That website has lots and lots of articles and just... lots of written stuff on it. Has anyone checked any of these others for plagiarism?

http://www.alongstoryshort.net/Archives.html

Woof. I don't envy the lawyers that task.

Posted October 11, 2007 6:45 PM by jmmcdermott

Yes they do and I'm a firmer [sic] believer in what I do and so do my friends.

No, they don't. Scammers can protest this all they want (and yes, you’re clearly a scam artist; agent who takes $ to hook up “writer” with self-publisher = scam artist), but the FIRST THING that you learn in this biz is that money flows FROM the agent to the author, not the other way round. Every PUBLISHED author knows this, which is why scammers like you prey on the weak, the hopeful, and the uninformed.

And we’re still waiting for the apology to Gemmell and his family.

Posted October 11, 2007 6:46 PM by Kalen Hughes

If it's a troll, it's got a good act.

Posted October 11, 2007 6:46 PM by Scraps

For an agent, that isn't a very professional address.

Posted October 11, 2007 6:47 PM by Lyli

F. Knight than a C. Pillsbury, so I wonder if a troll is having some fun at our expense.

Nope, a google search turns up that she's a former trekker and big Forever Knight fan.

Posted October 11, 2007 6:48 PM by Shawn Struck

@12, I'm not sure what horrible things Ryoval Publishing would get up to, but I'm fairly sure that they wouldn't be as unoriginal and, well, dull as blatant plagiarism. Say what you like about the dear departed imaginary Baron, he was certainly... inventive.

(That book is the only one of Bujold's I find physically hard to read. I guess it strikes close to home if you had a twin brother, even if he never had a chance to become as driven and somewhat loony as Mark.)

Posted October 11, 2007 6:49 PM by Nix

A slightly different take on the situation, from Writer Beware.

Posted October 11, 2007 6:49 PM by Victoria Strauss

I've done my due diligence: the Wikipedia page has been updated, in the blandest terms possible cause NPOV is a shy beastie and I didn't want to scare it off. Nor did I wish to suffer the tenfold wrath of someone who writes about witches!

Posted October 11, 2007 6:49 PM by shadowsong

#102, Cheryl Pillsbury used to write Forever Knight fanfiction.

You can find her work here, including links to her publishing site.

Posted October 11, 2007 6:50 PM by tasha

(Personally, I think the Gemmel family is entitled to demand an apology, but none of us are entitled to demand one for them.)

Posted October 11, 2007 6:50 PM by Scraps

Lyli, at #62: we still haven't gotten an additional sock puppet, but we've gotten other things -- evident confusion between this blog and Dear Author, magickal threats, possibly magickal (at least invisible, though that could be done with technology, I suppose) lawyers, pleas to sympathy, a noticeable dearth of anything resembling repentance or apologies to David Gemmell's family in the recent comments from plaigiarist and agent, statements of blind support for friends and clients... will those do instead? Or should we hold out for another sock puppet?

Posted October 11, 2007 6:56 PM by Velma

Victoria Straus just posted:

http://accrispin.blogspot.com/2007/10/victoria-strauss-christopher-hill-redux.html

It might not be Lanaia's doing...

Posted October 11, 2007 6:56 PM by Wendy

Lori Coulson @ 53: Oh, I suppose that most Wiccans in the U.S. haven't switched to the metric system yet. It can be much more convenient if you have people repeatedly harming each other in turn.

Our Esteemed Hosts, re: #68, and #s 32, 38, 46, etc. -- IP check, please?

Posted October 11, 2007 6:57 PM by Joel Polowin

That Writer Beware link convinces me more of what I said earlier: I think that, whatever her poor behavior in reacting to all this, Lanaia is just a bad writer and a stroke victim who has been prey to an unusually shameless set of scammers. One of whom is posting here, and is to my mind far more contemptible than Lanaia. Conning the ignorant is one thing; conning stroke victims ought to be beneath anyone.

Posted October 11, 2007 6:57 PM by Scraps

Er... whoops! Undid previous wiki edit, readded to main page with reference to correct Gemmell book. I spellchecked but forgot to content check. :P

Posted October 11, 2007 6:57 PM by shadowsong

I doubt any regular here thought otherwise, but as a lawyer myself (with all the standard disclaimers about not being licensed in states other than Michigan and not undertaking to give anyone legal advice), let me point about that absolutely no basis for a defamation action is presented by anything said here . . .

Posted October 11, 2007 7:02 PM by rea

An apology was not demanded on behalf of the Gemmell family, however, it would be very nice to see one.

Since Mr Hill won't be making one, it's only right that one should come from Cheryl Pillsbury on Mary Kellis' behalf.

Posted October 11, 2007 7:03 PM by Anna Pearson

We're getting to the point of Can't-Tell-The-Players-Without-A-Scorecard.

So:

We have Cheryl T. Pillsbury, Agent.

Cheryl is a fee-charger who has published her own work with:

A) XLibris Corporation, a pay-to-play vanity
B) PublishAmerica, a notorious vanity press
(twice!)
C) Outskirts Press

Who or what is Outskirts, you may ask? Yet another pay-to-play vanity press. Look ye at their main page:

The Future of Book Publishing is Here!

• Keep all your rights and more of the profits
  
• Set your own royalty and retail price
  
• Interior formatting & cover design is included
  
• Free marketing COACH after publication
  
• Print runs from 1 to 1000s
  

Ms. Pillsbury's favorite, however, is Roval Publishing, another POD pay-to-play vanity.

One of Cheryl Pillsbury's clients is the next character in our cast: Lanaia Lee.

Lanaia is not only an author, but a poet. And Cheryl seems to be not only Lanaia's agent, but co-author. Note that Lanaia's poetry allegedly appears in at least one of Cheryl's Angus Grady books.

There's more: A G Press, owned by Cheryl Pillsbury, appears to be involved in some manner in preparing Lanaia's forthcoming (yet oddly familiar)Of Atlantis for Roval Publishing.

I will make sure they know about this and dear Jane will have nightmares in 10 fold. Yes, I'm Wicca. says Cheryl.

Later, Cheryl says "I'm not a witch per say, [sic]...."

I do wish she'd make up her mind.

Lanaia has a witchcraft connection:

Her grandmother, a self-professed black witch, raised Lanaia after her mother died when she was eight years old.

Lanaia, who is apparently referred to as "Mary" by her agent, claims that she didn't plagiarize Dark Prince by David Gemmell, because she paid someone else to write her book. That someone else is allegedly Christopher Hill.

Christopher Hill, current whereabouts unknown, is/was a fee-charging literary agent who (depending on when you asked and who you asked) either lived in luxury in Spain or in a Council flat outside Edinburgh. Mr. Hill (and a number of other people who may have been his sockpuppets who appeared on messageboards to defend him) engaged in assorted frauds, including telling various of his clients that they had gotten major contracts with major American publishers. Whether he also engaged in ghostwriting, I know not.

I'm sure that whatever it was he handed to Lanaia, said Lanaia would have been aware that she, personally, hadn't written the material that appeared under her byline.

Which brings us all back to Jane Little, currently laboring under a ten-fold curse, who, while she may not have broken the story, certainly had fun with it.

Posted October 11, 2007 7:04 PM by James D. Macdonald

To think that poor woman paid C. Hill four hundred a month...and this is what she got in return.

Thanks for the link, Victoria.

Posted October 11, 2007 7:05 PM by ghost

Much as it pains me, I feel compelled to point out that she did say: I apologize to Mr. Hemmel's memory and his family on her message board earlier.

Posted October 11, 2007 7:06 PM by tasha

If memory servers, Christopher Hill makes many of the same grammar errors as Cheryl Pillsbury, though I seem to remember slightly fewer typos and misspellings. For what it's worth.

Posted October 11, 2007 7:09 PM by Leva Cygnet

If I am reading Victoria Strauss correctly, it is not out of the question that Hill rewrote stuff that was originally Lanaia's, then stuck the first chapter of the Gemmell book on the front, with Lanaia's characters. Lanaia sounds ignorant enough of real publishing -- abetted by people like her "agent" to sincerely believe that the writing was "hers" by all regular publishing standards. That's not much of a defense, but I repeat that if she's a stroke victim -- and I think her prose lends credence to that -- well, she's at worst a tool of much worse people.

Posted October 11, 2007 7:12 PM by Scraps

Memory serves, even. There is a natural law of the universe that one cannot point out someone else's misspelling without making a spelling booboo oneself.

Posted October 11, 2007 7:12 PM by Leva Cygnet

What sort of legal recourse does she have? I am a wee bit unsympathetic, I'll admit. Her actions since this blew out of the water, or I should say the actions made in her name, have been damning to her reputation and her credibility. But if this is the case what sort of legal action might she face and what sort might she be able to bring ?out?... My brain just fizzled and I can't think of the correct term there.

I also posted this over at Ms. Strauss blog

Posted October 11, 2007 7:22 PM by emmigeek

Aww, I got reverted. It hasn't happened until Reuters says so.

Posted October 11, 2007 7:24 PM by shadowsong

Velma @ #113. I think it makes up for the lack of extra sock puppets.

Posted October 11, 2007 7:27 PM by Lyli

Cheryl Pillsbury wrote:

Underworld meaning I write about vampires, I also write mystery, sci-fi and I have children's series.

You said you had children's series. Is that some kind of disease? I need enlightment!

Posted October 11, 2007 7:32 PM by Daybert

This thread just got me a visit from the police.

That is to say, a neighbourhood cop was walking past and heard these bizarre sounds from inside and knocked on the door to find out if I was all right.

Well, she was sort of right: I *was* choking. With laughter. I don't think I've read anything so amusing in years.

(Ms. Pillsbury's grammar and general coherence are truly *remarkable*. I'm not sure whether to consider this whole affair pitiable, despicable, or awe-inspiring, so I'm just settling for utterly hilarious.)

Posted October 11, 2007 7:38 PM by Nix

My take is the same as Scraps' take.

It's probably worth everyone reading Victoria's account. Ms. Lee, at least, may have been the victim in this particular case. I'm inclined to have some compassion--or at least to withhold hostility--for her, and to save that for the real scammers in this case. (And yes, I agree there's more than one.)

Posted October 11, 2007 7:42 PM by Janni

I want to thank you all for this afternoon's amusement.

Posted October 11, 2007 7:42 PM by beth meacham

Dear Dog. What a fiasco. See, now if it were me, I'd be shocked and horrified and outraged when I realized what my ghostwriter had done. Of course, I might have googled the opening line, just to be sure. Then again, maybe not.

I wouldn't be defensive and throwing around baseless threats of legal action. Apparently Cheryl went to the PA/BB school of law. Dragoons!

It's really such a shame to see two people so obviously clueless about publishing trying to have an argument with those who do.

Really, Cheryl... Xlibris AND PA??? And you really think you know about publishing?? You take MONEY from people to hook them up with vanity presses?

I'm sure we'll be seeing your name on one of Victoria and Ann's list in the near future.

And don't threaten people with magic. It makes you look foolish, and tells those of us who know how to use it properly that you...don't. Or else you'd never even consider such a thing for fear of it whiplashing back on you. Times three. Believe me, you don't want that.

Posted October 11, 2007 7:46 PM by Christine

For people who throw stones at glasses houses should be very cautious about speaking before they know the truth.

The cliche is "people who live in glass houses shouldn't throw stones". It means "If you have a problem, you shouldn't point out that other people have the same problem"; it has nothing to do with shaky claims, which I believe is what you're alleging here. As far as I know no one at Making Light has ever been accused of plagarism.

...dear Jane will have nightmares in 10 fold.

Who the heck is Jane?

Yes, I'm Wicca.

If so, you should know that 1)it's threefold, not tenfold and 2)making threats of magical attack is a big ol' no-no.

I was just informed, the author has already set the motions for the lawsuit, be prepared.

"Oooooh, I'm so scared." Name! That! Quote!

You were told by the lawyer not to post anything related to this issue, first amendement does not apply.

Situations in which the First Amendment does not apply are few and far between, and this is assuredly not one of them. You may with to read up.

I have made a copy of this site for proof,

No need; it's not going anywhere.

Have a ducky day.

Dude, you just have to wonder. I doubt she's got the capacity for that much sarcasm, which implies that it's just something she appends to everything...

Posted October 11, 2007 7:47 PM by Carrie S.

Shadowsong @ 127... Aww, I got reverted

You fell inside an Evolving Machine stuck in reverse?

Posted October 11, 2007 7:49 PM by Serge

Bloody hell. Way to cure fits of hilarity.

I've just read Victoria Strauss's post. This is awful, if she's right and this is a severely disabled woman being conned.

The whole thing reeks of desperation, to some extent on Lanaia's part (which is entirely forgiveable) and much more on Hill's (which is not).

An entire fake manuscript is probably more work than even a forger as prolific as Hill would normally be expected to do. I can almost see Hill sitting there, this subset of his scam threatening to fall apart around him, desperately cobbling together anything he can lay his hands on now that his mark has demanded proof that he'd been doing something useful.

(I still wonder why Hill does what he does. It sounds like it's much more work than actually doing the job he's pretending to do would be. Maybe this too is a sign of desperation: he started out with a quick scam, got deeper, and by the time the work mounted to the degree that it would be easier to do the job honestly, everybody in the field knew who he was, so he had no *choice* but to be dishonest: there's no way real publishers would give him the time of day, or believe claims of honesty even if they were true. Just a guess...)

Posted October 11, 2007 7:51 PM by Nix

Serge @ 135: Exactly. I need to be careful; I fear my opposable thumbs may be the next to go.

(Don't mind me, I've been looking at cute polydactyl kitties. I have "opposable thumbs" and "teaching cats to use matches" on the brain.)

Posted October 11, 2007 7:52 PM by shadowsong

Here's what happened:

I received an email granting me the honor of doing an interview with the author. A sample interview was included as well as a link to the work so I could see for myself her work. I emailed a fantasy author, Ilona Andrew, and she came back within five minutes saying this was Gemmell’s work. So we should all thank Ilona. She then posted at Gemmell's fan forum - Legend Readers.

I held off posting about the plagiarism issue. I emailed the Mary/Lanaia and received emails back from her and the agent to see if they wanted to retract the claims they were making on the website. The author claimed “If Atlantis” (instead of “Of Atlantis”) was her own work; she made threatening legal noises and so did her agent. So I posted.

I await the suit papers and the boils. Will keep you all posted on both accounts.

My sympathy for the author isn't very high because she is trying to pass off someone else's work (ie. the ghostwriter) as her unique voice; as the voice of her heart which seems pretty dishonest to me.

Anyway, I had to get permission from Ilona Andrew to tell how I found out and she acquiesced after some pressure.

Posted October 11, 2007 7:57 PM by Jane

Keep em' coming, you bettter be very afraid, jane as an sdult I thought you would throughly reasearch, well you heard Victoria Strass, she knowa!
Lanaik

Posted October 11, 2007 8:02 PM by Lanaia

This is from Linaia's bio:

"I write because I feel each person has something unique to share with the world and writing is my gift to share"

Are you freaking kidding??? You actually write? Wow, I'm surprised you'd say that since the notion has become rather doubtful over the course of the last hours. And what is it that you have to "share with the world"? Your stupidity? Please save it!

It's completely amusing how you could say "writing is my gift to share." Is it, really? In that case, your writing is rather boring and monotonous, for it reads:

Ctrl C + Ctrl V + Ctrl C + Crtl V...

Good luck with that!

Posted October 11, 2007 8:05 PM by Daybert

shadowsong @ 137... I take it you've lost your sixth finger by now. Don't stay inside the Machine too long or you'll revert to the Dubya level.

Posted October 11, 2007 8:07 PM by Serge

Here's a screenshot of Lanaia's apology to Mr. Gemmell and his family.

Next, I note that Lanaia makes a lot of errors with adjacent letters on the keyboard that fall between the right and left hands (G/H, T/Y).

Posted October 11, 2007 8:08 PM by James D. Macdonald

Lori, #28, those are the two most common types of strokes. I had a watershed infarct (not my brain) which happens when you don't get blood to your brain for a while. Mine was caused by being given nifedipine sublingually while in the hospital and it dropped my BP so low so fast that parts of my brain died from lack of oxygen.

Posted October 11, 2007 8:14 PM by Marilee

Oy vey, those folks should be quarantined as a danger to the public... after all, the stupid might be catching!

It does give me an idea for an amusing short-story opening, but this might well have been used already:

Start it off with the first few lines of some really classic, memorable opening, then just as the reader recognizes it, the paragraph breaks to:

WHAP! The pages of the manuscript scattered down the wall. "Darn, that didn't even make a decent bang."

and go on with your story featuring an editor as protagonist....

Posted October 11, 2007 8:17 PM by David Harmon

You know, guys, I've had three strokes, including the big one that came with a coma. I was probably smarter than Mary to start with, but I'm not a "stroke victim" as the later posts mean. Not everybody loses all sense when they have strokes. I can't account for her miscarriages.

Posted October 11, 2007 8:23 PM by Marilee

Crap. Andrews. Ilona Andrews.

Posted October 11, 2007 8:26 PM by Jane

Lanaia # 139

Keep em' coming, you bettter be very afraid, jane as an sdult I thought you would throughly reasearch, well you heard Victoria Strass, she knowa!
Lanaik

Stop making fun of yourself, Lanaia. How you can say you're a writer if you can't proof-read what you write? You're pathetic.

Posted October 11, 2007 8:28 PM by Daybert

I brought brownies...

I feel like I should feel sorry for someone -- the Gemmell family, I suppose -- but I'm laughing too hard. Woo, these people are silly. You say money changed hands here?

Posted October 11, 2007 8:29 PM by Lizzy L

But, daaammnnn. I do seem to miss all the fun.

Posted October 11, 2007 8:40 PM by Greg London

Count me in as another Bujold fan who keeps seeing Ryoval Publishing.

While I have a small modicum of sympathy for Ms. Lee, who seems to have been doubly scammed, I have none for her agent.

I DO have much sympathy for the poor, abused commas forced to dress in drag as periods. Or maybe it's the other way round. Either way, "Agent" Pillsbury's approach to punctuation reminds me of this quote from Terry Pratchett's Jingo: There may be a lot of things I'm not good at, thought Vimes, but at least I don't treat the punctuation of a sentence like a game of Pin the Tail on the Donkey...

Posted October 11, 2007 8:44 PM by PixelFish

Yep, it looks like money changed hands. From Lanaia to Cheryl, and from Lanaia to Christopher Hill, and from Lanaia to Roval.

What's wrong with that picture?

Posted October 11, 2007 8:45 PM by James D. Macdonald

I've done some stupid things in my life. One of the things I learned early on about the enterprise of doing stupid things is that you really have no choice but to own up to them when you get called on having done them.

What's the big deal? Everybody does stupid things in their lives. The only unforgivable thing about having done them is trying to lie about them and get all aggressive about them afterward. I just don't see how people can be so stupid about something like this.

You can't be forgiven for half-assed things you make up so you can ask to be forgiven for them in lieu of owning up to the actual stupid thing you did. People aren't that stupid. I guess people somehow forget they are dealing with people in these situations. People know people, better than anybody does. Nobody falls for it.

Just give it up. Just say "I did an idiot thing. Here's the exact idiot thing I did. I did an even more idiot thing in trying to make you think I didn't do the idiot thing in the first place. I'm sorry."

If you mean it, if you say it sincerely (remember: people know people so you won't fool anybody if you try to bullshit them), you will be shocked, appalled even, at how quickly you are forgiven.

Posted October 11, 2007 8:59 PM by Michael Weholt

Cheryl@78 wrote: "My lawyer's are highly recommended and I wouldn't trade them for anyone or anything."

Uh. Lanaia, if you're still around - are you paying money to any lawyer who's been recommended by Cheryl? I really think you're better off getting your own lawyer who's got nothing to do with Hill, Roval, or Cheryl, or anyone else who's ever asked you for money to help publish your book.

Posted October 11, 2007 9:02 PM by Zeborah

It is awfully convenient, though, that the one person the author is pointing her finger at cannot be located, and therefore, cannot be expected to rise to his own defense. How very tidy.

Posted October 11, 2007 9:09 PM by DB

Just a note about the stroke issue.

I am not a medical professional. I am not qualified to judge whether this woman actually had a debilitating stroke or not, or whether this particular stroke had anything to do with her judgment (or lack thereof).

Whether it is used as an excuse or not, it is not something I feel worthy of further discussion without more and better documentation.

Others will likely disagree, but that's my buck-fifty.

Posted October 11, 2007 9:13 PM by jmmcdermott

If I'm reading Victoria right, Lanaia paid Christopher Hill $400/month for two years to ghost-write her book.

That works out to nearly $10K.

For less than half of that she could have had a real book written by a real writer, and it wouldn't have taken any two years to get it, either.

The two biggest villains I see in this piece are Cheryl and Christopher. Roval is just a bush-league POD/vanity, no more or less honest than any of a thousand others just like it.

Lanaia -- I think there's a problem with the way she sees the world, but with guides like Cheryl and Christopher there wasn't much chance of her ever finding out anything about writing or publishing. It isn't beyond the realm of belief that Cheryl was playing witchie-poo headgames on Lanaia the whole time.

Other subjects: miscarriages and stroke can both be related to hypertension. Lanaia's disability from the stroke would be directly related to what part(s) of her brain were affected. We know there's some motor dysfunction. I wouldn't be at all surprised by some cognitive or emotional issues.

Posted October 11, 2007 9:13 PM by James D. Macdonald

jane as an sdult I thought you would throughly reasearch, well you heard Victoria Strass, she knowa!
Lanaik

My dear, you're hardly one who should be admonishing anyone about a lack of research when you can't even bother to research the text found within your own book.

Posted October 11, 2007 9:18 PM by Shelly

So either she did it, and is trying her best to cover it up with a well known ghost writer (unlikely as the Victoria Strauss article does lend credit to her defense), or she payed $400 per month to an individual whom she knew was a conman/scammer and still had the audacity to deny it after being caught. She then removes comments from her site but not the offending material? Nothing she or her agent have done since this came to light warrants any kind of sympathy at all.

Also, is #139 really Lanaia (unsure of the spelling, as it seems the posts author is as well)?

Posted October 11, 2007 9:48 PM by steve

Sorry I was supposed to type well known conman, not ghostwriter.

Posted October 11, 2007 9:52 PM by steve

The IP numbers for all the "Lanaia" posts are consistent with one another. The IP numbers for all the "Cheryl Pillsbury" posts are consistent with one another. They come from two different ISPs.

Not that that proves anything.

The whole thing is weird.

A suggestion has been raised elsewhere that perhaps the Scottish tabloids might be interested in the story of a local scammer taking a disabled woman for $400 a month and giving her a plagiarized book in return.

Posted October 11, 2007 9:54 PM by James D. Macdonald

Ah, was just curious, as it seemed an even nastier read than the others. Painful to read, although this time of the morning doesn't help with it. Everything worth being said has already been so though so off to bed with me.

Posted October 11, 2007 10:06 PM by steve

DB (comment 154), did you read Victoria Strauss's post? The evidence presented there is more than just Lanaia Lee pointing her finger at someone who can't be located.

Marilee, I certainly did not mean to paint any broad picture of stroke sufferers, and I very much apologize if it came across that way.

Posted October 11, 2007 10:07 PM by Scraps

Marilee @143 (and very much tangential to topic)

That site you linked with the brain slices has just absorbed over half an hour of time I should have spent sleeping.

Thanks!

(Braiiiiiinnnnzzzz....)

Posted October 11, 2007 10:27 PM by Thena

A realise this is entirely beside the main point, but I feel it needs to be picked up:

Dorothy Rothschild @ #16 writes (about a different plagiarism case) I have to say that while I understand the logic of properly citing your own work, it does seem odd to be accused of plagiarizing yourself.

I don't see anything in the linked article that says he was accused of plagiarizing from himself. The phrase "accused of plagiarizing parts of his 1984 doctoral dissertation" is admittedly ambiguous, but the details provided make it clear that what is meant is that parts of the dissertation were created by plagiarizing from others.

Now, back to your regular (regular? it's like clockwork, lately) entertainment...

Posted October 11, 2007 10:53 PM by Paul A.

I noticed the "400 dollars a month for two years" fee C. Hill got, just like Mr. Macdonald. That's a nice chunk of change--but it isn't enough to live on.

Is L. Lee the only client Hill had during that time? Is 'Of Atlantis' the only book that will appear from Hill's ghostly fingers? Or will other wistful wannabes eventually pop up with 'manuscripts' manufactured from filched first chapters and identical (or nearly identical, given name changes) hind ends?

If I were this kind of plagiarist, I wouldn't want to spend two years of my time for a measly 400 bucks a month--US dollars or otherwise. But for 400 a month x 10 clients--okay.

(R. takes her cynical self and stuffs it back under her rock.)

Posted October 11, 2007 11:43 PM by Renee

PixelFish, #150: Yeah, now I can't read it any other way. Ed, that was the equivalent of a really compelling earworm!

Posted October 11, 2007 11:51 PM by Lee

There was a news story recently about some guy who went into a supermarket and tried to get change for a $1,000,000 dollar bill. When the store refused to cash it, and also refused to give him back his very obviously counterfeit money, he became angry and started breaking stuff.

I see very little difference between that guy (who was apparently dumb enough to believe the bill was real) and Lanaia (who was dumb enough to pay a "ghostwriter" she'd already been told was a scam artist and an "agent" who is nearly illiterate to publish a novel she knew she didn't write and probably didn't even read.) In both cases they were victims of a con, yes, but it was their own greed, dishonesty, and stupidity that led them there.

Posted October 11, 2007 11:54 PM by Suzanne

Wandering in after a long day...I hardly know whether to weep or giggle. Probably both. I think Victoria's right and Laiana (?) has been taken by Hill, Pillsbury, and who the hell knows what else.

I feel awful for Gemmel's family; this is hardly what they need to be dealing with...

Posted October 11, 2007 11:55 PM by Madeleine Robins

I just love the bit at #71 where Cheryl actually admits - up front and unblushing - to being a scam agent. Think of it: she's persuaded some number of deeply clueless people to pay her to send their work to a vanity press that then charges them to print it. This is a cottage-industry scam as perennial as dust bunnies, but Cheryl has been bottom-feeding for so long that she's forgotten that there is such a thing as real publishing.

But that's not all, no, no, wait, there's more! Some subset of those deeply clueless people pay someone else to write the work in the first place, and then claim that it's their own. Well, it is, isn't it? They bought it, didn't they? Paid down good money for it, too!

Oh dear, oh dear. Why do all the really cool things happen while I'm asleep? Twelve hours time difference will do that to you...

Claude, I'll take that beer, and thank you. Have one of these prawns, straight off the barbie.

Posted October 11, 2007 11:56 PM by Dave Luckett

Slander can cause a major lawsuit from the author and the publisher mentioned, because I will make sure they know about this and dear Jane will have nightmares in 10 fold. Yes, I'm Wicca.

Cheryl? "Wicca" is the noun. "Wiccan" is the verb. You are not Wicca any more than that one soldier ant was the colony.

(Which movie was that? I get them confused. Antz or the other one? I think it was Antz.)

As for threatening Dear Jane with nightmare hexes, you've already been told several times on this page that such action falls way outside the ethical constraints of Wicca. I've known some witches to content themselves with putting photos of nasty people in the freezer, though.

(My delight in Making Light renews--yes, even "tenfold"--as its denizens trounce Cheryl equally for lawyer-cartooney, for being a fee-charging agent, and for inappropriate use of religion.)

Posted October 11, 2007 11:58 PM by Nicole J. LeBoeuf-Little

I'm sorry I came too late to read this thread from the beginning, but...

Is this woman saying she hired a ghost writer to pen a novel for a vanity publisher? Or have I misread something?

If so it's horribly sad, like hiring a models to stand in for you in your wedding photos.

Posted October 12, 2007 12:00 AM by Matt Stevens

Damn, and I missed out on all this today?

Where is my popcorn? My soda? My soundtrack?

They can't make movies this good...

(munch, munch, munch....)

Posted October 12, 2007 12:10 AM by CommunityRadioVet

"Cartooney" comes from news.admin.net-abuse.email. It's a cartoon of a lawsuite (spelling from the same source).

A real lawyer wouldn't advise a client to shut up until the papers are filed. A real lawyer would advise a client to shut up until the judge decides how much they'll get (and even longer, if there might be an appeal).

The ratio of lawsuits threatened on the Internet to those actually filed is approximately infinity to three.

Posted October 12, 2007 12:24 AM by Seth Breidbart

Is it okay to wear spats and a silk cravat with a law suit? It is after Labor Day and all . . .

Posted October 12, 2007 1:01 AM by Scott

Seth @ 173:
The ratio of lawsuits threatened on the Internet to those actually filed is approximately infinity to three.

That deserves to be a button or a sig or both.

Posted October 12, 2007 1:03 AM by Elyse Grasso

Nicole@170--Actually, "Wiccan" is both an adjective and a noun...but not a verb.

/pedantry

Plagiarism, scam agents, pay-to-publish...egad, this whole situation leaves me shaking my head in wonder...

Posted October 12, 2007 2:00 AM by Syd

Syd, you are correct. Your pedantry is appreciated. (Man, I hate it when I sabotage myself with this sort of thing.) What I should have said was, "Wicca is the religion; 'Wiccan' is the word describing a practitioner of the religion. You, madam, are not my religion, and you're probably not of it, either."

But speaking of Wicca, the "infinity to three" ratio of lawsuits threatened to lawsuits actually filed sounds weirdly consonant with the whole "threefold law" subthread. Hee.

Posted October 12, 2007 2:09 AM by Nicole J. LeBoeuf-Little

wrt the Mary/Lanaia names, the blurb here (posted back on June 17th) begins, "My name is Mary Kellis pen name Lanaia Lee. I have a series of books, known as Of Atlantis, possibly the next Harry Potter, according to my literary agent."

*speechless*

Posted October 12, 2007 2:33 AM by Julie L.

It seems to be a characteristic of the scam artist that they believe money and contracts wash away all sin.

In this they seem to be like many otherwise reputable large businesses that might be pointed to as examples of the sociopathic tendency in corporate governance.

The world is filled with liars, even the politicians are outsourcing the process, and, at times, honesty seems futile.

Posted October 12, 2007 2:41 AM by Dave Bell

I am now tempted to write a short story set in the publishing business, in a world where magic exists. After all, it stands to reason that, when you plagiarise a spell, you'll get worse things than writs coming through your door.

(That's why pirate editions are called pirate editions. They're printed on board ships at sea, in order to protect them from hexes, which have difficulty crossing water...)

Posted October 12, 2007 5:12 AM by ajay

I do something wrong - in this case, plagiarise a writer whose shoes I am not fit to lick. I get caught out. I say, no, it was my agent (ie person employed to do something for me, NOT my 'literary agent')

And that makes it okay?

Er, no. A principal is legally responsible for their agent's acts if they are within the terms of the contract.

The buck stops with you, Lainia, whatever your state of health.

Posted October 12, 2007 5:50 AM by martyn44

ajay:

That's why pirate editions are called pirate editions. They're printed on board ships at sea, in order to protect them from hexes, which have difficulty crossing water...

If you include barefoot sales agents (because the sales system for books is subscription-based as Twain described) so that spells thrown at them will be earthed harmlessly and a protagonist who loses a finger...well, it would be closer to the theme of the thread wouldn't it?

(Actually, it sounds like lots and lots of fun!)

Posted October 12, 2007 6:13 AM by Bruce E. Durocher II

Paul A @ 164 - while the article itself never directly states that copying his own thesis is plagiarism, the headers do: 'Poshard Faces New Plagiarism Allegations / Report Says SIU President Copied Parts Of Master's Thesis'. Given that this connection *isn't* played up in the article, it may be a case of 'let's use the word that gets attention rather than something more accurate that isn't as jazzy'; however, they're selling this article as a) more alleged plagiarism through b) copying [his own] master's thesis.

Posted October 12, 2007 6:41 AM by Dorothy Rothschild

Dorothy Rothschild: I thought the piece was saying that he'd plagarised parts of both his master's thesis and his PhD.

Posted October 12, 2007 6:47 AM by Jakob

182: Ah, here I suffer from not actually having read any David Gemmell.

Naturally, in this world, the agents take a percentage of more than just your earnings. And the dividing line between the professions of "editor" and "exorcist" can, occasionally, get a little blurry.
Working title: "Mis-spelled".

Posted October 12, 2007 6:53 AM by ajay

It is possible to plagiarise your own work; a PhD is supposed to be an original bit of research, so if you don't bother do do any more research and fill it up with what you've done for your Masters, that's plagiarism. Drawing on stuff you've already done is absolutely fine if you make it clear that that's what you're doing, of course, quoting and referencing it in the normal way.

Posted October 12, 2007 7:09 AM by Jen Birren

Ye gods and small fishes.

Abi having given advice on writing poetry, I can do no more than take a line of Cheryl's as an example of how it might be done(since it happens to be in iambic pentameter, through no fault of her own).

I haven't any sense, but I can jaw
as well as any idiot out here --
my writing is the Underworld, not law.

My spelling's bad, you try it with a claw,
but writing is to me the thing most dear;
I haven't any sense, but I can jaw.

I have no dog, yet I am a cat's paw,
and now you have me weeping in my beer:
my writing is the Underworld, not law.

You are such beasts, my nerves are now quite raw
and I am feeling very odd and queer --
I haven't any sense, but I can jaw.

The words keep sticking in my witchy craw,
I'm trying to behave stern and austere,
my writing is the Underworld, not law.

My feelings have been rubbed completely raw,
you people set my mind all out of gear.
I haven't any sense, but I can jaw;
my writing is the Underworld, not law.

Posted October 12, 2007 7:19 AM by Fragano Ledgister

A Formal Apology:
We apologize for the pain this situation has caused. We were unaware of it until yesterday, 10/11/07. The book has been placed on hold for a re-write.
I'm a Trekkie, not a Trekker, yes, I write Forever Knight stories and yes I'm a fan of the show.
The blame for this should be on Mr. Hill, Lanaia is an innocent pawn in this disaster, it was brought to my attention and we took action. But people seem to enjoy slamming people with hurtful insults instead of giving the person a chance to research and solve the issue. If we could find this Mr. Hill, he would be a hurting puppy and Jane Little is no better. She was informed not to post, so her and James did, this could do some serious damage when this is solved and how can you take back the hurtful words that were said. I thought we were innocent before guilty. Now you know why I prefer the Underworld then this world. It's amazing on how people never learn or grow up and don't use conversation as a tool to solve things without throwing nasty words at each other.

Posted October 12, 2007 7:28 AM by Cheryl Pillsbury

#170 "(Which movie was that? I get them confused. Antz or the other one? I think it was Antz.)"

I think you do mean Antz, the other one was A Bug's Life and didn't have a noticable soldier caste.

Posted October 12, 2007 7:34 AM by Alan Braggins

Fragano @187:
Nice. But not the line that inspired me.

I woke this morning, and I found a duck
Asleep beside me in the tousled bed.
I sat up, feeling something on my head,
And reached to touch it, shouting, "What on earth?"*
My toothpaste was all feathers, and my soap
Left slimy pond-weed trailing from my hands.
I got no toast - the quacking bread demands
Were just too much. I simply couldn't cope.
My trip to work was very much a trip -
I stumbled over drakes and stepped on hens.
They shat on papers, shed on all my pens,
While ducklings drank my coffee, every sip.
And worse - it's nine more days till they're away:
The tenfold curse of "Have a ducky day!"

-----
* well, something like it, anyway

Posted October 12, 2007 7:41 AM by abi

ajay @ 185... the dividing line between the professions of "editor" and "exorcist" can, occasionally, get a little blurry

Teresa waves her hand, a loud sound of thunder reverberates throughout the fluorosphere, and nothing is left of ajay but a spot of soot on the floor and a puff of smoke slowly drifting upward.

Posted October 12, 2007 7:44 AM by Serge

Abi @ 190... I found a duck Asleep beside me in the tousled bed

I shall pond-er what that means. Or maybe I should call Duck Freud, since Poulet Froid is busy with another patient.

Posted October 12, 2007 7:47 AM by Serge

Saying it's everybody else's fault rarely counts as A Formal Apology.

Posted October 12, 2007 8:04 AM by Jeffrey Smith

Abi #190: Wonderful! You could, however, change 'What on earth?' to 'What the heck?'

Posted October 12, 2007 8:10 AM by Fragano Ledgister

Fragano, your poem at 187 has made my morning.

Cheryl, just as a data point: real apologies don't come with incoherent attacks on and threats to other people. Nor do they come in the passive form -- "the pain this situation has caused" -- as if it had come mysteriously out of the ether, not caused by anyone specific.

But could you be specific? What, precisely, are you apologizing for? Your words could be an apology for the sudden rain yesterday that caused mud to stain the hem of my skirt, or for Jim getting a full sour, rather than a garlic dill, with his sandwich. There's no responsibility for anything specific in it, and that makes me curious.

Posted October 12, 2007 8:11 AM by Velma

Fragano @194:
You're right, though anything so completely clunky that the reader stops and realises what I didn't say will do.

Posted October 12, 2007 8:14 AM by abi

Fragano, your poem at 187 has made my morning.

Cheryl, just as a data point: real apologies don't come with incoherent attacks on and threats to other people. Nor do they come in the passive form -- "the pain this situation has caused" -- as if it had come mysteriously out of the ether, not caused by anyone specific.

But could you be specific? What, precisely, are you apologizing for? Your words could be an apology for the sudden rain yesterday that caused mud to stain the hem of my skirt, or for Jim getting a full sour, rather than a garlic dill, with his sandwich. There's no responsibility for anything specific in it, and that makes me curious.

Posted October 12, 2007 8:19 AM by Velma

I have apologized, I have pulled the book until its resolved, sorry I can't get Mr. Hill out of my head, considering that's where it started and I have written proof. There's nothing left that I can do, I'm truly sorry this happened, but I see no apologies for the nasty name calling. I don't know what else I can do.

Posted October 12, 2007 8:21 AM by Cheryl Pillsbury

(How did my comment post twice? And where can I get a garlic dill at this hour?)

Posted October 12, 2007 8:22 AM by Velma

I want a pickle! Where are they giving out the pickles?

Posted October 12, 2007 8:43 AM by ethan

Full many a glorious morning have I seen...

but few that have started with me laughing so hard and wincing so thoroughly before 9 am...

Posted October 12, 2007 8:52 AM by Sarah S

Ref. 179: It's been my experience that scam artists use contracts quite often to intimidate their victims and make it appear that the law is on the side of the scam artist, thus improving the scam artist's odds of getting away with the fraud.

Ref. 188: Cheryl, presumption of innocence is only applicable in a court of law, not in a court of public opinion. The public is free to presume what it wants. Likewise, folks are free to ignore your demands that they not post. Consequently, because you tried to squelch public comment instead of disclosing the facts, you immediately took on the appearance of guilt. You've only yourself to blame for that.

Posted October 12, 2007 9:10 AM by Dave Kuzminski

- Plagia Rising -

A trilogy of magic, sorcery, and witchcraft!

By Mark Mitchell

Chapter 1.

It is a truth universally acknowledged that a golden child sitting alone is in want of dead father. Pip Steerpike von Huckelberry sat in the doorway wondering why every happy family was alike while every unhappy family was unhappy in its own way. Aunt Polly came out of the top turret of the castle Gormenghast, surrounded by her endless coterie of mulling white elephants, yelling as was her wont: "PIP! YOU PIIIIIPP" she would be at it all day he reflected.
Lazily the young prince got up, and ambled down the stairs, scuffing his bejewelled slippers as he walked. He whistled a tune that was all the rage. It was not very many days since his father had given him some useful advice that he'd been turning over in his mind ever since, that advice being "If you want to be happy for the rest of your life, make an ugly woman your wife." The old man's lot of happiness was just about run out though, and the old girl was not so bad as all that. Pip wasn't above patricide and matrimony in the service of naked ambition, he'd long ago decided he would turn out the villain of his own life and be damn proud of it.

Posted October 12, 2007 9:22 AM by bryan

It seems increasingly likely that I really will undertake the enterprise that has been preoccupying my imagination for some time, namely to become the foremost living plagiarist of my generation!

Posted October 12, 2007 9:25 AM by bryan

Ollie: "Well! This is a pretty pickle you've gotten us into."

Stan (crying): "I'm sorry, Ollie, they were out of dill."

Posted October 12, 2007 9:25 AM by Bruce Cohen (SpeakerToManagers)

Velma #195/197: Thank you!

Posted October 12, 2007 9:28 AM by Fragano Ledgister

naw, I'm just joshing you, I already began that long time ago. Y'all will rejoice to hear that no disaster has accompanied the commencement of an enterprise which y'all have regarded with such evil forebodings.

Posted October 12, 2007 9:29 AM by bryan

bryan @ 203

A neat mashup of genres you've got there; even erotica. 'Naked ambition' indeed; as we all know Ambition's a whore, and kings and whores are the stuff of great literature (and occasional rebellions).

Posted October 12, 2007 9:30 AM by Bruce Cohen (SpeakerToManagers)

Abi #196: You're absolutely right.

Posted October 12, 2007 9:31 AM by Fragano Ledgister

Well I figured it was a good time to write about naked ambition given that this is afternoon of my eighty-first birthday, and I'm lying in bed with my catamite. I certainly hope that beastly Ali doesn't come in, or that horrible old archbishop show up to see me.

Posted October 12, 2007 9:36 AM by bryan

Cheryl @ 188 said it all (I've corrected the punctuation)

We were innocent before, guilty now.

Posted October 12, 2007 9:36 AM by green_knight

Can lurk no longer.

Pillsbury claims Jane Little, who posted the excerpt and the original work to open discussion on plagiarism, is as bad as the man she claims did the plagiarizing and scammed her and her client.

This is a weird sense of the wacky.

Posted October 12, 2007 9:36 AM by Nora Roberts

LOLCatamite!

Posted October 12, 2007 9:37 AM by bryan

bryan #203: Very nice. I like the calypso touch.

Posted October 12, 2007 9:38 AM by Fragano Ledgister

Cheryl, what about giving Mr. Hill the curse you carelessly handed out to the rest of us? Or, um...lawsuit. Yeah Yeah, a LAWSUIT has possibilities here.

You and your so-called author are a joke. You are less professional than my preschooler, who has a better grasp of grammar and typing. Your author, who had the book she toiled over for years ghost written, is about as professional as my preschooler.

You both deserve each other. Now go away and let the real authors, editors, and agents work.

David Gemmel's family deserves a real apology.

Posted October 12, 2007 9:56 AM by Wyn

Why did the old man have to die? No reason, because it was a bright cold day in April, and the clocks were striking thirteen. He could see by his watch, without taking his hand from the left grip of the stairwell that gyred the central staircase, that it was actually eight-thirty in the morning.

He boiled at the inefficiencies of his ancestral home. This very lack of punctuality was as good excuse as any to kill his old dad, the bugger. So yeah, that was it. It was a bright cold day in April, and the clocks were striking thirteen - not on time. Fuck the world, and fuck it now.

Posted October 12, 2007 10:00 AM by bryan

bryan

You can think of it as creating inhabitants of a new virtual world: Second Hand.

Posted October 12, 2007 10:31 AM by Bruce Cohen (SpeakerToManagers)

Cheryl Pillsbury @188:It's amazing on how people never learn or grow up and don't use conversation as a tool to solve things without throwing nasty words at each other.

At first, I found the lack of self-awareness needed to write this sentence astounding. Her first comment on this thread consisted of vague threats of legal action and magic.

However, on reconsideration, perhaps this is really an admission on her part. Perhaps she's really making a statement about herself, showing great self-awareness. (The flamer bingo worthy statement would have had "some people" rather than just "people" after all.)

She still charges her writers for her representation. That makes her not the best choice of agent one can make. But, at least, she realizes how she uses language.

Posted October 12, 2007 10:33 AM by John Chu

bryan @ 213

Goes with the dinosaurs.

Posted October 12, 2007 10:33 AM by Bruce Cohen (SpeakerToManagers)

Joel Polowin @115: Aha, metric multi-fold returns! Seems I'm very behind the times.

Marilee @143: Those were the only two types of stroke my faltering memory could produce. I knew there were more...probably should have Googled for the others.

I'm a little stunned to find out that Lanaia was paying a ghost-writer $400 a month for TWO YEARS to produce this incoherent tome!?!

Posted October 12, 2007 10:44 AM by Lori Coulson

If we could find this Mr. Hill, he would be a hurting puppy

Mr. Hill is hurting puppies?
It's worse than I imagined.

Posted October 12, 2007 11:01 AM by Sarah

Very late to the party, but...

I think Lanaia is worthy of pity --taking at her word,caveat here-- in that she is someone who is so desperate to see herself in print that she will believe all kinds of swill in spite of common sense. I can just see some grifter with a prune for a heart telling her that someone would take her "ideas" and write them up "properly".

On the other hand, Cheryl...oy gevalt. The gift that keeps on giving.

Posted October 12, 2007 11:24 AM by Emma

Jen Birren @ 186: It is possible to plagiarise your own work; a PhD is supposed to be an original bit of research, so if you don't bother do do any more research and fill it up with what you've done for your Masters, that's plagiarism.

Indeed. As another example, this one from underneath my nonfiction freelancer hat, I sometimes end up on projects that are very similar to previous projects for the same editor. I am encouraged to reused the research where appropriate, but I am strictly forbidden to copy-paste from the previous manuscript, even though a rewritten section would convey the exact same information.

Alan Braggins @189: I think you do mean Antz, the other one was A Bug's Life and didn't have a noticable soldier caste.

That's right, I remember now. A Bug's Life was the one with the traveling circus and the grasshopper baddies. Antz was the one where Woody Allen wants to marry the ant princess and ends up saving the colony from the sergeant's coup-like machinations. Yeah, it was the latter.

abi @196: You're right, though anything so completely clunky that the reader stops and realises what I didn't say will do.

I'm a fan of 19th C / early 20th C ellisions, personally: "And shouted, 'What the f---k?'" Of course, the literature I'm thinking of used the device to euphemize much softer rhetoric, like "d---n," and also to anonymize known personages, like "Mrs. T---".

Posted October 12, 2007 11:33 AM by Nicole J. LeBoeuf-Little

Dorothy Rothschild @ #183:

while the article itself never directly states that copying his own thesis is plagiarism

The article never states that he copied his own thesis, period. What it states is that his thesis contains work that he copied from others.

they're selling this article as a) more alleged plagiarism through b) copying [his own] master's thesis.

I think you're misreading the article. They're not saying "Poshard has been accused of cribbing in his doctoral dissertation, and now we learn that one of the works he cribbed from is his own master's thesis"; what they're saying is "Poshard has been accused of cribbing in his doctoral dissertation, and now we learn that he is accused of cribbing in his master's thesis as well".

Posted October 12, 2007 11:43 AM by Paul A.

Cheryl,

Just FYI, everyone would be much more likely to accept an apology were the offending excerpt actually REMOVED from the author's web site. There is no excuse for that to still be on the Internet, credited to Lanaia Lee. NONE.

Her web page has not been updated to apologize to anybody for what has happened, nor to say that the book's release will be delayed. Your web site has not been updated either.

You have both had more than 24 hours to make these changes. That you have not says more than any non-apology.

Posted October 12, 2007 12:11 PM by tasha

Suzanne, #167: from that article: Police are investigating whether the bogus note was among a batch distributed last year as a publicity stunt by a Dallas-based religious ministry.

*headdesk* What is it about Texas, anyhow?

Re the rest of your comment, I might have a little sympathy for Lainia in direct proportion to the amount of cognitive brain damage she may have suffered from her stroke. It's no more fair to expect someone with genuine brain damage to function at a normal intellectual level than it is to expect someone with severe arthritis to function at a normal physical level.

OTOH, if all the talk about the stroke is just a bid for sympathy, all bets are off.

Dave, #179: You sound rather like the probably-apocryphal .sig one of my friends uses:
The Earth is degenerating these days. Bribery and corruption abound. Children no longer mind their parents, every man wants to write a book, and it is evident that the end of the world is fast approaching.
--Assyrian Stone Tablet, c.2800 BCE

Plagiarist's Agent, #198: Nor have we seen any apologies for the nasty name-calling and threats on YOUR part, let alone any acknowledgement that the people at Dear Author (and elsewhere) have not done anything wrong by exposing this nasty situation. Don't whine that you don't know what else you can do; no one is going to believe you.

There's no way you can make yourself be in the right about ANY of this clusterfuck. The only possible approach remaining is for you to own responsibility for your own screwups (i.e. the threats, name-calling, and fraudulent representation), which you seem singularly unwilling to do.

Posted October 12, 2007 12:28 PM by Lee

ajay @#180: In one of the Dream Park sequels, the game du liber had a rule that using someone else's magic was Bad News; the rule was the basis for a trap in the endgame.

Your idea does seem pretty interesting, though -- perhaps some of the pirates could turn out to be privateers, bringing various governments into the the mess. You could hyave sea hags drowning victims in tangles of irrelevancy, manuscript sails driven by gusts of bloviation, flagships off-course because they lost their rud//eaders, ghost writers hiding in weighted mirrors... okay, okay, I'll stop now!

More seriously, and sadly, I'd bet lunch money that a doctor would take 15 minutes with "Lanaia" before noting "drastically impaired judgement".

Posted October 12, 2007 12:36 PM by David Harmon

Just as an observation here -- an agent is running a business. Part of being a successful business owner is PR and selling one's product -- in this case, novels.

Cheryl, do you know who the people here are? The hosts? The people posting? The people who very likely lurk here? The friends they have? Do you understand how the publishing industry works and that people *talk* to each other?

Storming in, threatening the hosts of this blog with witchcraft and a lawsuit because they exposed a fraud that *you* should have detected *as the agent* before the book ever was printed ... and then demanding an apology? Because they became aware of plagariasm? And passed it on?

Dude.

This is classic. Do you *know* how bad it looks?

I'm small fry in the industry. I'm microscopic. Heck, I'm not even "small fry" -- I'm not even hatched yet. And *I* know that when you get caught in the wrong you don't threaten to sue TNH and Jim because they pointed out that you and your client were in the wrong. You gracefully apologize, fix the problem immediately, and then rant, rave, and break some dishes in private.

Me? Myself? If I screw up publically? I fix the problem then tell it to my dog. And apologize. Fixing comes first, apology second, dog third. (And venting to the dog is much better for your mental health than blaming the dog.)

Threatening to sue our esteemed hosts here (or hex them, or whatever) is just simply a bad business move. And you're trying to run a business.

Unless you're aspiring to run a scam. You're not trying to run a scam, are you?

Posted October 12, 2007 12:51 PM by Leva Cygnet

@95: "[sic-by-parallel]"

But I thought that every malformed sentence was malformed in its own way?
(Tolstoy-by-parallel)

Posted October 12, 2007 12:52 PM by Tesla

227: I am so stealing these ideas. Ghost writers, especially. Also manuscript sails.

Dammit, now I have two magical publishing stories going at once. One is present day and mostly set on land, in a publishing house dealing with obstreperous agents and a plagiarism case; the other is 19th century and mostly set at sea, with a really nasty version of the famous New York dockside scene where thousands of people gather to find out if Little Nell yet lives. (Short answer: in a sense, yes.)

Posted October 12, 2007 1:00 PM by ajay

ajay, wouldja hurry up and write them? I want to read them both!

Posted October 12, 2007 1:08 PM by ethan

Re 188, 198:

Ms. Pillsbury, you may think that you have made the form of an apology, but the substance of your comment is accusation levened with threats frosted with bad grammar. You can fill a bundt pan with plaster and packing peanuts, and paint the result with chocolate colored epoxy, but the substance will not be yummy yummy cake.

Posted October 12, 2007 1:10 PM by JESR

ajay @ 230... find out if Little Nell yet lives

Will Dudley Dooright save her from the evil clutches of Snidely Whiplash?

Posted October 12, 2007 1:31 PM by Serge