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Haines asked:
— Do you pay rent for this tower?
— Twelve quid, Buck Mulligan said.
— To the secretary of state for war, Stephen added over his shoulder. They halted while Haines surveyed the tower and said at last:
— Rather bleak in wintertime, I should say. Martello you call it?
— Billy Pitt had them built, Buck Mulligan said, when the French were on the sea. But ours is the omphalos.
— What is your idea of Hamlet? Haines asked Stephen.
— No, no, Buck Mulligan shouted in pain. I’m not equal to Thomas Aquinas and the fiftyfive reasons he has made out to prop it up. Wait till I have a few pints in me first.
I've just read the instructions on a box of Kraft macaroni and cheese dinner. The instructions note that you'll need:
6c. water
4 Tbsp. spread or margarine
1/4 c. milk
What on earth is 'spread' in this context? Something like the English 'dripping'?
I'm using butter just to spite them.
Amazon is eating our descenders!
I've just followed the particles link to "The Way We Wish We Were" which leads to an Amazon book preview. I got distracted when I noticed that the bulk of the descender on every 'y' and to an extent on the 'g's as well has been clipped.
It would be hard to think of anything less important to say, but it's early in the life of an open thread and it's bugging me, so there you are.
In the UK, "spread" is widely used to refer to vegetable-oil based products intended as butter substitutes. Don't know about anywhere else.
On a related note, if I were following a US recipe that called for "half-and-half", what would that be a reference to?
[Reading a Kraft Mac and Cheese Box]
What on earth is 'spread' in this context? Something like the English 'dripping'?
"Spread" is a product functionally similar to margarine, made as far as I know from vegetable oil, that somehow doesn't meet the technical definition of "margarine".
Butter is a fine idea, as long as you accompany it with some red wine to counteract the effects of the cholesterol. You are already showing your relative good taste by using real Kraft M&C instead of the generic equivalent.
On a related note, if I were following a US recipe that called for "half-and-half", what would that be a reference to?
Probably the dairy product that is half milk and half cream, used in coffee, etc., as a lower-fat alternative to cream.
"Spread" would be "margarine," a word that has always had an aura of the refinery yard about it. (I'm reasonably sure that at one time the Kraft Blue Box said "margarine.") And, long ago, margarine ads called the competition "the high-priced spread," as if they feared that to speak the name of butter in their product's hearing would cause it to deliquesce in shame.
And don't get me started on Vileveeta, which is now being sold for its melting qualities, which it shares with paraffin wax.
Jules,
Half-and-half is the dairy product that some Americans put into their coffee. Heavier than milk, lighter than cream.
So you use half cream, half milk you'd be just right.
Although for some recipes you can get away with just milk if you don't have cream. Or use all cream if you don't feel like fussing with adding the milk. Depends upon the recipe, really, as to what you can get away with as far as substitutions.
And here I thought plagiarism was passé:
http://www.nypress.com/18/48/news&columns/RobertClarkYoung.cfm
I'll say it again; I think most plaigiarists are habitual plagiarists; we just don't catch them the first few times.
"Half and half" is what I've seen in UK markets as "coffee cream." (And to be specific, it would be half whole milk, half single cream. In Europe one acquires a vocabulary of dairy goods that's hardly ever called upon in the US, except perhaps at a really good cheese shop, which fortunately I have.)
Vileveeta, indeed. The current commercial ("make an artery-clogging high-sodium dip by mixing Vileveeta and canned chili and microwaving until gloppy, then serve it to relatives you're hoping to inherit from...sooner rather than later") is disgusting enough at TiVo's three-arrow speed that I hate to think about what it's like to watch in real time.
I was called upon to explain the concept "double cream" to the Americans on a mailing list last week, in the context of making Real Custard. 48% fat. That got a few people drooling. :-)
Oh, and today's kitchen antics include nuking a jar full of olive oil and rosemary, as per the listening to habeneros thread. One of the rosemary plants had a short-back and sides today, and I seem to have rather a lot of rosemary to process as a result. There's *still* a bagful of the stuff. Results will be reported later in the week.
Half-and-half has roughly the butterfat of a mix of light cream and milk. A close substitute in the UK would be equal parts milk and single cream mixed together.
A rough table of US butterfat content in dairy products, with some comparisons in brackets:
whole milk: 3.5% butterfat
half-and-half: 11% butterfat
light cream: 18% butterfat, though the rules say between 18 and 30%.
[single cream, UK]: 20% butterfat
light whipping cream: 30-36% butterfat.
heavy cream: 36% butterfat (or more, in theory)
[double cream, UK]: 48% butterfat. Or more.
butter (US): 80% butterfat
butter (European style): 85-90% butterfat
If anyone could tell me of a US source for double cream, I'd be deeply grateful.
John M. Ford: Kraft uses 'spread' in opposition to 'margarine'. I'm worried that perhaps they've invented something that's not good enough to legally be called margarine. Like 'oleo', only worse.
Maybe "spread" is The Lard That Dare Not Speak Its Name.
According to my father, the reason behind not using the word "butter" in margarine commercials was legal: they weren't allowed to do so. So they used to get as close to the B-word as they could without actually using it. (And now I'm going crazy, trying to remember one of the jingles -- I know it ended with something like "Tastes so good, you won't know it's not -- better!", but I can't remember the first bit.)
I haven't been able to find a reference for this, but I have found a number of "history of margarine" sites which discuss the dairy lobby's fight against margarine and the fact that yellow margarine was illegal in many states. The manufacturers sold little bags of dye for people to knead into it, to get around the restrictions. It also led to a trade in bootleg colored margarine.
As a balance to the discussion of high-fat dairy products, I'll note that Kraft M&C tastes and looks pretty much the same if you only use half the magarine/butter/whatever. (I always assumed that "spread" referred to the "spreadable" versions of margarine). Similarly, the boxed stuffing products (bread crumbs and spices, just add water and butter/margarine) work just fine without any added fat whatsoever.
The Feds define what's margarine: 21CFR166
Margarine (or oleomargarine) is the food in plastic form or liquid emulsion, containing not less than 80 percent fat determined by the method prescribed in ``Official Methods of Analysis of the Association of Official Analytical Chemists,'' 13th Ed. (1980), section 16.206, ``Indirect Method,'' under the heading ``Fat (47)--Official Final Action,'' which is incorporated by reference.Most of the "spreads" have less than 80% fat. "Spread" doesn't have a legal definition. I suspect the fat requirement was a consumer protection item, to keep the margarine from being diluted with fillers. In this low-fat era, of course, people aren't bothered by not getting their fat's worth.
To add to the list of dairy variations, I saw in the grocery store just yesterday:
Fat-free half-n-half
and
Fat-free buttermilk
Say What? I thought the whole purpose of buttermilk was to have fat in your milk. Not to mention the reason behind half-n-half is to have cream (fat) in your what-evers. *ghak*
Velveeta + salsa in a jar + microwave = queso, an old Texas delicacy, like Frito Pie.
Now they sell commercial versions. But for the authentic stuff, you have to make it yourself.
Question for comic-book fans... Remember the Marvel cartoon show of the mid-Sixties that rotated Captain America, the Hulk, Thor and the Submariner? What were the lyrics for Captain America's episodes? I think the first two lines went like this:
When Captain America throws his mighty shield,
All those who oppose him must yield...
Anybody remembers the rest?
Serge: They're on this page (which also contains a wav file); here is an mp3 of it
But since it's so short:
When Captain America throws his mighty shield,
All those who chose oppose his shield must yield.
If he's lead to a fight and a duel is due,
Then the red and white and the blue'll come through.
When Captain America throws his mighty shield.
So what IS in fat-free half-and-half?
According to my father, the reason behind not using the word "butter" in margarine commercials was legal: they weren't allowed to do so.
An awfully long time ago, when margarine first emerged from the primordial soup, I had a nutritionist aunt who told us that Daffodil brand margarine was required by law to change its packaging. Apparently the image of a daffodil on the tub looked like a daisy, and Daisy is a common name for a cow, and it was just a couple of short logical steps to a suggestion that margarine was in some way related with butter. My aunt must have been telling the truth because soon after that she joined the Carmelites and hasn't been seen outside the wall since.
I don't know if it's limited to a UK-ism, but "half and half" refers to chips (fries) and rice over here.
Thanks, Bruce... You know what's strange about Captain America? They're not working on any movie based on the character. Sure, there was the 1991 movie, but it wasn't exactly a masterwork, although its heart was in the right place. But there's a web site that tracks down all comic-book-related movie projects and, while Marvel has Cap on its list, it's way at the bottom. Maybe people think Cap's kind of patriotism would not play well today, or that it'd be seen as jingoistic. Mind you, this is a character who, in the comics, got so disgusted with what was going on with Nixon that he went on the road to rediscover America.
> Lin Daniel: I thought the whole purpose of buttermilk was to have fat in your milk.
Axly, I think buttermilk is innately low-fat - it's what you have after you've churned the butter out of milk or cream.
I hadn't realized it's also fermented, so it's lower in sugar than regular milk.
http://biology.clc.uc.edu/fankhauser/Cheese/BUTTERMILK.HTM
"If anyone could tell me of a US source for double cream, I'd be deeply grateful."
Well, here in NYC, Dean & Deluca. Or Garden of Eden. Or the Whole Foods chain, which is also present in plenty of other US cities.
There's a reason they call us Decadent Cosmopolitans.
So what IS in fat-free half-and-half?
My sister and I have pondered this question in a slightly different form that's probably the result of too much Gilbert and Sullivan: "What's the other half?"
We're convinced it's clowns. Or unobtainium.
I have yet to see double cream at Trader Joe's, but they carry Normandy-style butter. Definitely worth a try, especially if you've fresh-baked bread to hand.
Jonathan Shaw: My aunt must have been telling the truth because soon after that she joined the Carmelites and hasn't been seen outside the wall since.
If you'd like specific references, here's one of the repealed Canadian statues, which includes a Misleading Advertising section. As for the States, there's a surprisingly large body of constitutional interpretation relating to dairy and pseudo-dairy products. From a case decided in 1902: "And it was further forbidden, in the marking, to use any words or combination of words indicating that the article was either butter, cream, or dairy product. This statute is compiled in Bates's Annotated Statutes of Ohio, 4200-30." (link)
I'm assuming the specific advertising limitations I'm thinking of were at a state level rather than Federal, but there doesn't seem to be any reason to doubt their existance, especially given the exciting history of the dairy lobby's long fight against artificial butter-like substances. These are the people who managed to get states to pass laws requiring that margarine be dyed pink, after all.
The classic additive to melted Velveeta isn't chili, or even salsa; it's Ro-tel brand diced tomatoes and green chilies.
Isn't "oleo" just the Southern U.S. shortening of oleomargarine? (Sorry, pun intended.) My grandmother used to say it; she also called the toilet the "commode."
Margarine vs dairy: Brummel & Brown Spread has yogurt (a noticeable amount) in it. Gives it real 'dairy flavor', as opposed to what the stuff otherwise tastes like. It still doesn't taste like butter, though.
The fat-free dairy products usually have some sort of thickener like carrageenan to replace the fat.
Once upon a time, restaurants had to obtain and display a "Margerine Certificate" so there'd be no chance they could get away with switching the sinister pretender oleo as butter.
Okay, I have a question for the cooking cognoscenti. To me, whipping cream and heavy cream are basically the same thing - 35% butterfat (after four years of living in the US, it still drives me crazy that dairy products aren't labeled with the fat content, and Victor S, I so appreciate your chart - thanks!). So I was a little confused when I found myself in the Whole Foods looking at containers labeled 'Whipping Cream' and 'Heavy Cream.' Aha, I told myself, I'll look at the nutritional information, and that will allow me to estimate their butterfat content. Well, as far as I could tell, they were calorically equivalent. So I bought one of them (the whipping cream, I imagine), took it home - and it totally failed to whip up. Cold beaters, cold metal bowl, hand mixer, big puddle of slightly thickened cream (which still tasted yummy poured over mixed berries with Triple Sec and mint). Can anyone tell me what I'm missing? I've been whipping up cream for most of my life, so I'm pretty confident in my technique. Any thoughts as to why it failed? Do both 'whipping cream' and 'heavy cream' whip up to soft peaks?
I remember standing at the dairy section of the small (commuter style) Sainsbury's around the corner from our flat in London this summer the day before we left for Glasgow and coming close to weeping because of the selection of different milks/creams/butters. (we rented while we were there, I'd wholeheartedly recommend it if you're staying a week or more)
Later on during our renfaire I mentioned to a friend that all our aches, pains and minor allergy ills seemed to get all better over there and she said, 'well, you were eating better whether you knew it or not, not as many additives, hormones or chemicals." I do know just about everything was tastier, and it was easier to get a 6+ lb chicken to roast (for whatever reason, here you have to pay a very sincere premium to buy a chicken bigger than 4-5 lbs. and that's not big enough to do anything other than roast or divide and fry/saute).
I have heard it said that the purpose of Velveeta was that vegetarians too could know the joy that is Spam.
I will now attempt to yank the thread over to France, which has delicious dairy products. I have been overcome with the desire to knit myself a liberty cap, but I've never seen a real one, nor have I found a good picture on the web. (It's probably my weak, weak Google-fu.) Can any of you help?
John M. Ford wrote: And don't get me started on Vileveeta, which is now being sold for its melting qualities, which it shares with paraffin wax
I'm now wondering if it's possible to substitute the Aqueous Cream I use on my psoriasis. This emollient is largely paraffin-based (Liquid paraffin and White Soft paraffin).
After all, it is a spread. I spread it on my skin.
"I'm now wondering if it's possible to substitute the Aqueous Cream I use on my psoriasis."
Bonus to using Velveeta, or other Processed Cheese Food product:
Neighborhood dogs attracted by the smell will give you free tongue therapy.
* * *
Somewhere in the back of the pantry is a plastic tray and cover specifically designed to hold a loaf of Velveeta. I should probably put it on eBay as a valuable collectable.
TexAnne, did you try "Phrygian cap"?
As to the difference between heavy cream and whipping cream: whipping cream is heavy cream with stabilizers such as carrageen and the like added.
When Cook's Illustrated did a taste test, nobody could detect ANY taste difference between the two, nor did they find that either was particularly easier to whip up. Whipping cream was somewhat more stable at room temperature, and took longer to "break" -- if you store whipped heavy cream for several days, it starts weeping, and whipped whipping cream takes longer -- but, have you EVER in your life had fresh whipped cream stay around for days?
I tend to use whipping cream more than heavy cream, mainly because that's what Costco sells in bulk, but they're mostly interchangable. I guess if you're grossed out by eating seaweed stabilizers, you might want to stick to the heavy cream, but it really doesn't matter.
As to why the cream didn't whip up -- no clue whatsoever. Someone put light cream in the carton by accident?
Patrick: Thanks for the tips. Whole Foods here in Boston (well, Cambridge) carries heavy and 'whipping' cream, but no double cream. I'll have to bring a cooler next time I go down to The Big City.
Paula Helm Murray: I have incredible memories of the cream I got in Raglan, at the farmers' cooperative store, with a date of manufacture the day before I bought it. It was too thick to pour, and a lovely pale yellow. And I concur absolutely with your thoughts on renting a flat even for short vacations.
G. Jules: Alas, Trader Joe's doesn't have double cream, not here at least. I'll check out the Normandy butter, though.
debcha: My last trip to the Whole Foods dairy section revealed that the whipping cream there was somewhat lower in butterfat than the heavy cream. My best guess as to the source of your problems is cream without enough butterfat. Also -- you might check whether your carton is ultra-pasteurized or just pasteurized. The "ultra" process normally denatures some stuff that stabilizes whipped cream; if their equipment overcooked it a bit, that could make the difference between whippable and not.
TexAnne: Try searching on "Phrygian cap" or "Liberty bonnet". IIRC, the originals were sewn felt.
TexAnne,
There's an article in the wikipedia, here, which described the liberty cap and says that it's what the Smurfs wear.
And a knitting pattern for an American Girl doll here.
Got it! There's a prime Phrygian cap here. These guys will sell you one. There's a photo in their section of kids' costumes. This site on pre-1066 costume has a pattern whereby you can make your own, and a good sample photo of the hat their pattern makes. Here's Zeus Areius wearing one because he wants to. Here's the hapless Louis XVI being made to wear one on his soon-to-be-detached head. This photo, from an antique dealer's site, shows someone wearing the "Marianne" version of the cap, with lappets.
How's that?
In theory, buttermilk is more acid than regular milk and this makes a difference in recipes calibrated for it. In my kitchen, I made "buttermilk" pancakes this morning using soy-milk and a little lemon juice and noticed no difference from the plain soy-milk (typo: spy-milk!) version, though I did get some weird-looking curdling effects. There's only a half-teaspoon of baking soda in my recipe, though, and two teaspoons of baking powder, so I think they were planning on people who can't be bothered acidulating their milk.
Lin Daniels's confusion at fat-free buttermilk is as nothing to mine when confronted with one of the ice cream toppings frequently on offer at Herrell's in Boston and Cambridge: sugar-free, fat-free hot fudge. Contemplating fudge without sugar or fat, I imagine a concentrated nothingness, something like the glop in the jar in Terry Bisson's Talking Man. Sugar free? Fat free? What's left?!
I confound my friends by insisting that nonfat products do not exist. It's winter. I need every bit of fat I can get. This will backfire someday, but for now, I'm cold.
Zeus wore his with the curled end forward - and isn't this also what Athena was sometimes depicted in?
My remembering of paintings from the French Revolution had the curve to the side or back, as shown in the link to Louis XVI.
Is this comparable to the backwards-baseball-cap of our era? When did the switcheroo take place?
"Charles Dodgson" - Traditionally, buttermilk is the whey left in the churn after the butter has been made, so it's a good protein source and ideally has little or no fat.
Modern buttermilk is a cultured milk product and can be made at any fat level but the most common are fat-free and low-fat (1%).
Kylee - Acidulating soy milk (or spy milk if you prefer, since it can be a clandestine product) clabbers the soy milk the same way it would with regular milk. Cook's Illustrated suggests that this works better for pancakes than using buttermilk. If I were eating pancakes these days, I'd skip both and use slightly acidulated Kefir.
Interestingly, I've only just found a brand of soy milk I actually like, Organic Valley. Yum - not beaney at all.
Serge - Usually the hide of whomever Zeus last slept with.
Oops. I meant, what did Hera wear on her noggin?
Sorry, Larry. I meant, what did Hera wear on her noggin?
(Apologies for the post's repeat. I wasn't sure the first attempt had made it thru. It's late, I'm at the office, I just found that on weekends they kept the heat down to a minimum. Which makes me feel like Bob Cratchitt.)
"What did Hera wear?"
Which inevitably reminds me of the novelty song with state names, which included gems like: "What did Delaware boys, what did Delaware?" "She wore a brand New Jersey." And "why did California you?" "She phoned to say Hawaii."
Frequent lurker here--this thread reminded me of a buttermilk pie I used to get as a kid, and I was wondering if any of you might know a good recipe. I can find "buttermilk" pie, and "Chess" pies aplenty online, but my grandmother called this one a buttermilk chess, and none of the recipes sound quite right. It had a lovely custardy texture, but wasn't very sweet, and I always got in trouble for scraping the almost-crispy browned bits off the top.
On the topic of "spread," my grandfather had an Uncle Spread (never knew his real name.)That was what they used to call the frothy stuff that rose to the top of the butter churn--they would "spread" it on bread for a snack. Used to tell me stories about Uncle Spread and the Yankees when I was little.
Thanks for any recipe advice.
It's interesting that the figure of Zeus should be identified with the Thracian Zeus Areius and dated to the third century AD - presumably he was wearing the hat to show himself a champion of freedom, which would presumably be the freedom of Thrace from the Romans. Or possibly just the mascot of a free Greek city, which I presume is the case with Athens and the Phrygian-cap wearing Athena. Although Mithras is usually portrayed in a Phrygian cap, too, so maybe there is some syncretism going on.
All the images I've ever seen from antiquity have it with the peak forward. Unless like the coin to commemorate the assassination of Caesar, they don't have a peak at all.
How did Wiscon Sin, boys?
She bought a New Brass Key.
Too bad that Arkan Saw, boys,
and so did Tennie See...
I have the Perry Como version. Some of the links are tenuous, to say the least. I guess some here might also be amused by John Linnell's State Songs. The TMBG constituency must overlap somewhere (besides in me) with the Peter Blegvad constituency.
Don't mind me, I just suddenly got excited about posting links.
No one's mentioned clotted cream in this thread, which is a tragedy.
Clotted cream is made, apparently, by heating very high fat content cream to about 190° F (88 C) and letting it cool slowly. It forms a rich yellow crust over a treacle-thick bottom layer. It's best eaten with jam over scones, or poured over fresh berries.
Just thought you all should know.
"...today's kitchen antics include nuking a jar full of olive oil and rosemary..."
Is that what the kids are calling it these days?
abi, clotted cream is a fine thing (I've never found any that poured per se, but perhaps if you heat it a little). On warm scones, or crumpets, or other toasted items, with a bit of jam. Yum.
However, and unfortunately, clotted cream of any respectable quality is basically unavailable in the US. They sell this stuff in jars that is disappointing in the extreme. And those of us wanting to make it at home (quite easy, actually) have to find a source of unpasteurized cream (not so easy, and in some states illegal).
Or we can settle for making it with pasteurized cream, if you can find a source of heavy or double cream without stabilizers in it; it's just not quite as nice a texture and you don't get that golden crust. In any case it makes the house smell like a dairy.
I've taken to simply importing it, wrapped with ice packs in a cooler for the flight, whenever we make a trip to the isles. Anticipation makes it taste four times as good as usual.
To speak of something completely different, have y'all see the first case of Rowling denialism?
Film director Nina Grünfeld simply thinks the rags-to-riches story of JK Rowling is too good to be true.
Writing in a commentary in Norwegian newspaper Aftenposten's cultural pages this week, she questioned whether it's really possible for Rowling to have been the sole creative force behind what's become an international book and movie empire.
Interesting, that. On the same grounds that Baconites rubbish Shakespeare, too: that he was just a bumpkin from Warwickshire who couldn't possibly have known as much as the plays show, and couldn't have been as sensitive and as aware as that. Only the upper classes, y'see, could have been like that. And Rowling was merely a single mother, a nobody on a train. Of course she couldn't have done something so grand. Such a person simply doesn't have the qualities required.
(I'm sorry. Nausea has that effect on me.)
Steve Taylor wrote: Amazon is eating our descenders!
And at once I thought: "fishtins!" That was the catchword at the UK Milford conference where one of the MSS had been run off on some nasty 9-pin matrix printer, and Richard Cowper constructed a vast, spurious theory of a post-holocaust background to the story -- because although the technology was otherwise Dark Ages, some character got injured by fishtins.
(The printer didn't do descenders for letters like "g", making it fatally easy to misread "fighting". Indeed it was a sruellins strussle to read that text at all.)
Dave
I just grazed across this website, so I'm not familiar with the culture here.... so, what does any this chatter about varieties of grease have to do with the quote by James Joyce? " –And going forth he met Butterly."
J Austin - I think I have my great-great grandmother's buttermilk chess pie recipe around here somewhere. I'll look when I get home from class this afternoon.
Ralph Estling had an interesting article in the Sept/Oct 2005 issue of Skeptical Inquirer. He points out that "...[w]hen one thinks about it, virtually everything that has ever happened in the history of the Universe, was totally unexpected, until it became, suddenly or over gradually over the aeons, inevitable. Physicists call this changeover point a phase transition..."
And this from something that starts with a scene from Bergman's The Seventh Seal and, near the end, announces that "...Max Born, Nobel laureate in physics and one of Albert Einstein's closes friends, was the grandfather of the pop star Olivia Newton-John..."
This being an Open Thread, I just wanted to throw out a round of aplause to Teresa for that particle on the varieties of American Political Parties. It's far more tangled, incestuous and interesting than I ever thought possible.
Flinging out another topic....
At age 44 I have just started on my associate's degree to become a Physical Therapist Assistant. This involves taking anatomy, medical terminology, etc. etc. and has introduced me to the joys of Taber's Cyclopedic Medical Dictionary, possibly the best 20 bucks I ever spent. (I should explain that I'm one of those people who knew about hypertext long before the Web--I go to look up a word in the dictionary and half an hour later I'm still chasing references around in circles, having long forgotten what I was originally looking for.)
At any rate, so far I have discovered the following delightful nuggets:
Jumping Frenchmen of Maine: an abnormally strong startle reflex, believed to be of genetic origin, and common in the French-descended population of the state of Maine. ("Mrs. Jones, we believe your husband has Jumping Frenchmen of Maine.")
Lover's fracture: fracture of the calcaneus (heel bone) such as might be caused by jumping from a balcony or second-story window.
Koro: the folk belief in some Asian cultures that one's penis can completely retract into the body, causing death. (A related belief in some parts of Africa holds that sorcerers can steal someone's penis. Pointing out that the alleged victim still has his penis does no good, as obviously the sorcerer has stuck it back on as soon as the accusation was made.)
I'll second that, Keith. And I propose thanking Teresa & Patrick for the whole site.
The Jumping-Frenchmen of Maine? Never heard of that one even though I grew up where most of those French-Canadians of Maine came from.
One out of two ain't bad:
Former Canadian defense minister wants talks on political relations with extraterrestrials, as he is afraid President Bush will start a war with them:
http://news.yahoo.com/s/prweb/20051124/bs_prweb/prweb314382_1
(Belatedly, just as the thread moves on....)
My old machine always clips off the descenders for e-mailers at this site -- thus, the comment about the problem came from "Steve Tavlor".
As to all those kinds of cream: geez, isn't anyone else around here lactose-intolerant? Mom finally got me to try Brummel & Brown Spread, and it's much better than the thick soy-based stuff that refuses to melt, in terms of both texture and taste. I can still drink non-fat lattes and Mom loves buttermilk, so evidently it's the fat that gets us now. But I happily pig out on coffee yogurt and the occasional warmed cup of chocolate soy milk ('tis the season)!
"UFOs, are as real as the airplanes that fly over your head."
That guy was Canada's Defense Minister, Lila? Well, you know, he might have been on to something. The StarGate is supposed to be in Colorado, but it sure looked like British Columbia to me.
Faren Miller: I can still drink non-fat lattes and Mom loves buttermilk, so evidently it's the fat that gets us now.
Wow! I think you're only other person I've met who's milk-fat intolerant, rather than milk-sugar intolerant. It's been a constant source of curiosuty in my group of friends how it is that regular non-fat milk doesn't bother me at all, but I can't drink more than about half a cup of 2% lactaid without reacting. I wonder if there's a name for that, since "lactose-intolerant" doesn't exactly seem accurate?
I still cook with real butter though, and European butter when I can get it. Margarine, yech.
Ayse: Do you have any trouble from Customs/Agriculture when you bring cream into the US? Those folks are positively coy about revealing what's allowed and what's seized on arrival.
On clotted cream generally, I offer this tidbit from Alan Davidson's eminently browsable The Oxford Companion to Food:
"In Devon and Cornwall there was a traditional practice, barely surviving at the end of the 20th century, of making butter from clotted cream. The dairymaid would stir the cream with her forearm until the butter was formed."
Yum. No word, though, on how long the dairymaid was up to her elbows in cream.
Faren: Think of this as an outpouring of talk on a normally forbidden subject: butterfat. I once, preparing to make a big batch of puff pastry, went through a Whole Foods with nothing but nine pounds of butter in my basket. Parents actually blenched and pulled their children away from me, as if I might contaminate them by proximity.
Superhero Hype has a link to a site with photos from the upcoming X-men movie. The Angel looks pretty good. And the Beast definitely looks bestial - if I didn't know already, I'd never have recognized Kelsey Grammer.
"Is it possible that a person can write six thick books that are translated into 55 languages and sell more than 250 million copies in less than 10 years? ..."
(from the Potter denialist)
I'd just like to say that people like her give stupid a bad name in so many ways.
1. The idea is, presumably, you get better writing by committee?
2. Asimov wrote 400-plus books in 60-ish years. Conspiracy! (the Potter books are, roughly, fifteen NaNoWriMos by my estimate; I'm sure a professional can give a better estimate.)
3. "I can't do this, therefore nobody can" is a thought process that should be strongly discouraged. Especially when applied to acts of intelligence.
To "huh": this is an open thread. Contextless items go here.
"Jumping Frenchmen of Maine" is either a) the sort of thing Captain Haddock would say in moments of extreme emotion or b) a mysterious Chestertonian secret society, similar to the Twelve True Fishermen, the Club of Queer Trades, the Society of Dead Men's Shoes, and the Ten Teacups (about whom, of course, I dare not say a word).
And I must admit to being intrigued by Capgras' Syndrome - the belief that a close friend, relative or spouse has been abducted and replaced with an exact duplicate.
Clotted Cream......sigh (I had tea this week end that included the version one can get here, which while nice enough wasn't what my memory can taste).
On a sort of related fat laden thought...I miss eating grimenes (fried chicken fat and onions). I still make my grandmother's chopped liver recipe but only on special occasions (no longer for every Shabbat) as it really is quite unhealthy.
"And I must admit to being intrigued by Capgras' Syndrome - the belief that a close friend, relative or spouse has been abducted and replaced with an exact duplicate."
Yes--even worse than this is Capgras' Hypochondria: the belief that you have been cured of Capgras' Syndrome, but now have a different disease with an exactly indentical set of symptoms.
"Brush up your Hogwarts, and the girls you'll wow."
Worls for Snape, I gather.
A recently retired CBC radio host used to complain about most "healthy" foods with the epigram "no salt, no fat: no taste". The fast-food industry seems to be predicated on the concept that *only* salt and fat are important.
My mother makes a divine chocolate cake frosting using devon double cream.
Does anyone know of a cheese that has a higher fat content than Boursin's 70%?
Captain Haddock, ajay? I keep forgetting that the Tintin stories were translated into English and other languages. I do wonder how the translations managed to keep the flavor of Captain Haddock's very colorful swearing. Got any sample?
Victor S: Hmm...we must be going to the same Whole Foods (I normally go to the one on River St, and live around the corner from the one on Prospect), and I'm sure that double cream isn't restricted to those decadent aesthetes in New York - I've seen it at at least one of those places. And thank you - now I know to stick with the heavy cream if I want my whipping cream to stay whipped.
Charles Dodgson: fat-free, sugar-free hot fudge sauce is warm cocoa powder slurry. Assuming it is not also chocolate-free.
"UFOs, are as real as the airplanes that fly over your head."
This is something that irks me almost as much as the metonymy of "September 11th" for the terrorist attacks on Manhattan and Washington; UFO stands for "Unidentified Flying Object." Technically, if you can't tell what something in the sky is, it is a UFO to you. So if you can't tell that it's an airplane, an airplane flying over your head *is* a UFO.
You know, sometimes I hear about books that contain "explicit" or "graphic" language. I get a little excited, sometimes, when I do, because I think, "Great. A writer who writes clearly, and precisely."
Alas, that is usually not what is meant. Mostly, it just means lots of "f-bombs" (does MakingLight refrain from profanity?). Which, while versatile, perhaps, is often not precise. Or explicit.
(I'm really not a pedant, I swear)
Sandy says that Asimov wrote 400-plus books in 60-ish years. But how can be sure that he didn't have an underground room filled with dwarves slaving away?
Will, I think that the most foul language I ever heard was in 1951's Angels in the Outfield. The team's coach had to tendency to blow his top and would literally make Janet Leigh's character blanche. How did they pull that off in a Fifties movie without getting censored? By having his words played backward on the soundtrack. Quite effective.
As for people who in those days managed to sneak a few ones past the censors, Billy Wilder seemed to be good at that. There was a scene in Some Like It Hot where a man trying to flirt with Jack Lemon who's in drag and playing the cello. The man asks 'her' if she prefers plucking her instrument, and Lemon responds that 'she' prefers slapping it.
Larry --- a clarification: I was mystified not by the absence of fat and sugar from buttermilk, but by their absence from something described as "fudge", for which sugar and butter are generally high on the traditional list of ingredients...
Will Entrekin:
Yes, and what really makes me livid is when people refer to the "metric system", when they mean the International System of Units.
I mean, every system of measurement is a metric system, right? Some metric systems employ grams, some employ ounces. A system of measurement that employs inches and feet is a metric system too!
And I'm sure I'm not a pedant either.
They simply call it the 'metric' system because its base unit is the 'meter', which means 'measurement'. Sounds silly? No more so than calling a book the 'Bible', which comes from the Greek word for 'book'.
On theft, from Slashdot:
dada21 (163177) said:
"I never did it (even though I am an anarchocapitalist and anti-government/anti-mercantilism, I would never steal), ..."
That is all.
-r.
Do you have any trouble from Customs/Agriculture when you bring cream into the US? Those folks are positively coy about revealing what's allowed and what's seized on arrival.
I've never had any trouble importing the stuff. Clotted cream is neither meat nor vegetable, which seems to be what gets them all hot and bothered in the food realm.
Then again, I've never been given the body-cavity search coming in from the UK. I do have to unwrap and explain the package before boarding the plane (the perils of an Islamic name, you know), but so far nobody on either end has had anything to say other than that they love the stuff on scones.
geez, isn't anyone else around here lactose-intolerant?
I am. But some things are worth being a bit unwell over.
Thanks, Serge. I was kinda kidding.
Sorry, Tad. I feel silly now. Won't be the first time. Nor the last, I'm afraid.
"Charles Dodgson" - Oh, that's different. Nevermind
BTW - I'd call fat-free, sugar-free fudge "sludge", which might offer an insight as to its origin.
All this talk of heavy cream reminds me of my father.
When he was still working as a salesman in Wisconsin, depending on which client he was visiting, he would stop a different cheese factory. He once got a brick cheese that was so sharp, he had to stop the car and put it in the trunk because of the odor. It was yummy!
Anyways, there was one cheese factory where you could take your own jar in and get a quart of "cream" for $1. It was so thick that you could turn the jar upside down and it wouldn't come out. He would make the most amazing french silk chocolate ice-cream out of it (excuse me while I clean the saliva off of my keyboard).
Sadly, in the last two years I've come over all lactose-intolerant, so no more mega-rich dairy desserts for me. ...SOB... I keep begging for my wife to put me out of my misery, but she keeps finding things around the house that need doing...
John
TMBG, check. Peter Blegvad, check. State songs: my favorite is Your State's Name Here by Lou and Peter Berryman.
Debra Doyle, thanks for mentioning Ro-Tel...it is, indeed, the superior ingredient for queso.
It also makes a good base for "homemade" salsa, if you don't have the time and inclination to cut up a lot of fresh ingredients. I've made several batches with it, to generally as good a response as the all-fresh ingredient varieties.
What bothers me about the SI (thanks for clearing it up, Tad. I'd always called it the metric system, myself, because that's what I was taught it was called when I was in school) is that the U.S. doesn't use it. It's, like, us, Guam, and Liberia, or something, isn't it? (it's not really those last two. I can't remember the other beligerent ones).
“The metric system is the tool of the devil. My car gets forty rods to the hogshead, and that's the way I likes it!”
-Grampa Simpson
Serge: you remind me that I need to buy that movie. I've never seen it, but my local drugstores often have the DVD for ten bucks. I'd be willing to wager it's money better spent than the four bucks I spend on... well. I don't remember the last movie I rented, but I'd probably enjoy "Some Like it Hot" more (although, I didn't enjoy "The Apartment" all that much. And that was Wilder, too, I believe).
I'm fond of a gag in Futurama where a character was baking a cake whose recipe included Third & Third & Third. Things will be different in The Future, you betcha.
Yes, Will, I think The Appartment was a Wilder movie, but I've never seen it. But you definitely want to take a look at Some Like It Hot and has got a great ending line ("Nobody is perfect.") In a more serious vein, Wilder also did Hollywood Boulevard, which is where the line "I'm ready for my closeup, Mr. De Mille" comes from. And he also did Ace in the Hole with Kirk Douglas.
(I'm really not a pedant, I swear)
Um...I hate to disagree with you, but...like me, you are a pedant. You can be a recovering pedant if you like...I'll keep you apprised (not "appraised"!) of upcoming meetings of PA.
Look, we shorten everything and use metonymy. That's the way it is. 'The attacks of September 11, 2001' is too long a phrase to say over and over. 'Nine-eleven' has become the pronunciation used by most. If you think you're irritated by that, ask someone whose birthday is on that date!
People who say "Technically,..." are almost always pedants. Yes, I know, me too! You're making the primary error that smart people make with regard to language: confusing a word's etymology with its meaning. Not the same thing at all, for most words. This is because linguistic change is going too fast for you, and you liked the way things were before they changed.
If I haven't made it clear, I share this issue.
The word UFO (now pronounced /yuwefó/; the former pronunciation /yúwfo/ appears to be obsolete) originally meant "Unidentified Flying Object." I believe the military now calls that a "Bogie" (correct me if I'm wrong, someone). And individual identification ability was never the meaning AFAIK; it meant unidentified by anyone (at least anyone in communication with the speaker). At any rate, it now means an alien spaceship. The expansion of the acronym is only of historical interest at this point.
I have a friend who likes to point out that the Beatles song "I Wanna Hold Your Hand" has explicit lyrics; the narrator indicates precisely what he means to say (and do). She, too, is a pedant, but at least in her case (and increasingly in mine and, I hope, yours) a pedant for amusement only; she doesn't insist on the literal, broader interpretation.
'Explicit' now means "explicitly sexual," if you use it without explanation or context, and for certain uses. Thus an "explicit novel" has the sexual meaning, whereas "explicit directions to the theatre" does not -- even if the play is an "explicit play"!
A couple of linguistic facts (you won't like them, but I don't like the fact that the speed of light is so damned slow either):
One, words change their meanings and forms over time. The general becomes specific, the specific becomes general, short words fill in for longer phrases. There is no fighting this, however little we (you and I and all the other persons afflicted with the heartbreak of pedantry) may like it. It's a force of nature.
Two, the dictionary definition of a word is at best the tip of a very large iceberg; its usage is generally much more complex than can be captured in such a document. The true meaning of a word is what is understood when the word is said. Just as the two southern boys I've been arguing with lately can't fly the Confederate flag without racist meaning (even though they themselves are not actually racist) you cannot cause the word 'explicit' to mean only 'clear and precise'.
No natural language has semantics that simple, and English is worse than most.
See you at the next PA meeting!
Are all of the other lactose-intolerant people here too sensitive for Lactaid chewables (and caplets, etc.) to help? I find them completely effective myself.
Serge: reaching back, I think "Tonneres tonnants de Brest" was translated as "Thundering typhoons!" which catches the sense rather nicely. His other exclamation was "Blistering barnacles!" but I can't remember the French original.
I fondly remember reading the Tintin books in English as a kid and pestering my parents to explain his insults, which were wonderful streams of polysyllables: "Anacolouthon! Pithecanthropus! Poltroon! Bashibazouk! Ectoplasm! Visigoths!" and which I think are more or less unchanged from the French.
A quick google reveals this, a complete listing of all Haddock insults. I love the internet.
For informal measurements, "that's the way we've always done it" will probably last a long time. I have a feel for what 165 pounds is, but if someone gives their weight as 12 stone, or 75 kilos, I have to do the math to turn it into intuitive-for-me units. And height in cm is a miserable conversion for me, for some reason.
I went to school in Montreal, and I have a gut feel for any temperature in C between 10 and -40, but above 10 C I have to do the math. I guess it's really a matter of familiarity.
Lactaid works well enough for me, but people vary widely - I know people who can't touch anything with a noticeable trace of dairy at all.
Hmm... The Abyss is on the Skiffy Channel right now. A few minutes ago was the scene where Mastrantonio comes literally face to face with a pillar of water animated by aliens. When she realizes that the pillar is mimicking her every expressions, she sticks her tongue at it.
That got me wondering if this was such a hot idea. And THAT got me realizing that I don't know if all human cultures see tongue-sticking as a dismissive gesture. After all, not all human cultures think that kissing on the mouth is OK.
True, chimps do it.
Still, I wonder about the universality of tongue-sticking. And why it means what it means to primates.
"Thundering typhoons!"
"Blistering barnacles!"
Yes, ajay, I'd say the translations accurately captured Captain Haddock's favorite mode of expression.
debcha: I usually go to the Whole Foods at Fresh Pond; I live just off of Concord, so it's easier to get there. I'll have to check out the others more carefully.
Ayse: Thanks for the tip. Next time I'm headed to the UK, I'll bring a cooler.
Dan R.: I think Explorateur runs about 80%. Hmm...another quick check with the ever-useful Oxford Guide to Food: they say 75%. Yummy, in any case; and small enough that a small group can buy one whole and use it up before it goes bad.
Dan R. again: Fast food focuses on salt and fat because they're the cheapest means of adding or carrying flavor. Some budding epicures insist that taste has been bred or processed (or both) out of modern foodstuffs, leading to fat and salt overdoses. Those epicures are often in the awkward position of insisting that something they've never tasted is better than anything they have. I take their views with a big dose of research and, of course, a grain of salt. (That's 64.8 mg, for you SI buffs). I have a whole list of books on this kind of thing, if anybody's interested.
Dan R. yet again, re health food: One of my objections to most food movements is the idea, explicit or implicit, that if food tastes good, it must be bad for you. For instance, the Laurel's Kitchen strand of vegetarianism is pretty much explicit about bland food being the aim, for health and spiritual reasons both, of their cookbook (check the introduction for details). I keep my copy around as a cautionary tale.
John Peacock: Sounds like double cream to me. I feel for you, particularly with such a history of wonderful dairy experiences. If lactose per se is your enemy, you may have some luck with lactase tablets. Lara has had good luck with them in the past. Also, in theory, thicker the cream will have much less lactose than milk, as it's displaced by all that butterfat. (Of course, it's also richer and therefore harder to digest...)
the idea, explicit or implicit, that if food tastes good, it must be bad for you
My mother's view was that if a meal looked good and tasted good, it probably was good for you. No, we didn't do rich desserts all the time - but there usually was a dessert, even if it was just cookies. (Home-made ice cream was high on our list, but cranking the freezer was work.) Bland was not part of it, except perhaps as contrast to something with lots of flavor (rice or mashed potatoes with something spicy, frex.)
The upside down jar of olive oil went in the freezer this morning, the better to dump off anything that wasn't oil. The top layer having been dumped, I now have a jar of very cold rosemary scented sludge. :-) I wonder what the results would be like if I used a tablespoonful of this stuff as the oil in the next batch in the bread machine...
Xopher: I can't fully agree with your comment, for several reasons. Briefly:
About September 11th and the terrorist attacks that occurred that day four years ago- we don't refer to Pearl Harbor as "December--- (what is it, 8th? 7th? It's this week, isn't it?)" We don't refer to the droppings of the bombs on Hiroshima and Nagasaki by a date, or the... okay, if I go much farther, I'm going to reveal my ignorance of history. The storming of Normandy. The battle of Waterloo.
If we referred to the terrorist attacks on the World Trade Center and Pentagon as the Jihadist attacks, or whatever else, I'd be fine with it. It's not the metonymy; it's the loss of information conveyed. Of course, if we referred to them by a more accurate name, we might start reminding people that we subsequently attacked people who had absolutely no connection to it, and God forbid.
I'm all for changes in the language. It's important, and English is perhaps the most fluid of all. It creates some inherently odd exceptions ("stride" becomes "strode," so why doesn't "glide" become "glode" or "slide" become "slode"?), but, honestly, breaking exceptions like that interests me. Excites me. It's *fun* to make the language work in interesting and novel ways.
I understand how things take on different meanings (the greatest example I can think of is the swastika). Yes, of course, change happens over time.
But change does not occur by singular instance; it requires agreement, does it not? It *is* possible to quash it when necessary. And I think "September 11th" is necessary quashing. Unless we're just going to start referring to everything by dates. So FEMA dropped the ball on August 29th (er. That was when Katrina made landfall, wasn't it?), and Oswald acted alone on November 22nd.
Victor S.
Interested!
Titles, authors, ISBNs or Amazon links are all appropriate.
Serge, there are quite a few cultures which use the tongue-out gesture in different contexts. I'm going to be vague right now because I really don't want to spend the next three hours double-checking the specific cultures to make sure I don't conflate or confuse them or attribute the wrong gesture/meaning to some innocent (or guilty) culture.
One way to use the tongue-out is with a loud, definite intake of air as a respectful greeting, impolying that you're making sure that none of your inferior-status cooties get on the person you're greeting and whose superior status you are reinforcing.
Another way is to combine it with wide rolling eyes and aggressive posture which does not dismiss the audience but does inform them that you are tough and in ceremonial mode.
Another is to be presenting the tongue for bloodletting, also cermeonial, and it implies that the person you are with is equal in stature to you and you are both rather elite to be participating in this very important world-balancing and restoring sacrifice (Central America).
Another way to use it, this in Western cultures, is with wide eyes, raised eyebrows, and spread arms and hands, and it is a gesture of surprise: if there is a very wide gaping smile, it's pleased surprise, and if the mouth is in an O it's alarmed surprise, and if the mouth is pursed up at top, it's frightened or disgusted surprise.
The tongue is a very versatile and flexible thing, in communication as well as in other functions.
(PA, Xopher?)
J Austin - I found my family's chess pie recipe - no buttermilk. I asked my grandmother who is the Queen of All Things Buttermilk, and she said you should be able to substitute buttermilk for the cream in a chess pie, but you'll probably need to adjust the butter amount and perhaps add an egg. She said this is what her grandmother did when she had more buttermilk than cream around the farm. I hope this helps!
Thanks, Lucy. You know, I love finding out the reason behind things. It was such a kick to me to find that offering to shake hands thus shows that you don't have a dagger ready to stab the other person.
Comments on Open thread 55: