And friends, if you're going to be driving anywhere where it gets the kind of cold described above, please, please remember to pack your car with emergency supplies, and use good sense when deciding whether or not to drive somewhere in bad conditions. You can freeze to death in a stuck car.

Posted December 16, 2005 1:44 PM by Aconite

As a corollary, the family friend who taught me to ski impressed upon me very firmly that the time to stop skiing is at the point you think you have "one last run" in you. By that point, you're tired and prone to injury. It is also likely that the sun is going down and the mountain is getting colder and the ski patrol is going to find you harder to see.

Posted December 16, 2005 1:51 PM by Jill Smith

Here in Tennessee, and I suspect in most other states, there are areas where your cell phone won't work. Some of these are state parks with popular hiking trails.

If you're cold and confused enough, GPS won't do you any good--you have to think well ehough to figure out "Where do I go from here to get where I want to be?"

Much of the United States (and elsewhere, in temperate climates) has times of the year when weather can go from "fine hiking weather" to "chilly enough to produce hypothermia if you're out in it without warm clothing*". In the Great Smoky Mountains, neither April nor October can be relied upon, and I wouldn't get too cocky about May and September, either, especially if it rains. Now contemplate how much farther south the Smokies, the Blue Ridge, or the Cumberland Plateau in east-central Tennessee, are from Mount Washington, the mountain that kills all year round. Places with a high altitude can be counted on for changeable weather; the farther north they are, the worse the changes are likely to be.

All the weather divinities in the world have had reputations as flighty bitches--because you can't count on the weather to be on your side. Ever. At all.

*Which is still above freezing.

Posted December 16, 2005 1:58 PM by fidelio

If you live someplace warm and decide to go to the mountains to look at the snow, remember that even if it's warm where you live, snow is cold. Dress for the snow, because it's bigger than you are. Don't go walking on steep slopes, because it's a long way down. Especially avoid streams, because if it's cold enough for snow to be on the ground, it's cold enough for those tempting rocks to have ice on and around them. It's really a long way down if you fall on ice; sometimes it's all the way down that mountainside. Rocks may break you fall, but they'll break you in the process.

Posted December 16, 2005 2:07 PM by P J Evans

Young Charlotte lived by the mountainside in a cold and dreary spot
No other dwelling for miles around, except her father's cot
And yet, on many a winter's eve, young swains would gather there
For her father kept a social board and she was very fair

Her father loved to see her dressed prim as a city belle
She was the only child he had and he loved his daughter well
In a village some fifteen miles off there's a merry ball tonight
Though the driving wind is cold as death their hearts were free and light

And yet how beams those sparkling eyes as the well-known sound she hears
And dashing up to her father's door, young Charles and his sleigh appears
"Oh, daughter dear," her mother says, "those blankets round you fold
For it is a dreadful night to ride and you'll catch your death of cold"

"Oh nay, oh nay," young Charlotte said, and she laughed like a gypsy queen
"To ride with blankets muffled up one never would be seen"
Her gloves and bonnet being on, she stepped into the sleigh
And away they rode by the mountain side and it's o'er the hills and away

There's music in those merry bells as o'er the hills we go
What a creaking noise those runners make as they strike the frozen snow
And muffled faces silent are as the first five miles are passed
When Charles with few and shivering words the silence broke at last

"What a dreadful night it is to ride. My lines I scarce can hold"
When she replied in a feeble voice, "I am extremely cold"
Charles cracked his whip and urged his team far faster than before
Until at length five other miles in silence were passed o'er

"Charlotte, how fast the freezing ice is gathering on my brow"
When she replied in a feeble voice, "I'm getting warmer now"
And away they ride by the mountain side beneath the cold starlight
Until at length the village inn and the ballroom are in sight

When they drove up, Charles he got out and offered her his hand
"Why sit you there like a monument that hath no power to stand?"
He asked her once, he asked her twice but she answered never a word
He offered her his hand again, but still she never stirred

[And there he sat down by her side while bitter tears did flow
And cried," My own, my charming bride, 'tis you may never know."
He twined his arms around her neck, he kissed her marble brow,
His thoughts flew back to where she said,"I'm growing warmer now."]*

He took her hand into his own, twas cold as any stone
He tore the veil from off her face and the cold stars on her shone
And quick into the lighted hall her lifeless form he bore
Fair Charlotte was a frozen corpse and a word she ne'er spoke more

He took her back into the sleigh and quickly hurried home
And when he came to her father's door oh how her parents moaned
They mourned the loss of their daughter dear while Charles wept o'er their gloom
Until at length, Charles died of grief and they both lay in one tomb

File this under Things You Learn From Folk Music. First, silk wasn't a bad choice (silk or poly-pro makes great undies when you're wearing wool), but she apparently didn't have enough layers.

Next, at the moment she said "I'm feeling warmer now," young Charles should have stopped the sleigh, dug a snow cave, said "To mean you any harm, my love,/ Is a thing that I do scorn./ If you let me lie all night with you/ I'll marry you in the morn," and provided body heat.

Third, see above about non-survivable conditions.

There's a kind of doll called the Frozen Charlotte, and a kind of dessert as well.

Posted December 16, 2005 2:08 PM by James D. Macdonald

I have a dumb question. I can't wear wool. What's my next best option?

I don't go hiking, but do have to walk daily, even when it gets chilly (4 with windchills below, recently). I have heard that Coolmax makes good long undies. Any thoughts?

Posted December 16, 2005 2:12 PM by ElizabethVomMarlowe

Coolmax, GorTex, and PolyPro are all good fabrics if you can't do wool.

BTW -- your prime hypothermia weather is forty to sixty degrees (Farenheit), light rain, and a stiff wind blowing.

Hypothermia inside a house is common. Especially for elderly who may not be able to afford heat. Look for hypothermia whenever you find a patient on a floor. Injuries that limit motion make hypothermia more likely.

Posted December 16, 2005 2:20 PM by James D. Macdonald

Speaking of wool, what can you use that would work similarly well in wet and cold conditions? All the survival notes speak highly of it, but I haven't read many recommendations for other materials if you happen to be deathly allergic to wool.

Posted December 16, 2005 2:21 PM by Dru

Elizabeth, can you wear silk? If you can, I highly recommend Wintersilks long underwear. It comes in several different weights.

Over top of the long johns and regular clothes, I'd suggest outerwear thats a combo of Goretex and Polar Fleece. (Try checking Lands End and L.L.Bean.)

Posted December 16, 2005 2:22 PM by Lori Coulson

Doh!

Elizabeth beat me to it, dallied too long on the submit button. Does the recommendation hold true for wet conditions as well as dry?

Posted December 16, 2005 2:25 PM by Dru

I was recently some-online-where trying to compare deaths due to indoor hypothermia in nations with different building and welfare codes, but no-one could find really useful numbers. What got batted around was the increase in mortality as temperatures dropped, but there are confounding factors, like flu season; though I should think flu and hypothermia exaggerate each other's effects.

Posted December 16, 2005 2:28 PM by clew

And remember that Polar Fleece and similar materials do not block wind. I make sure my fleeces are inside a wind-blocking layer.

Please remember this for your animals, too. Wind, which cuts right through their fluffy insulating coats, makes hypothermia a danger at temperatures above freezing.

Posted December 16, 2005 2:29 PM by Aconite

And...

If it's snowing or might possibly snow, don't leave any of your gear lying flat on the ground. The best prep in the world won't matter a damn if it gets buried right under your nose.

For those who haven't been involved in Scouting or learned this info otherwise and are wondering why alcohol is a bad idea - it opens blood vessels, which has the consequence of carrying heat away from the core of the body even faster than would be the case. In other words, it makes you hypothermic even faster. So just don't.

Following up Aconite's first comment, I'll bet that four Mylar emergency blankets and a box of flares together cost $20 before tax, if not less.

Even after almost ten years total of living within easy driving distance of the Missouri River, it didn't occur to me until just last week (when it got to fifteen below Fahrenheit here) that below ten above, maybe more, the level of discomfort felt by decreasing temperatures (alone) achieves its floor. When I mentioned this to my father (who lives in San Diego, but grew up in Idaho and went on lots of hunting trips in the mountains when he was a kid), without breaking flow he answered, "Sure. That's what makes it so dangerous." This is borne out by the verses that Jim posted.

Mount Hood near Portland is an easy enough climb that according to popular theory, a well-guided wilderness n00b can try for the summit in good weather. Alas, some of those have learned the hard way what fidelio says about the unpredictability of weather at altitude.

Posted December 16, 2005 2:36 PM by ben

Interesting data on hypothermia, part 2,245: When rewarming a person, at the point the rectal temperature is rising, the atrial temperature is still falling.

The reason you want to handle cold people carefully, and especially avoid artificial rewarming if the person has decreased mental status is: The limbs by that time are full of cold, stagnant, de-oxygenated, acidic blood. If you start moving that stuff into central ciculation, you're going to induce ventricular fibrillation. At this point your life will become even more exciting.

Next tip: To avoid hypothermia, or to treat mild hypothermia (patient can still guard his airway), give warm liquid Jell-O or warm apple juice by mouth. Avoid caffeine.

Posted December 16, 2005 2:40 PM by James D. Macdonald

I was about to write: I live in the San Francisco Bay Area, where even when we think it's cold, it's really not -- and then Jim posted this: BTW -- your prime hypothermia weather is forty to sixty degrees (Farenheit), light rain, and a stiff wind blowing. We get exactly that kind of weather all winter. I didn't know... Thanks.

Posted December 16, 2005 2:40 PM by Lizzy L

Lizzy L: there's a line, attributed to Twain: "San Francisco is the only place where you can lie under a rose bush in full bloom and freeze to death."

This is not strictly correct (I'm sure there are other places where you can freeze while lying under a blooming rose) but it would appear to be otherwise correct. (We used wool blankets even in the summer!)

(BTW: loved your 'grumpy rant #1'. ROFL!)

Posted December 16, 2005 2:48 PM by P J Evans

Try watching the day trippers on Haleakala (Maui). Many do not realize that they'll need cold weather gear -- it's a bright sunny day in the balmy islands, right?

Wrong -- you need pants, solid shoes (not flip flops or sandals) and several layers of warm clothes, at the least.

So here are the tourists, aloha shirts, shorts and sandals, freezing their buns off and surprised that it's cold at 14,000 feet!

Sigh -- it's even better if they've visited the winery on the other side of the volcano first.

Posted December 16, 2005 2:48 PM by Lori Coulson

The mention of Frozen Charlotte up thread is tickling something in my brain and won't let me rest. The internets don't seem to be much help -- not because the info isn't out there but because I can't come up with the right string to search with because I can't remember all of the details.

There was a young adult (?) novel that featured a character who either a) is named Charlotte because of the poem, b) becomes obsessed with the Frozen Charlotte dolls or c) is named after the doll because her mother is obsessed with them.

I know. Not much help.

Part of me wants to think it was something by Paul Zindel. But I make no promises.

Anyone? Or is this even too vague for the collective mind?

Posted December 16, 2005 2:59 PM by Adrienne

Lori: Whereas we Hawai'i locals break out our sweaters and complain bitterly when, as today, the mercury drops below 70F in the mornings. You'd never catch me up there in less than a heavy jacket, jeans, and good shoes.

Posted December 16, 2005 3:00 PM by Eric Sadoyama

Dru, et al --

Wet means you're dead.

This isn't strictly true, and it's the bias of an upbringing where it got cold enough that sweating could kill you if you did it away from shelter, but it's a dandy thumb rule. (This is, tangentially, why I don't like goosedown parkas -- they're entirely lovely insulation until they get a bit damp, in which case you're biscuited.)

"Wool works when its wet" means something much closer to "sweat will kill you slower" than "getting wet isn't a problem"; it is.

It is difficult to too highly recommend GoreTex or similar wind pants; I see a lot of people at the bus stop in fairly serious jackets and a pair of jeans. You're as warm as the worst layer, too; expedition grade parkas won't save you if you're not wearing a hat, or only have a single layer on your legs, or no wind-stopping layer on your legs, or similar.

All breathable membrane fabrics don't work if they're not clean. If you wore it last year, and haven't washed and re-waterproofed it, it won't work to keep the wind out anywhere near as well as the label claims it does. There are specific products to wash membrane fabrics in; detergent will generally make things worse.

No one is coming to get you -- plan on this basis.

Lighting a fire on snow makes a slushy, soaking mess. Lighting a fire at all in windy conditions, and a useful fire moreso, is remarkably difficult. (Use number six hundred and eight for those mylar survival blankets -- wind stop and heat reflector.)

Posted December 16, 2005 3:00 PM by kGraydon

Also, remember: Frozen lakes aren't (unless the locals are fishing on 'em).

Posted December 16, 2005 3:09 PM by Jim Kiley

James, would you please define "artificial rewarming"?

Posted December 16, 2005 3:13 PM by Aconite

I've done hypothermia, its not fun at all. You really don't think well at all and its absoloutely terrifying as yourealize what's happening.

How did it happen? I was sailing a small boat (sunfish) when I was a teen and the weather changed - temperature dropped like a rock, wind came up like hell. Couldn't get it to point worth a damn in the weather and by the time I was frozen, wrecking the boat on the breakwater seemed like a dandy idea. I could walk to shelter then.

Fortunately, the race committee remembered me after counting noses on shore and came to rescue me.

Posted December 16, 2005 3:15 PM by Trey

Is that "k" in "kGraydon" like the "t" in "Haydent"?

I grew up in New England. For many years our house didn't even have central heating. I don't understand some people's enjoyment of winter sports, skiing, etc.

Winter is not a leisure activity. It's a test of survival. Sometimes it's fun, but it is always serious.

Posted December 16, 2005 3:24 PM by Laura Roberts

Artificial rewarming = heat packs, warm baths, etc.

There have been some amazing recoveries from low temperatures. Even apparent death (fixed dilated pupils, no apparent pulse, no apparent respiration, unresponsive to painful stimuli) isn't really dead. We have a saying, "You aren't dead until you're warm and dead."

Eventually we do rewarm people, but it's done in closely controlled conditions in a hospital. Things like filling the abdominal cavity with warm saline.

Posted December 16, 2005 3:24 PM by James D. Macdonald

There's a reason our ancestors, who did not have GoreTex and other miracles of modern textile chemistry, were prone to long wool overcoats and to things like waxed canvas dusters--these provided another layer for the legs. Nowadays, we like short coats--they're easier to move in, and the extra fabric is a nuisance in a vehicle. But if you walk a lot, or stand about in the cold, add something to make up for the lost layers if you wear a short coat. (This is also why, about a hundred years ago, women in the western world still wore wool flannel petticoats in chilly weather. In fact, my great-grandmother was still faithful to hers in the 1930s. In a house heated by woodstoves and fireplaces, even in a mild climate like the Ozarks, it made a big difference.)

Among the useful things stashed behind the seat in my truck is a box of trashbags--in addition to anything else they may be good for, they are acceptable emergency rain ponchos, and will block some wind*. I wouldn't want to test my luck in them for very long, but I do my best to avoid going to places where I'd need more without bringing more. However, the trashbag is better than nothing at all.

*Note: "some" does not mean "lots" or "strong", espcially as these terms are understood in serious snow and blizzard country. For Nashville, where you can also freeze to death under a blooming rosebush, the trashbag is a useful stopgap. (Unless the wind is, in fact, a tornado--in which case, hypothermia is the least of your problems.)

Posted December 16, 2005 3:24 PM by fidelio

I have a long waterproof (and moderately windproof) japara coat. It is disliked by various members of my family, who think that a) it's too big, b) it's full-length c) a and b result in it looking ugly. In vain do I point out that it was bought specifically for standing around on British Rail platforms in the middle of winter, and thus I *want* it to be almost dragging on the floor. Keeps my legs warm, see, even on British Rail platforms in the middle of winter. And the British winter may not be as cold as North American winters, but this thing called sleet can lose you heat very fast indeed.

The bit *I* object to with said coat is that it's now pretty much impossible to get a japara, full-length or calf-length, with a proper wool lining. They're all cotton-lined, because the shops found that given a choice between cheaper cotton lining and costlier wool lining, most people would go for the cheaper japara even when the salesperson explained to them why Wool Is Good.

Posted December 16, 2005 3:35 PM by Julia Jones

Eric, I'm about 600 ft above Pearl, and it was in the low sixties last night. Three blanket country, especially if I like windows open at night.

Posted December 16, 2005 3:40 PM by Linkmeister

Yeah- the artificial rewarming stuff is neat, in terms of what they can bring folks back from. There are some more, ah, extreme methods that I'm familiar with, but they're usually done in the cardiac OR under very controlled situations, where they've unhooked your heart and cooled you down to anywhere from 28-15 C.

Posted December 16, 2005 3:42 PM by Moleman

When my dad's ship got back to Pearl at the end of WWII (they'd spent the time in the south Pacific), the men on lookout wore parkas.

Now a bit on shivering:

Muscles create heat when they work. As your core temperature goes down, you start to shiver -- that's involuntary muscle movement for the purpose of creating warmth. This burns up glucose in the bloodstream. I'm sure y'all have heard that things go from bad to worse rapidly when the patient stops shivering? That's because the body's used up all its glucose. The warming stops, so the core temperature starts to plummet. Plus, at this point, you're now hypoglycemic with all the signs and symptoms associated with that unhappy condition.

Another mystery revealed: When persons with European ancestry get cold, their hands and feet start aching every eight to ten minutes. That's because the palms of the hands and the soles of the feet contain what's called the A-V Shunt (for Arterial-Venous Shunt). Every eight to ten minutes that shunt opens up, dumping warm arterial blood directly into the veins (rather than going through the capillary beds). This is a cold adaptation thanks to the Cro-Magnon ancestors who had to deal with glaciers and such.

You can use this to advantage -- warming the palms of the hands warms the central circulation. That's where the little chemical warm packs that slip into gloves come in handy, and why folks warm their hands at the fire.

Next mystery revealed: Why exposure to cold makes you need to urinate.

When the arms and legs get cold, the blood vessels in them constrict, slowing blood flow, to keep from dumping too much heat to the environment. When the vessels constrict, the blood moves into the body core, raising the blood pressure. The body reacts, lowering the blood pressure by dumping water out through the kidneys.

Posted December 16, 2005 4:01 PM by James D. Macdonald

(This is also why, about a hundred years ago, women in the western world still wore wool flannel petticoats in chilly weather. In fact, my great-grandmother was still faithful to hers in the 1930s. In a house heated by woodstoves and fireplaces, even in a mild climate like the Ozarks, it made a big difference.)

Jim or other knowledgeable persons -

How dreadful would it be to use cotton flannel instead of wool flannel for such a petticoat? The latter is several times more expensive, harder to find, and a mild allergen, though it wouldn't be next to my skin. The flannel petticoat would be one of six layers on my lower body, with the others all being lightweight cotton, along with a wool cloak over all. I might be persuaded to make flannel drawers as well, but those would definitely have to be cotton flannel.

I'd be moving around and ice skating (slowly and carefully) but it would still be outdoors in a New England winter. I would not be leaving the confines of a town or otherwise attempting to survive outside civilization, but I don't want to have to be constantly retreating indoors either.

Posted December 16, 2005 4:09 PM by Susan

A frequent lurker provoked to praise.

I am a resident of the scenic state of Alaska, and I have the nearly overmastering urge to print out copies of Jim's initial post and keep them in my pack for handing out to the obviously clueless.

The tourists in jeans have some excuse. The locals in the mountains in flipflops and cotton sweatshirts defy belief. Yes, Anchorage is the largest city in AK. Yes, we have coffee stands on most corners. We even have most of the big box stores. People still die within city limits for being stupid about the terrain, the weather, and the wildlife. And yes, it can snow in the mountains in July on a day that started clear as a bell.

Posted December 16, 2005 4:10 PM by Sarah

Susan: How dreadful would it be to use cotton flannel instead of wool flannel for such a petticoat? ... The flannel petticoat would be one of six layers on my lower body, with the others all being lightweight cotton, along with a wool cloak over all.

So the cotton would be situated so as to absorb sweat? Cotton doesn't insulate worth squat when wet, no matter which direction the moisture comes from.

Tangentally, a woman who raised sheep and spun wool once lectured me that most people who say they have allergies to wool actually only have contact dermatitis, the difference being that for the latter you don't have to be rushed to the ER. I offer that FWIW.

Posted December 16, 2005 4:17 PM by Aconite

So the cotton would be situated so as to absorb sweat? Cotton doesn't insulate worth squat when wet, no matter which direction the moisture comes from.

In order from the inside out: my body, heavy cotton stockings, wool socks, mid-calf-length cotton drawers (could do in flannel), cotton chemise, corset (layers of cotton drill), hypothetical flannel petticoat, cotton corded petticoat, second cotton corded petticoat, cotton tucked petticoat (covers upper body as well), chemisette (cotton dickey with high neck), dress (cotton, ankle-length, long sleeves stuffed with polyfill - avoiding down due to allergies), pelerine (short cape), lacy cap, bonnet, wool cloak, gloves, large furry muff. Oh, and ice skates - modern ones, alas.

The only other thing I might add would be silk socks under the stockings. As far as absorbing sweat goes, let's just say there's no reason ever to wash the dress, since sweat won't ever get that far. The question is whether the number of layers makes up for the thinness of them and whether a wool flannel petticoat would be so significantly better than a cotton flannel one that I should go to the cost and hassle of finding the fabric.

Tangentally, a woman who raised sheep and spun wool once lectured me that most people who say they have allergies to wool actually only have contact dermatitis, the difference being that for the latter you don't have to be rushed to the ER. I offer that FWIW.

Breaking out in an itchy rash. I don't care what it is precisely, I just don't want to do it. It's not life-threatening and does not seem to be a problem as long as the wool isn't directly against my skin.

Posted December 16, 2005 4:33 PM by Susan

Susan, I think the problem is not so much the dress as the cotton layers already next to your skin.

Itchy rash sounds like dermatitis, though I agree: whatever it is, I don't want it.

Posted December 16, 2005 4:47 PM by Aconite

Laura --

'k' means 'up', and sometimes it (and 'j', which means 'down') leak in on me if I am so foolish as to scroll over a text input box.

Susan --

It's not likely to matter. Petticoats are effectively a way of stopping air currents and maintaining bulk, rather than a conforming layer, and since you're not going to be sitting down much when skating, you don't have the problem of converting them into a conforming layer to worry about. (Unlike people with drafty houses and wood heat and a desire to not stand up all day.)

The single best thing you could do for warmth is likely to make the calf length drawers out of a modern treated cotton waffle-structure fabric, but I suspect that'd leach all the fun out of it.

Posted December 16, 2005 4:47 PM by Graydon

Susan: I suppose you could do a layer of cotton (or linen) next to the skin, then go to wool.

I have some waffle-stitch cotton thermals (Swiss made, not full length). They do nicely at temperatures down to about zero, for travel/shopping purposes; I also have a down coat to keep me warm (last used on a day when it was 35F/35mph). If I were going to be out in real cold for long periods, I'd consult with someone from Cold Winter Areas (James's advice will do fine; I also know someone from Fargo via Minneapolis) about what works well.

Posted December 16, 2005 4:49 PM by P J Evans

Is there some reason you're avoiding other-than-natural fibers?

Silk stockings and underdrawers might be a good plan. I don't know how linen would work as an insulating fabric.

Posted December 16, 2005 4:49 PM by James D. Macdonald

When wet, cotton, even heavy cotton flannel, does not perform like wool.
Which brings us to: Will the flannel petticoat be getting wet?

If you aren't absolutely sold on total authenticity, and can locate some, there are polyester textiles that resemble fine wool, and, thanks to the contruction of the polyester fiber, have the ability to lock in air almost as well. Another possibility would be a heavy-weight silk noil, in a tight weave. Neither is authentic to period, but will pass in a dim light, or under your skirts, so to speak, since wool doesn't have to be thick and heavy to be warm. (I am currently wearing a thin wool crepe shirt not much heavier than cotton--over a silk undershirt because I'm not heroic.)
Wool blends are also often less scratchy--whether wool/silk, or something at a slightly lower end of the price range. Worsted is less scratchy than woolen, and then there are tropical worsted suitings in wool blends, which are often on sale this time of year, and are not at all scratchy. It's not the same as all wool, of course.

From what my mother says, Great-grandma's flannel petticoat was somewhere around mid-calf, and wasn't too full--although fasions in her youth were considerably less full-skirted than mid-19th century styles.

Posted December 16, 2005 4:58 PM by fidelio

One thing I disagree with. Mother Nature DOES care: she wants you to die if you're stupid.

Posted December 16, 2005 5:03 PM by Xopher (Christopher Hatton)

P.J.:
I suppose you could do a layer of cotton (or linen) next to the skin, then go to wool.

Actually, I have a linen chemise I can use. Forgot about that one.

Graydon:
It's not likely to matter. Petticoats are effectively a way of stopping air currents and maintaining bulk, rather than a conforming layer, and since you're not going to be sitting down much when skating, you don't have the problem of converting them into a conforming layer to worry about. (Unlike people with drafty houses and wood heat and a desire to not stand up all day.)

Define conforming layer in this context? Does that have to do with anything except fit?

You vastly overestimate my skating prowess if you think I won't be spending a lot of time sitting/falling down!

The single best thing you could do for warmth is likely to make the calf length drawers out of a modern treated cotton waffle-structure fabric, but I suspect that'd leach all the fun out of it.

That would probably be second on the list of un-fun things to do to drawers to make them warmer, and the first only just now occurred to me. Hmm.

James:
Is there some reason you're avoiding other-than-natural fibers?

They hadn't been invented yet.

Posted December 16, 2005 5:05 PM by Susan

Susan - Silk, silk, silk, silk. Heavy silk underwear is a joy in itself even before it keeps you warm. Un-glossy, undyed silk looks a lot like cotton muslin, too.

Posted December 16, 2005 5:12 PM by clew

Another mystery revealed: When persons with European ancestry get cold, their hands and feet start aching every eight to ten minutes. That's because the palms of the hands and the soles of the feet contain what's called the A-V Shunt (for Arterial-Venous Shunt). Every eight to ten minutes that shunt opens up, dumping warm arterial blood directly into the veins (rather than going through the capillary beds). This is a cold adaptation thanks to the Cro-Magnon ancestors who had to deal with glaciers and such.

That's fascinating. (Says the former archaeologist, who's going to be assistant-teaching a class on human evolution next term.)

I'm pretty sure I had a brush with mild hypothermia one time. Woke up at 5 a.m. when the temperature at destination was 45 and dropping; got off a warm bus at 8 a.m.; was on my feet and occasionally moving until about noon; was sitting on a metal bench for most of the next several hours. (College football game, and me in the band.) By fourth quarter it was snowing, I couldn't feel my feet, and most frighteningly, when I tried to mentally recite the thing I usually recite to keep my mind off being miserable, I had trouble remembering the words.

I never want to do that again. My ancestors may have been Scandinavian and Swiss German, but I grew up in Texas and will gladly go toe-to-toe with potential heat stroke -- just don't make me deal with the cold.

Posted December 16, 2005 5:21 PM by Marie Brennan

Two days ago, I'm driving down the highway in the right hand lane, about to take the next exit. A semi-tractor-trailer in the next lane over starts lane changing on top of me, my passenger freaks, I swerve into the breakdown lane, the semi's still coming, I swerve over some more, and end up on top of two feet of packed ice and snow under the middle of the car. the wheels aren't touching the ground. I've got emergency blankets, jumper cables, a small first aid kit, and some other stuff in my trunk, so I go look and discover... no friggen shovel.

Call a buddy of mine at work. He asks around, 15 people, including the building maintenence manager, and not a one of them has a shovel. He stops at Target, all sold out. He has a plastic kids shovel in his trunk. He comes over, we dig it out, and the three of us push the car back onto the road.

Went to Lowes that night, found a spade labeled "World's best shovel". It's about 4 feet long (can fit in a trunk), all steel construction, and it's FLAT. (You won't consider this important until you try to dig out the snow under the middle of your car and the only shovel you've got is CURVED and jams up two feet under the car) I bought three. One for me, and one for the two buddies who helped push me out.

Not that I'd shovel my sidewalk with this thing, its a spade with a narrow blade (maybe 8 inches wide), but when you're car is up on two feet of snow-ice it's better than being stuck.

must find a tow rope or hand winch or some such thing too. If anyone's stuck on ideas as to what to get me for christmas, nudge nudge...

The semi never stopped. He either didn't see me or didn't care. No one on the highway around us stopped either. We basically sledded into the snowbank and sat there for half an hour without a single car stopping. I dunno bout you, but where I grew up in Wisconsin, if you didn't stop for someone stuck in a ditch, it was a sin. Oh well, life in teh big city.

Posted December 16, 2005 5:38 PM by Greg London

PJ Evans; I am glad you enjoyed my rant. Self-disemvoweling is remarkably easy to do, and very satisfying.

The Twain aphorism I learned, which no historian has been able to find but which everyone agrees Twain would have said had he thought of it, is: The coldest winter I ever spent was a summer in San Francisco. I spent 5 winters in Chicago, and believe me, the above not-Twain-quote is bullshit. San Francisco ain't cold. Chicago winter IS cold. (And you guys who live in Montana, or Alaska, or the Yokun -- yah, you get cold too.) BUT -- when you're standing on the corner of Fillmore and Geary, waiting for the bus at 6:30 on a February morning, with the wind knifing east from the Pacific and the damp clinging like Shelob's web to every inch of your exposed skin, San Francisco sure feels cold.

On cold days where I live now, I unashamedly wear long silky things under my jeans. Not a Stoic, not me, no sir.

Posted December 16, 2005 5:48 PM by Lizzy L

[petticoats not a conforming layer, quoth I]
Define conforming layer in this context? Does that have to do with anything except fit?

One can lose heat through conduction, convection, or radiation, those being the only ways there are for heat to flow from the hotter body to the cooler body.

A conforming layer is effectively anything where you're losing heat through it by direct conduction. (One can lose quite a lot of heat through one's head and hands by radiation; convection is why wind is bad, and why standing very still in bulky outer layers is better than fidgeting.)

So in the case of the petticoats, they're not conforming layers; they're in contact with other layers, but not directly with you. This being the case, their ability to add to insulation by keeping layers of air trapped and making the IR photons work to cross them isn't directly affected by interacting with your skin, which is where wool really does do very well. (Lots of layers can be interacting with one's skin if the layers are pressed together; this is why layering for warmth has to involve successively looser fitting layers. It doesn't help if the jacket goes and compresses everything.)

You vastly overestimate my skating prowess if you think I won't be spending a lot of time sitting/falling down!

Unless you spend a lot of time actually sitting on the ice, with or without Emulation of the Forlorn Penguin noises, that shouldn't be a problem; the air layer gets to re-establish quickly and isn't out of existence for a significant percentage of the time.

[make drawers out of modern waffle-cotton]

That would probably be second on the list of un-fun things to do to drawers to make them warmer, and the first only just now occurred to me. Hmm.

There comes a time when modern silk or polypro longjohns just make sense. Without knowing just how cold it'll be, come the day, it's hard to offer an opinion on that point, but certainly for anything where the wind chill temp is below 0 Fahrenheit when being active outside I'd strongly consider that.

Posted December 16, 2005 5:51 PM by Graydon

This is fascinating, and helpful. Thanks, Jim, for posting it.

Could someone explain what causes paradoxical undressing? I ran across that while looking up hypothermia, and I'd never heard of it before.

Posted December 16, 2005 5:54 PM by Melissa Mead

In addition to the writing, I'm a casual letter carrier (casual as in on-call, not full time). The Worker's Comp here in BC doesn't allow outdoor employees to work when it drops to minus 40 (which is the same in F and C). Last year we came close, and this year it's been cool (-12 or so today), but so far not nasty.

For today I wore: wool socks, regular street hikers (what snow is left is thin and crusty, so I don't need ankle coverage), long undies, pants, light sweater, button-up tshirt, work jacket, touque, and thin gloves. Fireman's mitts were in my bag for the second half of the day, when I was no longer dashing in and out of overheated businesses and apartment buildings. If it drops to -20, with or without windchill, I wear a turtleneck. -30, I lose the touque and wear a balaclava, but the problem with that is it gets so hot I roll is up, and then the moisture from my breath freezes it in place, so a scarf always comes with me on those days.

Visits to apartment buildings are the most dangerous. We stand in steaming hot lobbies while we drop mail in slots and sweat like mad, then walk back out into the cold again. Those are the days I've come closest to hypothermia.

D

Posted December 16, 2005 5:55 PM by Derryl Murphy

Lizzy L: Having grown up in the Bay Area, we never went into the city without jackets or sweaters, even in September and October. I can remember my father going out a few times in the winter to thaw waterpipes, also. It can get a tad cool in the valleys.

Posted December 16, 2005 5:57 PM by P J Evans

People still die within city limits for being stupid about the terrain, the weather, and the wildlife. And yes, it can snow in the mountains in July on a day that started clear as a bell.

People are clueless all over. Here in the Central Valley (California), fog is the primary problem. The saying here is that it's called dense fog because it makes people driving in it stupid.

California also has what may be the largest highways through the most remote country in the US. Interstate 5 between Bakersfield and LA runs through Grapevine Canyon and Tejon Pass -- many miles running through truly desolate areas that get heavy snow (enough to close the highway) with little warning a couple of times a year.

And then there is I-80 between Sacramento and Reno. Six lanes full of traffic at over 7 thousand feet elevation with some of the bigest snowfalls in the lower 48 (well over 30 feet a winter is not unheard of). You would think that people would take some warning from the name of the route -- Donner Pass. (The location of that culinary landmark is just short of two miles from the interstate. See this site for the history of Donner weather)

And on both routes on holiday weekends you will find people without chains, blankets, heavy coats, water or any other survival supplies blithely driving through a snowstorm.

This is defintely not evidence of intelligent design.

Posted December 16, 2005 6:05 PM by Claude Muncey

James, do people who are NOT of European extraction actually lack the A-V Shunt?

Posted December 16, 2005 6:08 PM by Xopher (Christopher Hatton)

And I had (until they simply wore out) a set of military artic flying gloves that I inherited from my B-52 pilot father. On the inside, synthetic (I don't think they were silk) undergloves with special patches on fingertips to ensure grip. Over those, wool gloves and over those, leather. I miss those gloves.

Posted December 16, 2005 6:11 PM by Claude Muncey

Claude --

Any decent outdoor store -- at least anywhere people ski or fall off mountains -- will have glove systems like that; they're typically synthetic, generally poly, neoprene, and membrane backed nylon as the three layers of gloves, but they work pretty well for gloves.

Nor would it be hard to get pretty much exactly what you describe -- leather gloves with thinsulate-and-wool liners are easy to find, and thin polypro glove liners are also easy to find in place of the silk layer.

Posted December 16, 2005 6:19 PM by Graydon

Interstate 5 between Bakersfield and LA runs through Grapevine Canyon and Tejon Pass -- many miles running through truly desolate areas that get heavy snow (enough to close the highway) with little warning a couple of times a year.

Last winter, when I-5 was closed one time, a semi tried using California 33 as an alternate route. He got stuck in the snow. (It has less traffic and is much twistier and much narrower than I-5. I-5 is a well-traveled road, with a few places to pull off and wait.)

Posted December 16, 2005 6:20 PM by P J Evans

PJ Evans: That sounds right. And yet,every summer, the Angelenos fly north, bearing gifts (of credit card balances) and wearing shorts, and tank tops, and flip flops, and sunglasses fercryinoutloud, and they arrive at Union Square or Market Street or, God help them, The Cliff House, and they are fuckin' freezing their shapely asses off! Happens every year. Don't these guys ever talk to each other? (Fog? What's that?) While the natives, or those of us who have been here enough years of a lifetime to pass, peel off and put back on the necessary layers over and over.

Except -- not this past August, at least, not so much. It was odd. Chance? Global warming? Who knows?

I wonder about this global warming thing a lot. I wonder what happens to those of us who live on the coast when the ice caps melt -- as they are. I wonder what happens when instead of one Katrina, there are two, or four, every year. I wonder what happens when a major river, a river depended upon for water in some major city, dries up. Just dries up. Or when -- oh, sorry. I'm off topic. Right. We're talking about cold.

I think I'll go read something nice and soothing by J. G. Ballard.

Posted December 16, 2005 6:20 PM by Lizzy L

San Francisco ain't cold. Chicago winter IS cold.

I agree, BUT:

Our house on the San Francisco Bay, when we moved in three years ago, not only had no insulation (not terribly surprising both for the era and for the area) but had no heat (there was a fireplace, but the chimney was damaged in Loma Prieta and it wasn't safe to use it). When it was 40 degrees outside, it was 40 degrees inside. (And there were other issues, like when it was raining outside there was a waterfall in the library, but this is tangential.)

We're about to start our first winter with central heat both installed and operating, our fourth winter in the house, and just walking into the house and feeling warmth instead of a dark, damp chill inside makes a huge difference. We spend a lot less time shivering, for one thing, and on weekend evenings, we can stay home, instead of going out to any place that is likely to be heated to warm up.

In contrast, I've never ever been in a building in Chicago that didn't have central heat of some sort. And I've been in a lot of buildings in Chicago. I think being able to get away from the cold makes all the difference in the world in surviving the winter.

Posted December 16, 2005 6:24 PM by Ayse Sercan

Ayse: When I was in high school, we moved into a house with steam heating. This is a great system in an area where it's cold all winter. It didn't work really well in the Bay Area. I will admit, it was not helped by the fact that the builder (described by one of the neighbors as [pantomime of drinking from a bottle]) installed the system with the main lines in the attic (steam flows down and water up, yes?), and there was a nail through one of the tubes (system rebuilt later by my father, worked better afterward). We spent a lot of time cold in the winter and hot in the summer (no AC in that house either).

Posted December 16, 2005 6:31 PM by P J Evans

And if you're at all skeptical of your furnace and its ability to continue functioning as temperatures drop? Get a service tech to look at it...

Service techs just left our house about 20 minutes ago after replacing our failed furnace. Only warning we had of the incipient failure? An intermittent odor.

Posted December 16, 2005 6:32 PM by bill blum

Steam heat is overwhelming even in cold places, in my opinion. Also, it helps if it was installed by somebody with a decent understanding of plumbing and heating principles. I have lust in my heart for a hydronic radiant system (hot water rather than steam in the pipes), but that will have to wait.

We put in a cheap forced-air system last winter (but had to leave it disconnected until this fall for reasons I won't get into). Works OK. It's a terribly inefficient kind of heat under the best of circumstances, and only more so in a house with open holes to the outdoors. But it takes the edge off the cold, and now we can walk around the house without seven layers of clothing on.

My parents have been limping their ancient furnace along for decades, and recently discovered that they could replace it with a new one that a) takes up a quarter the space, b) includes an air conditioner, c) costs considerably less than the original in dollars that haven't been adjusted for inflation, and the kicker, d) would save them so much money on gas that their total cash outlay for the first year would be less than with the old furnace, not including rebates from the gas company. I think they went for it. If you also have a forty-year-old furnace, consider an energy-efficient replacement.

Another heating tip: put a note on your calendar to call the furnace guy for a checkup in late July. (Or midsummer, wherever you are, after the cooling season has been going a while but before everybody is thinking of winter again.) They're usually a) instantly available and b) cheaper at that time of the year, and you don't risk having to replace the furnace at the last minute when everybody else's furnace is also failing. You don't need to do it every year, but regularly is good.

Posted December 16, 2005 6:55 PM by Ayse Sercan

I just wanted to add that it doesn't have to be all that cold outside for you to gethypothermia. That's what people die of on the streets here and it doesn't get below the forties most of the time, hardly ever below freezing. It's having no rain gear and getting soaked and then it's just kind of cold, and that's enough to do a person in.

Posted December 16, 2005 7:08 PM by Lucy Kemnitzer

Thanks Graydon -- I just checked out REI and see some likely candidates. However, I don't think they'll smell like the old ones. Can't have it all, I guess.

Posted December 16, 2005 7:21 PM by Claude Muncey

A few winters ago, I was visiting Jo in Swansea, at New Year's. Now, Wales doesn't get cold by New York (or Montreal or Chicago or Anchorage) standards. And I wanted to walk along the shore and see some local sight, since it was effectively my last chance before Jo et famille emigrated.

So, Sasha (age 11, I think, at the time) and Tom and I were walking next to the sea, on a chilly winter's day (air temperature probably around freezing), while Jo and Emmet sat sensibly in a bookstore/cafe. It was cold, as the three of us had remarked on, with of course an onshore wind.

And then Sasha commented that he didn't feel cold anymore. Just an 11-year-old's offhand remark. I declared that we were turning back immediately, and took shelter in the first available spot. After Sasha had warmed up again in the canned food aisle of said local grocery, we found Jo and Emmet and then a bus home.

I've wondered, occasionally, whether Tom would have realized, at some point, what "I don't feel cold anymore" meant--he's not stupid, but he's English and not as used to serious winters. They'd have been unlikely to be out there without me, though, so it probably wouldn't have been an issue.

Sasha understands about winter, and warm clothes, and such now, of course--though I remember a couple of years ago, in Montreal, on our way to the Metro one morning, him asking why nobody had told him how cold it was, and I explained that I had told him, but he hadn't been paying attention.

Posted December 16, 2005 7:27 PM by Vicki

Claude --

Something close to smelling right is why I still have my moosehide mitts, even if they're really rather too small, now.

Posted December 16, 2005 8:02 PM by Graydon

Anyone hear of "muck boots"?

They're a brand of winter boots that are insulated and waterproof and I saw them in a store once during the fall, and foolishly thought I would be able to buy a pair sometime later.

Are they any good? They looked good, but
boots always look good on a nice dry shelf
in a store. It's in 4 inches of ice-cold water, snow, and slush that is the deal breaker.

And if they are good,
where the heck can I get a pair?

Posted December 16, 2005 8:16 PM by Greg London

I will absolutely second the comments about rain and bad rain gear being recipes for disaster.

I went hiking in the Rockies one June with my father when I was in my late teens. We made sure I had both rain coat and rain pants, and we even re-sealed the seams on them as well as re-waterproofing my boots. (I think my father's gear was all new). But we neglected to check to make sure that the new waterproofing worked.

It was several hours into the first day's hike, it was warm enough that I was wearing shorts and t-shirt, and it started to pour down rain. So I put on the rain gear. Turned out I missed a spot, or else the Gore-Tex had gotten worn out across the shoulders; I can't quite remember. Also I hadn't waxed around the boot laces well enough. I was absolutely miserable.

Anyway, it's fortunate for me that my father was a member of a rescue club when he was in college, because he knew right away what was happening to me. He pitched the tent in the first vaguely big enough (not really), vaguely flat enough (not really) spot he could find, (I remember just standing there weeping in misery, not understanding what was happening), and shoved me into it. He made sure I stripped off completely and got me into my sleeping bag; I wasn't too far gone, so I warmed up pretty quickly. The sun came out an hour later, so I went and basked on a boulder.

It's left me very wary of rain on warm days. It's also left me prone to being scoffed at for warning people against hypothermia in such circumstances. But I perservere in telling them, regardless.

Posted December 16, 2005 8:27 PM by Naomi Parkhurst

Aconite ( if you're going to be driving anywhere where it gets the kind of cold described above, please, please remember to pack your car with emergency supplies) and ben (I'll bet that four Mylar emergency blankets and a box of flares together cost $20 before tax, if not less) remind me that the last time the conversation here turned to 'survival' (after the New Orleans flood), I was motivated to go out and buy a case of Mylar survival blankets and a case of whistles.

Stocking stuffers for everyone on our list this year.
I started handing them out to relatives I saw at Thanksgiving.

So thanks, Jim, for reminding us to make sure that the people we care about start thinking about these things.

Posted December 16, 2005 9:12 PM by Bob Oldendorf

Thank you so much for the information, both in the post and the comment thread. I'm going to print it out and use it to revamp how I dress for going to work. I commute by bus and as my office moved from Mid-town to the financial district, I now have a much longer bus ride and longer periods outside, which includes time waiting for buses in open areas (by bridges and NY harbor).

Posted December 16, 2005 9:29 PM by RosemarieK

Xopher -- so far as I'm aware, non-Europeans don't have the A-V Shunt.

Greg, are you referring to "duck boots"? If so, they're great.

Suggestion for everyone: Shop for socks at a sporting goods store that caters to hunters and hikers, even if you aren't a hunter or hiker yourself. I have a pair of Hunting-Fishing thermolite socks from Lorpen that is really outstanding. Padded, insulated, really nice.

Speaking of kids -- they're on the wrong side of the surface area/volume ratio, and will get cold faster than adults.

Posted December 16, 2005 9:30 PM by James D. Macdonald

Greg --

Never heard of "muck boots"; insulated boots with waterproof feet (but not the leg covering uppers, which are merely resistant) are pretty easy to find.

The two brands I have had good results with are Sorel and Baffin. Both manufacturers make boots rated for -100 C.

Posted December 16, 2005 9:34 PM by Graydon

Hmm. Still no seriously cold weather in NYC. It was 50 out today. Practicaly t-shirt weather.

Posted December 16, 2005 10:08 PM by Josh Jasper

Lordy. I'm off to the cricket. It may have gotten all the way down to 20 degrees today, just before sunrise. Celcius, that is.

Posted December 16, 2005 10:21 PM by Dave Luckett

Josh--

Okay, maybe we're on different metabolisms, but -9 C before counting wind chill is cold enough for me, thanks. Not as cold as I'll be dealing with--I'll be in the frozen north in a fortnight--but it's cold.

Posted December 16, 2005 10:42 PM by Vicki

Another boot question:

If I read the Websites right, neither of the boots Graydon recommended come in my size.

Can anyone recommend good -- warm, waterproof, and suited for walking a mile or two at a time -- boots that come in a women's size 8 E? Or equivalent--I think that's a European 39, a US boys' 6.5.

I have a pair of ToeWarmers, which fit quite well in the store and not so well once I actually walked more than a short distance in them outside in the cold.

Posted December 16, 2005 10:45 PM by Vicki

I seem to remember seeing battery-powered heated socks at a hunters' store, years back; I didn't want them, but I was younger then...now, I think I'd like a heated vest, and greatly like our heated mattress pad (10% of the power of a room heater...).

Posted December 16, 2005 11:00 PM by Michael Turyn

Nice lead, minor additions for consideration:
If you come across a cold, maybe-not-dead person: Rescue flat, transport flat, you don't want the blood to drain from their head.

The urinating when cold (shell-core affect) can lead to impressive dehydration when you warm up, and possibly consequent vascular shock due to lack of blood volume. Get warm, fall over.

When your brain starts getting cold, the first thing to go is common sense. We are only a few degrees from being morons.

Don't assume there is only one diagnosis for a set of symptoms. Consider the hypothermic hypoglycemic diabetic. Who's been drinking.

Kids definitely get cold faster, when I teach skiing to kids, I try to deliberately underdress so I realize how cold the kids are. Conversely, when I'm ski-patrolling I overdress since I never know when I'm going to be lying still in the snow stabilizing someone's head for a half-hour or more.

Greg: "muck boots" might be findable at a farmer's supply or feed store. If you're looking for mukluks, try a snowmobile place.

My preferred heating system is gas-fired steam. The thermocouple in the pilot light generates enough power to run the gas valve. Still warm during the blackout.

Posted December 16, 2005 11:17 PM by John Houghton

See also: http://www.ilo.org/encyclopaedia/?print&nd=857100121 for information on cold occupations, cold injuries, and much else.

Posted December 16, 2005 11:48 PM by James D. Macdonald

Here's what really kills fast in real, deep cold.

Too much clothing.

Why?

You start warm. You start moving. All that insulation is keeping the heat in. Your body gets hot. You start sweating. The sweat soaks your clothing -- and collapses the insulation.

Suddenly, you're standing there, with your body in full "dump heat" mode -- and you've soaked through, so the water in your clothing is conducting the heat right through. Water is *great* at conducting heat. Suddenly, you're really cold, you get stupid, and you die.

The biggest rule of cold -- if you're sweating, your screwing up. When you walk out from indoors, you should feel cold. If you start moving and still feel cold, you add a layer. More likely, though, you'll quickly get warm. Strip off that top layer. Keep moving. If you start to feel warm again, off with the next layer.

When you pause, you immediatly add a layer until you get moving again. When you stop for the night (if camping), you add at least two, unless and until you get into bed.

For Ghugle's sake -- don't forget your hats. Heck, if you're cold sleeping, wear one while sleeping.

Hydration is important -- even if you aren't sweating (and you mustn't), when your lungs warm 0F air to 90F, that air is very dry, and it will humidify in your lungs. You will exhale amazing amounts of moisture that you'll need to replace. Food is also important -- no fuel, your body cannot make heat. Camping Trick Number 3 -- eat before you sleep, and you sleep warm. (number 4 -- once you're in your bag, with your hat on, do ten situps. You'll be warm all night.)

When you get inside, get as much clothing off as possible. It'll need to dry, and you don't want to overheat (then you sweat when you get outside...) You can dry dampclothes in your sleeping bag while you sleep, but that energy comes at a price -- you provide it. If you don't have enough food, that's a big problem.

Finally -- the coldest activity is the world is astronomy. Clear nights are colder, because the Earth's heat radiates to the dark sky. Still nights (when the seeing is best) doubles this fast. Furthermore, if you're using optics, you aren't moving. The standard is dress 30 degrees *colder* that the acutal air temp. I don't think that's enough.

The one time I actually hit real hypothermia wasn't on Superior in January, or Chicago in February -- it was July in St. Louis, this year. How? Company moved, racking servers in new datacenter. Spent 14 hours in a dry, 60F room, not eating enough.

When I left, and tried to reach my car, I had to sit outside for 30 minutes before I stopped shaking enough to dry. Thankfully, warming up in St. Louis in July is *not* an issue.

That's how easy hypothermia is -- it's a simple equation. Your body burns fuel to generate heat. The enviroment pulls energy away. If the latter exceeds the former, you start to lose.

(And, on the converse -- there's a rule of rescue. There are no cold dead people in rescue situations. They have to warm up first, because you'd be surprised at how long someone can be cold, and come back. There is a limit, however -- if they're frozen solid, they're dead.

So, if you ever pull a kid out from under the ice, and that kid still bends, that kid isn't dead yet. Important.)

Posted December 16, 2005 11:50 PM by Erik V. Olson

Consider the hypothermic hypoglycemic diabetic. Who's been drinking.

I think I picked him up once. Except my guy was also psychotic (the voices in his head told him that water is poisonous).

Posted December 16, 2005 11:54 PM by James D. Macdonald

Just an additional cold weather note. When it comes to water issues, do not go in after anyone in cold weather without proper rescue equipment. Two dead people instead of one will not significantly improve the situation. I grew up visiting my aunt who lives on a lake that freezes in winter, and she taught me about basic water rescue. She saw three people die one winter because one went through and the other two didn't wait for help and equipment before going after the first. All three died. Under those circumstances, you're not being a hero, you're being a fool. Get help, so that the rescue people at least know where someone went in. And if you aren't trained, don't assume that you have any idea what you're doing.

Posted December 17, 2005 12:51 AM by H Melville

Fidelio:
When wet, cotton, even heavy cotton flannel, does not perform like wool. Which brings us to: Will the flannel petticoat be getting wet?

I can't see why it would. If I fall through the ice into the water I expect I'll have more immediate problems than the precise fiber content of my clothing. (Joke, mostly; I think this is a constructed rink, not a pond.)

If you aren't absolutely sold on total authenticity, and can locate some, there are polyester textiles that resemble fine wool, and, thanks to the contruction of the polyester fiber, have the ability to lock in air almost as well. Another possibility would be a heavy-weight silk noil, in a tight weave.

The problem I foresee with either making underwear out of silk (as various folks have suggested) or wearing modern silk stuff or anything else that locks in air under my underpinnings is that I have the modern problem of going from heated buildings into the great outdoors, and I can't easily remove underlayers without stripping to the skin. This wouldn't have been such a problem before central heating. I may have given the impression that all the layers I described were for outdoor wear. They aren't. Everything up to the pelerine is normal indoor clothing such as I'd wear for vigorous activity like dancing. (In summer I might remove the pelerine.) Adding or subtracting a waist petticoat or two is fairly simple. Adding cloak, gloves, muff, etc. likewise. Adding layers under the chemise and drawers means I am stuck with them. I suspect I'd have overheating problems indoors and end up going outside sweaty, which is something I want to avoid.

There are also logistical difficulties with modern long-johns under the drawers, though I suppose I could alter a pair for functionality.

From what my mother says, Great-grandma's flannel petticoat was somewhere around mid-calf, and wasn't too full--although fasions in her youth were considerably less full-skirted than mid-19th century styles.

Mine will be mid-calf as well, with tucks and maybe moderate cording. I'm in 1830's here; the fashions are full-skirted but not yet at their maximum.

Posted December 17, 2005 12:58 AM by Susan

Graydon:
So in the case of the petticoats, they're not conforming layers; they're in contact with other layers, but not directly with you. This being the case, their ability to add to insulation by keeping layers of air trapped and making the IR photons work to cross them isn't directly affected by interacting with your skin, which is where wool really does do very well. (Lots of layers can be interacting with one's skin if the layers are pressed together; this is why layering for warmth has to involve successively looser fitting layers. It doesn't help if the jacket goes and compresses everything.)

I think what this boils down to is that my layers of petticoats will be useful in and of themselves just by trapping air between them, such that the fiber content of one petticoat is less critical, yes?

Unless you spend a lot of time actually sitting on the ice, with or without Emulation of the Forlorn Penguin noises, that shouldn't be a problem; the air layer gets to re-establish quickly and isn't out of existence for a significant percentage of the time.

Barring injury, I do not expect to perform the Emulation of the Forlorn Penguin posture and noises for more than a moment, though I will probably be less graceful and rather noisier in righting myself than the typical penguin.

There comes a time when modern silk or polypro longjohns just make sense. Without knowing just how cold it'll be, come the day, it's hard to offer an opinion on that point, but certainly for anything where the wind chill temp is below 0 Fahrenheit when being active outside I'd strongly consider that.

I would hope for a warmer day for skating. I am not that fond of cold weather; I grew up in Texas.

Posted December 17, 2005 1:06 AM by Susan

Susan -- ah, a kindred spirit. :-)

All this discussion is reminding me that, evolutionarily speaking, we are tropical animals. I am re-confirmed in my belief that I should never live anywhere that gets colder than sixty degrees Fahrenheit.

It's also reminding me of a scene that's always stuck in my mind, from Tamora Pierce's Lioness Rampant. Alanna's about to hike up a mountain pass in the midst of a blizzard (bad idea, and she knows it, but y'know, epic quest and all) -- so Pierce gives us a couple pages of Alanna preparing. Silk undergarments, wool overgarments, fleece-lined leather top and bottom with goosedown vest, knitted facemask, goggles, headcloth, fleece-lined mittens, fur-lined cloak, snowshoes. (And then magic to help make it all stay warm.) Then vivid description of re-learning how to walk in snowshoes, and an effective moment when Alanna realizes she's been walking for ages and has only made it a short distance out. The effect? As a reader, it absolutely made me believe this blizzard was the incredible danger the characters said it was. (The well-documented benefits of showing, instead of just telling.) It also stayed in my mind as a guide to how I should dress in severe cold, and it pleased me to see, when I started reading this comments thread, that yes, leather over wool over silk is in fact a good way to go. Yay for authors doing their research.

Posted December 17, 2005 1:30 AM by Marie Brennan

I spent much of my adolescence living in a barn on a mountain in the Massachusetts Berkshires. Forty foot ceilings in the hall and living room, forced air heating which really only warmed things in the small rooms--bedrooms, bathrooms. Several fireplaces which were used most of the time. And (while I lived there) no insulation in the hall and living room, with the result that the wind would come roaring through the house at damned near full speed: we had windchill inside the house. You put on a coat to go from my side of the house (the loft above the bathroom and TV room on the south side of the house) to the kitchen on the north side. You put on a coat to go into the living room. The first year we celebrated Christmas and brought a nice little tree down the hill (it was 35 feet tall, but who could tell when it was on the mountain with all the really big trees?) we sat in the living room in front of a fire in coats (over our pajamas) and boots and hats, to see what Santa had brought.

I don't handle cold well. What all this taught me was that when it comes to temperature I have no vanity. When we lived in NY I would wear my ski-bib to work. People laughed, but my legs were warm. Now that we live in the Bay area, where (as the nice realtor who sold us our house pointed out) everyone is in denial about the weather and no one insulates properly, I am always just a little too cold. Again, no vanity: when my fellow San Franciscans are gadding about in T-shirts and shorts, I'm wrapped in shawls and wearing gloves.

Posted December 17, 2005 2:45 AM by Madeleine Robins

Note one: London is really warm. Ok, people keep telling me that this is unusual balmy weather, but still, if this is the worst winters can do here, I really laugh at them. We got real winters at home, thankyouverymuch.

Note two: even so, winter is winter, and I can't understand why people don't dress accordingly. Back in November when we had a couple of truly freezing nights I met a couple of minicab drivers who went through this pityful running-out-the-car-flapping-arms every time they had to go outside. They had a polare fleece jacket and a t-shirt on. I gently suggested to one that perhaps he ought to dress more. He said, no, no, it's just that he hadn't eaten.

Mah. Lots of people go around in flip-flops, and denim jackets here. Miniskirts, no stockings, sandals, and cotton jackets. T-freaking-shirts. Maybe they have more moral character than me. They don't seem cold, in general, althought there was a lot of complaining about the bitterness of the climate when it went a modest two degrees Celsius below freezing.

Note three: it's amazing how much of a difference a good hat makes. I bought a fur hat from the Russians in Padova last year, mostly because I liked the (probably fake) hammer-and-sickle enamelled pin on it. It looked gorgeous, and I have lost count of the people - sometimes passing strangers on the street - who told me "Great hat". So I bought it for the look, and of course it doesn't hurt that the theme this winter seems to be Tzarist Russian Look, but as time went by I realized that Russians do know about cold.

Posted December 17, 2005 3:10 AM by Anna Feruglio Dal Dan

Could someone explain what causes paradoxical undressing? I ran across that while looking up hypothermia, and I'd never heard of it before.

I remember talking about this a couple years ago in alt.folkore.urban. The consensus was that - and I think it was already mentioned above, people get stupid when cold, and take off their clothes rather than keep them on.

The incidence of this happening in the general frozen public is about one in four. One year Sweden counted up all the peoplesicles found in flagrante delicato and determined that two thirds of them had drugs or alcohol in their systems.

They didn't come right out and make the correlation between drinking and taking your clothes off in public, but as also mentioned above, being cold and drunk makes you even more stupid than either one alone.

There was some other Swedish study - which rates mention in that it is only one of twenty-five Medline articles that make reference to 'drunkards', which tried to create a link between atherosclerosis, alcohol, hyperthermia and the winter lambada.

Artherosclerosis might cause paradoxical peripheral vasodilation, which, much like alcohol, will cause one to feel warmer than they really are. The Germans reference this and introduce another whacky behavior of the cold and nearly-dead - "terminal burrowing behavior".

Those Germans.

Posted December 17, 2005 3:41 AM by Tae

Another thing about making it more likely that children will be rescued (on top of "give them a whistle") is to be careful how you teach children to respond to strangers. A child lost in the bush Australia this year starting trying to *evade* the rescuers because they were strangers to him and therefore, as per his parental teaching, dangerous.

Posted December 17, 2005 4:28 AM by Mary

Susan --

I think what this boils down to is that my layers of petticoats will be useful in and of themselves just by trapping air between them, such that the fiber content of one petticoat is less critical, yes?

Pretty much, yes. The difference there is between permeable and impermeable, but I misdoubt me you're going to make a mirror-mylar petticoat under any circumstances, so that's not likely to be a meaningful concern.

Barring injury, I do not expect to perform the Emulation of the Forlorn Penguin posture and noises for more than a moment, though I will probably be less graceful and rather noisier in righting myself than the typical penguin.

Have you ever seen penguins getting up onto their feet again? Not bending in the middle and having tiny, horizontal, splint-like femurs doesn't make for elegance in arising.

Posted December 17, 2005 8:27 AM by Graydon

Have you ever seen penguins getting up onto their feet again? Not bending in the middle and having tiny, horizontal, splint-like femurs doesn't make for elegance in arising.

With the corset on, I have the not-bending-in-the-middle part, and having 12+ yards of fabric wrapped around my lower body will take care of the rest. Perhaps we could film this and then watch March of the Penguins for comparison.

Clearly the most important accessory for this excursion will be a large penguin, err, gentleman with exceptional balance and ice-skating skill.

Posted December 17, 2005 8:34 AM by Susan

Susan --

Oh, right, forgot about the corset.

I remain certain that frenzied territorial croaking and barking is entirely avoidable, which is not the observed case for the majority of the ilks of penguin.

Clearly the most important accessory for this excursion will be a large penguin, err, gentleman with exceptional balance and ice-skating skill.

An obvious commercial opportunity presents itself -- highly elegant, mannered skating partners for hire at the entirely reasonable rate of a kilo of fresh herring an hour.

There's still the question of how you make skates for tridactyl digitgrade feet, but that can be dismissed as mere engineering in the funding proposals.

Posted December 17, 2005 8:54 AM by Graydon

Susan: With the corset on, I have the not-bending-in-the-middle part, and having 12+ yards of fabric wrapped around my lower body will take care of the rest.

The real reason women haven't traditionally* excelled in sports.

*for a given value of "traditionally"

Posted December 17, 2005 8:55 AM by Aconite

It's been cold all week (highs below -10 C) so yesterday when it snowed 41cm and was a balmy -4 it seemed quite warm -- no need for a fleece layer under the coat.

Nevertheless, I was surprised to see people out wearing mini-skirts and little jackets with bare bellies.

They were downtown, not in the wilderness, and the people I saw on the street around here (mostly having impromptu "let's dig the car out" parties) were sensibly dressed.

But even downtown the snow wasn't cleared everywhere, and it was -4, and I'd have thought winter clothes would have been better... even considered as a mating display.

Still, people are very odd.

Posted December 17, 2005 9:28 AM by Jo Walton

Speaking of Not Talking to Strangers and the rescue problem -- same thing happened recently in the USA:

http://www.cnn.com/2005/US/06/22/missing.scout/

Posted December 17, 2005 9:35 AM by James D. Macdonald

I live in Vermont, where the winters get a bit chilly. At 5 degrees F below zero, your breath will freeze to your scarf or beard. At 20 degrees below zero, your tears will (occasionally) freeze your eyelashes together. This is not weather for the unprepared.

The basic rules:

1) Long underwear, top and bottom, made from either wool or a good modern synthetic. Cotton does not work. A layer of thick polypro against the skin makes an amazing difference in warmth.

2) Whatever you do, try very hard not to sweat. At rest, the human body consumes about 100 watts of power--a lightbulb. In motion, the human body consumes something like 1,500 watts of power--a decent space heater. If you're working hard, you will warm up radidly and sweat. When you stop working, you'll freeze.

3) Layers, layers, layers. Because your body's heating ability varies so widely--and because you don't want to sweat--you'll need to control your temperature. You want lots of thin layers, none of them cotton. Personally, I'm fond of middle layers which unzip at the chest and armpits if I'm going to be moving. Also: Tick wool socks, good boots, and outer layers which break the wind. In particular, if you're using artificial fleece, remember that it's transparent to even a light wind.

4) Protect your head, neck, face and hands. Exposed skin can freeze very quickly. You might try Turtle Fur around the neck, a really warm hat with ear flaps, and--in colder weather--a face mask. Also, when possible, favor good mittens over gloves; your fingers stay warmer together. If you need some finger mobility, try a bicycling shop--they often sell "two finger" gloves.

5) Keep moving, and keep adjusting your layers.

With the right preparations, and a little practice, 20F below is survivable. But it's not particularly forgiving weather, and any windchill can make it dangerous indeed.

Posted December 17, 2005 9:41 AM by Eric

Further demonstrating that fear also makes you stupid.

Posted December 17, 2005 9:41 AM by Graydon

I remain certain that frenzied territorial croaking and barking is entirely avoidable, which is not the observed case for the majority of the ilks of penguin.

That really depends on the heights (or depths) to which we wish to lift the performance art, doesn't it? If our skating achieves B-movie status (I don't think any of us involved in this claim any actual skating ability), we might go for the truly awful and add sound effects and perhaps some flying pie tins. I can practice the sound effects right now while I recite the Rant of the Missing Chimney Sweep, which is going to delay the opening of my afternoon performance art ("Christmas in Connecticut") by preventing the artistic pre-arrangement of the logs for the Roaring Fire. This is the last straw after the noncooperation of the weather, which has removed most of my picturesque backyard snowfield (putting an end to any prospects of romping in the white stuff and making snow angels