October 11, 2007
Posted by Jim Macdonald at 02:45 PM * 1101 comments
…are the opening lines of Dark Prince (Del Rey, 1993; reprinted 2007) by David Gemmell (The golden-haired child sat alone, as he usually did, and wondered whether his father would die that day….) and Of Atlantis (Roval Publishing, 2007) by Lanaia Lee (The golden-haired child sat alone, as he usually did, and wondered whether his Father would die today….).
Via and quoting from Dear Author we find a “Top Ten Tips for Plagiarists” list. The tips begin:
10. Don’t claim the dog did it. We all know that all but a very few dogs, maybe none other than Underdog, is capable of the task because they have no opposable thumbs. In fact, blaming it on any animal makes us suspect unless it is one of the gorillas studied by Dian Fossey.9. Don’t plagairize someone famous. The more popular the author, the more likely you’re plagiarism will be caught out. Try to find someone obscure.
8. Don’t blame it on depression or physical disability, i.e., wheelchair bound stroke victims. Only because that insults wheelchair bound stroke victims everywhere.
7. Don’t set up a website and post the plagiaristic material. If it is on the web, someone is bound to find it, particularly when google indexes it.
6. Don’t do interviews. Again, the more people that hear about you, the more likely that your stealing will be sussed out. Try to rip as many people off before the gig is up.
…and continue, devastatingly and hilariously, in that vein.
“I write because I feel each person has something unique to share with the world and writing is my gift to share” says Lanaia on her web page. There we learn that Of Atlantis …
…first book of a five book fantasy series, will be released this fall, watch for it! Read an except. Publisher: Roval Publishing.
Five book fantasy series? By golly! Dark Prince was the second volume of a five-book alternate history series. Coincidences never stop, do they?
Roval is a pay-to-play vanity press. “Roval Publishing is the future of publishing,” is what they say about themselves. Check for the number of linguistic markers in their bullet-list:
* Respect — We respect you as a writer always.
* Responsibility — We embrace the responsibility to bring your work to publication.
* Commitment — We are totally committed to you as an author.
* Ownership — We recognize and endorse that YOU own the work.
* Quality — We strive for a quality product that you can be proud of.
Just in case Lanaia’s website suddenly and mysteriously goes down or gets changed, here are a couple of screen shots:
![[Lanaia Lee Home Page]](http://www.sff.net/people/yog/Lanaia_big.jpg) | From Lanaia’s front page. |
![[Lanaia Lee _Of Atlantis_]](http://www.sff.net/people/yog/Of_atlantis_big.jpg) | The prologue from Of Atlantis. |
![[First page from Dark Prince (at BN.com)]](http://www.sff.net/people/yog/Gemmell.jpg) | The first page from Dark Prince. |
Really, now. Plagiarizing opening lines? What has to go through a person's head to think that wouldn't get caught? I mean, it's the freaking opening line for pete's sake.
This may just be my crappy old version of IE, but somehow the screenshots are pushing down over the Doris Lessing post immediately following (on the main page).
It isn't just the opening line. It's the whole opening page. And presumably the second page, third page, and so on. They're near-identical as far as the available excerpt goes. In one place Lanaia even forgot to change the name of the character from Alexander (in the original by David Gemmell) to Archimedes (in her version).
From the message board, quoth the author:
Lanaia: When I first started Of Atlantis, I hire a ghost writer Christopher Hill. I see what he did now and for that I aplogize. I was scammed. I apologize to Mr. Hemmel's memory and his family.
*snickers*
I'm trying to fix the screen-shot problem.
On Firefox, the screen shots are spilling into the comments header and the comments.
Maybe put a nbsp paragraph after the pictures? Something like that?
Christopher Hill writes plagiarized fantasy novels from beyond the grave?
What *will* he get up to next?
Safari too. Try: [ br clear='all' ] at the end of the post.
That will clear all the floaty bits.
Well, she did say he was a ghost writer...
Tracie--
Thank you, thank you. We'll be here all week! Try the veal...it's spectacular!
W00t, Jim! The tables did the trick for Firefox!
Publisher: Roval Publishing.
I first read this as "Ryoval Publishing", which explained everything.
still having the screenshots in the comments in firefox.
Briefly (and inadvertently) reverted to an earlier version. It should work now.
So Ms. Lee has to share "something unique", which she admits to having been ghostwritten (possibly from Beyond), via a vanity press. Is this Bizarro Book Publishing World Day or a story from The Onion? My brain hurts.
Sarah S and Tracie - can you guys come up for the Fringe? You're funnier than a lot of the 'comedians' I've seen.
I'm in Firefox (2.0.0.7) and the screenshots are now drooping into the first three comments, which are scrunching over to the sides of their boxes so as to avoid being squashed.
I have to say that while I understand the logic of properly citing your own work, it does seem odd to be accused of plagiarizing yourself. Why not quote your own master's thesis just for the glee of seeing your name in the bibliography?
Screenshots look fine now in my old/crappy IE.
The sad part is that it doesn't really come as a surprise. We all know that vanity presses deal with heaps of text, not the written word, and even if they did actually read a portion of the book, they very well might not have the literary background to recognize it.
As for the author, people do a lot of crazy things for attention. At least this one was relatively benign in the grand scheme of things.
James @ 14 - fine here now, ta muchly.
The same page has submission guidelines for the author's ezine. Of course they pay in "exposure" (with an admonition to "be optimistic") and offer $25 for the story of the month.
They also let writers "maintains complete rights to his/her work" even though they're presumably going to be published.
But silly, contradictory guidelines can be attributed to a certain gormless quality so prevalent on the internet. That plagiarism can't.
From her "yellbox", it appears Ms. Lee is unwilling to discuss the issue:
Lanaia: I have erractic hypertension, you keep dogging me I could have another stroke, contact my agent and attorney, I'm sure no one wants mt blood on their hands
Lanaia: I take total responsibility, and under the advice of my attorney, this will be fixed. My stroke, I almost died, I would never intentionally take advantage of the dead. Contact my agent and lawyer
Fascinating. Exposing her plagiarism is going to lead to blood on your hands, people! How could you do that?!
re #21
Where's Jim?
I don't *think* people bleed out from strokes...but I get all my medical info from House and CSI, so I could be wrong....
I haven't yet written my (planned) post on strokes. Yes, you can have a hemorrhagic stroke (aka "brain bleed"). On a scale from good to bad, they're way over there on the "bad" side.
As to Christopher Hill, there was a scam agent in the UK by that name, who strung people along with increasingly grand stories of their works being reviewed, then accepted, by major US publishers. This even (IIRC) went as far as contracts. Then he vanished. When the authors contacted the publishers directly, they found (wonder of wonders!) that the publishers had never heard of a) their works, or b) Mr. Hill.
But look ye at Ms. Lee's own agent, Cheryl Pillsbury. Ms. Pillsbury has not only managed to sell her clients' work to Roval Publishing, she's gotten contracts with PublishAmerica!
Regardless of whether Mr. Hill was involved, hiring a ghostwriter at all is an odd thing to do for a person who claims that "writing is my gift to share."
Um, Jim--I'm reading the #10 on the "Dear Author" list and shouldn't it be "all but a very few dogs is INcapable of" plagiarism? (Actually, the old grammar teacher in me wants it to be "all/are," too, but that doesn't matter to the sense . . .)
And neither as anything to do with your main point, of course. This is wild.
Sarah S
Not that way, normally.
And if her health is so fragile that being challenged for plagiarism is life-threatening, she might want to rethink her recreational activities. (No, I'm not very sympathetic to her. The people I know who've had strokes still manage to have better judgement that this.)
Speaking of grammar quibbles, the plagiarist "is a stroke victim that."
Tracie @ 9, Sarah S @10, 22:
Good thing I'd put the coffee cup down before reading those... (thanks; I needed laughter today.)
Sarah S @22: IIRC strokes are caused by either a blood clot in the brain (ischemic) or a blood vessel in the brain breaking (hemorraghic).
Not sure if you can bleed out from one. There's only so much space available inside the skull...
*vomits in the exact same way that George Bush vomitted on the Prime Minister of Japan.*
Myself, @24: Neither "HAS" anything to do with your main point, blast it. Fumble fingers strikes again.
The yellbox has just been blanked out.
I do so love seeing a plagiarism takedown in action.
My name is Cheryl Pillsbury, published in my own right, I'm also the founder of AG Press which did the work on the book, 'Of Atlantis.' Come to find out from a deep search into this issue, we discovered a former literary agent she worked with on this book gave her advice on how to write the prologue. Come to find out, it is simular to his book. We didn't know this, we don't know him and never did until today. We do apologise for this, we are planning to do a re-write and remedey this issue.
For people who throw stones at glasses houses should be very cautious about speaking before they know the truth. Slander can cause a major lawsuit from the author and the publisher mentioned, because I will make sure they know about this and dear Jane will have nightmares in 10 fold. Yes, I'm Wicca.
I was just informed, the author has already set the motions for the lawsuit, be prepared. You were told by the lawyer not to post anything related to this issue, first amendement does not apply. I have made a copy of this site for proof, see you soon. Have a ducky day.
He shoots, he scores!
Weeeellll. I am even more amused.
Cheryl--
Your e-lawyer threats are baseless and laughable. You grammar is atrocious and for the head of a publishing company, your clarity of thought is like dribbling sputum.
PROTIP: true statements of fact are not defamation.
BONUS PROTIP 100%: unless the statement is defamatory per se, a rapidly shrinking category, statements which do not cause actual, quantifiable damage are not actionable defamation.
James MacDonald, thank you for your words. It is true what Mr. Hill did to Mary, we found the proof and plan to to solve the problem. I have publishing contracts with four publishers, and nice in their way, but Roval is my favorite, because they work with the author one on one. If I could find Mr. Hill, he would sued to no end for what has caused Mary. Yes she's in a wheelchair because she suffered three strokes and had six miscarriages. It's not a ploy, its fact and a hard one for and her husband who suffered permanent injuries leaving him disabled. If anything this should be something to make us stronger, look at what they have succeeded at. Jane should apologize and pray she didn't mean the lawsuit, because Jane was told by attorney not to post anything related to this issue until we knew the truth, oh well. It shows some people will never grow up.
Wow, we were just threatened with witchcraft. I haven't been threatened with witchcraft in a good fifteen years. (Yes, I have been threatened with it before. But not by a Wiccan. They usually know better.)
I wonder if I get to be a target of the spell and the lawsuit? Do I need to say the book's opening paragraphs are identical to another book's opening paragraphs?
How do I get in on the action?
Mary? I thought her name was Lanaia.
And who's Jane?
#32
What? Really?
Was that seriously a post containing both threats of Witchy Curses AND Already Filed Lawsuits?
Second lame legal threat in three days? Is that a record for Making Light?
Are the remedeys simular?
David Gemmell was Lanaia Lee's agent? Or was Christopher Hill channeling David Gemmell? I'm not sure what Pillsbury is trying to say.
Oh, look! The cartooney! Shortly after I posted this entry I talked with Miss Teresa. I predicted, right then, that we were going to get threatened with a lawsuit. But I didn't suspect it would come from soi disant "literary agent" Cheryl Pillsbury!
Hiya, Cheryl! Too bad about that grammar.... But as long as we have you here, I'd like to ask a question about your agenting.
How much do you charge?
people who throw stones at glasses houses which also serve as porcelain shops inside of which can be found a bunch of cranky bulls... Comedy ensues.
This is the third time I've heard someone excuse themselves of plagiarism on the grounds that they'd had some unreachable third party write it for them, and that that third party was the one who committed the plagiarism.
I guess they must not have dogs.
Yes her name is Lanaia Lee and Jane is Jane Little from DearAuthor.com. I'm not a witch per say, but I defend those who are being wronged and Lanaia is being wronged major time.
he would sued to no end for what has caused Mary
This makes no sense. Sorry, but someone who claims to be a writer ought to write better than this.
The agent "writes" remarkably like the author. How about that.
Seriously, Cheryl Pillsbury, you can't write consecutive coherent sentences, let alone a legal threat that makes a lick of sense. Anything above arguing with your pets is out of your league. I'd advise you to stop before you make a larger fool of yourself. You won't, of course, but the recommendation is on record.
Mary is the pen name for Lanaia. Jane is the host of a website called Dear Author, which posted the article that James linked to. I think Cheryl has the two websites mixed up.
"Cartooney"? Is there a pun I'm missing? What's the derivation of the word?
Lanaia is being wronged major time.
This is my favorite kind of bad writing: can't deploy the most common idiom without mangling it.
More!
Cheryl (46): Major league, okay. Big time, also okay. Major time, not okay.
Wicca? @32: Cheryl, if you truly knew anything about Wicca, you would not have used the term "10 fold."
Wicca teaches that whatever we do returns to us three fold. I've been a practicing Witch since 1969.
BTW, the author you're defending has stolen an already published work. If anyone has the right to sue in this situation, it's David Gemmell and his publisher.
Jon (50), a cartooney is a huffing-and-puffing fake threat to bring on the lawyers and lawsuits.
I'm sure "Jane" is the writer of the original list on the Dear Author page.
Cheryl,
I do rather hope that no Wiccan threats shall be made towards the family of David Gemmell.
After all it's been a rather difficult year for them with David dying and all.
You and your client should really be ashamed of causing them more distress and an apology is warranted rather than threats of lawsuits and nightmares tenfold, wouldn't you think??
Apparently Cheryl Pillsbury does not believe in the threefold rule.
this is the most amazingly special thing i have seen in quite some time.
in fact, i dare say it beats the art-plagerist who claimed her 3 year old used her computer to edit art in photoshop and repost them to a message board where they got digital money for them.
a cartooney is a huffing-and-puffing fake threat to bring on the lawyers and lawsuits.
I got that, I wanted to know where the word came from.
Man, it's tough to keep up with the traffic around here.
I'm sure that, by the time I get this post finished, "Cheryl Pillsbury" will have already moved past threats of lawsuits and onto "I posted this as a test and you all failed!"
Ok, we have the author with the pathetic life story that was "wrongly accused" of plagiarism (written by a third party, of course) who is being valiantly defended by her agent who brings "already filed lawsuits" and threats from a set of beliefs they clearly do not belong to. All we need now is another sock puppet and we'll be all set for Your Typical Attention Seeking Plagiarist That Was Caught. (note the capitalization of doom, generally abused by such authors).
(I apologize for grammar/spelling mistakes, this isn't my main language and I'm not always too comfortable with it.)
*gets the popcorn out*
Shouldn't an actual qualified agent be better at PR than this? Because public relations? That would be part of the job.
Yes, I'm Wicca
I'm not a witch per say
Ooo! Ooo! I get it! You have, perhaps, written Willow fic? The misspelling seems familiar.
Well hey...
Maybe she has money left over from her other nationwide books, even after sponsoring a poet:
( link here )
Tiny thing, but it's been niggling at me: did anyone else notice that Lee could not even spell her agent's name correctly on her website? All these odd spelling errors are making me wonder just how many people are writing.
Or how few.
Cheryl @38: "I have publishing contracts with four publishers, and nice in their way, but Roval is my favorite, because they work with the author one on one"
I may not be particularly experienced in this field, but a lot of the people here are and they'll surely correct me in this if I'm just mistaken, but I've never heard of a publisher that doesn't work with the author one-on-one. Hell, even PublishAmerica does (even if they do it badly).
I am sure many people ( especially in Europe, Scotland in particular) remember Hill and Hill Literary Agency, especially for being well known for their scams. Don't beleve me check out some Scottish newspapers. You know, I think every one should just stop and take a deep breath. Yes, I am guilty of listening to the advice of Christopher Hill, but that is the only mistake I made. I went back through old files I had saved and I have irrefutable proof, he coached me and did the ghost writing. I even have the receipts where I paid him for his services. My attorny told me because of the proof I have, I did no wrong and those that we to trash my name, well just hope you don't say anything bad about my publisher or I. My attorney is threatning to sue, because for once in my life, being a pack rat paid off.
LANAIA
Oh, it gets better...
"lania" posted a poem that she says appears in On Atlantis:
"Lost so long ago, almost totally forgotten by mankind, almost lost to various chapters, of time, itself
The thought of something so magical, has no room in the rat race of man today
Through out all ancient societies, you will find reference to the amulet, and all it's magic and wealth
But something of this magnitude, has no place in the rushed life of mortal man today, as he works, as he plays"
...
God in heaven, there's so much more than the excerpt above. I tried reading further, but my teeth tried to wrap around my head & eat my brain.
Leva, please pass the popcorn. Teresa, should I put this sixpack of Anchor Steam in the bathtub?
My company charges a one time fee $50.00 to consult, lay-out and discuss the project. I set you up with a critique, an illustrator or poet if you wish, to do the project. When its done, we will find a contract for you, I mainly work with Roval Publishing.
Permitting you for the sake of argument the existence of your attorney, Lanaia: You do know that the first thing a real attorney would tell you if they were actually going to file a lawsuit would be to shut up, right? So long as you keep your mouth running, no one's going to believe you're filing a lawsuit. At least, not with a real lawyer.
#60: I got that, I wanted to know where the word [cartooney] came from.
'Cartooney' originated in the anti-spam community. It's a portmanteau of 'cartoon' + 'attorney'. Imagine that the person making the bogus legal threat is being represented by Wile E. Coyote, Esq.
I set you up
A little nugget of truth.
I want more hilarious ESL threats as much as the next person, but it does seem a bit unfair to go into a battle of wits with someone so obviously unarmed. I guess she preys on wheelchair-bound glory hounds, so she kindof deserves it...
I dunno, this is like watching two entirely different genres collide. The hopeless idiots a la Fargo meet the hardboiled Shakespearean PIs a la Chandler.
Lanaia, I hate to break it to you, but you were scammed TWICE, once by Christopher Hill and once by your so-called agent. Roval Publishing is a vanity press and will publish anything for a fee.
Hi, Lanaia.
Did you or did you not say, in your YellBox on your webpage, "I have proof of my copt right and this work is totally mine. I guess some one wants a law suit"?
True lawyers will ask you to keep quiet if the papers were filed, there not yet.
Roval Publishing is a self-publishing company that specializes in digital and there are no fees. You pay for the package you wish to have.
I do believe in the 3 fold, I haven't made an offical threat yet, just words for now.
My lawyer's are highly recommended and I wouldn't trade them for anyone or anything.
My writing is the Underworld, not Law.
In response to post #71, I just got a bigger bucket of popcorn. So Cheryl charges a fee and mainly works with a pay to play pod publisher? Interesting.
(And I, too, keep reading "Roval" as "Ryoval." Which would be most appropriate.)
Ed G, #12: BWAHAHAHA!
Plagiarist's Agent, #32: Words of wisdom from another thread: Letters from lawyers mean something. Letters about lawyers don't.
Oh, and threatening/casting malicious spells will get you in a LOT of trouble with the Goddess. Do you really think that's going to scare anyone here? Oh... I see that later on, you say you're not a witch. Well, that I'll believe, since you have already demonstrated that you know nothing about the faith except the Halloween urban legends.
Go back to playing with your wart-nosed paper doll.
After looking at her website, I'm beginning to think that several people have taken advantage of a stroke victim. And not just the people she thinks have taken advantage of her.
It shouldn't surprise me that the vanity publishing and "author services" pros wouldn't hesitate to take a semi-coherent stroke victim's money. But it's sickening.
Seriously, Lanaia, if you're telling the truth about Hill & Hill, you need to take a good look at everyone who has taken your money to publish a book under your name. Your enemies are not the people on this web site.
My writing is the Underworld, not Law.
Oh, that explains it: they don't give English classes in Hell.
Unless she meant she tortures the English language forever in a boiling lake of fire fire, in which case-- hey! Apt metaphor!
Clueless, clueless, clueless.
A moment Googling your hosts here would be so informative. Then again...
Reading over Cheryl at #78
Wow. You would have to have sentence by sentence amnesia for this:
Roval Publishing is a self-publishing company that specializes in digital and there are no fees. You pay for the package you wish to have.
to even remotely make sense.
Also, your lawyer's are highly recommended? Please do fill in the blank! I'm imagining all sorts of nouns after lawyer's -, but Mad Libs is only fun for so long.
As for you, "agent" Cheryl:
True lawyers will ask you to keep quiet if the papers were filed, there not yet.What sense does that make? If a lawsuit's going to be filed, they want you to shut up immediately. You are a shining example of why.
I do believe in the 3 fold, I haven't made an offical threat yet, just words for now.Threats are "just words". What do you imagine an "official threat" is?
Do you imagine you are fooling anyone here? Anyone new?
Underworld meaning I write about vampires, I also write mystery, sci-fi and I have children's series.
Research does the mind good. Good evening people.
I think all you people queried Cheryl Pillsbury and/or Roval Publishing and got REJECTED and that's why you are bringing all this hate.
(Someone had to come along and say that, so I thought it might as well be me.)
Lanaia, dear,
Could we talk meter for a minute? I see you've got ideas - the sine qua non of poetry - and you're using rhyme. ABAB is a good scheme (though you should perhaps rely more on similar sounds and less on using the same word twice over).
But what really walks a reader through the poem is the meter. It pulls them forward, gives the inner voice a rhythm. It lends momentum to the experience of reading a poem.
Wikipedia has some useful introductory articles on the subject. I'd suggest starting with this bit and then following the links to the various meters, particularly iambic pentameter.
Although it can seem daunting to write in a meter at first, you'll find the language naturally falls into the rhythm. And it helps you keep your line lengths even, which is generally considered a good trait.
I just got a bigger bucket of popcorn.
Excellent. Things look like they are still warming up and I would hate for us to run out, particularly as we seem to have good seats. Care for a beer?
Scraps, if you are going to be making lists, you might as well add that true agents don't charge fees.
Research does the mind good.
So do logic, common sense, and basic morals.
In AD 2007, writing was beginning.
What happen?
Somebody set up us the critique!
Yes they do and I'm a firmer believer in what I do and so do my friends. No one can ever change that.
Cheryl & Lanaia (or should i call you Mary, Lanaia?)
Do either of you have ANY remorse for an obvious theft? Whether or not Christopher Hill (yes i am aware of him.. i am as it happens Scottish) did write the offending words, you both should take some responsibility towards this.
Oh, out of interest, i do hope that the "proof" of Mr Hills involvement will be made apparent to Mr Gemmell's US agent (who, i am assured, is well versed in lawsuits and plagarism law)
I am a long time fan of David Gemmell, who attended his memorial service last October and with that time of year coming up again i can only think of the distress you are causing to Stella Gemmell (David's Window - in case you did not know that and i suspect that you did not.)
I really am quite disheartened that you are both too concerned with excuses and threats to actually put out a proper apology to Stella and the rest of his surviving family.
You should be ashamed of yourselves for being self-serving and grasping and you are both characters that David Gemmell certainly did NOT write about unless they came to a nasty end.
True lawyers will ask you to keep quiet if the papers were filed, there not yet.
Wrong.
Roval Publishing is a self-publishing company that specializes in digital and there are no fees. You pay for the package you wish to have.
If they're self-publishing, why does she need an agent?
I do believe in the 3 fold, I haven't made an offical threat yet, just words for now.
So "True witches will keep quiet if the spell is cast, its [sic-by-parallel] not yet"?
My lawyer's are highly recommended and I wouldn't trade them for anyone or anything.
Names?
My writing is the Underworld, not Law.
It's obviously not the latter, and from the way some of our resident Wiccas/Pagans/etc. are jumping on you, I don't think it's the former, either.
Yes, all parties have been informed of what took place and who set it up. We have placed the book on hold for a re-write so she can publish her book without anymore schandal and insults.
Placed on hold, sorry, long day and night.
Cheryl
Still no words of concern for the family of David Gemmell?? It would be nice if you could clarify that there has been a conversation and you ARE attempting to remedy the situation properly.
Lanaia #68:
I think I can accept that you were coached (and scammed) by Christopher Hill, but why then did he end up doing the actual writing? Why would a newbie writer (you) hire a ghost writer? Wouldn't you want to see your own work in a book with your own name on the cover?
We have placed the book on hold for a re-writeUh-huh. Like you can "rewrite" a plagiarized book.
Cheryl:
Well, my lawyer demands that you contact him. I have been told that he will be more than happy to remove the potentially "slanderous" material that you claim I have made from the webpages in question.
However, my lawyer demands you clean his outdoor grill first. It is very dirty and has some kind of black junk all on the lid, and inside it, and on the rack and gummed up in the propane tanks.
He also demands you use Formula 409 brand cleaner and Billo pads, not "any o'that generic store brand junk" either.
My lawyer says he wants you to do so and comply "before this Saturday", because he's planning "a really important legal barbeque".
I will provide his contact details if you'd like.
At the risk of saying something extremely obvious, the purported Cheryl Pillsbury has given her email address as "fknight420@charter.net", which sounds more like an F. Knight than a C. Pillsbury, so I wonder if a troll is having some fun at our expense.
That website has lots and lots of articles and just... lots of written stuff on it. Has anyone checked any of these others for plagiarism?
http://www.alongstoryshort.net/Archives.html
Woof. I don't envy the lawyers that task.
Yes they do and I'm a firmer [sic] believer in what I do and so do my friends.
No, they don't. Scammers can protest this all they want (and yes, you’re clearly a scam artist; agent who takes $ to hook up “writer” with self-publisher = scam artist), but the FIRST THING that you learn in this biz is that money flows FROM the agent to the author, not the other way round. Every PUBLISHED author knows this, which is why scammers like you prey on the weak, the hopeful, and the uninformed.
And we’re still waiting for the apology to Gemmell and his family.
If it's a troll, it's got a good act.
For an agent, that isn't a very professional address.
F. Knight than a C. Pillsbury, so I wonder if a troll is having some fun at our expense.
Nope, a google search turns up that she's a former trekker and big Forever Knight fan.
@12, I'm not sure what horrible things Ryoval Publishing would get up to, but I'm fairly sure that they wouldn't be as unoriginal and, well, dull as blatant plagiarism. Say what you like about the dear departed imaginary Baron, he was certainly... inventive.
(That book is the only one of Bujold's I find physically hard to read. I guess it strikes close to home if you had a twin brother, even if he never had a chance to become as driven and somewhat loony as Mark.)
A slightly different take on the situation, from Writer Beware.
I've done my due diligence: the Wikipedia page has been updated, in the blandest terms possible cause NPOV is a shy beastie and I didn't want to scare it off. Nor did I wish to suffer the tenfold wrath of someone who writes about witches!
#102, Cheryl Pillsbury used to write Forever Knight fanfiction.
You can find her work here, including links to her publishing site.
(Personally, I think the Gemmel family is entitled to demand an apology, but none of us are entitled to demand one for them.)
Lyli, at #62: we still haven't gotten an additional sock puppet, but we've gotten other things -- evident confusion between this blog and Dear Author, magickal threats, possibly magickal (at least invisible, though that could be done with technology, I suppose) lawyers, pleas to sympathy, a noticeable dearth of anything resembling repentance or apologies to David Gemmell's family in the recent comments from plaigiarist and agent, statements of blind support for friends and clients... will those do instead? Or should we hold out for another sock puppet?
Victoria Straus just posted:
http://accrispin.blogspot.com/2007/10/victoria-strauss-christopher-hill-redux.html
It might not be Lanaia's doing...
Lori Coulson @ 53: Oh, I suppose that most Wiccans in the U.S. haven't switched to the metric system yet. It can be much more convenient if you have people repeatedly harming each other in turn.
Our Esteemed Hosts, re: #68, and #s 32, 38, 46, etc. -- IP check, please?
That Writer Beware link convinces me more of what I said earlier: I think that, whatever her poor behavior in reacting to all this, Lanaia is just a bad writer and a stroke victim who has been prey to an unusually shameless set of scammers. One of whom is posting here, and is to my mind far more contemptible than Lanaia. Conning the ignorant is one thing; conning stroke victims ought to be beneath anyone.
Er... whoops! Undid previous wiki edit, readded to main page with reference to correct Gemmell book. I spellchecked but forgot to content check. :P
I doubt any regular here thought otherwise, but as a lawyer myself (with all the standard disclaimers about not being licensed in states other than Michigan and not undertaking to give anyone legal advice), let me point about that absolutely no basis for a defamation action is presented by anything said here . . .
An apology was not demanded on behalf of the Gemmell family, however, it would be very nice to see one.
Since Mr Hill won't be making one, it's only right that one should come from Cheryl Pillsbury on Mary Kellis' behalf.
We're getting to the point of Can't-Tell-The-Players-Without-A-Scorecard.
So:
We have Cheryl T. Pillsbury, Agent.
Cheryl is a fee-charger who has published her own work with:
A) XLibris Corporation, a pay-to-play vanity
B) PublishAmerica, a notorious vanity press
(twice!)
C) Outskirts Press
Who or what is Outskirts, you may ask? Yet another pay-to-play vanity press. Look ye at their main page:
The Future of Book Publishing is Here!
- Keep all your rights and more of the profits
- Set your own royalty and retail price
- Interior formatting & cover design is included
- Free marketing COACH after publication
- Print runs from 1 to 1000s
Ms. Pillsbury's favorite, however, is Roval Publishing, another POD pay-to-play vanity.
One of Cheryl Pillsbury's clients is the next character in our cast: Lanaia Lee.
Lanaia is not only an author, but a poet. And Cheryl seems to be not only Lanaia's agent, but co-author. Note that Lanaia's poetry allegedly appears in at least one of Cheryl's Angus Grady books.
There's more: A G Press, owned by Cheryl Pillsbury, appears to be involved in some manner in preparing Lanaia's forthcoming (yet oddly familiar)Of Atlantis for Roval Publishing.
I will make sure they know about this and dear Jane will have nightmares in 10 fold. Yes, I'm Wicca. says Cheryl.
Later, Cheryl says "I'm not a witch per say, [sic]...."
I do wish she'd make up her mind.
Lanaia has a witchcraft connection:
Her grandmother, a self-professed black witch, raised Lanaia after her mother died when she was eight years old.
Lanaia, who is apparently referred to as "Mary" by her agent, claims that she didn't plagiarize Dark Prince by David Gemmell, because she paid someone else to write her book. That someone else is allegedly Christopher Hill.
Christopher Hill, current whereabouts unknown, is/was a fee-charging literary agent who (depending on when you asked and who you asked) either lived in luxury in Spain or in a Council flat outside Edinburgh. Mr. Hill (and a number of other people who may have been his sockpuppets who appeared on messageboards to defend him) engaged in assorted frauds, including telling various of his clients that they had gotten major contracts with major American publishers. Whether he also engaged in ghostwriting, I know not.
I'm sure that whatever it was he handed to Lanaia, said Lanaia would have been aware that she, personally, hadn't written the material that appeared under her byline.
Which brings us all back to Jane Little, currently laboring under a ten-fold curse, who, while she may not have broken the story, certainly had fun with it.
To think that poor woman paid C. Hill four hundred a month...and this is what she got in return.
Thanks for the link, Victoria.
Much as it pains me, I feel compelled to point out that she did say: I apologize to Mr. Hemmel's memory and his family on her message board earlier.
If memory servers, Christopher Hill makes many of the same grammar errors as Cheryl Pillsbury, though I seem to remember slightly fewer typos and misspellings. For what it's worth.
If I am reading Victoria Strauss correctly, it is not out of the question that Hill rewrote stuff that was originally Lanaia's, then stuck the first chapter of the Gemmell book on the front, with Lanaia's characters. Lanaia sounds ignorant enough of real publishing -- abetted by people like her "agent" to sincerely believe that the writing was "hers" by all regular publishing standards. That's not much of a defense, but I repeat that if she's a stroke victim -- and I think her prose lends credence to that -- well, she's at worst a tool of much worse people.
Memory serves, even. There is a natural law of the universe that one cannot point out someone else's misspelling without making a spelling booboo oneself.
What sort of legal recourse does she have? I am a wee bit unsympathetic, I'll admit. Her actions since this blew out of the water, or I should say the actions made in her name, have been damning to her reputation and her credibility. But if this is the case what sort of legal action might she face and what sort might she be able to bring ?out?... My brain just fizzled and I can't think of the correct term there.
I also posted this over at Ms. Strauss blog
Aww, I got reverted. It hasn't happened until Reuters says so.
Velma @ #113. I think it makes up for the lack of extra sock puppets.
Cheryl Pillsbury wrote:
Underworld meaning I write about vampires, I also write mystery, sci-fi and I have children's series.
You said you had children's series. Is that some kind of disease? I need enlightment!
This thread just got me a visit from the police.
That is to say, a neighbourhood cop was walking past and heard these bizarre sounds from inside and knocked on the door to find out if I was all right.
Well, she was sort of right: I *was* choking. With laughter. I don't think I've read anything so amusing in years.
(Ms. Pillsbury's grammar and general coherence are truly *remarkable*. I'm not sure whether to consider this whole affair pitiable, despicable, or awe-inspiring, so I'm just settling for utterly hilarious.)
My take is the same as Scraps' take.
It's probably worth everyone reading Victoria's account. Ms. Lee, at least, may have been the victim in this particular case. I'm inclined to have some compassion--or at least to withhold hostility--for her, and to save that for the real scammers in this case. (And yes, I agree there's more than one.)
I want to thank you all for this afternoon's amusement.
Dear Dog. What a fiasco. See, now if it were me, I'd be shocked and horrified and outraged when I realized what my ghostwriter had done. Of course, I might have googled the opening line, just to be sure. Then again, maybe not.
I wouldn't be defensive and throwing around baseless threats of legal action. Apparently Cheryl went to the PA/BB school of law. Dragoons!
It's really such a shame to see two people so obviously clueless about publishing trying to have an argument with those who do.
Really, Cheryl... Xlibris AND PA??? And you really think you know about publishing?? You take MONEY from people to hook them up with vanity presses?
I'm sure we'll be seeing your name on one of Victoria and Ann's list in the near future.
And don't threaten people with magic. It makes you look foolish, and tells those of us who know how to use it properly that you...don't. Or else you'd never even consider such a thing for fear of it whiplashing back on you. Times three. Believe me, you don't want that.
For people who throw stones at glasses houses should be very cautious about speaking before they know the truth.
The cliche is "people who live in glass houses shouldn't throw stones". It means "If you have a problem, you shouldn't point out that other people have the same problem"; it has nothing to do with shaky claims, which I believe is what you're alleging here. As far as I know no one at Making Light has ever been accused of plagarism.
...dear Jane will have nightmares in 10 fold.
Who the heck is Jane?
Yes, I'm Wicca.
If so, you should know that 1)it's threefold, not tenfold and 2)making threats of magical attack is a big ol' no-no.
I was just informed, the author has already set the motions for the lawsuit, be prepared.
"Oooooh, I'm so scared." Name! That! Quote!
You were told by the lawyer not to post anything related to this issue, first amendement does not apply.
Situations in which the First Amendment does not apply are few and far between, and this is assuredly not one of them. You may with to read up.
I have made a copy of this site for proof,
No need; it's not going anywhere.
Have a ducky day.
Dude, you just have to wonder. I doubt she's got the capacity for that much sarcasm, which implies that it's just something she appends to everything...
Shadowsong @ 127... Aww, I got reverted
You fell inside an Evolving Machine stuck in reverse?
Bloody hell. Way to cure fits of hilarity.
I've just read Victoria Strauss's post. This is awful, if she's right and this is a severely disabled woman being conned.
The whole thing reeks of desperation, to some extent on Lanaia's part (which is entirely forgiveable) and much more on Hill's (which is not).
An entire fake manuscript is probably more work than even a forger as prolific as Hill would normally be expected to do. I can almost see Hill sitting there, this subset of his scam threatening to fall apart around him, desperately cobbling together anything he can lay his hands on now that his mark has demanded proof that he'd been doing something useful.
(I still wonder why Hill does what he does. It sounds like it's much more work than actually doing the job he's pretending to do would be. Maybe this too is a sign of desperation: he started out with a quick scam, got deeper, and by the time the work mounted to the degree that it would be easier to do the job honestly, everybody in the field knew who he was, so he had no *choice* but to be dishonest: there's no way real publishers would give him the time of day, or believe claims of honesty even if they were true. Just a guess...)
Serge @ 135: Exactly. I need to be careful; I fear my opposable thumbs may be the next to go.
(Don't mind me, I've been looking at cute polydactyl kitties. I have "opposable thumbs" and "teaching cats to use matches" on the brain.)
Here's what happened:
I received an email granting me the honor of doing an interview with the author. A sample interview was included as well as a link to the work so I could see for myself her work. I emailed a fantasy author, Ilona Andrew, and she came back within five minutes saying this was Gemmell’s work. So we should all thank Ilona. She then posted at Gemmell's fan forum - Legend Readers.
I held off posting about the plagiarism issue. I emailed the Mary/Lanaia and received emails back from her and the agent to see if they wanted to retract the claims they were making on the website. The author claimed “If Atlantis” (instead of “Of Atlantis”) was her own work; she made threatening legal noises and so did her agent. So I posted.
I await the suit papers and the boils. Will keep you all posted on both accounts.
My sympathy for the author isn't very high because she is trying to pass off someone else's work (ie. the ghostwriter) as her unique voice; as the voice of her heart which seems pretty dishonest to me.
Anyway, I had to get permission from Ilona Andrew to tell how I found out and she acquiesced after some pressure.
Comments on Weirdly Similar....: