Posting in ur thread,
Poet Cat is poetic;
Give Rhysling now plz?

Posted June 28, 2007 7:15 PM by Jon

abi @6:
Only during the full moon.

Posted June 28, 2007 7:17 PM by jack

$87 billion is the shocking amount that Dubya requested from Congress in order to attack Iraq.

"If we spread...$87 billion over an American football field, we would not be able to see much of the game. The players would be buried in 55 feet of money."

More shocking is that we've spent three and a half times that much to date.

Posted June 28, 2007 7:23 PM by Tesla

#9 Tesla, ouch, just think of the papercuts. Good thing a lot went missing. I mean, think of how deep a pile those players would have to slog through with just the accounted for cash, if we added all those pallets of political contributions, I mean, walking around free spending, democracy building dollars, why, it'd be gianormous.

Posted June 28, 2007 7:31 PM by Steve Buchheit

Closer to five times that much.

Posted June 28, 2007 7:34 PM by Earl Cooley III

Does anybody know if Gene Wolf has lots of guns? He seems like the type to have lots of guns.

I have this fear that I'm going to be walking around one day, and then *BLAM!* Gene Wolf shoots me in the face out of nowhere.

Also, he's brilliant enough to befuddle the police officers and get away with it.

Could you imagine the police officers trying to interrogate Gene Wolf about shooting me? Poor cops would be better off just getting autographs and letting the guy go.

Posted June 28, 2007 7:35 PM by jmmcdermott

Re: billions of dollars, I wonder if the square footage of Halliburton's HQ is available online; why bother with imaginary football field comparisons when the actual delivery site of said cash is known?

Posted June 28, 2007 7:35 PM by Linkmeister

You may now make Desert Fox jokes.

Posted June 28, 2007 7:39 PM by Dave Bell

I always thought of the word "game" in the phrase as referring to "contest" rather than "prey". But in the case of werewolves, I can see how the latter context might fit better.

And Abi is correct - now that the game is afoot, it can indeed become...apawling:

Were wary werewolf words wearing?

Posted June 28, 2007 7:49 PM by Lance Weber

we widdle werewolves won't waddle away.

Nope, not yet.

Posted June 28, 2007 7:53 PM by Steve Buchheit

#14 ::: Dave Bell announced:
You may now make Desert Fox jokes.

"Just peachy darhling"

Posted June 28, 2007 7:55 PM by xeger

Dave Bell (14), is that anything like the 7th Armoured Brigade's Wüstenspringmaus?

Xeger (5), if you were there and didn't say hello, I'm going to be ticked.

Posted June 28, 2007 7:57 PM by Teresa Nielsen Hayden

So a football field, 275' deep in money.

Can I just take the top layer?

Posted June 28, 2007 8:02 PM by Terry Karney

Linkmeister #13: Halliburton announced they were moving their HQ to Dubai earlier this year. My guess is it was easier to relocate over there than to move all that cash back here :)

Posted June 28, 2007 8:12 PM by Lance Weber

#18 ::: Teresa Nielsen Hayden threatened:
Xeger (5), if you were there and didn't say hello, I'm going to be ticked.

I wasn't there - I was back on the east coast, melting :(

Posted June 28, 2007 8:18 PM by xeger

Lance @ #20, right. Logistics uber alles. I shoulda known.

Posted June 28, 2007 8:28 PM by Linkmeister

The transitway to Hell, apparently, connects through Midway airport.

Have been trapped here for 5 hours. No end in sight.

I would say "send food", but they do have a pretty good sandwich place here, at least ...

Sigh.

Posted June 28, 2007 8:36 PM by meredith

Xeger, #17: I'm sure you intended Desert Peach, but what came up on that link was Stinz.

Posted June 28, 2007 8:41 PM by Lee

re: Sidelight WWBSD?

Did anyone else initially think:
"What would an Open Source software distribution do? No, that can't be it. Maybe I should go look."

Just wondering.

Posted June 28, 2007 8:46 PM by Tania

Tania @#26:

You're not the only one....

I would just wonder how long after we figure out WWBSD we'd have before Theo de Raadt points out what we're doing wrong.

Posted June 28, 2007 8:59 PM by Bill Blum

#24 ::: Lee noted:
Xeger, #17: I'm sure you intended Desert Peach, but what came up on that link was Stinz.

Gah! Can I blame it on wendacious wascally werewolves altering my link? :)

Posted June 28, 2007 9:09 PM by xeger

#27, only if you're the ghost of Warren Zevon.

Posted June 28, 2007 9:15 PM by Linkmeister

12 I can't see Gene Wolfe as a gun nut. I can definitely see him hiding an explosive device in a can of Pringles brand potato-chip-like snacks, though. Of course, it would be the kind of explosive device that makes a sad little popping noise while the real danger came from somewhere else entirely.

Posted June 28, 2007 9:21 PM by C.E. Petit

jmmcdermott @#12:

Gene Wolfe, gun nut? Gosh, I can't imagine it. His picture is in the dictionary under "avuncular."

If he was going to randomly kill a fellow, I'm confident he'd do it in a way that was charming, lyrical, and irritatingly labyrinthine.

Posted June 28, 2007 9:50 PM by Mary Dell

meredith @#23: Hi from about 50 blocks south of there! Sorry you're stuck. Cinnabons are a good way to pass the time...

Posted June 28, 2007 9:52 PM by Mary Dell

I'm busily sysopping the new McClatchy comment threads (they've added comments to the news stories).

I'm still working on the Trauma and You post, which is on track to get away from me. Big subject. Don't really know how to approach it yet.

I've also been doing an awful lot of EMTing. Haven't been on a run since ... two this morning. But had a squad meeting and a mandatory training session since then.

Plus I'm trying to write a novel or four.

Posted June 28, 2007 10:26 PM by James D. Macdonald

Haiku open threads?
this can only end in tears:
bad poets in snow

Posted June 28, 2007 10:27 PM by marty

I bet I know what Teresa's doing! At least, I hope I do.

Posted June 28, 2007 10:31 PM by John A Arkansawyer

bad poets in snow
starring in an anime
turning japanese

Posted June 28, 2007 10:31 PM by Nicole J. LeBoeuf-Little

turning japanese
poems into a summer
game because we're bored

Posted June 28, 2007 10:42 PM by TexAnne

Eeee, sorry, guys--I didn't set up my last line very well at all! Try this instead:

turning japanese
poems into the summer's
games that we all play

Posted June 28, 2007 10:44 PM by TexAnne

'game because we're bored'
might become a horrible
hunting/Scrabble pun.

Posted June 28, 2007 10:47 PM by Diatryma

TexAnne, mine turned out even worse. Let's consider that one a doubly dead end.

Posted June 28, 2007 10:49 PM by Diatryma

I have a shirt that says:

haiku are easy
but they don't always make sense
refrigerator

I like that shirt. I don't think I can really beat that one; it makes me smile every time I see it.

Posted June 28, 2007 10:49 PM by Fade Manley

Okay, okay, you win:

I bet that I know
What Teresa has afoot
At least, I think so

Posted June 28, 2007 10:56 PM by John A Arkansawyer

Tonight's dinner-table conversation topic (well, one of them) was: "Where are all the Latino SF authors and characters"?

Johnny Rico barely counts; as a young teenager reading Starship Troopers, even with his last name and the South American locations, he read entirely Anglo to me. (Possibly the fact that I was living in an area with almost no Latino population had something to do with it.)

There's Jorge Luis Borges, but I can't think of a single other notable Latino author, let alone one that would be as recognizable in the pop-culture world as Isaac Asimov or even Octavia Butler.

And I can't think of a single major SF show with a Latino major or recurring character.

Fandom reflects this; it's still a very whitebread community. More black people than there used to be -- but then, there are black SF characters on TV dating back to Lt. Uhura. Virtually no Latinos at all. Perhaps the experience of people in different parts of the country varies...?

Posted June 28, 2007 11:13 PM by Lee

Beth realized it was ineffective to be the only editor not permitting a credit in the books.

Posted June 28, 2007 11:13 PM by beth meacham

hunting/Scrabble pun
"xenophobia" gets points
too bad not funny

Posted June 28, 2007 11:18 PM by Mary Dell

So, Beth, anytime we pick up a Tor book and there's no editor credited, we can assume thats your work?

Posted June 28, 2007 11:25 PM by John A Arkansawyer

"And I can't think of a single major SF show with a Latino major or recurring character."

I saw a fair amount of press hailing Edward James Olmos as the first major Latino character on an SF show. (Admiral Adama, the new Battlestar Galactica.) I wouldn't have known, otherwise.

Also:

Haiku are simple:
You can always wrap up with
"Motherfucker".

Posted June 28, 2007 11:30 PM by Andrew Plotkin

I'm skipping past most of the comments here, so forgive me, but I just have to say that the hippopotamus haiku is BRILLIANT.

Posted June 28, 2007 11:41 PM by CB

Lee @ #42:
What is your precise definition of "Latino"?

Posted June 28, 2007 11:44 PM by Susan

#42: The only latino SF writer I know of is the deceptively named Ernest Hogan.

Posted June 28, 2007 11:49 PM by Stefan Jones

Latino Characters from SF TV/Movies:

• Vasquez, Aliens

• Jo Lupo, Eureka
• Max (Jessica Alba), Dark Angel

P.S. I'm not dismissing the validity of the argument, just throwing some examples out there. Also interesting that they are all (relatively) attractive women.

Posted June 28, 2007 11:52 PM by Lance Weber

Just to confuse things, Heinlein's character Johnny Rico is Filipino-American, and I don't think either Filipinos or Latinos identify Filipinos as being Latinos.

Posted June 28, 2007 11:59 PM by Clifton Royston

P.P.S. I was _this_ close to working in a Hugo Chavez as SF character/writer joke, but fatigue has overwhelmed my "Is this really funny or are you just being an @sshole again?" filter which means I can't post it.

No, seriously, I'm not allowed to post it. For some reason, the filter was a pre-nuptial requirement by my wife and she can telepathically sense when I try to bypass it...

Posted June 29, 2007 12:05 AM by Lance Weber

in thread 86
comment held for approval
w t f is that?

Posted June 29, 2007 12:29 AM by Greg London

Andrew, #46: Olmos certainly qualifies as an actor, but his character is not Latino. I don't know whether that counts or not. (We don't have cable, so I haven't seen much of BSG.)

Susan, #48: I don't have a strong definition -- "any writer or actor who self-identifies as one" would do.

Lance, #50: Counter-examples are one of the things I was looking for, so thank you. And yes, it is notable that "female exotic" is one of the few widely-available role types for them, not just in SF.

Posted June 29, 2007 12:52 AM by Lee

Greg @53, PNH @ future.

Complex URL,
or too many links, or both.
That's whats held my posts.

I had a comment held even though it had less links than other comments that went right through. The culprit- I guessed- was a very long and nested link.

PNH- I see a repeat of my bug report from OT85. However, Greg's comment doesn't seem to have an URL. Sinks that hypothesis.

Greg's comment is being held.
* It isn't visible in the thread.
* It also isn't visible on "Recent Comments" on the front page.
* It IS visible in the "View All By"

(Also, the 3 spam are still up at the end of the Fanfic force thread.)

Posted June 29, 2007 12:54 AM by Kathryn from Sunnyvale

Cherry blossoms fall
All haiku must start like this
And finish with blood

Posted June 29, 2007 1:04 AM by j h woodyatt

Kathryn from the west
gives diagnostics data
to overworked hosts

Posted June 29, 2007 1:18 AM by Tania

arrgh.

should be diagnostic, not diagnostics.

Posted June 29, 2007 1:20 AM by Tania

There's Hugo Reyes on Lost.

Posted June 29, 2007 1:36 AM by Jen Roth

@57

One misspelled word falls,
on the crystallized poems
The avalanche starts
------

Line one is concrete,
then comes abstract references
to beauty, or time.
------

That named in line one
is life, which dies by line four,
So in three eat plums

Posted June 29, 2007 1:46 AM by Kathryn from Sunnyvale

Lee @ 42: For authors--if you count Borges--how about the Latin American magical realists in general? Garcia Marquez, at least, I think, and I suspect I could make a case for several less well-known-in-this-country authors, too.

Maybe we need to add to the discussion the possibility that many Latino SF/Fantasy authors aren't writing in English?

Posted June 29, 2007 1:52 AM by Mary Frances

Lee @42, & following conversation:

I actually think that Edward James Olmos as Adama on BSG is an excellent thing. There's no reason, in the BSG world, for the ethnicity of the actor to have anything to do with the characters since there is no Latin America in the twelve colonies. Choosing to cast somebody other than the default white guy or the token "We're going to be progressive see, see!" black guy makes it look like they're accepting that race as we think of it has nothing to do with the world they're portraying and so it needn't be an issue in casting.

I think part of the larger issue, at least as it pertains to dead-tree forms of scifi (and the need to limit it to those aspects probably indicates a serious flaw in this idea) is that authors are taking advantage of it being the future meaning that race isn't an issue anymore, and so can be ignored. Still, it's often there to be found if you look; just taking Heinlein as a point of reference we have Mannie's line from TMIAHM about Wyoh sticking out on Luna because she's white and blond and the native population is generally fairly brown, and he's got a short story - the name's slipping me and my library's a time zone away but I think it was collected in Expanded Universe - where the punchline is that the token black female vice president candidate is going to take office and won't step down even though others are trying to pressure her into it because she was chosen as a token figure. Also, there's a quick line in I will Fear No Evil about how unsavory it is to interact with people who spend their time complaining about minorities getting preferential treatment.

I suspect part of the problem could be that the Latinos are writing in Spanish and it isn't getting translated. I can list a few more Latino writers than have been listed already, but only because I've for untranslated stuff more accessible to a gringa than Borges. I haven't poked for Spanish language scifi since my vocabulary shortage would make me cry, but a quick google lead me to a few useful sites. There's probably tons more, but I'm stealing wireless.

Posted June 29, 2007 2:08 AM by anaea

haiku go meta
seventeen syllables here
what more could you want?

Posted June 29, 2007 2:11 AM by Bruce Cohen (SpeakerToManagers)

Bruce: puns and kennings
knitting zombie lolcats and
Jim's 'How Not To Die.'
----

Accommodate weird
minuscule embarrassment:
Gandhi etiquette.

----
This is just to say
Twenty pastiches total
only eight to go.

Posted June 29, 2007 3:01 AM by Kathryn from Sunnyvale

Raindrops on roses
And whiskers on kittens are
My favorite things.

Posted June 29, 2007 3:19 AM by Dave Bell

I just watched an odd film called "Shadowboxer" with Cuba Gooding and Helen Mirren. We recorded it off the dish because of the cast; they didn't disappoint at all, but I'm somewhat undecided about the movie itself. Has anyone else seen it, and what was your reaction?

Posted June 29, 2007 3:27 AM by Bruce Cohen (SpeakerToManagers)

wet flowers, Dave Bell?
hairy nosed baby felines -
your favoured things?

-----

!
?;
&:

:)
exclamation point
question mark semicolon
ampersand colon

Posted June 29, 2007 3:53 AM by marty

arggg... 'favourite' not favoured...

wait.. 'fav-our-ed'... err yeah.. pronounce that with three syllables.. that'll do it.

Posted June 29, 2007 4:04 AM by marty

Hmm.... Latino actors/characters in (media) SF:

B'Elanna Torres in ST: Voyager
Gaff (Edward James Olmos) in Blade Runner[*]
Just about all the cast of the Spy Kids movies (if you want to consider those as SF)

(I assume we're interested in English-language writing or media, otherwise it would be relatively easy to add, say, Mexican or Spanish movies.)

[*] Not clear if Gaff is, precisely, Latino

A review of an anthology of Spanish- and Portuguese-language SF.

Posted June 29, 2007 4:55 AM by Peter Erwin

For the admins:

I'm not sure what anti-spam measures you're using, but in light of the recent meltdown of the Whatever (probably) because of a huge influx of spam, can I recommend a very easy plugin called SpamFirewall? It blocks the most common forms of spam before MT even knows their existence, so it reduces server load and the amount of comments that end up in MT's junk file. I use it myself and it works great.

(Also, Comment E-Mail Filter would let frequent commenters get through the spam filter even if they post unusual links, which might be helpful. I also use this one and like it.)

Posted June 29, 2007 7:40 AM by Kate Nepveu

I haven't written a haiku since 1985 (it was about a squirrel) and I've just sat here for fifteen minutes trying to squeeze my sentiment (and that's a collection of words that didn't sound so horrible in my head) into 17 elegant syllables. Can't be done.

So, in prose, thank you very much to ethan for mentioning Kim Stanley Robinson's Mars trilogy. I've had a lovely time the last few weeks, hanging out with the First Hundred.

Posted June 29, 2007 7:42 AM by Madeline Kelly

I had a comment pulled for approval in the last open thread; I figured I had been posting too much and took it as a sign from the fluorosphere to stop writing song verses.

Posted June 29, 2007 8:03 AM by Diatryma

Madeline's squirrel
Stole her future haiku and
Hid them with its nuts.

The stash, forgotten,
Sprouted in springtime, with mixed
Oak and poe-trees.

A carpenter came
Seeking free materials
And cut down the trees.

He carved a small box
(Not a wardrobe - that is
Another story.)

I keep my hair sticks
Inside it. Inspiration
Leaks into my brain.

Sorry, Madeline.
Im writin al ur poemz.
I blame the squirrel.

Posted June 29, 2007 8:05 AM by abi

Lee @#42: Not that it indicates a trend or anything, but wasn't the main gal in Greg Bear's Eon Latina? I read it a while back but I seem to remember that.

Clifton Royston @#51: yep, all the Filipino folk I know are asian, but many of them have ostentatiously latinate names (Virgilio, for example). Kind of a cool thing, except for being the product of brutal colonization and whatnot.

Posted June 29, 2007 8:05 AM by Mary Dell

Lee @42 Well, there's Lord John Quetzal (son of the Duke of Mechicoe, I believe) in the Lord Darcy books, but I suppose that's a stretch.

There's Kit Rodriguez in Diane Duane's Wizards series

Posted June 29, 2007 8:40 AM by OtterB

And Isabel Allende's City of the Beasts and sequels

Posted June 29, 2007 8:41 AM by OtterB

For Latino SF writers there's the aforementioned Borges and Garcia Marquez. Apart from them, a few years ago Ursula Le Guin put out a rather nice translation of Angélica Gorodischer's _Kalpa Imperial_. (Gorodischer being Argentine, like Borges, and _Kalpa_ being subtitled "The greatest empire that never was.")

Posted June 29, 2007 8:46 AM by Tucker

science fiction with
latinos sells better as
"magic realism"

But seriously, for another example: I haven't read it for a long time, but didn't Lucius Shepard's Life During Wartime feature significant "local" characters in its Central American milieu?

Posted June 29, 2007 8:52 AM by Alex R

What about Willi Wachendon in Vinge's The Peace War?

Posted June 29, 2007 8:56 AM by abi

Bad wiki query
reveals spanish cycle team.
Kaiku rock! Sorry.

Posted June 29, 2007 9:03 AM by Russ

Greg and others: The word "mortgage", all by itself, somehow got into the list of strings that land a comment in the moderation queue. Sorry about that. Fixed now.

Posted June 29, 2007 9:09 AM by Patrick Nielsen Hayden

Whiskers on roses
and raindrops on kittens are
also nice to have.

Posted June 29, 2007 9:10 AM by Bruce Cohen (SpeakerToManagers)

Alex R, yes indeed, Life During Wartime had many, many significant local characters.

Gosh, that was a great book! I really thought he'd get significant mainstream crossover action on it, between the subject matter, the timing, and the marketing. Has he written anything else that good?

Posted June 29, 2007 9:17 AM by John A Arkansawyer

R(odrigo) Garcia y Robertson sounds more than somewhat Latino to me, but I have no idea.

I generally dislike totting up lists like this; who knows what the person involved feels like?

As for Latino characters in SF, there was a series of shorts fairly recently set in a near-future maquiladora. I believe they were in Asimov's. The ambiance was Blade Runner crossed with magic realism, and almost all the characters were Mexican.

Posted June 29, 2007 9:20 AM by DaveL

I have a small dilemma (about 10 pounds) that I'd appreciate some help resolving. It's a side of Alaskan salmon, currently sitting in the freezer, after having been picked up for me by a friend who was in Anchorage recently.
It's possible that the housemate, the dog, the cats, and I can simply eat all of it in one sitting, after grilling it, but that seems unwise, although Death By Gorging on Salmon may not be the worst way to go.
Does anyone have a favorite salmon recipe they'd care to share? We're already browsing online recipe resources, but since there are so many devout foodies here, I thought I'd see what the Fluourosphere might have to share.

Posted June 29, 2007 9:21 AM by fidelio

I've eaten the plums
in the icebox. So sorry!
So sweet, and so cold.

Posted June 29, 2007 9:30 AM by Sarah S

So here I am, settling in on my morning bus ride to work. I pull out my recent library acquisition (my only time to read recreationally), Freedom and Necessity. I read the dedication page and burst out laughing, startling all the reserved Seattlites in the seats around me. After months of reading Making Light, it's like I know these people! What fun. Y'all made my day.

Posted June 29, 2007 9:39 AM by moe99

jmmcdermott @ 12: "Could you imagine the police officers trying to interrogate Gene Wolf about shooting me? Poor cops would be better off just getting autographs and letting the guy go."

If Gene Wolfe wanted to kill you, you can be sure that he'd be the last person on the planet to be interrogated about it--they'd probably end up arresting Randy Newman.

Posted June 29, 2007 9:50 AM by Heresiarch

Bruce @ 82: Though I imagine the kitten disagrees.

Raindropped kitteh sez
DO NOT WANT

Posted June 29, 2007 9:56 AM by Heresiarch

marty @67,

The punctuation haiku is brilliant. I am slightly biased because it contains my favorite punctuation mark ever.

Posted June 29, 2007 10:20 AM by Fade Manley

you all are evil
silly song stuck in my head
must not sing at work!

---

Hail the iPod filk!
For I must focus on screen
end of fiscal year

Posted June 29, 2007 10:28 AM by Sisuile

Counting syllables
Is not how you write haiku.
The subject matters.

Posted June 29, 2007 10:32 AM by Kip W

meredith #23: You have my sympathy. In January we were stranded for hours at Louis Armstrong Airport.

Posted June 29, 2007 10:34 AM by Fragano Ledgister

I know the author is Irish, but wouldn't MacDonald's Brasyl count as Latino sci-fi? Or is "Latino" reserved for descendants of Spanish colonies only?

Posted June 29, 2007 10:36 AM by mimi

There's Angélica Gorodischer, also Argentinian; Ursula Le Guin translated her novel Kalpa Imperial, and part of it appeared in one of the Star Light anthologies edited by our Patrick. The Sferoj 4 anthology (the only one of that series I own, but there were ten or eleven volumes) has sf short stories from authors in a number of countries including Argentina, Spain, Venezuela, and Cuba translated into Esperanto; and I'm fairly sure one of Hartwell & Cramer's recent Year's Best SF anthologies had a story translated from Spanish, by two authors from Spain -- can't recall the title or many but it was a time travel story involving an incident in Spain's recent history.

As for American Latino or Hispanic authors, R. Garcia y Robertson is the only one who comes to mind.

Posted June 29, 2007 10:40 AM by Jim Henry

Heresiarch @ 89

Hermes Dances-with-raindrops would disagree.
Jewel, on the other hand, once was found with hind feet six inches up a screen door, climbing it to avoid water on the patio, four inches below the screen door. Getting the screen door open to let her in was ... interesting.

Posted June 29, 2007 10:43 AM by P J Evans

Fade @ 40:

Today I wear that
shirt, and today Making Light
is making me smile.

Coincidence? Or
do the summer storms also
bring haiku showers?

Posted June 29, 2007 10:45 AM by Becky

fidelio @85: James Beard has a wonderful poached salmon recipe in one of his books. I'm not at home to check which one it is right now, but Amazon's "Search Inside the Book" turned up what looks like a very similar recipe on pages 135 and 136 of "James Beard's American Cookery". See the recipes "A Simple Court Bouillon" and "Cold Poached Salmon Steaks". You can do a whole side of salmon instead of the steaks, see the information earlier in the book for adjusting the cooking time.

The good thing about this recipe is that is just as good cold, so you don't have to eat it in one sitting.

Posted June 29, 2007 10:45 AM by DavidS

Sorry, should be:

"...can't recall the title or many details but..."

Posted June 29, 2007 10:45 AM by Jim Henry

I'm silent because I've been gone. (Honest, I'm only linking to it because the form's appropriate.)

---L.

Posted June 29, 2007 10:48 AM by L.N. Hammer

I am still waiting
The potted plums on my porch
Are almost ripe now

I hate trying to write the 5/7/5 pattern

I rewrote this one twice, trying to avoid the ham handed first draft (where I flat out said Summer). On the other hand, plums aren't an early summer fruit in Japan, so the seasonality is localised.

Then again, perhaps I'm being to slavish to form.

I learned haiku by reading lots of translations, and gained a "feel" for them. Many (most) of them weren't forced into the pattern (the worst was a collection which not only did that, but made the first and last lines rhyme).

One of my favorites:

To leave it is a pity
To pluck it is a pity,
Ah! this violet.

Issa (1763-1828)

Posted June 29, 2007 10:50 AM by Terry Karney

abi @ 79

I thought Willi Wachendon was black. Isn't his name a dialect form of "Washington"?

Posted June 29, 2007 10:51 AM by Bruce Cohen (SpeakerToManagers)

Blasts from the past:

One, two, three, four, five
Six, seven, eight... how many?
Seventeen? Haiku!

It seems rude to put a picture right here in the comments, so I'll just post the link here. This seems vaguely related to Dave Bell's comment at #14. This picture was referred to as "Die gute Kamareden" at the LiveJournal (in Russian) of "onkel_hans." You folks who read Russian might be profusely thanked for going over there and telling me if the comments give a clue as to what is going on. Camouflaged spy?

Posted June 29, 2007 10:57 AM by Kip W

fidelio -- you could cook all the salmon then use the leftovers in pasta salad, omelets, etc. Or make Smoky Salmon Spread, one of the first things I learned to cook after I got married. I usually make it with canned salmon, but the equivalent amount of fresh cooked should be yummy.

1 14 oz can salmon, drained, bones removed
16 oz cream cheese, softened
1/2 tsp dill weed
2 tsp Liquid Smoke flavoring
4 tsp lemon juice
1-4 drops Tabasco sauce

Process the cream cheese till smooth in a food processor, then add the other ingredients and process till it's as smooth as you want it. Nice with a sprinkle of parsley on top. Keeps maybe a week in the fridge; doesn't really freeze too nicely. Serve on crackers or bagels. Cats love it, too!

Posted June 29, 2007 11:11 AM by Janet Brennan Croft

Fidelio:

Is is really good? Would you trust it as sashimi? (I think I've said it before, cooking salmon pretty much ruins it for me).

Chop some into bite sized pieces. Toss it with diced scallions, a little wasabized mayo (with, perhaps, a dash of garlic), some soy sauce and rice wine vinegar. Dress with a mix of plain, and toasted, sesame seeds.

Adapted from a dish I got at Mashiko, in W. Seattle (I told the cook I wanted a salmon salad).

For grilling:

Take the fish, marainate it in a mix of soy and teriyaki (to taste, though we use about 1:1.5), some rice wine vinegar, some crushed garlic, and a couple of sprigs of rosemary. We put it into a vacuum bag (food evacuator). That allows for marination with a lot less liquid.

You could add some sake to it, if you wanted.

After it's been in the fridge for 5-24 hours, remove it from the marinade, pat it dry and grill, aiming for an internal temp of 155-165 (pull it from the fire about five degrees before it's done, and let it rest).

Figure ten minutes per inch (though this is variable, depending on the heat of the fire), and flip the fish after about 6-7 minutes. I tend to cook the meat side first.

Maia's mother and I worked this one out, and it's one of the few ways of cooking salmon I don't mind. We've done it at the house; on the gas grill, and over an open fire in Joshua Tree (battery powered probe thermometers are a godsend when cooking somthing like this in the dark of a January night). It's almost foolproof.

You can, should you like, toss some rosemary (not from the marinade) onto the fire after you turn it. This is a lot easier here, where it's a weed, and I can collect it by the pound outside the supermarket.

You could also slice some thin, and make gravlax out of it.

Posted June 29, 2007 11:13 AM by Terry Karney

My favorite "super-simple-give-to-friends" salmon marinade:

Reduce 1C Soy Sauce and 1/2C Balsamic Vinegar by half in a saucepan (or further if desired).

Brush reduction on salmon steaks prior to and during grilling.

Dress steaks with cippolini's and serve.

This also works fantabulously with grilled sirloin cubes and cippolini's for summer party appetizers.

Posted June 29, 2007 11:19 AM by Lance Weber

Kip: They don't really talk about the bear (though it's not brown, but "field gray". It's a photo in which Onkel Hans' grandfather is seen (to the right of "Private first class 'Bear'".

But why/if someone was in a silly suit, isn't being talked about; though a strong comment that it was just soldiering, not being a nazi party member was made.

If I'm inerpreting the mix of the russian and the german (which I don't really speak) properly, his grandfather is the Senior Sergeant on the far right.

Posted June 29, 2007 11:26 AM by Terry Karney

fidelio @ 85: I don't have a recipe for you, but your request brings back a memory that I can't resist sharing.

Back in the late 1980's, I was listening to a Bay Area radio food show (probably this one or a predecessor also hosted by Narsai David), with guest Alice Waters, the chef at Chez Panisse in Berkeley. Alice Waters is known for her emphasis on local, fresh cooking. Anyway, this show had a call-in segment, and one of the callers called in with your question: she had a large salmon in the freezer and wanted some recipe suggestions.

Well, Alice Waters was so flabbergasted by the thought of actually *freezing* a perfectly good salmon that she was unable to come up with a response. All she could do was ask why the caller had done such a thing -- she said, iirc, that she should have taken the fish to her local smokehouse (!) or something if she couldn't eat it all while it was fresh. The host, Narsai, finally bailed her out before the caller was completely humiliated by suggesting that she consider making gravlax or something similar.

I've always remembered this whenever I hear about chefs with fanatical devotion to certain ideas about food.

BTW, good luck with the fish -- I wish I had your problem...

Posted June 29, 2007 11:29 AM by Alex R

Stefan, #49: Having now taken a look at your link, I think I'm going to have to get some of this guy's books. And if I like them, I'll be pushing for him as a guest at ApolloCon. Thanks!

anaea, #62: Excellent point re casting of Olmos.

Peter, #69: Spy Kids, yes! I remember seeing one of those on eternal-loop at CostCo and thinking how cool it was to have (what looked like) a mainstream kids' movie with Latino main characters.

Otterb, #75: Kit definitely counts; Lord John doesn't, I think, being a full-blooded Aztec. (I have a huge literary crush on Lord John.)

Posted June 29, 2007 11:31 AM by Lee

Patrick@81: Greg and others: The word "mortgage", all by itself, somehow ...

na NAAH nah na-na-na, mortgage
na nah NAH na, mortgage.

Not only has this earworm been bothering me simply by repeating itself in my head all morning, it's been bothering me that it keeps playing despite my protests that it's one syllable too short.

(sigh)

Posted June 29, 2007 11:32 AM by Greg London

Bruce 102:

Wili is a black kid who speaks Spanish, but that's not exactly a distinguisher for being hispanic! Ever meet anyone from Cuba or the Dominican Republic? (His last name is clearly from his adopted father/math teacher, Sylvester Washington.)

Posted June 29, 2007 11:38 AM by albatross

Scrabble/hunting pun:
if you use blanks
you don't score

Posted June 29, 2007 11:41 AM by Erik Nelson

cardboard tube weapon
is deadlier than it looks
at Penny Arcade.

(Sorry! It got into my head! I blame the Samurai!)

First thing I did upon opening this thread was read the brilliant Hippopotamus haiku to the rest of the room. The first thing the rest of the room did (after laughing) was recite the "refrigerator" haiku at me and say that an absent acquaintance has that T-shirt. Then what do I see not 40 posts later? Everything returns to Making Light. It's spooky.

Posted June 29, 2007 11:48 AM by Nicole J. LeBoeuf-Little

Peter Erwin #69: I'm surprised that no one has mentioned Robert Beltrán (Chakotay).

Latino actors
making their way through deep space
rarely get credit.

Posted June 29, 2007 11:53 AM by Fragano Ledgister

abi @ 85 - I do have a favorite salmon recipe, but I don't know whether or not it will be any use to you; I'm normally cooking for one. It uses leftover wasabi paste from takeout sushi, which I freeze to keep till needed; it seems to stay pungent for at least several weeks frozen. It also uses West Virginia Zest Sauce, which is a vinegar and spice concoction from Appalachian Mountain Specialty Foods. It's available on the internet, and I use it a lot (good start for a meat marinade, perks up soups etc.) but a slosh of cider vinegar or wine vinegar and a sprinkle of herb blend would be a reasonable substitute.

Wasabi salmon and spinach
Salmon filet, 1/4-1/2 lb
wasabi
brown sugar
soy sauce
butter
olive oil
fresh spinach
West Virginia Zest Sauce

Around 2 hours before cooking, take a small lump of wasabi (I use about 1/2 the size of the last joint of my little finger. Your fingers may vary) and about 1 tsp brown sugar. Add enough soy sauce to make a thick syrup of the sugar and wasabi. Smear this all over the flesh side of your salmon filet, refrigerate till time to cook. In a large nonstick frying pan, melt about a tsp butter and add a small slosh olive oil; you want enough fat to brown the skin side of the salmon and contribute to the sauce, but It doesn't have to be a lot. Put the salmon in the pan skin side down and cook over medium heat while tearing up spinach. Tear up about as much spinach as you think can fit in the pan; it shrinks a lot. When the salmon looks cooked about halfway through, flip it over and put the spinach in with it. Stir spinach a bit, slosh a bit of zest sauce on, turn the heat to low, and cover the pan. While the salmon and spinach finish cooking (doesn't take long) mix up a bit more wasabi and soy sauce. Open up the pan in a couple of minutes and see if the salmon is done. If it isn't, cover the pan and wait a bit. If it is, plate it and pour the wasabi and soy sauce on it. Turn the heat off and stir the spinach and pan juices. Put the spinach on the plate with the salmon. If the pan juices seem thin and watery (the spinach loses a lot as it shrinks), turn the heat back on and reduce the juice. When it's a nice sauce consistency and quantity, pour it on the spinach and fish.

This makes a quick and tasty meal for one. I've expanded it for two (had to cook much of the spinach after removing the salmon, but it takes very little time) but haven't tried to make a larger quantity.

Posted June 29, 2007 11:54 AM by Anne Sheller

Mary Dell #74: I feel obliged to point out that one of the brutal Spanish colonisers of the Philippines was my great-grandfather. Since he had a reputation for being 'muy mujeriego', I've a feeling that I have unknown relatives in or around Zamboanga.

Posted June 29, 2007 11:56 AM by Fragano Ledgister

Kip, I don't get anywhere with the Russian comments, but the German comments are about the critter not being a brown bear, but a feldgrau bear, because brown was the Nazi uniform colour.

From the uniforms, it's plainly not late in the war. By 1944, there would be variations in the tunics, and different types of boot. Unless these soldiers were a selected parade detachment, which is very likely.

But the helmet decals and the shine of the buttons also bias me to an early or pre-war timing.

Incidentally, they are Heer (Army).

So what we likely have is a regimental mascot. The soldier on the right of the picture is an NCO. The soldier on the left, wearing the greatcoat, seems to be an officer, but it's hard to make out the rank insignia.

I reckon the unit could be identifiable--what German Army units, probably infantry, had a bear as a mascot? I'm not sure that it would be info you'd find on the web--it's the sort of thing that would be buried in a unit history.

Posted June 29, 2007 12:02 PM by Dave Bell

Greg at 110, I am getting unjustly earwormed. I don't know what song you're naaing, but my brain has managed to misread it as Batman, Manamana and the Doot-Doots, and a very brief Vindaloo. Please tell me what should be torturing my poor brain.

Posted June 29, 2007 12:10 PM by Diatryma

On another note, which properly belongs in Open Thread 86, but I hear things go pear-shaped as we near the kilocomment, so.

Biscuits.

Damn you all.

I made biscuits this morning. It took a supreme act of will not to make them last night after reading Open Thread 86. But I pulled up the Alton Brown recipe and made them this morning. They were very easy and fun to make, and delicious with butter and blackberry jam. And fried eggs. My husband also gives them a thumbs-up. He doesn't usually get breakfast cooked for him on Fridays because I have to be elsewhere at 7:45. But we both happily woke up for these.

I have a question, though, about buttermilk and buttermilk substitutes.

See, I don't buy buttermilk. Store-bought buttermilk tends to be that cultured stuff, not the butter-making by-product that originally got the name. Instead, I buy heavy cream. When a recipe calls for buttermilk, I measure twice as much cream into a screw top jar and shake it a lot. Usually the resulting butter goes into the same recipe as the buttermilk, which makes me wonder why the recipe didn't just call for heavy cream instead. I tend to do stuff like substitute 4 tbl heavy cream for the 2 tbl butter and 2 tbl milk in mac-n-cheese; this is why heavy cream doesn't go to waste much around our house.

But here's the thing. When a recipe that calls for buttermilk also calls for baking soda, baking powder, and salt, it's relying on the interaction between those and the buttermilk to make the bread rise. This is the case with these biscuits, or Diane Duane's "Peter's Mum's Soda Bread". And doubtless these recipes go back to times when buttermilk always meant "what's left after you make the butter." But... true buttermilk surely isn't as acidic as the supermarket cultured stuff or the milk-soured-with-vinegar substitute (which I used this morning since I was out of cream), is it? Doesn't less acidity mean less rising action? So maybe I *shouldn't* use true buttermilk in soda breads?

Opinions eagerly sought!

Posted June 29, 2007 12:12 PM by Nicole J. LeBoeuf-Little

We wait for morning,
hot, steam rising after rain,
green trees are glowing.

Outside the bluest
flower draws our waking eye,
such perfect colour.

I watch Mexican
roofers laying tarpaper
on the newest house.

A late breakfast is
the summer's finest pleasure,
tea makes me joyful.

I name this moment
the one that should never leave,
freeze now this second.

Posted June 29, 2007 12:15 PM by Fragano Ledgister

*Random*
We have searched in ever widening circles, but there are some items which we need which are just not available here, so today we must go to the nearest big city.

Traffic between Olympia and Seattle, and ohgodsaveusall, in Seattle, is nightmarish at the best of times, and today is not only the Friday before a major holiday, but also the Mariners are playing at home. Now, if we could leave in a half hour, things wouldn't be too bad, we could probably head home before three.

The dog's cable run just broke, and he's long gone. So, give it two hours before he gets home, on average.

This sucks.

Posted June 29, 2007 12:32 PM by JESR

Fragano @ 114... Let's not forget Richard Chavès's Lt. Colonel Paul Ironhorse in 1988's TV series War of the Worlds. He probably was the best thing in that show, which is why, for the second season, they got rid of him. Makes perfect sense.

Posted June 29, 2007 12:37 PM by Serge

Serge #122: Things do seem to work that way.

Posted June 29, 2007 12:39 PM by Fragano Ledgister

Nicole @ 119

You might be able to use diluted yogurt for the buttermilk, although the flavor is different. (Cookbooks sometimes have this kind of substitution listed.)

I've seen dehydrated buttermilk in the supermarket occasionally, with something like 4 packets each making 1 cup in the box. (There's supposed to be a bulk-pack version around, but I haven't seen it. Maybe I need to hunt around some more.)

Posted June 29, 2007 12:40 PM by P J Evans

At this risk of getting trounced by real food chemists, here's my cook's understanding:

Baking soda is straightforward alkali, combine it with an acid and you get a gaseous reaction that produces leavening in batters.

Baking powder is usually a combination of baking soda and a crystallized acid (not sure what), so adding any liquid will produce the leavening. Double acting baking powder adds a second kind of crystal that only reacts under heat, so it provides additional leavening during baking.

If you add baking soda _and_ baking powder to an acidic batter, I think you are supposed to cut the baking soda in half, at least that's the way I learned it. Otherwise there's too much alkali leftover and you get that funky taste when you eat the goods.

Real and cultured buttermilk contains lactic acid while vinegar is usually an acetic acid and lemon juice is a citric acid.

My experience has been that there is enough variation in the relative strengths of each kind of acid ingredient that a 1:1 substitution never really seems to work.

My rule of thumb is to make the following adjustments:

• lemon juice * 1.0
  
• vinegar * .75
  
• store buttermilk * 1.0
  
• real buttermilk * 1.0 + 1tsp lemon juice
  

Posted June 29, 2007 12:40 PM by Lance Weber

Strawberry shortcake, with biscuits, not those sponge things. Or one great big biscuit. Mmmmmm.

Posted June 29, 2007 12:45 PM by Tracie

Speaking of nourishment... When I was a mere lad, I found great pleasure in taking a bite out of an apple, putting some salt on the exposed surface before biting into that. Did anybody else ever do that? Or is this just one of the weird tastes of my youth, along with eating real butter by the trowel?

Posted June 29, 2007 12:47 PM by Serge

Nicole: In Europe, all buttermilk is cultured (mostly). In the States we use sweet cream to make butter. In other places (I don't know about Canada), they let it ferment a bit.

So, after making the butter, the buttermilk is slightly sour (it's adding those cultures which makes buttermilk for the store, otherwise what one has is skimmed milk).

And yes, the soda is supposed to react to the acids in the buttermilk to increase the fluffiness of the biscuits.

Posted June 29, 2007 12:47 PM by Terry Karney

People say, "when you multiply a recipe, don't multiply salt."
Why is this?

Posted June 29, 2007 12:54 PM by Erik Nelson

Terry @101:

I've only managed one that I thought did justice to the form:

Web over water
Steel spun by a human mind
For others to walk.

Posted June 29, 2007 12:56 PM by Lori Coulson

I have a vague memory of hearing that in the days before storebought buttermilk, they used clabbered milk, which I believe is more like crème fraîche than anything else. Or crema fresca, if you've got a decent Mexican grocery nearby. I don't know how the lack of acid would affect the rising, though.

Posted June 29, 2007 12:57 PM by TexAnne

Lee @ #54:
Susan, #48: I don't have a strong definition -- "any writer or actor who self-identifies as one" would do.

I ask because of the definitional problem which is already leading to confusion in the discussion. Self-identification isn’t a terribly useful basis – I mean, is there any reason you do not self-identify as Latina? You must have some concrete basis for assigning people as such.

For examples of the other problems:

Peter @ #69:
(I assume we're interested in English-language writing or media, otherwise it would be relatively easy to add, say, Mexican or Spanish movies.)

Spanish != Latino. Latino refers to Latin American – Central & South America.

Bruce @ #102:
I thought Willi Wachendon was black.

Being black or white or any variety of mestizo is orthogonal to being Latino or Hispanic, so this is irrelevant. Neither Latino nor Hispanic is a racial classification, though it’s certainly used with racist overtones by some people (not meaning you, Bruce).

Jim @#95
The Sferoj 4 anthology (the only one of that series I own, but there were ten or eleven volumes) has sf short stories from authors in a number of countries including Argentina, Spain, Venezuela, and Cuba translated into Esperanto; and I'm fairly sure one of Hartwell & Cramer's recent Year's Best SF anthologies had a story translated from Spanish, by two authors from Spain -- can't recall the title or many but it was a time travel story involving an incident in Spain's recent history.

From Spain means that by definition they are not Latino, though they are Hispanic. This is why I asked Lee to define her terms. Is she interested in sorting out:

People who write SF in Spanish?
Brownish-skinned people who speak Spanish?
People who speak Spanish even if they don’t write in it?
People with surnames of noticeably Hispanic origin?
People descended from same even if they don’t speak or write in Spanish?
etc.

I’m unclear how people on this thread are identifying Latino and/or Hispanic, so it’s hard to know who to include in the discussion. I'm also unclear how Lee identifies Latinos or Hispanics in fandom; @ #42, it looks like she might be considering it a racial classification:

Fandom reflects this; it's still a very whitebread community. More black people than there used to be -- but then, there are black SF characters on TV dating back to Lt. Uhura. Virtually no Latinos at all.

And one can determine this by a visual survey? What is the definitive visible requirement to be classified as Latino and/or Hispanic, when those are classifications based on geography and language?

So, a definition of terms at least for purposes of discussion would be useful.

Dave @ #84:
I generally dislike totting up lists like this; who knows what the person involved feels like?

It’s making me feel pretty squicky, gotta say.

Posted June 29, 2007 1:04 PM by Susan

Serge, I've never done that specifically, but it sounds like another version of the sweet + salty = delicious thing. Chocolate frosting on Ritz crackers, lemon curd on same, Krispy Kremes have that bit of salt, salt on canteloupe. I think the combination keeps your tongue from getting acclimated to the taste of either, so it's constantly a new and more delectable combination.

Posted June 29, 2007 1:09 PM by Diatryma

Diatryma @ 133... Thanks. I am quite relieved to know I wasn't totally deranged as a youth. Still, I'm glad I outgrew this because I dare not think what all that salt and butter would do to my legally-adult body.

Posted June 29, 2007 1:19 PM by Serge

#127: I remember seeing == maybe at the big San Jose flea market == stands selling slices of mango with salt.

Posted June 29, 2007 1:40 PM by Stefan Jones

Fragano @ 114:
I have to admit, I'd forgotten about Robert Beltrán.

On the other hand, I think his character was supposed to be Native American (albeit not from any specific present-day tribe/nation), rather than Latino. (Yes, I know that's not necessarily a clear distinction, particularly south of the US.)

If we go with Latino actors playing non-Latino characters, then there's Raul Julia (Frankenstein Unbound, Overdrawn at the Memory Bank), Jennifer Lopez (The Cell), Benjamin Bratt (Red Planet)[*], Emilio Estevez (Freejack), Charlie Sheen (The Arrival, Red Dawn), Raquel Welch (Fantastic Voyage), Rosario Dawson (Men in Black II), Rosanna DeSoto (Star Trek 6), Jimmy Smits (Star Wars II and III), and probably some others I can't be bothered Googling for...

Marcus Chong in The Matrix? (I don't know if Chong is Latino, and I don't know if his character "Tank" was supposed to be Latino...)

[*] Bratt did play a (secondary) Latino character in Demolition Man...

Posted June 29, 2007 1:45 PM by Peter Erwin

Another request; it seems like the day for it, here.

I've recently, finally, had the discussion with my husband about why he's so anti-SF, knowing how much I love it. He's fine with mainstream-type stuff, like the original Star Wars (same goes for fantasy: he enjoyed the LoTR movies), but he seems to labor under a delusion similar to CB's: that is, that most genre fiction is hackery. I agreed that there is hackery out there, but that it's no more than in any other field. The majority of stuff out there just isn't mind-blowingly great. So I asked him what it was he liked about Star Wars, and he answered that it was the the SF setting was really sort of incidental--that it was a good, classic story underneath, and that it didn't have to be "Long ago in a galaxy far, far away." I replied, one, that the setting was integral, as those events wouldn't have been possible in any other setting and two, regardless, that what he described could apply to all of my favorites. What I love about SF is how the setting can be used to explore deeper issues of what it means to be human, regardless of setting.

Anyway, all that is preamble to the second problem: several (more then seven, I believe) years ago, I made the ghastly mistake of offering him Heinlein's Job to read, not realizing that it would embody all of SF for him. He hasn't trusted my suggestions ever since. For my part, I enjoy the Biblical riff, but I understand thoroughly that I messed up, and ruined him for SF.

I'm hoping not for ever. He's agreed to try again, and I don't want to mess up this time. So I'm looking for suggestions for something to give him that will knock his socks off and become a new example to him of what SF is, or even better, get him to read more. He's not a huge fan of fiction in general. He reads a lot of biography and non-fiction, and he's a financial analyst. He's really reality-based. I tend to go for the more fantastical and literary, but I'm thinking he'd enjoy more hard science with some economics thrown in.

So, suggestions? My marriage may depend on it. *wink*

Posted June 29, 2007 1:57 PM by kouredios

Fragano Ledgister @#116:

Hooray for infamous ancestors! My great-great grandfather was a confederate general, and one of his forbears, a judge, was responsible for the martyrdom of a saint back in ye olden times. It's a bit odd to have the really interesting family stories also be uncomfortable or horrifying.

So, your fellow...babelfish tells me that "muy mujeriego" means "very mujeriego." Thanks, babelfish! Hint?

Posted June 29, 2007 2:03 PM by Mary Dell

Diatryma@118: Please tell me what should be torturing my poor brain.

Hm, well, further scientific research reveals that my brain had inadvertantly substituted "na"s for what was actually "do"s. So I should have actually type this:

doo DOO da do do, mortgage
do doo DOO do, mortgage

Sorry for the confusion. It's been probably a couple of decades since I've heard that actual song.

It was used in a commercial about a year ago. A guy was talking to a woman on what appeared to be their first date. He's talking about being a doctor, winning the lottery, and some other "good catch" stuff. She takes a sip of whatever drink they were selling and suddenly the camera pans back to the guy who is now saying "ma na ma na".

Anyway, the "ma na ma na" part was what got switched out for the word "mortgage", which, as I said, was a couple syllables short. But at least it started with an "m". Not sure how all the "doo"s got switch for "na"s.

Oh well.

I'm going to go watch that scientific research again now.

Posted June 29, 2007 2:07 PM by Greg London

Latino[*] characters in written SF:

Didn't L. Sprague de Camp write a series of stories set in a Brazilian-dominated future? Did any of those have prominent Latino/Hispanic characters?

[*] In the case where "Latino" includes Brazilians; Susan's schema (# 132) seemed to exclude non-Spanish-speaking Latin Americans...

Posted June 29, 2007 2:09 PM by Peter Erwin

kouredios @137:

Two possibilities: Dune by Frank Herbert (this is the first SF novel I read, and I was hooked).

Or, if short stories might be more his speed, an anthology called _The Science Fiction Hall of Fame_.

Posted June 29, 2007 2:12 PM by Lori Coulson

re de Camp: Yes, he did. It's why I know that ombrigado is Portuguese for thank you.

As I recall it was stories about the diplomatic corps.

Posted June 29, 2007 2:17 PM by Terry Karney

Clabbered milk has the same lactic acid thing going on as cultured buttermilk or genuine byproduct buttermilk left after making butter from ripened cream, so it would work with the baking soda.

Pasteurized cream won't ripen the way that raw cream or milk will -- the pasteurization kills the lactic-acid-producing bacteria. So making butter from pasteurized cream won't give you an acidic buttermilk. That's WHY storebought buttermilk is cultured skim or lowfat milk.

As to why you'd use butter and buttermilk instead of just using cream -- it's for texture. What happens when you cut butter into flour is that the flour coats and encapsulates little bits of butter into a gluten matrix. Butter is part fat, part milk solids, and part water, and when you bake it, the water turns into steam and gives lift to the biscuits, and as it evaporates, it leaves little pockets all through, making the biscuit flaky. (If you overwork the dough, the gluten toughens, and the steam can't lift the biscuits as high.) If you just use cream, you don't get the little encapsulated pockets, and so you don't get the flakiness.

And on an entirely different note, I wanted to mention my favorite haiku:

The morning glory today
Has taken my well-bucket;
I begged for water.

Posted June 29, 2007 2:18 PM by Rikibeth

I-87:
It's an Interstate Highway
That's