I am left gasping and speechless.

Posted August 7, 2007 11:15 PM by Paula Helm Murray

It's part of the policy of pre-emption obviously.

Posted August 7, 2007 11:40 PM by Larry

This part was my favorite:

What I find rather interesting is that Allen must believe, in some dim fashion, that people will actually buy this, and more than buy this, agree with it, which is to say that Allen believes that the average Floridan would think to himself or herself, "why, yes, when confronted with a park full of black men, a white man turning himself into some sort of ATM/suction device combo is an entirely rational response."

Posted August 7, 2007 11:47 PM by Lea

That was the part where I laughed so hard I started choking.

Posted August 7, 2007 11:50 PM by Teresa Nielsen Hayden

because, you know, predatory criminals just fade away when they see a middle-aged man giving a random stranger a blowjob.

Posted August 8, 2007 12:19 AM by julia

Why, why couldn't a full blown senator, or Karl Rove, have been caught doing this?

Posted August 8, 2007 1:20 AM by Stefan Jones

Har har, you said full blown.

Posted August 8, 2007 1:34 AM by ethan

because, you know, predatory criminals just fade away when they see a middle-aged man giving a random stranger a blowjob.

On average, I'm guessing they aren't going to stick around for the show.

Posted August 8, 2007 1:40 AM by Jesse

Wait, he tried to pay $20 to give a blow job?

His memoirs will be printed by PublishAmerica.

Posted August 8, 2007 1:50 AM by Dom

Ohmigod. Had to read the whole thing out loud to everyone in the house. I think I scared the dog.

I mean, I know when I feel like I"m in a risky neighborhood my first thought is "pizza money and a hummer."

Must go reassure the dog.

Posted August 8, 2007 2:19 AM by Madeleine Robins

I'm fond of the "get James Baker to handle a recount" line myself.

Posted August 8, 2007 2:19 AM by Linkmeister

Of course, we have only his word that he wasn't planning on taking on every guy there. How can you believe anything a slut like that would say? He was asking for it.

(Standard lack-of-verbal-and-facial-overtones-for-context-disclaimer: that was heavy-duty sarcasm).

Posted August 8, 2007 3:17 AM by Bruce Cohen (SpeakerToManagers)

He does have the Clinton defense in his favor: he didn't swallow.

Posted August 8, 2007 3:19 AM by Bruce Cohen (SpeakerToManagers)

Dom @ 9. Sweet; how innocent some people still are …

BTW, I've been trying to contact the Scalzi domain all afternoon (AEST) and it's unreachable. Possibly the attention is too much.

Posted August 8, 2007 3:54 AM by Epacris

*Dies*

I think the US Republican party is clearly well into post-1992 British Conservative party territory here. (For example ...)

Posted August 8, 2007 4:37 AM by Charlie Stross

Y'know, it's things like this which make me almost ashamed to be an Australian. Our politicians don't appear to be able to manage a decent sex scandal to save their lives, their careers, or even their reputations as Manly Men (TM). Of course, we do have the minor excuse that we've only been around for a bit over 100 years... nowhere near long enough to evolve the level of political and social doublethink required for something like that.

Meanwhile, I shall be bookmarking this article, for future reference when I'm in the mood to be amused by something.

Posted August 8, 2007 5:42 AM by Meg Thornton

Small mercies, Meg@#16.

Although there is always the grim spectre of Mr Downer and his fishnets ... and there was Ms Hanson and her little friend whose name escapes me.

I don't think it's that we don't have the scandals; more that as you say, we haven't evolved the kind of convoluted morals which might make us care. (Or, we might be too squeamish as a nation to contemplate our pollies in flagrente dilecto. I mean, the thought of the Prime Miniature ... ewwwww. Never mind.)

Posted August 8, 2007 6:17 AM by Vian

Well, there was Billy McMahon, and his tendency, on special occasions, to wear a little black dress; and John Grey Gorton's secretary's tendency to be on top of the job. Then there was Bob Hawke and the underpants incident. But yes.

Posted August 8, 2007 7:01 AM by Dave Luckett

What other sins could one use "I feared I was about to become a statistic!" as an excuse for? Let's have a list..

Posted August 8, 2007 7:46 AM by Alex

#16, #17, #18--Meg, Vian, and Dave Luckett

Maybe it's not because your politicians don't misbehave and get caught--maybe it's because they all know how thoroughly and comprehensively they'll be mocked if they try to say anything other than "Yes, I was fooling around and got caught. Next question? Anyone want to know where I stand on the budget?"

Posted August 8, 2007 8:40 AM by fidelio

[delurking again, possibly permanently]

There's something simultaneously wonderful and horrid about the fact that he's far more concerned about being involved in a gay sex scandal than appearing to be an irreducibly racist knucklehead.

Then again, I went to school in a commonwealth where we had more crackers than the Saltines factory. I knew guys who thought you could catch AIDS off a dirty toilet and that homosexuality was spread like influenza.

If Alberto Gonzales can keep his job, I'm not sure why this guy won't.

Posted August 8, 2007 9:05 AM by dlbowman76

It's one of the best laughs I've had in ages. Score another one for the party of family values!

Posted August 8, 2007 9:56 AM by Dave Weingart

Now there's a truly frightening thought: suppose people believe him!

Posted August 8, 2007 10:10 AM by Bruce Cohen (SpeakerToManagers)

Erm, yeah, my first thought was he offered $20 to give a blowjob?

Which sort of makes ya wonder what he-

since Dogs in Elk.

huh?

(skimming)

....

Whoah. A whole new low in messed up-edness.

That person shouldn't own dogs.

Posted August 8, 2007 10:25 AM by Greg London

16: Canada has existed as an independent nation somewhere between 140 and 25 years, depending on the measure used, and we've never had a problem coming up with amusing stories about who our politicians are sleeping with. Heck, Trudeau along might have been able to fill Exhibition Stadium with his exes.

Posted August 8, 2007 10:49 AM by James Nicoll

Last night's Daily Show was pretty good on this too, as exemplified by the title of their segment being "Drop and Give Me $20."

Posted August 8, 2007 10:52 AM by Chris Quinones

Hey Teresa,

I actually saw your comment on the MTA boards this morning and realized that 'hey, I worked with her!'

I interned at Tor in the Editorial Dept. two summers ago - I was the Indian girl in the band teeshirts (who was head over heels for Neil Gaiman and Robert Jordan). Now I'm working for McGraw-Hill while going to NYU for my masters. I just thought I'd pop into your blog and say Hello.

(Hello!)

- Preeti

Posted August 8, 2007 11:08 AM by Preeti Chhibber

Ah yes, my current residency state. I can categorically state that, yes, anything Carl Hiaasen or Dave Barry write is but a pale shadow of the freaky reality.

And yes, there will probably be people who'll accept his reasons, along the lines of "well, I would be afraid too, I wouldn't do what he did, but hey, people do crazy things when they're scared."

It's Florida.

Posted August 8, 2007 11:13 AM by Emma

My company just put in a browsing firewall and blocks the Whatever due to "Adult/Mature Content;Arts/Entertainment."

Hearing about this post I don't know whether to laugh or cry.

Posted August 8, 2007 11:23 AM by DaveL

As for the whole "He offered $20 to give one?" debate --

Happened at my university. A man and a woman set up a small prostitution operation in one of the dorms. Men would offer the male prostitute money to give him blowjobs. Seems like that constituted most of his business.

(There was some drama when the operation was busted. The woman was charged with a misdemeanor for prostitution; the man was charged with a felony for crimes against nature. It seemed a little unbalanced.)

I also see ads in the "Variations" section of the personal ads in the local independent paper for men seeking men to give oral pleasure to. It seems to be a somewhat common fetish, actually.

I cannot believe I am having this conversation on Making Light.

Posted August 8, 2007 11:27 AM by Caroline

This whole incident brings up a few questions. Well, many questions, but two that are most urgent.

Why are so many Republicans gay? Honestly. I suppose I could ask why are gay folk drawn to the Republican party but that would only bring up the question why would anyone be drawn to it... It must be the well tailored suits, the uncompromising rhetoric, and 1950's McCarthy-era fashion sense. It's like joining the political party for Captain America, for crynig out loud.

But more importantly, why is it a crime -- in the 'land of the free, home of the brave' -- to offer a guy money AND a blowjob? If ever there was a victimless crime...

Posted August 8, 2007 11:30 AM by Jason

16a: Not to mention the Gerda Munsinger affair, our colonial reply to the Profumo Affair.

Posted August 8, 2007 11:36 AM by James Nicoll

Jason @31: it also explains why they all seem to get hot under the collar about all those ManlyMan butch types in the military.

Sigh. Repression: just say no.

Posted August 8, 2007 11:39 AM by Charlie Stross

*boggles* *checks keyboard after snorting*

Posted August 8, 2007 11:41 AM by Another Damned Medievalist

Jason @ 31... It's like joining the political party for Captain America

No, no, no... It has been clearly established that Cap is a Democrat.

Posted August 8, 2007 11:43 AM by Serge

The French are supposed to do it all much better.

Posted August 8, 2007 11:52 AM by Dave Bell

#36: So, if I'm trapped in a park full of Frenchmen, I should offer one of them twenty EUROS and a blowjob?... I figure the exchange rate should add enough value there to make up for, er, um.. I'm so confused now.

Posted August 8, 2007 12:12 PM by mjfgates

Caroline @36: I'm glad you explained it - I was going to, but couldn't really word it well.

On a related note, to the "$20 AND a blowjob?" chorus - through my husband's line of work (he's a musician), we became socially acquainted with a number of "swinger" couples. Strangest quote I've ever heard one man say to another in a bar?

"If I buy you cocaine, will you sleep with my wife?"

This is why I leave my house; the world is where they keep the good stories.

Posted August 8, 2007 12:56 PM by Angelle

Dave Luckett (18): "Well, there was Billy McMahon, and his tendency, on special occasions, to wear a little black dress..."

I've seen footage of Rudi Giuliani dancing in bias-cut white satin and high heels.

(Lord Cornforth doesn't count. We were still part of the British Empire.)

Greg (24), the woman who wrote "Dogs in Elk" is a good dog owner. She was just dealing with the impossible task of getting two happy dogs to come out of their elk ribcages.

Preeti! (27) It's good to hear from you. Congratulations on the McGraw-Hill gig.

Your short list of Bollywood musicals vanished into the paper mulch on my desk. I kept hoping it would turn up, but it never did. I don't suppose you remember it?

Caroline (30), Don't worry about it. I've sat on convention panels with Chip Delany where he's very pithily explained that that very activity is his personal fave.

Jason (31), it's not that there are so many gay Republicans; it's the every one of them is an object of wonder.

Serge (35): and he's probably Jewish.

Posted August 8, 2007 2:02 PM by Teresa Nielsen Hayden

Serge at #35 : that sounds like old fashioned Pinko Propaganda to me! In all honesty, I couldn't think of a superhero that'd I'd peg as a neo-con. The closest that I could think of was J. Jonah Jamison.

But he's hardly a superhero (well, to most people).

Posted August 8, 2007 2:02 PM by Jason

Jason @ 31: There is a book, Homocon by Richard Goldstein (yes, that Richard Goldstein; the pundit who used to be a rock critic) which purports to explain the occasional gay attraction to fascism (I think he asserts a lot, but then, he always did); unfortunately it's probably out of print.

Posted August 8, 2007 2:02 PM by D.

Ack! And! Charlie Stross @ 33: Orcinus has a very sharp look at the Manly Man problem.

Posted August 8, 2007 2:09 PM by D.

Boggled again!

What I want to know is: where are the lawyers!? This hapless gentleman should have a phalanx of lawyers surrounding him, all saying in unison, "Shut up, Bob."

Posted August 8, 2007 2:44 PM by Lizzy L

Jason @ 40... Not only that, but, when the Iraq War's supporters were still making fun of the French, that greatly offended Cap.

Teresa @ 39... As for Cap being Jewish, who knows? There aren't many superheroes with that ethnic background. OK, there's Ben Grimm, but people probably say "That's funny, he doesn't look Jewish."

Posted August 8, 2007 2:48 PM by Serge

Thirteen Republican ways of looking
at a black man
( http://www.melicreview.com/archive/iss25/ebenbach%20poem.htm )

I

Along Twentieth, crossing Olney,
The only moving thing
Was the dangerously gay cock of a black man.

II

My mind was in three places,
Like a white person on a subway car
On which there are three black men.
So I offered one some money and a blow
job

III

The black man hunched through Center City crowds.
He was the necessary extra in our pantomime.
at any rate I felt a little necessary extra in these pants of mine, ifyouknowwhatImean!!

IV

A white man and a white woman
Are two.
A white man and a white woman and a black man
Are two.
Brought to you by Republicans investing in porn to protect family values from the black

V

I do not know which to prefer,
The effort to encounter
Or the bliss of denial,
The black man speaking
Or just after, when I go home again
and furiously masturbate

VI

Bars striped the long community gates
With barbaric ink.
The shadow of the black man
Crossed them, to and fro.
Our decisions
Etched automatically in the shadow
Probable cause.

yay, Guantanamo!!

VII

O thin souls of Philadelphia,
Why do you imagine golden birds?
Can you not see how the black man
Walks around the feet
Of the city about you?
i guess not huh, or you'd be pretty seriously worried about becoming statistics

VIII

I know noble accents
And lucid, inescapable rhythms;
the wicked wauw-wauw of the porn guitar
But I know, too,
That the black man is involved
In what I know.
or at least I'm hoping this twenty dollars will convince him to get involved

IX

When the black man turned the corner,
He marked the end
Of one of our many circles.

uh, like this I presume
(x)

X

At the sight of black children
Walking against sunlight
Even the whores of Limbaugh
Would cry out sharply.

XI

He rode through North Philadelphia
In a glass SUV.
Once, a fear pierced him,
In that he mistook
The shadow of his effects
For black men.

shit, imagine blowing the shadow of your effects. now that could get expensive!

XII

The Schuylkill is moving.
The black man must be drowning -

me

like, with his sperm!!
!! LOLROFLWANKKOPTER !!

XIII

It was evening all the way through this moment.
It was raining
And it was going to rain.
The black man sat
In the limbs of Cedar Street.

whoa... scary

Posted August 8, 2007 2:49 PM by bryan

I heard he once paid a scary looking muslim his life savings and offered to give him a rim job.

Posted August 8, 2007 2:55 PM by bryan

TNH, #39: I have Preeti's list of recommended Bollywood flicks; I've been carrying it in one of my GTD text files for a couple of years.

Posted August 8, 2007 3:01 PM by Patrick Nielsen Hayden

Teresa, I like the visual of a desk so deep in paper that it is composting at the bottom. Of all of the many reasons for a job change, was getting to walk away from the ever growing todo list a consideration? (I used to have to explain to managers about how there gets to be an event horizon on my task list -- I would even mark it with a blue line).

Posted August 8, 2007 3:17 PM by John Houghton

A product that may be useful to readers of Making Light and the Whatever -- for those who fail to remember the rule about not eating or drinking while reading these blogs.

Posted August 8, 2007 3:26 PM by John Houghton

John Houghton @ 49... Unotron sounds like a Decepticon. (The only funny moment in the Transformers movie was the Evil Robot that had turned into a police car on whose side one could see the motto 'to enslave and to destroy'.)

Posted August 8, 2007 3:33 PM by Serge

Teresa: That's a YOMANK if ever there was one. I haven't come across an excuse as contrived and obviously false since Richard Prior said he burned himself when he dipped cookies into milk.

(Hmm. One wonders if the loony right can turn this into a general principle -- white male homosexual behaviour is caused by fear of black men -- so we need to put black men on a reservation.)

Posted August 8, 2007 3:38 PM by Fragano Ledgister

Actually, Hummer Jackson would make a pretty good Blaxploitation name.

Posted August 8, 2007 4:11 PM by bryan

bryan @ 52... Possibly as a sequel to Action Jackson?

Posted August 8, 2007 4:36 PM by Serge

OF COURSE men pay to give blowjobs! If you're paying to GET one, you're paying a woman. Or just not shopping around.

And it is not a "fetish." It's about as vanilla as gay sex gets.

Doing it in a public restroom? Used to be hard to do it anywhere else. These days I think it qualifies as a fetish.

Posted August 8, 2007 5:26 PM by Xopher

Xopher #54: I was trying to figure out how to phrase that delicately. Good job.

Posted August 8, 2007 5:44 PM by ethan

Jason @ 31: But more importantly, why is it a crime [...] to offer a guy money AND a blowjob? If ever there was a victimless crime...

I don't care what other adults do by mutual consent. But a total stranger sticking his/her head into my restroom stall to solicit sexual activity, with or without payment, is committing a gross invasion of privacy and seriously-offensive rudeness.

Posted August 8, 2007 5:47 PM by Joel Polowin

Dave Bell@36: The French are supposed to do it all much better.

What ? The blowing, the offering of money, or the dealing with the whole situation once it blows ?

Oh... you meant all ?

Seriously though, I find the whole situation's lying on the edge of funny and sad.

Jason @31: But more importantly, why is it a crime [...] to offer a guy money AND a blowjob?

Incitement to prostitution ?

Posted August 8, 2007 6:38 PM by MD²

9:"Wait, he tried to pay $20 to give a blow job?

His memoirs will be printed by PublishAmerica."

The money flows toward the bottom

40: "In all honesty, I couldn't think of a superhero that'd I'd peg as a neo-con. The closest that I could think of was J. Jonah Jamison. "

Tony Stark / Iron Man - dry drunk, and titan of the military-industrial complex. If SAIC and BAE were made flesh and merged with George W. Bush and Dick Cheney, the result would be Tony Stark.

Posted August 8, 2007 6:42 PM by Jon H

Lizzy L @43: "This hapless gentleman should have a phalanx of lawyers surrounding him, all saying in unison, "Shut up, Bob." "

If he could keep his mouth shut he wouldn't be in this mess...

Posted August 8, 2007 6:46 PM by Jon H

xopher,

It's about as vanilla as gay sex gets.

i've heard that. & so it was very interesting to see in the linked thread that some apologists for allen (not for his excuse, but saying he was entrapped) unconsciously moved the blowjob offer to the police officer, just like in those photo-recall tests where the knife migrates to the hand of the black man.

because as long as he was just agreeing to get a blow job, he's not necessarily, like, all the way gay.

Posted August 8, 2007 7:00 PM by miriam beetle

My husband says that if someone offered him $20 and a blowjob, it'd be like Christmas. Then he'd wonder if he was on a Spike TV candid camera show.

John adds that the only thing that would make it better would be to throw in a cold IPA for afterwards.

We (the spouse and I) have spent a ridiculous amount of time discussing this case. My speculations have to do with performance: "Pardon me. If you'll let me go down on you, I'll give you $20 to critique my technique and style."

John just thinks it is a trick question, with the only sensible answer being "Go away and leave me alone", but the animal response is "SCORE! Money and Sex! YESSSS!!!"

Posted August 8, 2007 7:00 PM by Tania

Why is it a crime [...] to offer a guy money AND a blowjob?

"Hey, maybe I should just say I was trying to loan the guy a $20...?"

Lawyers, in unison: "Shut up, Bob."

Posted August 8, 2007 7:01 PM by Lizzy L

Jason @ 31: If the question is phrased, "Why are so many closeted homosexuals in the Republican Party?" the answer becomes clearer.

Caroline @ 30: I cannot believe I am having this conversation on Making Light.

I remember thinking the same thing when discussing Buffy slashfic. Don't worry, you get over it.

Posted August 8, 2007 7:06 PM by Aconite

John Houghton @ 49: Back in the day, when I worked for a printing company, we just used keyboard condoms. Printer's ink is nasty stuff.

Posted August 8, 2007 7:10 PM by Earl Cooley III

#56, on the rudeness of being solicited for sex in a public toilet:

I may not have a lot of experience crusing for sex in public toilets (I don't remember any, but I do take Ambien) - but I'd bet quite a lot of money that there was non-verbal communication involved prior to the solicitation. I can't really imagine that no Meaningful Looks were exchanged first. The cop probably got the Look prior to going into the stall and decided then and there to go for a solicitation or lewdness bust by returning it and inviting the verbal solicitation. I'm guessing. Hey, I really am guessing.

And as for rudeness, I'm also fairly sure that public toilets renowned for cruising are not that hard to spot, nor in places that most of us wind up being very often in the course of our normal lives. We might decry the urban blight that created that situation but I doubt this poor innocent cop had no idea what kind of dangerous, scary, blowjob-offering situation he was walking into. If I drive slowly down a road renowned for streetwalkers, complaining about how rude it is to get solicited is a bit disengenuous. I mean, I don't think there are hordes of horny gay Republicans in every public toilet. I've never been cruised in one. (Maybe everyone else has and I'm just not that cute.)

I feel like Dan Savage would have put this in a much better way than me, but oh well.

Anyway, rudeness of this fairly mild sort - an unwelcome but basically benign offer and some invasion of privacy without any threatening behaviour - doesn't seem to merit being arrested and publicly humiliated.

Not that I don't enjoy the schadenfreude, of course.

Posted August 8, 2007 9:13 PM by Jacob Davies

jacob,

but I'd bet quite a lot of money that there was non-verbal communication involved prior to the solicitation. I can't really imagine that no Meaningful Looks were exchanged first.

um. did you catch the feminism thread awhile back, where a long subthread was devoted to being approached by strangers, the gendered assumptions in being approached by strangeres, & how & how not to approach a woman unknown to you (especially if you are a man)?

well, to put it briefly, no, it isn't just people who "give meaningful looks" who are propositioned by strangers. don't assume the cop was asking for it.

now, solicitation might be a minor crime & maybe shouldn't be a crime at all. but when a police officer is the one being solicited, it is his job to treat it as a crime & act accordingly.

Posted August 8, 2007 9:53 PM by miriam beetle

Fragano @ 51: "(Hmm. One wonders if the loony right can turn this into a general principle -- white male homosexual behaviour is caused by fear of black men -- so we need to put black men on a reservation.)"

Tchah.

To think that you're spreading this around, when we all know that homosexuality is in fact caused by bipedal lizards in human form. As part of their global domination project, they've been running a pilot program using powerful orgone magnets, implanted in the microphone systems of baby monitors. The orgone magnets reverse orientation with at least a 10% success rate.

What...next you'll be telling me that Erich von Daniken was making it up too.

Posted August 8, 2007 11:05 PM by dlbowman76

dlbowman... Isn't the GOP the Party of Personal Responsibility? As for myself, being a member of the It's-Not-MY-Fault Party, I welcome our bipedal lizard overlords in human form. (Especially if one of them looks like Jane Badler.)

Posted August 8, 2007 11:43 PM by Serge

"bipedal lizards in human form"

"Tony Stark is a neocon"

waitasecond, I just realized all the fucked up shit that's been happening for the past couple years is part of a secret Skrull invasion.

Posted August 9, 2007 12:27 AM by bryan

And the Republican centipede drops another shoe.

Posted August 9, 2007 2:26 AM by Earl Cooley III

Lizzy L @ 43

What I want to know is: where are the lawyers!?
Pawing through their wallets for a $20.

bryan @ 45

Ah, the City of Brotherly Love, my home town! The kids I grew up with would be horrified at what has become of their beloved city. Come on now, $20 for a blowjob? Thats highway robbery!

ethan @ 55

I think this thread passed delicacy three stops back.

aconite @ 63

If the question is phrased, "Why are so many closeted homosexuals in the Republican Party?" the answer becomes clearer.
Who do you think owns the closets? It's the free market in action, see a need for closets to hide in, and rent them to the needy.

Posted August 9, 2007 3:26 AM by Bruce Cohen (SpeakerToManagers)

But more importantly, why is it a crime -- in the 'land of the free, home of the brave' -- to offer a guy money AND a blowjob? If ever there was a victimless crime...

Well, maybe he's really bad at it.

Posted August 9, 2007 4:41 AM by Joe McMahon

"And the Republican centipede drops another shoe."

Did they check the sleeping man's pocket for a 20? was the sleeping man stocky, and were there other sleepers in the area?

Posted August 9, 2007 4:57 AM by bryan

bryan (#45): Though you give link info, that poem seems designed for "Making Light"! (Literate Parody Central).

Posted August 9, 2007 10:56 AM by Faren Miller

Xopher @54, I'm sorry. "Fetish" was a very poorly chosen word. I was going for "It's a normal/common/usual thing to want to do, even to pay money to do."

Posted August 9, 2007 11:28 AM by Caroline

ethan 55: Thanks. Um, if you think the way I put it was delicate, what would be an INdelicate way? (You'd probably better ROT-13 your response.)

Caroline 75: OK. And how about 'desire'?

Posted August 9, 2007 12:00 PM by Xopher

Thank you, that's a much better word.

Posted August 9, 2007 4:19 PM by Caroline

Joe @ 72 : lol, literally.

And oh, that poor young republican! Sleeping off some drunkeness can create such an appetite for cock. Or something.

Posted August 9, 2007 5:09 PM by Jason

Hmm. I commented on this over at Scalzi's place, and it got held for moderation, and never posted. I didn't keep a copy, so I really have no idea what I said.

Odd.

Posted August 9, 2007 7:24 PM by Xopher

Xopher #76: Hm. Maybe the delicacy so much that was the issue. I guess it's more that I was relieved you said it so I didn't have to.

There was also a chance of getting a little too personal. Dirty!

Posted August 9, 2007 7:33 PM by ethan

Xopher@79:

That's odd. I don't have you in the moderation queue or the junk queue. Try posting again and if you get dropped into the moderation queue, send me an e-mail.

Posted August 9, 2007 7:49 PM by John Scalzi

ethan 80: What, you were afraid you'd say that lbh ybir fhpxvat pbpx, and that you'd engure fhpx fbzrbar ryfr'f pbpx guna unir lbhef fhpxrq, va zbfg pnfrf? I feel the same way. For me, it's a control thing.

NOTE: Don't decipher the above unless you're ready for some very frank talk about gay sex.

John 81: Thanks, I will, if I can remember what I was going to say. If not, it probably wasn't very important or original.

Posted August 9, 2007 8:33 PM by Xopher

Xopher, some things require more than rot13.

And, uh, maybe I might have said something like that.

Posted August 9, 2007 9:02 PM by ethan

Once upon a time, the story goes, Charlie Shively (founder/editor of Fag Rag) went with a friend to the men's room in the Boston Public Library; upon seeing the condition of the room, he exclaimed: "This is disgusting! Don't they know that people have sex here?!"

Posted August 9, 2007 10:46 PM by Seth Gordon

Does anyone know if Oral Roberts has weighed in on this one?

Posted August 10, 2007 2:46 AM by Bruce Cohen (SpeakerToManagers)

Bruce Cohen (STM): That shouldn't have cracked me up. That doesn't mean it didn't.

Posted August 10, 2007 3:14 AM by ethan

Faren @74:
bryan (#45): Though you give link info, that poem seems designed for "Making Light"! (Literate Parody Central).

Not till it's been LOLcatted. Thus:

I
Im in ur streetz
Why u no movin?
Gay cock is gay on dog. Do Not Want!

II
Thinkin of three thingz now
Lik cat in vetz
With three dogz.
Fido can has money? Fido can has blow job?

III
Dog walkin thru cat town
Needid for contrazt.
I needz him 2.

IV
Cat n cat
Iz two.
Cat n cat n dog
Iz two
(Cant stop thinkin about dogz)

V
What can I has more?
I can has dog?
Or I can has want?
Dog barkz iz like catnip
In sunlight i rememberz
And wantz again

VI
Outsidez mah windowz
(shiny lik iciklez)
Shadowz ov dogz walkin by
Lik fish in fishbowl.
Watchin them.
They are mah priznerz.
I can has.

I can go fishing.

VII
Oh thin kittehz at home
Why u think just ov birdies?
Don u see teh doggiez are walkin
Around ur treez and gardinz
And all ur bukkitz?

Or u can has statistic status.

VIII
I can miaow
An purr in mah pleazurez
Or caturwaul in teh nitez,
But i knoe
Doggiez mak noizes
I knoe them
O mak them for me, doggie.

IX
When the diggie turnz
He markz the endz
Ov mah cirklez.

Like dis:
(x)

X
I saw a puppy
Walkin in sunlight.
Even a kitteh
Purz for teh puppiez

XI
I walkz in mah citiez
On treez and on walltopz
An I am afraid.
I seez teh ground
And think of the doggiez
Az if they are there.

Lookz lik lotta doggiez 2 me. (Purz)

XII
Riverz are flowin
Doggiez can dog paddle

me

Ah paddle me doggie,
I guess I do want.

XIII
Sunlight is gone today
Rainin all day
More rain comin.
Doggie sitz
Good boy.

(I am on stolen bandwith, so now I bow out for the moment.)

Posted August 10, 2007 4:34 AM by abi

ethan @ 86

I know; I should be ashamed of taking such a cheap shot. But I was laughing too hard to stop myself.

abi,

The Cat Woman returns. Welcome back; we love you almost as much for your LOLcatz as for yourself.

Posted August 10, 2007 9:35 AM by Bruce Cohen (SpeakerToManagers)

Abi #87: Please send some of that Dutch rain. (A bottle of oude genever wouldn't be a bad idea either....)

Posted August 10, 2007 2:22 PM by Fragano Ledgister

"Lik cat in vetz / With three dogz"

Abi, I salute you. This is the first lolcat thing I ever thought was worthwhile - nay, necessary.

John (#48): If you like the composting desk, here is a picture of it.

Posted August 11, 2007 4:07 PM by Hob

There are some really odd assumptions going on in the discussion of this incident. The first is that nobody actually enjoys giving blow-jobs. Well, unless they're gay and really subby, maybe. I think this is partly to do with the fact that gay men are a bit more likely than the general population to talk openly about their sexual practices (eg Delany as cited by Teresa at 39, Xopher at 54 and 82).

It's also partly to do with the way that penetration is gendered and politicized. I think this is highly analogous to the assumption that women don't actually enjoy sex, but they may be prepared to put up with it in exchange for love (if they are respectable) or financial security (if less so). Giving a blowjob is feminine (and the automatic connections to both "gay" and "bottom" are a little disturbing), and therefore unpleasant or even humiliating. No thanks.

The other one is about the power dynamics in a relationship between a john and a prostitute. I enjoy lots of sexual acts, both as the doer and as the recipient of attention. That absolutely does not mean that I want random strangers to offer me money to participate in those sexual acts. I agree with Joel at 56 and miriam at 66, and I think that point is important enough to be a bit priggish about all the nudge-nudge-wink-wink comments about "a blowjob and cash, who could complain?"

Now, it's true that the cop was not in fact a naive or vulnerable young man, but by going undercover he was effectively posing as such. The problem with Allen is not that he has homosexual leanings (I'm resisting reopening the old debate about whether homophobia is an appropriate political weapon when it's used against icky Republicans). The problem is that he was being a sexual predator towards someone he thought had less power than him. Probably some of that power differential is about race, too. And yes, he's still just as much a predator if he wanted to give a blowjob as if he had wanted to receive one.

Posted August 12, 2007 3:16 AM by Individ-ewe-al

#24 Greg, I guess I shouldn't own dogs either, because I found the whole thing hilarious and very true to my own dog-owning experience. Nothing nearly that spectacular, but mine like to do things like eat live cicadas, bring home long strings of bird guts and squirrel jerky peeled off the road, and go ballistic upon encountering escaped pet ferrets (all of this, you understand, ON LEASH).

PNH #47 and/or Preeti: share??

#65 Jacob Davies: And as for rudeness, I'm also fairly sure that public toilets renowned for cruising are not that hard to spot, nor in places that most of us wind up being very often in the course of our normal lives.

You mean like the one in the classroom building at the University of Georgia, right across the sidewalk from the main library? (this was Back in The Day when I was an undergrad; current mileage may vary)

p.s. sorry to be so late to the party but we just got back from vacation. In Boston! With whales!! Also we got to see 2 firetrucks and a bunch of firemen, but luckily the hotel wasn't really on fire.

Posted August 12, 2007 2:57 PM by Lila

Addendum, 99% OT: how the dogs got into the elk. From the dogs' owner, as part of her correspondence with an MIT student who recreated the scene in pumpkin format.

Posted August 12, 2007 3:22 PM by Lila

Lila (92):
This being Making Light, some of us might find ourselves traveling with similar companions. Any hints on how to successfully vacation with whales? How to find whale-friendly motels, how to keep them occupied and hydrated on long drives? And how on earth do you keep them from fogging up the windows?
Were the firetrucks and firemen part of the "keep the whales hydrated" routine?
Will they share a bukket, or do they fight and therefor need to each have their own bukket? And what is the bukket etiquette at all-you-can-eat fish resaurants?

Posted August 12, 2007 4:13 PM by John Houghton

e

Posted August 12, 2007 4:15 PM by John Houghton

John Houghton @ #96, the rule for whales is similar to the rule for 500-lb. gorillas: the answer to pretty much any question is "Whatever the whales want."

These particular whales, for example, wanted to have brunch in the vicinity of Stellwagen Bank, and did not object to being watched and photographed by tourists while they did so. The firemen were an entirely separate issue, as the whales were being kept hydrated by the Atlantic Ocean. The all-you-can-eat plankton bar at the Bank did not require the use of bukkets, as each whale brought his/her own built-in strainer.

Posted August 12, 2007 5:07 PM by Lila

How do you get two whales in a Mini?

Drive down the M4 frwom lhondon.

Posted August 13, 2007 10:23 AM by Paul A.

It is so expensive to feed them that you have to feed them at a bank? Whales aren't good pets for the ill-prepared, are they?

Posted August 13, 2007 10:54 AM by John Houghton

Individ-ewe-al @ 91: I think you're very right. Clearly I thought that it was at least unusual to really enjoy giving, as evidenced by the fact that I reached for the word "fetish." (I'm disappointed in myself that I thought that, but thank Xopher for pointing it out.)

Lila @ 92 -- friend of mine, working the information desk at the university student center, got a phone call one day. In all apparent seriousness, the man on the other end reminisced (non-graphically) about how you used to be able to have great anonymous sex in the library men's rooms when he was in school there, and asked if it was still like that. My friend said politely "I'm sorry, I don't know anything about that, sir." To which the guy said "Oh, okay, thanks anyway" -- still very politely -- and hung up.

If it was a prank call or someone trying to get his jollies, then it was really bizarre, because it was absolutely matter-of-fact and not graphic at all. Maybe he really just wanted to know. Not the kind of thing I'd consult the information desk for, though.

Tangential information desk story! I went to the information desk of the university where I am at graduate school. (It's a very preppy sort of university, if a university can be preppy, which may go some way towards explaining what happened next.) I asked the fellow at the desk "Is there a notary public on campus?" He stared at me and said "Are you asking whether there's a Banana Republic on campus?"

Posted August 13, 2007 12:06 PM by Caroline

John Houghton @ 98... It is so expensive to feed them that you have to feed them at a bank?

A sperm whale bank?

Posted August 13, 2007 12:09 PM by Serge

Serge:
No, Humpback.

Posted August 13, 2007 12:47 PM by John Houghton

Lila@99: Greg, I guess I shouldn't own dogs either,

I've had to deal with up to twenty dogs at a time for a part time job.

I have never had a situation get to the point that I could not control a dog under my stead. If you can imagine four or five big dogs getting into a real fur and fang fight, I've always been able to put a stop to it quickly, and without getting bitten. The fights were sparked by everything from an attempt to establish a new pecking order, to a fight over food, to a pack mentality attacking a cat or bird or something.

No, I've never had a dog crawl into an elk carcass. But getting the dog out of the elk would not be a problem either.

Perhaps I'm missing some important information regarding the situation. But what came to mind immediately are the people I've run into who let their dogs dominate them to the point that they've been bitten a number of times, and then they have to euthanize the dog because they can't establish themselves as alpha.

Most dog training is training the owner. And one of the tests is to be able to feed a dog a bowl of food, and then be able to take the food away while the dog is eating it. If the dog so much as growls at the owner when this happens, then there is a potential for people getting bitten and dogs getting euthanized.

That's what came to mind for me anyway.

Posted August 13, 2007 1:12 PM by Greg London

gar. that should be Lila@92.

Posted August 13, 2007 1:13 PM by Greg London

Hm, now I'm wondering if I imagined an attack when one never actually happened....

Jake nearly took my friends arm off.

Ah that would be a no.

Posted August 13, 2007 1:18 PM by Greg London

The whole whales subthread is reminding me of of one of the funniest books on my children's bookshelves: Dear Greenpeace, by Simon James. In it, a girl finds a blue whale in the pond in her front garden and embarks on a correspondence with an increasingly baffled Greenpeace activist about its care and feeding.

"Dear Emily,
I really must emphasise to you quite strongly now that there is no possibility of a whale in your pond..."

I read it to my son on the bus home from the bookstore the day we bought it, and kept hearing stifled giggles from the seat behind us as the other passengers listened in.

Posted August 13, 2007 3:18 PM by abi

abi (105):
Mislabeled as fiction, I'll bet. Humph.

Posted August 13, 2007 4:23 PM by John Houghton

question from serge: "A sperm whale bank?"

answer from houghton:
"No, Humpback."

note from bryan: Well surely with all the humping some sperm must be produced. Don't tell me it's a dry humpback.

Posted August 20, 2007 8:10 AM by bryan

Seems there's a lot of this going around. From Talking Points Memo:

Move Over, Alberto

It's a pretty short list of headlines that could knock Alberto Gonzales' resignation to second tier status. But the arrest--and guilty plea--of a firebrand conservative U.S. senator for lewd homosexual conduct in a public restroom definitely makes the list.

Roll Call has all the sordid details about Sen. Larry Craig's conviction (although traffic to the site is heavy at the moment). While the ins and outs of public restroom trysts, with an apparent language and protocol all its own, may be titillating, this detail about old run-of-the-mill abuse of power caught my eye:

At one point during the interview, Craig handed the plainclothes sergeant who arrested him a business card that identified him as a U.S. Senator and said, “What do you think about that?” the report states.

Nice touch. Bet that made quite an impression.

Posted August 27, 2007 8:13 PM by James D. Macdonald

In a universe with perfect comedy timing, the officer would have responded:

"Nice. Think you'll use them all up by January 2009?"

Or:

"Hey, can you sign that for me? I bet it'll get my a few hundred bucks on eBay after this comes out."

Posted August 28, 2007 12:01 AM by Stefan Jones

Senator: What do you think about that?
Officer: I think I'm going to be SO FAMOUS.

Posted August 28, 2007 12:47 AM by ethan