I'm impressed - that's a pretty fine example of literary research.

Ah, but if only you could put that perserverance and fine investigative mind to good instead of evil...

Posted June 30, 2008 1:06 AM by Allen Baum

When we were in York, I spied canned gin-and-tonic for sale, so I took one back to my room. There I watched the last half hour or so of CARRY ON NURSE. It was a pleasant enough occupation, and the drink didn't interfere with my enjoyment in the least.

Perhaps I'll give the juice of the juniper another try one day. Maybe as part of a refreshing fruity beverage.

Posted June 30, 2008 1:06 AM by Kip W

...to put into the blessed infants’ Daffy, when they ain’t well...

While "daffy" was a Victorian slang term for gin, I think that what Mrs. Mann was talking about here was the genuine Daffy's Elixir, "so much approved of in Town and Country, which has perform'd such number of great cures, when all other Medicines have failed, recommended by several eminent Physicians..." and particularly recommended for teething infants.

Posted June 30, 2008 1:30 AM by James D. Macdonald

The version of the song I learned in high school choir spelled it gill, a unit of fluid measure.

Posted June 30, 2008 1:53 AM by Max Kaehn

This may, perhaps, be an indelicate question, but is it normal for gin to reek of Pine-Sol?

Posted June 30, 2008 1:55 AM by Earl Cooley III

With hot weather here on the Left Coast finally, that means it's gin time! At least, it does at Chez Wirelizard.

A straight-up G&T is classic, of course; a real Martini[1] works sometimes, but when it's 30 C out, this refreshes wonderfully:

Over ice, usually in a Collins-sized (~8oz) glass:
2 oz Gin
2+ oz lemon juice
tonic water to fill

It's lemonade for grownups - I usually make it with almost 50% lemon juice, but I really, really like lemons...

Also good "virgin" without the gin, if the sun isn't over the yardarm yet, or whatever.

[1] I appear to have become a cocktail fundamentalist at some point. There are a large number of perfectly good cocktails served in martini glasses (and larger numbers of perfectly awful ones) but a martini is gin+vermouth (to taste)+olive. No more, no less.

Posted June 30, 2008 2:00 AM by Wirelizard

It is indeed "gill," a fluid measure approximately equal to a mouthful (not to be confused with a jack, a solid measure equal to about a handful).

And no, gin isn't supposed to reek of Pine-Sol. Not the good stuff, anyway.

Cheaper stuff probably benefits from nutmeg and cinnamon.

Posted June 30, 2008 2:07 AM by James D. Macdonald

Given this, there is (I hope) no reason why you shouldn't hear the quite remarkable track by the late great band Annwn that puts both of those songs together.

Posted June 30, 2008 2:15 AM by DBratman

Coincidentally (I assume), I sang "Byker Hill" at a party last week. With the "bumble" verse, although it didn't occur to me to wonder what it meant.

Posted June 30, 2008 2:17 AM by Tim Walters

Per my own #6 above, apparently I've re-invented the gin rickey, although the classic gin rickey apparently uses club soda, not tonic water, and usually lime instead of lemon juice.

Nice to know it has a name!

Posted June 30, 2008 2:37 AM by Wirelizard

Speaking of Marley, that's how Christopher Marlowe spelled his name when signing it (thus how he pronounced it).

Posted June 30, 2008 2:51 AM by James D. Macdonald

A gill is five fluid ounces (UK fluid ounces), quarter of a pint. Substantially more than a mouthful unless you're very thirsty.

Posted June 30, 2008 3:31 AM by Alison Scott

Jim @6
My mother did the vodka thing on my teething gums. According to my mother, she rubbed the vodka on my gums, then fed me the rest of the capfull. I threw up my hands, shouted "WHEEEEEEEE!" then slept for several hours. My personal opinion as to why she only did it once is my mother didn't want me to turn out like my father, who had a penchant for drinking and getting into trouble. Didn't help.

Posted June 30, 2008 5:59 AM by Lin D

Too early. Jim @3, seen just after hitting POST. *sigh*

Posted June 30, 2008 6:00 AM by Lin D

The common English spirit measure as served in a bar was one-sixth of a gill, while the amount in Scotland was one-fifth, so a UK fluid ounce or a little less. Pre forced metrication, of course.

(The idea of legally enforced alcohol measures is one alien to most of the US, it seems)

Posted June 30, 2008 6:39 AM by Matthew Brown

This may, perhaps, be an indelicate question, but is it normal for gin to reek of Pine-Sol?

Maybe. Depends on your nose, your taste, and the gin. Some people strongly associate any pine scent with Pine-Sol, and will find *any* gin to smell like it. Others don't. I'd find a nice public garden with a tree collection and start sniffing their evergreens to try to figure it out.

(gin is flavored with juniper berries, so if all you can find is a creeping juniper in the yard, that works too)

Posted June 30, 2008 6:56 AM by Emily

Relatedly, here's Mark Chu-Carroll's homemade tonic recipe; here's to open-source G&T.

Posted June 30, 2008 7:44 AM by Alex

This made me exceptionally happy as a thing to read first thing in the morning.

Actually, it very much reminds me of where story ideas come from.

In response to Jim at #11, it's also how Kit's dad, John Marley, spelled his name (we have signatures of both men, though only one of Kit's.) However, suspicion runs high that Master Marley has a strong regional accent (He was Kentish, which is not very much like being Entish), which probably contributed to everybody else who met him spelling his name "Marlowe," "Marlow," "Marloe," or in a few notable cases, "Merlin."

He also spelled his own first name Christofer, which I rather like, and not only for the infernal pun at the end.

Posted June 30, 2008 7:50 AM by ebear

Bob Marley, whose father was an Englishman, would have defined 'bumbo' as the female pudend.

Posted June 30, 2008 9:07 AM by Fragano Ledgister

re: Pine-sol

Years ago, some friends of ours in Georgia told us that they went on a weekend trip to somebody's cabin, and forgot to bring anything at all to consume for purposes of mood elevation.

They diligently searched the cabin, and somebody turned up a bottle of something that said it was "Pine Wine." It smelled like turpentine. (Nothing was said about resemblance to India ink.) It tasted about how you'd expect it to.

Over the weekend, they somehow managed to drink it all.

Posted June 30, 2008 9:42 AM by Kip W

There's a parody of Byker Hill (at Mudcat) that includes:

The calypso man and the Lilt man come
They drink rum punch made from rum
Then they dance and they have such fun
With the rhythms of Bob Marley

Posted June 30, 2008 9:44 AM by James D. Macdonald

In my experience, the cheap gin both reeks and tastes of Pine-Sol. I cannot get cheap gin down.

I describe it like this: Good gin tastes like a Christmas tree smells. Bad gin tastes like a Christmas tree tastes.

The first time I drank a gin drink was at someone else's open bar party, at which they were pouring top-shelf stuff. The gin and tonic was extremely good -- aromatic, marrying beautifully with the touch of lime, and with a slightly sweet aroma and taste.

A few weeks later, at someone else's bachelorette party, the guest of honor asked me for a drink suggestion. I said "gin and tonic." She bought one. It was a college bar, and they were pouring out of the large plastic bottles. She made a face, and I tasted it and made a face, because it tasted like Pine-Sol. I think we gave it to someone else.

I love this post, by the way, not because of the gin discussion but because I love the sleuthing and the family tree of these verses.

Posted June 30, 2008 9:44 AM by Caroline

If I Had Another Penny...

Penny Robinson?
Lady Penelope Creighton-Ward?

Posted June 30, 2008 10:00 AM by Serge

Emily #16: gin is flavored with juniper berries

Does that make it dangerous for people who suffer from cedar fever to drink gin?

Posted June 30, 2008 10:56 AM by Earl Cooley III

The strongest argument the Montreal Worldcon bid group made to me on behalf of Anticipation was the sample of spruce beer.

(A commercial soft drink, not *beer*. It tasted like -- well, I haven't had either good gin or bad gin, but I'm betting that it was a lot more like the bad stuff.)

It was so bizarre that I decided to go to the damn con just to try more of it. I subsequently got another sample at Boskone, which failed to dissuade me.

Posted June 30, 2008 10:57 AM by Andrew Plotkin

Andrew Plotkin @ 25, how odd. Like root beer, except spruce?

I did recently have redwood beer, which is beer beer, not a soft drink. It was really good.

Posted June 30, 2008 11:02 AM by Caroline

Bumbo seems to be related to Punch, which in its original form comprised Arrack or Rum, Sugar, Water, Lemon Juice and Spices (5 ingredients making "punch" from the Hindi/Urdu panch, meaning 5). Now that goes back a long way, to the heyday of the "Honourable East India Company".

I guess substituting gin, cheap and easily available in the 18th/19th centuries would be a fairly obvious move for the less privileged classes of the time.

I had no idea these drinks were so similar. Thanks for the research.

Posted June 30, 2008 11:06 AM by chris y

This seems to be a drink thread.

I recently put together a drink, based roughly on a sidecar, which needs a name.

2 parts bourbon
2 parts peach shnapps (I like sweet drinks--put in less for a less sweet drink)
1 part lemon juice

Excellent and summery, but it needs a name.

Posted June 30, 2008 11:13 AM by SamChevre

I happen to love this song, and went and bought the Cottar's CD based on hearing it on Pandora.

Thanks for the research, Jim. Need to remember to try this at CONvergence this weekend, though I am much more a fan of Sloe Gin and tonic. (yes, I am a heathen believer in the drinks of sugary sweetness)

Posted June 30, 2008 11:44 AM by Sisuile

I'm not a drinker, but Deborah Madison has a recipe for Anasazi beans with juniper berries which I recommend heartily. IIRC, it's in The Savory Way.

Posted June 30, 2008 12:13 PM by Lila

I'm not a drinker, but Deborah Madison has a recipe for Anasazi beans with juniper berries which I recommend heartily. IIRC, it's in The Savory Way.

Posted June 30, 2008 12:13 PM by Lila

I was wondering if 'bumble' and 'syllabub' might be related in any way, given the number of alternate spellings of bumble. Wiki doesn't say so, and I couldn't find any other evidence of explicit relatedness, and yet there are some similarities -- alcohol, sugar, nutmeg.

(General site recommendation: historicfood.com.)

Posted June 30, 2008 12:29 PM by Debbie

DBratman (@8) beat me to the recommendation, but I second it. I like Annwn's version; their version of Cutty Wren is also worth listening to.

Posted June 30, 2008 12:55 PM by Hugh

Daffy's Elixir (named for Thomas Daffy, the 17th c. clergyman who concocted the stuff), it turns out, was mostly senna (the active ingredient in Ex-Lax) dissolved in brandy.

I can see why folks who ate high-starch/low-fiber diets and routinely dosed themselves with laudanum would need a wide variety of laxatives. (Constipation is a side-effect of any of the opiates.)

Posted June 30, 2008 1:14 PM by James D. Macdonald

Gin and clinic, ah childhood memories. Not that my mother would ever have dreamed of putting gin in my clinic. Some neighbours' children were not so 'deprived'.

Clinic? Orange concentrate provided free to children on our NHS.

Not any more.

Posted June 30, 2008 1:16 PM by martyn44

#8 DBratman there is (I hope) no reason why you shouldn't hear the quite remarkable track by the late great band Annwn

Alas, there is a reason: "Server is taking too long to respond." I hope this is because of an increase in traffic from happy Making Light readers, not because it's down hard for good and all.

Posted June 30, 2008 1:20 PM by James D. Macdonald

Debbie @32, syllabub is an entirely different creature, the basic recipe being "milk a cow into a container of ale or sherry."

Posted June 30, 2008 1:27 PM by Rikibeth

If I had another penny (If I had another penny)
I'd buy you a drink (but not a real gin drink, that's cruel)...

Posted June 30, 2008 1:37 PM by Joel Polowin

Rikibeth @37 -- I realize that it's a mixture of whipped cream and alcohol, but not necessarily directly from the cow (essay here; N.B., pdf).

On reflection, and looking at lots of different recipes, it seems like the basis for so many drinks was always alcohol + spices + sweetener, with variations (hot, cold, milk, etc.). I saw a reference to hot buttered rum made with molasses that was also called Bumbo.

Posted June 30, 2008 2:06 PM by Debbie

Personally I think it's Buckley's Mixture that tastes like drinking a Christmas tree (with the needles scraping your throat on the way down); but it's true that it does ease a stuffy nose very well, once the screaming stops.

I would avoid any gin that remotely resembles Buckley's Mixture.

Posted June 30, 2008 2:10 PM by Sarah

Rikibeth@37 -
Debbie @32, syllabub is an entirely different creature, the basic recipe being "milk a cow into a container of ale or sherry."

... and here I thought a syllabub was the overview of courses taught at the Wolverine and Lobo School of Charm and Refinement...

Posted June 30, 2008 2:19 PM by Scott Taylor

Ahem. One shouldn't confuse www.mudcat.org with www.mudcat.com; tho' they do have a photo gallery and video, there seems to be a different kind of sound being purveyed there. Just sayin'

Posted June 30, 2008 2:51 PM by Epacris

#11 James D. Macdonald : "Speaking of Marley, that's how Christopher Marlowe spelled his name when signing it (thus how he pronounced it)."

Thank you. For some reason, the alternate spelling question was running around in my head lately, and I could not for the life of me remember what it was.

Cue "A Shakespeare Carol...
"Marlowe was dead, to begin with..."

Posted June 30, 2008 3:03 PM by B. Durbin

Scott Taylor @ 41... the Wolverine and Lobo School of Charm and Refinement

"What exactly are you a professor *of*, 'Professor Logan'?"
"Art."

Posted June 30, 2008 3:18 PM by Serge

James Macdonald #21: I should have expected that.

Posted June 30, 2008 3:29 PM by Fragano Ledgister

Caroline #22: Why would you want to eat a Christmas tree?

Posted June 30, 2008 3:30 PM by Fragano Ledgister

Did you know that you can get pre-mixed martinis in the liquor stores of New Hampshire? They come in cans, with pop-tops.

Have I mentioned that they're vile?

Oh -- in case anyone was interested, the recipe for James Bond's martini:

Three measures of Gordon's, one of grain vodka, half a measure of Kina Lillet. Shake it very well until it's ice-cold, then add a large thin slice of lemon peel. Serve in a deep champagne glass.

(Alas, Kina Lillet is no longer made.)

That sounds absolutely deadly. (Note, too, that Nikita Krushchev called the martini "America's secret weapon.")

Posted June 30, 2008 3:33 PM by James D. Macdonald

Being called Jill, I was always offended by the idea I could be had for a mere penny! When we sang the song at our folk-club (in the dim and distant reaches of the last century) I would usually add an "ooh!" of shock/surprise at the end of that line.

Posted June 30, 2008 4:29 PM by Jill Paddock

James D. Macdonald @ 47

After drinking cheap Russian vodka all his life, Nikita would have said that about anything stronger than beer that you might drink because you liked the taste.

Posted June 30, 2008 4:33 PM by Bruce Cohen (SpeakerToManagers)

Note that the "Bumble Bee" first found would appear to be pretty close to gin bumble/bumbo with the substitution of honey for sugar, which makes all kinds of sense.

Posted June 30, 2008 5:15 PM by Clifton Royston

I'd go with that, Clifton, particularly when you consider that at least some bumbo recipes have lemon in 'em.

Posted June 30, 2008 5:21 PM by James D. Macdonald

Wirelizard, #6: Oops, you just poked one of my pet peeves and started it growling. :-)

The peeve in question is the use of terms like "adult beverages" or "X for grownups" to refer to booze and recipes containing it. At age 52, I don't care for being relegated to the kiddie table just because I don't like the taste of alcoholic drinks. I do understand that some people consider the ability to drink legally to be a rite of passage; that's their business, but it's not a universal by any means.

Matthew, #15: As I understand it, one of the primary reasons that "American beer" has such a bad reputation is that it's legally required to contain no more than some fairly low percentage of alcohol. As beer is the most popular type of booze in America, I don't think you can legitimately say that legally-enforced alcohol measures are alien to most Americans. ;-)

Kip, #20: They held their noses and closed their eyes?

Jill, #48: Interesting. This being one of those words that I've only seen and never heard, I would have pronounced it like the fish's breathing organ. I like your little joke, though, now that I know the liquid measure is pronounced with a soft G.

Posted June 30, 2008 8:23 PM by Lee

Kip W @2 When we were in York, I spied canned gin-and-tonic for sale, so I took one back to my room.

I've had a couple of cans of gin and tonic and they were okay, but a little sweet. Some tonics are like that; if you're being fussy about gins, it's worth spending a little time finding a tonic you like. Helpfully the co-op supermarket round the corner's own brand suits me fine.

Something I sometimes do: put a slice of lemon in the glass, pour in the gin and then tonic to taste so that it all runs through the slice of lemon (which floats up as you pour); a lemony gin and tonic.

Posted June 30, 2008 8:57 PM by Neil Willcox

I may try nutmeg &/or cinnamon with gin, someday, but don't expect to like the result. Such spices go well (or acceptably) with rum -- it's a convivial & bawdy spirit -- but gin has come (since the days of Hogarth) to be an austere and aloof one, at least in my mind, more suited to the clear bitterness of tonic-water.

Posted June 30, 2008 9:40 PM by Don Fitch

Lee @52, re: American beer's %ABV, that's not true so far as I know. In fact, at the local Real Ale expo, the American beers were more alcoholic (4-5%) than the European beers (3% or under). Of course, that was all American craft brewers, but I'm pretty sure that even the mass-market American beers clock in at 4-5% too. And it's definitely not uncommon to find American craft beers close to wine in alcohol content (8-10% ABV) -- the Midas Touch beer, just for example. I think most of the stigma associated with mass-market American beer comes from how they don't taste like much of anything, not their alcohol content or lack thereof. :-)

Posted June 30, 2008 10:28 PM by Kevin Riggle

The alcohol content on American beer may also depend on the state it's being made for. I think some states are still perrmitting only 'near-beer' sales.

(I like Anchor. YMMV: it's well and truly hopped. My line is that it's only in bottles so it won't scare people by standing in the fridge on its own. It also is good at cellar temp, as opposed to fridge temp.)

Posted June 30, 2008 10:49 PM by P J Evans

Anchor Liberty is even hoppier than Anchor Steam, and I like it even better (although I'm usually not a hop freak and find e.g. Sierra Nevada to be way out of balance).

Posted June 30, 2008 11:04 PM by Tim Walters

Lee @ 52: I have a number of friends who're teetotal, for a variety of reasons; that's fine with me on all fronts. You always know who the designated drivers are, for starters... I spent about a year and a half in my early twenties 'dry', for a variety of complex reasons, mostly to do with wanting to prove I could do it.

Besides, even the gin-free version of my summer drink @6 is moderately "adult" - straight lemon juice + tonic water makes for a much more interesting lemonade than the syrupy stuff usually made from frozen concentrate!

It's not a drink to everyone's taste, even a lot of adults. Certainly most kids would likely make a face and call it icky...

Posted June 30, 2008 11:19 PM by Wirelizard

On a related tangent, a diabetic friend informed me that according to his reading, soft drinks may be directly responsible for the explosion of diabetes in the U.S. near the beginning of the 20th century. Before then, people generally drank lemonade or iced tea on hot days, often with very little sugar according to modern tastes, either because it wasn't subsidized yet or because it hadn't yet dropped out of the conventional wisdom that sugar makes you thirsty. Then soft drinks became cheap and widely available and the incidence of adult-onset diabetes began to climb shortly thereafter.

Coke Adds Life.

Posted July 1, 2008 12:43 AM by Jenny Islander

#50, 51: On further thought, aren't most cocktails liquor + flavor (often citrus) + sweetener?

I wonder if it's more likely that honey -> bee -> bumble rather than bumble -> honey -> bee in the name, and that we're looking at independent recreation (as in Wirelizard @ #10 above).

Posted July 1, 2008 5:58 AM by James D. Macdonald

#59: High-fructose corn syrup as an ingredient (in darned near everything) has a lot to answer for. Even if it is a profit center for ADM.

Posted July 1, 2008 8:52 AM by James D. Macdonald

Jim @ #47, that's not just the Bond martini, that's the Vesper! I didn't know that Kina Lillet was no longer made -- I'd always meant to mix one just to see what it tasted like.

Then there's the McGee, which, IIRC, is "put ice in short tumbler, add slosh of sherry, put strainer over top of glass and dump out sherry, reserving ice, fill with gin, add twist of lemon peel." The original called for Plymouth, but Travis stopped drinking it when it stopped being bottled in the UK, and switched to Boodles, and I wonder what he'd choose for his favorite gin nowadays.

I'm thinking it may be time to make another batch of Teresa's Citrus Cordial, and dilute it from my new toy the seltzer siphon.

Posted July 1, 2008 11:00 AM by Rikibeth

Rikibeth @ 62: that's not just the Bond martini, that's the Vesper! I didn't know that Kina Lillet was no longer made -- I'd always meant to mix one just to see what it tasted like.

It's very good with plain old Lillet (although I prefer orange peel to lemon peel).

Posted July 1, 2008 12:31 PM by Tim Walters

Rikibeth @ #62: Jim @ #47, that's not just the Bond martini, that's the Vesper!

But the Vesper is the Bond martini; it's named after the first ever Bond girl, Vesper Lynd.

Isn't it?

Posted July 3, 2008 11:55 AM by Paul A.

As it happened, the hotel at AlbaCon this year served the "Vesper" martini in their bar (substituting Lillet Blanc for Kina Lillet), and I had one.

It was interesting, and had quite a kick to it, but not something that I'd drink on a daily basis.

Posted November 19, 2008 8:59 PM by James D. Macdonald