At last, a Current thread!

(Waits for thrown vegetables from the direction of Hoboken)

Posted October 9, 2007 11:16 AM by Dan Layman-Kennedy

I thought currants were fruit rather than vegetables.

Never mind.

Posted October 9, 2007 11:19 AM by Jakob

Ripe currants can be very tasty fresh.

Posted October 9, 2007 11:22 AM by P J Evans

*stretching, scratching, swings tail*

Ah, that's better! Thank you.

Posted October 9, 2007 11:27 AM by Lizzy L

You keep it up, Abi, and I'll have to buy the DVD of Dragonheart.

Posted October 9, 2007 11:27 AM by Serge

Serge, step away from the cheese.

Walk out of the store. Do not purchase anything.

Posted October 9, 2007 11:32 AM by ethan

Jakob: No no no. 93 designates "Love is the Law, Love under Will"; and everyone knows that it takes more willpower to eat your vegetables than fruits. QED.

Posted October 9, 2007 11:33 AM by Dan Layman-Kennedy

Has anyone pointed out lately that "Fragano Ledgister" scans fairly nicely to Ta-ra-ra-Boom-de-ay? It would make a great campaign song were he to run for public office.

I must have too much time on my hands....

Posted October 9, 2007 11:35 AM by Earl Cooley III

Does anyone here have any familiarity with the British Museum/Uni. Texas Press 'World of Myths/The Legendary Past' series? I've been looking at the collected hardbacks for a while, as I don't really have anything on the major myth collections, and was hoping these would be a good basic set.

Posted October 9, 2007 11:45 AM by Jakob

Continued from end of previous Open Thread. In response to this poem, I told Abi I loved it but wanted to see it end with a final couplet that says something about the ongoing need to declutter my house. Or have my dragon-loving 15-year-old clean her room.

She offered:
But even we, when overwhelmed with stuff,
Must tidy up at times. Enough's enough!

That's going up on the refrigerator door this evening, with proper attribution, of course. Thanks much.

Posted October 9, 2007 11:51 AM by OtterB

ethan @ 6... Humph... Your comment only makes me want to buy the DVD of Dragonslayer. Now THAT is cheese.

Posted October 9, 2007 11:55 AM by Serge

Earl Cooley III #8: I will run, for the border.

Posted October 9, 2007 12:04 PM by Fragano Ledgister

Earl #8: (apologies to Fragano)

There was a man, Fragano L
Who'd come comment on threads for a spell
He'd quote Locke in a comment
Write abi a sonnet
and end with a new villanelle

Posted October 9, 2007 12:09 PM by albatross

Agh. What do you call an earworm crossed with an intriguing name? Because Earl just set one off. Fascinating how a very well-worn neural track combined with a unique set of syllables starts consuming so many background cycles.

Posted October 9, 2007 12:22 PM by Joe McMahon

Serge #11: OK! OK! I take it back! For the love of God, I take it back!

Posted October 9, 2007 12:23 PM by ethan

Fragano #12: The border, you say?

(Cue big band)

South of the border
down where poets play
writing a rhyming line
and drinking wine
(or Appleton if he may)
But up here we wonder
why couldn't he stay?
Fragano Ledgister -
your poems display!

Posted October 9, 2007 12:27 PM by Jakob

I missed Eureka's season finale last week. Did someone record it? Say you did. Please.

Posted October 9, 2007 12:28 PM by Serge

OtterB, thanks for asking Abi for the alternate ending, and Abi, many thanks for providing it. This will be on my fridge tonight, too.

Posted October 9, 2007 12:30 PM by R. M. Koske

Serge @ 17
If that was the two-parter ... I watched it Sunday afternoon. Things are left hanging (although Stark seems to be getting his personal life back together and becoming really human). I'd say more, but it requires Revealing Plot.

Posted October 9, 2007 12:37 PM by P J Evans

R.M.Koske @ 18... Abi, many thanks for providing it. This will be on my fridge tonight

Watch out for excessive accumulation of rime on the rhyme otherwise you'll have to thaw the whole thing out.

Posted October 9, 2007 12:39 PM by Serge

albatross & Jakob:

What have I done, that you should hurt me thus?
I did not think to injure one poor soul
and yet my words, as they swing past the pole,
seem to occasion merriment and fuss.
I'd not say anything (rather I'd cuss)
because in time I see my dearest goal
is to play here a better, purer role;
to every minus add a double plus.
But now, I have to turn from duller work
to thank you for your efforts at rhymed verse
and show I'm no foul spirit nor mooncalf.
A challenge of this sort I cannot shirk;
I'd write much better, but I fear I'm worse,
and smile discreetly when others might laugh.

Posted October 9, 2007 12:43 PM by Fragano Ledgister

ethan @ 15.. You caught me in time. I was about to buy the two Dungeon and Dragon movies.

Posted October 9, 2007 12:45 PM by Serge

Fragano #21: 'Doggerel' I'd have accepted, but words that 'hurt you thus'? Sir, 'twas not my intent.

Posted October 9, 2007 12:50 PM by Jakob

P J Evans @ 19... That's the two-parter, yes. I did see the first part. You wouldn't happen to have Part Two, would you?

Stark becoming human? What a concept. Heck, we had tough-girl Jo dream of Fargo as Zorro protecting her virtue from Stark as the evil landowner. So, why not that?

Posted October 9, 2007 12:50 PM by Serge

Serge, I was watching over at a friend's house, where it was recorded on the cable-system thing. I have no idea how to save or transfer from there.

Posted October 9, 2007 1:20 PM by P J Evans

PJ @ 25... There may be a way to transfer a recording from a DVR to TiVO to a disk, but I don't have either device. Maybe someone reading this could tell us. Anyway, if it's to much of a hassle, I'll just have to keep an eye on the SciFi Channel's schedule in case they repeat it. Speaking of their schedule, did you know that this weekend they'll show something called Wraiths of Roanoke, starring... Adrian Paul.

Posted October 9, 2007 1:32 PM by Serge

Ta ra ra boom de ay
Fragano Legister
shows no wish to bang
the political gong.

But if he should enter a
gubernatorial
contest--he'd sure have
one hell of a song.

Posted October 9, 2007 1:38 PM by Sarah S

Reviewing the WW I discussion in the other thread prompts me to point out that von Trapp's WW I U-boat memoirs have finally been translated into English by one of his great*granddaughters. Odd factoid: his first wife was the granddaughter of the British inventor of the torpedo.

* not sure how many "great"s involved here

Posted October 9, 2007 1:52 PM by C. Wingate

jakob #9:

Do you mean "looking at" in the sense of browsing them on someone's shelves, or in the sense of seeing it at Amazon?

'Cause if it's the latter:

I've got three of them in paperback, bought a couple of UT Press sales ago, on spec, as it were, in case I needed some nice myths (with pictures) for some future fantasy or other. (Serial-number filing being all the rage.)

They're 80 pp each, have b&w illustrations, are in a style that reminds me a bit of Bulfinch and other purveyors of Myth.

Posted October 9, 2007 2:02 PM by joann

Greg L from previous thread:

Thanks for the whole time chart for Getting Stuff Cold.

Once again you guys have managed to floor me with the variety of things that it would never occur to me could be found on Wikipedia, but which are.

(How did I miss that mythbusters episode? Some of the others I've seen like three times.)

Posted October 9, 2007 2:05 PM by joann

joann @ 30... How did I miss that mythbusters episode?

The concrete mixer's grand finale is now part of their show's opening credits. One of my favorites is the one where they built a rocket using technology available during the Civil War.

Posted October 9, 2007 2:14 PM by Serge

In #14 Joe McMahon writes:

Agh. What do you call an earworm crossed with an intriguing name? Because Earl just set one off. Fascinating how a very well-worn neural track combined with a unique set of syllables starts consuming so many background cycles.

The well-known example of paradimethylaminobenzaldehyde was first pointed out by Isaac Asimov.

(Tip o' the hat to Mike Van Pelt for the quote.)

Posted October 9, 2007 2:16 PM by Bill Higgins-- Beam Jockey

Lurkers as dragons, then ?

Posted October 9, 2007 2:26 PM by yabonn

Dragons, shamgons, eh?
silent readers lurk, backlit
fluorosperic green

Posted October 9, 2007 2:38 PM by albatross

Jakob #23: I needed something that would rhyme with 'plus'. It also provided the 'fake-wounded' note that I wanted. I wasn't truly hurt, I assure you.

Sarah S #27: If I ever seek public office, I'll think of you as my songwriter, but you'll have to improve your spelling!

Posted October 9, 2007 3:12 PM by Fragano Ledgister

Serge #31:

actually I was talking about the time-to-freeze one, not the concrete mixer.

But speaking of exploding concrete mixers, has anyone else been watching "Build It Bigger"? The last episode Mr Tivo grabbed for us involved an exploding concrete nozzle, which we got to watch replay in slo-mo while a rock as big as the Ritz tried (and failed) to come out the end. (It came out the side instead.)

Posted October 9, 2007 3:14 PM by joann

Excuse me, in #36 I meant "time-to-chill". I've already proven that frozen cokes are Not Good.

Posted October 9, 2007 3:16 PM by joann

#17: Try http://www.scifi.com/eureka/video/index.php to watch videos of recent episodes on your computer. Not the best way, but better than nothing.

Posted October 9, 2007 3:16 PM by Larry Lennhoff

Serge @ 22

No, no that's cheese whiz

Posted October 9, 2007 3:21 PM by Bruce Cohen (SpeakerToManagers)

Fragano #35

Oy gevalt!

I'm sorry!!! And, as is seemingly inevitable, I misspell your name within 24 hours of kvetching about people who can't spell mine!

Posted October 9, 2007 3:22 PM by Sarah S

Larry Lennhoff @ 35... I had forgotten about that possibility. Thanks for the reminder.

Posted October 9, 2007 3:26 PM by Serge

Joann @ 36.. I wonder if the MythBusters ever tried to blow up a frozen Coke. They did blow up a few lava lamps.

As for "build it bigger", that sounds interesting. Very much so.

Posted October 9, 2007 3:28 PM by Serge

I notice today's Snopes has a Mythbusters-style video clip on it. It doesn't have the same, er, visual panache, though.

Posted October 9, 2007 3:28 PM by C. Wingate

Help!

Maia is having troubles with school, and my ability to help seems, at present, to be a tad less than ideal.

She needs online articles (preferably journal articles) which discuss "occupation based practice" (related to Occupational Therapy).

This is, of course, a term of art (it's an old use of occupation; what we might call today activity; not a job/employment).

If it is about work with horses that would be even better.

When I'm done/she's got something usable, I can explain some of the problems, but now I have to dive back into my searches.

Thanks.

Posted October 9, 2007 4:00 PM by Terry Karney

Checking back...rereading Serge's #22...wait, what? There are two of those?!?

Yeesh.

Posted October 9, 2007 4:01 PM by ethan

Terry Karney #44 Try NARHA, the North American Riding for the Handicapped Association, here They have some resources including this pdf on research written by an OT that might give her some starting points

Posted October 9, 2007 4:11 PM by OtterB

ethan @ 45... There was indeed a theatrical D&D movie, in 2001, I think. I never saw it even though it had Jeremy Irons in it. There was a later D&D movie that went straight to the SciFi Channel. Sans Jeremy, alas. At least the elf girl was cute, but the dragon had moth-eaten holes in its wings.

Posted October 9, 2007 4:19 PM by Serge

Terry, I haven't found anything on horses, but:

Price P, Miner S.
Occupation emerges in the process of therapy.
American Journal of Occup Ther. 2007 Jul-Aug;61(4):441-50.

Segal R, Hinojosa J.
The activity setting of homework: an analysis of three cases and implications for occupational therapy.
Am J Occup Ther. 2006 Jan-Feb;60(1):50-9.

Chan J, Spencer J.
Adaptation to hand injury: an evolving experience.
Am J Occup Ther. 2004 Mar-Apr;58(2):128-39.

Occupation by design: dimensions, therapeutic power, and creative process.
Am J Occup Ther. 2001 May-Jun;55(3):249-59.

those at least sound interesting. Pubmed is my friend.

Posted October 9, 2007 4:23 PM by Sisuile

joann @37: Excuse me, in #36 I meant "time-to-chill". I've already proven that frozen cokes are Not Good.

Actually, frozen cokes are Good, provided you make them without freezing them in the (about-to-be-)ex-can, thereby creating a gods-awful mess in the freezer.

(Admittedly, I'm thinking more "slushy" stage than "cokesicle" stage. But the shrapnel-and-coke-everywhere stage is Right Out.)

Posted October 9, 2007 4:24 PM by Betsey Langan

Oops, bad link to research pdf in #46, should be www.narha.org/PDFfiles/research.pdf

Posted October 9, 2007 4:27 PM by OtterB

Not my field, Terry, but I did a search on MedLine and found several articles on "hippotherapy," for what it's worth. Also found these, which I include as examples:

Snider, L. "Horseback riding as therapy for children with cerebral palsy: is there evidence of its effectiveness?" Physical & Occupational Therapy In Pediatrics 27.2 (2007)5-23.

Meregillano G. "Hippotherapy." Physical medicine and rehabilitation clinics of North America 15.4 (2004): 843-54.

Apologies for the wonky formatting--I'm typing in a hurry. If you don't have access to MedLine or its EBSCO equivalent, let me know; I can probably email you a couple of fulltext articles.

Posted October 9, 2007 4:29 PM by Mary Frances

Sarah S #40: It happens, what can I say?

Posted October 9, 2007 4:30 PM by Fragano Ledgister

Some place you folks have here. Just browsing through on a recommendation and love the civil tone.

Posted October 9, 2007 4:33 PM by suralc

(Here's hoping suralc doesn't look too closely at the other active threads...)

Posted October 9, 2007 4:37 PM by ethan

ethan - I'm new to blogs, so my experience is limited. But from what I've observed, there is a general level of respect , regardless of opposing views, shown by commenters.

I just finished reading "Great Political Blog Posts of Our Time " and the comments, and if ever there were a post ripe for flame, that was it.

Either the proprietors have gifted hands, or people here have decided that honest discourse is preferable to some of the, well, shite I have seen elsewhere. Or both.

And Bravo Ezra!

Posted October 9, 2007 4:46 PM by suralc

suralc: I think it's "both."

Welcome!

Posted October 9, 2007 4:54 PM by ethan

Mary Frances: I understand about the not your line. If you could send a full-text of the former (my.name at gmail.com) that might help.

Things are less hectic (for the moment). The problem is USC has a terrible search engine for journals (Ovid. It might be swell, but I suspect it takes lots of training, which they don't give; so far as I can tell it doesn't take boolean modifiers. Maia says you have to create a search and then use secondary limiters to reduce the returns. The limiters [so far as I am concerned] aren't counterintuitive, they are anti-intuitive. I've been able to reduce the 10533 returns to zero, but nothing in between).

But the competition for her time (today) is gone, so I can work at a, slightly, slower pace.

Back to the trenches.

Posted October 9, 2007 4:56 PM by Terry Karney

suralc @55:
Either the proprietors have gifted hands, or people here have decided that honest discourse is preferable to some of the, well, shite I have seen elsewhere. Or both.

Both. You can't have it any other way; the absence of one will break the spirit of the other.

But it's a virtuous spiral, too. The community is self-sustaining when the principals are away, because we agree - to a large extent - with the values with which they shepherd the community. That's why we're here.

Welcome, by the way. You don't, by any chance, write poetry? Sonnets? Villanelles?* Pantoums? That sort of thing?

-----
* All the regulars are now rolling their eyes. There goes Abi, recruiting for the Making Light Company of Versifiers and Doggerel-Smiths again. But I like new poets!

Posted October 9, 2007 5:01 PM by abi

Joann @ 29: Thanks! I'd just seen it through a bookshop window, and from the descriptions I found online I couldn't tell how academic the texts were.

Continuing the previous WWI threads: I assume that the argument that the US's entry prolonged the war assumes that the Central Powers would have won otherwise?

Posted October 9, 2007 5:04 PM by Jakob

suralc: We have our flaws. There have been, not completely wrong, accusations of "groupthink"

I think (just me) it's a case of, mostly, likeminded people reacting to things they disagree with.

By itself that's not so bad; but this is a discontinous medium, so a lot of disagreement can happen at once.

If the recipient's back gets up, well it can get heated (cf. the post you praised).

But it's one of the more pleasant places to get into heated discussion on the web.

Posted October 9, 2007 5:13 PM by Terry Karney

Abi... There goes Abi, recruiting for the Making Light Company of Versifiers and Doggerel-Smiths again.

Watch it, suralc. Abi is a rhyminal mastermind.

Posted October 9, 2007 5:16 PM by Serge

As a longtime lurker (who reads nearly everything, and doesn't add much), I'll submit a bit of doggerel, with a nod to yabonn @ 33, who gave me the thought.

We lurkers are dragons
(or so we are told),
So circle the wagons--
We're here for the gold.

But can they be taken,
these coins cast from thought?
Does wisdom awaken,
or can it be caught?

I don't know the answers,
but have high regards
for the grand versomancers:
the Making Light Bards.

Posted October 9, 2007 5:18 PM by alsafi

I'd rather be a dragon with a flagon full of ale than a Hobbit with a habit of slurping beer from a pail.

Posted October 9, 2007 5:24 PM by Steve C.

alsafi #62: Nicely done!

Posted October 9, 2007 5:25 PM by Fragano Ledgister

I'd rather be a dragoon by a blue lagoon, or maybe a tycoon landing on the blue Moon.

Posted October 9, 2007 5:29 PM by Serge

Terry Karney@57: By now you've gotten the email with the full article citation but NOT the full text. Again, my apologies. Silly me: I thought if the citation was in "Medline FullText," that meant full text was available. And when I tried through the journal link or secondary databases, the "fulltext" function was down.

I'm sorry. I tried to help--I know how much fun (not) it is when you are struggling with a deadline and a recalcitrant (or impossible-to-use) search engine; Maia has my sympathy.

Posted October 9, 2007 5:31 PM by Mary Frances

Terry - I have access to a lot of journals online. Sending you one article, but it would help if you could give me a better idea of the project. Leaving work (and journal access) soon but will wait a bit to see if you get back to me on this in time to be useful today.

Posted October 9, 2007 5:42 PM by Susan

I'd rather be dragging the ass that's dragging the wagon than be dragged by the ass behind the wagon, as was said by the wag that sat on the ass that was dragging the wagon.

Along came a dragon.

The End.

Posted October 9, 2007 5:43 PM by bryan

bryan @ #68, that sentence needs to be a podcast.

Posted October 9, 2007 5:59 PM by Linkmeister

I'm thinking that suralc might write doggerel backwards.

Posted October 9, 2007 6:01 PM by TomB

Mary Frances: Got it. I think I'd found it, but I'm not sure (I've looked at a lot of paper titles in the past couple of hours).

I think the abstract is enough. I'll ask.

Susan: I got the thing you sent, and will forward.

I am not sure just what she needs. This is a place where her instructor failed the class; everyone thought the assignment was one thing but it wasn't.

So they now have to do the work, while keeping up with everything else.

Here is the assignment, as Maia explains it to me (the instructor didn't write it out, even after the misunderstanding)

She needs articles for which the end product will use evidence from an Ocuppational Science Journal, from which they will design a program. The present assignement is to find articles which describe practices which have already been designed around an occupation based practice model. Her group is working on designing a pediatric practice; she is looking for information on hippotherapy/therapeutic riding.

I think that hits the high points. If I got it, I will be better able to find things.

So abstracts are ok, because if they look good (IIUC) they can pull them through USC.

Posted October 9, 2007 6:13 PM by Terry Karney

One way to consider the anthropomorphic concept of Death is as a friend, someone who welcomes you at the end of your life, and ushers you to the next stage of existence, whatever that may be. Neil Gaiman's Death from the Sandman stories and Terry Pratchett's Discworld Death can be considered as being that sort of thing, more or less: Death as psychopomp.

Another way to consider Death is as an enemy; the great thief who steals away loved ones, and steals away the world from everyone.

This film is for those who for whatever reason tend towards the latter concept.

How to Cope With Death, by Ignacio Ferreras (3:20)

Posted October 9, 2007 6:39 PM by Owlmirror

TomB is perceptive. Thanks for the welcome. I'll be here often.

Posted October 9, 2007 6:53 PM by suralc

I am a knight, my bearings a dragon
proper (indeed) on barry wavy field,
a sign that land or sea I do not yield.
Still I'm happier with leather flagon
(not being the sort who'd go on the waggon),
that sort of weapon's easier to wield
but none would dare to limn it upon shield,
but truly all my fortune comes from lagan.
Now, tellers of romances all agree
that dragons far from eating ladies fair
are gentle creatures, always kind and sweet;
an awful state, this one that's come to be,
when dragons fly unhindered through the air,
and never knight and monster come to meet.

Posted October 9, 2007 7:24 PM by Fragano Ledgister

I'd like to thank you all for saving my sanity during an unexpected 6-hour layover in Denver. I quickly finished all the reading material I'd brought in carry-on, and the airport newsstand didn't offer much. (I didn't find the real bookstore in another concourse until the return trip.) There were approx 2 science fiction books to choose from. But the Making Light regulars all seem to think that this Charles Stross knows how to tell a good tale, and here was "Glasshouse" just out in paperback. So I bought a copy (and this is one of those cases where the tree carcass is definitely preferable to the evanescent electronic edition). All I can say is... WOW! And, now of course I have to read "Accelerando."

Posted October 9, 2007 7:50 PM by Allan Beatty

Terry, here's another:

"Effects of Hippotherapy on Postural Stability, in Persons with Multiple Sclerosis" by Debbie Silkwood-Sherer, PT, MS, and Heather Warmbier, MPT. Published in the Journal of Neurologic Physical Therapy, Vol. 31 No. 2 (June 2007)

Posted October 9, 2007 8:19 PM by Lila

Jakob @ #59:

As I understand the argument, the premise is that the Central Powers and the Allies were running out of manpower, tired of war, and having domestic problems. Without America to spur on a last push from the Central Powers, and to reinforce later Allied attacks, the theory is that the First World War would have ended in a tie.

That would have rather dramatic effects on the next few decades - no punitive treaty at Versailles, a more isolationist America, and a different kind of lesson about what happened when great powers threw down for real in the 20th century.

(One alternative outcome, where the Central Powers won after recruiting female soldiers for the Valkyrie Corps and instituted a post-war militant matriarchy, should at least be good for a SciFi movie of the week. As long as it has a role for Claudia Black.)

Posted October 9, 2007 8:40 PM by FungiFromYuggoth

How interesting: Mr. Google assures me that Hippotherapy is not a typo.

Posted October 9, 2007 8:41 PM by Earl Cooley III

FungiFromYuggoth @ 77... the Central Powers won after recruiting female soldiers for the Valkyrie Corps and instituted a post-war militant matriarchy, should at least be good for a SciFi movie of the week. As long as it has a role for Claudia Black.

I can't wait for the DVD.

Posted October 9, 2007 8:46 PM by Serge

joann@30: Once again you guys have managed to floor me with the variety of things that it would never occur to me could be found on Wikipedia

Well, I knew where to look. I certainly didn't google "rapid cooling drinks" and work my way there. I'd seen the episode, and started on the wikipedia mythbusters page. (actually, I started on the Mythbuster home page, but they didn't reveal much information other than that they attempted to cool beer in sand with fire.)

They tried to come up with various inventions to cool a drink even faster, but turned out that ice+water+salt was way easier and pretty effective compared to any contraption they came up with.

Reminded me of the episode about soda and Mentos. They isolated the compounds that caused the reaction (I forget what they were), and then they tried to come up with some other reaction that would be even bigger. But turned out they couldn't find anything that was nearly as easy to find as soda+mentos and as cool of a reaction.

Posted October 9, 2007 8:54 PM by Greg London

Greg London @ 80... I can't remember which ingredient in the drink did the trick, but one contributing factor were the tiny hollows of the mentos themselves.

Posted October 9, 2007 8:59 PM by Serge

USB Drink Chiller & Warmer

Posted October 9, 2007 9:01 PM by Earl Cooley III

Earl: Why did you think it a typo?

To one an all who provided links, titles, encouragement and warm thougts, my thanks, Maia's thanks and all good wishes that bread cast on the waters shall come back to you one hundred fold.

Someone said that surviving grad school is one of the toughest things a couple can do, and let me say, I agree.

Posted October 9, 2007 9:21 PM by Terry Karney

Old thinkers circle their wagons
Second-rate minds set the tone
I have no map for my dragons
and so I must search on my own

Hacking out new code in Java
Sequencing genomes for fun
Chipping off pieces of lava
Pinholing pictures of sun

Children just playing with rockets
hacking with maple and math
Acorns and bugs in their pockets
buoyancy shown in their bath

Old men still mulling their data
Anomalies puzzling them still
can't put off thinking till later
Till death they shall not have their fill

This girl sees patients and wonders
if she could connect all those dots
That guy sees germs of a theory
in pages of rough-printed plots

Dragons are what we are seeking
and seek them we shall, till we're dead
God has the map; there's no peeking
though you dream it's there all in your head

in microscopes, telescopes, flagons
in isotope ratios in bone
I have no map for my dragons
and so I must search on my own

Posted October 9, 2007 9:23 PM by albatross

Some random musings on what makes an author a Great Author: At least part of the distinction is something like this...

Common authors can write tales that are appealing the first time you read them, because they're new -- like some pretty object that draws your attention for a while -- but when you reread them, they're not nearly as interesting the second and third times, because they depended so much on novelty.

In contrast, the Great Authors write stories that are more like something you'd put up on your wall, or keep on your desk just to look at, because they're special in their own right. Every time you read them they still affect you strongly, and distinctively. That is, they affect you similarly every time -- if your response to them changes, it's because you've changed.

This came to me as I had decided to take a break from my memorial reading of Wheel of Time, having (again) found Fires of Heaven to be difficult going, even more so than The Shadow Rising.

So, I picked up the first volume of the Sandman graphic novels for a break. (Those were among the last things to go on my bookshelves post-move -- but by the same token, I made sure they were up front and accessible!)

And I found myself crying over "The Sound Of Her Wings"... again. It's not like I cry so easily, especially over fiction. But, beginning with that story, Gaiman reaches something really basic, something that stretches back as far as the poem he quotes via Morpheus, and further. And every damn time I read that tale, I'm moved to tears.

Another hint is when the author's work just becomes part of people's semantic memories... as when reading Serge's joke in #20, I immediately flashed from "rime" to the "Rimer's Tree" from Tad William's Memory, Sorrow, and Thorn. And apparently I wasn't alone, as in the very next comment, we see a "mooncalf" poke its nose out from Fragano's verse....

Posted October 9, 2007 10:13 PM by David Harmon

Oops, I desiblified Tad Williams' name with a misplaced apostrophe....

On a lighter note, Aaron Neathery did a "mad" riff on self-cooling soda in his guest strips for Shaenon Garrity's Narbonic.

Posted October 9, 2007 10:28 PM by David Harmon

Serge - if you haven't watched the last episode of Eureka yet, it's available at iTunes for $1.99. (And you can, ahem, back up your iTunes purchases, so maybe you can watch it via your dvd player.)

I subscribed for Season 2, but I haven't watched any of it yet - I'm saving it for watching on the road in November. I hope this season of Eureka is as good as the first one!

(back to lurking, all dragon-like)

Posted October 9, 2007 10:32 PM by Sharon M

"Elizabeth: The Golden Age"

Jesus. What a gasbag of a movie. Damn shame, too. A lot of pretty stuff to look at, but christ what a waste of *so* much money.

Probably the most beautiful but most inept naval battles I've ever seen. You know you are an incompetent filmmaker when you totally eff up The Destruction of the Spanish Armada.

(If that's a spoiler for anyone, you deserve it.)

Posted October 9, 2007 11:40 PM by Michael Weholt

Sharon M @ 87... I hope this season of Eureka is as good as the first one!

It's even better.

Posted October 9, 2007 11:46 PM by Serge

Terry Karney #83: Why did you think it a typo?

I plead ignorance. My edumacation wasn't quite as eclectic as it was for many of the luminaries here. When I saw the word "hippotherapy" I thought in terms of what if there were a Mad TV comedy skit where a hippopotamus petting zoo goes horribly wrong.

Posted October 9, 2007 11:54 PM by Earl Cooley III

Michael #88: You mean the Spanish don't invade England? Arghh! You've ruined the movie for me.

Actually, one of the more fun Harry Turtledove books concerns an alternate history in which the Armada succeeds, _Ruled Britania_. And the main two characters are both rather famous writers in OTL.

Posted October 9, 2007 11:56 PM by albatross

#90 Earl:

I was visualizing a really hardcore variant of that massage technique where the person walks on your back. ("The last back treatment you'll ever need.")

Though any book on hippotherapy ought to be written and illustrated by Sandra Boynton.

Posted October 9, 2007 11:59 PM by albatross

albatross #91

Pavanne is a dance
It's also a book.
Perhaps it is one
At which you should look

The English they lost
A battle at sea
The Spaniards did triumph,
Quite vigorously.

And Protestant England
It ceased then to be,
Stamped out by fanatic
Orthodoxy.

And centuries later
And late they arrived
Industrial trains
From somewhere on the side,

There came revolution
And iron to land,
Alternate histories,
See how they stand.

Posted October 10, 2007 1:03 AM by Paula Lieberman

I'd like to see an alternate history novel where we lose the war with Grenada. The medical students on the island unleash a genetically altered virus that makes everyone really really nauseous.

"Du-u-u-u-de! Don't interrupt our education with your stupid invasions, okay?"

Posted October 10, 2007 1:19 AM by Steve C.

Jakob @ #59:

90 years ago, in 1917, Russia was defeated and Italy was almost knocked out of the war by the Battle of Caporetto. There were mutinies in the French Army. Although Turkey wasn't much better.

The defeat of Russia released large numbers of troops for operations in the West.

So, without the USA, there was a possibility for the Central Powers to be in a strong enough position for a negotiated settlement.

Unfortunately, as a consequence of Blockade and the manpower absorbed by the military, their economies were in a death-spiral. A bit of French stubbornness, and there might have been a genuinely undefeated German Army forced to an armistice by economic collapse.

In other words, the betrayal myth of OTL might have been closer to the reality.

Throw in the influenza, and you could end up with something pretty dark and grim for a post-war Europe--famine, disease, Empires seeing Bolshevists behind every ill.

Posted October 10, 2007 1:39 AM by Dave Bell

Brad DeLong points to work on a lolcat version of the Bible. Just so everybody here knows.

"10. o, wait. wen teh perfict coemz, teh not perfict will diez, lolol.

11. wen i wuz a kitten, i speakded leik a kitten, thinkded liek a kittenz, reezined liek a kittenz. wen i wuz becomez a cat, i no haz kitten waiz ne moar."

Teh Gospel of John is pretty good, too.

Posted October 10, 2007 1:46 AM by Doug

A question:

How many novels, having won major awards, stay in print?

I know I've read some Hugo-winners in tatty editions picked up second-hand, printed around the time they won the award. Others get reprints, eventually.

But maybe being in print now isn't such a good measure? It's just easier to check.

Posted October 10, 2007 1:48 AM by Dave Bell

albatross @ 84

Very nice!

Posted October 10, 2007 2:34 AM by Bruce Cohen (SpeakerToManagers)

Steve C.

My wife keeps threatening to design a virus that specifically targets assholes, with a mortality rate proportional to the amount of gape of a given subject. That's the sort of virus the med students of Grenada should have developed. Think of hte effect on the halls of power; Washington, DC, especially around K Street, would be completely depopulated.

Posted October 10, 2007 3:19 AM by Bruce Cohen (SpeakerToManagers)

Administrative Note #1
=============================================
The old e-mail associated with this alias is actually defunct, on account of moving two states further East from when I originally created the account. (Frakin' Comcast....) As a result, I am having to use a new e-mail. Not wanting to lose the thread-post chain forever (or risk being labeled as things I'd rather not be labeled as) I am posting this here, under the old e-mail, to be followed on by another post with the new e-mail.

Administrative Note #2
=============================================
I've argued with a heap of people over the last 6 years. Some self-identify as liberal, some as conservative, some as libertarian, and some as nothing in particular. Re-reading the LibHawk thread it occurs to me that not once, in that entire 6 years, did anyone ever really sway me from my original positions; nor did I have much success in swaying them from theirs. In point of fact, if I drift back in my mind through all the internet discussions that have been political in nature, and in which I participated to any degree, almost nobody said, "Whoa! I never thought of that before! You might be right!" People (myself included) tended to stick to their guns, and more often than not, things got angry, and then we all really had cotton in our ears.

Anyway, the reason I mention this is because I had something of a come to Jesus moment. A friend of mine, and with whom I have disagreed heatedly on many political issues over time, said to me, hey, you know what, I am sick of all the internet debating. And he didn't just mean between the two of us. He meant between himself and the whole cyberverse. He was exhausted. He felt like all that was being accomplished was a whole lot of people getting pissed off at each other, and for what? What good was it accomplishing or doing anyone in their lives? It was anger for the sake of anger, rancor for the sake of rancor.

I sat back and thought pretty hard about that, and had to conclude that he'd touched on an almost spiritual meme: when does dialogue cease to be dialogue, and instead become a corrosive on the soul?

By nature, I'm not a guy who enjoys being angry, nor staying angry. And when I think of all the internet debates I've been party to since 2001, I must conclude that I've wasted vast personal resources getting upset over all kinds of shit and at all kinds of people, and it never actually accomplished anything positive. Not a lick of good came out of any of it, either for me or for the people who participated.

So he and I made something akin to a pledge.

For the next 90 days I'm swearing off political cyber-debate. Cold turkey. Here. On the other forums I frequent. Gonna pull the needle out of my arm. I can't stop the rest of the world from enacting the final scenes of "Needful Things", but I can cease my participation in the soul-corrosion. Either as a giver or a taker of said corrosive.

Because in the end, what good is accomplished--personal, political, social, psychological, spiritual?

Not much.

Assuming the 90 days goes well, I might get out of the arguing racket for keeps. At least on political issues. I might not give up having an opinion, but I can eschew expressing it and harping on things through communication modes which lend themselves to corrosive, pointless results.

Anyway, just wanted to put it out for the group.

Posted October 10, 2007 4:18 AM by CommunityRadioVet

Administrative Note #3
=================================================
New e-mail. The bookmarks for old/new have been established, in case anyone in the future cares to track back through my posts.

Posted October 10, 2007 4:21 AM by CommunityRadioVet

Dave @ #85: I have often felt similarly about the television version of "The Maxx". While no condensed or televised adaptation of a comic or novel ever truly succeeds in being 100% true to the original material, I keep coming back to "The Maxx" as one of those startling and unexpected gems that one occasionallty finds amid the dross of cable 'entertainment' TV.

Along with "Liquid Television", I like to think that "The Maxx" (and "Daria") was one of those animation projects that MTV got right, in spite of there being every indication that they'd get it wrong. Chalk it up to writing, I guess? And strong source material?

Anyway, I just wish "The Maxx" could be had on DVD. We've got the three-DVD deluxe "Æon Flux", so when the hell are they gonna give us a DVD for "The Maxx"? If that never happens, I will be seriously, seriously upset.

Posted October 10, 2007 4:31 AM by CommunityRadioVet

Terry #83: Someone said that surviving grad school is one of the toughest things a couple can do, and let me say, I agree.

Any tips? The SO started her PhD a few weeks ago; for added fun, she's doing it part-time (although her supervisor has said he'll transfer her at the usual point if she produces a good enough report, which she should.)

Posted October 10, 2007 5:23 AM by Jakob

CRV @100 & 101:
First off, good resolution. I go through periodic waves of resolving to hold as few opinions as possible*, and discuss them rarely.

And although internet discussions can change minds, they're rarely successful at it. I'm not sure the success rate is worth the effort.

Secondly, if I were you, I would repost the account move information in Comment 100 into a new comment under the new address, with a pointer to the old address in it. Just c&p the following text into your posting:

<a href="http://nielsenhayden.com/makinglight/commentlist-oneauthor.php?author=CommunityRadioVet&email=roadwarrior1974@comcast.net"> my old View All By</a>

Then someone doing a View All By on the new you can click a link to trace back to the old you.

-----
* Which is still a fair number; I need to have opinions to function in society.

Posted October 10, 2007 5:38 AM by abi

CRV @100 and All,

Today's NYTimes has a nifty article on email (mis)communications that's applicable to any online conversation.

In short: "e-mail can be emotionally impoverished when it comes to nonverbal messages that add nuance and valence to our words. The typed words are denuded of the rich emotional context we convey in person or over the phone."

"the absence of a channel for the brain’s emotional circuitry carries risks...we tend to misinterpret positive e-mail messages as more neutral, and neutral ones as more negative, than the sender intended...'When you communicate with a group you only know through electronic channels, it’s like having functional Asperger’s Syndrome — you are very logical and rational, but emotionally brittle'..."

What this means is we must have more Fluorospheridae gatherings*.

-----------------
*I'm still planning to hold one at Denver's Worldcon.

Posted October 10, 2007 5:49 AM by Kathryn from Sunnyvale

#78: How interesting: Mr. Google assures me that Hippotherapy is not a typo.

I naturally assumed it involved travelling to some African country, there to wallow in glorious mud. Sounds rather nice.

Posted October 10, 2007 5:55 AM by ajay

ajay: Sounds like a transport of delight.

Posted October 10, 2007 6:05 AM by Jakob

Hmm. I dropped by here to leave a link in the latest open thread, which now seems rather off-topic. Ah, well.

Here is what I was going to post: a singing Tesla coil which I have been assured plays the Tetris theme music.

I suppose this fits with the Mythbusters/things-go-splodey theme, tangentially at least.

Back to the hoarding of words--is being a blogdragon related to being a bookworm?

Posted October 10, 2007 6:22 AM by Nenya

Jakob #107: It is, but then the gasman cometh.

Posted October 10, 2007 7:21 AM by Fragano Ledgister

Disentangle the Making Light posters to win no valuable prizes!

1. Solar Bats
2. Kind impala
3. Silken Mitre
4. Nth tor gnome
5. Bring lasagna
6. Weird plankton
7. Camel with hole
8. Oily ace oilier
9. Doggie transferal
10. Foggy Uniform Thug
11. Mom Dad jeans clad
12. Vindicate Rummy too
13. Thy cold horrid host
14. Alien hyperdance knits
15. Hygienic Kibble Logjams
16. Oceanographers rename buckets

Posted October 10, 2007 7:21 AM by Main Ally Clue

#110: Main Ally Clue: Disentangle the Making Light posters to win no valuable prizes!

The only one I can't figure out is:

7. Camel with hole

Posted October 10, 2007 7:33 AM by miChael weholt

alsafi #62, welcome, I enjoyed it. Perhaps welcome isn't right for someone who's been lurking regularly? Congratulations on your coming-out poem

albatross #84 *applause*

Posted October 10, 2007 7:40 AM by OtterB

re, #92: I thought hippotherapy was an exotic veterinary specialty, though I agree that the manual should be illustrated by Boynton.

Posted October 10, 2007 8:51 AM by Adrian

Nenya@108:

Maybe blogdragon is to bookwyrm. I'll certainly cop to having a hoard of papery treasures that take pride of place (ie, anywhere vaguely horizontal that is not a chair) in my dwelling...

Posted October 10, 2007 8:59 AM by Gesso

albatross @ 84
*ow*

bravo.

Posted October 10, 2007 9:20 AM by myrthe

I had been invited to a party by a kind impala. "Bring lasagna," she told me, "it's pot luck." So I said goodbye to my parents, both of whom were wearing Levis, and went to mount my camel, but fell off because the poor thing had a hole right through its hump.

"Fine," I thought, "I'll go by boat." But before I had gone very far I found my way blocked by some immovable masses of floating logs crowded together, which, strangely enough, were mixed in with a lot of very clean iron buckets of the sort one might use for hauling water out of wells. On the riverbank, a couple of oceanographers were playing cards and chatting. "We can't keep calling them hygienic kibble logjams," said one. "We should rename those buckets. When I pull mine out of the water, they're always full of weird plankton." "Really?" said the other one. "Show me thy cold horrid host." The first oceanographer complied, but warned, "Don't dip your cards in the bucket! You don't want to make your oily ace oilier." "It might make the game more exciting," opined the second. "It would vindicate Rummy, too."

At that point they heard me calling for help. At first they were inclined to ignore me. One said to the other, "We don't want to get involved with some foggy uniform thug." I was quite offended when I heard this, but looking down at myself I could see how they might have got this impression of me. I wished I had put on my brightly coloured alien hyperdance knits instead. Then I felt in my pocket, and lo and behold! I found my silken mitre. I put it on my head and it had an immediate and positive effect on the oceanographers. They helped me to shore and onto a sledge drawn by huskies, guided through the gloom by some solar bats which glowed as they flew before us.

This method of doggie transferal soon brought me to my destination. I was fashionably late; numerous editorial staff, many of them very short, had already arrived. After I had greeted N-1 of them, the Nth Tor gnome found a dish for my lasagna and gave me a glass of wine. It was certainly a memorable evening.

Posted October 10, 2007 9:20 AM by Eleanor

Dragons once walked these lands, long ago,
But in their place now are screws and rats;
Where once molten fire scoured the hills,
Mere mammals build homes, houses, and flats.
But immortal fire is a strange affair
For where the ancient light once burned,
Word-fires arise, their substance, smoke and fuel
Academic; the lesson was learned.
Beasts are destroyed, monsters abolished,
And dragon slayers now only bore,
But in a world where nothing is real,
Dragons show their claws once more.

Posted October 10, 2007 9:46 AM by Koneko

Administrative Note #4
================================================
abi, excellent idea!

my old View All By

Posted October 10, 2007 10:00 AM by CommunityRadioVet

Fragano, #109...

But he can't pass heat from a cooler to a hotter.

Posted October 10, 2007 10:42 AM by Dave Bell

Dave Bell #119: Unless, apparently, you use a Ranque-Hilsch vortex tube!

Posted October 10, 2007 10:48 AM by Jakob

Kathryn @#105:

The lack of intonation in text communication far predates the Web -- it's been a problem literally since the beginning of E-mail. Back when I got started in the mid-80's, there were omnipresent FAQs trumpeting the issue, but in this Eternal September, few places even bother to try and educate all the new users....

Posted October 10, 2007 10:53 AM by David Harmon

#120: No Science Villain should be without a Ranque-Hilsch Vortex Tube. In extremis, you can connect it to the gas dump valve of your zeppelin* - producing an instant jet of incandescent hydrogen!

*You have a zeppelin, right? You don't? Amateur.

Posted October 10, 2007 10:59 AM by ajay

David Harmon #121

It does seem like an endless task. At least Newsreaders have killfiles to filter out the obvious dreck - I haven't yet seen anything similar for blogs (but then I haven't looked very hard).

Not that it really applies here - the signal to noise ratio is much higher in Making Light than other places.

Posted October 10, 2007 11:09 AM by Steve C.

Dave Bell #119: For that you'd need twenty tons of tnt.

Posted October 10, 2007 11:09 AM by Fragano Ledgister

Jakob: Forbearance, lots of it, on both sides.

All I can look at is how it affects us. There's never enough time; always too much to do. Things which would have been minor nuisances explode.

Pick up more than your share of the load (dishes, laundry, shopping, what have you).

If you can, get involved in the subject (I know a lot more about OT now than I ever thought I would). If you can help with some of the scutwork of the program (like finding articles) things seem more a team effort than the one person having to fight all the battles, while you have all the fun.

If you can really get into it, you can act as reader; and pick up some of the load (that does, however, require that the person in the program knows how to use a reader).

I think the way to look at it is, perhaps, one's beloved is suffering a dread disease and needs all the suppport one can manage, with as little resentment of how it's dominating everything, as possible.

Oh yeah, and reminding yourselves it will pass. Often.

Posted October 10, 2007 11:11 AM by Terry Karney

A couple of thoughts from one of the war threads: There was talk of being in the resistance if the US were conquered by Canada or the UN or whoever. I can understand the impulse, but historically, most people accept getting conquered. At what point is it reasonable/moral to just accept that you've got a new government?

If George Bush surrendered to a foreign power, would you feel bound by it? What if he didn't surrender and told Americans to keep fighting?

Should there be laws of resistance comparable to laws of war?

And in re Iraq and WWII: The defeat of the Axis worked out extraordinarily well. I can't think of anything else like it in history, but I could be missing something.

Maybe it would be a good argument to say that expecting a WWII outcome from conquest is like expecting to get rich by betting your life savings on the double zero. It's possible in principle, but really, you shouldn't.

Posted October 10, 2007 11:11 AM by Nancy Lebovitz

Starting with Katherine's post on Obsidian Wings, I've been reading about Khaled el-Masri today. Because I can't find a way to formulate thoughts about this that won't get me the same treatment he got, I'll just say this: it no longer makes sense to talk about the United States being on the verge of fascism. We crossed that line a ways ago and we're not looking back.

Posted October 10, 2007 11:21 AM by ethan

Terry #125:

I think the hardest thing for me, when my wife was in grad school, was accepting that right then, her work was more important than mine. That if there was a push between her writing her thesis and me finishing something up for work, I needed to let her write her thesis while I took the baby. The second thing that was hard was realizing that I still had to set some limits and priorities for my own time and interests, or I'd be squashed flat.

And years later, there's still some residual resentment/stress about my job and outside commitments vs. hers, even though she finished up several years ago. It's like those pressures were so intense, they shaped us even though they're long gone now.

Posted October 10, 2007 11:33 AM by albatross

Terry #83: Someone said that surviving grad school is one of the toughest things a couple can do, and let me say, I agree.

Jakob #103: Any tips? The SO started her PhD a few weeks ago; for added fun, she's doing it part-time (although her supervisor has said he'll transfer her at the usual point if she produces a good enough report, which she should.)

In 1992, I got married and started a PhD program. My new spouse was 2 years into a PhD program in a different department at the same university. Of the relationship and 2 academic careers, only 1 academic career survived to 1997 (and that was as part of a 10-year PhD completion.) My advice is to beware of academic advisors that do not approve of students being married--either in general, or your particular marriage. When everyone in a lab group is divorced, if they have not married in the last 18 months, it's a danger sign. Also beware binge drinking.

Posted October 10, 2007 11:35 AM by Adrian

My major tip for the spouses of those pursuing PhDs is NEVER to ask, as you both climb into bed, hoping to sink into comfortable slumber, "How's the dissertation writing going?"

I swear I didn't sleep for a year until my beloved learned that lesson.

Posted October 10, 2007 11:44 AM by Sarah S

126: At what point is it reasonable/moral to just accept that you've got a new government?

I'd say there are two tests: legitimacy and morality.

Assuming that governments derive their legitimacy from the consent of the governed (not from, for example, the Divine Right of Kings, or descent from George of Hanover, or whatever) - if a government, however erected, has that consent, then it's legitimate.

Note the difference, too, between consent and support. I may not support Gordon Brown as PM, but I am willing to consent to be governed by him, on the grounds that his rule is the result of a process of election which I support.

Similarly, if Britain annexes the US, but most Americans decide (rather like post-war Germans) that Britain was justified in doing so, and that they may as well accept the annexation - then its rule is legitimate, and trying to overthrow the British colonial government by force isn't legitimate.

Second point: moral. It's still not moral for Britain to do so - because it's waging aggressive war. Can resistance be justified because of this "original sin"? I would say not - it doesn't affect the legitimacy of the current regime (see above). But it can be justified by immorality during the occupation; if the widely-consented-to British government goes around torturing people, or disappearing people, or whatever, then it's governing immorally, and resistance (even against a legitimate government) is morally justified.

Posted October 10, 2007 11:48 AM by ajay

Another round of early morning fun; so many threads of whimsy.

CRV: I've changed a number of opinions from print/internet discussion (and tone of typer/lack of voice is a problem which has existed since the invention of writing. For years I didn't do letters because I was afraid I would give some permanent offense [because the noxious remark would be fresh at every reading] I've gotten over it, though it probably restrains some of my baser thoughts from being realised on the screen).

It wasn't, usually, something on which I had a really strong opinion; but one on which someone else did. I've come, as I get more practice, to the point that some of the one's I have great investment in I can walk away from (there's a person who posts to my blog; extolling the utility; even to virtue, of torture.

He's yet to figure out that I ignore him. It's best for my blood pressure/the integrity of my household goods.

But things which weren't so close to me have been changed (and some of them to the point of being dearly held). That's why I debate. Hope, that most pernicious of blessings, keeps rising that those at intellectual loggerheads with me will change their minds. I assume they feel the same (so long as I think them being honest).

So I'll not give up the struggles, mostly because I know there are those on the fence who watch.

I commend you the realisation that it's more grief for you than fun (I've taken breaks; weary in spirit and heavy of heart the fight wasn't in me).

And now I'm off to toss hay at the hippos.

Posted October 10, 2007 11:51 AM by Terry Karney

Earl #82:

Cool device. It's rather overspecified, though, except in one particular: how *long* does it take to cool off a drink can?

Posted October 10, 2007 12:00 PM by joann

Heh. Reading Spook Country by Joel GreyWilliam Gibson on my lunch break, just came across this exchange:

"[My mother] complains about my father...she thinks he's obsessed with American politics. She says it makes him too angry."

"If this were my country," Odile said, wrinkling her nose, "I would not be angry."

"No?" Hollis asked.

"I would drink all the time. Take pill. Anything."

Posted October 10, 2007 12:02 PM by ethan

Sarah S #130:

I headed that one off at the pass by doing a deal with my husband: "It's finished when it's finished. These things happen at one second per second. If you don't ask me how it's going, sometimes I'll tell you." Which I would do once every week or two, when sufficiently emboldened by wine.

Fortunately, he is of the opinion that anything can be solved with a sufficient application of computer power and RTFM, or whatever the subject-specific equivalent might be. Not that any of this helped while I spent a whole semester in another country.

Posted October 10, 2007 12:07 PM by joann

yabonn #33, albatross #34, etc. The conversation's wandered on, but I just got back to this.

The fluorosphere has dragons in the deeps
They lurk unseen, below the give and take
We argue, quip, and rhyme; the discourse sweeps
Across the forms unknown beneath the lake

Do not mistake for trolls their silent presence
No need to disemvowel, there's no pain
They stretch their wings and bask in the fluoresence
Neither flamed nor flaming, they remain

Sometimes we are privileged to witness
One breaching, leaping high into the light
To leave behind a verse or thought whose fitness
Makes us glad for glimpse of dragon flight

Posted October 10, 2007 12:22 PM by OtterB