Maybe he has read Spider Robinson, and hated it.

My favorite part is "the Science of Electronics".

Posted November 13, 2006 10:32 PM by Avram

TNH: I suspected that this was something you'd want to sink your teeth into. ;-)

Posted November 13, 2006 10:34 PM by protected static

And then brush them afterward.

Posted November 13, 2006 10:36 PM by Teresa Nielsen Hayden

I think you've nailed it, TNH. This is marginal man, angered at his marginalisation, and seeking a fantasy of power to justify his existence. I wonder if liberals, not to mention women, are actually real to him or just blanks onto which he projects his angers and inadequacies?

This is the 'Hitler' of The Iron Dream, impotent in reality creating the fantasy of his perfection and power. Only, of course, he went beyond this into crime.

I wonder what his fellow rightists have to say about this. Why do I expect that they will be eloquently silent?

Posted November 13, 2006 10:42 PM by Fragano Ledgister

Teresa, I offer my prescription-strength antibacterial mouthwash. It's potent enough to make your gums ache, but in cases like this, the tears in your eyes are worth it to feel really, really clean again.

Bets on how long it takes this guy to show up, and how much candy there is in him?

Posted November 13, 2006 10:45 PM by Aconite

How about creating a new sci-fi anthology with none of the puerile baggage of Rod Serling...

A world where anything is possible but not everything is possible. Anything can happen, but not all things can happen at once.

How, um, Serlingesque :-)

Posted November 13, 2006 11:06 PM by Bruce Adelsohn

Teresa, I think the show he was talking about was the one in his intro: Lexx. He obviously identifies himself with Stanley the useless cleaner whose only break in life was to fortuitously absorb the key to the most powerful spaceship in the universe...but still can't get girls to be nice to him.

And I think you misunderstand his point. He's saying that Gibson, Doctorow, etc., etc., don't write proper science fiction because they write about "compassion, tolerance, and equality" rather than the correct theme of science fiction, which is "common sense and merit." Gor books are SF, see, but not Le Guin. The reason why you miss his point is that you are not a deranged loser.

Posted November 13, 2006 11:14 PM by Chris Lawson

The idea that SF can possibly be seen as "anti-mankind cynicism and fatalism" chills me to the bone. Then again, in my mind, fandom is and always will be the image in Fans!

Yes, I'm a hopeless and unredeemable optimist.

Posted November 13, 2006 11:17 PM by Will "scifantasy" Frank

Hey, let's take up a collection and buy him the Compleat Works of E.E. "Doc" Smith to read in prison!

* * *

"and how much candy there is in him?"

Whoa. Saturday Morning Lazing on the Couch Flashback.

Posted November 13, 2006 11:24 PM by Stefan Jones

Cynicism, fatalism, anti-Americanism, Gene Roddenberry?

This made me choke. I guess he thinks that if you say it with enough force, logic doesn't matter. Gee, I've never seen that tactic used in political debate before ...

Posted November 13, 2006 11:27 PM by Anthony Ha

I humbly accept Teresa's congratulations on behalf of all Canadians.

Posted November 13, 2006 11:29 PM by Karl Parakenings

Does anyone else get the impression that he doesn't like reading books?

Yes, he uses the word "anthology", and quite a few other long ones, but it's a sort of book that's thin on the ground these days. It's an odd word to use, and could refer to The Twilight Zone as compared to Star Trek, rather than anything written.

But I'm probably reading too much into this guy's babbling.

Posted November 13, 2006 11:30 PM by Dave Bell

Oh, Teresa! Please don't write things like "it's an anagram of SCARCE GONADS, CHARLATAN." You made me pound on my laptop. I could have broken it, and then I wouldn't have been able to read the rest of the post until tomorrow, at work.

Okay, I guess you can write them, but maybe warn us, so we can take appropriate safety measures.

Posted November 13, 2006 11:33 PM by India

"And what kind of name is �Charles Conrad Castagna�, hmmmm?"

Once again, we see that conservatism is the philosphy of self-hatred.

Posted November 13, 2006 11:36 PM by Peter Hentges

Good heavens. The sole letter I've ever written to scifi.com was a response to that nattering no-nads. (Also there are replies by Brian Patterson and Matt Frey.) It's not my most eloquent (Rush Limbaugh hisownself ranted for ten on-air minutes about an op-ed I wrote; truly, the pen is mightier than the OxyContin), but ol' Chad got under my collar. Though not with anonymous white powder, granted. May he find himself in a prison block where "anything can happen" ... but not all at once.

Posted November 13, 2006 11:53 PM by Mark

oh man... Ms. Nielsen Hayden, many thanks for this post, but I think it might benefit from a beverage warning. SCARCE GONADS, CHARLATAN= V8 Splash all over the monitor. Sweetened carrot juice, yo. That stuff is dangerous (and streaky. Mostly just streaky).

Thanks for bringing the snark, though. If we all disown him, does that count as kicking him out of fandom? He doesn't seem to have too far to fall, what with how he seems to loathe all things fandom to begin with.

Posted November 13, 2006 11:58 PM by Annalee Flower Horne

Oh, and right now the phrase "the Republic of Chad" just makes me giggle.

Posted November 14, 2006 12:06 AM by Mark

Sigh. Keith Olberman just described this sad loser as a "sci-fi buff."

OTOH, it also turns out that Olberman was one of the targets, so I'll forgive him this time.

Posted November 14, 2006 12:31 AM by Tom S.

I'm glad he said Sci-Fi and not SF.

I think of Fellers Like That as soreheads; perpetually, habitually, and neurotically angry and resentful.

Posted November 14, 2006 12:44 AM by Stefan Jones

Castegna:
"A world where anything is possible but not everything is possible. Anything can happen, but not all things can happen at once. That is what time is for, to keep all things from happening at the same moment. That shall be the only rule of our new fantasy world. That an event happens only once. What has been done, cannot be undone. There is no turning back the sands of time. You can review the past but you cannot change the past."

www.timecube.com:
"Humans are educated stupid Word Animals,
creating a Word God and Word World, thus
inflicting singularity as mange upon Nature.
Singularity educators are unfit to even live.
Wisdom is a Cubic measure of Knowledge.
Via Cubic Wisdom, I am the wisest human.
Mind must see Cube eyes can't comprehend.
Time Cube impose 4 corners on Earth sphere.
Earth sphere is Cubic with rounded corners."

Seperated at birth?

Posted November 14, 2006 1:13 AM by Steve Taylor

I am a lifelong Conservative Republican .
I have an Associates Degree in the Science of Electronics .

Hi, Avram, that "Science of Electronics" caught my attention, too. Whatever ever happened to e.g. "Electronic Technology." Was it paper out of a mail order diploma mill or something, I wonder... Note there's attribution of where it's from or how much he might have paid for it....

Ann Coulter is a Goddess and I worship Laura Ingraham and Michele Malkin . English is the langauge of the United States of America- - our Declaration of Independence and our Constitution are written in the langauge that expresses our civilized freedoms .

Does he think that the Bible's written in English, too, I wonder?

Spanish is the language of Banana Republics, beyond that it belongs in a European country.

ROLFMAO! Apparently it fails to occur to him that the Spanish came over before any British colonies got established in North America.

Perhaps he should be sentenced to watching Zorro reruns and allowed only books written by Joanna Russ, Chip Delany, Melissa Scott, Ted Sturgeon, Stranger in Strange Land, and maybe some Barry Malzberg novels...

Posted November 14, 2006 1:17 AM by Paula Lieberman

Very strange. In the timeline I'm from (Alexander the Great, Black Death in Europe in 1351, Apollo 11 exploded on takeoff) these hate-spewing eliminationist websites you speak of don't exist at all! And so in my timeline, Charles Conrad Castagna spends his copious free time pestering physics professors with his 486-page (and growing) manifesto about how General Relativity really works.

From what little I've heard, I must say I like my timeline much better than your timeline... even with the untimely loss of Neil Armstrong, Colonel Buzz Aldrin, and Colonel Jacqueline "Jackie" Cochran.

Posted November 14, 2006 1:28 AM by Evan Goer

Given his mention of Rockne O'Bannon, I would guess that Aeryn Sun is also on his shit list for being not only a strong woman, but humanity through the dark mirror.

Posted November 14, 2006 1:45 AM by shadowsong

"Alexander the Great, Black Death in Europe in 1347, Neil Armstrong in 1966. And which timeline are you from?"

A timeline where the space programme paid off slightly later, it seems..

More seriously, I guess it was only a matter of time before one of the legion of the perpertually angry rightwing sf fans went and put one of their fantasies into action; I'm surprised it took so long. I'm also glad it's not a name I recognise.

Posted November 14, 2006 1:51 AM by Martin Wisse

Sigh...y'know, Pohl & Kornbluth, unhappy ad-men both, described the practice of trolling for psychologically disabled people through the mass media, not exactly this--theirs was much scarier--but close, in The Space Merchants published in 1952 or so. Castanaga, the poor scary schmuck, is just delusional--what they used to call paranoid--, that's all. But he watched sci-fi (he doesn't seem to have read much), and we live in an sfnal world, so his delusions are science fictional in character.

As for the people who go trolling for psychopaths...I think that will be a crime eventually; it already is, sometimes. But crime or no it's an awesomely unethical thing, and deserves all the censure we can heap on it. And it occurs to me to wonder...how many of the al-Qaeda terrorists are more competent versions of Castagana? Isn't trolling for psychopaths what the mullahs do when they pound their pulpits, or for that matter what Haggard used to do?

Every now and again, I start feeling a sick sense of how horribly the world is fucked up. I'm feeling it now. It's not the cruel and competent ones who leave me feeling this way--they just get me angry--it's the poor ineffectual dangerous schmucks like Castanaga. The waste--!

Posted November 14, 2006 1:54 AM by Randolph Fritz

Congratulations, Canada, on your national ice-igloo!

...a phrase popularized by Rick Mercer on the show This Hour Has 22 Minutes, which was produced by Salter Street Films of Halifax, Nova Scotia.

That wasn't Salter Street's biggest moneymaker, though. Go on, guess what their big television success was. I dare you.

Posted November 14, 2006 2:53 AM by Anticorium

I think Castagna's "not to be found in Canada" crack refers to the fact that a vast number of SF/F shows, from the '90's to the present, are made in Canada.

X-Files, Millennium, Highlander, Outer Limits, Welcome to Paradox, Stargate: SG-1, Stargate: Atlantis, Earth: Final Conflict, Andromeda, Smallville, Galactica and many others were all produced here in Kanuckistan. As was LEXX of course -- a German/British/Canadian co-production shot in Halifax, Nova Scotia.

Do you think Mr. Castagna might feel a tiny bit threatened by this?

Posted November 14, 2006 3:14 AM by Glenn

Go on, guess what their big television success was. I dare you.

OK, now that's just damned freaky.

Posted November 14, 2006 3:24 AM by Michael Roberts

I'm not sure what a "langauge" is (some piece of networking hardware?), but if he wants to make English the official one, it's no skin off my nose...

Posted November 14, 2006 3:30 AM by David Moles

Two thoughts:

1. He probably does read Steve Stirling and thinks the Draka are the heroes. If you've never seen Steve's screeds on what he thinks of such readers, you have missed a real treat.

2. Of course someone like this guy would hate Roddenberry. Never mind what they did on original Trek: Next Generation abolished money and treated its absence as a good thing, and put an empath in a position of authority on the ship's bridge. Then Deep Space Nine deepened the wound by treating the one dedicated commercialist as comic relief. None of the newer series are kind to capitalism, nationalism, or anything else a Freeper is likely to hold as fundamental values. And they would know that in interviews around the launch of ST:TNG, Roddenberry and some of the cast spoke favorably of socialism in real life as well as fiction. The horror, the horror.

Posted November 14, 2006 3:32 AM by Bruce Baugh

That is what time is for, to keep all things from happening at the same moment. That shall be the only rule of our new fantasy world. That an event happens only once. What has been done, cannot be undone. There is no turning back the sands of time. You can review the past but you cannot change the past.

If you skip his initial sentences, I think he's just saying that he doesn't like the sort of time travel story in which time travellers are able to change the past, and thus the present. It might be the only thing he said which falls into what I'd call the ordinary range of tastes.

#25: Randolph--I don't think the mullahs (and "mullah" probably isn't a good word for that bunch--there are plenty of mullahs who don't do that sort of thing) troll for psychopaths, or at least all the research I've read about says that suicide bombers are sociologically indistinguishable from normal people, though the folks who talk them into being suicide bombers may not be.

As far as I can tell, being vulnerable to getting talked into killing and dying for your group (even if neither actually does any good) is solidly part of being normal. Maybe it shouldn't be, but that's the species we're stuck with.

Posted November 14, 2006 3:41 AM by Nancy Lebovitz

That shall be the only rule of our new fantasy world. That an event happens only once. What has been done, cannot be undone. There is no turning back the sands of time. You can review the past but you cannot change the past.

At a guess, perhaps he's irate with the idea that history repeats itself. He's right to be, I suppose. I would be, if I were in his place -- fascists, even armchair fascists, usually go out in ignominious implosions of bad ideas.

But remember he calls it a fantasy world.

Posted November 14, 2006 4:22 AM by A. J. Luxton

Hey, no badmouthing of Kara Starbuck! She rules.

As for that bizarre quote "A world where anything is possible but not everything is possible,"... well, it certainly sounds a bit schizophrenic. Repressed, and repressive.

Posted November 14, 2006 4:48 AM by A.R.Yngve

I'm not sure which female character set him off.

Sounds like it was Dark Angel that got his goat.

Posted November 14, 2006 4:52 AM by Martin

There is a way to kick him out of Fandom. A quorum of fans has to repeat the phrase "we reject him -- NOT one of us -- gooble, gobble" over and over until the deed is done.

Posted November 14, 2006 5:37 AM by Earl Cooley III

As was LEXX of course -- a German/British/Canadian co-production shot in Halifax, Nova Scotia.

Posted November 14, 2006 6:54 AM by Gag Halfrunt

Just because someone thinks compassion, tolerance and equality are bad things doesn't mean we shouldn't treat them with compassion, tolerance and equality. Indeed, I think it makes it all the more necessary that we do. Kicking this poor, misguided soul out of fandom, were it possible, would only give him something else to kvetch about. We should maybe cluster round him, offer him chicken soup, and make it clear that we want to understand how he went so terribly, terribly wrong, and help him gently back to the path of true wisdom. For one thing, he'd hate it. :)

I looked down the comments to the Free Republic post, and here for your edification is the self-confessed extent of his acquaintance with written science fiction:
_________________________________
I have only read the works and short stories of:

H G Wells
EE Doc Smith
Larry Niven
Robert Heinlein
AE van Vogt
Issac Asimov(Second Foundation, History of the Greeks)
Edgar Allen Poe(Facts in the Case of Mr Valdemaar)
John W Cambell Jr(Who Goes There?)
Arthur C. Clarke(Exile of the Eons)
Dean R Koontz (Phantoms)
____________________________________

Presumably he re-reads them a lot...

Posted November 14, 2006 7:01 AM by Zander

Actually, I'd put a vote in for Babylon 5 as the show that inspired parts of the batshit. The strong women (Ivanova!), the multi-culturalism, the aliens-who-reflect-aspects-of-ourselves... yeah, that'd be my vote.

Ivanova kicks ass. Too bad she's fictional, and therefore can't be convinced to kick this guy's ass.

Posted November 14, 2006 7:20 AM by G. Jules

I have only read the works and short stories of: ...

How much has he really read by Wells? (And has he read ALL of Heinlein?)

Not that I have read everything by Wells, but all the scientific romances seem to be making "social allegories". Also, is he aware that Wells was a socialist?

I'm not even sure where to start with what he appears to have read (and misread) by Heinlein.

Posted November 14, 2006 7:36 AM by Neil Willcox

He reminds me of a review of Buffy I read somewhere, which included the complaint that she was too itty-bitty a girl to kick the ass of adult men. My reaction was mostly along the lines of 'what part of "superhero" is untelligible to you?' but I am now struck by the horrifying thought that there may be two people like Castagna out there. Or maybe he just writes under different noms-de-plume?

Posted November 14, 2006 7:37 AM by lalouve

And what kind of name is Charles Conrad Castagna, hmmmm?

Maybe he's related to Carlos Castaneda. Then again maybe not.

Posted November 14, 2006 7:47 AM by Serge

he definitely doesn't read Elisabeth Vonarburg, Joel Champetier, Francine Pelletier, or Daniel Sernine.

I've got to send this to Elisabeth, and she can pass that on to Joel, Francine and Daniel. I'm sure they'll all be quite hurt that Castagnettes doesn't read their prose.

Posted November 14, 2006 7:50 AM by Serge

India, does that mean I shouldn't point out the title of the post?

Karl Parakenings: Thank you. I was hoping someone would get that.

Mark (15), I went and read your letter, and in the process was illuminated: Castagna favors "...a cosmos not governed by compassion or tolerance or equality, but common sense and merit," because he imagines that he possesses common sense and merit. He is of course a fool. In the kind of world his chosen masters would build, those that have would get, and common sense and merit would be rewarded meagrely if at all.

Steve (20): Dilute! Dilute!

Anticorium (26), what Michael Roberts said. And by the way, Rick Mercer's Talking To Americans made me laugh until my sides were sore.

Bruce (30), Patrick has a longstanding theory that Star Trek takes place in an alternate timeline in which the Soviet Union prevailed.

Serge (42), I figured they weren't exactly pining him.

Posted November 14, 2006 7:55 AM by Teresa Nielsen Hayden

Oh, I agree, Teresa. I've known them, especially Elisabeth, for a long time and they definitely wouldn't be pining for him. I can well imagine what Elisabeth's reaction will be when I pass this on to her. Probably something along the line of...

Bwahahahahah!!!

Posted November 14, 2006 8:04 AM by Serge

A cosmos not governed by compassion or tolerance or equality, but common sense and merit.

Sounds like a member of the Cult Of Ayn Rand to me. Care to take bets he masturbates to the rape scene in The Fountainhead?

Posted November 14, 2006 8:34 AM by Josh Jasper

#24: Typo fixed.

Posted November 14, 2006 8:40 AM by Patrick Nielsen Hayden

Fantastic post, T. I'll just be passing off your words as my own in talking about this guy elsewhere.

"The future is not written" means, I think, I don't have time to read books, and anyway it's too hard.

And that list of authors! Just as expected, only he left off Jerry Pournelle, who I was sure would be there. It's a pity that the guy is now in jail, or else I'd email him to point out that Isaac Asimov was a Socialist. On the other hand, he said he as reading "Issac Asimov", so maybe it's someone else.

And maybe someone should mention to him that English is a European language too?

Posted November 14, 2006 8:51 AM by beth meacham

Evan @ 22 -- I reacted very strongly to your very short SF story there, which pushed all my buttons so well as it came out of left field that I genuinely couldn't tell if I was laughing or crying.

It's really bizarre that while what I have always loved about alternate history is the chance to get timelines like yours, yet when I wrote one it was an everything-worse one.

Posted November 14, 2006 9:22 AM by Jo Walton

Actually, I'd put a vote in for Babylon 5 as the show that inspired parts of the batshit. The strong women (Ivanova!), the multi-culturalism, the aliens-who-reflect-aspects-of-ourselves... yeah, that'd be my vote.

Ivanova also came "out" in the third season (IIRC) of the show.

Posted November 14, 2006 9:30 AM by "Fair and Balanced" Dave

Now, it would be wrong of me to write a sentence referring to the phrases "steroid-mutated" and "Ann Coulter is a goddess". So I won't.

But what, exactly, is an Associate Degree?

And, incidentally, the phrase "trolling for psychos" reminds me of Bruce Sterling's "Distraction" - the automated enemies list that had identified thousands of Net nutcases, and spammed them with encouragements to kill the people on the enemies list...

#43: Does that make Spock the political officer? Because I've always wondered exactly what his job was. It's supposedly something like "Science Officer", but he has way more authority than that suggests...

Posted November 14, 2006 9:33 AM by ajay

I wonder how many nerdy girls turned him down... Hell, even nerds have standards.

Posted November 14, 2006 9:34 AM by Serge

ajay, I think an associate degree is what you get after a two-year course at a community college - but then I'm not American so I could be wrong.

Posted November 14, 2006 9:40 AM by lalouve

You can still be wrong even if you are American, lalouve...

Posted November 14, 2006 9:42 AM by ajay

#53: But in this case she's not wrong, ajay.

Posted November 14, 2006 9:45 AM by TexAnne

"A cosmos not governed by compassion or tolerance or equality, but common sense and merit."

Oh lawzy. I bet he worships Ayn Rand, too.

What a loser.

Posted November 14, 2006 9:49 AM by Maia Cowan

The future is not the current events of our world thrown into outer space.

No, but that sure makes a good story, doesn't it? :)

Posted November 14, 2006 9:49 AM by Jules

The future is not the current events of our world thrown into outer space.

They're thrown into space, not projected? His synonym-finder needs to account for context.

Posted November 14, 2006 9:56 AM by Serge

He probably does read Steve Stirling and thinks the Draka are the heroes.

O_o

If you've never seen Steve's screeds on what he thinks of such readers, you have missed a real treat.

Do you have a link? (I've tried googling but to no avail).

Posted November 14, 2006 10:00 AM by Francis

The future is not the current events of our world thrown into outer space.

Well, I can think of one more current event, well actually person, I'd like to have thrown into outer space.

Posted November 14, 2006 10:11 AM by Steve Buchheit

The Travis Bickle of SF fandom. Eeeeew.

Posted November 14, 2006 10:11 AM by CD318

Well, I can think of one more current event, well actually person, I'd like to have thrown into outer space.

In space, no one can hear you explode, Steve. That reminds me I haven't watched the DVD of Outland in a long time.

Posted November 14, 2006 10:13 AM by Serge

Dumb question: What happened in 1964 to disgrace fandom? Was some whacknut shouting "Down with Ming!" in the streets and attacking Asian-Americans?

Posted November 14, 2006 10:21 AM by Will A

No, Teresa--the title of the post is harmless, as it does not contain the words "scarce gonads."

(On the Internet, nobody knows that you're a twelve-year-old boy.)

Posted November 14, 2006 10:21 AM by India

It's really bizarre that while what I have always loved about alternate history is the chance to get timelines like yours, yet when I wrote one it was an everything-worse one.

Jo, you'll be happy to know that after reading your everything-worse one, I was sufficiently creeped out that I had to run off and read Tooth and Claw again to cleanse the palate. So if you're thinking of writing a some-things-better one, that sounds like a fabulous idea to me...

Posted November 14, 2006 10:31 AM by Evan Goer

Serge, for some reason the song, "Pop goes the weasle" is running through my head. I don't know why. :)

Posted November 14, 2006 10:33 AM by Steve Buchheit

Maybe he has read Spider Robinson, and hated it.

The sad thing is, if you took Castagna's opinions, gave them a shower and wiped the spittle off their face, Robinson would agree with a lot of them. Robinson is a peculiar historical anomaly, somehow managing to combine hippy-dippy big hug luv with Heinleinian authoritarianism disguised as libertarianism, and he certainly thinks sf is supposed to be positive and forward-looking and optimistic and all that. If you want to see Robinson descend to these depths (albeit with fifty more IQ points), read his reviews of Triton and We Who Are About To... .

Posted November 14, 2006 10:37 AM by Scraps

Of course he hates Rod Serling! Rod Serling went to that known leftie spawning ground Antioch College! A place that eagerly embraces the slogan "Bootcamp for the Revolution!" A place that values compassion, tolerance, and equality! A place where--at every graduation--they recite the words of known Leftist Horace Mann: "Be ashamed to die until you have won some victory for humanity." MADNESS, I TELL YOU!

It's also my alma mater, and I just found out I'm on the alumni board. WHOOT! (Does happy dance)

Posted November 14, 2006 10:37 AM by Chryss

I'm reasonably sure that he really, really hates Farscape -- the date and details of his screed line up nicely, especially that Farscape is notably a setting "governed by compassion [and] tolerance [and] equality", a setting where lacking those qualities and laboring for "realpolitik", "common sense", or the sort of reductionist "merit" he probably means, makes you fail, fail, fail.

Also, if memory serves, Farscape started around the time of Lexx and did better timewise, critically, and fanbasewise. (Checking wiki shows I'm basically right, at least as far as US airings go.)

Posted November 14, 2006 10:40 AM by BSD

#31 Nancy, that's my point...Castanaga's abnormalities may lie mainly in is being isolated and not that bright. Someone who's isolated has no-one to tell him he's buying into lies; someone who isn't bright has trouble recognizing lies. And the combination is likely to make a person ornery, too. Believe enough lies and, sure enough, that's delusional. The situation with the suicide bombers is a bit different, but only a bit; there the entire social environment is deceptive.

I don't see the point in piling on the man; he's no longer a threat and he's in all kinds of hot water. Unfortunately, he's likely to be out in a few years, and still a problem; there aren't legal or social devices for dealing with this kind of psychological disability. The people who trolled him, now, they're another matter. And as for his effects on the rep of sf...for some people he's just going to be proof that we're all delusional, and for them every attempt to distance ourselves is just going to connect us more. Oh, well. Personally, I like my castle in the air--how 'bout you?

Posted November 14, 2006 10:43 AM by Randolph Fritz

#62: Google "Walter Breen".

Posted November 14, 2006 10:45 AM by Jon Meltzer

Steve... You're insulting weasels.

Posted November 14, 2006 10:51 AM by Serge

Scraps: Robinson is a peculiar historical anomaly, somehow managing to combine hippy-dippy big hug luv with Heinleinian authoritarianism disguised as libertarianism

I don't know that I'd call Heinlein authoritarian. He is at times, but he's anti-authoritarian at others. One of the things that makes his work interesting is the tension between Heinlein-the-elitist and Heinlein-the-populist.

Sadly, many of his fans just pick up on one of these. Robinson, in particular, has a strong anti-intellectual streak that he wraps up in faux-Heinleinian folksiness.

Posted November 14, 2006 10:59 AM by Avram

Is there any relevance to the fact that 'castagna' is Italian for 'chestnut'?

Posted November 14, 2006 11:03 AM by Fragano Ledgister

Is it true that Spider Robinson wound up in Canada to dodge the draft? That's not a criticism. That's what I had heard a long time ago and so could never understand the connection to Heinlein, who was big on one's military duty.

Posted November 14, 2006 11:04 AM by Serge

Martin: Sounds like it was Dark Angel that got his goat.

For some reason, I was positive it was Xena.*

*Yes, Xena got punched back plenty. I'm betting his selective vision blacked out those parts.
Also that he easily mentally converted a fantasy show to "liberals' idea of SF." He just seems the type.

Posted November 14, 2006 11:11 AM by Aconite

Serge, could be worse, I could be insulting to weasles.

To all the weasles out there, I appologize for comparing you, only in my mind, to Charles Conrad Castagna. I clearly only meant to compare him to a fly infested, worm infused, molded, mildewed, scrap of rotten banana! Or a network executive.

What? What did I say now?

Posted November 14, 2006 11:13 AM by Steve Buchheit

Serge (@74): As I understand it, Robinson wound up in Canada partly because he fell in love with the Maritimes on first visit, while working a dead-end job on Long Island (NY state), and partly because he fell in love with a Canadian.

Scraps (@66): do you have URLs for those Robinson reviews, or do I ask Velma to tuck them in her bag when she comes up here for apple cakelings?

Posted November 14, 2006 11:14 AM by Vicki

Avram, you're right, I worded that carelessly.

Posted November 14, 2006 11:15 AM by Scraps

Thanks for the correction about Spider Robinson, Vicki.

Posted November 14, 2006 11:25 AM by Serge

Come and meet nice Doctor Zaius, Steve...

Posted November 14, 2006 11:25 AM by Serge

I don't know if the Robinson reviews are online. They originally appeared in Galaxy; I don't know whether they ever appeared anywhere else. So, um, I guess inviting people to read them wasn't all that useful. (I don't have most of my prozines anymore.)

Posted November 14, 2006 11:28 AM by Scraps

The sad thing is, if you took Castagna's opinions, gave them a shower and wiped the spittle off their face,

Scraps makes me laugh out loud. But that's also a good point, which is not to say that I think Spider is any kind of whack-job.

Chryss, Antiochians rule. Congratulations.

Posted November 14, 2006 11:31 AM by beth meacham

And did you know that the late America-hater Rod Serling was involved in the campaign to take the Philippines away from Japan? I understand he didn't have a good time, especially when a supply drop fell right on top of one of his best friends.

Posted November 14, 2006 11:35 AM by Serge

Does Spider Robinson have a problem with mutated superbabes? Maybe he'd like to meet Natasha Hentsridge.

Posted November 14, 2006 11:37 AM by Serge

Serge, well, at least "Pop goes the upstanding, socially redeemable member of the Mustela family" is no longer going through my head.

It's been replaced by "I wanna be like you" from Disney's Jungle Book.

"Now I'm the king of the swingers, the jungle VIP."

Posted November 14, 2006 11:38 AM by Steve Buchheit

Now I'm the king of the swingers

Thanks, Steve. Now I have this image of Tarzan in a disco suit.

Posted November 14, 2006 11:45 AM by Serge

Avram (@72) - That's almost what I wanted to say about Heinlein being on Castagna's list, but much better put.

Steve (@76) - I discovered the other day that half my DNA is the same as that of a banana. So I'm only half insulted.

Posted November 14, 2006 11:50 AM by Neil Willcox

I discovered the other day that half my DNA is the same as that of a banana. So I'm only half insulted.

That, Neil, reminds me of a purposefully silly issue of Marvel's "What If" comic-book. It asked what if the Fantastic Four had been fruits instead of people. Instead of the Human Torch, they wound up with a Banana Flambe.

Posted November 14, 2006 11:55 AM by Serge

Neil (#87), then I half apologize.

Serge (#86), if you wish to see John Travolta in "Saturday Night Fever" that's your own thing.

What? What did I say now? Oh bother.

Posted November 14, 2006 12:02 PM by Steve Buchheit

Serge (@88): Not Bananas Foster?

Posted November 14, 2006 12:03 PM by Chryss

I'd rather not see John Revolta in anything, Steve. Except maybe in Carrie, where Sissy Spacek blows up the car he's in.

Posted November 14, 2006 12:06 PM by Serge

Through the miracle of videotape, I just finished watching Olbermann's segment on White Powder Man, and couldn't help noticing that the news camera shots that lingered on the door and window of the perp's dwelling place was showing what looked for all the world like a basement apartment. Who lives upstairs? Mom?

Posted November 14, 2006 12:13 PM by Kip W

Darn, I was all set to humbly accept Teresa's congratulations and Karl (#11) beat me to it.

I will, however, say that I look forward to the cessation of time Castagna posits happening up here. Perhaps he read "Muffin Explains Teleology to the World at Large"?

Posted November 14, 2006 12:14 PM by Northland

'87: I discovered the other day that half my DNA is the same as that of a banana.

Ah, a banana split.

Posted November 14, 2006 12:21 PM by ajay

#26: Go on, guess what their big television success was. I dare you.

Hah! That would be Lexx.

Unless they count as having a hand in Trailer Park Boys, after having been swallowed up by Alliance Atlantis.

Posted November 14, 2006 12:34 PM by colin roald

ajay (#94), Dagnabit, there's another theme song going through my head now. It's like a crazy Count von Count from Sesame Street on psychedelic drugs.

"One banana, two banana, three banana, four."

Posted November 14, 2006 12:35 PM by Steve Buchheit

Steve... Remember the Hannah-Barbera show of the Sixties, The Banana Splits? Yeah, me too, unfortunately.

Posted November 14, 2006 12:38 PM by Serge

Serge, yeah, I'm young enough to remember the Sixties, and Seventies (i.e. not old enough to have done things to block them out at the time).

Posted November 14, 2006 12:58 PM by Steve Buchheit

On Wait, Wait last weekend, the answer to one of the Not My Job questions was that Bob Marley took part of Buffalo Soldier from the Banana Splits theme song.

Posted November 14, 2006 1:34 PM by julia

Will (62), that's a very long story. The short version of it is that some fans -- a group which unfortunately included some of that year's worldcon committee -- had heard rumors that a prominent fanzine fan living in their area was gay, or a pedophile, or a gay pedophile. They didn't do the sensible thing:

IF:

There's hard evidence of illegal activities.

Report it to the police.

There's no hard evidence, but there are firsthand accounts and/or physical indications that point to a possible problem.

Report it to social services.

There are stories circulating via word of mouth.

Ask your informant why they haven't reported the matter to social services or the police. Suggest that they do so, if they think the matter warrants attention.

Not surprisingly, this brought on the most catastrophic set of feuds to ever hit fandom. If you want to read more, go here. The "advice" that they quote from their "legal advisor" (they never said "lawyer," and I don't think he was one) is particularly unconvincing.

Years later, the most prominent and vocal member of that faction, who'd been gafiated for most of the intervening time, came out of the closet. It's a funny old world.

Posted November 14, 2006 1:36 PM by Teresa Nielsen Hayden

Serge (#83):
And did you know that the late America-hater Rod Serling was involved in the campaign to take the Philippines away from Japan?

And then there're the actions of that oh-so-anti-American Roddenberry. How dare he fly B-17 bombing missions against the Japanese, and earn medals while doing so? What kind of patriot is that, I ask you?

Posted November 14, 2006 2:11 PM by protected static

Really, protected static? I wonder what the Swift Boat Liars for Truth would say to that.

Posted November 14, 2006 2:15 PM by Serge

Isn't trolling for psychopaths what the mullahs do when they pound their pulpits, or for that matter what Haggard used to do?

I drew a pair of Haggards- Merle and H.Rider.

I'm going to lose at Celebrity Poker to three Whitmans (Christine, Walt, and Charles), aren't I?

Posted November 14, 2006 3:33 PM by Sandy B.

Sandy - Obviously you missed the 4th Whitman I tucked up my sleeve - Slim

(grinning, ducking, and running)

Scott

Posted November 14, 2006 4:58 PM by Scott

By the way, the the AP consistently spells the guy's name Castagana. Bleedin' terrorists with their furrin names.

Posted November 14, 2006 4:58 PM by Randolph Fritz

Well, I can think of one more current event, well actually person, I'd like to have thrown into outer space.

In space, no one can hear you explode, Steve.

Posted November 14, 2006 5:00 PM by Nicole J. LeBoeuf-Little

re: #41 #73

What I think of when I see a name like "Charles Conrad Castagna" is that a bunch of British public school types, finding out all the "good places" to ski were already taken, decamped for Abruzzo for a long weekend of drinking and semi-successfully falling down hills, ol' Charlie meets up with one of the locals at one of the "don't we look like a American place? Really!" cheap wine and oddly interpreted burger bars. Nine months later, said local names the kid after the one-night stand, figuring he might be able to track down papa someday, if only that said papa hadn't given the real name of a US Astronaut he saw on an old Nat Geo cover pasted on the restaurant wall.

Okay, maybe it's just the Vicodin (minus an appendix since a couple back)......

Posted November 14, 2006 5:01 PM by Laurie

Sure, Nicole, but they definitely did explode within the Reality established by Outland. I know, I know, that Reality also features elite assassins who stop right under surveillance cameras to put high-powered rifles together, and who then proceed to shoot at everything that moves. At which point exploding bodies don't seem like such a big goofup.

Posted November 14, 2006 5:04 PM by Serge

From The Voyage of the Swift Boat:

"There once was a boy named Charles Conrad Castagna, and he almost deserved it."

Posted November 14, 2006 5:05 PM by Aconite

Regarding “forcible separation from fandom”, see also Walter Breen’s Wikipedia entry, including the discussion portion.

Posted November 14, 2006 5:09 PM by Michael Maggard

I think there's limited value in examining the ideas and comments of lunatics to understand their motivating ideology. You might as well read the Unibomber's manifesto to discover the evils of left wing ideology.

The isolation thing is creepy. People evolved as social creatures, and we tend to evaluate our own beliefs and actions and plans based on those of our friends/communities. The potential for a very isolated real-world life, and the way the internet can bring wackos with shared beliefs and ideas together, makes it possible to really amplify a specific set of beliefs--to go from a mild, background anti-black prejudice to a more and more intense hatred of blacks as the root of all American social problems, or to go from a concern about the treatment of animals in labs and factory farms to a willingness to assault people and destroy property to stop it. There's a kind of feedback process that goes on sometimes, where you adjust your sense of "what's a reasonable way to think" based on those around you, and a whole group of you drifts toward more extreme points of view.

This is the flipside of the wonderful ways that the net lets you find communities of interest.

Posted November 14, 2006 5:13 PM by albatross

Oh, well. Outland, outer space, same diff, right? It's all, y'know, out there.

Posted November 14, 2006 6:28 PM by Nicole J. LeBoeuf-Little

Yup, Nicole. And it's set on Eye-o. Or is it Ee-o?

Posted November 14, 2006 6:31 PM by Serge

Serge writes in #113:

Yup, Nicole. And it's set on Eye-o. Or is it Ee-o?

After the fashion of most planetary scientists I've heard, I pronounce it "Eye-o." Brother Guy Consolmagno, a planetary scientist himself, pronounces it "Ee-o."

I resolved the inconsistency by explaining to him that "How you pronounce it depends on what part of Io you're from."

Posted November 14, 2006 6:42 PM by Bill Higgins-- Beam Jockey

Francis, I'll have to see if I have any of the Stirling rants about Draka lovers archived. Terms like "moral cretins" are abundant.

Patrick's theory about Trek history has much merit, but I most love Mark Jones' claim that US culture was rebuilt after WW3 around the nucleus of senior FEMA officials and their families, who of course survived in their special bunkers.

Albatross, that was really well said about isolation and communities of interest. I think there's a basic responsibility to sometimes ask questions like "What would I do if I'm wrong?" and "How would I tell?"

Posted November 14, 2006 6:47 PM by Bruce Baugh

Bill Higgins... I myself pronounce it Ee-o because that's how most Latin languages pronounce it. But I like your explanation better.

Posted November 14, 2006 6:55 PM by Serge

Serge, yeah, I'm young enough to remember the Sixties, and Seventies (i.e. not old enough to have done things to block them out at the time).

Oh, yeah? Well, I saw them live, man....

Posted November 14, 2006 7:07 PM by hamletta

I'm old enough to remember DJ's telling us about new songs by the Beatles. Unfortunately, my mom prefered having the radio on the Guy Lombardo Orchestra.

Posted November 14, 2006 7:14 PM by Serge

# "You say Ee-oh, I say Eye-oh.... " #

Posted November 14, 2006 7:24 PM by Mitch Wagner

Mitch Wagner... Say, that sounds like a good idea for a masquerade presentation, with Fred Asteroid and Ginger Rotors dueling thru songs while gracefully dancing around the stage.

Posted November 14, 2006 7:28 PM by Serge

To tell you the truth, I can't actually tell what his stance on Lexx was. He seemed to think it was a good thing. On the other hand, he seemed to be objecting to steroid mutated hyper-babes punching out men without consequence... which was a running theme with Lexx... Ellen Dubin, Eva Haberman, Xenia Seeberg and Louise Wischermann all played mutant, two fisted predator women.

The series was all about frustration - the James Bond super-stud super-man who was both a eunuch and absolutely without ambition or motivation, the underachiever gifted with ultimate power who continues to underachieve, the turbocharged love slave who remains a virgin, the ultimate weapon... ultimately useless. It was the fantasy landscape of a twelve year old, seething with desires but no idea what to do with any of it.

I could almost accept it was one of those shows he hated, except that he doesn't. Or does. I can't imagine that he wouldn't realize the show was Canadian.

As for that stuff about a world based on achievement and merit, I can only report what Jeff Hirschfield, one of the key writers, told me once: "The impulse to heroism is the same impulse to bumbling off a cliff." Lexx in a nutshell.

Everything about the first three seasons seems profoundly antithetical to everything he seemed to believe.

Posted November 14, 2006 9:46 PM by Den Valdron

# "Ee-yo, Eye-oh, potato, po-tah-to. E I E I O." #

Posted November 14, 2006 10:02 PM by Mitch Wagner

Jumping off from # 111.
I like what Pratchett said in Men At Arms about Edward d'Eath:

Individuals aren't naturally paid-up members of the human race, except biologically. They need to be bounced around by the Brownian motion of society, which is a mechanism by which human beings constantly remind one other that they are . . . well . . . human beings.

It's easy to lose perspective if you're surrounded by people that always agree.

Posted November 14, 2006 10:04 PM by Sharon M

Sharon M (#123) wrote:

It's easy to lose perspective if you're surrounded by people that always agree.

Oh, absolutely.

(Someone had to do it....)

Posted November 14, 2006 10:09 PM by JBWoodford

This is slightly OT, but it's been bothering me for a while.

I liked Tony Daniel's short stories, such as "A Dry, Quiet War" and "Grist," but the novel series developed from "Grist," Metaplanetary and Superluminal, became more and more unreadable.

I still can't decide whether he meant his Napoleonic Wars / Second World War rip-off, with politics that echoed present memes of "appeasement" and "take the war to the enemy," to be ironic in Colbertian fashion avant Colbert, or actually right-wing (libertarian stream).

In any case, it all became less and less real. In RL, Daniel is / was a theatre person, and the artist characters of "Grist" were convincing. The novels are that kind of SF that showcases the technology (worked out in great detail) with cardboardy characters.

Posted November 14, 2006 10:11 PM by sara

You nailed it, Mitch.

Posted November 14, 2006 10:12 PM by Teresa Nielsen Hayden

Hamletta (#117), so did I, see it live that is. But as the old quote goes, "If you remember the sixties, you weren't there." Well, I was born in that there decade, and I had an early waking. They sky was bluer then. I remember the smell of pot then, but wasn't old enough, or hip enough, to smoke when I was kindergarten.

Bill Higgins (#114) "I resolved the inconsistency by explaining to him that 'How you pronounce it depends on what part of Io you're from.'"

Ahhh, dagnabit. There's another song!

"I thought you all preferred I-O-Wah."

"We do, but we like to say it I-O-Way."

"Oh, there's nothing halfway about the Io way to greet you, when we greet you, which we may not do at all... So what the heck, you're welcome, glad to have you with us, even though we may not ever mention it again."

Posted November 14, 2006 10:20 PM by Steve Buchheit

I never turn down a dare, so I have to try this paragraph:

A world where anything is possible but not everything is possible. Anything can happen, but not all things can happen at once.

He does, actually, prove the first sentence with the second here. You can't have anything but not everything possible. Words don't, in my (admittedly limited) experience, work that way. Anything allows for everything. Everything includes anything. Perhaps he meant, 'A multitude of possibilities, but each occuring in their order and place.' (It is more likely that he meant, 'I am verrry deep. Go me!')

That is what time is for, to keep all things from happening at the same moment.

Because without time, things would be happening, like me moving the stapler on my desk in the next five seconds... oh, wait.

That shall be the only rule of our new fantasy world. That an event happens only once.

He really prefers one-night-stands?

What has been done, cannot be undone.

He's afraid to take his shoes off, because he may not remember how to retie them. Thus he justifies the smell.

There is no turning back the sands of time.

Metaphores to mumble... mix 'em and cook 'em up in a pile like gumbo.

You can review the past but you cannot change the past.

Since what he's just written was written in the past, he can't go back and fix it in an attempt to make more sense. That's what time is for: to justify letting pseudo-stream-of-consciousness unintentional sophism.

Posted November 14, 2006 10:28 PM by Painini

Er, letting... sophism stand. Oy gevalt.

Posted November 14, 2006 10:30 PM by Painini

That is what time is for, to keep all things from happening at the same moment. That shall be the only rule of our new fantasy world. That an event happens only once. What has been done, cannot be undone. There is no turning back the sands of time. You can review the past but you cannot change the past.

This is actually what I find to be the most lucid and comprehensible paragraph of the rant.

Just watch Voyager for a while until you are ready to hurl the TV, or at least select episode writers, across the room for writing YET ANOTHER episode where at the end of the episode someone goes back in time or fails to go back in time or something so that the whole story never "really" happened.

Any long-running science fiction show gets to do that once; maybe, if the primary focus of the show is time travel they can get away with once every other season, but that's it. I can think of three such Voyager shows off the top of my head.

(You know, excessive Voyager exposure might also explain some of the rest of his rant)

Posted November 14, 2006 10:42 PM by Daniel Martin

What Daniel Said.

I'll add to that: Parallel universes with evil versions of the protagonists, characters who become "out of phase" with their fellows and walk invisibly amoung them until the last scene, characters immured on escape-proof prison planets, Holodeck games gone awry . . . owwww, I'm getting myself depressed.

I'm glad that Trek Brand Comfort Food is out of production. It has nothing to do with political correctness, lady warriors, or the interstellar liberal conspiracy.

Posted November 14, 2006 11:01 PM by Stefan Jones

I'm bothered by that sentence, "There is no turning back the sands of time." The proverbial "sands of time" are contained in hourglasses. You can't prohibit their turning back without making hourglasses into single-use artifacts.

Posted November 14, 2006 11:20 PM by Teresa Nielsen Hayden

Furthermore, I give up: nobody is ever going to notice that "Anthraces cargo scandal" is another anagram of "Charles Conrad Castagna."

Posted November 14, 2006 11:31 PM by Teresa Nielsen Hayden

Oh, Teresa! I did. You already told us. You said "Then I shouldn't point out the title of the thread"—and I kicked myself for not noticing before, but I thought that was the giveaway. Never thought to mention it.

Posted November 14, 2006 11:33 PM by Xopher

Damn. With that last image, Teresa, you have the opening to Days of Our Lives -- which I have never watched! -- in my head. (I saw the opening more than a few times, because my best friend's mom watched it when I was growing up, largely at their house, lo these thirty years agone.) Is there a parallel word to "earworm" for a repeating track that includes video?

Posted November 14, 2006 11:34 PM by Bruce Adelsohn

teresa,

i registered it as soon as i saw the other anagram (cause the da vinci code thread makes me giggle every time the book or movie is mentioned, & really feels like all i need to know about either*).

i just figured everyone is even smarter than me & keeping their knowing silences.

*well, that and "possibly the first incidence in cinematic history of someone speaking latin into a cellphone."

Posted November 14, 2006 11:55 PM by miriam beetle

also, i still periodically get the phrase "ace dindon lavoir" stuck in my head.

Posted November 14, 2006 11:58 PM by miriam beetle

"steroid mutated superbabes" of the 90s:

gotta be Xena, Warrior Princess, doncha think?

Posted November 15, 2006 12:00 AM by Lizzy L

Teresa writes at #43:

> Steve (20): Dilute! Dilute!

Sorry - was I incoherent?

Just pointing out how Castagna's writing resembles canonical crackpot rantings - and www.timecube.com is the most inspiring crackpot site on the web for me - it's been going forever, it's frequently updated, and it *never* makes a scrap of sense.

The "separated at birth" bit was a reference to an old feature which used to run in Private Eye.

Oops - no, Wikipedia tells me the feature was called "Lookalikes", and that when the American magazine Spy copied it, *they* called it "Separated at Birth".

Who do I trust - wikipedia or my memory? I wouldn't put big money on either, frankly.

Posted November 15, 2006 12:13 AM by Steve Taylor

There's nothing *inherently* wrong with using the Official Sci-Fi(TM) Brand Mandatory Plots: evil twins, body-swapping, repeating days, inescapable prisons, and the always-popular It's A Wonderful Life-style what-might-have-been episode. Every genre show worth its salt has done them, and some quite well. Buffy's "The Wish" is a *fantastic* what-might-have-been; Stargate's "Window of Opportunity" is one of the funniest takes on the repeating day I've ever seen, and therefore one of like three episodes of Stargate I'm willing to watch to the end.

The trouble is when *every* episode has a Mandatory Plot(TM). Voyager does not do well, by this measure.

Posted November 15, 2006 12:34 AM by nona

Well, I was born in that there decade, and I had an early waking. They sky was bluer then. I remember the smell of pot then, but wasn't old enough, or hip enough, to smoke when I was kindergarten.

Dude, neither was I. I was talking about the Banana Splits. I saw them live at a race track in the 2nd grade--�Pimlico, I think.

Sorry, shoulda made it clearer what I was talkin' about.

Oh, and about our pal, Mr. Castagana, Radar has the FBI affadavit with all the gory details:

One of the Stewart letters featured a "picture of a recently deceased tsunami victim with a condition known as Priapism, an erect penis on a cadaver." Handwritten on the picture were the words, "Jon Stewart, Fuck Your Wife."

Stay Classy, Katherine Harris supporters!

I will never make that "L" sign on my forehead, ever, ever again!

Posted November 15, 2006 12:47 AM by hamletta