you keep it in the dungeon with the S&M setup

Posted December 24, 2007 7:02 PM by bryan

I keep it on an island off Costa Rica.

Posted December 24, 2007 7:21 PM by Andrew

Whose comfort?

Posted December 24, 2007 7:23 PM by Lila

Google ads on this thread as of now:

Emily Post Book
Chinese Etiquette
Making Wedding Program
Cheap Hawaii Wedding
Pearl Wedding Jewelry.

What connection any of these may have with keeping (or not) dinosaurs in the attic for comfort is left as an exercise for the reader.

Posted December 24, 2007 7:24 PM by Lila

I'd prefer to live behind words like that, I think, so they could serve as a shield between me and people who follow too many rules.

That's unless there's a rule about which side to approach people on, of course. In that case I'd live by the words and keep them to that side.

Posted December 24, 2007 7:25 PM by Iain

98-point-six!

Posted December 24, 2007 7:26 PM by Bob Oldendorf

Bing! We have a winner.

What has Bob won? Well, let's just say I'd like to know how large his attic is.

Posted December 24, 2007 7:30 PM by abi

Actually, I have found signs of dinosaurs nesting in our attic (on the one time we opened up the hatch and went up there) -- there's a hole under the eaves where they sneak in. Most annoying -- they poop indiscriminately, and I'm going to have to get the hole patched lest they start nesting there.

Posted December 24, 2007 7:31 PM by Charlie Stross

I dunno. Depending the dino's surface area coverage relative to the roof, it might make good insulation. Of course, one needn't feed normal insulation.

Posted December 24, 2007 7:37 PM by fishbane

Ten is fine with me.

Why should I want a break from Christmas... I'm with Scrooge and wish we kept the season's sentiments in our hearts the whole year round.

So, Happy Holidays to one and all.

Posted December 24, 2007 7:47 PM by Terry Karney

If he wants a dinosaur, Alex Comfort can keep it in his own damn attic.

Posted December 24, 2007 7:53 PM by Allan Beatty

Christmas, I have no problem with; December, now, sneaky and disaster prone month that it is, is another matter.

So the 24th of December, 2007, just to lull me into a false sense of security, I'm sure, it was bright and breezy and also Monday, so I got flaundered sheets and nightgowns nicely aired - not dry, but within 20 drier minutes of dry - out on the line. I am practicing optimism and trying to believe this doesn't mean we will be smacked in the face with an ice storm tomorrow. I'll let you know how that turns out.

Posted December 24, 2007 7:59 PM by JESR

One does not keep a dinosaur in the attic for comfort.

Why?
I dino.
Saury.

Posted December 24, 2007 8:05 PM by Serge

Jurattic Park?

Posted December 24, 2007 8:31 PM by Steve C.

You shouldn't keep dinosaurs in the attic because attics are drafty and your dinosaur might get cold

Posted December 24, 2007 8:39 PM by fritz

One does not keep a dinosaur in the attic for comfort.

No, one keeps them there because the basement is already full of ghouls.

Doesn't one?

Posted December 24, 2007 8:53 PM by Shawn M Bilodeau

"Mommy, why does Uncle Frank keep velociraptors in the attic?"

"For the children who ask too many annoying questions, Timmy."

Posted December 24, 2007 9:02 PM by Bill Humphries

No, one keeps them there because the basement is already full of ghouls.

Doesn't one?

I suppose it depends on your household layout. I only have one ghoul, and it seems quite content in the crawl space next to the kid's room. Plus, it helps the kids develop an active imagination.

Posted December 24, 2007 9:03 PM by fishbane

The principal reason for keeping a dinosaur in the attic, of course, is that they really don't do well in company. It's especially annoying when they keep insisting that all our problems would be solved if we went back on the gold standard, brought back the cat o' nine tails, and restored the Assyrian empire.

Posted December 24, 2007 9:08 PM by Fragano Ledgister

eventually you just run out of cays
the mainland comes upon you like a shock
even the angry ones fall on their knees

one cannot tell another what he sees
for feelings are so easy still to mock
eventually you just run out of cays

to get there you must go against the breeze
though other forces may your purpose block
even the angry ones fall on their knees

we have so many names for these blue seas
and we still cannot count them dock to dock
eventually you just run out of cays

we drank the bottle right down to the lees
but although others still would not take stock
even the angry ones fall on their knees

so soon a chance to rest and take your ease
once past the threats of shallows reef and rock
eventually you just run out of cays
even the angry ones fall on their knees

Posted December 24, 2007 9:14 PM by Fragano Ledgister

Fragano @19: I thought about restoring the Assyrian Empire as a craft project, but gave up when I priced all the gold leaf and camel hair brushes I'd need.

I hear the MIT first years have to restore the Hapsburgs as their biology lab practical.

Posted December 24, 2007 9:24 PM by Bill Humphries

Until I manage to build a library, the (habitable, but prone to temperature extremes) attic does indeed perform the function of attics through the ages, namely storing ancient objects against future needs.

I'm hoping nothing (beyond the unusual wind) came in with the colossal thump and blown open windows last night - doubtless I'll find out eventually.

Back to trying to figure out where the @#*(&$*( this blasted part of the wiring connects to, and whether it's really on the breaker I think it's on...

Posted December 24, 2007 9:26 PM by xeger

Bill Humphries #21: Plus all the brick you'd need.

I presume that Harvard is working on restoring the Bourbons.

Posted December 24, 2007 9:34 PM by Fragano Ledgister

I hear the MIT first years have to restore the Hapsburgs as their biology lab practical.

I'm usually a wild-eyed techno optimist, but can we all agree that this is not tech that should trickle down to the Scadians, etc.?

Posted December 24, 2007 9:42 PM by fishbane

Who is the little man who enters my attic, the fillet buttered in his own oils? ...

I am Jormungand, the Last Dinosaur, destroyer, devourer, ravager of kingdoms and epochs, all greed and covetness,[sic] brooding loneliness. Once I was Dragon, but in this scientific age that is no longer stylish. The flames I kept for high drama.

-- The High House, by James Stoddard.

Posted December 24, 2007 10:00 PM by David Harmon

Grr -- I knew the quote, and am shamed on the field of quote-identification because I was delayed by... by... a terrible frost that killed all the trees on which ameroid combompeters grow.

So there.

(Or maybe I was downloading videos.)

_The High House_ had so many lovely things in it. Did Stoddard ever write anything after that and the sequel?

Posted December 24, 2007 10:14 PM by Andrew Plotkin

One keeps the dinosaur in the attic to fend off the bats whilst protecting the content of Great-Uncle Smedley's WWI footlocker from those of ill intent.

Although truth be told, I think this would be a cse of the cure being worse than the disease...

Fragano @ 20: ***applause!!***

General comment--I have read more poetry in Making Light's comments in the few months I've been semi-lurking, than in several years prior to that happy linking-over-from Scalzi's-place. You people rock!

Posted December 24, 2007 10:22 PM by Syd

No, one keeps dinosaurs in the attic until you can give them to the Republicans to run for office.

Posted December 24, 2007 10:28 PM by Magenta Griffith

This seems as good an opportunity as any to wish all people (and dionosaurs) of good will "Happy Holidays!".

For some unfathomable reason I seem to think this is most apropriate for the period from All Hallow's Eve (Samhain) through Valentine's Day, but actually it applies to all the holidays people celebrate, throughout the year.

Posted December 24, 2007 10:33 PM by Don Fitch

Shawn @ 16... My house doesn't have a basement, which is why I keep graboids down there.

Posted December 24, 2007 10:40 PM by Serge

(hee hee, somebody besides me knows the ameroid combompeters line!)

"Ballad of Eskimo Nell" vs. Blatant Beast, anyone?

Posted December 24, 2007 10:43 PM by Lila

Andrew @#26: Wikipedia grants him a couple more short stories, but that seems to be it. Too bad....

Also, I wish they'd republish The False House, last I heard it was out-of-print, and I haven't found a copy yet in my local used-book stores.

And now, I will go to bed!

Posted December 24, 2007 10:50 PM by David Harmon

Stoddard had a short story in the October issue of The Magazine of Fantasy and Science Fiction (http://goliath.ecnext.com/coms2/gi_0199-6938972/The-star-to-every-wandering.html).

I haven't read any of his short works, but I really enjoyed both of his novels.

Posted December 24, 2007 11:42 PM by Adam Lipkin

I'd settle for a nice, not-too-fat dragonet to get up in my not-very-big attic and EAT the fsking squirrels. Gonna have to get upthere with the live trap and relocate the tree rats.

Posted December 24, 2007 11:43 PM by Paula Helm Murray

Serge, nothing I can say does justice to those puns.

Posted December 25, 2007 12:09 AM by Teresa Nielsen Hayden

Charlie #8
Actually, I have found signs of dinosaurs nesting in our attic (on the one time we opened up the hatch and went up there) -- there's a hole under the eaves where they sneak in...

I'm glad that the ones that show up in my yard, limit their visitations to the grounds, the trees, the bushes, perching on the deck rails, nesting in the deck supports, perching on the flue of the fireplace, nesting in the trees, and roosting on wires (gets messy when they sit the electric or telephone wires to the house that are over the car, but...)

#24 fishbane

You're way too late there, the parts of the SCA located in eastern Massachusetts, got started by college students and graduates of MIT, Harvard, Brandeis, etc. There was even one fellow who was a civil engineering student at MIT whose SCAdian person was "Duncan the Peasant." "I'm a peasant. I'm not a knight/aspiring knight. I don't fight. I don't do anything I don't want to do, and you can't make me! I'm a peasant!

Posted December 25, 2007 12:19 AM by Paula Lieberman

For authoritative recommendations, see How to Keep Dinosaurs, by Robert Mash.

Posted December 25, 2007 12:36 AM by Brenda Kalt

David Harmon @ 32:

Try here. No idea how long these will remain, those...

Posted December 25, 2007 12:43 AM by Syd

me @ 38: Should be "though", not "those"...egad...

Posted December 25, 2007 12:44 AM by Syd

No, one keeps a dinosaur in the attic for sodomy.

Posted December 25, 2007 12:48 AM by Luthe

Teresa @ 35... nothing I can say does justice to those puns

If not justice, shall pun-ishment be meted out?

Posted December 25, 2007 1:03 AM by Serge

Paula Helm Murray @ 34 ...
I'd settle for a nice, not-too-fat dragonet to get up in my not-very-big attic and EAT the fsking squirrels. Gonna have to get upthere with the live trap and relocate the tree rats.

Despite the assurances of the roofer that replacing the roof would work wonders to reduce the recurring presence of Procyon lotor peering through the skylight, and scampering about on the roof with degenerately noisy paws, the blasted beasts don't appear to have received the memo, and have continued on their merry way[0].

[0] I have a lingering suspicion that I've misplaced the punctuation in a way that suggests odd things about either my roof or roofer, but can't quite decide how I'd fix it, anyways.

Posted December 25, 2007 1:56 AM by xeger

One does it because one's hovercraft is full of eels.

Posted December 25, 2007 2:01 AM by Jordin Kare

Nor does one keep dinosaurs in Attica for their comfort.

Posted December 25, 2007 3:26 AM by BSD

I have little birds in my attic, or at least in the roof. I see them very often dragging bits and pieces up there (spiderwebs, other feathers, lengths of yarn I leave out for them; today, a sprig of wormwood) and when we lie in bed, we can hear their babies squawking to be fed.

Posted December 25, 2007 4:35 AM by flowery tops

I'd have thought it was obvious. He's shy and we've had to give his normal room to Aunt Sophie who is here for Christmas with her Pekinese, Scratch.

He understands.

Posted December 25, 2007 5:54 AM by Martyn Taylor

David Harmon nails the source of the quote at 25. I like Jormungand; he's nicely acerbic. Oracles should try to eat one when consulted.

The False House is less satisfying than The High House, but I'm fond of them both.

Posted December 25, 2007 6:06 AM by abi

In our previous house we had an owl and her owlets nesting in the eaves. The "who-ooo"s were actually kind of restful, and they were much better mousers than the dog (he preferred voles).

Posted December 25, 2007 6:44 AM by Bruce Cohen (SpeakerToManagers)

Serge, nothing I can say does justice to those puns.

Perhaps a mob of peasants with pitchforks and torches?

Posted December 25, 2007 6:47 AM by Bruce Cohen (SpeakerToManagers)

You think our way of living inhumane,
because we keep a dino under roof?
Not so, I say, let me supply the proof.
I'll point out that the reptile's quite urbane;
and doesn't like to sleep out in the rain,
nor hunt and kill a meal upon the hoof.
That's good, for here the prey would make a "Woof",
and neighbors would react with deep disdain.
Besides the cold-blood much prefers the heat
that insulation can provide up there
to cold and rain that's frequent in this clime.
Our attic guest is really rather sweet,
with style of conversation that's quite rare.
worth keeping close although beyond its time.

Posted December 25, 2007 7:10 AM by Bruce Cohen (SpeakerToManagers)

David Harmon @ 32, et. al.,

Powells has 1 copy of "The High House" in stock.

Posted December 25, 2007 7:47 AM by Bruce Cohen (SpeakerToManagers)

I just saw the sidelight on the death of Oscar Peterson. Damn! Why can't the great ones be immortal?

Posted December 25, 2007 7:50 AM by Bruce Cohen (SpeakerToManagers)

From Girl Genius today, Santa Klaus.

Posted December 25, 2007 8:16 AM by Jon Meltzer

xeger @ 42

Is it permitted to ask how P. lotor gets on the roof? (I've only seen it on the ground, myself.)

Posted December 25, 2007 8:38 AM by P J Evans

Sasha once wanted to keep a dragon in the fire escape. When I pointed out that we wouldn't be able to get out in case of fire, he explained that by far the likeliest source of fire would be the dragon, and then we could go out the front.

Posted December 25, 2007 8:42 AM by Jo Walton

Bruce Cohen @ 49... I'm waiting for the intercontinental hollistic mistletoes's rain of destruction.

Posted December 25, 2007 8:53 AM by Serge

#34 Paula Helm Murray

Live traps for mice and squirrels in Massachusetts are bad ideas unless you're feeding them to your pet snake or some such--if you trap mice or squirrels and haul them somewhere else and release them and you get caught doing it, you're caught breaking a state law, and at a minimum get fined. There's no shortage of gray squirrel, mice, rats, etc., and moving them from your house, to infest somewhere else, is the objection.

Other states probably have similar laws. You catch it, you kill it.

Posted December 25, 2007 9:57 AM by Paula Lieberman

Aren't chickens dinosaurs? Or close enough? Not sure they should be kept in th'attic though.

Posted December 25, 2007 10:07 AM by bill wringe

Wouldn't a dragon in the attic interfere with the yarn stash?

Posted December 25, 2007 10:21 AM by Dena Shunra

Mr. Smeglivious D'Aunot was a Dragon of some foreign nation. He lived in the dining room and was quite proud of it, and our family was quite proud to have him living there. He was much loved and had only one fault, and that one was not at all of his making. He had no fire. How wonderful it would have been on Christmas Mornings to have him snort a spurt of flame on a plateful of scones and butter, but he was incapable of this simple, basic act of Dragonity.

Still, we loved him, and would have been happy to have him living in the Dining room in perpetuity, lack of internal combustion or not, were it not for a fateful visit one September evening by the Rector as we were all sitting down to Dinner. Nobody liked the Rector after first meeting him, he was a man that looked especially kind and delightful and was in reality a malicious old coot with no love of any human being. There was a rumour in the neighborhood that he was actually descended from trolls, due to his strange and alarming readings of Biblical texts, but that is another matter to be discussed at another time.

Posted December 25, 2007 10:39 AM by bryan

"Dino!"
"What?"
"Drag Juras over here!"

Posted December 25, 2007 11:20 AM by Serge

We keep ours on top of the fridge so people don't overeat.

Posted December 25, 2007 11:35 AM by Sarah

P J Evans @ 54 ...
Is it permitted to ask how P. lotor gets on the roof? (I've only seen it on the ground, myself.)

P. lotor is a great climber of things, among them trees, houses and walls - in this case, I expect access to the roof via trees and neighbours houses. It's pretty common for us to find the younger ones chasing each other up the (small) trees in the front yard, as well.

Posted December 25, 2007 11:38 AM by xeger

Lila@31: I expect a lot of people here know "ameroid combopeters"; it's not as quoted as "Yngvi is a louse", but comes from the same respectable source (just republished by NESFA complete and with additional material) -- and many people here respect sources.

Paula@36: and a few years later, the peasants had their own guild, with the duty of presenting the baron with a rock each year. Now they're becoming more popular; a much-decorated lady is gradually handing back her orders in order to take up a Gypsy persona.

Posted December 25, 2007 12:10 PM by CHip

Paula Helm Murray @34, Paula Lieberman @57: My landlord 'live traps' the squirrels which occasionally get into the attic, and releases them into a nearby park. Don't know what the laws are with regards to this here in NY, but if you aren't allowed to release the catch, why allow the sale of live traps in the first place? You're only allowed so you can feed a snake?

Perhaps these regulations apply to professional exterminators. In that case, I could see releasing live catches in public places equivalent to illicit dumping of toxic waste.

With regards to Massachusetts: wasn't there a thread on ML about someone releasing a squirrel off of a bridge in Boston, to see a hawk swoop down and catch it in the air? My Google-fu is not up to the task this morning...

Posted December 25, 2007 12:22 PM by Rob Rusick

Some gifts from Kris Kringle are better kept wrapped.

A man in a Santa hat was arrested Sunday night for investigation of drunken driving after he was spotted outside Grauman's Chinese Theater in Hollywood wearing a wig, a red lace camisole and a purple G-string, police said.

"We are pretty sure this is not the Santa Claus," Deputy Chief Ken Garner said.

Posted December 25, 2007 12:23 PM by Claude Muncey

Bruce Cohen (SpeakerToManagers) #50: *Applause*

Syd #27 Thanks.

Serge #61: Alp!! Alp!!

Posted December 25, 2007 12:59 PM by Fragano Ledgister

CHip #64: True, and some of us play at checks (while worrying about Czechs turning into werewolves)...

Posted December 25, 2007 1:01 PM by Fragano Ledgister

Claude @ #66, I sincerely hope the soundtrack for that arrest was Eartha Kitt singing "Santa Baby."

Posted December 25, 2007 1:09 PM by Linkmeister

Czechs turning into werewolves? I worry more about them taking up hang-gliding, which would involve the police and the bank...

After all, Czech kiting is against the law, isn't it?

(punning, ducking, and running)

Posted December 25, 2007 1:32 PM by Scott D-S

Scott D-S #70: Welcome to the pun club! Now, you just need to get a syllogismobile.

Posted December 25, 2007 2:19 PM by Fragano Ledgister

About raccoons climbing things: anyone whose lived in close proximity to a tall tree has probably been awakened more than once by a mysterious booming thump- this is most probably a raccoon in a hurry to get some where, dropping out of the tree onto your roof.

About live-traps: fur trappers are coming to prefer them, as they do not damage the pelt. Unfortunately, traps set fot raccoons are more often productive of squirrels, or at least they are at my sister's house.

Posted December 25, 2007 2:20 PM by JESR

Jurassic parking meter men read gauges on the quay
For conèd powers meteor bits falling in the spray
The same wassail that's better warm when cold is still okay
And the dinos block drafts and muffle the noise, muffle the noise,
So our singing aloud no neighbor annoys.

Posted December 25, 2007 3:21 PM by Dan Hoey

Rob #65

http://www.cityofmelrose.org/living_with_wildlife_in_suburbia.htm
Massachusetts General Law, Chapter 131, Section 37, gives property owners the right to use lawful means to destroy wildlife in the act of causing damage or threatening personal safety. Landowners may only deal with wildlife actually causing damage or posing immediate threats. No one may randomly destroy wildlife as a preventive measure. It is illegal for a property owner to live-trap a problem animal and move it for release to public or private property.

Here is the Official State Information...

http://www.mass.gov/dfwele/dfw/wildlife/living/moving_wildlife.htm

Moving Wild Animals is Against the Law!

Capturing a wild animal and releasing it in another area is prohibited by Massachusetts law. Rabies in raccoons is spreading throughout the eastern United States. Moving animals from one area to another may spread this or other diseases to new areas.

To protect people and wildlife, DO NOT RELOCATE PROBLEM WILDLIFE! Wild animals sometimes damage homes, gardens and lawns. Often people want to catch the problem animals and release them someplace else. Massachusetts law prohibits moving any live wild animal from one area to another. This law has been in effect for many years, protecting both people and wildlife.

Here are some Reasons Wild Animals should not be Relocated:
Capturing a wild animal and releasing it somewhere else may spread disease(s) into populations of animals (including pets) that did not have the disease(s) previously. Diseases such as Rabies and Canine Distemper have been spread by people who captured an animal in one area and released it somewhere else.
Wild animals already live where you release your problem animal. Wherever you plan to release a problem animal, there are already resident animals with established territories competing among themselves for food and denning sites. When a new animal is introduced, competition for these limited resources is intensified, causing increased stress and conflict within the resident population, as well as hardship or death for the relocated animal.
Relocated animals often return to where you caught them. Squirrels, raccoons and other wildlife can return from translocations of 5, 10, or even 15 miles. Such animals are more likely to be killed by automobiles or succumb to other accidents as they cross unfamiliar areas while attempting to return to their original territories.
Relocation only transfers your problem to someone else. In an unfamiliar territory, an animal accustomed to living near people is likely to seek out human habitations and damage someone else's property.
Moving an animal does not solve the problem. Within a short period of time, other individuals of the same or another species will move in, unless food (garbage, pet food, grain) is removed, and access to gardens, chimneys and attics is blocked.
Information on methods or techniques to control damage caused by wildlife is available in the Wildlife Information area of our website or by contacting the MassWildlife District office which serves your community

Posted December 25, 2007 3:24 PM by Paula Lieberman

My mom lives in Des Moines, Iowa. Although they have plenty of raccoons and squirrels around, she's told me about all the damage that chipmunks do. Locally, they're referred to as "squiddies", which sparks all sorts of very strange associations.

Posted December 25, 2007 3:43 PM by Debbie

I wouldn't keep a dinosaur in the attic for Comfort, but possibly for a nice brandy.

Posted December 25, 2007 3:59 PM by Kayjayoh

Scott 70: Well, if they're running from the cops in a large American city, they can stop in to hide in any of the Czech-cacheing places.

Posted December 25, 2007 4:55 PM by Xopher

@70 - Well, we've got one Czech that gets too rowdy in the local tavern, but we've been informed that it's illegal to forcibly eject him.

...a number N is the class of all classes containing N elements...

Posted December 25, 2007 5:00 PM by Steve

Paula Lieberman #74: Wow, it sounds like the wild animals have more rights than the property owners in that jurisdiction. Not moving wild animals off your property endangers your own pets. It's fine if the animal is in one of the limited groups that PAC personnel are allowed to deal with, but what if PeTA kidnaps a tiger from a zoo and releases it into a suburb, to roam free? If it's not directly attacking a person, it sounds like it would have diplomatic immunity. What recourse would a property owner have? A SWAT team? Or are there safety net laws to cover situations in which Problem Animal Control Agents are not allowed to intervene?

Posted December 25, 2007 5:18 PM by Earl Cooley III

(The scene, an elevator inside a Los Angeles glass tower. The only passengers are a young man and a middle-aged executive type.)

"Sir?"
"Yes, young man?"
"Would you happen to be Paul Dirac, of Dirac2Video Productions?"
"I am. but I am about to go to an important meeting. If you have a movie proposal, can you do it quickly?"
"Certainly. I think that sci-fi horror has run into a rut."
"That is certainly true. Sharks. Spiders. Scarabs. Snakes. Dinosaurs. There are only so many movies that enough of the public will be interested in for me to make a profit."
"Well I have this script I'm working on that your company might be interested in, as it does projects that are both innovative and commercial."
"I'm listening."
"The script's title says it all."
"Go ahead."
"It's... Are you ready?... Voleciraptors."
"(...)"

Posted December 25, 2007 6:24 PM by Serge

As I recall, the Great Slow Kings frequented basements, not attics. Of course, that was due to "geologic upheavals" rather than intent.

Posted December 25, 2007 6:25 PM by Maybear

Earl #79

Paula Lieberman #74: Wow, it sounds like the wild animals have more rights than the property owners in that jurisdiction. Not moving wild animals off your property endangers your own pets. It's fine if the animal is in one of the limited groups that PAC personnel are allowed to deal with, but what if PeTA kidnaps a tiger from a zoo and releases it into a suburb, to roam free?

From my post, the quote from the law on the subject"...gives property owners the right to use lawful means to destroy wildlife in the act of causing damage or threatening personal safety"

A hungry tiger is a definte threat to personal safe.

As for pets. there is something called a "leash law" for dogs. Free-roaming dogs can be much more menaces to pets and children than tigers are in the USA--any tiger running around loose didn't get there on its own, for one thing they are not native wildlife. For another thing, tigers don't form feral packs that go after livestock, pets, and children--which dog packs -will- do.

Regarding livestock, the intelligent farmer in the northeast with animals that can't take predators on, will have one or more guard dogs, or a guard llama, for protecting the livestock. In a coyote versus llama or Grand Pyrenese dog confrontation, the coyote -loses-. I've seen several farms where a llama's bonded to the smaller livestock (locality-owned farm in Peabody, Gore Place in Waltham--at Gore Place kids happily gambol and play king of the hill on the llama's back) or where one or more dogs are present as guard animals.
There are a number of signs up at the local supermarket seeking disappeared cats--things that can happen to them aren't only coyotes, even though cats and dogs sold for use in research projects are not supposed to be pets, a former boyfriend who worked at Mass General told me that some of the animals used in research there, had to have been pets because some of them behaved like pets, not like animals raised as non-petss... the companies selling the animals are not apparently all acting within the law regarding raising animals to be research subjects and not e.g. collection/capturing/otherwise obtaining pets.

Posted December 25, 2007 6:41 PM by Paula Lieberman

And now the ads on the sidebar are for "Raccoon Removal" and such!

Raccoon Removal
Removing Raccoons from your attic Removing Raccoons from your chimney
pacofhudson.com

Precision Wildlife
Bat, birds, wildlife, & more! Owner operated wildlife co.
www.precisionwildlife.com

Raccoon Control Center
Practical advice, traps, fences, repellents for home & garden.
www.raccoon-x.com

Animal Traps & Lures
Live Animal Traps, Leg & Body Traps Trapping Baits, Lures & Supplies
www.flemingoutdoors.com

Mice & Rat Control
Rid Your Home Of Mice & Rats. Contact Us And We'll Exterminate!
www.RegionalPestControl.com

Calling batwrangler....

However, that really are much better choices than promotions for national political candidates whose positions many of the regulars in here find detestable and contemptible and repulsive! Plus, the services are ones that at least some of the people in here, are interested in contracting for... (Then there were l'affaires Messieurs Skunk with the NESFA Clubhouse some years back, alas....)

Posted December 25, 2007 7:12 PM by Paula Lieberman

[TTTO of the song that went with the cartoon about "Good King Leonardo" ]

Dinosaur removal,
Oman's our next stop, *
Got a critter problem,
Weasels we make pop!

Those squirrels in the feeder,
We will drive away,
Let the birds go dining,
Without the tree rats play!

Then up to the attic we'll go
With nets and traps galore,
We'll clean them out and in the rout,
They'll be there nevermore!

Vermin we make vanish
And they'll not be back,
Got a critter problem,
We'll make those vermin pack
Mice to rats to chipmunks,
They'll all go away,
No more thumpings nightly,
And no more dung by day,

We provide a service,
To appreciate
Drive the bats from belfries,
No vermin is your fate!
From spring and through the summer
The winter past the fall,
No more thumps or cheepings
No noises down the hall,
We get them out and and you will shout,
They're gone each one and all!

* I think it's Oman that's paying to have a Jurassic Park built...

Posted December 25, 2007 7:41 PM by Paula Lieberman

Fragano Ledgister @ 67

Thank you.

Posted December 25, 2007 8:10 PM by Bruce Cohen (SpeakerToManagers)

Bravo, Paula!

Posted December 25, 2007 9:24 PM by Clifton Royston

I do not keep my sister in the attic because she has declared our house a free zone for velociraptors. She enforces the rule with her powers of Tickling Little Sisters.

Posted December 25, 2007 9:54 PM by Lindra

#86 Thanks Clifton.

Meanwhile, I wonder what the most peculiar stuff can get gotten from Google for side bar ads here...

Troll contemp'ry Google ads, oh, tra-la-la-la, la la la la!

Hark the pea-brained AI brain,
Advertisements so inane!
Penis length and John McCain,
All those things, across the grain!
Ads for books and ads for edits,
From the scammers with bad credits,
Vanity presses infest,
Poisoning the manifest,
Vanity presses in fest,
Some things are not for the best!

Posted December 25, 2007 10:02 PM by Paula Lieberman

There's a copy of How to Attract the Wombat ready to hand, but few dinosaurs are covered therein.

Posted December 25, 2007 10:03 PM by Vicki

I might end up getting False House at Amazon if I can't find it locally, but if I only get that, I'd end up paying almost as much for shipping as for the book. Not to mention I want to support my local bookstores, and there are lots of them around here!

Earl @ #79: No, it's just that you can't just go slaughtering everything in the vicinity because some of those "varmints" might get into your garbage or suchlike.

As described, if something's actually posing a problem, you can kill it, but (for reasons well-described at #74) rounding it up and dumping it elsewhere is Not Cool. Whether you can capture it permanently will depend on what animals you're allowed to keep in your house. (I don't remember what Massachusetts' rules were.) I would assume that if a tiger showed up loose, the local police would (possibly shoot it outright) or (more likely) call the nearest zoo for assistance.

Posted December 25, 2007 10:04 PM by David Harmon

Before I even bought the trap I first called animal contol, they suggested I call Mo. Dept. of Conservation because they will do nothing for pests on private property,

The nice lady at MoDC said, "Well, if they're damaging your property you can catch them and do what you want with them, squirrels aren't any kind of protected."

I told her I intended to trap them. She got my address info particulars and said, "As long as we know it's okay, I'll put it on file. And BE SURE to take them more than 10 miles away or they will be back within a week..."

I relocate to Minor Park. For one thing it's a bit farther than 15 miles away, for another I can get them well away from roads, etc. Swope is nice but It's TOO CLOSE.

I would hire someone to deal with raccoons, i have a healthy respect for them. Squirrels, feh.

Posted December 25, 2007 10:10 PM by Paula Helm Murray

Pie report: Yum! (also, advice to those making it, it will serve Lots. Six to eight people if there's nothing else with it; with side dishes and possible other stuff, figure twice that many.

But, oh yeah, yum!
(And a mandoline is great for slicing celery root. Next time I think we may do it julienned.)

Posted December 25, 2007 10:26 PM by P J Evans

Serge #80

Somehow I don't think that fits, "This is beautiful, therefore it must be true." [See Dirac do the half-spinning away....]

Posted December 25, 2007 10:38 PM by Paula Lieberman

David #90 and Paula H M #91:

A couple years ago there was a Complete Idiot Cop in Arlington who had had TWO timber rattlers as "pets" (illegal ones) in his house, and at least one of them got loose.... First he claimed that they hadn't been there deliberately, and then the truth got out.

Different states, though, have different wildlife laws. I think that squirrels are actually legal game animals here. Canada geese are problems--there are spring and fall goose seasons, but the real issue is that the law has not caught up with their presence being non-migratory birds, rather than migratory ones. The last farmer in town does not like Canada geese (very few adults do around here...), and has a hunter who comes out during goose season who shoots Canada geese out in the fields.

One of the sites I checked mentions that it's not legal to keep (native wildlife) wild animals in the state (people with special permits for e.g. animal rehabbing are exceptions).

Ironically, most "domestic ducks" are actually mallards which have been domesticated and bred to have white feathers--and mallards are native wildlife.... I was quite astonished to find that out, that the domestic duck is a native American species, thinking of e.g. Beijing Duck and so.

(For that matter, the idiot bird-brained domestic turkey, is also native wildlife that got domesticated, and domestic and wild turkeys are interfertile... the state laws don't seem all that reasonsable thinking about such things).

Posted December 25, 2007 10:52 PM by Paula Lieberman

Paula @88, you think Google's AI is screwy, just mention R*n P*ul in a blog post and you'll be awash in triumphalist consuite libertarians.

Posted December 25, 2007 11:54 PM by Bill Humphries

Bill Humphries @ 95:

I suppose we'll soon see if that principle can be reliably applied to comments within blog posts as well. (Does it depend on the comment in question being indexed by Google Ads?)

Posted December 26, 2007 12:06 AM by Lindra

The LOLdiagnosis link is borked. You need to remove the "v" from in front of the http.

Posted December 26, 2007 12:11 AM by Luthe

Bill Humphries #95: Speaking of He Who Can Only Be Told Of In Political Filks, there's a Team Fortress 2 game video floating around where a player has lodged himself in a blocking area of the game's map geometry who said he'd only let people through if they swore an oath to vote for HWCOBTOIPF; of course, being merely a griefer, he reneged on his promise and started getting people to answer trivia questions with the promise of escape as the reward.

Posted December 26, 2007 12:34 AM by Earl Cooley III

Bill 95

We can get R*n P**l removal ads along raccoon removal, animal removal, Boston Rodent Control, a and humane trap ads listed on the side bar?!

Hmm, how about "extremist politician removal" [although the method used to get rid of the Ceacescus isn't likely to be openly advertised in the USA.... ]

[Note: The US Constitution includes protection of parody... but given how much of the rest of the document's in abrogation at the current time....]

Posted December 26, 2007 12:34 AM by Paula Lieberman

Don't feed captured rodents to your snakes. The odds of the snake getting a parasite are too great.

For raccoons, and oppossums, we have geese to warn of when they are coming after the chickens; at which point a flashlight and suitable means of introducing a swift moving piece of lead to them is the cure.

An air rifle is used on the squirels who go after the fruit.

Posted December 26, 2007 12:37 AM by Terry Karney

Terry Karney @ 100 ...
For raccoons, and oppossums, we have geese to warn of when they are coming after the chickens; at which point a flashlight and suitable means of introducing a swift moving piece of lead to them is the cure.

Being in the city, there's too many neighbours for lead - but there's a fine water pistol near the back door, which works surprisingly well as a short term deterrent.

Posted December 26, 2007 2:44 AM by xeger

Chasing squirrels through
th'insulation foam,
dodging the poo-poo
where the pigeons roam,
watching kitties flee
from my softest pad,
all this is not half the glee
as back when I still had
(my)

Jungle hills, jungle hills,
jungle all around,
oh what fun it was to run
the Tricers to the ground, hey!

Posted December 26, 2007 3:35 AM by Christian Severin

Earl, #98: Novice gamer. He clearly doesn't understand the difference between what your character says and what you say.

Posted December 26, 2007 3:44 AM by Lee

Lee #103: I don't know of any griefers who actually roleplay except as a cover story to rationalize their bad behavior. "It's just a game" irritates the heck out of me, too; online gamers who uses that as an excuse for bad behavior are destined to hold a cherished place on my /ignore lists.

Posted December 26, 2007 5:55 AM by Earl Cooley III

Paula Lieberman @ 94

Most domestic ducks are mallard-descended (Anas platyrynchos domesticus). However, Muscovy ducks are diferent, being descended from wild Muscovy ducks Cairina moschata.

Posted December 26, 2007 7:30 AM by dcb

Vicki @ 89... Wasn't there, a long time ago, a videogame called Mortal Wombat?

Posted December 26, 2007 7:31 AM by Serge

Paula Lieberman @ 93... Would you buy a car from a Feinman, no matter how fine, without taking it for a few spins around Schrödinger's Box?

Posted December 26, 2007 7:34 AM by Serge

Paula Lieberman @ 74

That info. from Massachusetts re. moving of animals is very sound advice. I could tell you lots about how movements of raccoons spread raccoon rabies variant so that it's now found all over the East Coast states instead of just down in the south-east. Also how people were found trapping raccoons on their properties and releasing them on the far side of a vaccine belt which was aiming to stop the disease spreading...

Posted December 26, 2007 7:39 AM by dcb

#58 ::: bill wringe

Aren't chickens dinosaurs? Or close enough?

If so, I shudder to think about what could be done with selective breeding.

Posted December 26, 2007 8:30 AM by Nancy Lebovitz

#104 ::: Earl Cooley III

Lee #103: I don't know of any griefers who actually roleplay except as a cover story to rationalize their bad behavior. "It's just a game" irritates the heck out of me, too; online gamers who uses that as an excuse for bad behavior are destined to hold a cherished place on my /ignore lists.

More generally, there are people, ranging from trolls to terrorists [1], who think of civilization as something to parasitize. I wonder if folks would find it easier to ignore trolls if the trolls were called "attention leeches". Trolls don't just want to be insulting, they want to break up real conversation.

The problem with trolls isn't that they want attention-- if we didn't want attention we wouldn't be here-- it's that they don't repay attention with anything valuable.

And I treasure Jet Li's Fearless because the big martial arts fight in the restaurant is consequential (the restaurant owner is the lead martial artist's best friend and the fight was totally unnecessary) instead of just being a chance to see things get smashed.

Posted December 26, 2007 8:45 AM by Nancy Lebovitz

Alas, a Siberian tiger did get out last night at the San Francisco zoo, and killed someone. (I'm wondering if the one she killed managed to let her out, since he was a young man at the reckless age. If my guess is wrong, apologies to his family.) A sad story all around.

Posted December 26, 2007 9:24 AM by Faren Miller

I just wanted to thank all the denizens of Making Light who gave me suggestions for SF/F books for my hubby. Thanks to you, his spot under the tree wasn't bare!

Posted December 26, 2007 10:41 AM by Jackie L.

In about 20 minutes, BBC Radio 4 is broadcasting a programme about puns.

Posted December 26, 2007 11:12 AM by Dave Bell

Does this sound like the earliest extant version of a go-bag? (From the Natufian culture, discovered in present-day Jordan at Wadi Hammeh.)

Thanks to Unca Jim & all the others on Making Light for all they've done through this year.

Posted December 26, 2007 11:53 AM by Epacris

OK now...

Chasing the latest comment to Jim's Internet Time Wasters II led me to Psychotherapy for Plush Toys. That site has had me bawling several times. (It probably doesn't help that today is the anniversary of my father's death.) On the other hand, I've managed to cure two of them so far....

Posted December 26, 2007 11:58 AM by David Harmon

Re. Faren Miller's link in 111, I now have my 2008 New Years resolution: In 2008 I will forego reading comment threads in online news coverage of all sorts.

Posted December 26, 2007 12:27 PM by JESR

Is it my imagination or did Bill O'Really say little about our side's War on Christmas this year? If he has declared victory, how come there was no Christmas-related programming on TV last night? The closest to the Season that I caught was a 1957 TV broadcast of Rodgers and Hammerstein's Cinderellah, with a 22-year-old Julie Andrews as you-know-who.

Posted December 26, 2007 1:32 PM by Serge

Serge #117: Christmas Day my sister-in-law wanted to watch Christmas cartoons because they were some of her earliest introductions to the English language (even before she started learning it in school) and have fond associations, but there was nothing to be found, anywhere.

Speaking of her, this amused me: her name is Ji-Yeon Park, but that's an awful transliteration--the first name is confusing (chee-yun would be closer, but not perfect) and the last name is entirely misleading. She's considering changing the last name to Bach, because the way Americans pronounce it is pretty close to how you're supposed to say Park, and also because she's a big fan of J.S. (as all sensible humans are). The upshot of all this is that the day before yesterday my brother realized that he could start calling her Ji-Yeon Sebastian Bach.

Hilarity ensues, especially if you can muddle through that labyrinthine setup. Oh, how I love those complicated multi-lingual spelling/pronunciation name puns!

Posted December 26, 2007 2:26 PM by ethan

Consider the grass,
Not a thing, but a mass
Made of little green pieces
Of nephews and nieces
Too little to read the sign
"Keep off the grass."

Posted December 26, 2007 2:56 PM by Jon

ethan @ 118... how I love those complicated multi-lingual spelling/pronunciation name puns!

Take it Bach, and PDQ, if you please.

Posted December 26, 2007 3:27 PM by Serge

"One does not keep a dinosaur in the attic for comfort."

Whose comfort are we talking about? Yours or the dinosaur's?

Posted December 26, 2007 3:41 PM by Erik Nelson

Erik @121:
Whose comfort are we talking about? Yours or the dinosaur's?

Dinosaurs, like small children, share their discomfort freely. Its lack of comfort would be mine by the time it had put its feet through my ceilings and its tail through my roof.

Posted December 26, 2007 4:26 PM by abi

"There was no possibility of catching a hadrosaur that day..."

Jane, a young Velociraptor mongoliensis, small and plain in appearance, shy, but intelligent, is employed as a governess and guard animal by Mr Rochester. She loves him, and the two become engaged, but she is horrified to discover - on her wedding day itself - that the first Mrs Rochester, a Protoceratops andrewsi, is not in fact dead, but is still living, insane, in the attic, being fed on cycad leaves smuggled there by the elderly housekeeper, a dromaeosaurid called Grace Poole.
Rochester begs Jane to come with him to France, where they will live as husband and wife despite not being legally married, but Jane refuses, and races home to disembowel the first Mrs Rochester with one kick of her powerful hind leg.

Posted December 26, 2007 5:30 PM by ajay

It's interesting that almost everyone assumes that the dinosaurs are a> inconveniently large and b> alive. I keep my dinosaurs, which are plush toys of moderate size, in a cloth bin in the bedroom when not actually cuddling them - doesn't everybody?

Posted December 26, 2007 6:01 PM by Roz Kaveney

Nancy Lebovitz at #110 writes:

> I wonder if folks would find it easier to ignore trolls if the trolls were called "attention leeches". Trolls don't just want to be insulting, they want to break up real conversation.

The term which seems most accurate and sounds best to me is "energy creature" - as in "don't feed the energy creature". Its only flaw is that it might be a bit too geeky to fall into general use. I think it captures the situation perfectly though.

For some years I used not to believe that there really were people who wanted *any* sort of attention - including abuse and contempt. Reality wore me down in the end though.

Posted December 26, 2007 6:08 PM by Steve Taylor

David Harmon @ 115: I managed to cure one...but the second is completely catatonic after "treatment," another might as well be, one wouldn't hang around long enough for the initial exam, and the last simply won't "load" into the examining room in the first place...

Depressing, even if they are only animated plush toys.

Posted December 26, 2007 6:45 PM by Syd

I read the sequal to "The high house" almost in one sitting a couple of years ago. I rather enjoyed it, but found it incredibly reactionary, which began to grate after a while.

Posted December 26, 2007 7:14 PM by guthrie

David @ 115: I managed to work successfully with the hippo, the terrapin, and the snake, but never could get the delusional sheep or the croc-in-the-box to load. Lilo took me two attempts--the first failed miserably (or did it?).

Nice way to spend some time on a lousy, dreary afternoon!

Posted December 26, 2007 7:32 PM by LMB MacAlister

Note to self: It is not while being cautious and aware that one becomes the path to ground, but in that brief moment of brainless inattention.

Fortunately, not an issue[0], but definitely a reminder to pay complete attention, and -think- before doing.

[0] Well, okay - for very long, at any rate.

Posted December 26, 2007 7:41 PM by xeger

various, on removing animals: aside from the biological consequences described in Paula's quote, it occurs to me that taking a live-trapped animal could be looked on like dumping your garbage in somebody else's town. IIRC, removal of (e.g.) problem bears from Yellowstone involves moving them a \long/ way -- which would run even more risk of the consequences Paula quotes.

Posted December 26, 2007 7:52 PM by CHip

#126, #128: I've now cured all of them, so I'll give some hints. Most of them I'll rot13, but a couple or three deserve to be in clear:

(0) Note that the doctor's notes give hints too, and those change over the course of treatment! So do the dreams and many of the other "cutscenes".

(1) There's an electroshock set under the head of the bed, which you'll occasionally need for the most resistant patients. Often the minimum-length shock isn't enough, but you still need a light hand on that button. On the other hand, "killing" the patient (and I think this is the only way to do that) amounts to a reset -- you just start over on that patient. (Hey, they are stuffed animals!)

(2) Sometimes waiting is a necessary part of the treatment -- watch what the critters do if you let them alone for a minute or two. Also, sometimes you need to let a patient go back to the lounge, while you work on somebody else for a while.

3) V qvq arrq gb hfr gur ryrpgebfubpx n pbhcyr bs gvzrf (vg'f uvqqra haqre gur urnq bs gur orq), abgnoyl gb trg gur ghegyr bhg bs uvf furyy naq gb trg gur furrc vagb n erfcbafvir (gerngnoyr) pbaqvgvba. (Sbe gur ynggre, V unq gb yrg uvz bhg gb gur ybhatr gb erpbire.)

4) Gur pebp arrqf n gnyx-gurencl frffvba (juvpu nyfb yrgf uvz qvgpu gur obk) orsber ur'yy chg hc jvgu n culfvpny rknz. Zhfvp vf irel vzcbegnag gb uvz -- yrg uvz cynl gjb be guerr ebhaqf orgjrra gur zber pbasebagngvbany gerngzragf, naq lbh'yy arrq gb ercynpr uvf syhgr nsgre qernz gurencl.

I have to say, the effort and creativity that went into that game are amazing! That said, there were a fair number of points where the "obvious" response was mysteriously disabled just when I wanted to use it -- I had to figure out what else to do first before I could get back to "strategy".

Posted December 26, 2007 9:44 PM by David Harmon

Xeger @#129: It is not while being cautious and aware that one becomes the path to ground, but in that brief moment of brainless inattention.

Now those are words to live by!

Posted December 26, 2007 10:04 PM by David Harmon

David @ 131: I couldn't agree more about both the quasi-professional thought and the graphic work that went into this little diversion. Having worked in the counseling profession, I fully expected Herr Doktor's notes to change, just as progress notes always do. But at the same time, I was impressed that they did, and that they offer as much help as they do. Any psychologist or counselor worth his copy of the DSM knows of the value of the observations from the entire therapeutic team, so it didn't seem odd to consult the notes anytime I felt the need.

V qvqa'g unir gb qb RPG (fubpx) jvgu gur furrc, ohg qeht gurencl jnf _irel_ rssrpgvir ng bar cbvag. Naq V tbg fhpu n xvpx bhg bs gur Qe'f abgrf znxvat fb zhpu ersrerapr gb ure cnegvphyne arrqf nf n furrc.

Ba gur bgure unaq, V qvq unir gb tvir Yvyb n OVT qbfr bs RPG, nyzbfg gb gur cbvag bs selvat uvz. Gur Ovt Ahefr onaqntrq uvf urnq, naq ur pyhzcrq bhg bs gur gurencl nern gb gur "Cngvrag Ybhatr" (va Nzrevpn, vg'f pnyyrq gur Qnlebbz), fng gurer juvyr ur er-pbzobohyngrq uvzfrys, naq gura jnf ernql sbe zber jbex.

Ur, naq ng bar cbvag, gur greencva, unq gb tb guebhtu ercrgvgvir plpyrf bs gur fnzr gerngzrag, ohg pbagvahrq gb fubj vzcebirzrag guebhtu rnpu, nf fubja va gurve qernz gurencl erfcbafrf.

Gur greencva vf na rkpryyrag rknzcyr bs n onfvp cevapvcyr va gurencl--gur inyhr bs gvzr. Cnegvphyneyl jura n cngvrag svanyyl npprcgf n terng ybff gung ur/fur unf orra nibvqvat, gur erfhyg vf gur abezny tevrivat ernpgvba, naq gur bayl zrqvpvar sbe gung vf gvzr.

Lilo is still my favorite; it was surprising to see him in a cameo role during the sheep's therapy.

Posted December 26, 2007 10:14 PM by LMB MacAlister

ajay @ 123... How about Jane Eyrecheopteryx?

Posted December 26, 2007 10:15 PM by Serge

Xeger @ 129: Those are concerning words, my friend! NO frickin' 'coon is worth your participation in a "frying game." Although your description of their desperate paws on you new roof makes me wonder if you have 'coons, or Night-gaunts.

Posted December 26, 2007 10:18 PM by LMB MacAlister

Roz Kaveney @ #124: I arrange the plush dinosaurs at the toy store so they are eating and rampaging the other creatures.

The dinosaur is in the attic because she's happy there. I don't think my comfort is on her mind at all. The cats do like to go and visit and chat. I think they all snack on voles together.

Posted December 26, 2007 11:19 PM by Tania

Since we're talking about dinosaurs in the house here, I'll throw in a YASID. Or an author ID. There's three (I think) stories in Asimov's or F&SF about miniaturized limited-intelligence dinos who end up in sort of a group home. Who wrote these?

Posted December 26, 2007 11:46 PM by Marilee

Since this is an open thread, I'll ask something that I've intended to bring up for awhile, particularly among the other assorted gastronomes and cooks who frequent this site. It has nothing to do with dinosaurs in the attic, but a good bit to do with the ones in the cupboards.

About 18 months ago, I inherited the set of very good porcelain cookware that my sister and I gave my mother for Christmas 1973. It's completely intact--all 14 pieces. My mother was one of those eat-off-the-floor cleanliness people, and believed in having nice stuff and taking care of it, so it was very well cared for. However, over the years, it's become terribly stained inside. And there lies the problem.

My mother used to live in Ponca City, Oklahoma, also known as Conoco City (the company was founded there, and Conoco-Phillips is still by far the largest employer). Those few of you who live/have lived in the Oil Patch know how sorry the water quality is. I found that simply soaking the cooking surface of each pot, sauce pan, and skillet in vinegar-water allowed me to scour considerable amounts of gyp build-up off those surfaces, along with the stains it had kept. But still, except for one small skillet that apparently didn't see much use, the off-color tinges and burned spots on the other stuff remains.

Anyone of you have experience on really cleaning badly-and-historically-stained porcelain?

Posted December 26, 2007 11:56 PM by LMB MacAlister

This is interesting: The US Senate held an 11 second long session to prevent Presidential recess appointments, and they're going to keep the process going during the holiday break.

Posted December 26, 2007 11:57 PM by Earl Cooley III

LMB MacAlister @ 135 ...
Xeger @ 129: Those are concerning words, my friend! NO frickin' 'coon is worth your participation in a "frying game."

Er - to clarify, I've been trying to remedy some of my tool storage problems by adding plywood to the basement wall.

Since the previous denizen had the brilliant idea o