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Back in November 2006, The Uselessness of Airleaf Publishing generated a nice chewy comment thread, which flourished, decayed, and fell silent. Then, a week ago, Epacris spotted comment spam in that thread, and posted a message saying so. Niall McAuley got in while the spam was still comment #52 and posted:
A spammer writes: We will appreciate if you will use the following information to link us back from your web siteAfter that, they were off and running. To quote some incidental bits:I hope no-one on ML minds, but I’ve been running a Zombies simulation on a 2 Mqbit SQUID using the comment threads here as modelling data. This is not a Vingefied AI system with trapped, sentient copies of the contributors here: the agents modelled are guaranteed soulless empty software shells.
I’d just like to note that when I fed comment #52 above into the system, the Zombie Jim Macdonald said “No”.
I for one welcome our artifically intelligent/undead overlords. ::: Why did I just get an email from myself, containing a sonnet that scans and rhymes perfectly, but has no artistic interest whatsoever? ::: If I understand this correctly, Zkathryn necessarily knows everything Kathryn knows, but has no awareness of that knowledge. Zkathryn claims not to be a p-zombie, but that’s exactly what a p-zombie would claim, isn’t it? I mean, a p-zombie would need consciousness in order to make truth claims about its nature, and if it had consciousness, it would not be a p-zombie. “I am a p-zombie” is always a false statement. ::: People, can we not stereotype about zombies based on misrepresentations in really atrocious, campy movies? ::: In California, the workplace guide set (employment law, minimum wage, existential threats) includes the standard zombie warning chart. ::: The preferred weapon for personal anti-zombie defense is the chainsaw. For a horrifying example of what happens when you don’t have a fully-fueled chainsaw handy, see The Black Cauldron by Lloyd Alexander. ::: HA! Has anyone seen this? Bush has even pissed off the Mayan spirit guides. … Sorry, wrong thread. ::: “My Favorite Things” ::: Kathryn, it’s twelve steps for the walking dead, but only maybe three for the living. ::: I Am Not A Politically-aware, Angry Mayan Spirit Guide (Abbreviated, for your convenience, as IANAPAAMSG…) ::: “Rezume” ::: I think that we need to stop trying to define liches and revenants, and start trying to describe them. ::: I can feel a post coming on titled Trauma And You… ::: IANAPAAMSG either, but I’m pretty sure it should be Yma Sumac as the zombie-summoning Mayan Spirit Guide, and Julie Andrews as the singing, chainsaw-wielding heroine who saves the day, because I just can’t imagine Yma Sumac doing the patter songs. ::: Me, I’d wonder about the utility of inducing zombies to follow me through any sort of heavy manufacturing environment; I can read the safety signs and they can’t, after all. A rolling mill would be nearly ideal. ::: Well, philosophical zombies like to start conversations about themselves any chance we get. Such conversations are often diverted into discussions about chainsaw sharpening, but this is clearly just a diversionary tactic: those with present qualia conspiring to confuse those of us whose qualia are MIA. ::: from “William Shakespeare’s Zombies” ::: The ritual deployment of “This is just to say” ::: “How will I eat thee? Let me count the ways” ::: “The Second Coming” ::: “Resume” ::: “When, running from the zombies’ prying eyes/I all alone beweep my outcast state” ::: It is a truth universally acknowledged that a single man in possession of a good fortune must be in want of brains. ::: Ok, now I’m officially creeped-out. Look: a zombie teddy bear ::: OH MY GOD THAT’S THE CUTEST AND I WANT IT. ::: Aw! His intestines are removable! I love him! ::: The Creature was part human, part livestock, and part chemistry set. I suppose he was Bavarian in the sense that BMWs are Bavarian…Happy Friday.
I am trapped in a Chinese Room with an endless stream of copy-edited manuscripts coming through the input slot; I defy you to prove that I am sentient.
ROFLMAO just reading the quotes, never mind the actual posts (again).
It is my understanding that one of the two movies comprising soon-to-be-released Grindhouse involves zombies. They don't seem to have cerebral leanings, as the main non-zombie character is a woman who loses a leg to a zombie and then replaces the missing limb with a nasty-looking rifle.
Dr. Frederick Frankenstein: Igor, would you mind telling me whose brain I did put in?
Igor: And you won't be angry?
Dr. Frederick Frankenstein: I will NOT be angry.
Igor: Abby someone.
Dr. Frederick Frankenstein: Abby someone. Abby who?
Igor: Abby Normal.
Dr. Frederick Frankenstein: Abby Normal?
Igor: I'm almost sure that was the name.
Dr. Frederick Frankenstein: Are you saying that I put an abnormal brain into a seven and a half foot long, fifty-four inch wide GORILLA?
[shakes and grabs him]
Dr. Frederick Frankenstein: IS THAT WHAT YOU'RE TELLING ME?
An efflorescence of zombies
Just be glad it wasn't a deliquescence. Messy.
During this very quiet day, since most of the staff have left due to the ice and snow, I've been able to scavenge a few quiet moments to read this thread. And laugh hysterically. :)
Thank you all for a fantastic Friday!
(writing from the hallowed (actually, mostly just empty) halls of social services, only two blocks away from Publish America...)
Charles Stross:
"I am trapped in a Chinese Room with an endless stream of copy-edited manuscripts coming through the input slot; I defy you to prove that I am sentient."Sure thing, Charlie. I just spent the better part of a work week decopyediting a badly copyedited manuscript. I can test your sentience.
Please answer or address the following queries:
1. You say this character has brown hair and blue eyes. People with brown hair never have blue eyes. Change?2. (Book set in Ancient Greece) Query democracy: This seems awfully modern. Would they have had that word?
3. You've got a reference here to General Cornwallis. This seems awfully obscure. Replace him with another Revolutionary-War British general who's better known to U.S. readers?
4a. Your character Livia Plurabella has a husband named Marcus Plurabellus. This seems inconsistent. Change?
4b. When she's operating in this alternate timeline, the trader Dawn Stone is known as Aurora Petra. However, the Solter family's mother and daughter, Melissa and Amelia, do not change their names. This seems inconsistent. Change?
5. I have made the following changes to avoid the overuse of the word "luminous" to describe night-viewed astronomical objects. Confirm?
6. (In a near-future SF novel) Re: "He had a stack of paper books on his windowsill." Change "paper" to "paperback"?
7. I don't think communications systems on board U.S. Navy destroyers can work the way you describe. I have queried all instances where such communication occurs.
8. (In a rotating circular space station) See changes on pages [list of thirty-odd nonsequential pages]. There was a series of errors where characters used "up" and "down" to describe inward and outward movements along the ship's equatorial plane.
9. I've noticed you use a great many difficult or unfamiliar words and phrases in your writing. I have taken the liberty of substituting shorter, simpler terms. I think you'll find it an improvement.
10. Shouldn't he be ordering his meal from the lunchroom dispensers by speaking his order out loud? That's how they do it in other science fiction.
...decopyediting. There's a word I would have preferred was never invented.
I particularly like #1. It would explain a lot about my mother.
Me too, Tina. I suppose we could call it "a bus ticket to Eraser Crumb City," but that would get unwieldy.
Teresa, I got to your point #9 before I began having flashbacks.
(I spent a chunk of yesterday evening trying to calm down a first-time-round-the-block author who's worried about the edits on his first book. It's a technical "For Dummies" type title about a web development thing that this guy is an expert on. He began to get a little worried when the sub-editor he'd been handed over to queried whether any readers would have heard of this "YouTube" thing ... and then asked what Linux was.)
In other news, the policeman's beard is still half-constructed.
Does spending too much time decopyediting leave you with a bad stetter?
Teresa, you understand that I now must request you write a book with that title. "Decopyediting: A Bus Ticket to Eraser Crumb City" is already a best-seller in the alternate universe in my head where you've fulfilled said request.
Alternately, I'd settle for a post with that title and more examples, sometime when you, haha, have some free time and energy.
Charlie: Thank you for waiting to post that until I was done drinking this cup of coffee, because cleaning nose-spewed coffee off my monitor is difficult.
Charlie: "He began to get a little worried when the sub-editor he'd been handed over to queried whether any readers would have heard of this "YouTube" thing ... and then asked what Linux was."
Oh my very word. In his place, I'd have been more than a little worried.
The point where my blood ran cold on this copyedit wasn't when I realized the c'ed had randomly deleted and inserted commas all over an award-winning author's prose. It was when I noticed that she was marking text ital and nonital. In all my years in the printing and publishing trades, that's a first.
Tina, you'd want to see the highlights of a blistering twenty-plus-page memorandum on the misdeeds and derelictions in the copyedit of James White's The Galactic Gourmet?
I can't discuss the time I got angriest over a bad copyedit. The author reads Making Light, and still goes into instant full-scale depression mode when the subject comes up. Bad copyedits do real damage.
nonital
Gulp. Oh my word.
(Declaration: my ability to read proofreader's marks is eccentric and thoroughly wrecked by having initially learned on British proofreader's marks (which aren't the same), but even so ...)
All I have to put up with is my copy editor accepting the use of British spellings and usage, but querying whether American readers would understand "dreicht". Then correcting my British usage correctly. It's amazing how a woman I've never met can give me primary school flash-backs ...
Nonital sounds like a drug. I'm not sure what it would treat, but I'm sure someone here will tell me.
Teresa: Maybe I'm weird, but yes? I'm not likely to ever be a professional editor, but I actually do like the editing process, including fact-checking (though I sometimes get lazy about that in my own stuff, I admit). Seeing the bad stuff is an incredibly good learning tool, quite aside from other reasons to be interested.
But if it would just tick you off to remember the worst examples, certainly, I'd understand not wanting to touch the subject. I thought you might have some 'look back and laugh' types of things you could share, though, and would love to read them if so, and I really do doubt I'm alone. If for no other reason than your writing style and commentary are engaging no matter what you're writing about.
Spam spotting makes us talk about zombies. Zombies make us talk about copyediting. But Buffy makes us talk about Buffy. What does all this mean?
ethan @20: It means y'all are my kind of people.
I defy you to prove that I am sentient
To quote Samuel Jackson Johnson: "I refute it thus" whereupon the great sentient philosopher warrior put a cap in his arse.
Afterward, he was overheard shouting, "I have had it with these m8therf9cking sentients's on this m1therf2cking thread!"
What -do- you use to indicate unitalicization?
I don't know whether I'd want to read a whole book of bad copyediting examples, but an essay in a book with that title - it's a wonderful title! - would be good.
Talking in public about bad copyedits. Let me think about this.
Meanwhile:
ital = italics
rom = Roman (non-italicized text)
It's one of the first things you learn in text markup, and it's universal. Except for this copyeditor.
#13: So that's where all the internet bubble headhunters went. Not real estate. Copyediting.
Jon at 23:
The usual marginal note to turn text that is already set in italic back into notmal text would be "Rom" (meaning Roman text). You would also underline the text to be set in Roman text.
Hmm. You wouldn't care for "<i>"- and "</i>"-style markup tags..?
I'm glad this thread only appeared today, and not yesterday, when I was still slogging through copyedits on The Next Book. But I did think of Teresa and that chapter in Making Book when I hit the first of the instructions from editor to line-editor and proofreader about please to be leaving the British English alone, it's *supposed* to be that way. :-)
"...I defy you to prove that I am sentient."
What's in it for us?
This is Just To Say
I will post a
comment
that is just
a sentence
in which
there is no content
nothing
but line breaks
reminding
without me needing
to look
up poems
8. (In a rotating circular space station) See changes on pages [list of thirty-odd nonsequential pages]. There was a series of errors where characters used "up" and "down" to describe inward and outward movements along the ship's equatorial plane.
I'm not exactly sure why that particular one makes me shudder the most, but somehow it does.
Joel @ 28, while some publishers have copyeditors do XML markup on manuscripts, prior to formatting, and others request copyeditors edit onscreen, using MS Word's Track Changes feature, most publishers who adhere to the traditions of paper copyediting prefer that the traditional marks be used.
When I worked at the Textbook Mills, many of our copyeditors also did XML markup, either on paper, or in the electronic files (depending on the ms; a small number of our authors were incapapable of preparing a manuscript with a word-processor, and sent files to be printed and pasted into patch manuscripts. I still shudder thinking about some of those.)
Traditionally, markup and copyediting were different steps in the process: a copyeditor would edit the MS, the author would receive the marked-up MS, and deploy his or her STET stamp, muttering imprecations and dealing with queries, someone at the publisher would key in the changes and produce a fresh MS, which someone else would mark up for typesetting.
Or something. I've only worked on one MS that had to be marked-up this way, so I'm mostly working from tales told by editors older than me.
A number of the best copyeditors I know maintain that they don't work nearly as effectively onscreen, and prefer to use traditional markup on paper. They know the traditional symbols, you see, and would get tremendously muddled if they had to use new symbols. And the traditional symbols work.
Unless your copyeditor has never looked at a single book on the subject of copyediting, I suppose.
Isn't Rezume the name of the AI/meme in John Barnes books, notably mentioned in The Sky So Big and Black? The ones where The One True takes over minds?
SKapusniak at @32: I think the shudderworthiness is because that one's not just ignorance, but *wilful* ignorance. Thirty pages' worth, and it never occurred to this copy editor that there might be a reason for the terminology?
Teresa wrote -
Talking in public about bad copyedits. Let me think about this.
Meanwhile:
ital = italics
rom = Roman (non-italicized text)
It's one of the first things you learn in text markup, and it's universal. Except for this copyeditor.
Note that this is not completely true in the tabletop gaming industry, which has different standards (since most of the original designers were not originally from the book industry, and some weren't even graphic designers before someone set them down in front of Pagemaker and said "start laying out copy").
A lot of companies have internal processes for copy that are only loosely related to that in other industries (those that are large enough to hire freelancers at all). Partly because they have evolved semi-independently, partly because of differing needs.
Most of the larger companies have a style guide for layout, but it often resembles HTML markup more than traditional book markup - [i] to italicize a paragraph, [n] to set back to normal text, etc. (this is not true of all companies, and each has their own variation - Check Your Style Guide).
There's also pretty wide variation in what is expected of authors in terms of layout markup - some companies just want to know what is header, what is body, and what is specially coded, and the layout dude(ette) will handle determining which header level is which, others expect the writer to do quite a bit of the layout markup (one company that will remain nameless essentially wanted all layout code - headers, TOC entries, marks for "include in index", bold and italics for words called out (rather than just bolding the word), etc. - entered by the author. My internal monologue ran something along the lines of wanting double my normal word rate, if I was also doing the layout person's work as well (that project ended up falling through, alas).
Of course, we are such a small (and specialized) branch of the publishing industry as a whole that this is not - at all - a reflection on the greater reality of copyediting. But it is something for folks who might want to do game writing or copy editing (why?!? Do you love ramen so much?!?) to keep in mind.
#10 Teresa -- no sign of intelligent life there. If this were a Turing test, I'd say the manuscript was edited by badly-written software ....
:)
Teresa's examples lead me to wonder where copyeditors come from. I mean, shouldn't they be given some kind of test or something to show they're qualified? Or am I being totally naive and idealistic?
#34, Scorpio:
Isn't Rezume the name of the AI/meme in John Barnes books
That's "Resuna", I'm pretty sure.
One company that will remain nameless essentially wanted all layout code - headers, TOC entries, marks for "include in index", bold and italics for words called out (rather than just bolding the word), etc. - entered by the author.
Scott, #36, I recall that Steve Jackson Games went through a period where they insisted that the volunteer playtesters mark up all their suggestions for amended or additional text in just that way (Quark tags, I think). I don't hesitate to mention their name because they gave up the idea quickly and quietly.
#41:
Shudder . . . last year, I tossed away the 5.25" floppy disks that had my Quark-format manuscript for "GURPS Uplift."
They use much saner formats now.
I think all those queries get the same answer: Stet.
I once wrote a short-short where the same ritual sentence appeared time and again (and I use those words advisedly), but in a different tense each time to indicate the time distortions happening around the main character. The English teacher (who, oddly enough, was not a native speaker of English herself) edited them all into the same tense.
Come to think of it, the character was called The Zombie. Full circle!
Xopher @ 43: As in "-- All you Zombies --"?
No, not quite. The Zombie was the agent of the destruction of the universe. Nihilistic teen-angst bullshit, but the shifting tense wasn't one of its flaws.
Teresa # 16: Perhaps that wasn't a reference to the text, but to Rastafarian food laws -- that is to say the distinction between 'ital' (natural and unsalted) and 'non-ital' (processed and containing salt). As Rastas said in the days of my youth which are forgotten 'Ital is vital'.
Jon #23: Frank Sinatra singing 'Mrs Robinson'.
Scorpio #34: That's Resuna.
#10 -- Heh. In Roman times, almost all female names were male names with an 'a' -- Claudius/Claudia, Julius/Julia etc. But Aurora was a Roman goddess, and anyone with a dictionary could get that.
Typical. The publishing thread turns into a zombie discussion. TNH starts a new thread specifically about zombies and it turns into a publishing thread.
This is because just as zombies in real life stagger and wander from side to side, zombies on websites stagger and wander from topic to topic.
Agatha's early success at reanimation.
Ethan @ 20
You talked about Buffy so consistently, intelligently etc., that I got curious, decided to rethink my kneejerk judgement from ten years ago (vampires? Funny instead of Gothy? Give me a break!), and nudged a roomie to hook me up with the first season. Just did the opening two parter as a break before finishing my last final for the quarter and what I have to say in response is brief.
I hate you all.
And that's before they really get their act together. It gets better.
anaea #53: Neener neener. We win! Weirdly, that seems to be going around--two of my friends recently started watching season 1 and shuffled (non-zombie like) up to me to mumble "you were right."
ajay & Xopher 50-51: As I've mentioned before, Romero zombies have a vague recollection of things they did when alive, but not why they did them or exactly how they did them. Seems Making Light zombies know they're supposed to be talking about copyediting, but not why or on what thread.
Perhaps instead of an efflorescence of zombies we should speak of a deliquescence of zombies. Or, perhaps, we should focus on their dining habits.
Gurer'f abguvat fb zhpu znxrf guvf n oevtug ubhe
naq tvirf fbzr zrnavat gb gur qeno Znepu qnlf
(abg gb zragvba vafcvevat zr hagb gurfr ynlf)
nf frrvat mbzovrf va gurve shyyrfg sybjre.
Fheryl gurfr orvatf, jvgu gurve ubeevsvp cbjre
jvyy pnhfr hf gb syrr fpernzvat sebz gur jnlf;
gur oenvaf ner fheryl sbesrvg bs ur jub fgenlf
vagb gur ynvef jurer yhex gurfr orvatf qbhe.
Ohg, fvapr guvf vf n fbaarg, abg n onyynq
jr zvtug jbaqre ng jung ryfr gurfr orvatf rng,
jurgure gurl yvxr oenvaf fnygrq be hafnygrq,
jurgure rnpu zrny'f nppbzcnavrq ol n terra fnynq,
naq jurgure mbzovrf rng zrffvyl be ner arng;
abg gb zragvba jurgure gurve qevaxf ner znygrq.
jennie@33: "A number of the best copyeditors I know maintain that they don't work nearly as effectively onscreen, and prefer to use traditional markup on paper."
When I edit my own stuff or do a pass on a friends' stuff, I invariably print it out and mark it on paper unless it's under 1000 words (and sometimes even then), and I spent 5 years working with SGML and XML markup (and its parsing from one or the other to HTML) in the online publishing field, and 2 years typesetting educational books with TeX. Professionally. Not mentioning miscellaneous other web experience, text- and data-processing programming, and similar things which have been my job over time.
Or, put another way: I have spent the majority of my adult life working in the field of automated text-processing, text-parsing, and markup, and I find text editing software to be the most useful invention EVAR for any kind of editing (other than coffee), but somehow, I would still rather print 300+ pages on paper and go through it manually when it comes to figuring out what the changes should be.
I have no explanation for this.
Half a league, half a league,
Half a league onward,
Out of the Valley of Death
Lurched the Six Hundred.
"Sharpen your stakes, my lass!
Aim for their hearts!" he said.
Out of the Valley of Death
Lurched the Six Hundred.
"Stake them straight through the heart!"
Was the brave girl dismayed?
Not though the Slayer knew
Someone had blundered;
Hers not to make reply,
Hers not to reason why,
Hers but to do or die.
Out of the Valley of Death
Lurched the Six Hundred.
Zombies to right of her,
Zombies to left of her,
Zombies in front of her
Ate brains and chundered;
Clutched at with rotting hands,
Boldly she took a stand
Against Six Hundred.
Brandished her stakes mid-air,
Kicking ass here and there
Wondering the hell where
Her Watcher studied;
Didn't that stupid git
Know that a zombie kit
Needed more chainsaws?
Still she fought on, unbit
By rotting jaws;
Zombie crud in her hair,
Bruised but unbloodied.
Zombies to right of her,
Zombies to left of her,
Zombies behind her:
"Bugger this for a lark!"
Rain flashed and thundered
O'er the desert park.
She ran back for an axe
To chop zombie heads with whacks;
No more live brains as snacks
For the Six Hundred.
Zombie confetti stained
The sand; good thing it rained
Into the Valley of Death.
"Looks like gazpacho."
The Slayer caught her breath
And fired her Watcher.
Tina in #19: Nonital is prescribed to those suffering from inner-ear damage and/or other vestibular or proprioreceptive deficits. They take it and they can stand up straight again.
Coincidentally via BoingBoing 700 Zombie names and their illustrations
Andrew Willett #59.
At some point I will be able to pick myself up off the floor, and it will be no thanks to nonital. :)
Julie L @ 58... Heheheh.... Is the humor here sick or demented, or sick and demented?
Fragano @ 56: I first thought you were trying to summon Chtulhu; I've never noticed that "terra" is "green" in rot13.
"The brain... It does taste like chicken."
"The brain... It does taste like chicken."
But with the texture and consistency of grapefruit.
"Brains. It's what for dinner."
(Cue to Copeland's Rodeo)
jennie @ 33: If anything, I'm a bit surprised that some people in "real" publishing do use XML/HTML-style markup; the traditional symbols seem to be perfectly adequate for most purposes, and somewhat less subject to being misread, so why change? But I suppose it comes down to what set of symbols are most efficient/effective for a given task or environment.
The "rom" symbol does cause me a bit of a cognitive glitch since it appears to be specifying a font rather than a lack of italicization, bolding, etc.
I find it easier to edit/proofread something on paper than the same text on a screen. Or at least I'm better at noticing errors when they're on a printed page. Back when I was revising software manuals, and before that when I was producing thecal matter, it didn't matter how many times I went over text on a screen; I always found more things to fix when I read through a print-out.
Paxed #63: Hmm. That's a good title for it: Summoning Cthulhu.
Joel @ 67,
The publisher that used XML tags was a high-volume, high-production-value textbook publisher. They had an entire small department whose job was making sure that the processing worked.
XML markup for formatting was actually a pretty natural step for some of the old-time copyeditors we used; they'd all done markup for formatting on hard copy back in the days of hot lead type, or something.
What was different, at least at the Textbook Mills, was combining the copyediting and the markup.
In general, on-screen vs hard-copy editing tends to be one of those serial-comma vs not, Mac vs PC debates. For me, it depends on the kind of edit I'm doing. For a large-scale substantive (or heavy line) edit, where I'm going to make a dog's breakfast out of the author's words, re-organize the order of paragraphs, and delete significant numbers of words, working on-screen is much more efficient, tidier, and generally to be preferred. If I'm given the option, I like to do the first pass of my commas-and-verb-tenses copyedit on-screen, then print out a "clean" copy for my second pass.
I know people who do perfectly good work onscreen, and I know people who miss stuff on paper that they see onscreen.
In the end, I'm not fussy about how people get there, as long as the result is a clean manuscript that will make the author, the formatter, and me rejoice.
Actually, I find brains quite tasty when sautéed with some sage and green onions. Of course, I mean cow brains. What did you think I meant?
I was. tjhis afternoon, looking for pictures of older American police vehicles, and trying to find out which insignia was used when.
I came across an official California Highway Patrol webpage, detailing the changes associated with the takeover of the State Police. One of the former State Police components is the Office of Dignitary Protection, which includes the Explosive Ordinance Unit.
What sort of laws do they pass in California?
I had loaned a friend a catalog of medical themed novelties (don't know how I ended up on that mailing list), and she ordered a brain jello mold. She used it in some internally produced video for some product rollout (the mad scientist says "This machine has . . . BRAINS!", and throws open a panel to show a quivering brain).
You can order your own brain jello mold here.
Rob Rusick wrote -
I had loaned a friend a catalog of medical themed novelties (don't know how I ended up on that mailing list), and she ordered a brain jello mold. She used it in some internally produced video for some product rollout (the mad scientist says "This machine has . . . BRAINS!", and throws open a panel to show a quivering brain).
You can order your own brain jello mold here.
The fact that there is a brain jello mold that you can buy is pure concentrated awesome.
That is all.
Fragano @ 70... Of course, I mean cow brains. What did you think I meant?
Isn't it risky to eat cow brains? Maybe Joe Lansdale has already written a western tale about comboy zombies whose brains are all pitted from Kreutzfeld.
Dave Bell @ 71
Laws that are not usually pyrotechnically demonstrative. (I've certainly wanted to blow up a few, though.)
I'm not certain that Jell-O is the right thing to use for brains. Preserved brains are pretty held-together (okay, preserved *anything* is pretty held-together) but gelatin... I'm not sure about the texture.
Fragano @ 70 - I'm surprised you can still buy beef brains. When Alton Brown went to that restaurant noted for its brain sandwiches, they had switched to pig brains because of the whole CJD thing. I hope sautéed beef brains are not a regular part of your diet. Too much free verse might be a warning sign.
***
Re: Teresa @ 10, it's 6. (In a near-future SF novel) Re: "He had a stack of paper books on his windowsill." Change "paper" to "paperback"? that made me shudder.
Of course, in any non-apocalyptic near future, books are supposed to be largely electronic, with bound dead-tree versions assuming a market position similar to vinyl LPs. Even if it doesn't happen, like flying cars, the idea has enough mindspace that the reference needs no correction or clarification. Sheesh!
Dave Bell @ 71: What sort of laws do they pass in California?
I recall mailing my California state tax return to an entity called the "Franchise Tax Board". I couldn't decide if the state thought of me as just another Taco Bell, or if the board would review my return and then validate or repeal my right to vote.
Serge #74: It might be risky now, but back in the days of my youth (when my father prepared such delicacies as brains, lights, and balls) no one thought about it.
Hmm. Now I wonder if there might not be zombie cows lurking around. Mooooooooooooooo. Braaaaaaaaaaaaaaaains.
Larry Brennan #77: Not for a long time.
Larry Brennan @ 78
Property owned by utilities gets handled by the State Board of Equalization, who are also the sales tax folks.
On the other hand, in Texas oil wells come under the Railroad Commission.
Don't ask why; it just grew that way.
P.J. Evans, #81: oil wells being administered by the railroad commission, that's not weird.
Your nuclear weapons program being run by the Post Office, now that's weird.
(It's also the Third Reich, but what the hell, this thread had to autogodwinate somewhere or other, didn't it?)
PJ Evans @ 81 - By contrast, New York unashamedly has a "Department of Taxation and Finance". No question about what they do. Taxes.
"Franchise Tax Board" and "Board of Equalization" (which sounds like something from a Vonnegut novel) bespeaks a reluctance to admit that state services need to be paid for.
That denial seems like a western states thing. Washington has no income tax, but we have a very high sales tax, substantial property taxes, and crazy anti-tax zealots who keep pushing initiatives that would turn us into Guatemala within a decade.
Charlie Stross @ 82 - Heck, the US's nuclear weapons may be in the possession of the military, but they're owned by the Department of Energy.
See, it's foreign aid. We just sent them some energy. It's their problem that they didn't put it to productive use!
At least 'Franchise Tax Board' admits that it is dealing with taxes. My own suspicion is that is situations like this, they didn't want to create a new agency, so they stuck the work in one that sort of matched in some way.
The 'railroad commission' situation I think is because a lot of the land (and thus mineral rights) was owned by railroad companies (not unusual in itself in the western US). So, asking the guys theoretically watching over the RR to also watch the mineral rights and later the oil/gas stuff is a natural outgrowth. (Although by that reasoning, the medical licensing board would be regulating the zombies, yes?)
Brains au Beurre Noir
Serves 4
2 beef brains, halved (about 1 1/2 pounds)
water
salt
lemon juice or white vinegar
2 tablespoons all-purpose flour
6 tablespoons butter or margarine
4 French bread slices, toasted
2 tablespoons chopped parsley
1 teaspoon capers, drained
1. Wash brains. Precook: In 3-quart saucepan or Dutch oven, place brains with water to cover. For each 4 cups water, add 1 teaspoon salt and 1 tablespoon lemon juice or vinegar; over high heat, heat to boiling. Reduce heat to low; cover and simmer 20 minutes; drain. Cover with cold water to cool quickly; drain. Carefully remove membrane, being careful to keep brains in one piece. Pat dry with paper towels.
2. On waxed paper, coat brains with flour.
3. In 10-inch skillet over medium heat, in hot butter, cook brains until lightly browned on all sides, turning with pancake turner. Carefully place each brain on a French bread slice on warm platter. Sprinkle with parsley; keep warm.
4. Into drippings in skillet, stir 1 tablespoon white vinegar and capers; pour over brains.
LAMB BRAINS: Use 4 lamb brains (about 1 pound) instead of beef; do not halve.
Coulson, Zoe, ed. The Good Housekeeping Illustrated Cookbook. New York: Hearst Books, 1980.
There is, by the way, a full-color picture of the result. It looks like a brain with parsley on it.
I enjoy reading this recipe out loud to my friends.
Julie @ 58
Congratulations. You have a keen sense for finding rhymes for "thundered." Are you from Oz by any chance. I mean the one down under, not the abode of green witches.
Re: copy-editing in general, I've been wondering something for a while: What happens if/when an author grotesquely misuses a word, but objects strongly to changing it? "You're changing my authorial voice!", or something like that.
As an example, I'll approximately quote from a writer who gave a presentation recently. "He's out there in his space shuttle, and his life support system has failed. He's dealing with the worst thing a man can face: his own immortality. [...] So there he is, surrounded by the stars, overwhelmed by the sheer omniscience of it all."
Joel 88: Do you mean the misuse of 'immortality' or of 'omniscience'?
If the authorial voice is going "Brek-a-kek-kek, co-ax, co-ax" any change is an improvement.
Xopher @ 89, both of 'em. This writer was particularly gifted.
I guess what I'm asking is who gets the final say on the text of a published book, if the author and editor can't agree on some mutually-acceptable wording? Does that depend on the contract?
(Beware of Greeks bearing... um... flies?)
Hmm. I think this is akin to the principle of "You're entitled to your own opinion, but not your own facts." You're entitled to your own word choices, but not your own definitions!
Bruce @ 87: I've only made one brief(ish) jaunt south of the equator, but I also voluntarily consume Vegemite. I suppose that for greater antipodean verisimilitude, I should've used the spelling "arse" instead of "ass" in verse 4.
Meanwhile, the "Variety Meats" volume of Time-Life's "The Good Cook" book series has nine recipes under the main "brains" entry in its index, plus more detailed crossrefs to "lamb brains" and "veal brains". "Brain salad with eggs" turns out to be much less exciting than one might think, essentially "For each serving, arrange some diced poached brain with half of a hard-boiled egg on a lettuce leaf and coat with mayonnaise"; however, the Middle-Eastern recipes sound genuinely interesting, as do the Basque and Moroccan ones.
Paxed, #63: I've never noticed that "terra" is "green" in rot13.
See Open Thread 80, in particular this list.
Caroline @ 86
I can't imagine any zombie would have the patience to prepare such a dish. So I guess we can't expect to see the "Zombie Galloping Gourmet" anytime soon.
Bruce Cohen (SpeakerToManagers):
So I guess we can't expect to see the "Zombie Galloping Gourmet" anytime soon.
I think the "Zombie Lurching Gourmet" is more likely...
You realize, don't you, that if we keep adding to this thread, eventually we will have either discussed or referenced all of human knowledge. Of course, it won't be indexed, and we won't be able to find anything ...
Xopher @ 89
So publishing is yet another business where you have to kiss a lot frogs to get anywhere?
Re: Xopher @ 91, Humpty Dumpty: "Inconceivable!"
Newsday informs us, disapprovingly, that Nassau County has both a fire hydrant rental district and an escalator district.
They aren't opposed to Nassau having fire hydrants, and apparently renting them is not unique to Long Island: rather, the editorial writer doesn't think the county needs that sort of oddly horizontally sliced-and-diced government. (This is separate from the unsurprising fact that different cities and towns in the county have their own governments, which handle certain responsibilities, though others are handled by the county.)
Sorry, there was supposed to be a link in there: the editorial is at this overlong URL.
We're missing a tie-in here to the "300" discussion, and we need to move fast. Quickly, before they trash the outtakes, we need to get them and edit them down into "Spartan Zombies Vs. the Persian Empire" with appropriate dubbing, of course.
Vicki @ 100 - Not surprising. I used to live in Great Neck, specifically the Village of Great Neck Plaza, within the Town of North Hempstead and Nassau County, each of which had its own government.
I was also in the:
* Great Neck Park District
* Great Neck Library District
* Great Neck South Fire District
* Great Neck South Water District
* Great Neck Union Free School District
All of which have different boundaries and separate tax assessments. There were others, but they didn't get broken out in my co-op's annual report.
I wouldn't be surprised if Nassau County had a Division of Fingernail Clipping Removal.
And not a word about knitting. Typical.
SpeakerToManagers@96 - Of course, it won't be indexed, and we won't be able to find anything ...
We have a home like that.
Larry Brennan @84: See, it's foreign aid. We just sent them some energy. It's their problem that they didn't put it to productive use!
I'm envisioning what happens the first time someone *does* come up with a way to put a nuclear warhead to productive use on the fly.
*pop*
"Oh, shit."
Joel (88), it comes down to who has more clout, though few authors have enough clout to push through a truly ridiculous error
Bruce @ #101: Good lord, it happens that Charlie Stross did almost that movie on his blog months ago, well before "300" entered the picture. OK, it was a Macedonian zombie army in modern-day Afghanistan, but frighteningly close...
Julie L. @ 58, you have all my love for that final rhyme, which about took the top of my head off.
For some reason this whole copyediting thread puts me in mind of the Buggre Alle This Bible. Ezekiel Chapter 5, verse 5: Buggre Alle this for a Larke. I amme sick to mye Hart of typefettinge.
Dave Hutchinson @ 102, I'd put in a word about knitting, but I don't knit. I'm tempted to learn, however, just so I can buy this rather pricy kit and make "a knitted willy with realistic head and veins." (Also on the page: kits for a spliff, a lipstick and a grenade...)
Can anyone recommend a few decent zombie novels? We thought we'd put up a display in our store to anticipate the coming zombie thaw, and to remind folks to break their Louisville Sluggers out of winter storage and tone up their machete arms. 'Tis the season to rid your neighborhood of undead before the summer heat makes 'em too stinky. Anyhow, suggestions?
The Resident Evil tie-in novels and novelizations are actually pretty good.
Bruce @ 101: I was deeply tempted during composition of #58 to change the number to "Three Hundred", but figured I didn't have enough background to integrate that, having neither seen the movie or read the graphic novel; the closest I've gotten to studying the Peleponnesian War is reading Gene Wolfe's Latro books.
AJ Luxton @ 108: Oh dear. I hope the top of your head has been successfully refastened and resealed to preserve freshness.
Oh, did someone mention a lack of knitting content?
How about a Futurama brain slug knit pattern? The Museum of Scientifically Accurate Fabric Brain Art? And if one were to knit with intestines, what sort of needles would one prefer? I think my beloved Addi Turbos would be too slick, even if the intestines were carefully washed and prepared beforehand, but bamboo might be too sticky. I am only half joking - while I was an art student, dried pig intestines seemed to be the fiber du jour and I had to walk through more than one gallery that smelled funny (not at all like bacon, sadly).
The proud parents of my devildaughter (being a lawyer, I can't very well be a godparent) reported to me that while out shopping, they asked her what she wanted to eat. Her answer:
"Brains."
She's not quite three.
Clifton @ 107
Oh, so that's where my subconscious dragged that up from. Yeah, I was following that thread. Damn, I'm going to have to send my unconscious mind back to school to reinforce that lesson about filing off serial numbers.
CE Petit #113: I don't usually like kids, but I think I like your devildaughter.
Zombie books: I don't actually know, which is odd considering that I a) love books and b) love zombies, but I've been hearing really good things about World War Z: An Oral History of the Zombie War by Max Brooks--though I wouldn't consider it an authority in any way, as Brooks is also the author of the recently discredited Zombie Survival Guide.
Other than that, all I know of is a graphic novel about the British royal family and zombies that I can't quite recall the name of that's also meant to be good. Maybe, considering who I am, I should start reading books about zombies.
Charlie Stross,
You seem to be the goto guy for undead fiction (and wouldn't Edsger Dijkstra's zombie come after you for that!). So what happens when a medusa is zombified? Seems like total disintegration is the only sure cure.
Julie L. @ 111: I made sure to get all the little marbles back in.
Oh -- has anyone here taken a look at Urban Dead?
How about a zombiethoven?
(from Album: Monty Python's Contractual Obligation Album )
Beethoven's gone, but his music lives on,
And Mozart don't go shopping no more.
You'll never meet Liszt or Brahms again,
And Elgar doesn't answer the door.
Schubert and Chopin used to chuckle and laugh,
Whilst composing a long symphony,
But one hundred and fifty years later,
There's very little of them left to see.
They're decomposing composers.
There's nothing much anyone can do.
You can still hear Beethoven,
But Beethoven cannot hear you.
Handel and Haydn and Rachmaninov
Enjoyed a nice drink with their meal,
But nowadays, no one will serve them,
And their gravy is left to congeal.
Verdi and Wagner delighted the crowds
With their highly original sound.
The pianos they played are still working,
But they're both six feet underground.
They're decomposing composers.
There's less of them every year.
You can say what you like to Debussy,
But there's not much of him left to hear.
Claude Achille Debussy-- Died, 1918.
Christophe Willebald Gluck-- Died, 1787.
Carl Maria von Weber-- Not at all well, 1825. Died, 1826.
Giacomo Meyerbeer-- Still alive, 1863. Not still alive, 1864.
Modeste Mussorgsky-- 1880, going to parties. No fun anymore, 1881.
Johan Nepomuk Hummel-- Chatting away nineteen to the dozen with his mates down the pub every evening, 1836. 1837, nothing.
Teresa, 106: So who decides?
When I send my copyedit back marked "stet" all over, and in some cases stamped "stet" all over with my little stet stamp and great vehemence, who then adjudicates?
If it's you, that's OK, but I don't see how you could possibly have time.
If it's a dispassionate panel of neutrals, that's also OK, but I don't know how the publishers could afford one.
If it's the same copyeditor who has tried to bland everything down to NYTimespeak and reverse the meaning of my sentences, this is worrying, though I assume it isn't the case because I do read the galleys.
Jo 119: Note to anyone who might want to get me a gift: I now voraciously crave a stet stamp, and will never buy one for myself.
I am now imagining an author saying "Stet" to the copy-editor in the style of Pulp Fiction
I think that one says 'stet' with more authority when wearing a stetson.
#121: "Say 'stet' again. I dare you. I double dare you, motherfscker. Say 'stet' one more goddamn time."
If only dealing with copy-edits was that simple ...
Let me give you a scenario:
A Very Good Friend Of Mine[*] is a British writer, selling their novels to a US publisher. They are subsequently copy-edited by an American copy editor and then republished in the UK without further editing.
Normally they write in American English and the copy edits are done in American English, so everything's fine. But they have just handed in a novel set in Scotland, in the near future, and it's written in .. well, it's written in what they expect to be a near-future Scottish English vernacular.
What does the copy editor do?
The copy editor does the obvious, logical thing and goes to the OED and their book of British English usage, and attempts to canonicalize everything to correct British English usage.
Except ...
Over here on Airstrip One, we consume a lot of American English media products. We're therefore bilingual (at the reading stage) in American English and British English. We understand "elevator" means "lift", "station wagon" means "estate car", and so on. We are also creepingly subject to the syndrome the Academie Francaise keeps yammering about, namely the uptake of foreign usage and words -- which we use whenever we feel like it, without guilt.
Scottish English is not British (English) English. It's got unique words of its own, and differing usage of some shared words. In some cases, the use is closer to American English than British English ... and in some cases it isn't.
Finally, the British Author is used to writing for an American audience and therefore uses Americanisms when some of their compatriots would not do so.
So: the British writer who is used to writing in American English has submitted a Scottish English novel containing both (a) intentional Americanisms and (b) accidental Americanisms, not to mention Scottishisms, to an American copy-editor who has to second-guess their intentions, before the novel goes into print in the United States and ultimately the UK.
Who decides what's right here?
I dunno, but one thing's clear -- the author owes the copy editor a bottle of Scotch.
[*] Chatham House rules, okay?
Charlie Stross in #124 writes:
Who decides what's right here?I dunno, but one thing's clear -- the author owes the copy editor a bottle of Scotch.
I am always profoundly grateful when an author sends me a note with a heads-up about terms, dialect, special names, etc. Sometimes they include a list, but even a blanket statement about what they're doing is very helpful.
It may seem odd . . . but copy editing and reading is different from reading reading.
Somewhere way back on this thread, a woman who loses a leg to a zombie and then replaces the missing limb with a nasty-looking rifle, instantly made me think of Heather Mills McCartney. (Have you seen that ad for her on the next season of "Dancing With the Stars"?)
Jo Walton, #119: "Teresa, 106: So who decides? When I send my copyedit back marked 'stet' all over, and in some cases stamped 'stet' all over with my little stet stamp and great vehemence, who then adjudicates?"
As your editor, I do, and my tendency is to rule in favor of the author most of the time. It's their book.
I'm not an absolutist. I've overruled authors' stets, but only rarely. More commonly, further down the line, proofreaders, sluggers, and production editors have sometimes spotted flat-out errors that the copyeditor, the author, and I all missed--for instance, whole words left out of sentences, obviously by accident. In those instances, particularly when time is short, I've silently made the correction. It hasn't been an issue yet.
But leaving aside these occasional exceptions, by and large I'm the guy saying, no, we won't be making that change because the author doesn't want it and it's the author's
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