<?xml version="1.0" encoding="utf-8"?>
<rss version="2.0" xmlns:content="http://purl.org/rss/1.0/modules/content/">
   <channel>
      <title>Making Light :: The Associated Press wants to charge you $12.50 to quote five words from them :: comments</title>
      <link>http://nielsenhayden.com/makinglight/archives/010341.html#comments </link>
      <description>Language, fraud, folly, truth, history, and knitting. Et cetera.</description>
      <language>en</language>
      <lastBuildDate>Mon, 16 Jun 2008 16:07:20 -0500</lastBuildDate>
      <generator>http://www.sixapart.com/movabletype/?v=4.34-en</generator>
      
      <item>
      <title>The Associated Press wants to charge you $12.50 to quote five words from them</title>
      <description>The Associated Press, having already announced its intention to harass bloggers who publish snippets as short as 39 words from...</description>
      <content:encoded>The Associated Press, having already announced its intention to harass bloggers who publish snippets as short as 39 words from...</content:encoded>
      <link>http://nielsenhayden.com/makinglight/archives/010341.html</link>
      </item>

      
      <item>
         <title>The Associated Press wants to charge you $12.50 to quote five words from them -- comment #1 from P J Evans</title>
         <description>comment from P J Evans on 16.Jun.08</description>
         <content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I guess they've given up on the generally-accepted idea of 'fair use'. (I see court cases in their future.)</p>]]>
	 &lt;p&gt;Posted June 16, 2008  4:07 PM by P J Evans&lt;/p&gt;</content:encoded>
         <link>http://nielsenhayden.com/makinglight/archives/010341.html#274551</link>
         <guid isPermaLink="true">http://nielsenhayden.com/makinglight/archives/010341.html#274551</guid>
         <pubDate>Mon, 16 Jun 2008 16:07:20 -0500</pubDate>
      </item>
      
      <item>
         <title>The Associated Press wants to charge you $12.50 to quote five words from them -- comment #2 from Paula Lieberman</title>
         <description>comment from Paula Lieberman on 16.Jun.08</description>
         <content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I hereby declare that any entity--person, persons, or organization--which has a policy so limiting and restrictive and greedy as the AP regarding extermination of "fair use," has no permission to quote me in any way shape or form without due remuneration at the levels they require--that is, they must pay ME for any use of anything I say or write, at the same rates that they demand from others for material they claim as legal intellectual property.</p>

<p>This extends to extracting ANYTHING for literature searches and googling....</p>

<p>Oh, it's not enforcible? I expect them to pay me the same as they expect other people to pay them, even for research and inadvertent extraction of material in e.g. Google searches. </p>]]>
	 &lt;p&gt;Posted June 16, 2008  4:24 PM by Paula Lieberman&lt;/p&gt;</content:encoded>
         <link>http://nielsenhayden.com/makinglight/archives/010341.html#274557</link>
         <guid isPermaLink="true">http://nielsenhayden.com/makinglight/archives/010341.html#274557</guid>
         <pubDate>Mon, 16 Jun 2008 16:24:23 -0500</pubDate>
      </item>
      
      <item>
         <title>The Associated Press wants to charge you $12.50 to quote five words from them -- comment #3 from Patrick Nielsen Hayden</title>
         <description>comment from Patrick Nielsen Hayden on 16.Jun.08</description>
         <content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>"Fair use" is whatever you can get a court to agree is "fair use".  The point of "fair use" is that it's not a formula.  So, conceivably, the AP could get a court to agree to penalize someone for quoting five words.</p>

<p>The point isn't "fair use," the point is that the AP, like all the other big-media crusaders for their own privilege, is trying to radically change what we do and don't consider normal, commonsensical practice.</p>]]>
	 &lt;p&gt;Posted June 16, 2008  4:24 PM by Patrick Nielsen Hayden&lt;/p&gt;</content:encoded>
         <link>http://nielsenhayden.com/makinglight/archives/010341.html#274558</link>
         <guid isPermaLink="true">http://nielsenhayden.com/makinglight/archives/010341.html#274558</guid>
         <pubDate>Mon, 16 Jun 2008 16:24:42 -0500</pubDate>
      </item>
      
      <item>
         <title>The Associated Press wants to charge you $12.50 to quote five words from them -- comment #4 from Fragano Ledgister</title>
         <description>comment from Fragano Ledgister on 16.Jun.08</description>
         <content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Welcome to Absurdistan.</p>]]>
	 &lt;p&gt;Posted June 16, 2008  4:26 PM by Fragano Ledgister&lt;/p&gt;</content:encoded>
         <link>http://nielsenhayden.com/makinglight/archives/010341.html#274559</link>
         <guid isPermaLink="true">http://nielsenhayden.com/makinglight/archives/010341.html#274559</guid>
         <pubDate>Mon, 16 Jun 2008 16:26:48 -0500</pubDate>
      </item>
      
      <item>
         <title>The Associated Press wants to charge you $12.50 to quote five words from them -- comment #5 from Graydon</title>
         <description>comment from Graydon on 16.Jun.08</description>
         <content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>The US has enough Federalist Society judges that they might win one.</p>

<p>They can certainly make sure it costs more than anyone can pay out of their personal resources, and takes ten years, and look, new legislation.</p>

<p>And, while Patrick is entirely correct about not ending up on top, this sort of thing isn't ever going to end with the current forms of commercial organizations.</p>

<p>It's an emergent property of profit-maximizing corporations to set out to devour the world; the problem can't be fixed while such corporations continue to exist.  (Said corporations put a lot of effort into obscuring this simple solution.)</p>

<p>Reliable profit (and some hope of humane behaviour) or maximal profit (and rendering the inconvenient for lard); it ought to be a simple, obvious choice.</p>]]>
	 &lt;p&gt;Posted June 16, 2008  4:27 PM by Graydon&lt;/p&gt;</content:encoded>
         <link>http://nielsenhayden.com/makinglight/archives/010341.html#274560</link>
         <guid isPermaLink="true">http://nielsenhayden.com/makinglight/archives/010341.html#274560</guid>
         <pubDate>Mon, 16 Jun 2008 16:27:32 -0500</pubDate>
      </item>
      
      <item>
         <title>The Associated Press wants to charge you $12.50 to quote five words from them -- comment #6 from Caroline</title>
         <description>comment from Caroline on 16.Jun.08</description>
         <content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Wow.</p>

<p>I am trying to decide whether cancelling my Sunday paper would be an effective protest, or whether it would just hurt my local paper and not hurt the AP at all.</p>]]>
	 &lt;p&gt;Posted June 16, 2008  4:28 PM by Caroline&lt;/p&gt;</content:encoded>
         <link>http://nielsenhayden.com/makinglight/archives/010341.html#274561</link>
         <guid isPermaLink="true">http://nielsenhayden.com/makinglight/archives/010341.html#274561</guid>
         <pubDate>Mon, 16 Jun 2008 16:28:25 -0500</pubDate>
      </item>
      
      <item>
         <title>The Associated Press wants to charge you $12.50 to quote five words from them -- comment #7 from Jeremy Preacher</title>
         <description>comment from Jeremy Preacher on 16.Jun.08</description>
         <content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>It would be amusing if everyone that an AP stringer tried to interview required them to pay a per-word fee for the privilege...</p>]]>
	 &lt;p&gt;Posted June 16, 2008  4:31 PM by Jeremy Preacher&lt;/p&gt;</content:encoded>
         <link>http://nielsenhayden.com/makinglight/archives/010341.html#274564</link>
         <guid isPermaLink="true">http://nielsenhayden.com/makinglight/archives/010341.html#274564</guid>
         <pubDate>Mon, 16 Jun 2008 16:31:57 -0500</pubDate>
      </item>
      
      <item>
         <title>The Associated Press wants to charge you $12.50 to quote five words from them -- comment #8 from Robert Walker</title>
         <description>comment from Robert Walker on 16.Jun.08</description>
         <content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>>>>They are would-be aristocrats who fully intend to return us to a society of orders and classes, and they’re using so-called “intellectual property” law as a tool with which to do it.</p>

<p>True. But, this is just one in a long line of steps already taken. In the US, it is now absolutely "legal" to arrest someone without charges, and hold them indefinitely. You can be labeled a "terrorist" for saying anything that those in charge deem "threatening." To what? Their superiority and control over a population that (in their view) basically exists to feed the coffers. And this is legal now in this country. Revolutions have been started for less than this throughout history. Why isn't that happening here? Because the propaganda system in this society, promulgated under the guise of "education," "media," and so on has been so incredibly effective, that there has, up till now, been no need for "communist"-type tactics. (Read Chomsky's early essays for a more in-depth explanation of this.)</p>

<p>In the mid-90s, I went to see Jimmy Carter speak at my college. When asked what the single biggest problem in our society was, his answer was not race relations, environmental issues, or education. It was: class. Regardless of what you think of him, for an ex-president of the US to say that, well, I think there are a lot of revelations to be discovered here.</p>

<p>The history of human society has been the elite vs. the masses. If you think it has *ever* been any different in this so-called "free" society of ours, well, then, I got a bridge I'd like to sell you.</p>

<p><br />
</p>]]>
	 &lt;p&gt;Posted June 16, 2008  4:37 PM by Robert Walker&lt;/p&gt;</content:encoded>
         <link>http://nielsenhayden.com/makinglight/archives/010341.html#274566</link>
         <guid isPermaLink="true">http://nielsenhayden.com/makinglight/archives/010341.html#274566</guid>
         <pubDate>Mon, 16 Jun 2008 16:37:09 -0500</pubDate>
      </item>
      
      <item>
         <title>The Associated Press wants to charge you $12.50 to quote five words from them -- comment #9 from albatross</title>
         <description>comment from albatross on 16.Jun.08</description>
         <content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>This can only work very well if all news sources do it, right?  If AP hassles people for quoting stories, but Reuters doesn't, then it's pretty easy to see where that ends up. </p>

<p>Of course, the legal hassles are almost independent of the legal rightness or wrongness of the actions.  </p>]]>
	 &lt;p&gt;Posted June 16, 2008  4:37 PM by albatross&lt;/p&gt;</content:encoded>
         <link>http://nielsenhayden.com/makinglight/archives/010341.html#274567</link>
         <guid isPermaLink="true">http://nielsenhayden.com/makinglight/archives/010341.html#274567</guid>
         <pubDate>Mon, 16 Jun 2008 16:37:31 -0500</pubDate>
      </item>
      
      <item>
         <title>The Associated Press wants to charge you $12.50 to quote five words from them -- comment #10 from Paula Lieberman</title>
         <description>comment from Paula Lieberman on 16.Jun.08</description>
         <content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Constitution of the United States of America</p>

<p><b>PUBLIC DOMAIN DOCUMENT</b> (ESAD, AP....)</p>

<p><br />
"Article 1 - The Legislative Branch<br />
"Section 8 - Powers of Congress</p>

<p>"The Congress shall have Power...</p>

<p>"To promote the Progress of Science and useful Arts, by securing for limited Times to Authors and Inventors the exclusive Right to their respective Writings and Discoveries;" </p>

<p>"...."</p>

<p>It does NOT "promote the Progress of Science and use Arts...." for the AP to extort money for quotations of more than four words, NOT does it promote the interest of "We the People of the United States, in Order to form a more perfect Union, establish Justice, insure domestic Tranquility, provide for the common defence, promote the general Welfare, and secure the Blessings of Liberty to ourselves.." for such extortion (or for life plus 70 year copyright, for that matter... and how long do corporate copyrights last for under the Berne convention intellectual property-never-to-go-public-domain aegis?) </p>

<p>For that matter, since when is the AP the author, as opposed to the person who actually wrote the material, or spoke it, that the AP is distributing?! <br />
</p>]]>
	 &lt;p&gt;Posted June 16, 2008  4:38 PM by Paula Lieberman&lt;/p&gt;</content:encoded>
         <link>http://nielsenhayden.com/makinglight/archives/010341.html#274569</link>
         <guid isPermaLink="true">http://nielsenhayden.com/makinglight/archives/010341.html#274569</guid>
         <pubDate>Mon, 16 Jun 2008 16:38:16 -0500</pubDate>
      </item>
      
      <item>
         <title>The Associated Press wants to charge you $12.50 to quote five words from them -- comment #11 from matt</title>
         <description>comment from matt on 16.Jun.08</description>
         <content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>For $12.50, do I get to pick my five words?</p>]]>
	 &lt;p&gt;Posted June 16, 2008  4:44 PM by matt&lt;/p&gt;</content:encoded>
         <link>http://nielsenhayden.com/makinglight/archives/010341.html#274572</link>
         <guid isPermaLink="true">http://nielsenhayden.com/makinglight/archives/010341.html#274572</guid>
         <pubDate>Mon, 16 Jun 2008 16:44:41 -0500</pubDate>
      </item>
      
      <item>
         <title>The Associated Press wants to charge you $12.50 to quote five words from them -- comment #12 from Huey</title>
         <description>comment from Huey on 16.Jun.08</description>
         <content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Let me be the first to encourage you to blow up the moon. Stupid moon! It totally has it comin'. It knew what it was gettin' into! It's practically askin' for it! </p>]]>
	 &lt;p&gt;Posted June 16, 2008  4:47 PM by Huey&lt;/p&gt;</content:encoded>
         <link>http://nielsenhayden.com/makinglight/archives/010341.html#274575</link>
         <guid isPermaLink="true">http://nielsenhayden.com/makinglight/archives/010341.html#274575</guid>
         <pubDate>Mon, 16 Jun 2008 16:47:57 -0500</pubDate>
      </item>
      
      <item>
         <title>The Associated Press wants to charge you $12.50 to quote five words from them -- comment #13 from Brooks Moses</title>
         <description>comment from Brooks Moses on 16.Jun.08</description>
         <content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Paula @10: Since the idea of "work for hire" came about, I'm guessing.</p>

<p>I think it's at least a reasonable position to consider "author" to mean "the entity responsible for the creation of the copyrighted work", and in the case of work for hire to consider the hiring organization to be the entity responsible, even if it's not the position one would entirely agree with.</p>]]>
	 &lt;p&gt;Posted June 16, 2008  4:49 PM by Brooks Moses&lt;/p&gt;</content:encoded>
         <link>http://nielsenhayden.com/makinglight/archives/010341.html#274577</link>
         <guid isPermaLink="true">http://nielsenhayden.com/makinglight/archives/010341.html#274577</guid>
         <pubDate>Mon, 16 Jun 2008 16:49:02 -0500</pubDate>
      </item>
      
      <item>
         <title>The Associated Press wants to charge you $12.50 to quote five words from them -- comment #14 from Jason B</title>
         <description>comment from Jason B on 16.Jun.08</description>
         <content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I generally operate under the phrase "People suck." Corporations suck more, because they are just groups of people. Therefore, "Group-people suck."</p>

<p>I wish someone would disabuse me of this.</p>]]>
	 &lt;p&gt;Posted June 16, 2008  5:10 PM by Jason B&lt;/p&gt;</content:encoded>
         <link>http://nielsenhayden.com/makinglight/archives/010341.html#274583</link>
         <guid isPermaLink="true">http://nielsenhayden.com/makinglight/archives/010341.html#274583</guid>
         <pubDate>Mon, 16 Jun 2008 17:10:28 -0500</pubDate>
      </item>
      
      <item>
         <title>The Associated Press wants to charge you $12.50 to quote five words from them -- comment #15 from Lance Weber</title>
         <description>comment from Lance Weber on 16.Jun.08</description>
         <content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Wanna gag more? The webform is run by iCopyright, check out their "fair and balanced" article on <a href="http://info.icopyright.com/honorcopyright.asp" rel="nofollow"> Please Honor Copyright!</a> Chock full of all the truthiness on copyright you can handle...</p>

<p>I'd be interested in seeing if the EFF wants to take a swing at AP. I gratefully support them because they're actually willing to dive into the tarpits and wrestle with the dinosaurs whose death throes occasionally threaten us chimps as we sit in the nearby trees pointing, shrieking and  throwing feces at their sinking, bloated soon-to-be corpses.<br />
</p>]]>
	 &lt;p&gt;Posted June 16, 2008  5:10 PM by Lance Weber&lt;/p&gt;</content:encoded>
         <link>http://nielsenhayden.com/makinglight/archives/010341.html#274584</link>
         <guid isPermaLink="true">http://nielsenhayden.com/makinglight/archives/010341.html#274584</guid>
         <pubDate>Mon, 16 Jun 2008 17:10:49 -0500</pubDate>
      </item>
      
      <item>
         <title>The Associated Press wants to charge you $12.50 to quote five words from them -- comment #16 from Debbie</title>
         <description>comment from Debbie on 16.Jun.08</description>
         <content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I don't think the underlying legal issue is "fair use," at least not in the quantitative sense. According to the excellent <a href="http://fairuse.stanford.edu/Copyright_and_Fair_Use_Overview/chapter0/0-b.html#3" rel="nofollow">Stanford University Press copyright site</a>, "Criticism, comment, news reporting, research, scholarship and non-profit educational uses are most likely to be judged fair uses." My professional understanding is that this is specifically to allow analysis and discussion.</p>

<p>Of course, it's 2008, the courts are populated by far too many Bushie idiots, and who knows. But there are some good grounds on which to challenge this absurdity.  </p>]]>
	 &lt;p&gt;Posted June 16, 2008  5:24 PM by Debbie&lt;/p&gt;</content:encoded>
         <link>http://nielsenhayden.com/makinglight/archives/010341.html#274589</link>
         <guid isPermaLink="true">http://nielsenhayden.com/makinglight/archives/010341.html#274589</guid>
         <pubDate>Mon, 16 Jun 2008 17:24:54 -0500</pubDate>
      </item>
      
      <item>
         <title>The Associated Press wants to charge you $12.50 to quote five words from them -- comment #17 from Ginger</title>
         <description>comment from Ginger on 16.Jun.08</description>
         <content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I guess that explains why AP news has disappeared from the NY Times online. There used to be a news "ticker" column with a page that had AP and a page that had Reuters -- now they have only Reuters on their website. I wondered about that. </p>]]>
	 &lt;p&gt;Posted June 16, 2008  5:32 PM by Ginger&lt;/p&gt;</content:encoded>
         <link>http://nielsenhayden.com/makinglight/archives/010341.html#274591</link>
         <guid isPermaLink="true">http://nielsenhayden.com/makinglight/archives/010341.html#274591</guid>
         <pubDate>Mon, 16 Jun 2008 17:32:30 -0500</pubDate>
      </item>
      
      <item>
         <title>The Associated Press wants to charge you $12.50 to quote five words from them -- comment #18 from Lizzy L</title>
         <description>comment from Lizzy L on 16.Jun.08</description>
         <content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>In a multi-media world, this strikes me as batshit insane. Competition is not dead (yet): AP is only one news organization. What happens if everyone simply says No, thank you? No, we won't fill out your stupid form. No, we won't give you money. No, go ahead and sue us, we're going to make use of your words anyway. What's the AP going to do, stop reporting, stop publishing, stop being a media company? Bye-bye AP... </p>

<p>What am I missing? <br />
</p>]]>
	 &lt;p&gt;Posted June 16, 2008  5:41 PM by Lizzy L&lt;/p&gt;</content:encoded>
         <link>http://nielsenhayden.com/makinglight/archives/010341.html#274594</link>
         <guid isPermaLink="true">http://nielsenhayden.com/makinglight/archives/010341.html#274594</guid>
         <pubDate>Mon, 16 Jun 2008 17:41:18 -0500</pubDate>
      </item>
      
      <item>
         <title>The Associated Press wants to charge you $12.50 to quote five words from them -- comment #19 from P J Evans</title>
         <description>comment from P J Evans on 16.Jun.08</description>
         <content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>#17<br />
Also what may have happened to the 'AP wire' section on the LA Times site. I noticed it was gone, but didn't know what was going on behind the scenes.</p>]]>
	 &lt;p&gt;Posted June 16, 2008  5:47 PM by P J Evans&lt;/p&gt;</content:encoded>
         <link>http://nielsenhayden.com/makinglight/archives/010341.html#274598</link>
         <guid isPermaLink="true">http://nielsenhayden.com/makinglight/archives/010341.html#274598</guid>
         <pubDate>Mon, 16 Jun 2008 17:47:04 -0500</pubDate>
      </item>
      
      <item>
         <title>The Associated Press wants to charge you $12.50 to quote five words from them -- comment #20 from Dave Bell</title>
         <description>comment from Dave Bell on 16.Jun.08</description>
         <content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>IIRC correctly, the usual style of wire-service news reports does mean that a small part of the total word-count can contain all of the story. They make news stories which can easily be edited to fit the space available.</p>

<p>The first paragraph is usually a short summary of the whole.</p>

<p>And, just checking my local paper, as little as 20 words at the beginning can tell you everything.</p>

<p>AP are being abusive, but I can see them having rather more reason to act than some of their critics think.</p>]]>
	 &lt;p&gt;Posted June 16, 2008  5:53 PM by Dave Bell&lt;/p&gt;</content:encoded>
         <link>http://nielsenhayden.com/makinglight/archives/010341.html#274602</link>
         <guid isPermaLink="true">http://nielsenhayden.com/makinglight/archives/010341.html#274602</guid>
         <pubDate>Mon, 16 Jun 2008 17:53:24 -0500</pubDate>
      </item>
      
      <item>
         <title>The Associated Press wants to charge you $12.50 to quote five words from them -- comment #21 from Lee</title>
         <description>comment from Lee on 16.Jun.08</description>
         <content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Ginger, P.J.: I think this is an example of the Law of Unintended Consequences. Now if they'll just follow suit with their hard-copy editions... <br />
</p>]]>
	 &lt;p&gt;Posted June 16, 2008  6:06 PM by Lee&lt;/p&gt;</content:encoded>
         <link>http://nielsenhayden.com/makinglight/archives/010341.html#274604</link>
         <guid isPermaLink="true">http://nielsenhayden.com/makinglight/archives/010341.html#274604</guid>
         <pubDate>Mon, 16 Jun 2008 18:06:45 -0500</pubDate>
      </item>
      
      <item>
         <title>The Associated Press wants to charge you $12.50 to quote five words from them -- comment #22 from morgue</title>
         <description>comment from morgue on 16.Jun.08</description>
         <content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Dave @20:<br />
Surely the value in AP reports is the quantity of them delivered in the service, not the individual reports themselves?</p>

<p>I'm genuinely uncertain of the wire service business model. Do papers (etc.) pay a flat fee for usage of whatever comes off the wire, or do they pay by story, or what?</p>

<p>This gambit is ridiculous on its face. Surely they know that no-one's going to pony up money via a web form to quote something in their blogs? And surely they know that blog excerpts do not represent lost revenue for them? So is their entire goal to stop something that isn't hurting them, even though it doesn't gain them anything either?</p>

<p>It all seems weird to me, as well as obnoxious.</p>

<p><br />
</p>]]>
	 &lt;p&gt;Posted June 16, 2008  6:12 PM by morgue&lt;/p&gt;</content:encoded>
         <link>http://nielsenhayden.com/makinglight/archives/010341.html#274606</link>
         <guid isPermaLink="true">http://nielsenhayden.com/makinglight/archives/010341.html#274606</guid>
         <pubDate>Mon, 16 Jun 2008 18:12:04 -0500</pubDate>
      </item>
      
      <item>
         <title>The Associated Press wants to charge you $12.50 to quote five words from them -- comment #23 from Michael Martin</title>
         <description>comment from Michael Martin on 16.Jun.08</description>
         <content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I suspect if you put up a website demanding money to not blow up the moon, and made it sufficiently entertainingly a blend of supervillainy and dot-com sales pitch, you'd get enough donations to pay for the costs of artwork and writing.</p>]]>
	 &lt;p&gt;Posted June 16, 2008  6:12 PM by Michael Martin&lt;/p&gt;</content:encoded>
         <link>http://nielsenhayden.com/makinglight/archives/010341.html#274607</link>
         <guid isPermaLink="true">http://nielsenhayden.com/makinglight/archives/010341.html#274607</guid>
         <pubDate>Mon, 16 Jun 2008 18:12:05 -0500</pubDate>
      </item>
      
      <item>
         <title>The Associated Press wants to charge you $12.50 to quote five words from them -- comment #24 from mjfgates</title>
         <description>comment from mjfgates on 16.Jun.08</description>
         <content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>You'd have to resell the "FOOLS! I will DESTROY you ALL! (Ask me how!)" shirts from girlgenius.com . </p>]]>
	 &lt;p&gt;Posted June 16, 2008  6:18 PM by mjfgates&lt;/p&gt;</content:encoded>
         <link>http://nielsenhayden.com/makinglight/archives/010341.html#274610</link>
         <guid isPermaLink="true">http://nielsenhayden.com/makinglight/archives/010341.html#274610</guid>
         <pubDate>Mon, 16 Jun 2008 18:18:29 -0500</pubDate>
      </item>
      
      <item>
         <title>The Associated Press wants to charge you $12.50 to quote five words from them -- comment #25 from Neil Willcox</title>
         <description>comment from Neil Willcox on 16.Jun.08</description>
         <content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Michael Martin @23 - There are probably enough lunatics who would pay up.</p>]]>
	 &lt;p&gt;Posted June 16, 2008  6:25 PM by Neil Willcox&lt;/p&gt;</content:encoded>
         <link>http://nielsenhayden.com/makinglight/archives/010341.html#274611</link>
         <guid isPermaLink="true">http://nielsenhayden.com/makinglight/archives/010341.html#274611</guid>
         <pubDate>Mon, 16 Jun 2008 18:25:44 -0500</pubDate>
      </item>
      
      <item>
         <title>The Associated Press wants to charge you $12.50 to quote five words from them -- comment #26 from Mike B</title>
         <description>comment from Mike B on 16.Jun.08</description>
         <content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Michael at #23: The <em>Weekly World News</em> used to periodically run an article entitled <em>Scientists Plan to Blow Up the Moon</em>. I think they actually quoted the late Alexander Abian, who I will always remember fondly as the first crackpot I ever identified on the Internet, back in the days when the Internet consisted of nothing but email and <em>sci.physics</em>.</p>

<p>But the <em>Weekly World News</em> apparently just went broke. So maybe the lunar extortion market isn't as lucrative as one might think.</p>

<p>(OMG, the "Alexander Abian" Wikipedia entry provides <em>Wall Street Journal</em> citations (!) for Abian's moon-destruction theory. I guess there's a little <em>Weekly World News</em> in every newspaper.)</p>]]>
	 &lt;p&gt;Posted June 16, 2008  6:30 PM by Mike B&lt;/p&gt;</content:encoded>
         <link>http://nielsenhayden.com/makinglight/archives/010341.html#274614</link>
         <guid isPermaLink="true">http://nielsenhayden.com/makinglight/archives/010341.html#274614</guid>
         <pubDate>Mon, 16 Jun 2008 18:30:27 -0500</pubDate>
      </item>
      
      <item>
         <title>The Associated Press wants to charge you $12.50 to quote five words from them -- comment #27 from Paula Lieberman</title>
         <description>comment from Paula Lieberman on 16.Jun.08</description>
         <content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>The so-called news media have been outsourcing much of their information gathering and analysis to third parties, including AP.  That means that they dropped most of their in-house former ability to collect and analyze current events information, instead sucking in whatever items on the news feeds they were paying for, seemed in their financial and/or editorial interests to publish as "news." </p>

<p>Note how eager (I am being sarcastic, and put his in explicitly to avoid quoting out of context....) the so-called news media has been to report on any actions of Sen Kuicinich that were anything but things they could heap scorn and distaste upon him for, how eager they have been to report miscues other than humorous not-deleterious ones about any not-about-to-be-dumped actors in the Executive Branch of US Government, how they have mostly buried the two murders of "detainees" tortured to death at Baghram Air Base and deaths and the rapings of minors at Abu Ghraib, and other atrocities perpetrated by US citizens who were either member of the US Government or under contract to the US Government. </p>

<p>"Freedom of the press belongs to those with the presses" -- and with the distribution system to spread their publications and the clout to prevent dissemination of "adverse information" and to discredit the "adverse information," discredit opposotion, calumny opposition, threaten opposition, and gag order opposition.</p>]]>
	 &lt;p&gt;Posted June 16, 2008  6:32 PM by Paula Lieberman&lt;/p&gt;</content:encoded>
         <link>http://nielsenhayden.com/makinglight/archives/010341.html#274615</link>
         <guid isPermaLink="true">http://nielsenhayden.com/makinglight/archives/010341.html#274615</guid>
         <pubDate>Mon, 16 Jun 2008 18:32:56 -0500</pubDate>
      </item>
      
      <item>
         <title>The Associated Press wants to charge you $12.50 to quote five words from them -- comment #28 from Paula Lieberman</title>
         <description>comment from Paula Lieberman on 16.Jun.08</description>
         <content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>That should be calumnify, not calumny, above... </p>]]>
	 &lt;p&gt;Posted June 16, 2008  6:34 PM by Paula Lieberman&lt;/p&gt;</content:encoded>
         <link>http://nielsenhayden.com/makinglight/archives/010341.html#274616</link>
         <guid isPermaLink="true">http://nielsenhayden.com/makinglight/archives/010341.html#274616</guid>
         <pubDate>Mon, 16 Jun 2008 18:34:15 -0500</pubDate>
      </item>
      
      <item>
         <title>The Associated Press wants to charge you $12.50 to quote five words from them -- comment #29 from Michael Roberts</title>
         <description>comment from Michael Roberts on 16.Jun.08</description>
         <content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>All you people here in the publishing industry -- how closely does a text have to hew to the original to be considered a quote?  Is it even close to the bounds of reason to consider a paraphrasing algorithm to change a text to avoid the letter of the law?  (Especially given that AP has to find you before they can sue you, I suppose.)</p>

<p>Just a throwaway idea.</p>]]>
	 &lt;p&gt;Posted June 16, 2008  6:39 PM by Michael Roberts&lt;/p&gt;</content:encoded>
         <link>http://nielsenhayden.com/makinglight/archives/010341.html#274620</link>
         <guid isPermaLink="true">http://nielsenhayden.com/makinglight/archives/010341.html#274620</guid>
         <pubDate>Mon, 16 Jun 2008 18:39:12 -0500</pubDate>
      </item>
      
      <item>
         <title>The Associated Press wants to charge you $12.50 to quote five words from them -- comment #30 from CB</title>
         <description>comment from CB on 16.Jun.08</description>
         <content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>"Go screw yourself, AP."</p>

<p>There, that's only four words. You're all welcome to quote me for free. </p>]]>
	 &lt;p&gt;Posted June 16, 2008  6:46 PM by CB&lt;/p&gt;</content:encoded>
         <link>http://nielsenhayden.com/makinglight/archives/010341.html#274621</link>
         <guid isPermaLink="true">http://nielsenhayden.com/makinglight/archives/010341.html#274621</guid>
         <pubDate>Mon, 16 Jun 2008 18:46:25 -0500</pubDate>
      </item>
      
      <item>
         <title>The Associated Press wants to charge you $12.50 to quote five words from them -- comment #31 from Paula Lieberman</title>
         <description>comment from Paula Lieberman on 16.Jun.08</description>
         <content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Michael #22 <br />
The fascists responsible for the AP effrontery have put language in that includes banning ot being rewritten, even!</p>

<p>The codicil at the end of e.g. the AP article at<br />
http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/25188169/</p>

<p>is oxymoronic, claiming the that article "may not be published...." </p>

<p>What's going on, are they channeling Anton Scalia, one of the vilest crackpots in the USA?!</p>]]>
	 &lt;p&gt;Posted June 16, 2008  6:46 PM by Paula Lieberman&lt;/p&gt;</content:encoded>
         <link>http://nielsenhayden.com/makinglight/archives/010341.html#274622</link>
         <guid isPermaLink="true">http://nielsenhayden.com/makinglight/archives/010341.html#274622</guid>
         <pubDate>Mon, 16 Jun 2008 18:46:44 -0500</pubDate>
      </item>
      
      <item>
         <title>The Associated Press wants to charge you $12.50 to quote five words from them -- comment #32 from Joel Polowin</title>
         <description>comment from Joel Polowin on 16.Jun.08</description>
         <content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Mike B.: Archimedes Plutonium is fond of pointing out that he's been published in <i>Scientific American</i> -- though if you check the issue in question, you discover that that "publication" consists of one of the crackpot "Letters to the Editor" items in an April Fools special edition.<br />
</p>]]>
	 &lt;p&gt;Posted June 16, 2008  6:57 PM by Joel Polowin&lt;/p&gt;</content:encoded>
         <link>http://nielsenhayden.com/makinglight/archives/010341.html#274625</link>
         <guid isPermaLink="true">http://nielsenhayden.com/makinglight/archives/010341.html#274625</guid>
         <pubDate>Mon, 16 Jun 2008 18:57:11 -0500</pubDate>
      </item>
      
      <item>
         <title>The Associated Press wants to charge you $12.50 to quote five words from them -- comment #33 from Clifton Royston</title>
         <description>comment from Clifton Royston on 16.Jun.08</description>
         <content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Patrick: Are you taking contributions from both sides here?  How much would it take in donations for you to go ahead and blow up the moon?  </p>

<p>'Coz I'm good for at least fifteen bucks if you make a good show out of it.  </p>]]>
	 &lt;p&gt;Posted June 16, 2008  7:08 PM by Clifton Royston&lt;/p&gt;</content:encoded>
         <link>http://nielsenhayden.com/makinglight/archives/010341.html#274627</link>
         <guid isPermaLink="true">http://nielsenhayden.com/makinglight/archives/010341.html#274627</guid>
         <pubDate>Mon, 16 Jun 2008 19:08:10 -0500</pubDate>
      </item>
      
      <item>
         <title>The Associated Press wants to charge you $12.50 to quote five words from them -- comment #34 from Michael Roberts</title>
         <description>comment from Michael Roberts on 16.Jun.08</description>
         <content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Paula @31 - just because they say that doesn't mean it has the force of law.  What I'm wondering is whether such rewriting could plausibly be used as a defense (probably not) and -- much more saliently -- whether such an algorithm could be considered to be making a valid point.  (Said point being, I suppose, "Fine, you don't want to be quoted, then we won't!".)</p>

<p>I'm tempted to write it just to push their envelope.</p>]]>
	 &lt;p&gt;Posted June 16, 2008  7:11 PM by Michael Roberts&lt;/p&gt;</content:encoded>
         <link>http://nielsenhayden.com/makinglight/archives/010341.html#274629</link>
         <guid isPermaLink="true">http://nielsenhayden.com/makinglight/archives/010341.html#274629</guid>
         <pubDate>Mon, 16 Jun 2008 19:11:22 -0500</pubDate>
      </item>
      
      <item>
         <title>The Associated Press wants to charge you $12.50 to quote five words from them -- comment #35 from albatross</title>
         <description>comment from albatross on 16.Jun.08</description>
         <content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I'm also curious about the AP's business model.  This looks goofy as hell to me, but I assume it must not look so goofy from the perspective of the people doing it....</p>]]>
	 &lt;p&gt;Posted June 16, 2008  7:38 PM by albatross&lt;/p&gt;</content:encoded>
         <link>http://nielsenhayden.com/makinglight/archives/010341.html#274634</link>
         <guid isPermaLink="true">http://nielsenhayden.com/makinglight/archives/010341.html#274634</guid>
         <pubDate>Mon, 16 Jun 2008 19:38:31 -0500</pubDate>
      </item>
      
      <item>
         <title>The Associated Press wants to charge you $12.50 to quote five words from them -- comment #36 from don delny</title>
         <description>comment from don delny on 16.Jun.08</description>
         <content:encoded><![CDATA[<p><i>In this spirit, I will shortly be putting up my own Web form through which people can PayPal me money in exchange for my promise to not blow up the moon.</i></p>

<p>*transfers one meeeeelion dollars to paypal account*</p>

<p>Say, do you have any sharks...?</p>]]>
	 &lt;p&gt;Posted June 16, 2008  7:49 PM by don delny&lt;/p&gt;</content:encoded>
         <link>http://nielsenhayden.com/makinglight/archives/010341.html#274640</link>
         <guid isPermaLink="true">http://nielsenhayden.com/makinglight/archives/010341.html#274640</guid>
         <pubDate>Mon, 16 Jun 2008 19:49:57 -0500</pubDate>
      </item>
      
      <item>
         <title>The Associated Press wants to charge you $12.50 to quote five words from them -- comment #37 from Evan Goer</title>
         <description>comment from Evan Goer on 16.Jun.08</description>
         <content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>How weird. A major part of the AP's business model is making millions of dollars by pulling quotes from other people.  Admittedly, most people choose to let the AP have those words for free.</p>

<p>Let's say I write a book, and the AP publishes a review that quotes more than five words of my precious copyrighted text without signing a licensing agreement with me first. Given their previous behavior, what would their counter-argument be for refusing me my fees? <i>Obviously</i> not fair use, so what then?<br />
</p>]]>
	 &lt;p&gt;Posted June 16, 2008  8:19 PM by Evan Goer&lt;/p&gt;</content:encoded>
         <link>http://nielsenhayden.com/makinglight/archives/010341.html#274647</link>
         <guid isPermaLink="true">http://nielsenhayden.com/makinglight/archives/010341.html#274647</guid>
         <pubDate>Mon, 16 Jun 2008 20:19:28 -0500</pubDate>
      </item>
      
      <item>
         <title>The Associated Press wants to charge you $12.50 to quote five words from them -- comment #38 from Xopher</title>
         <description>comment from Xopher on 16.Jun.08</description>
         <content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Evan 37: Does the AP publish book reviews?  But yes, it does seem to me (IANAL) that they would be <a href="http://www.lectlaw.com/def/e040.htm" rel="nofollow">equitably estopped</a> from claiming fair use for their one lifted quotes.</p>]]>
	 &lt;p&gt;Posted June 16, 2008  8:30 PM by Xopher&lt;/p&gt;</content:encoded>
         <link>http://nielsenhayden.com/makinglight/archives/010341.html#274650</link>
         <guid isPermaLink="true">http://nielsenhayden.com/makinglight/archives/010341.html#274650</guid>
         <pubDate>Mon, 16 Jun 2008 20:30:39 -0500</pubDate>
      </item>
      
      <item>
         <title>The Associated Press wants to charge you $12.50 to quote five words from them -- comment #39 from morgue</title>
         <description>comment from morgue on 16.Jun.08</description>
         <content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Lotsa good comment at Scott Rosenberg's Wordyard blog:<br />
http://www.wordyard.com/</p>]]>
	 &lt;p&gt;Posted June 16, 2008  8:33 PM by morgue&lt;/p&gt;</content:encoded>
         <link>http://nielsenhayden.com/makinglight/archives/010341.html#274652</link>
         <guid isPermaLink="true">http://nielsenhayden.com/makinglight/archives/010341.html#274652</guid>
         <pubDate>Mon, 16 Jun 2008 20:33:08 -0500</pubDate>
      </item>
      
      <item>
         <title>The Associated Press wants to charge you $12.50 to quote five words from them -- comment #40 from Evan Goer</title>
         <description>comment from Evan Goer on 16.Jun.08</description>
         <content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Xopher -- actually, I did a quick search right after I posted that, and as far as I can tell, the AP <i>used</i> to do book reviews, but <a href="http://bookcriticscircle.blogspot.com/2007/02/ap-to-discontinue-book-reviews.html" rel="nofollow">they stopped over a year ago</a>. Hmmm...</p>]]>
	 &lt;p&gt;Posted June 16, 2008  8:36 PM by Evan Goer&lt;/p&gt;</content:encoded>
         <link>http://nielsenhayden.com/makinglight/archives/010341.html#274653</link>
         <guid isPermaLink="true">http://nielsenhayden.com/makinglight/archives/010341.html#274653</guid>
         <pubDate>Mon, 16 Jun 2008 20:36:10 -0500</pubDate>
      </item>
      
      <item>
         <title>The Associated Press wants to charge you $12.50 to quote five words from them -- comment #41 from don delny</title>
         <description>comment from don delny on 16.Jun.08</description>
         <content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Interesting.<br />
I wonder if perhaps, we could get a new Creative Commons license pulled together:</p>

<p>CC-noAP</p>

<p>Something like <a href="http://creativecommons.org/licenses/by-nc-sa/2.0/" rel="nofollow">Attribution-Noncommercial-Share Alike 2.0 Generic</a> except with SomeCommercial instead of NonCommercial.</p>

<p>It would be great if we could slip a spanner into the works by reporting on real news with such a license attached.</p>]]>
	 &lt;p&gt;Posted June 16, 2008  8:45 PM by don delny&lt;/p&gt;</content:encoded>
         <link>http://nielsenhayden.com/makinglight/archives/010341.html#274654</link>
         <guid isPermaLink="true">http://nielsenhayden.com/makinglight/archives/010341.html#274654</guid>
         <pubDate>Mon, 16 Jun 2008 20:45:58 -0500</pubDate>
      </item>
      
      <item>
         <title>The Associated Press wants to charge you $12.50 to quote five words from them -- comment #42 from Gigi Rose</title>
         <description>comment from Gigi Rose on 16.Jun.08</description>
         <content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I say make a way around it.  Just post the link and then point to the portion you wish to refer to by stating for example paragraph 2, 3rd sentence, word 3 then read to the end of the paragraph.  That's the way we did it it in school when the teacher asked us to find something aloud in our reading.  I always like to refer back to the initial source anyway.  It won't flow as well, but it will work.  <br />
I'm for paraphrasing too.  </p>]]>
	 &lt;p&gt;Posted June 16, 2008  8:47 PM by Gigi Rose&lt;/p&gt;</content:encoded>
         <link>http://nielsenhayden.com/makinglight/archives/010341.html#274655</link>
         <guid isPermaLink="true">http://nielsenhayden.com/makinglight/archives/010341.html#274655</guid>
         <pubDate>Mon, 16 Jun 2008 20:47:47 -0500</pubDate>
      </item>
      
      <item>
         <title>The Associated Press wants to charge you $12.50 to quote five words from them -- comment #43 from Evan Goer</title>
         <description>comment from Evan Goer on 16.Jun.08</description>
         <content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Actually, the more I think about it, the worse this seems for the AP.  Leaving book reviews aside, here's another hypothetical: A politician gives an racist speech at a closed-door fundraiser. Somebody leaks a transcript to the AP, and they print it. Or -- the AP gets forwarded emails written by the politician that strongly indicate corruption, etc.</p>

<p>What if the politician sues the AP for copyright infringement, like the Scientologists? Has the AP weakened their ability to defend against these kinds of lawsuits? Obviously the AP prints all sorts of copyrighted material that the owner of the copyright might not want published, and said owners will use every tool in the toolbox to suppress publication. I'm not a lawyer, so I'm genuinely curious:</p>

<p>A) Is "newsworthiness" is covered by fair use? Or is there some special area of law <i>beyond</i> fair use, carved out specifically for news organizations?</p>

<p>B) If "newsworthiness" <i>does</i> stem entirely from fair use, does hypocrisy count? That is, can the AP really say, "fair use for me, but not for thee," and get away with it, in the long term? <br />
</p>]]>
	 &lt;p&gt;Posted June 16, 2008  9:06 PM by Evan Goer&lt;/p&gt;</content:encoded>
         <link>http://nielsenhayden.com/makinglight/archives/010341.html#274659</link>
         <guid isPermaLink="true">http://nielsenhayden.com/makinglight/archives/010341.html#274659</guid>
         <pubDate>Mon, 16 Jun 2008 21:06:58 -0500</pubDate>
      </item>
      
      <item>
         <title>The Associated Press wants to charge you $12.50 to quote five words from them -- comment #44 from Michael Roberts</title>
         <description>comment from Michael Roberts on 16.Jun.08</description>
         <content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>And what the hell is "rewriting", anyway?  Are they claiming copyright on the ideas?  I don't think that word means what they think it means.  (Although I do think they're claiming something they know full well is not granted by law -- I suspect what we have here is a case of insult and barratry.)</p>]]>
	 &lt;p&gt;Posted June 16, 2008  9:12 PM by Michael Roberts&lt;/p&gt;</content:encoded>
         <link>http://nielsenhayden.com/makinglight/archives/010341.html#274660</link>
         <guid isPermaLink="true">http://nielsenhayden.com/makinglight/archives/010341.html#274660</guid>
         <pubDate>Mon, 16 Jun 2008 21:12:40 -0500</pubDate>
      </item>
      
      <item>
         <title>The Associated Press wants to charge you $12.50 to quote five words from them -- comment #45 from Michael Roberts</title>
         <description>comment from Michael Roberts on 16.Jun.08</description>
         <content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>GLghLJsdfazaaaaah!  Look at these boneheads: "By accessing the RSS feeds or the XML instructions provided herein, you indicate that you understand and agree to these terms and conditions."  They have a EULA shrinkwrap license on their <i>page</i>!!!1!  What incompetent boobs!  The page in question is http://hosted.ap.org/dynamic/fronts/RSS?SITE=AP&SECTION=HOME -- I won't link to it even with noref.  Bastards.  There's nothing I hate worse than rent-seeking behavior from my mental inferiors.</p>]]>
	 &lt;p&gt;Posted June 16, 2008  9:28 PM by Michael Roberts&lt;/p&gt;</content:encoded>
         <link>http://nielsenhayden.com/makinglight/archives/010341.html#274665</link>
         <guid isPermaLink="true">http://nielsenhayden.com/makinglight/archives/010341.html#274665</guid>
         <pubDate>Mon, 16 Jun 2008 21:28:39 -0500</pubDate>
      </item>
      
      <item>
         <title>The Associated Press wants to charge you $12.50 to quote five words from them -- comment #46 from Lee</title>
         <description>comment from Lee on 16.Jun.08</description>
         <content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Neil, #25: *snerk* You <i>almost</i> sneaked that one past me... </p>

<p>Michael, #34: Just to throw another cat among the pigeons, rewriting something in one's own words is the standard avoidance-of-plagiarism technique. I don't see how they can call that unacceptable; teachers all over the country would be up in arms! <br />
</p>]]>
	 &lt;p&gt;Posted June 16, 2008  9:47 PM by Lee&lt;/p&gt;</content:encoded>
         <link>http://nielsenhayden.com/makinglight/archives/010341.html#274667</link>
         <guid isPermaLink="true">http://nielsenhayden.com/makinglight/archives/010341.html#274667</guid>
         <pubDate>Mon, 16 Jun 2008 21:47:00 -0500</pubDate>
      </item>
      
      <item>
         <title>The Associated Press wants to charge you $12.50 to quote five words from them -- comment #47 from Avram</title>
         <description>comment from Avram on 16.Jun.08</description>
         <content:encoded><![CDATA[<p><i>They are would-be aristocrats who fully intend to return us to a society of orders and classes</i></p>

<p>Dammit, I was planning a wooly-headed, meandering post on this very topic, running at least half-a-dozen paragraphs to get to that exact conclusion, and you go and boil it all down to one simple, effective sentence! </p>]]>
	 &lt;p&gt;Posted June 16, 2008  9:47 PM by Avram&lt;/p&gt;</content:encoded>
         <link>http://nielsenhayden.com/makinglight/archives/010341.html#274668</link>
         <guid isPermaLink="true">http://nielsenhayden.com/makinglight/archives/010341.html#274668</guid>
         <pubDate>Mon, 16 Jun 2008 21:47:10 -0500</pubDate>
      </item>
      
      <item>
         <title>The Associated Press wants to charge you $12.50 to quote five words from them -- comment #48 from Michael Roberts</title>
         <description>comment from Michael Roberts on 16.Jun.08</description>
         <content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Avram @47 - which he will be glad to lease to you for the low, low price of xxx dollars per use.  Remember - honor copyright!  Piracy hurts creators, devalues their works, and puts you and your employer at risk.</p>

<p>Now <i>THAT'S</i> America!</p>]]>
	 &lt;p&gt;Posted June 16, 2008  9:52 PM by Michael Roberts&lt;/p&gt;</content:encoded>
         <link>http://nielsenhayden.com/makinglight/archives/010341.html#274671</link>
         <guid isPermaLink="true">http://nielsenhayden.com/makinglight/archives/010341.html#274671</guid>
         <pubDate>Mon, 16 Jun 2008 21:52:17 -0500</pubDate>
      </item>
      
      <item>
         <title>The Associated Press wants to charge you $12.50 to quote five words from them -- comment #49 from Michael Roberts</title>
         <description>comment from Michael Roberts on 16.Jun.08</description>
         <content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Speaking of which, Avram, I note you copied <i>the entire sentence</i> there.  I hope you checked with Patrick first regarding his policy?  Because not to have done so would, of course, be illegal.</p>]]>
	 &lt;p&gt;Posted June 16, 2008  9:53 PM by Michael Roberts&lt;/p&gt;</content:encoded>
         <link>http://nielsenhayden.com/makinglight/archives/010341.html#274672</link>
         <guid isPermaLink="true">http://nielsenhayden.com/makinglight/archives/010341.html#274672</guid>
         <pubDate>Mon, 16 Jun 2008 21:53:23 -0500</pubDate>
      </item>
      
      <item>
         <title>The Associated Press wants to charge you $12.50 to quote five words from them -- comment #50 from Ginger</title>
         <description>comment from Ginger on 16.Jun.08</description>
         <content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Oddly enough, thinking about AP wire news reminded me of the time I found a news item about a submarine hitting a fishing boat, saw that it was a sub captained by someone I knew, printed it out, went back a few hours later to find updates -- and it had disappeared. Not corrected, not left to age off, just gone. I never found any mention of it again. </p>

<p>I always wondered who had that kind of power over AP. </p>]]>
	 &lt;p&gt;Posted June 16, 2008 10:02 PM by Ginger&lt;/p&gt;</content:encoded>
         <link>http://nielsenhayden.com/makinglight/archives/010341.html#274673</link>
         <guid isPermaLink="true">http://nielsenhayden.com/makinglight/archives/010341.html#274673</guid>
         <pubDate>Mon, 16 Jun 2008 22:02:38 -0500</pubDate>
      </item>
      
      <item>
         <title>The Associated Press wants to charge you $12.50 to quote five words from them -- comment #51 from TomB</title>
         <description>comment from TomB on 16.Jun.08</description>
         <content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I like the idea of a site with two donation forms, one to keep you from blowing up the moon, the other to have you go ahead and do it anyway. The side that gets the most money wins. It could be a classic example of how capitalism is fueled by robust competition. </p>]]>
	 &lt;p&gt;Posted June 16, 2008 10:43 PM by TomB&lt;/p&gt;</content:encoded>
         <link>http://nielsenhayden.com/makinglight/archives/010341.html#274684</link>
         <guid isPermaLink="true">http://nielsenhayden.com/makinglight/archives/010341.html#274684</guid>
         <pubDate>Mon, 16 Jun 2008 22:43:38 -0500</pubDate>
      </item>
      
      <item>
         <title>The Associated Press wants to charge you $12.50 to quote five words from them -- comment #52 from TomB</title>
         <description>comment from TomB on 16.Jun.08</description>
         <content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Oops. Missed Clifton Royston @33. Great minds, ahem, oh well. </p>

<p>don delny @36, if he's serious it's going to have to be one meeeeelion eeeeeuros or some other real currency. </p>]]>
	 &lt;p&gt;Posted June 16, 2008 10:49 PM by TomB&lt;/p&gt;</content:encoded>
         <link>http://nielsenhayden.com/makinglight/archives/010341.html#274686</link>
         <guid isPermaLink="true">http://nielsenhayden.com/makinglight/archives/010341.html#274686</guid>
         <pubDate>Mon, 16 Jun 2008 22:49:58 -0500</pubDate>
      </item>
      
      <item>
         <title>The Associated Press wants to charge you $12.50 to quote five words from them -- comment #53 from Patrick Nielsen Hayden</title>
         <description>comment from Patrick Nielsen Hayden on 16.Jun.08</description>
         <content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Paula Lieberman's #2 does remind me that in my day job, I've been interviewed by AP reporters more than once.  Perhaps next time I'll tell them that my rates begin at $12.50 for five words.</p>]]>
	 &lt;p&gt;Posted June 16, 2008 10:56 PM by Patrick Nielsen Hayden&lt;/p&gt;</content:encoded>
         <link>http://nielsenhayden.com/makinglight/archives/010341.html#274691</link>
         <guid isPermaLink="true">http://nielsenhayden.com/makinglight/archives/010341.html#274691</guid>
         <pubDate>Mon, 16 Jun 2008 22:56:08 -0500</pubDate>
      </item>
      
      <item>
         <title>The Associated Press wants to charge you $12.50 to quote five words from them -- comment #54 from P J Evans</title>
         <description>comment from P J Evans on 16.Jun.08</description>
         <content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Over at Kos, an <a href="http://dailykos.com/storyonly/2008/6/16/145135/241/173/536821" rel="nofollow">update</a> of sorts.<br />
Apparently the AP is feeling the heat, but not quite enough yet.</p>]]>
	 &lt;p&gt;Posted June 16, 2008 10:56 PM by P J Evans&lt;/p&gt;</content:encoded>
         <link>http://nielsenhayden.com/makinglight/archives/010341.html#274692</link>
         <guid isPermaLink="true">http://nielsenhayden.com/makinglight/archives/010341.html#274692</guid>
         <pubDate>Mon, 16 Jun 2008 22:56:45 -0500</pubDate>
      </item>
      
      <item>
         <title>The Associated Press wants to charge you $12.50 to quote five words from them -- comment #55 from Leva Cygnet</title>
         <description>comment from Leva Cygnet on 16.Jun.08</description>
         <content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Their customers can't be happy. </p>

<p>It's like this: a significant chunk of traffic to online news comes from links on other sites. And by significant chunk, at least on the small news site I run, I mean "upwards of 90% for some articles, more than 50% for many." Generally speaking, these are links from bloggers and small web sites which post a juicy quote and then say, "Look at the shiny!" or, "Look at the suckage!" </p>

<p>And then all the bloggers' readers go view the article. And the news site then makes money from exposing advertising to that traffic. This is all logical and very basic. Most news sites want links, and want to be quoted.</p>

<p>The AP is in the business of selling syndicated news, yes/no?</p>

<p>This policy will reduce traffic to syndicated AP articles. Which reduces the value of AP news, because on teh intarwebs, traffic=money.</p>

<p>Bwut?</p>

<p>WHY would you want to discourage people from quoting and linking to your content on syndicated sites when you're in the business of selling said content to said syndicates? <i>Huh?</i> Because those customers -- the syndicated sites -- cannot be pleased at all by this. It hurts their bottom line. </p>

<p>On top of that, the quotes and links to AP news help site search rank. A good link from an established, high-PR blog, with topics related to your article, embedded in text, <i>exactly</i> as a blogger would typically do in the process of quoting an article, is worth quite a bit more than $12.50. It's worth four or five times that, and I'm talking real dollars if you auction such links off on certain shady web sites. Because links have  a real impact on search rank, which means traffic, which means ad money, they have a real financial value. </p>

<p>Again with the, "Huh?"</p>

<p>I don't get it. And honestly, I don't think the AP gets it either. I really don't understand what they're trying to accomplish.</p>]]>
	 &lt;p&gt;Posted June 16, 2008 11:12 PM by Leva Cygnet&lt;/p&gt;</content:encoded>
         <link>http://nielsenhayden.com/makinglight/archives/010341.html#274699</link>
         <guid isPermaLink="true">http://nielsenhayden.com/makinglight/archives/010341.html#274699</guid>
         <pubDate>Mon, 16 Jun 2008 23:12:22 -0500</pubDate>
      </item>
      
      <item>
         <title>The Associated Press wants to charge you $12.50 to quote five words from them -- comment #56 from Rahel Bailie</title>
         <description>comment from Rahel Bailie on 16.Jun.08</description>
         <content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Perhaps if enough bloggers ignore (turn their backs on, boycott, whatever euphemism you choose) sites that invoke these regulations, they become redundant. A couple of concentrated months of active "unintended consequences" and I suspect they may get the point much faster than they expected.</p>]]>
	 &lt;p&gt;Posted June 16, 2008 11:45 PM by Rahel Bailie&lt;/p&gt;</content:encoded>
         <link>http://nielsenhayden.com/makinglight/archives/010341.html#274702</link>
         <guid isPermaLink="true">http://nielsenhayden.com/makinglight/archives/010341.html#274702</guid>
         <pubDate>Mon, 16 Jun 2008 23:45:29 -0500</pubDate>
      </item>
      
      <item>
         <title>The Associated Press wants to charge you $12.50 to quote five words from them -- comment #57 from Teresa Nielsen Hayden</title>
         <description>comment from Teresa Nielsen Hayden on 16.Jun.08</description>
         <content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Michael Roberts (29):<blockquote>All you people here in the publishing industry -- how closely does a text have to hew to the original to be considered a quote? Is it even close to the bounds of reason to consider a paraphrasing algorithm to change a text to avoid the letter of the law? (Especially given that AP has to find you before they can sue you, I suppose.)<p>Just a throwaway idea.</p></blockquote>An interesting idea.</p>

<p>Copyright inheres in the specific arrangement of words. This is why <i>The Sword of Shannara</i> could get published -- the words of the telling were different, though the underlying story was obviously similar to <i>Lord of the Rings.</i></p>

<p>Paula Lieberman (31):<blockquote>Michael #22<br />The fascists responsible for the AP effrontery have put language in that includes banning it being rewritten, even!<p>The codicil at the end of e.g. the AP article at<br />
http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/25188169/<p>is oxymoronic, claiming the that article "may not be published...."</p></p></blockquote>Paula's right. This is an extralegal rights grab. Here's their new "copyright" notice:<blockquote><blockquote>Copyright 2008 The Associated Press. All rights reserved. This material may not be published, broadcast, rewritten or redistributed.</blockquote></blockquote>I suspect there's a rights grab going on with their attempted interdiction of "redistributed." I <i>know</i> there's a rights grab in their prohibition of "rewritten." They don't own that right! It's tantamount to asserting they own the news -- that they own the underlying information, rather than the surface telling that's actually covered by copyright.</p>

<p>This is an <i>iniquitous</i> claim.</p>

<p>Michael Roberts (34):<blockquote>What I'm wondering is whether such rewriting could plausibly be used as a defense (probably not) and -- much more saliently -- whether such an algorithm could be considered to be making a valid point. (Said point being, I suppose, "Fine, you don't want to be quoted, then we won't!".)</blockquote>It's a grand way to make life harder for AP. If you can teach your algorithm to recognize the breakpoints between units of meaning -- AP style runs heavily to one- or two-sentence paragraphs, and formulaic beginnings and endings -- and swap the order of each pair, then rewrite them, it'll be even harder for them to make a claim. Granted, it'll render some stories nonsensical; but giving them a further rewrite before using them will be good for us. </p>

<p>Michael Roberts again (44):<blockquote>And what the hell is "rewriting", anyway? Are they claiming copyright on the ideas?</blockquote>Yes. That's exactly what they're doing.<blockquote>I don't think that word means what they think it means. (Although I do think they're claiming something they know full well is not granted by law -- I suspect what we have here is a case of insult and barratry.)</blockquote>I don't know the technical terms. What I know is that they don't have those rights, and they're trying to grab them anyway.<p>And yet again (45):<blockquote>GLghLJsdfazaaaaah! Look at these boneheads:<blockquote>"By accessing the RSS feeds or the XML instructions provided herein, you indicate that you understand and agree to these terms and conditions."</blockquote>They have a EULA shrinkwrap license on their page!!!1! What incompetent boobs! The page in question is http://hosted.ap.org/dynamic/fronts/RSS?SITE=AP&SECTION=HOME -- I won't link to it even with noref. Bastards. There's nothing I hate worse than rent-seeking behavior from my mental inferiors.</blockquote>They're getting very bad legal advice, and are heading straight for a PR disaster. Who hated the AP before this? Nobody. But we do now.</p>

<p>I like Paula's idea: denying the AP the right to quote anything you've written or said unless they pay you for it -- say, $12.50 per five words.<br />
</p></p>]]>
	 &lt;p&gt;Posted June 16, 2008 11:50 PM by Teresa Nielsen Hayden&lt;/p&gt;</content:encoded>
         <link>http://nielsenhayden.com/makinglight/archives/010341.html#274703</link>
         <guid isPermaLink="true">http://nielsenhayden.com/makinglight/archives/010341.html#274703</guid>
         <pubDate>Mon, 16 Jun 2008 23:50:08 -0500</pubDate>
      </item>
      
      <item>
         <title>The Associated Press wants to charge you $12.50 to quote five words from them -- comment #58 from Clifton Royston</title>
         <description>comment from Clifton Royston on 17.Jun.08</description>
         <content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>TomB: My wife and I have a modified catchphrase we abbreviate as GTMTA: "Greatly twisted minds think alike."  </p>

<p>(Come to think of it, it must have taken a greatly twisted mind at AP to come up with this line of bull.)</p>]]>
	 &lt;p&gt;Posted June 17, 2008 12:00 AM by Clifton Royston&lt;/p&gt;</content:encoded>
         <link>http://nielsenhayden.com/makinglight/archives/010341.html#274704</link>
         <guid isPermaLink="true">http://nielsenhayden.com/makinglight/archives/010341.html#274704</guid>
         <pubDate>Tue, 17 Jun 2008 00:00:01 -0500</pubDate>
      </item>
      
      <item>
         <title>The Associated Press wants to charge you $12.50 to quote five words from them -- comment #59 from Tam</title>
         <description>comment from Tam on 17.Jun.08</description>
         <content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I can't tell you how glad I am to see the changes to Canada's copyright law on ML.  No one seems to be talking about this in my social circle.  I was starting to think I was panicking about nothing.<br />
  <br />
Recommence panic. Threat verified.</p>]]>
	 &lt;p&gt;Posted June 17, 2008 12:01 AM by Tam&lt;/p&gt;</content:encoded>
         <link>http://nielsenhayden.com/makinglight/archives/010341.html#274705</link>
         <guid isPermaLink="true">http://nielsenhayden.com/makinglight/archives/010341.html#274705</guid>
         <pubDate>Tue, 17 Jun 2008 00:01:40 -0500</pubDate>
      </item>
      
      <item>
         <title>The Associated Press wants to charge you $12.50 to quote five words from them -- comment #60 from Thomas</title>
         <description>comment from Thomas on 17.Jun.08</description>
         <content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>In this case there is an empirical test as to whether any harm is done to AP, which is perhaps relevant to 'fair use'.</p>

<p>Measure click-through to the original article at the five-word excerpts and at longer summaries.  I expect that click-through would increase for longer quotes up to a certain point and then start to decrease. If bloggers are quoting AP stories at a level that causes more click-through than a five-word excerpt does (and I think they are) that would surely support fair use as commentary on the news.</p>

<p>The results of this test at least seem to be relevant to whether restricting quotation 'promotes the progress of the Useful Arts', unlike, eg, the `means well' test (cf Cory Doctorow vs Ursula LeGuin).</p>]]>
	 &lt;p&gt;Posted June 17, 2008 12:29 AM by Thomas&lt;/p&gt;</content:encoded>
         <link>http://nielsenhayden.com/makinglight/archives/010341.html#274709</link>
         <guid isPermaLink="true">http://nielsenhayden.com/makinglight/archives/010341.html#274709</guid>
         <pubDate>Tue, 17 Jun 2008 00:29:38 -0500</pubDate>
      </item>
      
      <item>
         <title>The Associated Press wants to charge you $12.50 to quote five words from them -- comment #61 from Michael Roberts</title>
         <description>comment from Michael Roberts on 17.Jun.08</description>
         <content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Teresa, no way no how they got legal advice on this from anybody who knows what they're doing.</p>

<p>Leva @55, I've worked online software development since before most people knew there was such a thing, and I know exactly what AP is thinking.  They're thinking, "Why can't we monetize our reprints?"  So they have a neat little (c)-in-a-house icon (I find that icon really cute, actually, and I think I'll use it myself from now on) with a popup that explains their honor system.</p>

<p>And they see that Microsoft has a EULA, so pointy-haired boss says, "We can do that on our feed page, right?  Because people shouldn't be stealing our feeds, we pay good money for those bytes!"  So they put a EULA on their feed page, written by some clerk at the law office and charged at $400/hr without the actual input of an attorney.</p>

<p>Nobody even thinks about their member sites -- they think their feeds drive all the traffic to their member sites (notice how the links from the RSS feed page all go to randomized hosted member sites?  This will make it damned easy to find out all the templates to the member sites, the better to strip out the content, I mean, it <i>would</i>, were anyone so unscrupulous as to contemplate doing such an illegal and heinous thing.)</p>

<p>Chances are, given the poor state of the newspaper industry, their member sites believe this analysis.  Trust me on this (nancynall.com is a fount of insight on how "well" newspaper editorial staffs are dealing with the Internet.)</p>

<p>This has committeethink all over it.  It's stupid, but nobody ever got fired for buying IBM or for decrying piracy.  (Yet.)</p>

<p>Teresa again -- "insult and barratry" is a little (very little) joke.  Barratry is what this is, or more specifically, barratry is what it will be if they actually bring suit.  I suspect their attorneys know this, and no such case will come to court, which is why they pick on little guys in the hopes of skimming off some settlement cash.  Because the penalty for barratry is disbarring -- for the attorney.  Not a trivial thing, and one which bloggers would be advised to learn (gosh, that anti-spamming past comes in handy again!)</p>

<p>I am quite happy to hear you suspect my little notion has merit.  I so don't have time to do this, but I've noted that if one fails to strike when the Internet iron is hot, one is last minute's news -- thus nonexistent.</p>

<p>I've still used up my play time for today, though (tinkering with the <a href="http://www.vivtek.com/toon-o-matic/" rel="nofollow">Amazing Toon-o-Matic</a>) and so foiling the eeeeevil plans of the AP shall have to await the morn.</p>

<p>Ta.<br />
</p>]]>
	 &lt;p&gt;Posted June 17, 2008 12:50 AM by Michael Roberts&lt;/p&gt;</content:encoded>
         <link>http://nielsenhayden.com/makinglight/archives/010341.html#274711</link>
         <guid isPermaLink="true">http://nielsenhayden.com/makinglight/archives/010341.html#274711</guid>
         <pubDate>Tue, 17 Jun 2008 00:50:51 -0500</pubDate>
      </item>
      
      <item>
         <title>The Associated Press wants to charge you $12.50 to quote five words from them -- comment #62 from Michael Roberts</title>
         <description>comment from Michael Roberts on 17.Jun.08</description>
         <content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Oh, except this paragraph from Nedra Pickler's article up right now:<br />
<blockquote><br />
"After eight years of incompetence, neglect and failure, we need change," Gore said. "After eight years when our Constitution has been dishonored and disrespected, we need changes."<br />
</blockquote></p>

<p>That's 25 words from Al Gore (hopefully they paid him $62.50) and two from AP.  So obviously I may quote it, because Al isn't a fricking JERK.</p>]]>
	 &lt;p&gt;Posted June 17, 2008 12:57 AM by Michael Roberts&lt;/p&gt;</content:encoded>
         <link>http://nielsenhayden.com/makinglight/archives/010341.html#274714</link>
         <guid isPermaLink="true">http://nielsenhayden.com/makinglight/archives/010341.html#274714</guid>
         <pubDate>Tue, 17 Jun 2008 00:57:06 -0500</pubDate>
      </item>
      
      <item>
         <title>The Associated Press wants to charge you $12.50 to quote five words from them -- comment #63 from Craig R</title>
         <description>comment from Craig R on 17.Jun.08</description>
         <content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I would like to point out that the admonition "this page may not be published" could be viewed as an attempt by AP to claim that any display of the text by a browser is a violation of copyright (as, in the world of the intertubes, display *is* publication).</p>

<p>Ahh, the return to the storied realms of Hidden Knowledge and Secret Law.. (hmm, of course, in this Great Republic of ours, we may already have achieved the latter status...)</p>]]>
	 &lt;p&gt;Posted June 17, 2008  1:19 AM by Craig R&lt;/p&gt;</content:encoded>
         <link>http://nielsenhayden.com/makinglight/archives/010341.html#274715</link>
         <guid isPermaLink="true">http://nielsenhayden.com/makinglight/archives/010341.html#274715</guid>
         <pubDate>Tue, 17 Jun 2008 01:19:38 -0500</pubDate>
      </item>
      
      <item>
         <title>The Associated Press wants to charge you $12.50 to quote five words from them -- comment #64 from heresiarch</title>
         <description>comment from heresiarch on 17.Jun.08</description>
         <content:encoded><![CDATA[<p><b>Jason B @ 14:</b> <i>"I generally operate under the phrase "People suck." Corporations suck more, because they are just groups of people. Therefore, "Group-people suck.""</i></p>

<p>It's not fair to blame people, even large groups of them, for the shittiness of corporations. For one thing, it lets corporations off the hook--"Hey, we're just doing what you guys would be doing anyway!" No. Corporations <i>do</i> encourage people to be worse than they otherwise would be. Corporations <i>do</i> enable and, indeed, incentivise behavior far worse than people would pursue on their own. Corporations suck in a multitude of ways beyond the suckitude of mere humans.</p>

<p><b>Clifton Royston @ 58:</b> <i>"My wife and I have a modified catchphrase we abbreviate as GTMTA: "Greatly twisted minds think alike.""</i></p>

<p>I'd love to use that, but I don't have a spare $12.50.</p>]]>
	 &lt;p&gt;Posted June 17, 2008  1:28 AM by heresiarch&lt;/p&gt;</content:encoded>
         <link>http://nielsenhayden.com/makinglight/archives/010341.html#274716</link>
         <guid isPermaLink="true">http://nielsenhayden.com/makinglight/archives/010341.html#274716</guid>
         <pubDate>Tue, 17 Jun 2008 01:28:06 -0500</pubDate>
      </item>
      
      <item>
         <title>The Associated Press wants to charge you $12.50 to quote five words from them -- comment #65 from TomB</title>
         <description>comment from TomB on 17.Jun.08</description>
         <content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Thomas @60 -- I'm pretty sure fair use is not about preventing harm to the copyright holder. Rather it is what we the people have reserved unto ourselves, and chosen not to grant to copyright holders. </p>]]>
	 &lt;p&gt;Posted June 17, 2008  1:54 AM by TomB&lt;/p&gt;</content:encoded>
         <link>http://nielsenhayden.com/makinglight/archives/010341.html#274718</link>
         <guid isPermaLink="true">http://nielsenhayden.com/makinglight/archives/010341.html#274718</guid>
         <pubDate>Tue, 17 Jun 2008 01:54:48 -0500</pubDate>
      </item>
      
      <item>
         <title>The Associated Press wants to charge you $12.50 to quote five words from them -- comment #66 from Earl Cooley III</title>
         <description>comment from Earl Cooley III on 17.Jun.08</description>
         <content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Five words: "Fair Use is not evil".</p>

<p>I was going to remove the AP from my iGoogle list of RSS feeds by way of protest, but found it wasn't there to begin with.</p>]]>
	 &lt;p&gt;Posted June 17, 2008  3:36 AM by Earl Cooley III&lt;/p&gt;</content:encoded>
         <link>http://nielsenhayden.com/makinglight/archives/010341.html#274722</link>
         <guid isPermaLink="true">http://nielsenhayden.com/makinglight/archives/010341.html#274722</guid>
         <pubDate>Tue, 17 Jun 2008 03:36:46 -0500</pubDate>
      </item>
      
      <item>
         <title>The Associated Press wants to charge you $12.50 to quote five words from them -- comment #67 from Neil Willcox</title>
         <description>comment from Neil Willcox on 17.Jun.08</description>
         <content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Lee @46 - I thought that Patrick <i>might</i> have chosen the moon to indicate lunacy on the part of the organisation in question.  I might have read something into it that isn't there, but it ought to be.</p>]]>
	 &lt;p&gt;Posted June 17, 2008  5:39 AM by Neil Willcox&lt;/p&gt;</content:encoded>
         <link>http://nielsenhayden.com/makinglight/archives/010341.html#274727</link>
         <guid isPermaLink="true">http://nielsenhayden.com/makinglight/archives/010341.html#274727</guid>
         <pubDate>Tue, 17 Jun 2008 05:39:01 -0500</pubDate>
      </item>
      
      <item>
         <title>The Associated Press wants to charge you $12.50 to quote five words from them -- comment #68 from Caroline</title>
         <description>comment from Caroline on 17.Jun.08</description>
         <content:encoded><![CDATA[<p><a href="http://pandagon.net/index.php/site/comments/al_gore_endorses_obama/" rel="nofollow">Excellent commentary at Pandagon</a></p>]]>
	 &lt;p&gt;Posted June 17, 2008  8:03 AM by Caroline&lt;/p&gt;</content:encoded>
         <link>http://nielsenhayden.com/makinglight/archives/010341.html#274732</link>
         <guid isPermaLink="true">http://nielsenhayden.com/makinglight/archives/010341.html#274732</guid>
         <pubDate>Tue, 17 Jun 2008 08:03:51 -0500</pubDate>
      </item>
      
      <item>
         <title>The Associated Press wants to charge you $12.50 to quote five words from them -- comment #69 from Bill Higgins-- Beam Jockey</title>
         <description>comment from Bill Higgins-- Beam Jockey on 17.Jun.08</description>
         <content:encoded><![CDATA[<p><a href="http://ap.google.com/article/ALeqM5hqcKwCoLO6JDount0qNG9XSrvojwD91BEK6O0" rel="nofollow">AP says it will meet with bloggers</a>.   That should fix everything.</p>]]>
	 &lt;p&gt;Posted June 17, 2008  8:33 AM by Bill Higgins-- Beam Jockey&lt;/p&gt;</content:encoded>
         <link>http://nielsenhayden.com/makinglight/archives/010341.html#274734</link>
         <guid isPermaLink="true">http://nielsenhayden.com/makinglight/archives/010341.html#274734</guid>
         <pubDate>Tue, 17 Jun 2008 08:33:38 -0500</pubDate>
      </item>
      
      <item>
         <title>The Associated Press wants to charge you $12.50 to quote five words from them -- comment #70 from NelC</title>
         <description>comment from NelC on 17.Jun.08</description>
         <content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>From the AP's page on Freedom of Information: <blockquote>Th ssctd Prss s th bstn f th ppls rght t knw rnd th wrld.</blockquote></p>

<p>If I'd quoted it in full, I guess I would have owed AP £7. Almost worth it for the laugh, but I wouldn't want Patrick and Teresa lumbered with the bill. Disemvowelling seemed APpropriate, somehow.</p>]]>
	 &lt;p&gt;Posted June 17, 2008  8:36 AM by NelC&lt;/p&gt;</content:encoded>
         <link>http://nielsenhayden.com/makinglight/archives/010341.html#274735</link>
         <guid isPermaLink="true">http://nielsenhayden.com/makinglight/archives/010341.html#274735</guid>
         <pubDate>Tue, 17 Jun 2008 08:36:17 -0500</pubDate>
      </item>
      
      <item>
         <title>The Associated Press wants to charge you $12.50 to quote five words from them -- comment #71 from Teresa Nielsen Hayden</title>
         <description>comment from Teresa Nielsen Hayden on 17.Jun.08</description>
         <content:encoded><![CDATA[<p><a href="http://wearscience.com/design/moon/" rel="nofollow"><b>Patrick's t-shirt: I has found it!<b></b></b></a></p>]]>
	 &lt;p&gt;Posted June 17, 2008  8:39 AM by Teresa Nielsen Hayden&lt;/p&gt;</content:encoded>
         <link>http://nielsenhayden.com/makinglight/archives/010341.html#274736</link>
         <guid isPermaLink="true">http://nielsenhayden.com/makinglight/archives/010341.html#274736</guid>
         <pubDate>Tue, 17 Jun 2008 08:39:35 -0500</pubDate>
      </item>
      
      <item>
         <title>The Associated Press wants to charge you $12.50 to quote five words from them -- comment #72 from abi</title>
         <description>comment from abi on 17.Jun.08</description>
         <content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Michael Roberts, check your email and your spam trap, please.</p>]]>
	 &lt;p&gt;Posted June 17, 2008  8:44 AM by abi&lt;/p&gt;</content:encoded>
         <link>http://nielsenhayden.com/makinglight/archives/010341.html#274738</link>
         <guid isPermaLink="true">http://nielsenhayden.com/makinglight/archives/010341.html#274738</guid>
         <pubDate>Tue, 17 Jun 2008 08:44:59 -0500</pubDate>
      </item>
      
      <item>
         <title>The Associated Press wants to charge you $12.50 to quote five words from them -- comment #73 from Scott Taylor</title>
         <description>comment from Scott Taylor on 17.Jun.08</description>
         <content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>You are welcome to quote relevant sections of these writings for your use, so long as they do not include the totality of the work, you are not trying to directly make a profit off my writings (if your blog has ad revenue, that's fine. If you're charging people to see my words, or publishing them and not cutting me in on the profits, it isn't), and you do not try to claim these writings as your own or those of someone else, with one exception. These are the only five words the Associated Press may use without fee* - </p>

<p>"Associated Press can fuck itself."</p>

<p>- all other quotes, misquotes, rewrites, condensations, edits, paraphrasings, or other usage by the Associated Press of my writings, sayings, or other copyrighted materials of any sort are subject to a per-word rate of $2.50, payable in full before publish. Violation of this copyright agreement will be prosecuted to fullest extent of the law. Perusal of this material indicates agreement with this agreement. <br />
all writings not otherwise indicated are (c) Scott Taylor, 2001 - 2008. All Rights Reserved</p>

<p>*words must be used in toto, and in order. No editing, alteration, obfuscation, or rewording is allowed. </p>

<p>Anyone want to take a stab at making this legally binding, or at least not legally stupid? I'm not anticipating anyone actually wanting to quote me in the funny papers - but, what the hell, at least it's a statement. </p>]]>
	 &lt;p&gt;Posted June 17, 2008  9:02 AM by Scott Taylor&lt;/p&gt;</content:encoded>
         <link>http://nielsenhayden.com/makinglight/archives/010341.html#274741</link>
         <guid isPermaLink="true">http://nielsenhayden.com/makinglight/archives/010341.html#274741</guid>
         <pubDate>Tue, 17 Jun 2008 09:02:28 -0500</pubDate>
      </item>
      
      <item>
         <title>The Associated Press wants to charge you $12.50 to quote five words from them -- comment #74 from Lila</title>
         <description>comment from Lila on 17.Jun.08</description>
         <content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Jason B @#14, corporations suck more because they are groups of people protected from responsibility for their actions.</p>]]>
	 &lt;p&gt;Posted June 17, 2008  9:07 AM by Lila&lt;/p&gt;</content:encoded>
         <link>http://nielsenhayden.com/makinglight/archives/010341.html#274743</link>
         <guid isPermaLink="true">http://nielsenhayden.com/makinglight/archives/010341.html#274743</guid>
         <pubDate>Tue, 17 Jun 2008 09:07:49 -0500</pubDate>
      </item>
      
      <item>
         <title>The Associated Press wants to charge you $12.50 to quote five words from them -- comment #75 from Irai</title>
         <description>comment from Irai on 17.Jun.08</description>
         <content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I'm pretty sure this web form isn't new.  It's been around for some time.  In fact, the story that the form came from (click the AP NewsAlert URL) is dated 5/29.  So this is not something new they came up with.</p>

<p>In fact, I've looked into their republishing costs before so I know it's not new.  </p>

<p>Still, it's ridiculous.</p>]]>
	 &lt;p&gt;Posted June 17, 2008  9:12 AM by Irai&lt;/p&gt;</content:encoded>
         <link>http://nielsenhayden.com/makinglight/archives/010341.html#274744</link>
         <guid isPermaLink="true">http://nielsenhayden.com/makinglight/archives/010341.html#274744</guid>
         <pubDate>Tue, 17 Jun 2008 09:12:41 -0500</pubDate>
      </item>
      
      <item>
         <title>The Associated Press wants to charge you $12.50 to quote five words from them -- comment #76 from Greg Andrew</title>
         <description>comment from Greg Andrew on 17.Jun.08</description>
         <content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>While the AP price list is bizarre beyond words, the original post is misleading at best - the AP has not "now published [this] web form."  - I see no sign whatsoever that this form has just now been published recently in reaction to the current online controversy.</p>]]>
	 &lt;p&gt;Posted June 17, 2008  9:15 AM by Greg Andrew&lt;/p&gt;</content:encoded>
         <link>http://nielsenhayden.com/makinglight/archives/010341.html#274745</link>
         <guid isPermaLink="true">http://nielsenhayden.com/makinglight/archives/010341.html#274745</guid>
         <pubDate>Tue, 17 Jun 2008 09:15:09 -0500</pubDate>
      </item>
      
      <item>
         <title>The Associated Press wants to charge you $12.50 to quote five words from them -- comment #77 from Nigel Rowe</title>
         <description>comment from Nigel Rowe on 17.Jun.08</description>
         <content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Hey Patrick, top spot on TechMeme, good going! Don't forget to send *them* a bill for quoting you...</p>]]>
	 &lt;p&gt;Posted June 17, 2008  9:22 AM by Nigel Rowe&lt;/p&gt;</content:encoded>
         <link>http://nielsenhayden.com/makinglight/archives/010341.html#274746</link>
         <guid isPermaLink="true">http://nielsenhayden.com/makinglight/archives/010341.html#274746</guid>
         <pubDate>Tue, 17 Jun 2008 09:22:03 -0500</pubDate>
      </item>
      
      <item>
         <title>The Associated Press wants to charge you $12.50 to quote five words from them -- comment #78 from Jack</title>
         <description>comment from Jack on 17.Jun.08</description>
         <content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I want to quote this article in my comment here, but I am unsure if it is owned by the AP... </p>]]>
	 &lt;p&gt;Posted June 17, 2008  9:33 AM by Jack&lt;/p&gt;</content:encoded>
         <link>http://nielsenhayden.com/makinglight/archives/010341.html#274749</link>
         <guid isPermaLink="true">http://nielsenhayden.com/makinglight/archives/010341.html#274749</guid>
         <pubDate>Tue, 17 Jun 2008 09:33:42 -0500</pubDate>
      </item>
      
      <item>
         <title>The Associated Press wants to charge you $12.50 to quote five words from them -- comment #79 from Paula Lieberman</title>
         <description>comment from Paula Lieberman on 17.Jun.08</description>
         <content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>#70 -- there is the parody wild card, but A$$hole$ Per$ecutionary apparently regard the US Constitution as the same asswipe the Oaf regards it.... </p>]]>
	 &lt;p&gt;Posted June 17, 2008  9:41 AM by Paula Lieberman&lt;/p&gt;</content:encoded>
         <link>http://nielsenhayden.com/makinglight/archives/010341.html#274751</link>
         <guid isPermaLink="true">http://nielsenhayden.com/makinglight/archives/010341.html#274751</guid>
         <pubDate>Tue, 17 Jun 2008 09:41:28 -0500</pubDate>
      </item>
      
      <item>
         <title>The Associated Press wants to charge you $12.50 to quote five words from them -- comment #80 from Paula Lieberman</title>
         <description>comment from Paula Lieberman on 17.Jun.08</description>
         <content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>#70 NelC</p>

<p>You rewrote the line, however, und das verboten by den Arrogant Petulants ist....</p>

<p>Hmm, I wonder, does Bu$h have a honey deal with AP, such that he will be an official figurehead for them and all this excrement AP is slinging, is designed to continue and extend the obfuscations, lies, misdeamors, and high crimes with all others suspended, barred, impeded, and precluded from having any and all privileges and rights to investigate, reporting, muckrake, charge, refute, defend against, and terminate, with or without!! prejudice, the lies, prevarications, calumnify, misinformation, defamation, and general misdeeds?</p>

<p>[Translation, who and what might be <b>protected</b> by this imperialistic power grab?!] </p>

<p>#63, Craig</p>

<p>That's why I typed that it's oxymoronic!</p>]]>
	 &lt;p&gt;Posted June 17, 2008  9:50 AM by Paula Lieberman&lt;/p&gt;</content:encoded>
         <link>http://nielsenhayden.com/makinglight/archives/010341.html#274752</link>
         <guid isPermaLink="true">http://nielsenhayden.com/makinglight/archives/010341.html#274752</guid>
         <pubDate>Tue, 17 Jun 2008 09:50:59 -0500</pubDate>
      </item>
      
      <item>
         <title>The Associated Press wants to charge you $12.50 to quote five words from them -- comment #81 from Paula Lieberman</title>
         <description>comment from Paula Lieberman on 17.Jun.08</description>
         <content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>#61 Michael</p>

<p>Perhaps they're getting their legal advice from Mr Mukasey, and messrs. Scalia, Alito, Roberts, and Thomas, with assistance from ex-STASI interrogators and ex-Soviet Stalinist appartchiks who lost their positions when the USSR came unglued. </p>]]>
	 &lt;p&gt;Posted June 17, 2008  9:54 AM by Paula Lieberman&lt;/p&gt;</content:encoded>
         <link>http://nielsenhayden.com/makinglight/archives/010341.html#274754</link>
         <guid isPermaLink="true">http://nielsenhayden.com/makinglight/archives/010341.html#274754</guid>
         <pubDate>Tue, 17 Jun 2008 09:54:27 -0500</pubDate>
      </item>
      
      <item>
         <title>The Associated Press wants to charge you $12.50 to quote five words from them -- comment #82 from Paula Lieberman</title>
         <description>comment from Paula Lieberman on 17.Jun.08</description>
         <content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>#61 Michael, again</p>

<p>Class action lawsuit time? Is the EFF listening?</p>

<p>Getting the goons disbarred sounds like a suitable start on cluebat application....</p>]]>
	 &lt;p&gt;Posted June 17, 2008  9:57 AM by Paula Lieberman&lt;/p&gt;</content:encoded>
         <link>http://nielsenhayden.com/makinglight/archives/010341.html#274756</link>
         <guid isPermaLink="true">http://nielsenhayden.com/makinglight/archives/010341.html#274756</guid>
         <pubDate>Tue, 17 Jun 2008 09:57:30 -0500</pubDate>
      </item>
      
      <item>
         <title>The Associated Press wants to charge you $12.50 to quote five words from them -- comment #83 from NoSpam</title>
         <description>comment from NoSpam on 17.Jun.08</description>
         <content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Real Tech News notes there are a host of publishing options for web sites, one free.  Still it does not meet "fair use standards" and is basically ridiculous.</p>

<p>http://www.realtechnews.com/posts/5785</p>]]>
	 &lt;p&gt;Posted June 17, 2008 10:29 AM by NoSpam&lt;/p&gt;</content:encoded>
         <link>http://nielsenhayden.com/makinglight/archives/010341.html#274763</link>
         <guid isPermaLink="true">http://nielsenhayden.com/makinglight/archives/010341.html#274763</guid>
         <pubDate>Tue, 17 Jun 2008 10:29:41 -0500</pubDate>
      </item>
      
      <item>
         <title>The Associated Press wants to charge you $12.50 to quote five words from them -- comment #84 from Daniel B</title>
         <description>comment from Daniel B on 17.Jun.08</description>
         <content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Not really private law, as intellectual property really needs a state to be defended properly. </p>]]>
	 &lt;p&gt;Posted June 17, 2008 11:08 AM by Daniel B&lt;/p&gt;</content:encoded>
         <link>http://nielsenhayden.com/makinglight/archives/010341.html#274773</link>
         <guid isPermaLink="true">http://nielsenhayden.com/makinglight/archives/010341.html#274773</guid>
         <pubDate>Tue, 17 Jun 2008 11:08:17 -0500</pubDate>
      </item>
      
      <item>
         <title>The Associated Press wants to charge you $12.50 to quote five words from them -- comment #85 from don delny</title>
         <description>comment from don delny on 17.Jun.08</description>
         <content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>For posterity, the Techmeme front page with Making Light <a href="http://www.techmeme.com/080617/h1115" rel="nofollow">at the top</a> of the AP blog-o-fire-storm.</p>

<p>(Thanks Nigel Rowe, #77 )</p>]]>
	 &lt;p&gt;Posted June 17, 2008 11:26 AM by don delny&lt;/p&gt;</content:encoded>
         <link>http://nielsenhayden.com/makinglight/archives/010341.html#274776</link>
         <guid isPermaLink="true">http://nielsenhayden.com/makinglight/archives/010341.html#274776</guid>
         <pubDate>Tue, 17 Jun 2008 11:26:26 -0500</pubDate>
      </item>
      
      <item>
         <title>The Associated Press wants to charge you $12.50 to quote five words from them -- comment #86 from Michael Roberts</title>
         <description>comment from Michael Roberts on 17.Jun.08</description>
         <content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Paula @82 - barratry only exists if they bring suit.  Hence my prediction that they will not.</p>

<p>I think the court of public opinion is going to resolve this one.  What a load of maroons.</p>]]>
	 &lt;p&gt;Posted June 17, 2008 11:27 AM by Michael Roberts&lt;/p&gt;</content:encoded>
         <link>http://nielsenhayden.com/makinglight/archives/010341.html#274778</link>
         <guid isPermaLink="true">http://nielsenhayden.com/makinglight/archives/010341.html#274778</guid>
         <pubDate>Tue, 17 Jun 2008 11:27:46 -0500</pubDate>
      </item>
      
      <item>
         <title>The Associated Press wants to charge you $12.50 to quote five words from them -- comment #87 from Richard Brandt</title>
         <description>comment from Richard Brandt on 17.Jun.08</description>
         <content:encoded><![CDATA[<p><strong>Teresa</strong> @ 57: <i>I like Paula's idea: denying the AP the right to quote anything you've written or said unless they pay you for it -- say, $12.50 per five words.</i></p>

<p>Especially if they can't demonstrate you used their words on your website without quoting your website.<br />
</p>]]>
	 &lt;p&gt;Posted June 17, 2008 11:47 AM by Richard Brandt&lt;/p&gt;</content:encoded>
         <link>http://nielsenhayden.com/makinglight/archives/010341.html#274787</link>
         <guid isPermaLink="true">http://nielsenhayden.com/makinglight/archives/010341.html#274787</guid>
         <pubDate>Tue, 17 Jun 2008 11:47:32 -0500</pubDate>
      </item>
      
      <item>
         <title>The Associated Press wants to charge you $12.50 to quote five words from them -- comment #88 from Xopher</title>
         <description>comment from Xopher on 17.Jun.08</description>
         <content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>TNH 71: Funny.  As a moon worshipper, I won't get one, but it IS funny.</p>

<p>Scott 73: I was thinking more along the lines of "The Associated Press may not quote me, paraphrase me, or refer to anything I've said or anything anyone else says about me, in any context whatsoever, under any circumstances."  It's as valid as the rights they're asserting, which is to say, not. </p>

<p>Michael 86: If they ever do, should the blogger(s) so victimized immediately file a complaint of barratry against the attorneys who sued?  Who would they file that with?  </p>]]>
	 &lt;p&gt;Posted June 17, 2008 11:54 AM by Xopher&lt;/p&gt;</content:encoded>
         <link>http://nielsenhayden.com/makinglight/archives/010341.html#274792</link>
         <guid isPermaLink="true">http://nielsenhayden.com/makinglight/archives/010341.html#274792</guid>
         <pubDate>Tue, 17 Jun 2008 11:54:40 -0500</pubDate>
      </item>
      
      <item>
         <title>The Associated Press wants to charge you $12.50 to quote five words from them -- comment #89 from Bill Higgins-- Beam Jockey</title>
         <description>comment from Bill Higgins-- Beam Jockey on 17.Jun.08</description>
         <content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Patrick, if you need help blowing up the Moon, <a href="http://www.flickr.com/photos/beamjockey/2452526795/" rel="nofollow">I know just the guy for the job</a>.</p>]]>
	 &lt;p&gt;Posted June 17, 2008 12:19 PM by Bill Higgins-- Beam Jockey&lt;/p&gt;</content:encoded>
         <link>http://nielsenhayden.com/makinglight/archives/010341.html#274803</link>
         <guid isPermaLink="true">http://nielsenhayden.com/makinglight/archives/010341.html#274803</guid>
         <pubDate>Tue, 17 Jun 2008 12:19:29 -0500</pubDate>
      </item>
      
      <item>
         <title>The Associated Press wants to charge you $12.50 to quote five words from them -- comment #90 from Serge</title>
         <description>comment from Serge on 17.Jun.08</description>
         <content:encoded><![CDATA[<p><b>Bill Higgins</b> @ 89... </p>

<p>"There was supposed to be an Earth-shattering kaboom."</p>]]>
	 &lt;p&gt;Posted June 17, 2008 12:35 PM by Serge&lt;/p&gt;</content:encoded>
         <link>http://nielsenhayden.com/makinglight/archives/010341.html#274805</link>
         <guid isPermaLink="true">http://nielsenhayden.com/makinglight/archives/010341.html#274805</guid>
         <pubDate>Tue, 17 Jun 2008 12:35:03 -0500</pubDate>
      </item>
      
      <item>
         <title>The Associated Press wants to charge you $12.50 to quote five words from them -- comment #91 from albatross</title>
         <description>comment from albatross on 17.Jun.08</description>
         <content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Paula #80: </p>

<p>W may have many things in his future, but I feel certain that being paid for his masterful command of the language is not one of them.  </p>]]>
	 &lt;p&gt;Posted June 17, 2008 12:35 PM by albatross&lt;/p&gt;</content:encoded>
         <link>http://nielsenhayden.com/makinglight/archives/010341.html#274806</link>
         <guid isPermaLink="true">http://nielsenhayden.com/makinglight/archives/010341.html#274806</guid>
         <pubDate>Tue, 17 Jun 2008 12:35:57 -0500</pubDate>
      </item>
      
      <item>
         <title>The Associated Press wants to charge you $12.50 to quote five words from them -- comment #92 from Scott Taylor</title>
         <description>comment from Scott Taylor on 17.Jun.08</description>
         <content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Xopher @ 88<br />
<em>Scott 73: I was thinking more along the lines of "The Associated Press may not quote me, paraphrase me, or refer to anything I've said or anything anyone else says about me, in any context whatsoever, under any circumstances." It's as valid as the rights they're asserting, which is to say, not.</em></p>

<p>Nah, I'd rather keep it legal, and keep from giving people ideas about further undermining fair use, copyright, patent, trademark etc. any further than they already have been. </p>

<p>Me? The more bullshit like this gets thrown at the wall, the closer to being a "burn it all down" no-copyright, trademark, or patent protections at all, "information will be free motherfucker - because I will shoot you in the face* if you try and lock it up" type infoanarchist I become. </p>

<p>The assholes at the RIAA, MPAA, Walt Disney, etc. are their own worst fucking enemy - and at this rate, the backlash against them is going to not only undo the bad shit that has happened in the last thirty years, but a lot of the good stuff that the various copyright, patent and trademark laws and regulations were initially put in to foster</p>

<p>*not actually looking to shoot anyone in the face, honest.</p>]]>
	 &lt;p&gt;Posted June 17, 2008 12:42 PM by Scott Taylor&lt;/p&gt;</content:encoded>
         <link>http://nielsenhayden.com/makinglight/archives/010341.html#274809</link>
         <guid isPermaLink="true">http://nielsenhayden.com/makinglight/archives/010341.html#274809</guid>
         <pubDate>Tue, 17 Jun 2008 12:42:25 -0500</pubDate>
      </item>
      
      <item>
         <title>The Associated Press wants to charge you $12.50 to quote five words from them -- comment #93 from Xopher</title>
         <description>comment from Xopher on 17.Jun.08</description>
         <content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I'd like to shoot these guys in the face&mdash;with a water pistol.  Filled with water (fantasies about onion juice notwithstanding).  Harmless, but expressive of my disrespect for them.</p>]]>
	 &lt;p&gt;Posted June 17, 2008  1:38 PM by Xopher&lt;/p&gt;</content:encoded>
         <link>http://nielsenhayden.com/makinglight/archives/010341.html#274829</link>
         <guid isPermaLink="true">http://nielsenhayden.com/makinglight/archives/010341.html#274829</guid>
         <pubDate>Tue, 17 Jun 2008 13:38:35 -0500</pubDate>
      </item>
      
      <item>
         <title>The Associated Press wants to charge you $12.50 to quote five words from them -- comment #94 from Peter</title>
         <description>comment from Peter on 17.Jun.08</description>
         <content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Wait, but AP quotes people for their articles, right? How does it reconcile quotes from newsmakers with its own policy? Does it pay people who agree to be intereviewed?<br />
</p>]]>
	 &lt;p&gt;Posted June 17, 2008  1:40 PM by Peter&lt;/p&gt;</content:encoded>
         <link>http://nielsenhayden.com/makinglight/archives/010341.html#274830</link>
         <guid isPermaLink="true">http://nielsenhayden.com/makinglight/archives/010341.html#274830</guid>
         <pubDate>Tue, 17 Jun 2008 13:40:13 -0500</pubDate>
      </item>
      
      <item>
         <title>The Associated Press wants to charge you $12.50 to quote five words from them -- comment #95 from j h woodyatt</title>
         <description>comment from j h woodyatt on 17.Jun.08</description>
         <content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>"See also Virgin Media claiming the right to dictate to private citizens in Britain how they’re allowed to configure their home routers"</p>

<p>Oh, the stories I'm contractually obligated to refrain from telling...</p>

<p>Suffice to say that some people should thank their lucky stars they're still able to configure their home routers at all.</p>]]>
	 &lt;p&gt;Posted June 17, 2008  2:26 PM by j h woodyatt&lt;/p&gt;</content:encoded>
         <link>http://nielsenhayden.com/makinglight/archives/010341.html#274843</link>
         <guid isPermaLink="true">http://nielsenhayden.com/makinglight/archives/010341.html#274843</guid>
         <pubDate>Tue, 17 Jun 2008 14:26:34 -0500</pubDate>
      </item>
      
      <item>
         <title>The Associated Press wants to charge you $12.50 to quote five words from them -- comment #96 from B. England</title>
         <description>comment from B. England on 17.Jun.08</description>
         <content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Suck it AP! You bunch of morons! And you can quote me for FREE!</p>]]>
	 &lt;p&gt;Posted June 17, 2008  2:54 PM by B. England&lt;/p&gt;</content:encoded>
         <link>http://nielsenhayden.com/makinglight/archives/010341.html#274847</link>
         <guid isPermaLink="true">http://nielsenhayden.com/makinglight/archives/010341.html#274847</guid>
         <pubDate>Tue, 17 Jun 2008 14:54:02 -0500</pubDate>
      </item>
      
      <item>
         <title>The Associated Press wants to charge you $12.50 to quote five words from them -- comment #97 from Thief</title>
         <description>comment from Thief on 17.Jun.08</description>
         <content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Hamas says it's reached cease-fire with Israel </p>

<p>By IBRAHIM BARZAK <br />
Associated Press Writer<br />
 </p>

<p>AP Photo/EYAD BABA <br />
 <br />
 <br />
 <br />
 <br />
Advertisement<br />
 <br />
 <br />
  <br />
 <br />
Multimedia <br />
 Palestinian Old Guard Remains Defiant <br />
 Egypt Starts to Corral Gaza Residents <br />
 My Jerusalem: Residents Sound off on City's Future <br />
 <br />
 <br />
Latest News <br />
Hamas says it's reached cease-fire with Israel <br />
Israel-Syria talks in Turkey end </p>

<p>Authorities: Israel kills 3 Gaza militants </p>

<p>Israel to decide on prisoner swap with Lebanon </p>

<p>West Bank poverty pushes boys into work force </p>

<p> <br />
 <br />
PHOTO GALLERY <br />
 <br />
Conflict in the Middle East<br />
 <br />
 <br />
Buy AP Photo Reprints <br />
 <br />
 <br />
 <br />
 </p>

<p> <br />
 <br />
Your Questions Answered <br />
 <br />
Ask AP: Mortgage woes, a man once held in Syria <br />
 <br />
 <br />
 <br />
Interactives <br />
 Israel Celebrates 60th Anniversary <br />
 <br />
 <br />
 <br />
Interactives <br />
 Children Toil as Laborers in Palestine <br />
 <br />
 <br />
 <br />
GAZA CITY, Gaza Strip (AP) -- Gaza's Hamas rulers on Tuesday said they have reached a long-awaited cease-fire with Israel meant to end months of Palestinian assaults on Israeli border towns and bruising Israeli retaliation.</p>

<p>The announcement came shortly after Egypt, which has been trying to broker the truce for months, said the cease-fire would go into effect on Thursday. Israel refused to confirm a deal, but said a "new reality" would take hold if Palestinian attacks end.</p>

<p>In a last-minute jolt, Israeli aircraft attacked three targets in the southern Gaza Strip. One of the airstrikes destroyed a car, killing six militants inside.</p>

<p>A large crowd gathered around the car's smoldering remains, and a puddle of blood was visible on the asphalt. Gaza militants then fired four mortar shells at Israel, the first of the day, the military said. No one was hurt.</p>

<p>Hamas officials accused Israel of trying to undermine the truce, but said they would not let the violence derail the Egyptian efforts.</p>

<p>"We are going to commit ourselves to the start time that Egypt is going to declare regarding the calm," said Hamas spokesman Sami Abu Zuhri. However, the group's television station said the movement would respond to "any Zionist aggression," underscoring the delicate situation.</p>

<p>Egypt's powerful intelligence chief, Omar Suleiman, has been meeting separately with Israeli and Hamas officials for months in hopes of brokering a truce.</p>

<p>Israel has been seeking a halt to rocket attacks launched from Gaza nearly every day, an end to Hamas' weapons buildup, and the release of an Israeli soldier held by Hamas for two years.</p>

<p>Hamas, meanwhile, wants an end to Israel's military activity in Gaza and the lifting of an Israeli blockade that has caused widespread destitution in the already impoverished coastal strip.</p>

<p>In Washington, the State Department declined to confirm reports of a truce, but said it was supportive of efforts to bring calm to Gaza and southern Israel while insisting that Hamas remained a terrorist organization.</p>

<p>"We believe that establishing calm in Gaza and elsewhere is a good thing and we're supportive of Egyptian efforts and other efforts to achieve this," deputy spokesman Tom Casey told reporters.</p>

<p>"But saying you have a loaded gun to my head but you are not going to fire it today is far different than taking the gun down, locking it up and saying you're not going to use it again," he said. "Even if this is in fact a true report, it hardly takes Hamas out of the terrorism business."<br />
 <br />
</p>]]>
	 &lt;p&gt;Posted June 17, 2008  3:17 PM by Thief&lt;/p&gt;</content:encoded>
         <link>http://nielsenhayden.com/makinglight/archives/010341.html#274855</link>
         <guid isPermaLink="true">http://nielsenhayden.com/makinglight/archives/010341.html#274855</guid>
         <pubDate>Tue, 17 Jun 2008 15:17:53 -0500</pubDate>
      </item>
      
      <item>
         <title>The Associated Press wants to charge you $12.50 to quote five words from them -- comment #98 from Michael Roberts</title>
         <description>comment from Michael Roberts on 17.Jun.08</description>
         <content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>So I asked the EFF about the legality of running copyrighted text through an automated transformation to evade copyright.  They answered with a link to their "Rights of Bloggers", which is actually probably a pretty good answer, except it doesn't cover automated transformation.</p>

<p>Even running an article through Babelfish Eng>Ger>Eng would be sufficiently obfuscating -- and quick.  I think maybe I'll do that as a version 0.1.</p>]]>
	 &lt;p&gt;Posted June 17, 2008  3:29 PM by Michael Roberts&lt;/p&gt;</content:encoded>
         <link>http://nielsenhayden.com/makinglight/archives/010341.html#274858</link>
         <guid isPermaLink="true">http://nielsenhayden.com/makinglight/archives/010341.html#274858</guid>
         <pubDate>Tue, 17 Jun 2008 15:29:02 -0500</pubDate>
      </item>
      
      <item>
         <title>The Associated Press wants to charge you $12.50 to quote five words from them -- comment #99 from Michael Roberts</title>
         <description>comment from Michael Roberts on 17.Jun.08</description>
         <content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Well, no, I should have <a href="http://www.vivtek.com/toonbots/allyourbase.html" rel="nofollow">known better</a> - this is a tad overobfuscated:</p>

<blockquote>
Al Gore forms its beginning on the president election campaign 2008 to the support Barack Obama. Gore appeared with the Democratic presidential candidate Monday night at a rauen collection at Detroit' Arena s-Joe Lewis. Its speech was partial label, partial blistering attack on president Bush.
</blockquote>]]>
	 &lt;p&gt;Posted June 17, 2008  3:34 PM by Michael Roberts&lt;/p&gt;</content:encoded>
         <link>http://nielsenhayden.com/makinglight/archives/010341.html#274859</link>
         <guid isPermaLink="true">http://nielsenhayden.com/makinglight/archives/010341.html#274859</guid>
         <pubDate>Tue, 17 Jun 2008 15:34:45 -0500</pubDate>
      </item>
      
      <item>
         <title>The Associated Press wants to charge you $12.50 to quote five words from them -- comment #100 from Roelof Goudriaan</title>
         <description>comment from Roelof Goudriaan on 17.Jun.08</description>
         <content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Seeing the number of AP stories, it's a good statistical bet that anybody who has posted more than forty words here has used some five words in the same order as some AP story, so you'd  better all pay up that $12.50 ... <br />
oh darn, that now includes ME!</p>]]>
	 &lt;p&gt;Posted June 17, 2008  3:36 PM by Roelof Goudriaan&lt;/p&gt;</content:encoded>
         <link>http://nielsenhayden.com/makinglight/archives/010341.html#274860</link>
         <guid isPermaLink="true">http://nielsenhayden.com/makinglight/archives/010341.html#274860</guid>
         <pubDate>Tue, 17 Jun 2008 15:36:12 -0500</pubDate>
      </item>
      
      <item>
         <title>The Associated Press wants to charge you $12.50 to quote five words from them -- comment #101 from Joel Polowin</title>
         <description>comment from Joel Polowin on 17.Jun.08</description>
         <content:encoded><![CDATA[<p><i>it's a good statistical bet that anybody who has posted more than forty words here has used some five words in the same order as some AP story</i></p>

<p>Especially if both are quoting some other source.<br />
</p>]]>
	 &lt;p&gt;Posted June 17, 2008  3:42 PM by Joel Polowin&lt;/p&gt;</content:encoded>
         <link>http://nielsenhayden.com/makinglight/archives/010341.html#274862</link>
         <guid isPermaLink="true">http://nielsenhayden.com/makinglight/archives/010341.html#274862</guid>
         <pubDate>Tue, 17 Jun 2008 15:42:06 -0500</pubDate>
      </item>
      
      <item>
         <title>The Associated Press wants to charge you $12.50 to quote five words from them -- comment #102 from Adam Fulford</title>
         <description>comment from Adam Fulford on 17.Jun.08</description>
         <content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>The AP's reputation is already in a shambles, and rightly so. I invite you to express your sentiments towards AP at FascistMedia.com. I'll just paraphrase AP when exposing its fascist agenda on FascistMedia.com, when trashing their propaganda and corporate sycophants disseminating it.  It was bloggers like bradblog.com and blackboxvoting.org that exposed how democracy had been compromised and votes could be rigged on electronic voting machines, as every major university computer science department confirmed, while the fascist war-profiteering Associated Press utterly failed to do so.  Now, the Associated Press is aiding and abetting war criminals with its blackout of the 35 Articles of Impeachment.  The good news is that AP IS QUICKLY BECOMING OBSOLETE.  Bye bye AP.  Welcome Rawstory. com. I invite you to trash AP at FascistMedia.com</p>]]>
	 &lt;p&gt;Posted June 17, 2008  3:48 PM by Adam Fulford&lt;/p&gt;</content:encoded>
         <link>http://nielsenhayden.com/makinglight/archives/010341.html#274863</link>
         <guid isPermaLink="true">http://nielsenhayden.com/makinglight/archives/010341.html#274863</guid>
         <pubDate>Tue, 17 Jun 2008 15:48:35 -0500</pubDate>
      </item>
      
      <item>
         <title>The Associated Press wants to charge you $12.50 to quote five words from them -- comment #103 from P J Evans</title>
         <description>comment from P J Evans on 17.Jun.08</description>
         <content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>#102<br />
Blogpimping? In overblown terms?</p>]]>
	 &lt;p&gt;Posted June 17, 2008  3:53 PM by P J Evans&lt;/p&gt;</content:encoded>
         <link>http://nielsenhayden.com/makinglight/archives/010341.html#274864</link>
         <guid isPermaLink="true">http://nielsenhayden.com/makinglight/archives/010341.html#274864</guid>
         <pubDate>Tue, 17 Jun 2008 15:53:39 -0500</pubDate>
      </item>
      
      <item>
         <title>The Associated Press wants to charge you $12.50 to quote five words from them -- comment #104 from Patrick Nielsen Hayden</title>
         <description>comment from Patrick Nielsen Hayden on 17.Jun.08</description>
         <content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>"The people are rebelling!  Quick, run to the head of the parade!"</p>]]>
	 &lt;p&gt;Posted June 17, 2008  3:56 PM by Patrick Nielsen Hayden&lt;/p&gt;</content:encoded>
         <link>http://nielsenhayden.com/makinglight/archives/010341.html#274865</link>
         <guid isPermaLink="true">http://nielsenhayden.com/makinglight/archives/010341.html#274865</guid>
         <pubDate>Tue, 17 Jun 2008 15:56:00 -0500</pubDate>
      </item>
      
      <item>
         <title>The Associated Press wants to charge you $12.50 to quote five words from them -- comment #105 from Andrew</title>
         <description>comment from Andrew on 17.Jun.08</description>
         <content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Do we know how at the AP is spearheading this little operation?</p>]]>
	 &lt;p&gt;Posted June 17, 2008  3:59 PM by Andrew&lt;/p&gt;</content:encoded>
         <link>http://nielsenhayden.com/makinglight/archives/010341.html#274868</link>
         <guid isPermaLink="true">http://nielsenhayden.com/makinglight/archives/010341.html#274868</guid>
         <pubDate>Tue, 17 Jun 2008 15:59:27 -0500</pubDate>
      </item>
      
      <item>
         <title>The Associated Press wants to charge you $12.50 to quote five words from them -- comment #106 from Marie</title>
         <description>comment from Marie on 17.Jun.08</description>
         <content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>The The The The The</p>

<p>Am I required to pay $12.50 for this?</p>]]>
	 &lt;p&gt;Posted June 17, 2008  4:02 PM by Marie&lt;/p&gt;</content:encoded>
         <link>http://nielsenhayden.com/makinglight/archives/010341.html#274869</link>
         <guid isPermaLink="true">http://nielsenhayden.com/makinglight/archives/010341.html#274869</guid>
         <pubDate>Tue, 17 Jun 2008 16:02:29 -0500</pubDate>
      </item>
      
      <item>
         <title>The Associated Press wants to charge you $12.50 to quote five words from them -- comment #107 from clew</title>
         <description>comment from clew on 17.Jun.08</description>
         <content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>#84, Daniel B: No, I think online intellectual property is well-fitted for the law of the seas circa 1550 CE... definite pirates; state-sponsored pirates; well-armed traders; unprepared coastal towns invaded, burned and taxed; pirates so successful at taxing that they become states; and, of course, VOC and John Company. </p>

<p>After all, RIAA and Sony and gang want to be able to rootkit or DOS anyone they suspect of stealing their IP. Nothing for the state to look at there!</p>]]>
	 &lt;p&gt;Posted June 17, 2008  4:05 PM by clew&lt;/p&gt;</content:encoded>
         <link>http://nielsenhayden.com/makinglight/archives/010341.html#274870</link>
         <guid isPermaLink="true">http://nielsenhayden.com/makinglight/archives/010341.html#274870</guid>
         <pubDate>Tue, 17 Jun 2008 16:05:24 -0500</pubDate>
      </item>
      
      <item>
         <title>The Associated Press wants to charge you $12.50 to quote five words from them -- comment #108 from Stoic</title>
         <description>comment from Stoic on 17.Jun.08</description>
         <content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>We are no longer citizens, we are consumers. </p>]]>
	 &lt;p&gt;Posted June 17, 2008  5:19 PM by Stoic&lt;/p&gt;</content:encoded>
         <link>http://nielsenhayden.com/makinglight/archives/010341.html#274896</link>
         <guid isPermaLink="true">http://nielsenhayden.com/makinglight/archives/010341.html#274896</guid>
         <pubDate>Tue, 17 Jun 2008 17:19:25 -0500</pubDate>
      </item>
      
      <item>
         <title>The Associated Press wants to charge you $12.50 to quote five words from them -- comment #109 from j-m</title>
         <description>comment from j-m on 17.Jun.08</description>
         <content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>AP has become a protector of McInsanebush and bushchimpy regime. I guess they have forgotten that they are part of the Free Press. Anything the press reports publicly can be used WITHOUT A FEE. Because we do not have people within the bushchimpy regime doing their jobs and prosecuting criminals, the AP has joined the criminal ranks. Boycott their sponsors. Stand up to the AP and expose their criminalities. This is War against corporate media whores!</p>]]>
	 &lt;p&gt;Posted June 17, 2008  5:22 PM by j-m&lt;/p&gt;</content:encoded>
         <link>http://nielsenhayden.com/makinglight/archives/010341.html#274897</link>
         <guid isPermaLink="true">http://nielsenhayden.com/makinglight/archives/010341.html#274897</guid>
         <pubDate>Tue, 17 Jun 2008 17:22:06 -0500</pubDate>
      </item>
      
      <item>
         <title>The Associated Press wants to charge you $12.50 to quote five words from them -- comment #110 from Tom Marshall</title>
         <description>comment from Tom Marshall on 17.Jun.08</description>
         <content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>in their dreams</p>]]>
	 &lt;p&gt;Posted June 17, 2008  5:42 PM by Tom Marshall&lt;/p&gt;</content:encoded>
         <link>http://nielsenhayden.com/makinglight/archives/010341.html#274906</link>
         <guid isPermaLink="true">http://nielsenhayden.com/makinglight/archives/010341.html#274906</guid>
         <pubDate>Tue, 17 Jun 2008 17:42:33 -0500</pubDate>
      </item>
      
      <item>
         <title>The Associated Press wants to charge you $12.50 to quote five words from them -- comment #111 from skyreader7</title>
         <description>comment from skyreader7 on 17.Jun.08</description>
         <content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>This is what you get under corporate rule. Everything is privatized. I guess next we'll have to buy a subscription to use the English language. </p>

<p>As I understand it, there has already been an attempt to privatize water in one South American country that almost caused a revolution due to the ridiculous prices that were to be charged. Keep this up corporate America as you are killing the goose that laid the golden egg. </p>]]>
	 &lt;p&gt;Posted June 17, 2008  6:28 PM by skyreader7&lt;/p&gt;</content:encoded>
         <link>http://nielsenhayden.com/makinglight/archives/010341.html#274912</link>
         <guid isPermaLink="true">http://nielsenhayden.com/makinglight/archives/010341.html#274912</guid>
         <pubDate>Tue, 17 Jun 2008 18:28:14 -0500</pubDate>
      </item>
      
      <item>
         <title>The Associated Press wants to charge you $12.50 to quote five words from them -- comment #112 from Ron</title>
         <description>comment from Ron on 17.Jun.08</description>
         <content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>AP (or anyone else) cannot support a claim to copyright for five or thirty-nine words.  37 CFR 202.1 is a regulation that says a single word, or group of words, REGARDLESS HOW ORIGINAL, cannot be copyrighted.  See "Planesi vs. Peters" in the Supreme Court - Petition Denied.  I sued on a wholly original name ("Kingmaster") created in 1984.  The Supreme Court said the Appellate Court's stance that a single word, or group of words, are not copyrightable. This is not supported by prior judgements, but is only "Court Construction".  Only a large work, with "substantial copying as proof" is subject to copyright protection.  Anything in the way of a few words, a slogan, a catching series of words, etc., is NOT eligible for copyright.  Under the current "system", large companies like AP can steal original material from the most creative people on this planet--those who start life very poor and survive from that point on by being intelligent in their choices and learn to be intelligent in their work (so they can keep a job instead of losing it immediately to some "priviledged bozo").  So now AP wants to see a "change" in copyright on that issue; indeed, they simply want to DECLARE the change as existent?  I say, let me know if it catches on at the Supreme Court level.  My six player chess game (now named ImmortalStarMasters) could use a new original name--with copyright protection.</p>]]>
	 &lt;p&gt;Posted June 17, 2008  6:32 PM by Ron&lt;/p&gt;</content:encoded>
         <link>http://nielsenhayden.com/makinglight/archives/010341.html#274913</link>
         <guid isPermaLink="true">http://nielsenhayden.com/makinglight/archives/010341.html#274913</guid>
         <pubDate>Tue, 17 Jun 2008 18:32:03 -0500</pubDate>
      </item>
      
      <item>
         <title>The Associated Press wants to charge you $12.50 to quote five words from them -- comment #113 from Xopher</title>
         <description>comment from Xopher on 17.Jun.08</description>
         <content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Ron - surely trademark would have been the right system for your game's name?</p>]]>
	 &lt;p&gt;Posted June 17, 2008  7:08 PM by Xopher&lt;/p&gt;</content:encoded>
         <link>http://nielsenhayden.com/makinglight/archives/010341.html#274915</link>
         <guid isPermaLink="true">http://nielsenhayden.com/makinglight/archives/010341.html#274915</guid>
         <pubDate>Tue, 17 Jun 2008 19:08:55 -0500</pubDate>
      </item>
      
      <item>
         <title>The Associated Press wants to charge you $12.50 to quote five words from them -- comment #114 from web design company</title>
         <description>comment from web design company on 17.Jun.08</description>
         <content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Uh.. no.. Is called "fair use" under copyright laws.. Likewise you can "Offer" a fee/fraud and fool someone into paying for something that they don't need to. That's okay.. It is okay to take advantage of a persons ignorance of the law..</p>]]>
	 &lt;p&gt;Posted June 17, 2008  7:55 PM by web design company&lt;/p&gt;</content:encoded>
         <link>http://nielsenhayden.com/makinglight/archives/010341.html#274930</link>
         <guid isPermaLink="true">http://nielsenhayden.com/makinglight/archives/010341.html#274930</guid>
         <pubDate>Tue, 17 Jun 2008 19:55:34 -0500</pubDate>
      </item>
      
      <item>
         <title>The Associated Press wants to charge you $12.50 to quote five words from them -- comment #115 from TheIndyVoice.com</title>
         <description>comment from TheIndyVoice.com on 17.Jun.08</description>
         <content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>These big, dumb, bloated companies never seem to learn.  I say let 'em go for it.  It'll just wind up hurting them in the end.</p>]]>
	 &lt;p&gt;Posted June 17, 2008  8:24 PM by TheIndyVoice.com&lt;/p&gt;</content:encoded>
         <link>http://nielsenhayden.com/makinglight/archives/010341.html#274935</link>
         <guid isPermaLink="true">http://nielsenhayden.com/makinglight/archives/010341.html#274935</guid>
         <pubDate>Tue, 17 Jun 2008 20:24:51 -0500</pubDate>
      </item>
      
      <item>
         <title>The Associated Press wants to charge you $12.50 to quote five words from them -- comment #116 from ChrisH</title>
         <description>comment from ChrisH on 17.Jun.08</description>
         <content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>How much do they want for two words?  And you can quote me, free of charge.</p>]]>
	 &lt;p&gt;Posted June 17, 2008  8:38 PM by ChrisH&lt;/p&gt;</content:encoded>
         <link>http://nielsenhayden.com/makinglight/archives/010341.html#274936</link>
         <guid isPermaLink="true">http://nielsenhayden.com/makinglight/archives/010341.html#274936</guid>
         <pubDate>Tue, 17 Jun 2008 20:38:23 -0500</pubDate>
      </item>
      
      <item>
         <title>The Associated Press wants to charge you $12.50 to quote five words from them -- comment #117 from Joel Polowin</title>
         <description>comment from Joel Polowin on 17.Jun.08</description>
         <content:encoded><![CDATA[<p><i>Likewise you can "Offer" a fee/fraud and fool someone into paying for something that they don't need to. That's okay.. It is okay to take advantage of a persons ignorance of the law.</i></p>

<p>No.  It's not "okay".</p>

<p>Full stop.<br />
</p>]]>
	 &lt;p&gt;Posted June 17, 2008  8:46 PM by Joel Polowin&lt;/p&gt;</content:encoded>
         <link>http://nielsenhayden.com/makinglight/archives/010341.html#274937</link>
         <guid isPermaLink="true">http://nielsenhayden.com/makinglight/archives/010341.html#274937</guid>
         <pubDate>Tue, 17 Jun 2008 20:46:32 -0500</pubDate>
      </item>
      
      <item>
         <title>The Associated Press wants to charge you $12.50 to quote five words from them -- comment #118 from Michael Roberts</title>
         <description>comment from Michael Roberts on 17.Jun.08</description>
         <content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I'm pretty sure that any "taking advantage of a person's ignorance" is something that we all learn is not OK by the age of about 6.  The fact that this lesson's unlearning has trickled down from the boardroom into casual conversation is a sad sign for our society.</p>]]>
	 &lt;p&gt;Posted June 17, 2008  9:12 PM by Michael Roberts&lt;/p&gt;</content:encoded>
         <link>http://nielsenhayden.com/makinglight/archives/010341.html#274940</link>
         <guid isPermaLink="true">http://nielsenhayden.com/makinglight/archives/010341.html#274940</guid>
         <pubDate>Tue, 17 Jun 2008 21:12:25 -0500</pubDate>
      </item>
      
      <item>
         <title>The Associated Press wants to charge you $12.50 to quote five words from them -- comment #119 from Xopher</title>
         <description>comment from Xopher on 17.Jun.08</description>
         <content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>web design company, where on Earth did you get that idea?  Where did you come from, anyway?  And what on Earth do you mean by "okay" in this context?  I can't imagine how you could say a thing like that.</p>]]>
	 &lt;p&gt;Posted June 17, 2008 10:11 PM by Xopher&lt;/p&gt;</content:encoded>
         <link>http://nielsenhayden.com/makinglight/archives/010341.html#274951</link>
         <guid isPermaLink="true">http://nielsenhayden.com/makinglight/archives/010341.html#274951</guid>
         <pubDate>Tue, 17 Jun 2008 22:11:38 -0500</pubDate>
      </item>
      
      <item>
         <title>The Associated Press wants to charge you $12.50 to quote five words from them -- comment #120 from heresiarch</title>
         <description>comment from heresiarch on 18.Jun.08</description>
         <content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Clearly web design company is a corporate AI designed to construct the most pro-corporate moral/legal* code possible, then attempt to desseminate that meme through the consumer base--kind of like feeding cows tranquilizers.</p>

<p>Good try, web design company! But you might want to pick a more human-sounding name next time, like Sue or Trogdor.</p>

<p>*Oh, <i>I</i> see the distinction. Corporations don't. </p>]]>
	 &lt;p&gt;Posted June 18, 2008 12:00 AM by heresiarch&lt;/p&gt;</content:encoded>
         <link>http://nielsenhayden.com/makinglight/archives/010341.html#274969</link>
         <guid isPermaLink="true">http://nielsenhayden.com/makinglight/archives/010341.html#274969</guid>
         <pubDate>Wed, 18 Jun 2008 00:00:50 -0500</pubDate>
      </item>
      
      <item>
         <title>The Associated Press wants to charge you $12.50 to quote five words from them -- comment #121 from Lance Weber</title>
         <description>comment from Lance Weber on 18.Jun.08</description>
         <content:encoded><![CDATA[<p><b>@web design company:</b> Your post violates several state laws where this blog is hosted including conspiracy to commit fraud. I can smooth things over with the hosting company for you by making sure the proper disclaimer and release forms are filled out and filed correctly. Please contact me to discuss my fee arrangements - you'll need to act quickly to keep this from blowing up.</p>

<p>------<br />
<i>Gur cerprqvat fgngrzrag jnf svygrerq guebhtu zl Fnepnmzb-Oynfgre 3000 Oybt Erfcbafr Flancgvp Raunapre</i><br />
 <br />
</p>]]>
	 &lt;p&gt;Posted June 18, 2008 12:06 AM by Lance Weber&lt;/p&gt;</content:encoded>
         <link>http://nielsenhayden.com/makinglight/archives/010341.html#274970</link>
         <guid isPermaLink="true">http://nielsenhayden.com/makinglight/archives/010341.html#274970</guid>
         <pubDate>Wed, 18 Jun 2008 00:06:32 -0500</pubDate>
      </item>
      
      <item>
         <title>The Associated Press wants to charge you $12.50 to quote five words from them -- comment #122 from R. M. Koske</title>
         <description>comment from R. M. Koske on 18.Jun.08</description>
         <content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I'm behind, so I haven't read any of the comments in the thread, sorry.*  I'll probably catch up in the next hour or two, but I ran across something related to this that is so unbelievable I had to share. </p>

<p>I was looking for info on an AP article** about voters going online to find the full texts of speeches, and therefore circumventing the soundbite, and I found <a href="http://technology.timesonline.co.uk/tol/news/tech_and_web/the_web/article4163512.ece?openComment=true" rel="nofollow">an article related to this story.</a></p>

<p>"If a student is caught lifting text from a website and claiming it as his own, that’s grounds for failure. End of story...If only such a punishment loomed in the professional world."</p>

<p>That's either unbelievably blatant spin, or unbelievably blatant "not doing your homework."  Argh!  Is TimesOnline a piece of trash, usually?</p>

<p>The article is claiming that AP is just trying to stop plagiarism.  (<i>Can</i> you plagiarase if you credit the source?  Isn't that different from unauthorized reproduction, which is really the issue here?)</p>

<p><br />
*Which is ruder, not reading, or admitting that you haven't?</p>

<p>**My work has TVs with an AP crawl in the elevator lobby and occasionally a story catches my eye and I go digging.</p>]]>
	 &lt;p&gt;Posted June 18, 2008 12:27 PM by R. M. Koske&lt;/p&gt;</content:encoded>
         <link>http://nielsenhayden.com/makinglight/archives/010341.html#275127</link>
         <guid isPermaLink="true">http://nielsenhayden.com/makinglight/archives/010341.html#275127</guid>
         <pubDate>Wed, 18 Jun 2008 12:27:08 -0500</pubDate>
      </item>
      
      <item>
         <title>The Associated Press wants to charge you $12.50 to quote five words from them -- comment #123 from Mikester</title>
         <description>comment from Mikester on 18.Jun.08</description>
         <content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>@ Debbie #16:<br />
How is "criticism and comment" distinguished from "analysis and discussion" for fair use purposes, in your professional opinion?</p>]]>
	 &lt;p&gt;Posted June 18, 2008 12:28 PM by Mikester&lt;/p&gt;</content:encoded>
         <link>http://nielsenhayden.com/makinglight/archives/010341.html#275130</link>
         <guid isPermaLink="true">http://nielsenhayden.com/makinglight/archives/010341.html#275130</guid>
         <pubDate>Wed, 18 Jun 2008 12:28:15 -0500</pubDate>
      </item>
      
      <item>
         <title>The Associated Press wants to charge you $12.50 to quote five words from them -- comment #124 from Liberty Belle</title>
         <description>comment from Liberty Belle on 18.Jun.08</description>
         <content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I am starting up a new publication and was in process of getting quotes from news services to carry an RSS feed.</p>

<p>I am going to call AP back and tell them I'm so outraged at their new policy of attempting to extort money for what should be free under fair use that I will NOT be purchasing their service, and will instead buy UPI's.</p>]]>
	 &lt;p&gt;Posted June 18, 2008 12:44 PM by Liberty Belle&lt;/p&gt;</content:encoded>
         <link>http://nielsenhayden.com/makinglight/archives/010341.html#275136</link>
         <guid isPermaLink="true">http://nielsenhayden.com/makinglight/archives/010341.html#275136</guid>
         <pubDate>Wed, 18 Jun 2008 12:44:29 -0500</pubDate>
      </item>
      
      <item>
         <title>The Associated Press wants to charge you $12.50 to quote five words from them -- comment #125 from R. M. Koske</title>
         <description>comment from R. M. Koske on 18.Jun.08</description>
         <content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Now I've caught up on this thread (off to read the newest thread on all this next) and I'm discovering that I might be more sympathetic to the writer in my post #122 than I thought.  </p>

<p>While AP is patently being stupid in the general case on this, the articles they're citing as plagiarism at the Drudge Retort probably *wouldn't* pass a teacher's no-plagiarism filter.  Lots of the discussion mentions the number of words DR is quoting, but what they're not mentioning is the total number of words in the DR posts, nor the lack of indications which bits are AP quotes.  One of the DR posts quotes 51 words from AP, and is 51 words long.  A post I count as having 52 words quotes 49 of those from AP.  There doesn't seem to be an indication that those 49 words are a quotation.  Maybe I'm supposed to know that's how Drudge works?  Is it plagiarism if you know how it works but I don't and I think you wrote it when you didn't?</p>

<p>I feel like I'm missing something.  I'd say what DR is doing is pretty clearly wrong.  AP is taking a pretty clearly wrong situation and using it to cut their own throat.  <br />
<a href="http://www.cadenhead.org/workbench/ap-dmca-summary" rel="nofollow">Summary of the alleged infringement</a></p>

<p>Gotta say, I'm disappointed.  I don't like having to feel the least bit of sympathy for APs stupid position.</p>]]>
	 &lt;p&gt;Posted June 18, 2008  1:44 PM by R. M. Koske&lt;/p&gt;</content:encoded>
         <link>http://nielsenhayden.com/makinglight/archives/010341.html#275162</link>
         <guid isPermaLink="true">http://nielsenhayden.com/makinglight/archives/010341.html#275162</guid>
         <pubDate>Wed, 18 Jun 2008 13:44:17 -0500</pubDate>
      </item>
      
      <item>
         <title>The Associated Press wants to charge you $12.50 to quote five words from them -- comment #126 from Susan Bryan</title>
         <description>comment from Susan Bryan on 18.Jun.08</description>
         <content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Doesn't Rev. Moon now own A.P.?  If so, that would<br />
explain EVERYTHING.</p>]]>
	 &lt;p&gt;Posted June 18, 2008  6:06 PM by Susan Bryan&lt;/p&gt;</content:encoded>
         <link>http://nielsenhayden.com/makinglight/archives/010341.html#275289</link>
         <guid isPermaLink="true">http://nielsenhayden.com/makinglight/archives/010341.html#275289</guid>
         <pubDate>Wed, 18 Jun 2008 18:06:48 -0500</pubDate>
      </item>
      
      <item>
         <title>The Associated Press wants to charge you $12.50 to quote five words from them -- comment #127 from P J Evans</title>
         <description>comment from P J Evans on 18.Jun.08</description>
         <content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>#126<br />
I think he bought UPI, actually.</p>]]>
	 &lt;p&gt;Posted June 18, 2008  6:16 PM by P J Evans&lt;/p&gt;</content:encoded>
         <link>http://nielsenhayden.com/makinglight/archives/010341.html#275293</link>
         <guid isPermaLink="true">http://nielsenhayden.com/makinglight/archives/010341.html#275293</guid>
         <pubDate>Wed, 18 Jun 2008 18:16:27 -0500</pubDate>
      </item>
      
      <item>
         <title>The Associated Press wants to charge you $12.50 to quote five words from them -- comment #128 from Xopher</title>
         <description>comment from Xopher on 18.Jun.08</description>
         <content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>R. M. 122: <i>My work has TVs with an AP crawl in the elevator lobby</i></p>

<p>Despite the topic of this thread, for some reason* my brain tried to read 'TVs' as "transvestites," 'AP' as "antipersonnel weapon," and 'crawl' as a verb.  Oh, and it was taking 'My work' as meaning "the opus I'm in the process of creating" rather than "the company I work for."</p>

<p>I snapped out of it very quickly, I'm happy to say, but the image of men in dresses, each armed with a scary-looking gunlike object, grimly crawling through an elevator lobby was vivid and bizarre.</p>

<p>*probably exhaustion</p>]]>
	 &lt;p&gt;Posted June 18, 2008  7:43 PM by Xopher&lt;/p&gt;</content:encoded>
         <link>http://nielsenhayden.com/makinglight/archives/010341.html#275314</link>
         <guid isPermaLink="true">http://nielsenhayden.com/makinglight/archives/010341.html#275314</guid>
         <pubDate>Wed, 18 Jun 2008 19:43:42 -0500</pubDate>
      </item>
      
      <item>
         <title>The Associated Press wants to charge you $12.50 to quote five words from them -- comment #129 from R. M. Koske</title>
         <description>comment from R. M. Koske on 19.Jun.08</description>
         <content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>#128, Xopher -</p>

<p>Wow.  Vivid and bizarre are good words for it, all right.  As I'm read your description, I parsed it one bit at a time, so I've got a mental image of men in dresses, each armed with a scary gunlike object, crawling through the elevator lobby a few feet from here.  </p>

<p>Fun!</p>

<p>Hope you get some rest, and that it was entertaining as well as bizarre.</p>]]>
	 &lt;p&gt;Posted June 19, 2008  9:03 AM by R. M. Koske&lt;/p&gt;</content:encoded>
         <link>http://nielsenhayden.com/makinglight/archives/010341.html#275466</link>
         <guid isPermaLink="true">http://nielsenhayden.com/makinglight/archives/010341.html#275466</guid>
         <pubDate>Thu, 19 Jun 2008 09:03:13 -0500</pubDate>
      </item>
      
      <item>
         <title>The Associated Press wants to charge you $12.50 to quote five words from them -- comment #130 from Fragano Ledgister</title>
         <description>comment from Fragano Ledgister on 19.Jun.08</description>
         <content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>R.M. Koske #129: If you work in Midtown Atlanta, the  possibility of men in dresses is definitely non-zero (on Ponce it goes up significantly). Since this is Atlanta, their having guns is a distinct possibility. </p>]]>
	 &lt;p&gt;Posted June 19, 2008  9:35 AM by Fragano Ledgister&lt;/p&gt;</content:encoded>
         <link>http://nielsenhayden.com/makinglight/archives/010341.html#275476</link>
         <guid isPermaLink="true">http://nielsenhayden.com/makinglight/archives/010341.html#275476</guid>
         <pubDate>Thu, 19 Jun 2008 09:35:50 -0500</pubDate>
      </item>
      
      <item>
         <title>The Associated Press wants to charge you $12.50 to quote five words from them -- comment #131 from Person</title>
         <description>comment from Person on 19.Jun.08</description>
         <content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I demand that everyone must pay me 10€ just to quote 3 of my words.</p>]]>
	 &lt;p&gt;Posted June 19, 2008  9:47 PM by Person&lt;/p&gt;</content:encoded>
         <link>http://nielsenhayden.com/makinglight/archives/010341.html#275763</link>
         <guid isPermaLink="true">http://nielsenhayden.com/makinglight/archives/010341.html#275763</guid>
         <pubDate>Thu, 19 Jun 2008 21:47:23 -0500</pubDate>
      </item>
      
      <item>
         <title>The Associated Press wants to charge you $12.50 to quote five words from them -- comment #132 from Mycroft W</title>
         <description>comment from Mycroft W on 20.Jun.08</description>
         <content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Xopher: <em>for some reason (probably exhaustion)</em><br />
...or you've been reading the ASL manual again.  At least I was reading it as as KVs with AP crawl...</p>]]>
	 &lt;p&gt;Posted June 20, 2008  6:35 PM by Mycroft W&lt;/p&gt;</content:encoded>
         <link>http://nielsenhayden.com/makinglight/archives/010341.html#275966</link>
         <guid isPermaLink="true">http://nielsenhayden.com/makinglight/archives/010341.html#275966</guid>
         <pubDate>Fri, 20 Jun 2008 18:35:23 -0500</pubDate>
      </item>
      
      <item>
         <title>The Associated Press wants to charge you $12.50 to quote five words from them -- comment #133 from Spam deleted</title>
         <description>comment from Spam deleted on  5.Jul.08</description>
         <content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Spam from : 	122.160.70.48</p>]]>
	 &lt;p&gt;Posted July  5, 2008  2:33 AM by Spam deleted&lt;/p&gt;</content:encoded>
         <link>http://nielsenhayden.com/makinglight/archives/010341.html#279279</link>
         <guid isPermaLink="true">http://nielsenhayden.com/makinglight/archives/010341.html#279279</guid>
         <pubDate>Sat, 05 Jul 2008 02:33:23 -0500</pubDate>
      </item>
      
      <item>
         <title>The Associated Press wants to charge you $12.50 to quote five words from them -- comment #134 from Nancy C. Mittens points up at the spam</title>
         <description>comment from Nancy C. Mittens points up at the spam on 15.Jul.08</description>
         <content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>[[point]]</p>]]>
	 &lt;p&gt;Posted July 15, 2008  7:27 AM by Nancy C. Mittens points up at the spam&lt;/p&gt;</content:encoded>
         <link>http://nielsenhayden.com/makinglight/archives/010341.html#281566</link>
         <guid isPermaLink="true">http://nielsenhayden.com/makinglight/archives/010341.html#281566</guid>
         <pubDate>Tue, 15 Jul 2008 07:27:58 -0500</pubDate>
      </item>
      
      <item>
         <title>The Associated Press wants to charge you $12.50 to quote five words from them -- comment #135 from Xopher sees same spam coming back again</title>
         <description>comment from Xopher sees same spam coming back again on 19.Jul.08</description>
         <content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Bloody hell.  They just came in here a couple of days ago!  Damn I hate these people.</p>]]>
	 &lt;p&gt;Posted July 19, 2008 10:42 AM by Xopher sees same spam coming back again&lt;/p&gt;</content:encoded>
         <link>http://nielsenhayden.com/makinglight/archives/010341.html#282557</link>
         <guid isPermaLink="true">http://nielsenhayden.com/makinglight/archives/010341.html#282557</guid>
         <pubDate>Sat, 19 Jul 2008 10:42:57 -0500</pubDate>
      </item>
      
      <item>
         <title>The Associated Press wants to charge you $12.50 to quote five words from them -- comment #136 from xeger suspects that #139 is linkspam</title>
         <description>comment from xeger suspects that #139 is linkspam on 29.Sep.08</description>
         <content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Linkspam @ #139 ?</p>]]>
	 &lt;p&gt;Posted September 29, 2008  8:09 AM by xeger suspects that #139 is linkspam&lt;/p&gt;</content:encoded>
         <link>http://nielsenhayden.com/makinglight/archives/010341.html#297776</link>
         <guid isPermaLink="true">http://nielsenhayden.com/makinglight/archives/010341.html#297776</guid>
         <pubDate>Mon, 29 Sep 2008 08:09:50 -0500</pubDate>
      </item>
      
      <item>
         <title>The Associated Press wants to charge you $12.50 to quote five words from them -- comment #137 from Mary Aileen notes old spam</title>
         <description>comment from Mary Aileen notes old spam on 29.Sep.08</description>
         <content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>135 and 137 are also spam.</p>]]>
	 &lt;p&gt;Posted September 29, 2008 10:00 AM by Mary Aileen notes old spam&lt;/p&gt;</content:encoded>
         <link>http://nielsenhayden.com/makinglight/archives/010341.html#297782</link>
         <guid isPermaLink="true">http://nielsenhayden.com/makinglight/archives/010341.html#297782</guid>
         <pubDate>Mon, 29 Sep 2008 10:00:08 -0500</pubDate>
      </item>
      
      <item>
         <title>The Associated Press wants to charge you $12.50 to quote five words from them -- comment #138 from Tykewriter</title>
         <description>comment from Tykewriter on 29.Sep.08</description>
         <content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>R. M. 122:<em>My work has TVs with an AP crawl in the elevator lobby</em></p>

<p>Xopher @128:... <em>the image of men in dresses, each armed with a scary-looking gunlike object, grimly crawling through an elevator lobby was vivid and bizarre.</em></p>

<p>...and was going to be the climax of my NaNoWriMo novel! Pants! <br />
(Is it too early to mention NaNoWriMo? Do I get points for being first? Thought not.)</p>]]>
	 &lt;p&gt;Posted September 29, 2008 10:09 AM by Tykewriter&lt;/p&gt;</content:encoded>
         <link>http://nielsenhayden.com/makinglight/archives/010341.html#297783</link>
         <guid isPermaLink="true">http://nielsenhayden.com/makinglight/archives/010341.html#297783</guid>
         <pubDate>Mon, 29 Sep 2008 10:09:57 -0500</pubDate>
      </item>
      
      <item>
         <title>The Associated Press wants to charge you $12.50 to quote five words from them -- comment #139 from Keelaar</title>
         <description>comment from Keelaar on 21.Oct.08</description>
         <content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>There was a time when the press reported the news without a spin. AP has made it's preferred choice for president and now is attempting to throw their net over free thought as their intellectual property. It's pure greed and evil. It's the same type of thinking that has the financial world crumbling. </p>]]>
	 &lt;p&gt;Posted October 21, 2008  6:29 PM by Keelaar&lt;/p&gt;</content:encoded>
         <link>http://nielsenhayden.com/makinglight/archives/010341.html#301426</link>
         <guid isPermaLink="true">http://nielsenhayden.com/makinglight/archives/010341.html#301426</guid>
         <pubDate>Tue, 21 Oct 2008 18:29:49 -0500</pubDate>
      </item>
      
      <item>
         <title>The Associated Press wants to charge you $12.50 to quote five words from them -- comment #140 from Ron</title>
         <description>comment from Ron on 22.Nov.08</description>
         <content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>A little vanity googling bounced be back here, so I thought I would comment on the "fair use" principle.  I am all for "fair use".  But when a small business has a strong creative name, that business can stand out in a crowd, and "fair use" is not a much larger business taking that name for its own profitable ends and thereby effectively burying the small business competitor.  The American concept of Copyright as a legal principle was exactly created to keep larger businesses from burying smaller businesses (read the history of Webster and the Continental Congress).  But "judicial construction" during the "Robber Baron" era turned Copyright of Title on its head, circa 1890, and the courts have refused to right the wrong that was done at that point (too much money "involved", supposedly, but really to keep the big boys happy so money flows to the politicians and the courts for holiday trips paid by companies).   I do believe that someday 37 CFR 202.1(a), based on true originality, will be overturned.  And, by the way, "fair use" will NOT be overturned.  It is a true and "fair" concept.  But "fair use" does not include obvious sole use for profit.  "Use for profit" can be parsed, as in a name being used by a reporter who is writing an article "for profit", but that only begs the question compared to a larger company taking the name and putting it on its own product, like or not. </p>]]>
	 &lt;p&gt;Posted November 22, 2008  2:48 AM by Ron&lt;/p&gt;</content:encoded>
         <link>http://nielsenhayden.com/makinglight/archives/010341.html#308689</link>
         <guid isPermaLink="true">http://nielsenhayden.com/makinglight/archives/010341.html#308689</guid>
         <pubDate>Sat, 22 Nov 2008 02:48:35 -0500</pubDate>
      </item>
      
      <item>
         <title>The Associated Press wants to charge you $12.50 to quote five words from them -- comment #141 from Lee sees undeleted spam</title>
         <description>comment from Lee sees undeleted spam on 22.Nov.08</description>
         <content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>@ 144<br />
</p>]]>
	 &lt;p&gt;Posted November 22, 2008  3:12 AM by Lee sees undeleted spam&lt;/p&gt;</content:encoded>
         <link>http://nielsenhayden.com/makinglight/archives/010341.html#308690</link>
         <guid isPermaLink="true">http://nielsenhayden.com/makinglight/archives/010341.html#308690</guid>
         <pubDate>Sat, 22 Nov 2008 03:12:56 -0500</pubDate>
      </item>
      
      <item>
         <title>The Associated Press wants to charge you $12.50 to quote five words from them -- comment #142 from Spam deleted</title>
         <description>comment from Spam deleted on 30.Nov.08</description>
         <content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>[Spam from 76.116.111.36]</p>]]>
	 &lt;p&gt;Posted November 30, 2008  8:26 PM by Spam deleted&lt;/p&gt;</content:encoded>
         <link>http://nielsenhayden.com/makinglight/archives/010341.html#310174</link>
         <guid isPermaLink="true">http://nielsenhayden.com/makinglight/archives/010341.html#310174</guid>
         <pubDate>Sun, 30 Nov 2008 20:26:11 -0500</pubDate>
      </item>
      
      <item>
         <title>The Associated Press wants to charge you $12.50 to quote five words from them -- comment #143 from Stefan Jones sees inept spam </title>
         <description>comment from Stefan Jones sees inept spam  on 30.Nov.08</description>
         <content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Maybe a test.</p>]]>
	 &lt;p&gt;Posted November 30, 2008  8:51 PM by Stefan Jones sees inept spam &lt;/p&gt;</content:encoded>
         <link>http://nielsenhayden.com/makinglight/archives/010341.html#310176</link>
         <guid isPermaLink="true">http://nielsenhayden.com/makinglight/archives/010341.html#310176</guid>
         <pubDate>Sun, 30 Nov 2008 20:51:38 -0500</pubDate>
      </item>
      
      <item>
         <title>The Associated Press wants to charge you $12.50 to quote five words from them -- comment #144 from Earl Cooley III does some spam research</title>
         <description>comment from Earl Cooley III does some spam research on 30.Nov.08</description>
         <content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>It's interesting to note that the spam link is clickable on his "view all by" page. It sounds like the pasteurization process for such links may not carry over to the "view all by" pages, which makes it a kind of back door for spam propagation.</p>]]>
	 &lt;p&gt;Posted November 30, 2008 10:08 PM by Earl Cooley III does some spam research&lt;/p&gt;</content:encoded>
         <link>http://nielsenhayden.com/makinglight/archives/010341.html#310180</link>
         <guid isPermaLink="true">http://nielsenhayden.com/makinglight/archives/010341.html#310180</guid>
         <pubDate>Sun, 30 Nov 2008 22:08:44 -0500</pubDate>
      </item>
      
      <item>
         <title>The Associated Press wants to charge you $12.50 to quote five words from them -- comment #145 from Terry Karney</title>
         <description>comment from Terry Karney on 30.Nov.08</description>
         <content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Earl:  Unless something has changed I can't do that.  Is it, perhaps, a quirk of your configuration?</p>]]>
	 &lt;p&gt;Posted November 30, 2008 10:42 PM by Terry Karney&lt;/p&gt;</content:encoded>
         <link>http://nielsenhayden.com/makinglight/archives/010341.html#310183</link>
         <guid isPermaLink="true">http://nielsenhayden.com/makinglight/archives/010341.html#310183</guid>
         <pubDate>Sun, 30 Nov 2008 22:42:41 -0500</pubDate>
      </item>
      
      <item>
         <title>The Associated Press wants to charge you $12.50 to quote five words from them -- comment #146 from Paula Lieberman</title>
         <description>comment from Paula Lieberman on 30.Nov.08</description>
         <content:encoded><![CDATA[<p><i>Has</i> AP ever actually come out with the material they claimed they were going to come out with regarding what they considered unacceptable why? </p>]]>
	 &lt;p&gt;Posted November 30, 2008 11:14 PM by Paula Lieberman&lt;/p&gt;</content:encoded>
         <link>http://nielsenhayden.com/makinglight/archives/010341.html#310188</link>
         <guid isPermaLink="true">http://nielsenhayden.com/makinglight/archives/010341.html#310188</guid>
         <pubDate>Sun, 30 Nov 2008 23:14:21 -0500</pubDate>
      </item>
      
      <item>
         <title>The Associated Press wants to charge you $12.50 to quote five words from them -- comment #147 from Terry Karney</title>
         <description>comment from Terry Karney on 30.Nov.08</description>
         <content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Paula: No.  They probably don't dare since it will be in violation of the idea of fair use (which is, as I seem to recall we went over, a set of guides, not a set of bright lines).</p>]]>
	 &lt;p&gt;Posted November 30, 2008 11:59 PM by Terry Karney&lt;/p&gt;</content:encoded>
         <link>http://nielsenhayden.com/makinglight/archives/010341.html#310191</link>
         <guid isPermaLink="true">http://nielsenhayden.com/makinglight/archives/010341.html#310191</guid>
         <pubDate>Sun, 30 Nov 2008 23:59:40 -0500</pubDate>
      </item>
      
      <item>
         <title>The Associated Press wants to charge you $12.50 to quote five words from them -- comment #148 from Paula Lieberman</title>
         <description>comment from Paula Lieberman on  5.Dec.08</description>
         <content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>#152 ::: Paula </p>

<p><i>Has AP ever actually come out with the material they claimed they were going to come out with regarding what they considered unacceptable why? </i></p>

<p>#153 Terry</p>

<p><i>Paula: No. They probably don't dare since it will be in violation of the idea of fair use (which is, as I seem to recall we went over, a set of guides, not a set of bright lines). </i></p>

<p>Lying scum<br />
Lying scum<br />
AP tells us lies,<br />
Lying scum, <br />
Lying scum<br />
And they won't say why,<br />
The lawsuits they use<br />
Bloggers abuse,<br />
Lying scum, <br />
Lying scum, <br />
Lying scum.</p>

<p>Lying scum<br />
Lying scum<br />
AP said they say,<br />
Lying scum, <br />
Lying scum<br />
What had gone astray <br />
But it's beens weeks,<br />
There's been not a peep<br />
Lying scum, <br />
Lying scum, <br />
Lying scum.</p>

<p>Lying scum<br />
Lying scum<br />
AP tells us lies,<br />
Lying scum, <br />
Lying scum<br />
From them then don't buy,<br />
Lies they have spread,<br />
Their business should go dead,<br />
Lying scum, <br />
Lying scum, <br />
Lying scum.<br />
</p>]]>
	 &lt;p&gt;Posted December  5, 2008  9:56 PM by Paula Lieberman&lt;/p&gt;</content:encoded>
         <link>http://nielsenhayden.com/makinglight/archives/010341.html#311709</link>
         <guid isPermaLink="true">http://nielsenhayden.com/makinglight/archives/010341.html#311709</guid>
         <pubDate>Fri, 05 Dec 2008 21:56:43 -0500</pubDate>
      </item>
      
      <item>
         <title>The Associated Press wants to charge you $12.50 to quote five words from them -- comment #149 from flytch</title>
         <description>comment from flytch on 18.Feb.09</description>
         <content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>so make them PROVE their words are original... if they are not the first users of those words in that order then they did not originate them... they in fact copied them from someone else and are maybe in violation of copyright themselves... </p>

<p>court cost for proof would be overwhelming in any matter... </p>]]>
	 &lt;p&gt;Posted February 18, 2009  6:03 AM by flytch&lt;/p&gt;</content:encoded>
         <link>http://nielsenhayden.com/makinglight/archives/010341.html#327158</link>
         <guid isPermaLink="true">http://nielsenhayden.com/makinglight/archives/010341.html#327158</guid>
         <pubDate>Wed, 18 Feb 2009 06:03:32 -0500</pubDate>
      </item>
      
      <item>
         <title>The Associated Press wants to charge you $12.50 to quote five words from them -- comment #150 from Joel Polowin</title>
         <description>comment from Joel Polowin on 18.Feb.09</description>
         <content:encoded><![CDATA[<p><i>court cost for proof would be overwhelming in any matter... </i></p>

<p>That is precisely the problem, or a big part of it: AP has much deeper pockets than most of the people they'd be going to court with over this matter.<br />
</p>]]>
	 &lt;p&gt;Posted February 18, 2009  9:29 AM by Joel Polowin&lt;/p&gt;</content:encoded>
         <link>http://nielsenhayden.com/makinglight/archives/010341.html#327170</link>
         <guid isPermaLink="true">http://nielsenhayden.com/makinglight/archives/010341.html#327170</guid>
         <pubDate>Wed, 18 Feb 2009 09:29:22 -0500</pubDate>
      </item>
      
      <item>
         <title>The Associated Press wants to charge you $12.50 to quote five words from them -- comment #151 from Terry Karney</title>
         <description>comment from Terry Karney on 18.Feb.09</description>
         <content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>flytch: That's precisely the problem.</p>

<p>AP is suing the artist who did the Obama posters; it seems they don't actually have the copyright to the picture they are claiming he plagiarised.</p>

<p>I don't have the money to prove they stole something of mine that way.</p>

<p>How much less will I have the money when they are claiming the words aren't mine?</p>]]>
	 &lt;p&gt;Posted February 18, 2009 11:54 AM by Terry Karney&lt;/p&gt;</content:encoded>
         <link>http://nielsenhayden.com/makinglight/archives/010341.html#327187</link>
         <guid isPermaLink="true">http://nielsenhayden.com/makinglight/archives/010341.html#327187</guid>
         <pubDate>Wed, 18 Feb 2009 11:54:48 -0500</pubDate>
      </item>
      
      <item>
         <title>The Associated Press wants to charge you $12.50 to quote five words from them -- comment #152 from Earl Cooley III</title>
         <description>comment from Earl Cooley III on 24.Feb.09</description>
         <content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>It appears that the AP hasn't bothered to fire the <a href="http://thepriorart.typepad.com/the_prior_art/2009/02/associated-press-v-ahn-court-upholds-hot-news-doctrine.html" rel="nofollow">venal slackwits</a> who pretend to give them valid legal advice.</p>]]>
	 &lt;p&gt;Posted February 24, 2009  9:08 PM by Earl Cooley III&lt;/p&gt;</content:encoded>
         <link>http://nielsenhayden.com/makinglight/archives/010341.html#328739</link>
         <guid isPermaLink="true">http://nielsenhayden.com/makinglight/archives/010341.html#328739</guid>
         <pubDate>Tue, 24 Feb 2009 21:08:45 -0500</pubDate>
      </item>
      
      <item>
         <title>The Associated Press wants to charge you $12.50 to quote five words from them -- comment #153 from Noah Flower</title>
         <description>comment from Noah Flower on  7.Apr.09</description>
         <content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Thanks for the thoughts on this story. I've also posted some commentary here on my blog: <a href="http://www.deepcurrents.net/?p=113" rel="nofollow">http://www.deepcurrents.net/?p=113</a>.  </p>]]>
	 &lt;p&gt;Posted April  7, 2009 11:45 PM by Noah Flower&lt;/p&gt;</content:encoded>
         <link>http://nielsenhayden.com/makinglight/archives/010341.html#335505</link>
         <guid isPermaLink="true">http://nielsenhayden.com/makinglight/archives/010341.html#335505</guid>
         <pubDate>Tue, 07 Apr 2009 23:45:33 -0500</pubDate>
      </item>
      
      <item>
         <title>The Associated Press wants to charge you $12.50 to quote five words from them -- comment #154 from Clifton Royston</title>
         <description>comment from Clifton Royston on 12.Apr.09</description>
         <content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>The latest foot-shooting from the AP:</p>

<p><a href="http://www.techcrunch.com/2009/04/08/ap-exec-doesnt-know-it-has-a-youtube-channel-threatens-affiliate-for-embedding-videos/#" rel="nofollow">AP threatens to sue an AP affiliate for embedding videos from the AP's own Youtube channel</a></p>

<p>Apparently the AP exec-in-charge-of-threatening-people had no idea that AP had its own Youtube channel, let alone that they were actively trying to get more affiliates to make use of it.  He then failed to at least back off the high-horse gracefully, as with an apology.</p>]]>
	 &lt;p&gt;Posted April 12, 2009  6:31 PM by Clifton Royston&lt;/p&gt;</content:encoded>
         <link>http://nielsenhayden.com/makinglight/archives/010341.html#336196</link>
         <guid isPermaLink="true">http://nielsenhayden.com/makinglight/archives/010341.html#336196</guid>
         <pubDate>Sun, 12 Apr 2009 18:31:44 -0500</pubDate>
      </item>
      
      <item>
         <title>The Associated Press wants to charge you $12.50 to quote five words from them -- comment #155 from Cadbury Moose sees linkspam on</title>
         <description>comment from Cadbury Moose sees linkspam on on  5.Jan.10</description>
         <content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>incomprehensible URL that could hide absolutely _anything_ behind the poster name, and an e.e.cummins all purpose M3 T00!<br />
as body.</p>]]>
	 &lt;p&gt;Posted January  5, 2010 12:35 PM by Cadbury Moose sees linkspam on&lt;/p&gt;</content:encoded>
         <link>http://nielsenhayden.com/makinglight/archives/010341.html#392885</link>
         <guid isPermaLink="true">http://nielsenhayden.com/makinglight/archives/010341.html#392885</guid>
         <pubDate>Tue, 05 Jan 2010 12:35:18 -0500</pubDate>
      </item>
      
      <item>
         <title>The Associated Press wants to charge you $12.50 to quote five words from them -- comment #156 from John E. Bredehoft</title>
         <description>comment from John E. Bredehoft on  6.Jul.10</description>
         <content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Got here via Woot's early July 2010 linklove, in which they wanted to invoice the AP $17.50 for quoting from Woot content in an AP article...but Woot graciously offered to just allow AP to buy a product instead. </p>]]>
	 &lt;p&gt;Posted July  6, 2010  1:47 PM by John E. Bredehoft&lt;/p&gt;</content:encoded>
         <link>http://nielsenhayden.com/makinglight/archives/010341.html#442867</link>
         <guid isPermaLink="true">http://nielsenhayden.com/makinglight/archives/010341.html#442867</guid>
         <pubDate>Tue, 06 Jul 2010 13:47:27 -0500</pubDate>
      </item>
      
      <item>
         <title>The Associated Press wants to charge you $12.50 to quote five words from them -- comment #157 from TexAnne sees spam</title>
         <description>comment from TexAnne sees spam on 29.Jul.10</description>
         <content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Not even trying. Sheesh.</p>]]>
	 &lt;p&gt;Posted July 29, 2010 12:09 AM by TexAnne sees spam&lt;/p&gt;</content:encoded>
         <link>http://nielsenhayden.com/makinglight/archives/010341.html#450837</link>
         <guid isPermaLink="true">http://nielsenhayden.com/makinglight/archives/010341.html#450837</guid>
         <pubDate>Thu, 29 Jul 2010 00:09:50 -0500</pubDate>
      </item>
      
      <item>
         <title>The Associated Press wants to charge you $12.50 to quote five words from them -- comment #158 from Jon Meltzer sees more than 5 words of spam</title>
         <description>comment from Jon Meltzer sees more than 5 words of spam on  7.Dec.10</description>
         <content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Patrick and Teresa should bill. </p>]]>
	 &lt;p&gt;Posted December  7, 2010  8:26 PM by Jon Meltzer sees more than 5 words of spam&lt;/p&gt;</content:encoded>
         <link>http://nielsenhayden.com/makinglight/archives/010341.html#507335</link>
         <guid isPermaLink="true">http://nielsenhayden.com/makinglight/archives/010341.html#507335</guid>
         <pubDate>Tue, 07 Dec 2010 20:26:35 -0500</pubDate>
      </item>
      
   </channel>
</rss>