It's true. Patrick once reconstructed the provenance of an unannotated bar tab while doing his expenses by spotting the gibsons on it.

Posted November 23, 2007 10:10 PM by Teresa Nielsen Hayden

William, Mel, or Henry?

Posted November 23, 2007 10:12 PM by Serge

I can't get a decent gin and tonic anywhere, either. Everyone uses sprite, from one of those handy little soda shooting doodads.

No pne takes pride in craftsmanship anymore.

Posted November 23, 2007 10:15 PM by Keith

Where did that p in one come from? I swear I hit preview...

Posted November 23, 2007 10:17 PM by Keith

#1 I recall -- in the Oyster Bar, Grand Central Station, it was, whilst I was changing trains.

Posted November 23, 2007 10:22 PM by James D. Macdonald

Friggin’ bar in the friggin’ lobby is called “The Martini Bar.” And you know what? No onions. “We haven’t had any in ten years,” says the bartender.

Obligatory M. Python reference:

MOUSEBENDER (Cleese): It's not much of a cheese shop, is it?
WENSLEYDALE (Palin): Finest in the district, sir.

Posted November 23, 2007 10:25 PM by Bob Oldendorf

It kills me to go to a 'Martini Bar' place and have the bartender be confused by any order for something that isn't either a sweet syrupy fruity thing or a simple liquor+soda.

It's bad enough that nobody has cocktail onions, but is asking for an actual martini at a martini bar really so weird?

Posted November 23, 2007 10:27 PM by Nat

I really believed I was the only person traveling the world (well, the Eastern Seaboard) with a jar of cocktail onions. Welcome to the club! On the bright side, I've never had them confiscated by Homeland Insecurity. . .

Posted November 23, 2007 10:41 PM by Amy Po

Dude, you think that's hard, try looking for rye whiskey.

Posted November 23, 2007 10:43 PM by Delicious Pundit

Heh. Meanwhile, my peeve is the Martini bar, because, seriously, just serving it in that glass doesn't make the damned thing a martini.

Gin. Vermouth. An olive.

Putting vodka in that glass doesn't make it a vodka martini. It makes it a kangaroo. Even my mother knows that (but, then, she's a bartender, sometimes).

I once drank martinis in the Algonquin with my former English advisor. Still the best I've had (though the ones at the Hollywood Roosevelt run close).

Posted November 23, 2007 10:44 PM by Will Entrekin

As it happens I read this in the sports bar at LosCon, and I am pleased to report that the bar has onions. The waiter was surprised at the question, almost like, "Duh, we're a bar, dude, of COURSE we have onions!"

Posted November 23, 2007 10:55 PM by Berry

#9: Rye whiskey is the Official Drink of Making Light. Mine's a Rittenhouse. Jim is well aware of the travails of looking for it...

Posted November 23, 2007 11:25 PM by Patrick Nielsen Hayden

That reminds me of a very old joke about being out of onions. I'm sure you've heard it, so I won't repeat.

You're welcome. ;-)

Posted November 23, 2007 11:27 PM by JulieB

Martinis have gin, and vermouth. I think the vermouth ought to be measurable... a swirl and discard isn't it. I prefer something on the order of 3-4 to 1.

And yeah, I like a Manhattan. Old Overholt is damned hard to find.

Posted November 23, 2007 11:30 PM by Terry Karney

A bar without onions? Inconceivable!

Serge, I believe you meant to include Charles Dana on your list.

Posted November 23, 2007 11:40 PM by Tania

Friggin’ bar in the friggin’ lobby is called “The Martini Bar.” And you know what? No onions.

Why would a place called "The Martini Bar" have onions? If all they serve are actual martinis ... then they wouldn't need onions.

Posted November 23, 2007 11:50 PM by Kurt Montandon

Is that seeded or unseeded rye whiskey?

Posted November 23, 2007 11:58 PM by Avram

Clearly it's due to a failure to live up to the Gibson image :)

(personally I stick with gin-and-tonic or scotch/whiskey, as being things that are generally[0] difficult to ruin)

[0] The general case not being the universal case, of course

Posted November 24, 2007 12:08 AM by xeger

Tania @ 15.. I had also forgotten Walter ("The Shadow knows!") Gibson.

Posted November 24, 2007 12:14 AM by Serge

Will, #10: There are times when the names of drinks just boggle me, and this is one. Why on earth would vodka-and-vermouth be called a "kangaroo"?!

Posted November 24, 2007 12:19 AM by Lee

My drink of choice is the Sidecar - last popular in 1950 or so. Every bar has the ingredients - but few know how to make it.

Posted November 24, 2007 12:43 AM by broundy

Patrick: Have you tried Old Potrero 100 Percent Rye Whiskey?

The guy who makes Anchor Steam is a fan of rye whiskey and decided the world needed to have a brand which was like that on which the nation was built.

I know a place in SF which sells it, if you can't find it in New York.

Posted November 24, 2007 12:53 AM by Terry Karney

Along with the onion-free gibsons and tonic-free G&Ts I would list the cachaça-free caipirinhas I've been served. I'm not sure what the point is of serving a drink without the main distinguishing ingredient.

(Mind you, contrary to our hostess's characterization of cachaça a few years ago , I actually do like some cachaça enough to drink it straight, so I particularly miss it when its absent. On the other hand, the cachaça I would drink straight isn't the cachaça I would mix with limes and sugar.)

Posted November 24, 2007 12:54 AM by David Wald

Please forgive me for temporarily damaging the Gibson-ness of the universe. It was 27 years ago, and I was tending bar. We ran out of cocktail onions on a Saturday night, mostly because of my penchant for eating them (they had almost no calories; I was on a diet; they were little salt bombs)...and my boss (a Gibson-drinker) and I finally made an agreement. He would pay me roughly $2.79 less a week, and I could keep on eating all the onions.

Imagine my glee in discovering, when I lived in Madrid some years later, that "cebollitas" were cocktail onions, only better, and could be purchased by the *kilo* (not the little jar) for all of 400 pesetas (then, less than $4).

Posted November 24, 2007 1:00 AM by Deb Geisler

#22 Terry Karney: where in SF can you get Old Potrero? Inquiring San Franciscans want to know.

Re: Gibsons--that was my mother's out-to-dinner favorite drink: "Beefeater Gibson, two onions, please." Round home she drank bourbon, which doesn't work so well with an onion (or so she told me).

Posted November 24, 2007 1:22 AM by Madeleine Robins

I have a 50+ year old Gibson acoustic guitar that I inherited from my maternal grandfather.

Posted November 24, 2007 1:26 AM by Earl Cooley III

Ah, one of my favourite subjects!

I really enjoy a good martini - one of the best things about living in the States wsa being able to order them everywhere (airports even) and have people know what they were.

In NZ you have to pick your establishment, usually I'll just order a Gin and Tonic (as per xeger,#18) because it's harder to screw up.

Terry, #14 - oh noes. Martinis should be as dry as possible. I like the swirl and discard.

At home when I run out of Vermouth, I just keep shaking the bottle to get a drop or two out and that works well for a couple of weeks.

Winston Churchill, famously, was of the view that all that was needed was to pass the shadow of the Vermouth over the gin.

Posted November 24, 2007 1:27 AM by John A

A decent blend scotch and water, no ice. Thank you. Single malt after dinner. NO ICE. Thank you.

Posted November 24, 2007 1:30 AM by Dave Luckett

I never got used to gin, as a former cow-orker of mine drank a kind of gin that smelled like someone had marinaded a pine tree car air freshener in it for a few weeks. Bleargh.

I don't force my preferences on other people either, though, since I like Southern Comfort, and sometimes Wild Turkey (not together, mind you).

Posted November 24, 2007 1:37 AM by Earl Cooley III

John A, #27. In NZ you have to pick your establishment, usually I'll just order a Gin and Tonic (as per xeger,#18) because it's harder to screw up.

It's easy to screw up. Just serve the RTD of the same name and appreciate how the insipidity is artfully masked by the added sugar.

Posted November 24, 2007 1:53 AM by phil

Terry @ 14: Whoa, weird -- they must be sending it all to MN and WA, then. Old Overholt's the main whiskey I've been drinking for the last year, on account of it being super-cheap* and always on the shelves.
____
* $11 in MPLS.

Posted November 24, 2007 1:55 AM by Nick Fagerlund

Madeline Robbins: Oddly enough, at an establishment, near Coit Tower, called "Potrero Liquors".

At least they had it in bottles the last time I stopped in there. about two years back.

Posted November 24, 2007 2:04 AM by Terry Karney

I'm not much of a drinker, partially because I've never known where to start, and it seems like the kind of thing one ought to do properly if one is going to do it.

So...

RTD?
As I understand it (and seems to be confirmed above), a (proper / real / traditional) martini is gin, vermouth and an olive, with the big dispute being the amount of vermouth. Correct so far?

Many people seem to use very small amounts of vermouth, such as the '2 drops' in the original post, ranging all the way down to the humorous ways of saying "none at all, really". How much vermouth is actually needed to make a martini detectably different from just gin with an olive in it?

Does the olive actually add enough to warrant a vermouth-less martini getting a name other than "gin"?

I've not much enjoyed the scotches I've tried, including some which were apparently moderately expensive and presumably well-respected. I do like rum, even cheap stuff. I like ouzo. I don't really like any of the beer or wine I've ever tried. I liked Southern Comfort the one time I tried it, but that was decades ago and the wench is dead. I currently live in Washington state where the liquor stores are state-run.

Anything in particular I should try? Any way to systematically explore the flavorspace?

Posted November 24, 2007 2:09 AM by Todd Larason

#22 Terry Karney: where in SF can you get Old Potrero? Inquiring San Franciscans want to know.

Beverages & More in Colma has it, or used to.

I got to try the Old Potrero Hotaling at Burning Man, and it was migh-tee-fine.

Their gin, Junipero, is also outstanding, and rumor has it that their genever gin (which I got to try an experimental batch of a few years ago) is about to ship.

Posted November 24, 2007 2:14 AM by Tim Walters

#33. RTD=Ready To Drink, i.e. pre-mixed in the bottle rather than actually ready to drink. If you don't have them in your country then George Bush is somehow doing something right. It didn't occur to me what else a gin-and-tonic could be until after I had bought a four-pack. Even the airlines don't do this.

Posted November 24, 2007 2:20 AM by phil

Nick: Then you have the main ingredient for Manhattans (Old Overholt, sweet vermouth, and a maraschino cherry).

I can find it, in shops, but rarely behind the counter.

Posted November 24, 2007 2:22 AM by Terry Karney

I like campari and soda best to drink, but I like little onions anytime.

Posted November 24, 2007 2:28 AM by flowery tops

I've never really liked the taste of alcohol and now I have meds that don't mix with it. No problem now, I can usually get iced tea. But back when I was younger, people assumed you were rude if you didn't drink, so I'd have a G&T and nurse it all night. The gin reminded me of a cough syrup we used to get at the base pharmacy.

Posted November 24, 2007 2:29 AM by Marilee

Speaking of cough syrup, I suspect I should take the hint of this thread suddenly reading as 'The Varnishing Gibbon', and hie me off to bed.

Posted November 24, 2007 2:37 AM by xeger

When I see a post titled "The Vanishing Gibson, I fondle my Martin and smile.

Posted November 24, 2007 2:40 AM by Alan Bostick

When I want to look as though I'm drinking, I'll get a G&T, and then spend the rest of the night with plain lime and tonic.

Todd Larson: If you don't like it, there's no need to chase it. There are lots of good ouzos out there (and arrack and other anise based drinks). If you want to explore it, find drinks you like, and then try different makes of it.

From there, you can try to expand the list of things you like.

So, were I you, I'd start with rum.

Posted November 24, 2007 2:56 AM by Terry Karney

Marille, #38: back when I was younger, people assumed you were rude if you didn't drink

Sometimes they still do. And even when they don't, the assumption is that anyone not carrying a drink MUST be in dire need of one, and it will be forced on you willy-nilly. While I do note, and appreciate, the number and variety of dodges people have come up with to get around this sort of thing, I still wish it weren't necessary. The only cure for it I've ever found is simply to surround myself with people for whom drinking is NOT an integral part of socialization, and avoid other venues when at all possible.

Posted November 24, 2007 3:10 AM by Lee

Todd @ 33:

If you want to start exploring whisk(e)y, you might want to avoid Scotch, at least at first. It is one thing to say Laphroaig is of the noblest of spirits, it is another thing for someone with little experience of Scotch to be able to tell. And the cheap stuff can be vile.

I would suggest exploring Irish whiskey, as the range of brands is smaller, but some new and interesting stuff is coming onto the market. I tend to stay away from Bushmills in general, but at the high end I hear good things about Michael Collins, while Green Spot and Redbreast are worth the trouble to find.

I would give similar advice on American whiskeys -- I share our host's regard for rye, but it is not for beginners.

In general, is there a type of spirits where the top varieties or brands do not tend to turn off the newcomer? Vodka, perhaps?

Posted November 24, 2007 3:50 AM by Claude Muncey

My preference if I don't want to keep drinking, but don't want people asking annoying questions, is to start on good scotch (I normally drink it half-and-half with water) and then refill it with just the water.

When I used to drink almost neat single malt, the later iterations would be apple juice.

I once had someone get annoyed that I'd been on lemonade all evening - he spiked it with a double vodka while I was away from the table. That was my first introduction to the idea that there are people who can't taste it instantly.

Posted November 24, 2007 3:52 AM by Sam Kelly

I'm usually the driver, and I actually like Coca Cola, so that's what I usually have when drinking out. I also know how to order a virgin strawberry margarita when in a Spanish speaking country.

When I'm not driving, and if I'm feeling 'sophisticated', I have a good scotch, usually on the rocks so it can dilute as I nurse* it through the evening. My foofy drink of choice is the Midori Sour. Fluorescent Green. Sweet. Fun.

Most of the booze in my house gets used for cooking.

Sam Kelly @ 44: Yeah, what is with people who can't taste vodka? I'm hard pressed to think of anything that masks the vodka flavor.

Posted November 24, 2007 4:34 AM by Tania

PNH @12:
Rye whiskey is the Official Drink of Making Light.

OK, but us unofficial single malt drinkers have a nice wee corner over here, and we have all the best names*†.

Having said that, I have never tried rye whiskey, so perhaps I merely wallowing in ignorance‡ and calling it taste.

------
* much like the Devil with tunes
† at least until the Real Ale guys show up
‡ tasty, tasty ignorance

Posted November 24, 2007 4:41 AM by abi

This reminds me of Robert Altman's M*A*S*H when Trapper John is introduced and he carries a jar of olives around with him. So, all you need are one of those big army coats and you can have the cocktail onions, a bottle opener, and many other drinking accouterments on your person at all times.

On occasion, you can still get rye from Jim Beam.

Posted November 24, 2007 5:03 AM by oldnumberseven

Marilee, #38: just be glad people no longer assume you're rude if you don't smoke...

Posted November 24, 2007 6:44 AM by Martin Wisse

I'll say this: I thought I didn't like Scotch whiskey, until I went to ConJose, where someone let me taste theirs -- I forget the brand or the amount of aging, I just remember it was a single malt. Never tried rye.

Posted November 24, 2007 7:04 AM by David Goldfarb

I'm sorry, a mere 2 drops of vermouth means it isn't a Gibson. It's a straight gin drink with trace impurities and an onion. Which is still pretty good but not a member of the Martini genus. And for those who like scotch and cheese, sometime try a paired tasting of an excellent stilton and a cask-strength whiskey (diluted with a few drops of water to lower the surface tension and increase the nose). Delicious.

Posted November 24, 2007 7:33 AM by JDC

"Hey, bartender! Your TV is tuned to a dead channel!"

"So change it already, Gibson ... "

Posted November 24, 2007 7:43 AM by Jon Meltzer

Abi @ 46... until the Real Ale guys show up

...and then proceed to malt-iply.

Posted November 24, 2007 7:54 AM by Serge

Bartender: Shaken or stirred?
James Bond: Do I look like I give a damn?

Posted November 24, 2007 7:59 AM by Serge

Re: avoiding alcohol.

Back in SERE School they taught it thus: During the course of surviving, evading, resisting, and escaping, on your way back to friendly lines, you may fall in with the Underground/Resistance/Rebels etc. Try to avoid this, but it may happen. When you are with them, the opportunity may arise for you to drink their booze or [bleep!] their women. In fact, both of these activities may be pressed on you in very strong terms.

Do not do either. Under no circumstances shall you drink or [bleep!].

Here is how to avoid those activities: Explain that doing so is against your religion. This is an explanation that everyone can understand and no one can disprove.

Posted November 24, 2007 8:08 AM by James D. Macdonald

Sam Kelly @44:I once had someone get annoyed that I'd been on lemonade all evening - he spiked it with a double vodka while I was away from the table.

Wow, this is unspeakably rude. (Actually, depending on the ramifications, couldn't this be criminal?) Are you still friends with this person? I hope he apologized.

Posted November 24, 2007 8:32 AM by John Chu

Being essentially forced to avoid alcohol[1], this entire thread has me confused. Why on earth would anyone imagine that dropping an *onion* into a drink would *improve* it? Obviously it affects the taste, or nobody would care if it was in there --- but if onionating a drink makes it better, what on earth did it taste like before? Battery acid? Why would anyone drink it?

[1] I'm so sensitive to it that a small glass of beer will have me semiconscious. God knows what more would do: kill me, probably. Some cookery with wine-based gravies has me tipsy if the gravy isn't heated for long enough to drive the alcohol off (although this is partly because wine-based gravy tastes so nice I tend to ladle a lot on).

Posted November 24, 2007 8:54 AM by Nix

Old Overholt is damned hard to find. You would think so, but good old Marty's, next to the Whole Foods in Newton, not only carries Overholt, but several other brands I didn't even know exist ('Old Elijah' etc).

Lately I've been partial to Ireland's new export, Boru vodka. It's been a hard sell even in Boston, but seems finally to be finding its spot on the shelf at more places than not now.

Posted November 24, 2007 8:58 AM by John Farrell

James @ 54 - This is a bit off on a tangent, but I'm sort of shocked that SERE tells people to avoid falling in with the local resistance. What's the logic of that?

(Of course, I'm mostly just prejudiced by my family history - my grandfather and several other members of his B-17 crew spent several months in Brittany in the spring of 1944, courtesy of the French Resistance. He's quite clear that he never would have survived, much less escaped back to England, if it weren't for their help.)

Posted November 24, 2007 9:16 AM by Chris W

Sam 44: I'm with John 55, except that I would say "Wow, did you hurt him?" I could not possibly remain friends with someone who did that to me even once, no matter how much he apologized.

But then part of the reason I don't drink is that mixing my meds with alcohol could be fatal. But even before that I would consider that a gross violation of my right to control my own body.

James 54: Unfortunately lying is against MY religion. But the things that would keep me out of SERE training are without number.

Posted November 24, 2007 9:21 AM by Xopher

Chris 58: Jim can tell if this is right, but the way I read his comment is that falling in with the local resistance is fine, but you have to refrain from drinking alcohol with them or frelling with them.

Posted November 24, 2007 9:38 AM by Xopher

Xopher, if ever I have the honour to entertain you to dinner, I shall drink wine with and single malt afterwards (for it will be a special occasion), and you shall drink whatever the hell you please, whenever you please, and to the devil with anyone who thinks evil of either of us.

Posted November 24, 2007 9:39 AM by Dave Luckett

Xopher @ 60... Oui, oui. That's how I read it.

Posted November 24, 2007 9:39 AM by Serge

Todd @33: I think you like the rum and ouzo for the same reason I dislike them: under the burn, they are sweet. Me, I like Irish coffee made with Tullamore Dew for a dinner chaser; and Talisker 10 year old scotch for a straight drink; but for social cocktail drinking it's vodka tonics. Most mid-price vodkas are ok. Stay away from the flavored crap and, even when offered a place to crash for the weekend DO NOT undertake domestic russian vodka or the undertaker may have to make an unfortunate appearance!

Posted November 24, 2007 9:40 AM by Emma

I'm not much of a drinker, because I can already easily nod off in the evening without any help by ethylic vapors.

Posted November 24, 2007 9:42 AM by Serge

Xopher @#59: Drinking their booze or bleeping their women would no doubt cause you harm--physical in the first place, possibly psychological in the second, and would expose you to danger in either case. I believe your religion prohibits you from harming anyone?

Hm, and even if you don't have the "harm none" clause in your law (I've met a few who totally skipped that bit, but you don't seem to be of their stripe) you can technically refuse to do anything you don't want to do, on religious grounds, because it's not what you will. So saying "sorry, eating that key lime pie is against my religion" would not be a lie.

(Although being all facetious with The Law is probably not wise for practitioners of any religion.)

Posted November 24, 2007 9:46 AM by Mary Dell

Sam Kelly @#44: I know a recovering alcoholic who used to go the other way with that whiskey/apple juice switcharoo.

Posted November 24, 2007 9:48 AM by Mary Dell

You want to avoid falling in with the Resistance/Underground/Rebels because their interests are not yours. They can, for example, for reasons you will never find out, turn you in to the Bad Guys if it will give them a momentary advantage.

Posted November 24, 2007 9:56 AM by James D. Macdonald

at least until the Real Ale guys show up

By happy chance, The Independent has "The 50 Best Beers" in one of it's magazines today (not online as far as I can tell). This is happy as it will give me something to argue about all weekend, but also means I can say "Haviestoun Bitter and Twisted", "Bishops Finger"*, "Black Cullin" and (of course) "Old Peculier" without getting up from my seat.

* Known locally as Nun's Delight

Posted November 24, 2007 10:04 AM by Neil Willcox

I'm usually a Guinness drinker. However, I occaisionaly "get my drink-on" with dirty martinis. The dirtier the better.
I like to experiment by trying different types of olives: garlic stuffed, almond stuffed, etc etc.. (blue cheese stuffed was actually the most awesome martini evar---only carried by one bar I went to).

If it's a bar I frequented but didn't necessarily carry the assortment of olives (or the blue cheese stuffed ones mmm) I'd bring them in and leave them with the bar tender.
If you're out on the town---carry them with you. Most bar tenders I've met are fairly accomodating to taste.

Posted November 24, 2007 10:07 AM by JKRichard

Jameson's drinker myself.

I miss the midwest tradition of asking if you want a "snit" with that (a 5 oz. beer chaser).

Posted November 24, 2007 10:25 AM by Nathan

In my college days, when I hung around with people who drank alcohol* and hadn't learned how to refuse it gracefully, I discovered that a glass of orange juice can pass as a screwdriver. (I used to call it a 'Philips screwdriver.')

A few years later when I joined my friends at a bar, my Cokes** were free, because the bar assumed I was the designated driver. (I was, when we weren't walking.)

The only thing alcoholic I've ever liked*** was plum wine in a Japanese restaurant.

*everyone I knew drank alcohol
**my preferred drink
***by which I mean 'not instantly detested'

Posted November 24, 2007 10:28 AM by Mary Aileen

I once had the opportunity to attend a departmental graduation party at Georgetown University. The department rented out a very swanky bar in Georgetown, and ran an open bar plus heavy hors d'oeuvres all night.

This is where I learned that the only gin I can drink is expensive gin. I had a gin and tonic that tasted like Christmas trees smell. Beautiful.

At someone's bachelorette party, a month later, I ordered a gin and tonic. They made it using whatever gin comes in large plastic bottles. It tasted like Pine-Sol.

I think people who can't handle others not drinking are extremely rude. I may be the only college student in the world who did not drink until it was legal for me to do so, which means that I spent a lot of time at parties drinking Coke. And even now there are plenty of times where I simply don't feel like drinking, or am the designated driver.

Speaking of DD: I really, really like the fact that among my friends, it is completely socially unacceptable to drive drunk. It is just Not Done. I was recently at a work party of my boyfriend's, and was shocked and upset to hear other people my age laughing about driving drunk, and insisting they could drive better drunk. I really thought that message had sunk in by now.

Posted November 24, 2007 10:28 AM by Caroline

I'm not a frequent drinker of strong spirits. and when I do, I want them mixed with something sweet and girly.

Bushmills isn't bad in strong coffee, especially with some Bailey's added. And the caffeine in the strong coffee is enough to counter the alcohol in the Bushmills and Baileys, leaving me more or less vertical, crosseyed, and prone to declaring my sloppy eternal love to people I just met.

This is why I'm not a frequent drinker of strong spirits.

Posted November 24, 2007 10:30 AM by Thena

The placee: the Nielsen-Hayden kitchen. The time: evening.

"What's for dinner?"
"Funeral potatoes."
"Could I have a bier with that?"

Posted November 24, 2007 10:30 AM by Serge

Xopher at 44 - this was at a university social, he wasn't a friend in the first place. Thankfully, because I'd have hated to think I'd been friends with someone who'd do that. I didn't hurt him - though hurting people wasn't against my religion then, I've never been fond of it. But a bit of explanation about what would have happened if I'd mentioned it to a few other people, and he never pulled that trick on anyone else.

Mm, real ale. I'll normally take that in preference to single malt, at least early in the evening. This is my local's current drinks menu, and that's one of the reasons it's my local.

Posted November 24, 2007 10:33 AM by Sam Kelly

Rum and grapefruit juice* is the best of mixed drinks (there are many people who hold that rum and milk is better, but these are heretics).

*Appleton Rum and Trout Hall grapefruit juice, to be precise.

Posted November 24, 2007 10:47 AM by Fragano Ledgister

I didn't like Scotch until I tried Lagavulin. I bought a bottle not long thereafter, which has lasted me for years. It's delicious--no, make that scrumptious--but I can't have more than one without dulling the taste. Did I mention that it's scrumptious?

The Sunday after the 2004 election, I was in a bar on Mission in San Fran and in one bad goddam mood from recent events. Normally when I'm bummed, I get all Chandleresque and drink gimlets, but I also wanted to get that tequila upper going, so I explained my dilemma to the bartender (a real sweetheart), who made me a tequila gimlet. I had several drinks that night, but the tequila gimlet was the only one I repeated. I've never had another one that didn't taste like, as Rickey would put it, ass.

Posted November 24, 2007 10:48 AM by John A Arkansawyer

Dave 61: Honi soit qui mal e pense. And thank you. If I ever have the honor of entertaining YOU for dinner, I will endeavor to have wine and single malt on hand—though I will not partake of them myself.

Mary 65: Deceiving people with words that are technically true is...well, against my religion in the sense that only the direst necessity allows it. More than my own safety would have to be on the line. I think it's actually worse than outright lying, because it erodes not only your belief in your own word, but the integrity of your thought; not only fools the person you're talking to, but fools you, yourself, causing minute destruction of your ability to think clearly.

That said, it IS true that it's not my True Will to drink or frell the women (or, for different reasons, the men). I don't know how I'd handle that, but I rely on my deep self to find solutions, and words to express them, in real time.

BTW, I do have the An It Harm None clause in my religion, but I've come to view it as almost redundant, since "do as thou wilt" does NOT mean "do whatever you feel like doing."

Posted November 24, 2007 10:53 AM by Xopher

abi #46: Single malts are excellent. I was expecting, given your new domicile, that you'd be speaking up for oude genever.

Posted November 24, 2007 10:54 AM by Fragano Ledgister

Mary Aileen at 71 - I believe that a proper Philips screwdriver is made with vodka and Milk of Magnesia.

Posted November 24, 2007 10:55 AM by Dennis Howard

I like a nice Irish stout like Kilkenny or Guinness. Can anyone here identify what flavor they have in common and what would be a drink with similar taste? Stout is sadly difficult to find here in Asia. We mostly have lager, and the dark lager I prefer isn't common either. Thank God for San Miguel's Cerveza Negra!

My friend mixed Johnny Walker and Bailey's on a recent night out, and it was surprisingly not bad, once you got over the weirdness of it.

Getting pretty curious about that rye whiskey.

Posted November 24, 2007 11:10 AM by antukin

Being awake again, I'm now wondering what you'd put in a drink called 'the varnishing baboon'. I'm thinking the varnish would have to come from gin - not sure about the baboon, since I keep on coming up with moonshine as the only thing I'm aware the Savannah produces. There'd have to be a few drips of something, whether that's for sweat or the invariable drops and runs somewhere on what you're varnishing...

Posted November 24, 2007 11:16 AM by xeger

Dennis Howard at #80: I suggest that what Mary Aileen describes is an Allen Key. It's functionally much like a Screwdriver, but without the edge.

Posted November 24, 2007 11:22 AM by Sam Kelly

BTW

I'm curious about Earl Cooley III's (@29) former cow-orker.

What precisely is involved in orking a cow? Do I really want to know?

Posted November 24, 2007 11:22 AM by Nathan

Xopher @ 78... Actually it's Honi soit qui mal y pense, but I am very impressed, even though you have on countless occasions shown your knowledge of French. (Did you ever get to use those phrases I provided you with for your trip to Montreal?)

Posted November 24, 2007 11:29 AM by Serge

JDC@50: since when does adding water to whisky (57-60% water already) reduce the surface tension -- especially considering the balance is ethanol, whose surface tension is much lower?

I will try almost anything offered by someone I know enough to trust, and sometimes otherwise if I can get \just/ a taste, but my preferences follow my male (i.e., British) ancestry: real ale (or similar) and single-malt by themselves, red wine with dinner, port afterwards. My mother's family (originally Zwingli) might be appalled that I'm bored by most lager -- if I ever showed up at a reunion.

Posted November 24, 2007 11:32 AM by CHip

Nix @56:
Why on earth would anyone imagine that dropping an *onion* into a drink would *improve* it?

Why an olive in the first place? Cocktail onions don't taste much like a standard yellow onion (more like a mild pearl onion), and are a nice contrast to the vermouth. I much prefer a Gibson to a martini (probably because I don't really like olives). It *changes* the taste, and sometimes change is good.

Posted November 24, 2007 11:54 AM by JennR

My tastes in alcohol and ave changed markedly over the years, for no reasons that I can discover. In my twenties I loved gin and tonic, probably because it was the drink my parents liked and I learned to drink it early. For many years I liked good beer, pale ales preferably, and I still do, though I drink way less of it than I used to. I used to drink single malt scotch; The Macallan was my favorite. Not any more. My taste for it has gone. I have unaccountably developed a taste for dessert wines: cream sherry, port. I can't drink more than half a glass of those.

Posted November 24, 2007 11:57 AM by Lizzy L

Lizzie L @ 88... I have unaccountably developed a taste for dessert wines: cream sherry, port.

Even though I'm not much of a drinker, I rather like Plum Loco, a dessert wine made here in the desert. Then again, you must be warned that I have no taste - except where friendships are concerned.

Posted November 24, 2007 12:02 PM by Serge

Mary Aileen at 71 - A Philips screwdriver is milk of magnesium and vodka. Ick.

Posted November 24, 2007 12:04 PM by Paul Lalonde

I drink very little and have never really gotten in to Manly Mixed Drinks (or even UNmanly, for that matter, though I did have something quite nice involving Malibu in OC one summer). If I'm going to have something quite strong it'll be a smidgen of Islay or island malt (for some reason I've never been able to abide that Speyside stuff).

Posted November 24, 2007 12:08 PM by C. Wingate

I like my alcohol to taste less like alcohol. I usually drink a nice yeasty wheat beer (Spotted Cow, Crop Circle Wheat) which is easy when you live in Wisconsin. I als like a semi-sweet white wine like a Riesling.

When it comes to hard liquor, I don't care for three of the big standards: vodka, gin, or whiskey. I do like tequilla and brandy (brandy being another Wisconsin tradition) and I'm quite fond of a number of sweet liqueurs like amaretto and Frangelico. Sadly, most of the sweet liqueur drinks also involve adding vodka, which I dislike.

My standard evening out drink usually requires giving the bartender instructions, since everyone these days seems to think an Alexander is an ice cream drink: 1 part Brandy (or Amaretto), 1 part creme de cacao, and 1 part heavy cream shaken with ice and strained into a cocktail glass.

Posted November 24, 2007 12:16 PM by Kayjayoh

Chip, I know nothing of surface tension, but it is a Truth Universally Acknowledged (which of course does not mean it is True) among fans of the single malts that a tiny splash of water, less than it would take to dilute in any perceptible way, makes the drinking experience better. I resisted this idea for years ("put water in it? Heathen!") before trying it, and immediately agreeing that, yeah, it's better somehow.

Posted November 24, 2007 12:16 PM by Daniel

In the browser-based MMORPG Kingdom of Loathing, a Gibson served in a coconut is a Neuromancer.

Posted November 24, 2007 12:23 PM by Tim May

From Luis Bunuel's 1983 autobiography, "My Last Sigh":

"To provoke, or sustain, a reverie in a bar, you have to drink English gin, especially in the form of a martini. To be frank, given the primordial role played in my life by the dry martini, I really think I ought to give it at least a page. Like all cocktails, the martini, composed essentially of gin and a few drops of Noilly Prat, seems to have been an American invention. Connoisseurs who like their martinis very dry suggest simply allowing a ray of sunlight to shine through a bottle of Noilly Prat before it hits the bottle of gin. At a certain period in America it was said that the making of a dry martini should resemble the Immaculate Conception, for, as Saint Thomas Aquinas once noted, the generative powers of the Holy Ghost pierced the virgin’s hymen 'like a ray of sunlight through a window–-leaving it unbroken.'

"Another crucial recommendation is that the ice be so cold and hard that it won’t melt, since nothing’s worse than a watery martini. For those who are still with me, let me give you my personal recipe, the fruit of long experimentation and guaranteed to produce perfect results. The day before your guests arrive, put all the ingredients–-glasses, gin, and shaker – in the refrigerator. Use a thermometer to make sure the ice is about twenty degrees below zero (centigrade). Don’t take anything out until your friends arrive; then pour a few drops of Noilly Prat and half a demitasse spoon of Angostura bitters over the ice. Shake it, then pour it out, leaving only the ice, which retains a faint taste of both. Then pour straight gin over the ice, shake it again, and serve.

"(During the 1940s, the director of the Museum of Modern Art in New York taught me a curious variation. Instead of Angostura, he used a dash of Pernod. Frankly, it seemed heretical to me, but apparently it was only a fad.)"

I have friends who drink a martini as a social cocktail, and it's fine for that, but I have to concur with Bunuel's observation about the martini's utility for provoking and sustaining a reverie. To reach that state, I prefer to drink mine either in a quiet, civilized bar as evening falls and the lights of a city flicker into life outside, or during those cold winter nights when the forest around my house is silent and thick with snow, and the stars and the moon in the sharp, frigid air seem close enough to touch.

A couple of decades ago I was with an uncle, Bill, motoring up the Taku River in Alaska, heading toward his hunting cabin near the border with British Columbia. Suddenly he swerved the boat in a sharp arc and cut the throttle, then reached with both arms over the gunwale and pulled in a very large piece of ice.

"What's that for?" I asked.

"For the martinis," Bill replied.

And that evening, sitting snug in the cabin, with the eerie silence of the rain forest broken only by the low rumble of a distant glacier calving, the cocktails were darn fine, indeed.

Posted November 24, 2007 12:26 PM by Richard Anderson

Dennis (80)/Paul (90): Good thing none of my college classmates knew that!

Sam Kelly (83): Allen Key, I like that.

Posted November 24, 2007 12:30 PM by Mary Aileen

Serge 85: Oops. Shoulda Googled that before putting it in. And no, haven't been to Montreal yet, since you gave me phrases.

Posted November 24, 2007 12:43 PM by Xopher

I'm afraid that, these days, in this company I'd be classed as a Heathen Apostate.

I do not drink much these years (perhaps from seeing the wreckage it can bring to families), but I used to like very good whiskeys (rye and scotch) but would Drink Many Things I Shouldn't.

When I do drink nowadays I'm fairly pedestrian for the most part - a good ale or stout, hard ciders, some fruit wines (except I still have a weakness for Liebfraumilch (which goes well with the same kinds of foods as the ciders), and whiskey sours (which I think is classed as a "Girly Drink" by some)

But I do have a real weakness for Sabra. (the drink, not the prickly pear [or the person [or Marvel superhero ] ] )

An Israeli liquor distilled from Jaffa oranges and mixed with bittersweet chocolate. In my younger days I was classified as a Nicely Evil Man by a lady friend because I would offer it to her when she came to visit.

Posted November 24, 2007 12:52 PM by Craig R.

Xopher @ 97... Let me know if you need a refresher course. As for what you hope to attain with those phrases, tout vient à point à qui sait attendre.

Posted November 24, 2007 12:53 PM by Serge

Jim @ 67

Makes perfect sense to me. In fact, I'd probably be going on the assumption that it would be intended.

Oh yeah, last nicht in the Ice Cream Sociable, there was a guy makign it in two minutes. He had a bottle of LN2 which was carefully added to teh cream while it was being stirred. Wooden spoon, freezeproof bowl. I didn't try it - the texture looked very odd, more like cottage cheese - but those who did said it was good.

Posted November 24, 2007 1:11 PM by P J Evans

Mary Aileen at 96 - the Philips Screwdriver joke has been around for at least as long as there have been bars in consuites, but I couldn't resist posting it here.

Posted November 24, 2007 1:14 PM by Dennis Howard

Craig R.

Sabra sounds amazing! I have a friend who regularly visits Isreal. I'll have to ask him about it.

Posted November 24, 2007 1:50 PM by Kayjayoh

Does bringing your own onions to a bar count as hacking the Gibson?

Posted November 24, 2007 2:07 PM by Kevin Marks

Hey, Fluorospherians. First time poster, husband of Lexica who's been reading over her shoulder for some time.

As a bartender, it breaks my heart how often "martini" has come to mean "chilled vodka served up" (i.e. in a cocktail glass). Forget asking for onions, I almost "SQUEEEEEE" out loud when a patron asks for a gin martini these days.

Personally, I recommend Plymouth gin for mixed cocktails. It has less of a BAM! JUNIPER! bouquet, and I find it plays well with others. The London Dry gins I find to be a bit overly assertive mixed with anything other than tonic.

And since cocktail olives are the Devil's snack-food, a Gibson is a sublime libation for its simplicity and civilized bearing.

Some people stir theirs because they want that crystal-clear drink. I shake mine till I can't bear to hold the shaker anymore because I want it COLD! I want the tiny chunkies of ice floating on the surface. When I sip it, I want my lips to freeze and taste like I've kissed Ymir's daughter. Who, um... happened to have a small briney olive in her mouth.

And Lexica prompts me to say that while I don't do much poetry... I do filk. You have been warned.

Posted November 24, 2007 2:11 PM by Pirate

Pirate @ #104, one of our family traditions at Christmas was to gift my father with a big fat bottle of Tanqueray gin (another was a 1-lb box of See's soft centers, but I don't recall him mixing the two). I'm not sure where that fits on your scale, but he liked it.

Posted November 24, 2007 2:44 PM by Linkmeister

Nathan @ 84 -- Earl Cooley's having a cow-orker probably means he was a denizen of one of several Usenet groups in the early/mid 90s; alt.folklore.urban is where I remember it best from, but I bet it was also common in alt.religion.kibology and probably talk.bizarre at least.

Posted November 24, 2007 2:45 PM by Todd Larason

Definitely on t.b, and I'm not sure but I don't remember it on a.f.k.

Posted November 24, 2007 3:00 PM by Clifton Royston

Lee @20: Man, I've no idea. A quick Google adds the variation "kangaroo kicker," so maybe it's something Australia? No clue.

And yeah, many drink names don't make sense (screaming orgasm springs to mind), but there are a couple I find both wonderful and perfectly descript. A slow comfortable screw, for instance, is sloe gin, southern comfort, vodka, and orange juice. I've heard this taken to extreme: a long, slow, comfortable screw up against a cold, hard wall, finished with a kiss. As nearly as I can figure, this includes a taller glass, some ice, some amaretto, and some galliano.

Todd @33: I've heard lots of stories about the amounts of vermouth "purists" like in their martinis. There's a story that Winston Churchill (?) used to pour the gin, then leave the room and jostle a bottle of vermouth in another. One of my favorite television moments ever was when Bill Murray appeared on Kilborn's Late Show. When Kilborn left The Daily Show, he brought his "5 questions" bit with him, and one of his questions to Murray was how to make a perfect martini.

Murray stood up and went to Kilborn's minibar, took out a bottle of gin, and poured some into a tumbler, then noted people argue about how much vermouth to put in a martini. Some, he said, like to put a drop of vermouth into the air conditioning system, allowing it to permeate their drink molecule by molecule via diffusion.

His solution was simple, he said, and with that he bent toward the tumbler and whispered, "Vermouth."

He got the question right. But that's probably because he's Bill Murray.

Pirate @104: Your "BAM! JUNIPER!" made my roommate ask me what was so funny. It's like onomatopoeia from the old Batman show, and wouldn't that be awesome?

On the beers: I've discovered I really like a brew called Samichlaus Bier. The bottles have this thing about how rare it is, and they only brew it once a year, or something, but really, it's just good. A little sweet, but certainly heady (though without much head at all). It's wonderful. That and Chimay. God, I love me a Chimay. I went to Father's Office in Santa Monica once, the burgers of which earn their reputation as solid best in the country, and that burger with a nice bottle of Terrible was one of the single greatest gustatory experiences I've ever had.

Now I'm hungry.

Posted November 24, 2007 3:01 PM by Will Entrekin

#98 ::: Craig R. Sabra. Mmm! Yes, it's like drinking bitter-chocolate covered orange peel. There's a pleasant coffee version also.

For single malts: 18-year-old Glenlivet. Talisker. Dalwhinnie. Talisker was my real introduction to whiskey. Sip. Swallow. Oh! as this amazing taste sensation explodes over your palate.

For beginners, I'd suggest Oban or Dalwhinney - both quite smooth. Don't try Laphroaig (very seaweedy) or Ardbeg (iodine) to start with!

#86 ::: CHip "Cask strength" whiskeys are more than 100 proof (the one I got as a 40th birthday present is 53.6% alcohol), and a drop of pure spring water is generally recommended to release the flavour. With "normal" single malts, I prefer them neat, sipped slowly.

Several years ago my now-husband introduced me to real ales (or what I've learned to call micro-brewery beers, when in the USA). I'd never liked "beer" (for which read "lager" but these were a revelation. It took me two years to work up from golden ales and honey ales to stouts and porters, but now I really enjoy the full range and variety, including the Belgian Kriek and Framboise. Some of the UK beer festivals have started offering third-of-a-pint as well as full or half pint. This is great, since it allows me to try more different beers for the same volume/alcohol intake.

In our house we've got a wide variety of single malts, liquers, real ales, ports, wines, ciders (hard ciders, for you over the pond) and others. I've also got more than 60 different flavours of teas and fruit/herbal infusions. They are all different flavours to be savoured and appreciated.

Posted November 24, 2007 3:04 PM by dcb

Linkmeister @ 105

Tanqueray is a London Dry. Quite tasty, but I do prefer it in a G&T.

I did some fill-in bartending at Liquorhemoth Diageo's weekly corporate happy hour @ their SF office and got a chance to try Tanqueray Rangpur. Now THAT'S something worth sampling. The rangpur lime puts a nice spin on the juniper. Another one I think mixes well.

Will @ 108

"ZOWIE!", that's some juniper. Mmmm... juniper!

Posted November 24, 2007 3:15 PM by Pirate

When I was an undergrad, there was one night where a friend showed up with another bottle of vodka after we'd polished off all the OJ making Screwdrivers. We did, however, have a jar of Tang lying around. The end products were christened the NASA Screwdriver and Rocket Fuel - Rocket Fuel being Tang powder mixed directly into the vodka.

The evening was... special.

Posted November 24, 2007 3:17 PM by protected static

Pirate @ 104: When I lived in San Francisco years ago, there was a small bar in the Haight called the Persian Aub Zam Zam Room that served wonderful martinis. Visitors quickly learned to make sure they ordered a gin martini--anything else, and they were usually asked to leave by the bartender, Bruno, who as the owner also had the enviable luxury of being able to choose who he would serve. (I suppose he's lucky to have passed away before the rise of the chocolatini and such.)

Personally, I'm very fond of the aroma of juniper. It's a fairly common ornamental shrub in the 'burbs of California, and is fairly common, too, in parts of the Sierra. So, to me, the berry evokes home. I haven't developed much of a taste yet for gins that have additional flavorings, which seem superfluous if one includes vermouth in the martini's recipe.

If you like Plymouth gin, check out Miller's, which is likewise quite smooth. I'm also a fan of Cascade Mountain gin, from the Bendistillery in Bend, OR. It's a bit sharper than some gins, and has something of an off-putting color, but I like its craft aspect and that it's made from wild juniper berries picked in central Oregon.

Posted November 24, 2007 3:32 PM by Richard Anderson

Sam Kelly, #44: Yeah, I've gotten a lot of "Oh, try this, you can't even TASTE the alcohol," over the years. And guess what? Maybe HE* can't, because he's used to alcohol in stronger mixes -- but to someone like me, who doesn't drink at all because they hate the taste, it's, "ICK! YUCK! Get that stuff away from me!" Usually it doesn't even pass the sniff test; if I can smell the alcohol, I know bloody damn well I'll be able to taste it.

John Chu, #55: The notion that spiking someone else's food or drink is rude is actually of relatively recent vintage; my SWAG is that it's an outgrowth of heightened awareness of food allergies. And there are still significant cultural groups in which it's either considered a terrific joke and/or routinely used against women for the purpose of rendering them incapable of objecting to sex.

Personally, I agree with you; spiking someone's drink is on much the same level as serving someone a dish containing an ingredient they've already said they don't want, without telling them what's in it. Either is cause for me to end an acquaintance, abruptly and with extreme prejudice... and I'll by ghod tell everyone else I know why I'm no longer on terms with that person.

* Almost all the people I've had pull this on me have been male. Now why, I wonder, would a guy be trying so hard to get me to drink? [/sarcasm]

Posted November 24, 2007 3:47 PM by Lee

Welcome, Pirate. Arrr.

Posted November 24, 2007 3:57 PM by Xopher

Nathan #84, Todd Larason #106: Cow-orker is Dilbert slang for coworker.

Posted November 24, 2007 4:06 PM by Earl Cooley III

I like my martinis after the style of the late Queen Mother. she liked hers after the style of Winston Churchill.

2 parts gin.
Take vermouth bottle and bow in direction of Paris.
curl of lemon peel.
Repeat.

But last night, it was the margheritas of victory! The Liberals getting various body parts handed to them by the eleectorate was very nice indeed. The prospect of the Prime Miniature ACTUALLY LOSING HIS SEAT as well (this has only happened once before) is sweet beyond the telling of it.

Posted November 24, 2007 4:14 PM by vian

I like my drinks more sweet than alcoholic. Late-harvest rieslings, Lindemann's Framboise Lambic, and a tall glass of grapefruit juice with a shot each of mango vodka and chambord are my drinks of choice in the wine, beer, and mixed drink categories. Blended mudslides with godiva and chambord are also good, as are those damn orange creamsicle things from Friday's.

If it could possibly be considered an acquired taste, I probably haven't acquired it.

Posted November 24, 2007 4:33 PM by shadowsong

Between short budget and moderate habits, I usually keep one relatively small bottle of whiskey and one of "sweet stuff" in the closet, and have a bit of one or the other most nights. I experiment with different brands, of course....

The "sweet stuff" is usually some liqueur, but lately I've been trying various brandies, which have not turned out good as I hoped. (Paul Maison V.S., eh, Captain Applejack apple brandy, arghh! ;-) )

The whiskey has been going better -- I just finished off the bottle of Old Overholt I'd been drinking for the last month or two, (before that was Bulleit bourbon). Both were nice enough, butwhen I went looking for a new tipple, I found a 375 of The Glenlivet! (Yay!) I'll try that "splash of water" thing, so far I've been sipping it neat....

Posted November 24, 2007 4:38 PM by David Harmon

dcb @ 109, I went in the other direction with beers. Thought that I hated all beer (because I can't choke down mass-market American lagers) until I tried my first stout. It's taken me years to work my way down from dark to light -- from stouts, through porters, brown ales, red ales, and finally down to wheat beers. Still can't do most lagers, and I still prefer beers you can't see through.

I think it goes along with my distinct preference for big red wines.

My favorite pub around here has a 50-beer list, all of which are microbrews or imports -- and they offer beer tasting flights, where you get 4 quarter-pint glasses of 4 different beers. The glasses look like mini-pint-glasses and I like to pretend I am a giant. Fantastic for trying new things.

They also have a top-quality hamburger, and the world's most delicious garlic french fries. Nothing better in winter than a good thick stout and a good burger and fries. (In summer I get a pear and goat cheese salad and a Unibroue Ephemere, for the great green-apple flavor.)

Posted November 24, 2007 4:42 PM by Caroline

Myself, I like sissy drinks.

When I was in the SCA, I would sometimes visit a bar with my Baroness. Short, slender, sophisticated, and One Tough Broad. I'd ask for, say, a brandy Alexander. In her cigarette-roughened contralto, she'd order a double whisky (Laphroaig if they had it), up. Nine times out of ten, the waitress would give us each other's drinks.

It was a sorrow to her that I never developed a taste for proper whisky, but only a small sorrow, because that left more for her.

A few years ago I was at a convention in Dublin, sampled a few local potions to be polite, and found that I like Irish whiskey well enough to drink a bit of it. I don't know what the Scots and the Irish are doing differently, other than the spelling.

Posted November 24, 2007 5:21 PM by Steve Jackson

#22, Terry: Unlike those of you unfortunate enough not to live in Brooklyn, we have LeNell's. Here's their "whisk(e)y" page.

#46, Abi: Good Scotch gets more than a "wee corner" around here. I'm fond of Islay malts (Lagavulin is my favorite); Teresa prefers the high-noted Speysides like Glenmorangie. Somewhere on a hard drive I have a picture of Teresa dipping her hand into the Spey.

Posted November 24, 2007 5:25 PM by Patrick Nielsen Hayden

I don't do tequila, most gins, southern comfort, Ratzputz and Cynar. Blended whiskies are problematic. Most are, IMO, a ruination of the good stuff. Making them is a rare art, and most blends were made by hacks.

Vodka, I've had lots, the good, the bad, the ugly. The good, not bad. The ugly, not bad. The vast middle, why bother?

Single malt. My first was Laphroig... ah! It changed how I looked at spirits. Complex, rich, overwhelming and subtle. I'm not a big McCallan fan. The younger stuff (less than 18) tastes of butyl rubber to me. The older stuff is pricier than I want to spend.

I like Bombay Sapphire (the addition of Grains of Paradise; which is the only difference, changes it radically). Mallaca is pretty good. Plymouth and Hendricks have their place. I used to freeze my gin, and use no ice in my martinis, but the small amount of water added by chilling it with the ice, opens the gin up, the same way a "wee drap" of water does for whisky (which tasters test at about 40 proof, to get all the flavors; free of the masking notes of the alcohol. I don't use that much).

I was hooked to martinis about 20 years ago when a friend induced me to taste hers (which had a decent taste of vermouth) and it tasted as perfume smells.

I'm not a big fan of really sweet mixed drinks (the Manhattan being the big exception. As I said somewhere else, I can buy Old Overholt, but in a bar it's a rare thing, and nothing else tastes quite the same. Nathan knew what he was doing), and at home it's usually wine, or ales.

What taste will replicate an Irish stout? Nothing. I'm told some who try to fake it add a small amount of anise to the mash. This has never made it for me. Speaking with a british brewer I was told the secret to making a decent Irish Stout is to akalinize the water, because the Liffy drains a huge amount of limestone.

Posted November 24, 2007 5:26 PM by Terry Karney

#111: While I was an undergrad at the University of Chicago, I ended up hanging out with a lot of linguistics grad students. Linguistics was a notoriously heavy-drinking department; the official drink of the department "teas" was claimed to be 'Leering Death': Kool-aid powder mixed with vodka.

Posted November 24, 2007 5:32 PM by Clifton Royston

I am about to head for a grocery store to get a bottle of cocktail onions. I can't stand it any more.

(BTW, last night what I had was a gin martini up with a twist, then two dirty martinis, the which I introduced to Doyle. She liked it, adding another Drink She Likes to the list. (Her first beverage last night was a Cosmopolitan, which they had no trouble making because they had all the ingredients. Grumble.))

Posted November 24, 2007 5:41 PM by James D. Macdonald

I want some tranya. And a bottle of segir.

Posted November 24, 2007 5:53 PM by Serge

In this thread, I've counted at least three different versions of how Winston Churchill prepared martinis, none of them the story I heard (that he would pour the gin, glance at a bottle of vermouth on the other side of the room, and stir).

So I wonder: are all these stories apocryphal? Is one accurate, and the rest false? Or did he do something different every time?

Posted November 24, 2007 6:01 PM by broundy

And I still don't understand why people who evidently don't want vermouth in their drink insist on calling it a 'martini' rather than 'gin' or 'gin with an olive' or something which actually means 'gin with an olive'.

Posted November 24, 2007 6:07 PM by Todd Larason

I don't like gin, the first time someone made me 'oh my ghod he makes the best gin and tonic!' beverage I took a sip, then passed. When I was five I tried my mom's perfume. The similarity made my stomach flip.

I did not think I liked scotch, my father favored Grants and Dewars and they taste like iodine to me. Then Jim and Star and a couple other guilty parties introduced me to the single malt, upper end ones like Laphroaig(sp bad I'm sure). I like the Orkney ones best, and am saved from perdition because they're all expensive.

Posted November 24, 2007 6:14 PM by Paula Helm Murray

I've never been a big fan of gin, but I do like home-made sloe gin - savoured all the more for the effort of making it.

David Goldfarb @ 49, Terry Karney @ 122, Paula Helm Murray @ 128: It's amazing how many of us have had our attitudes to whisky changed by an introduction to decent single malts... Earlier this year I introduced an acquaintance, who said she didn't like beer (by which she meant lager) first to micro-brewery beer (we were in Wisconsin, so there were some nice ones) then (after she'd said in surprise "oh, that tastes quite nice!") to single malt (I'd bought some in duty-free on the way over from the UK). Now she's spoilt. I'm a bad woman.

Caroline @ 119 - I still don't like largers. I want my beer with decent taste!

Posted November 24, 2007 6:41 PM by dcb

Speaking of drops: The abbreviation for "drop" is GTT. For "Drops," it's GTTs.

And there are 15 GTTs per Ml. Thus, a drop is 0.07 mL, and two drops is 0.13 mL. Of Vermouth.

Posted November 24, 2007 6:51 PM by James D. Macdonald

Ghh. Alky. Never cared for it. Give me half a gallon of Coca-Cola any day. The only exceptions being a good, sweet wine: plum wine, berry win