quoi?

Posted December 8, 2006 2:11 PM by Greg London

Anybody seen The Fountain? If so, what'd ya think?

Posted December 8, 2006 2:11 PM by Scott H

The Fountain?

To me anyway... Clumsy storytelling. Great visuals. Still, like I said elsewhere, at times I had a feeling of having wandered into Jonathan Livingston Seagull. But it did have Ellen Burstyn, which makes up for some of it. Woohoo, Ellen!

What about you, Scott H?

Posted December 8, 2006 2:16 PM by Serge

testing sentiments
the calendar of feeling
announces winter

deeper the blue sky
unready to give us the
blessing of snowfall

Posted December 8, 2006 2:17 PM by Fragano Ledgister

In re Serge #3:

I was debating whether to go see it this weekend. But since you asked, I would recommend any of the following DVDs:

* Rome (HBO miniseries)
* Code 46 (smartish SF starring Tim Robbins & Samantha Morton)
* District B13 (forgettable dystopian story, AMAZING stunts. Can be safely turned off at the 20 minute mark)
* Subject Two (moody, Frankenstein-y)

Posted December 8, 2006 2:29 PM by Scott H

Does anyone know if Natura Ipsa Sufficit is good Latin for "Nature itself suffices" or "Nature alone is enough"? I want to use it as the motto for my Radical Pantheists' organization (yet unborn).

Posted December 8, 2006 2:37 PM by Xopher

Scott H @ 5...

It's not that I hated the movie. It simply was very flawed and could have been fixed by knocking out the director, fixing his script, then waking him up. Hell, even I could have improved the story, and I couldn't write my way out of a paper bag. (Well, maybe out of a small paper bag.)

As for your recommendations... Are they all HBO-type stories? The only one I've even heard of is Rome and I've never even seen it. That'll change since I got my wife the DVD of the first season for Christmas.

Posted December 8, 2006 2:38 PM by Serge

There's only a little over two hours left in TBoggs' Create your own Victor Davis "I Was A Teenaged Classicist" Hanson Blog Post contest. Prize: the swanky four-disc edition of Ben Hur.

Scott Lemieux already wrote his.

Posted December 8, 2006 2:44 PM by Teresa Nielsen Hayden

Prize: the swanky four-disc edition of Ben Hur.

Ah, there is somebody out there besides my wife and I who likes that movie.

Posted December 8, 2006 2:51 PM by Serge

#6: It's certainly grammatically correct and all the words mean the correct things. I don't know, off hand, if there is a more idiomatic way to say it. I think it's fine, but I'm hardly an expert.

Posted December 8, 2006 2:55 PM by JC

Xopher - I read at Wonkette (and verified at the Washington Post) that the grave marker, with appropriate symbol, for the Wiccan soldier from Nevada has FINALLY been approved.

My last latin class was back in 1987, so I can't help with your motto. Do you have room for Agnostic Animists?

Posted December 8, 2006 2:57 PM by Tania

Xopher @6: Natura ipsa sufficit is right, I think, although my worry is that it could be misread as "Nature suffices for itself" - and so you may need to do additional explaining. How about Natura solum sufficit - "Nature alone suffices"? I suppose then you will only find that people think you are saying "Nature is enough for the sun".

Posted December 8, 2006 2:59 PM by candle

#10: Thanks!

#11: Thanks for the update. And absolutely. Radical Pantheism is a choice to worship the universe in its physical substance as such; no belief is required, nor credo espoused, other than...well, natura ipsa sufficit.

#12: Thanks! Maybe I could just more concisely phrase it as Natura Sufficit? The idea is that Nature is so amazing, so wondrous, so infinitely complex in itself, that no one who is sufficiently aware of these facts needs to postulate any Divine force beyond Nature. I like the 'Ipsa' for that reason, partly because it also means "herself" (if I'm correct in believing that 'natura' is a feminine noun). This pleases my Wiccan bits!

Posted December 8, 2006 3:09 PM by Xopher

I very nearly ended up as a colleague of Victor Davis Hanson, you know.

VDH:

"With the trials of this administration having been carefully considered, not least their fortitude in the face of the decadence and corruption of the culture around them, it seems quite correct for me to remind you once again of the disastrous outcome of the Peloponnesian War. There too, a free, liberal, and open society was faced by an implacable enemy who cared little for the luxuries of life or for the false virtues of "freedom of speech"; and there too they were led astray by a populist crusade to fight overseas in distant Sicily, leaving their fields and homesteads undefended. For the relevance to the contemporary situation, read only Afghanistan for Sicily; and for Themistocles, George W. Bush. Oh no, hang on."

Posted December 8, 2006 3:12 PM by candle

This pleases my Wiccan bits!

Hmm...

Posted December 8, 2006 3:12 PM by Serge

Xopher - Natura sufficit would get the job done, but if you like the ipsa, leave it in by all means. I think it sounds better with the three terms, anyway. (solum *would* also have the meaning you want, but you are probably better off sticking with the one you chose yourself.)

natura certainly is a feminine noun; I've been capitalising it as a kind of reflex so that it refers unambiguously to the goddess, but then I'm thinking in Roman terms. I reckon you should see ipsa as meaning "herself" first and foremost, whether talking about goddess or, well, phenomenon. "Nature herself suffices" seems fine to me in English.

That's probably enough Latin. (ed.)

Posted December 8, 2006 3:18 PM by candle

candle: But isn't "solum" the adverbial form? "Nature only suffices, it doesn't do anything else." I'd say "Natura sola sufficit." OTOH, "Natura sufficit" is simple and elegant.

Posted December 8, 2006 3:20 PM by TexAnne

What Serge Said.

I don't think the moral is nearly as deep or profound of ineffable as the filmmaker thinks it was.

Assuming I'm not totally not getting it.

Posted December 8, 2006 3:21 PM by Stefan Jones

TexAnne: Ouch, you're right. I really ought to be able to do this correctly, you know. Sorry, Xopher!

Posted December 8, 2006 3:22 PM by candle

Candle, is that quote real? He actually said that?

Posted December 8, 2006 3:23 PM by Teresa Nielsen Hayden

Oooo, sola! I like sola.

Rats, now I have to think. LOL

Posted December 8, 2006 3:25 PM by Xopher

No, I was wrong; here's Scott Lemieux's entry for the VDH competition.

Posted December 8, 2006 3:26 PM by Teresa Nielsen Hayden

Maybe neither of us is getting it, Stefan. It's like Aronofsky was trying to do a pastiche of a Sixties movie. I probably am very bourgeois in my tastes, I guess. Still, the image of that tree floating inside a bubble zipping thru space was rather neat. Too bad the storytelling wasn't up to the level of the imagery. Come to think of it, that is a complaint one can often come up where F/SF movies are concerned.

Posted December 8, 2006 3:28 PM by Serge

I'm making a bet with myself that someone is soon going to post a poem of theirs in Latin.

Posted December 8, 2006 3:29 PM by Serge

One of the signers-on to the Project for a New American Century was Donald Kagan, the leading modern historian of the Peloponnesian War. It's like he didn't even read his own books.

Posted December 8, 2006 3:30 PM by Alex Cohen

TexAnne: Sorry, no. I'm making it up in response to Teresa's invitation @8. I could probably have been clearer about that.

And before anyone says anything, the argument it kind of proposes isn't supposed to make sense.

Posted December 8, 2006 3:33 PM by candle

candle #14: Now that would have been interesting.

Posted December 8, 2006 3:36 PM by Fragano Ledgister

candle, I think it was TNH, not TexAnne, who asked the question you answer in #26.

Posted December 8, 2006 3:36 PM by Xopher

#25: Donald Kagan was one of the professors that resigned from Cornell after the Willard Straight takeover in 1969 (others include Allan Bloom and Thomas Sowell) which makes him about as neocon as one can get.

Posted December 8, 2006 3:39 PM by Jon Meltzer

Actually, Candle, one suspects VDH would say something like this:

Our leaders should take heart from the example of the Pelopponesian War for that conflict demonstrated that a state based on the virtues that would go on to make Western Civilisation great could triumph over a decadent, corrupt regime which sought to spread its anti-Hellenic, revolutionary ideology to all the states of the old Mediterranean world. George W. Bush should take heart from the example of Lysander the Spartan, that heroic exemplar of all that is good, and fear not the Iranian demagogues such as Ahmadinejad, that heir of the rabble-rouser Cleisthenes.

Posted December 8, 2006 3:41 PM by Fragano Ledgister

Your C-SPAN geek notes interesting programs coming up on BookTV (which is C-SPAN 2 if it's available on your cable or satellite channel) this weekend.

Jason Epstein, Print on Demand: A Revolution in the Making,: 3:15 PM Saturday, 45 minutes long.

Marvin Kalb, Allan Adler, Paul Aiken, Jonathan Band, Andrew Glass, David Robbins, Sidney Verba, The Google Print Project and the Future of the Written Word : 10:30 AM Sunday, 1 hour and 40 minutes long.

And for a change of pace:

After Words: Larry Kahaner, author of AK-47: The Weapon That Changed the Face of War, interviewed by Peter Singer: 9 PM Saturday, 6 PM and 9 PM Sunday, 55 minutes long.

Anybody here familiar with the Epstein book or the Kahaner book?

Posted December 8, 2006 3:42 PM by Bill Higgins-- Beam Jockey

Serge @ #7:

With the exception of Rom, all the titles I listed in #5 were reasonably current movies on DVD. I've got one of those all-you-care-to-watch for $20 / month deals, so I'm willing to experiment on obscure titles. The ones listed were all surprisingly good.

I wade through the crap so you don't have to.

Posted December 8, 2006 3:50 PM by Scott H

Hmm, two mistakes in the matter of a few posts. I am evidently half-asleep. Sorry, Teresa, and TexAnne, for not reading the post properly. What I meant to say was: I decided to see if I could parody VDH in a comment rather than in an email to TBoggs. Probably I should explain this stuff rather than just doing it. I hope I haven't caused *too* much confusion.

Fragano: you're right, the example of Lysander does seem appropriate right now. Then again, I've always liked the Spartans.

OK. I think I shall limit myself in future to declarative statements. I am tired.

Posted December 8, 2006 3:51 PM by candle

Scott @ 32 says: I wade through the crap so you don't have to.

It's a dirty job, but someone has got to do it. And this reminds me how much I miss Joe Bob Briggs.

Posted December 8, 2006 3:58 PM by Serge

Before I forget... People here have probably seen that Visa commercial that shows a cafeteria running its customers and their credit cards thru with speed and efficiency until someone (gasp!) pays with cash. Is it just me who's disturbed by the ad's accidental message that no system can or should cope with people who Do Things Differently? That being said, what the heck is that music the ad is using? I've come across it in some old Warner Bros cartoons of the Forties, and it's been used in cartoons, usually when Wiley Coyote is observing the sequence of events of his latest Rube Goldberg contraption, before the anvil falls on his head.

Posted December 8, 2006 4:04 PM by Serge

Yeah, what ever happened to Joe Bob? Last I saw of him was that hosting gig he used to do on TNT or whatever.

Posted December 8, 2006 4:05 PM by Scott H

I was hoping someone would know, Scott H. I miss Joe Bob's Drive-in Theater on TNT.

Posted December 8, 2006 4:06 PM by Serge

Heck, I miss the TNT of the Nineties, when they'd have things like Summer Bummer, which would show old SF movies about the end of the world. (Come to think of it, it's been ages since I saw crack in the world.)

Posted December 8, 2006 4:10 PM by Serge

There was a story on NPR's All Things Considered on Monday about how NCOs at Ft. Carson in Colorado have been hazing soldiers suffering from PTSD. Officials have been drumming those ill soldiers out of the army rather than giving them the mental health care they need (and the army is supposed to provide). What's even more appalling is that the NCOs doing the hazing didn't see anything wrong with doing it. The officials had no comment. Everything seems to be scrupulously documented though.

I'm reminded of Jonathan Shay's _Achilles in Vietnam_. Among other things, it explains why PTSD was more common in veterans of Vietnam than of veterans of previous wars. I read it almost exactly a year ago. What struck me at the time were the parallels the Iraq War had to Vietnam in this context.

Posted December 8, 2006 4:15 PM by JC

Somewhere about here I inadvertently created a challenge to write a romance in the style of Dale Brown, bestselling technothriller author. Imagine my suprise when I looked at the Bs on my bookshelf and found that he had already written one!* Anyway, here's an excerpt from Sky Angels. I suggest that everyone who likes technothrillers or romances look away now.

It was a starlit night at HAWC, the High-technology Aerospace Weapons Centre in Southern Nevada. As he walked into the hanger USAF Lt Col Patrick Maclanahan looked up into the sky. That was where the trim, sandyhaired officer wanted to be; flying in a cutting edge jet rather than managing research projects on the ground.

Everyone else had left for the night, but Maclanahan was determined to sort out the bugs in the weapons system submenu. He climbed into the darkened B-2 Spirit stealth bomber and retrieved the troublesome electronic box, intending to tinker with the display. Just as he got the box hooked up to diagnostics, the phone rang.

"Hello? Oh hello General. No, I'm the only one here... the security system is off? Several checkpoints appear to be unmanned? No one released the dogs this evening..." He paused, abruptly distracted by a shapely woman's leg propped up on the crew ladder of the aircraft in front of him.

"Sorry General, can I get back to you?" Without waiting for an answer he hung up.

"Patrick! There you are," said Wendy Tork. "What are you doing here? Is there anything wrong?"

Maclanahan showed her the box. "I've been trying to get this to work all day. The weapons submenus consistently choose the wrong weapon parameters for the loadout."

[For my own reasons I've chosen not to copy the page and a half explaining how the Multi Function Display is supposed to integrate the onboard radar and IR, as well as external satellite, radar and other information sources along with GPS and inertial guidance with the currently available weapons as well as the current threat and mission parameters to offer the optimum selection(s) of weapon choices.]

"....but it doesn't recognise which weapon is in each position in the CSRL, so it might launch a SLAM as though it were a SDB or vice versa, with an obvious reduction in effectiveness."

"Patrick, that's not important now though, is it? I mean, what are the odds that terrorists or foreign agents are going to break into this highly secure and isolated airbase, forcing us to escape in an experimental bomber, then discover that we're the only ones in a position to make an attack against an immediate threat to world peace?"

"Pretty slim, I guess," said Maclanahan, "but you did ask what's wrong."

"No Patrick," said Wendy, "I meant is there something wrong with you? You've seemed so distant. Is it... is there someone else?"

Patrick looked at her. How could he be so blind? Ignoring the brief flutter of guilt, he took her in his arms and kissed her.

"Wendy, I could never love another... woman..."

As his voice stuttered his eyes flicked up involuntarily to the where the dark nose of his specially modified B-52 stared down at him reproachfully...

(Somehow, I doubt Dale Brown will be paying me $.20 for this post; worse still, if I ever try to join the Romance Writers of America I will undoubtedly be blackballed. Worst of all, I've put an annotated version, which will explain some of the Dale Brown specific bits here.)

You can look again now. Next I'll have to see if any Dale Brown has been translated into latin - I've seen Harry Potter in latin, so who knows?

* He hasn't really. I made it up. Sorry.

Posted December 8, 2006 4:16 PM by Neil Willcox

, what the heck is that music the ad is using? I've come across it in some old Warner Bros cartoons of the Forties,

that would be Powerhouse.

Posted December 8, 2006 4:18 PM by cleek

Thanks, cleek!

Posted December 8, 2006 4:26 PM by Serge

Serge, glad to be of trivial assistance :)

and if you like (or have fond memories of) Looney Tunes music, you'll probably like The Carl Stalling Project.

Posted December 8, 2006 4:34 PM by cleek

Thanks again, cleek.

Posted December 8, 2006 4:35 PM by Serge

Candle (26), did you post it to TBoggs' site?

Posted December 8, 2006 4:39 PM by Teresa Nielsen Hayden

Teresa: no, I didn't. I'm not entirely sure I want to, for reasons that in turn I'm not entirely sure about. But at least part of it is that my various webmail accounts are screwed up at the moment. Probably it is something to do with my browser.

Still, the deadline is 5pm PST, isn't it? That gives me a few hours to think about it still. I doubt the Ben Hur set is going to be sent across the Atlantic even in the best case scenario, though. (My brush with CSU Fresno is long - well, a year - in the past now.)

Posted December 8, 2006 5:07 PM by candle

On the subject of the greatest movie critic evar: he'll be displaying his chat-fu here on the 14th. Anne-Bob says check it out.

Posted December 8, 2006 5:29 PM by TexAnne

JC @ #39:

That report raised quite a few eyebrows, including of the Senatorial variety.

Investigations are underway.

Posted December 8, 2006 5:36 PM by Stefan Jones

bill,

Anybody here familiar with the Epstein book or the Kahaner book?

epstein did a piece on the same subject in a recent new york review of books... oh, here it is: books @ google.

he waxes enthusiastic about the idea of book atms, you know, that you type in the title & the book is printed, bound, cut, & spit out while-u-wait.

coincidentally, i read that article not long after there was the big discussion here about how that dream is not really feasible with today's technology or bookstore realities.

Posted December 8, 2006 6:17 PM by miriam beetle

Re: The Fountain

I feel deeply ambivalent about the movie — on the one hand it was very interesting to look at, and very pleasant to listen to. On the other, its storytelling was utterly lacking in coherence.

It's something that might appeal strongly to those who can disengage themselves from causal logic, and who are idiosyncratically aesthetically oriented towards surrealism and slowly-moving strongly contrasting visual patterns and slow, moody music.

And isn't that a wonderfully roundabout way of saying "trippy"?

It's better than π (Pi), which had similar flaws in storytelling, but was far uglier to the eye and ear.

Posted December 8, 2006 7:05 PM by Owlmirror

The New York Review of Books now has a blog, A Different Stripe: http://nyrb.typepad.com/ . It looks pretty damn good.

Posted December 8, 2006 7:06 PM by Andy

Serge @24
Candle, maybe, but certainly not me.

Well, apart from a winter haiku. But that hardly counts.

Non sola aethra
Sole ardescit mane
Sed ego quoque.

Posted December 8, 2006 7:10 PM by abi

Serge @35: [..] That being said, what the heck is that music the ad is using? I've come across it in some old Warner Bros cartoons of the Forties, and it's been used in cartoons, usually when Wiley Coyote is observing the sequence of events of his latest Rube Goldberg contraption, before the anvil falls on his head.

I think it might be Powerhouse, by Raymond Scott. Here is a YouTube link to an animation by Antonio Linhares, in the style of Oskar Fischinger, to Scott's composition (I can tell you the name of the piece and the musician, because Antonio identified them in the info accompanying the animation).

It's a pretty cool piece. I had recently seen a tribute to Oskar Fischinger at the Dryden Theatre (at the George Eastman House), and when I saw this animation on YouTube, it stuck in my memory.

Posted December 8, 2006 7:14 PM by Rob Rusick

And isn't that a wonderfully roundabout way of saying "trippy"?

'Trippy' is the very word that came to my mind, Owlmirror, as I was watching The Fountain.

It's frustrating to watch a movie that could have been great.

Posted December 8, 2006 7:29 PM by Serge

A Latin haiku, abi? I guess that'll do for me to feel like I won my bet with myself.

Posted December 8, 2006 7:30 PM by Serge

Thanks, Rob. Cleek had already posted a link to Wikipedia about Powerhouse, but getting something on YouTube is great too. Thanks again.

Posted December 8, 2006 7:32 PM by Serge

Serge @55
On the one hand, I haven't done any Latin composition* since I finished university and decided that I wasn't a good enough Classicist to pursue it further.

On the other hand, I am weak, I've had some whisky, and it was you inciting me. Aren't you a bit beardy for a muse?

On the gripping hand, I do actually enjoy composing haiku in entirely unsuitable languages. I no longer have the C++ one I wrote years ago, but you get the idea.

------
* barring the inevitable slogan requests

Posted December 8, 2006 7:37 PM by abi

Neil @#40, "a shapely woman's leg" or "a woman's shapely leg?"

What's that called? Dangling participles? ;)

Oh, and wouldn't a B-52 look down "bombastically" rather than "reproachfully?"

Posted December 8, 2006 7:47 PM by Linkmeister

Aren't you a bit beardy for a muse?

Probably, abi, but I've never been called a muse before. You've made my day.

Posted December 8, 2006 8:08 PM by Serge

(Picked up from the previous thread)

Good question, Susan, about feline chirality. I'll have to see what it is that the Bad Cat does.

Posted December 8, 2006 8:10 PM by Serge

That Linhares animation sounds like it was done to one of Stalling's adaptations of the central section of Powerhouse, for some Looney Tune or other. Just noting that there's more to it than that, and that the other main section is probably as familiar but not as well-known (it tends to show up in Roadrunner-type chase scenes; I can hum it for you if you're within shouting distance...)

Posted December 8, 2006 8:21 PM by Chris Quinones

Tania and Xopher, it's not the grave marker that's been approved. It's a plaque in a state veterans cemetary. It's a great step forward, but it's not a grave marker and not a national cemetary.

Posted December 8, 2006 8:41 PM by Marilee

Holy Cow, Batman, Rumsfeld may be sued for torture!

http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20061208/ap_on_go_ca_st_pe/detainee_abuse

If ever I had considered bribing a judge, it would be right now, Lawful Good or not.

Posted December 8, 2006 8:59 PM by Greg London

Marilee -

Thanks for the clarification. I must admit to not really knowing enough about grave markers vs. plaques to have been aware that a difference exists (we usually cremate our dead). I learn the most interesting things here.

re: Latin compositions. I always hear the theme music from the Mighty Mouse cartoon when sharing favorite Latin palindrome - Sum summus mus!

Posted December 8, 2006 9:19 PM by Tania

Neil (#40) Thank you so much. I needed a laugh tonight! My former senior director (ex Air Force) and I were talking about books and I told him I like military fiction and technothrillers. He enthusiastically recommended Dale Brown to me as I am an Air Force brat and I assume he felt that I shouldn't be limiting my self to all that Navy stuff of Clancy's.

So I ordered up a bunch of Brown (I read fast so I like to have a couple books in a series ready at hand)from Amazon. I didn't think I'd read the passage you quote - but damn if it wasn't perfect. (especially your mention of the page and a half you skipped - that's exactly how I read Brown and Clancy - skim for plot, skip the lovingly detailed specs of whatever super weapon de jure comes along). I have to admit that I have a number of unread Dale Brown books sitting on the shelf. I think I took a sanity break after the third or fourth one. My willing suspension of disbelief can only stand so much stress.

If you ever do write Sky Angels, I promise to read it.

Posted December 8, 2006 9:52 PM by Dawno

Re The Fountain: Forget the plot--does Hugh Jackman take his shirt off?

Posted December 8, 2006 9:52 PM by TexAnne

Sorry to disappoint you, TexAnne, but at no point is Hugh Jackman shirtless in The Fountain.

Posted December 8, 2006 10:21 PM by Serge

Serge: Pfui and Hrmph. I'll go see it anyway, I suppose, once I'm done with this silly grading. (The official seal I just generated has the motto "J'enseigne, donc je suis," and the central motif is a bootprint. Naturally, it's all surrounded by laurel leaves.)

Posted December 8, 2006 10:27 PM by TexAnne

In #65, Dawno writes:

I didn't think I'd read the passage you quote - but damn if it wasn't perfect. (especially your mention of the page and a half you skipped - that's exactly how I read Brown and Clancy - skim for plot, skip the lovingly detailed specs of whatever super weapon de jure comes along).

Funny, I'm the sort of reader who whizzes through the plot and slows down for the superweapons...

Posted December 8, 2006 11:10 PM by Bill Higgins-- Beam Jockey

P.S. I gave up on Clancy at Rainbow Six, two or three novels after I should have, and am unlikely to start reading Dale Brown.

Posted December 8, 2006 11:32 PM by Bill Higgins-- Beam Jockey

Chris Quinones @61 : I can hum it for you if you're within shouting distance...

That made me laugh; I was thinking we've traced the call, and he's in the house...

The first person to respond to Serge's question (cleek) gave a wikipedia link to a Powerhouse entry; there's a couple of sound links at the end of the article; one to a portion of the “assembly line” theme Serge was thinking of, and another to a portion of the “chase” theme you're describing. I hadn't noticed the first post before I had run off on my own, to track down my scrap of memory.

You're responding to my post (and thanks for checking out the animation). Both themes were familiar, but I never would have been able to attach a name to them, or recognized that they came from the same piece.

Posted December 8, 2006 11:39 PM by Rob Rusick

Alex Cohen @ 25: IMO, one of the qualifications for a neocon is the ability to look at anything showing "that trick never works!" -- and say "but \we'll/ do it \right/" (if they don't ignore the demo completely). "right" is of course defined as whatever half-assed way they want to do it.

Serge @ 67: I thought I recalled him taking his shirt off to apply the sap. I suppose the angle means it doesn't count....

Posted December 9, 2006 12:22 AM by CHip

Since it's an open thread:

Tamora Pierce, an art teacher, and a young student interact in various ways to the mutual gain of all. This has had me smiling for an hour now, after a heart-consuming rotten day.

Posted December 9, 2006 1:57 AM by Bruce Baugh

Re: #66, #67, #68 & #72

Actually, I think Hugh Jackman does take his shirt off. There's a scene where he's giving Rachel Weisz a warm bath, and there's a bit of splashing around in the water as bathing becomes making out.

I think the shirt comes off then, but I wouldn't swear to it.

Oh, and the shirt does definitely come off at the end, as mentioned, but at that point, he's been stabbed. The Jackman torso is shown with a bloody wound, which might affect its visual appeal and pulchritudousness.

Posted December 9, 2006 3:25 AM by Owlmirror

Bill Higgins said (#69):
Funny, I'm the sort of reader who whizzes through the plot and slows down for the superweapons...

The last time I tried to read a Clancy novel (The Bear and the Dragon), I found myself desperately hoping for the war to start, so that he'd stop the horrible, horrible attempts at politics, non-military conversations, and sex scenes. (OK, only one sex scene, but it was really bad writing). Not to mention the tediously silly atemtps to show off his research by constantly referring to certain characters by the Secret Service code names.

And, in fact, things did improve once the war started.

I don't remember the other two Clancy books I read (his first two) being nearly that bad.

Posted December 9, 2006 7:12 AM by Peter Erwin

CHip and Owlmirror... I think you're right about both scenes, but I have this feeling they're not quite the shirt-removal situations that TexAnne was hoping for. Heheheh... Meanwhile, last night, I did see Hugh shirtless on TNT's broadcast of van Helsing. My only excuse is that I was desperate for something, anything, to watch until I was sleepy - a state greatly hastened by that movie. Remember the end when Kate Beckinsale's character is dead and Hugh puts her body on a heap of wood and sets the whole thing on fire? I turned to my wife and said: "Look! A baking sale!"

Posted December 9, 2006 7:14 AM by Serge

Ew, Van Helsing. I'm its target audience incarnate, and I barely made it to the end. I felt so sorry for the people who made it...you can see the bones of a decent movie, but the suits killed it.

Posted December 9, 2006 8:37 AM by TexAnne

You too, eh, TexAnne... I wonder how much the studio's suits were responsible for the van Helsing mess. Steven Sommers, its director, had made the Mummy movies, which were very successful, so I presume that gave him clout enough that the studio would have let him do what he wanted. It's like he forgot everything he had done right with the previous movies. Forget about pacing. Take what you did before and give people more of it. That might explain why it was such a mind-numbing rollercoaster ride. (My wife hated the movie as much as I did, but we have a disagreement over it. I maintain that The League of Extraordinary Gentlemen was better.)

Posted December 9, 2006 8:47 AM by Serge

"Look! A baking sale!"

Now, now. Be nice.
Or the Great Spirit of conditional giving
won't bring you any presents.

Posted December 9, 2006 10:21 AM by Greg London

the Great Spirit of conditional giving won't bring you any presents.

Waugh!!!

Posted December 9, 2006 10:39 AM by Serge

The role of the combat mimeographer was immortalized in Good Morning, Vietnam, with the fannish line, "I live to collate, sir."

Posted December 9, 2006 10:50 AM by Arthur D. Hlavaty

From the annals of Security Theatre:

A DETECTIVE was arrested for allegedly filming up women's skirts with a hidden camera.

The married anti-terrorist officer told police he was working undercover to video al-Qaeda suspects. But back at the station they found his camera had close-ups of bottoms and knickers.

Props for Security Theater:

WASHINGTON, July 18 — Flat-bottomed rescue boats at double the retail price, $68,500 worth of unused dog booties, hundreds of thousands of dollars’ worth of computers that somehow disappeared and a $227 beer brewing kit.

These are just a few of the questionable purchases that Congressional auditors have found by digging through half a year of credit card records from the Homeland Security Department, including records for the months immediately after Hurricanes Katrina and Rita last year.

At least the US guys didn't buy any miniature cameras to film up girls' skirts.

Did they?

Posted December 9, 2006 11:11 AM by James D. Macdonald

Peter Erwin @ 75

The first two Clancy books are better than the rest; I have those, and got rid of the others. (I heard that the Washington reaction to Red Storm Rising was something like 'OMG! We forgot about Iceland!')

Posted December 9, 2006 11:34 AM by P J Evans

Serge @78: I'd suggest the suck in The League of Extraordinary Gentlemen was concentrated in that stunningly awful Venice sequence, whereas van Helsing sucked more uniformly.

Posted December 9, 2006 11:35 AM by Rob Rusick

Well said, Rob... I had a bit of a problem with the Nautilus being able to navigate the canals without getting stuck in mud, let alone being able to turn corners. And let's not talk about the destruction of a whole neighborhood by Nemo's missiles without a single human death. Overall, though, it had good stuff in it. In some ways, it was better than Alan Moore's graphic novel. In some other ways, it was not better. I wish they had kept the novel's Quartermain as a burnt-out man, and the Beauty/Beast relationship between Minna and Hyde.

Posted December 9, 2006 12:04 PM by Serge

Haiku in Latin? This is making me wish my Latin-English dictionary weren't packed away with my Wheeler's. I'm just adept enough at Latin to realize how much I suck at it, but now I desperately want to go write poetry in a foreign language.

(I am not, however, about to start posting my conlang poetry here, despite temptation. I have enough self-awareness to realize that throwing around one's conlang is a step down from "Let me tell you about my character" as clueless geeky behavior goes.)

Posted December 9, 2006 12:13 PM by Fade Manley

"Rep. McKinney Files Articles of Impeachment"

Has this been confirmed anywhere else?

Posted December 9, 2006 12:29 PM by Paul

Van Helsing is one of those movies on my fruitcake* list - i.e., Stuff I Like That Everyone Else Hates. I can't help myself. I'm a sucker for the New Pulp, absurd plotting, over-the-top fx, and all.

I've warmed a bit to LXG, though it remains one of the few films I indulge in griping about how much better the book was - in this case because there was so much cinematic potential with the stuff that was in the comic that got pushed aside. And really, it was a very small amount that it asked me to turn off my brain more than I was willing to, or I'd have really liked it; if nothing else, the production values are stunning. Van Helsing, by contrast, is unpretentious; silly as it is, it didn't get there from starting life as a smart and literate comic.

*Referring, of course, to the much-despised commercial fruitcake, as per the Other Thread.

Posted December 9, 2006 1:40 PM by Dan Layman-Kennedy

The collision between the discussion of Dale Brown, Tom Clancey, and the possibility of Donald Rumsfeld being sued has crystallised a realization in my head:

I thought that what was wrong with the world was that responsibility for the Script had just been handed over to a team consisting of the ghosts of George Orwell and Phil Dick.

However, I now realize that we're not living in a scripted world at all. Instead, we're non-player characters in an adventure game setting created by Tom Clancy and Dale Brown, watching Team America (played by your neighbour's dumb kid who lives in their basement) get its collective ass handed to it by an irate celestial GM who was hoping to run an interesting character-driven session rather than munchkin hack'n'slay, and who is therefore taking it out on the kid.

Certainly if Clancy had ever handed in a novel where the Forces of Good™ were subjected to the kind of hard nosed rules-lawyering we've seen since July 2003, his editors would have felt the need to take him aside for a quiet word ...

Look! Over there! Is that clock melting, yet?

Posted December 9, 2006 1:45 PM by Charlie Stross

Here's the link to the NPR story on PTSD that JC (#39) and Stephan Jones (#48) mention above. This was definitely a "driveway moment" for me. I must have sat silently in my parked car for a good five minutes just listening to it. I'm glad that there are at least a few news outlets in the world that actually believe in journalism still.

Soldiers Say Army Ignores, Punishes Mental Anguish

Posted December 9, 2006 1:51 PM by Joe J

The sargeants interviewed for that piece . . . on one hand, you get the feeling that they're the kind of chaps you'd want leading you in battle.

One the other: What total fucking self-brainwashed macho-bureaucratic pricks.

Posted December 9, 2006 2:01 PM by Stefan Jones

Van Helsing, by contrast, is unpretentious; silly as it is, it didn't get there from starting life as a smart and literate comic.

Good point, Dan. But Sommers's Mummy movies were unpretentious too and they were fun, in a leave-your-brain-at-the-front-desk way. My own problem with van Helsing is that there was way too much stuff being thrown at us. Think of the action-packed scene at the beginning of Raiders of the Lost Ark and maintain the same pace to the movie's very end. Numbing. For me anyway.

Back to LXG, what did you think of the 2nd graphic novel, with its background of the War of the World? It left me unsatisfied. Not sure why.

Posted December 9, 2006 2:08 PM by Serge

#87 from the impeachment link:

This manipulation of intelligence was done, the charge continues, “with the intent to misinform the people and their representatives in Congress in order to gain their support for invading Iraq, denying both the people and their representatives in Congress the right to make an informed choice.”

Yaw!

Posted December 9, 2006 2:17 PM by Greg London

#84 I'd suggest the suck in The League of Extraordinary Gentlemen was concentrated in that stunningly awful Venice sequence, whereas van Helsing sucked more uniformly.

They're playing "Constantine" (Keaneu Reeves) on TV now, and I've seen it at least three times. Everytime I watch it, I like it more. Apparently it bombed at the box office though, which I don't understand. I mean, Constantine seems better than some of the big money makers in the same genre. Though I might be missing something.

Posted December 9, 2006 2:21 PM by Greg London

Serge @85: [..] I had a bit of a problem with the Nautilus being able to navigate the canals without getting stuck in mud, let alone being able to turn corners.

My jaw dropped when it even fit in a canal. In the scene where we first see the Nautilis, it's about the size of the Titanic. Then there's that ridiculously large “auto-mobile” (just the sort of thing you would carry around in a submarine, on the off chance it might be useful), racing along wide, lengthy, and unpopulated streets; it would seem that Venice would have to be as large as Manhattan for the time it took for the car to reach its destination. I don't get why firing a missle in the center of the city was going to stop the rest of the submerged bombs from going off, or why they didn't just all go off at once (or at least, finish detonating in the time it took for the car to reach its destination).

But that sequence aside, I thought the rest of the movie hung together fairly well.

Posted December 9, 2006 2:41 PM by Rob Rusick

Happy Hogswatch! Sky One in the UK has produced a live action version of Terry Pratchett's "Hogfather". There's a promo site at http://www.skyone.co.uk/hogfather/ with links to video clips from the show and "making of" clips.
It looks really coooool.

Posted December 9, 2006 3:55 PM by Zarquon

Paul #87: Google News gives several hits from the likes of the Boston Globe. I believe she did introduce such a bill. Unfortunately it will die a-borning as Pelosi will have nothing to do with it and McKinney has even less credibility than Bush himself.

Posted December 9, 2006 4:05 PM by Lila

Could somebody please remind me of the name and address of the excellent fiction blog that has been linked to many times from this very site and the comments thereto? I followed links and always liked it, now I can't remember where it is and it's killing me...

Aha! "Hitherby Dragons" is what it's called. Nemmine, thanks!

Posted December 9, 2006 4:11 PM by Jeremy Osner

The Joe Bob Briggs website is at http://www.joebobbriggs.com/

It's got a ton of his columns - the drive-in movie reviews (alphabetically), Vegas guy, the John Bloom work, and many other Joe Bob type things.

The last time I remember seeing Joe Bob televised was God Talk, on the Craig Kilbourn version of the Daily Show. Sadly, I have found no clips. God Talk was easily the funniest bit from that era of the Daily Show.

Posted December 9, 2006 4:17 PM by Sharon M

Some people deserve the fans they've got.

http://blogs.news-journalonline.com/247/2006/12/why_we_love_the_fireflyserenit.html

(This may also be an argument for free travel between the US and Canada?)

Posted December 9, 2006 5:01 PM by JESR

Anybody know anything about the EPA closing their files and selling the furniture?

Is this really about Bush blatantly serving his dark masters by destroying the EPA? Even he wouldn't be that obvious, would he?

Posted December 9, 2006 5:33 PM by NelC

#95: I thought the Venice thing was the most fun in "League." Completely absurd, like something from a Georges Méliès fantasy film. The cream-coloured Rococo submarine, the out-of time auto, and all the buildings falling down like packs of cards.

I also watched the movie looking forward to the director and cast trashing Sean Connery on the DVD commentary, but didn't get so much of that.

Posted December 9, 2006 5:59 PM by Jack Ruttan

Tania, #64, the plaque is for a Memorial Wall. A grave marker is usually made of white or gray stone or concrete (I've seen brown in the Confederate cemetary close to my condo, though). The older ones can be very big and ornate, and in national veteran's cemetaries (like Arlington National) some folks still get fancier grave markers (my mother is buried in the Officer's Headstone section; my father will join her there) but most people just get plain markers with personal info and the religious symbol on it.

Paul, #87, indeed McKinney filed for impeachment, but it's not going anywhere. (scroll down to third item)

Posted December 9, 2006 6:41 PM by Marilee

JESR @100: I went to YouTube a while back and looked for "God Stuff" and found thirty segments. Alas, they're not there now (at least, not under that name), victims of the Comedy Central purge. As a consolation prize, here's The Farting Preacher, for sophomoric laffs.

By the way, I hope 2007 is the year I finally buy the CD with Spike Jones doing "The Powerhouse." I keep seeing it in the store, and not getting it.

Posted December 9, 2006 10:29 PM by Kip W

Very sorry to hear about George William Swift Trow, who I knew only from National Lampoon, where he was indeed good.

Posted December 9, 2006 10:30 PM by Kip W

#101: Ignorance is Strength

Posted December 10, 2006 12:28 AM by Stefan Jones

Sharon M @ 99... Thanhks for the link to Joe Bob Briggs's site.

Posted December 10, 2006 9:02 AM by Serge

Greg London @ 94... They're playing "Constantine" (Keaneu Reeves) on TV now, and I've seen it at least three times. Everytime I watch it, I like it more.

I think I travelled the same road with 1980's Flash Gordon. From being thought of as a piece of bleep, it has become one of my Guilty Pleasures. Unfortunately, my wife went the other way, from liking it to threatening divorce if I put the DVD on if she's around. Okay, I made the divorce bit up. But I can't watch it when she's around. The situation is the same with another of my Guilty Pleasure, 1976's At The Earth's Core even though it has everything a person could ask for. It's got Doug McClure. And Caroline Munro. Peter Cushing as a scientist who makes a bow using his suspenders. Special effects that give cheese a bad name. Dinosaurs from the guy-in-a-rubbersuit school of thought. What is there not to like?

Posted December 10, 2006 9:14 AM by Serge

Serge, I like the second volume of League very much, though I also appreciate that it went a little dark and gritty for a lot of people's taste.

Constantine has grown on me too. Once I got over wanting it to be Hellblazer (and wishing for James Marsters), it's a perfectly decent occult yarn, and true in many ways to the spirit of the earlier comics. (I'd still like to visit the universe where they actually made a movie out of Dangerous Habits, though.)

Posted December 10, 2006 11:17 AM by Dan Layman-Kennedy

Dan... I probably should re-read the second LXG novel. When I first came across it, something felt different, not necessarily in the story itself. Maybe it was the lack of a lettercol where people got into the spirit of the whole thing and wrote letters in a quaint style. Or maybe... The first novel had a pastiche of pulp stories where Quartermain met John Carter and Randolph Carter and Wells's Time Traveller and even the Hounds of Tindalos. The second novel's extra feature was more like a catalogue of all kinds of literary references. Yeah, I guess I should have focused on the story itself.

Posted December 10, 2006 11:26 AM by Serge

Christmas time is here
Happiness and cheer
Fun for all that children call
Their favorite time of the year

Snowflakes in the air
Carols everywhere
Olden times and ancient rhymes
Of love and dreams to share

Sleigh bells in the air
Beauty everywhere
Yuletide by the fireside
And joyful memories there

Christmas time is here
We'll be drawing near
Oh, that we could always see
Such spirit through the year
Oh, that we could always see
Such spirit through the year...

(from 1965's Charlie Brown Christmas Special)

Posted December 10, 2006 11:49 AM by Serge

I note that Pinochet is dead.

I firmly believe that no one, and no crime, is unforgiveable, but that was a belief he sore tried in me. As Cordelia Naismith said, "I'll have to leave that to the Infinite. You exceed my capacity."

Posted December 10, 2006 1:51 PM by abi

Pinochet is dead, abi? Good riddance.

Posted December 10, 2006 2:07 PM by Serge

Abi #112: The sad thing is that he was not in prison when he died.

Posted December 10, 2006 2:46 PM by Fragano Ledgister

Abi @ 112: I know the feeling.

This is more for Teresa, but here's an interesting article about how LDS church leaders lent verbal support to Pinochet's regime. I remember being quite tweaked when I first discovered it myself, but hearing that your erstwhile church leaders considered his coup "an act that served the purposes of the Lord" is more than a little disturbing.

Posted December 10, 2006 2:59 PM by PixelFish

The sad thing is that he was not in prison when he died.

Neither was Marechal Petain, after France's liberation.

Posted December 10, 2006 3:46 PM by Serge

Any bets on whether Dubya goes to the funeral and makes noises about what a great patriot (and friend of Amurka) he was?

Posted December 10, 2006 5:04 PM by Kip W

Kip, 117: I thought it was traditional for the second banana to go to those thi--oh, wait.

Posted December 10, 2006 5:33 PM by TexAnne

I keep reading that Particle as "a thousand or so oracular ducks." I like the image, but it does strange things to my brain.

--Mary Aileen

Posted December 10, 2006 6:57 PM by Mary Aileen Buss

Kip, I heard on the news that there won't be a state funeral, so the opportunity for Georgie to wax eloquent (snurk) will be limited.

Posted December 10, 2006 8:04 PM by NelC

Mary Eileen Buss #119:

Your comment led me to do this:

we go for learning to the newest source
the oracle of a thousand quacking fowl
the ducks who speak wiser than any owl
and congregate on every watercourse
the wisest monk hiding beneath his cowl
or savvy boy scout schooled by baden-powell
has no more sense that ordinary horse
the birds though overwhelm the sense
give no option to us but now to hearken
to their wise redes given in loudest voice
we crowd up to the strong barrier fence
the sky above is clearly bound to darken
but still we find we've lost all power of choice

Posted December 10, 2006 8:30 PM by Fragano Ledgister

Fragano @121:

Hey, I'm a muse! Cool!

--Mary Aileen

Posted December 10, 2006 8:58 PM by Mary Aileen Buss

Somewhere around here, I have a videocassette of Daily Show God Squad episodes. I got it as an extra when I subscribed to The Door, one of America's truly great theological magazines. Joe Bob had a Bible study column in there for quite a few years, and it was worth the price of the subscription. Actually, going to the website to get the url, I see that he's listed as Vaguely Associate Editor, which is probably a good thing.

I'll see if I can dig the video up, and I'll send it out to anyone who wants it.

Posted December 10, 2006 9:14 PM by Juli Thompson

You know what's the problem with you people ? You're making procrastination far too enjoyable. I'm supposed to be writing bad poetry to inflict on an incredulous world, damn it ! Not thinking about the notable absence of books in houses, and what it tells us of those inhabiting them, the use of respectability in class-warfare and how the advent of low cost computers and printers have generated a shame and fear of their own handwriting in loads of the lower-middle class people around me (what used to be only a fear of sounding right has expanded to fear of not actually looking right), the possible use of carrots in fruitcakes (and why in hell I haven't made a carrot cake in such a long time), stories about the Monthly Tsar and why the hell I'm reminded of Tristan Tzara every time I read the word "cédrat"...

Bless you.

Been kept wondering by the japanese translation, in a "Am I not reading enough in the english sentences, or am I reading too much in the japanese ones ?" way.

Posted December 10, 2006 9:31 PM by MD²

Hey Teresa, There's a comprehensive post about Claude Degler on metafilter, in which you are (not surprisingly) name-checked and linked:

http://www.metafilter.com/mefi/56844

Posted December 10, 2006 9:43 PM by Robert L

Regarding the Oracular Decks Particle, I just want to point out that I found out about the Hello Kitty tarot two years ago.

This is not so much to boast as to marvel that I uncovered anything weird on the Internets before TNH did.

Posted December 10, 2006 10:06 PM by Dan Layman-Kennedy

I accidentally read the particle heading "fake blurbs" as "fake burbs"
and this has me envisioning some sort of vast Potemkin village kind of setup.

Posted December 10, 2006 10:46 PM by Erik Nelson

Actually, a Potemkin Suburb would be terribly useful for decoying in firms or institutions needing lots of educated middle-class workers. Imagine their terrible disappointment when the plasterboard comes down and they see a housing estate behind it...

Posted December 10, 2006 11:01 PM by Sam Kelly

I travelled the same road with 1980's Flash Gordon

Is that the one with Queen doing the whole soundtrack?

I love you, Flash, but we only have (N) minutes to save the Earth.

Nag, nag, nag.

Yeah, that was pretty cool.

Posted December 10, 2006 11:04 PM by Greg London

George won't go to Pinochet's funeral. But it will be interesting to see whether Cheney goes, and if not Cheney, who. I think they won't want to risk Cheney but I suspect he's a Pinochet fan -- only in the political sense, of course.

(Look, it's Advent, getting on towards Christmas, Peace on earth to men and women of goodwill; I'm trying to be nice.)

Posted December 10, 2006 11:15 PM by Lizzy L

#67 At no point is Hugh Jackman shirtless in The Fountain

No, as noted later in the thread there is a long kissy bathtub scene whose entire purpose seems to have been to have a long loving look at wet shirtless Hugh.

The Fountain is A Big Serious Allegory; the only way it could be less subtle is if the main characters had names like Loving Man Blinded by Own Ambition and Woman Of Intuition. Stirring violins are unrelenting in telling us "here's a Poignant Important Moment; here's another". Also there is lots and lots of crying in close-up, which drives me bats because it makes me cry involuntarily even if I'm totally unmoved.

I agree that it could have been good with a few changes; as-is, it's tolerable only because Jackman and Weiss (and yay Ellen Burstyn!) are very watchable. If you love surreal images, it might be worth seeing on the big screen, but otherwise not.

Posted December 10, 2006 11:19 PM by Anne

Teresa, note that there is an Earth Destruction Advisory page (with earth destruction status alert button.) I believe there might also be a Firefox extension for it, so that you can have your browser automatically inform you if the Earth has been destroyed.

Posted December 11, 2006 2:20 AM by Clifton Royston

You can also sign up to a mailing list, which will send you an email as soon as the Earth's destruction has been confirmed.

Yes, the internet will still be working; just at a slightly higher overall latency rate.

Posted December 11, 2006 5:00 AM by ajay

The Daily Show God Squad episodes, Juli? I might be tempted to take you up on the offer. I always got a big laugh out of the segment's opening montages, especially those that'd have Marvel Comics's Thor pop in, and also HellBoy. Speaking of the latter, a couple of years ago, I drove thru a small town in southern Arizona where one half of the theater's marquee advertised HellBoy, and the other half The Passion of the Christ. Really. One last thing... Did the comic-book ever explain why HellBoy has such a thing about cats that a lovecraftian horror beats the crap out of him in a New York subway station because he's got a box filled with kittens to protect?

Posted December 11, 2006 6:12 AM by Serge

Yes, Greg, 1980's Flash Gordon is the one with Queen doing the whole soundtrack. ("Hi! I'm Flash Gordon, quarterback for the New York Jets!")

Posted December 11, 2006 6:14 AM by Serge

Anne, about Ellen Burstyn's presence in The Fountain, yay indeed! I loved her in 1980's Resurrection, the ending of which had me with a big lump in my throat. And did you see her in last year's TV show The Book of Daniel? It was a great show about loving each other, which is a very Christian thing, but not enough for certain religious people who I understand managed to quickly get it cancelled. We can't have Aidan Quinn's character of a priest who loves his homosexual son, or have Jesus fake snoring when Quinn asks His opinion about his upcoming sermon.

Posted December 11, 2006 6:22 AM by Serge

Mary Aileen Buss #122: You're welcome.

Posted December 11, 2006 8:14 AM by Fragano Ledgister

Serge, #134: HB's love of cats was invented for the movie.

Posted December 11, 2006 9:04 AM by TexAnne

Thanks, TexAnne... I wonder if del Toro ever explained where that came from. Meanwhile, he is working on a sequel that I understand will come out in 2008. Until then, he has Pan's Labyrinth, out soon. That looks interesting, visually anyway. Hmmm... Those are the same words I used about The Fountain. My fingers are firmly crossed.

Posted December 11, 2006 9:14 AM by Serge