, and perhaps working to better define where the limits are and come up with ways to extend them.

#85 ::: Dave Bell ::: (view all by) ::: October 30, 2005, 02:20 PM:

Speaking of The Right Stuff, I've been reading a fanfic which turns the dial up to 11 on pushing the outside of the envelope.

It's called Road Runner and can be found at this page, along with a lot of other stuff. It's almost worth a look just for some of the story titles.

But is it good, I hear you ask?

Well, I've read it a couple or three times. Dieselpunk with the dial turned up to 11.i

#86 ::: Marilee ::: (view all by) ::: October 30, 2005, 02:53 PM:

Serge, I've seen Mike do pastiches in person.

#87 ::: Bruce Arthurs ::: (view all by) ::: October 30, 2005, 03:12 PM:

Dave, that "Road Runner" fanfic has no line breaks, only paragraph breaks. This makes every paragraph one VERY long line, extending far past the edge of the screen.

In other words, unreadable.

#88 ::: Serge ::: (view all by) ::: October 30, 2005, 04:11 PM:

So, Paula, you ARE saying that "pushing the envelope" is a valid expression. I stand corrected. Heck, this means I don't have to cringe when I hear talk of pushing the envelope. That is indeed a relief.

#89 ::: Serge ::: (view all by) ::: October 30, 2005, 04:12 PM:

Mike does pastiches off the cuff, Marilee? I am definitely impressed.

#90 ::: Clark E Myers ::: (view all by) ::: October 30, 2005, 05:46 PM:

I've never seen a serious explanation for the word choice envelope nor have I seen anything on usage in other European languages to explain the choice of the word envelope - it may well be there and I'm asking the group?

I've always taken it to be a way to emphasize that we're really talking about a multidimensional situation so that an excess on the given axis(es) depends on where we are on other values. That is envelope is used to emphasize that we are concerned with more than a single measure. A surface enveloping a volume.

I've often wondered that I don't hear corner case in common use. Is coffin corner from automobiles?

Speaking of stressing wings, I've always been amused that the Bearcat (Grumman F8F) was first built to lose the outer wing panels when over stressed - saving IIRC about 200 pounds weight. Later production took the weight penalty and early production was reinforced.

The case mentioned above sounds an awful lot like Airframe by Michael Chrichton which is a fun read but high lift is more or less not available under the circumstances described.

I don't know of any examples of supersonic flight on a passenger revenue flight (Concorde aside) but it has happened. Notice that pieces may go supersonic (trail a shockwave momentarily) without the airplane going supersonic over the ground. Look at the pictures of smoke rings (associated with the air change) on things hanging off the jet airplanes. One of the limits on propellers is tip speed.

#91 ::: jennie ::: (view all by) ::: October 30, 2005, 06:54 PM:

What's next? ROFL, ROFLMAO, ???

Our lot uses YOMANK.

#92 ::: xeger ::: (view all by) ::: October 30, 2005, 10:48 PM:

Clark wrote:
I've often wondered that I don't hear corner case in common use. Is coffin corner from automobiles?

I use 'edge case' fairly often, but I'm more than willing to believe that much of my vocabulary shouldn't be considered common use.

#93 ::: John M. Ford ::: (view all by) ::: October 30, 2005, 10:54 PM:

ROFLACIRLMOBIHTMLHTITYOPRONWIMCSN

Which is, being interpreted,

Rolling On the Floor Laughing
'Cause I Really Lost My Online Blues
It's an HTML Hotlink
That I Think You Ought to Peruse
Roll Over Norbert Wiener, IM Claude Shannon the News

[Broken down by line for easier transcription:
ROFL CIRLMOB IHTMLH TITYOP RONWIMCSN

[And the five-letter-group version, goin' out especially for Bruce:
ROFLC IRLMO BIHTM LHTIT YOPRO NWIMC SN, followed by three nulls]

I don't expect it to catch on, but heck, memory's cheap and hotkeys are everywhere.

#94 ::: Christopher Davis ::: (view all by) ::: October 30, 2005, 11:27 PM:

Clark: I believe "coffin corner" is the point at which the stall speed meets the max airspeed of the aircraft. Bad place to be.

The incident Paula mentioned sounds like the N840TW incident of April 4, 1979. (NTSB report [PDF].) The 727 dropped from 39,000 ft to about 5,000 ft in about 63 seconds. The NTSB's probable cause determination was that the crew had extended the leading edge devices while trying to extend the trailing edge flaps alone, and were unable to retract the #7 LED due to the combination of aerodynamic forces and misalignment. The plane did reach approximately M 0.96 during the descent.

#95 ::: Glenn Hauman ::: (view all by) ::: October 31, 2005, 01:27 AM:

Those aren't red pepper flakes in Big Snorgul's helmet.

Sadly, Big Snorgul appears to be the first recorded person in history to know the heartbreak of psoriasis....

#96 ::: Dave Bell ::: (view all by) ::: October 31, 2005, 01:44 AM:

Bruce, try the .pdf version.

#97 ::: Kevin Riggle ::: (view all by) ::: October 31, 2005, 01:48 AM:

I use 'edge case' fairly often, but I'm more than willing to believe that much of my vocabulary shouldn't be considered common use.

xeger, I think 'edge case' is pretty common engineer lingo, and I've also heard 'corner case' used. Wikipedia seems to think that an edge case is when one input is exceeding operational parameters, and a corner case is when multiple inputs are exceeding operational parameters. This seems to fit with terms like 'boundary conditions'.

Back to doing my own Java homework...

#98 ::: ajay ::: (view all by) ::: October 31, 2005, 10:05 AM:

The Hindus tell the story of five blindfolded Making Light posters in a room with an elephant. TNH, who had hold of the creature's ear, said "Surely this is a palm frond!" But PNH, who had hold of its trunk, replied "No, surely it is a snake!" And Xopher, who had hold of its leg, said, "No, this is a tree!" And Charles Stross, who had hold of the tusk, said "No, you are all wrong; this is a spear!" But it was only when they removed their blindfolds that all exclaimed "No! We were all partly right, and yet all wrong; it is an elephant!"
Upon which John M. Ford, who had been very quiet up till this point, said "Quick! Let's cook and eat it!"

#99 ::: Tom Scudder ::: (view all by) ::: October 31, 2005, 12:20 PM:

Jo's contribution upthread played itself in my head to the tune of "These are a few of my favorite things".

That is all.

#100 ::: Jakob ::: (view all by) ::: October 31, 2005, 12:39 PM:

Coffin Corner is the point in the flight envelope where the stall speed and the critical mach number meet; As Christoper Davis points out, this is a Bad Place to be. This is probably what brought Gary Powers down in his U-2. When flying spy missions, the U-2 was at an altitude such that the stall spped and max mach speed were just a few knots apart. Whilst trying to evade the SAMs he let his speed drop, stalled out and dropped a few thousand feet, and got clobbered.

As Clark mentioned, the envelope is a multi-dimensional thing. Coffin corner is a point on the speed envelope, but there is also (for example) a load envelope, and indeed probably as many as there are parameters on an aircraft (ie many).

It's interesting to note that engineers have a large and varied vocabulary for things going wrong; I suspect this is because most of an engineer's job consists of guarding against failures, or fixing ones that have occurred.

#101 ::: Dave Bell ::: (view all by) ::: October 31, 2005, 01:12 PM:

I was most recently earwormed by the Postman Pat song sung to the tune of Robin Hood (from the British-made TV series of about 45 years ago).

#102 ::: Serge ::: (view all by) ::: October 31, 2005, 02:16 PM:

Robin Hood, starring Richard Green? I remember that, Dave. I also seem to remember another British TV series from the same era, about a family of Vikings? (And no, it wasn't a comedy.)

#103 ::: Serge ::: (view all by) ::: October 31, 2005, 02:17 PM:

Robin Hood, starring Richard Green? I remember that, Dave. I also seem to remember another British TV series from the same era, about a family of Vikings? (And no, it wasn't a comedy.) What was the title of it, already?

#104 ::: Marilee ::: (view all by) ::: October 31, 2005, 06:59 PM:

Serge, Mike's brain works in a few more dimensions then mine does, I just do Doggerel on Demand (and, if asked, can do it to improvised melody).

#105 ::: Lin Daniel ::: (view all by) ::: October 31, 2005, 08:07 PM:

What's next? ROFL, ROFLMAO, ???

Our lot uses YOMANK.

---
Which means ...? Because I definitely need to use it after Jo Walton's poem. Either that, or ROFLMAOPIMP!

#106 ::: Dave Luckett ::: (view all by) ::: October 31, 2005, 08:37 PM:

It was called "The Vikings". I remember it being about two brothers, one tall, blonde and rugged, the other dumpy, dark and violent. I have a strange, strange feeling that the leading man was a guy who actually was credited as "Leif Eriksson", but I find that very difficult to believe.

Would I believe "Sven Svennson"?

I don't believe that, either.

How about some bloke named Morrie Feinsterbocker in a helmet with horns on?

#107 ::: Serge ::: (view all by) ::: October 31, 2005, 11:15 PM:

Feinsterbocker, Dave?

I thought that British show "The Vikings" had three brothers, and the father who was the chief. But it's been a looooong time since I saw the show. I can't remember if anybody had a helmet with horns.

Speaking of Norsemen... Wasn't there a movie based on Prince Valiant where the Vikings had those silly old helmets with cow horns? I think James Mason was the bad guy on the non-Viking side.

The Vikings looked way less silly in the late-Sixties's "Alfred the Great". They had Prunella Ransom, and a berserker, and Michael York as the Norman invader, so who could ask for more? It was a bit hard to believe David Hemmings as a war hero though.

#108 ::: Serge ::: (view all by) ::: October 31, 2005, 11:16 PM:

John M. Ford, multi-dimensionnal man, Marilee? That would explain a lot of things.

#109 ::: xeger ::: (view all by) ::: November 01, 2005, 02:18 AM:

Serge mused:

John M. Ford, multi-dimensionnal man, Marilee? That would explain a lot of things.

My brain is strugling to force that to scan as 'Johnny the multi-[ARGHHHH]-man' vis-a-vis "Charlie the methadone man" by Fastball (it's a delightfully cheery song until you listen to the lyrics).

#110 ::: Graydon ::: (view all by) ::: November 01, 2005, 02:24 AM:

That handsome brother/ugly brother thing is found in Egil's Saga; Egil was the (famously) ugly brother, and Thorulf was the handsome brother.

#111 ::: dave ::: (view all by) ::: November 01, 2005, 04:44 AM:

Lin, YOMANK = "You Owe Me A New Keyboard", the implication being that the old one has been rendered useless by wit-induced involuntary beverage expulsion.

i.e.:

witty_person: "Wenn ist das Nunstruck git und Slotermeyer? Ja! Beiherhund das Oder die Flipperwaldt gersput!"
you: *SNOOSH[1]*
you: "YOMANK!"

[1] Onomatopoeic rendering of beverage spewing all over your keyboard, probably through your nose.

#112 ::: Bill Higgins-- Beam Jockey ::: (view all by) ::: November 01, 2005, 09:11 AM:

Dave Luckett writes:

I thought that British show "The Vikings" had three brothers, and the father who was the chief. But it's been a looooong time since I saw the show. I can't remember if anybody had a helmet with horns

UHF station WSPY-TV in Plano, Illinois airs a bottom-feeder network called America One Television. It features the absolutely cheapest programming I've seen anywhere: Unremembered Fifties TV series, monochrome B movies, and oddball sports like billiards and equestrian events.

The Richard Greene Robin Hood (1955-1958) airs every Tuesday at 5:30 PM EST. in other timeslots, one can catch U.S. Marshals, Long John Silver, Racket Squad, Northwest Passage, Public Defender, and Cowboy G-Men. They don't seem to be showing Love That Bob or Casey Jones at the moment, but they have. They do have a few actually-classic shows like The Burns and Allen Show and You Bet Your Life.

WSPY's signal is none too strong on my cable system, so if I Tivo any of these shows, they appear with a lot of compression artifacts, giving an interesting 21st-century look to Jack Webb or Bob Cummings.

I wouldn't be surprised to see The Vikings turn up on their schedule... a faint bell is ringing to say that I may have seen it go by on the Tivo.

#113 ::: Dan Hoey ::: (view all by) ::: November 14, 2005, 04:47 PM:

xeger writes:

"*snicker* Dinosaurs and sodomy..."
"Uh, okay - what's with the blood?"

Of course there's going to be blood! [*]

#114 ::: bryan ::: (view all by) ::: November 14, 2005, 05:00 PM:

ROTFLMAOPIMP:

Rolling on the floor laughing MAOPIMP.

#115 ::: bryan ::: (view all by) ::: November 14, 2005, 05:05 PM:

Who is that inscrutable oriental that lives
only for the Revolution

*MAOPIMP*

Damn right

Who in his little red book keeps the phone numbers of sexy dinosaurs when he feels like sodomising

!!MAOPIMP!!

Action sequence, lights flashing, acid flashback

subside...

MAOPIMP and Sweet Tyranosaurilyn in his hammock practicing the kamasutraceratops. Looks like another beautiful day in the Valley of the Dolls that time forgot.

#116 ::: bryan ::: (view all by) ::: November 14, 2005, 05:16 PM:

MAOPIMP sashays into the cave of the top secret superasiatic Dick Cheney. Dick Cheney glares at him, wearing his funky attire "You are late Maopimp, do not treat me idly, I demand foremost genuflection!"

"Yomank"
"Your slang reaks of imperialism, reform your mentality for coming breakthroughs of astounding intelligence."

"Cam do. By the way, main man, who's your tailor?"

**!!**MAOPIMP**!!**

Who's that supersexy thinker of the new millennium in the gray flannel funky trousers?

*MAOPIMP*

Who confirms that the march of a thousand miles begins with one extremely righteous step on his pilgrimage?

!!MAOPIMP!!


You got it.

#117 ::: David DeLaney ::: (view all by) ::: August 07, 2008, 04:04 AM:

Julia@73: 3 years later in 2008? ...it still is.

Clearly Making Light is weaving the Web for the ages.

--Dave

#119 ::: Lee ::: (view all by) ::: May 31, 2014, 01:29 PM:

Heh. I have to admit that, just looking at the thread title and knowing for which incident Conclave is infamous, that was not the first decoding my brain went to for "D&S"!

#120 ::: Lee ::: (view all by) ::: May 31, 2014, 01:31 PM:

And I said "Conclave" when I meant "Capclave". Two completely different cons, and I regret the error.

#121 ::: Jon Meltzer ::: (view all by) ::: August 19, 2014, 08:42 AM:

And over on Scalzi's blog, someone just classified Rachel Swirsky's "If You Were A Dinosaur, My Love" as "porn".

Victory is here.

#122 ::: Cassy B. ::: (view all by) ::: August 19, 2014, 08:56 AM:

Jon Meltzer @121, huh-WHAT? Porn? Seriously? It's a cri de coeur, certainly. It's a love story, absolutely. But how in hell do they get porn out of it??? <confused>

Victory for whom? (This reads like a reference, but it went over my head, I'm afraid.)

#123 ::: Cassy B. ::: (view all by) ::: August 19, 2014, 08:57 AM:

Ah. Never mind. I just read the original post. <sheepish> Should have done so before I posted....

#124 ::: Lila ::: (view all by) ::: August 19, 2014, 09:24 AM:

Jon Meltzer @ #121:

saw that someone had posted on old thread

read your comment

went "who the what now?"

went over to Scalzi's blog

read comment

looked up story

read and enjoyed immensely

so thanks!

#125 ::: Rymenhild ::: (view all by) ::: August 19, 2014, 01:18 PM:

Augh. I started reading "If You Were A Dinosaur" and thought, "Oh, this is lovely, I should send it to my partner as a love letter." Then I got to the middle and end. Sob.

#126 ::: Teresa Nielsen Hayden ::: (view all by) ::: August 19, 2014, 03:32 PM:

It all comes round. Michael Swanwick will also be a GoH at the Kansas City worldcon, though I don't think I'll be suggesting "Dinosaurs and Sodomy" as a panel topic.

#127 ::: Tom Whitmore ::: (view all by) ::: August 19, 2014, 04:38 PM:

You definitely should! Perhaps as a start of discussing stories from writer workshops, which really would make a good program item. You could do part from VP, any number of people from the Clarions, etc. -- I would want to find people who would be careful not to violate confidences, as this story does, but it could be a truly fascinating panel. If you don't want to do it for MAC II (hmmm, sounds like a computer) perhaps I'll steal it for Sasquan.

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