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      <title>Making Light :: Carl  Drega, Part III :: comments</title>
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      <title>Carl  Drega, Part III</title>
      <description>Pictures, taken 19 August 2008. Below the cut....</description>
      <content:encoded>Pictures, taken 19 August 2008. Below the cut....</content:encoded>
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         <title>Carl  Drega, Part III -- comment #1 from Xopher</title>
         <description>comment from Xopher on 19.Aug.08</description>
         <content:encoded><p>Let's suggest that Vin put one up on his own property, at his own expense.  </p>
	 <p>Posted August 19, 2008 10:47 PM by Xopher</p></content:encoded>
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         <pubDate>Tue, 19 Aug 2008 22:47:36 -0500</pubDate>
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         <title>Carl  Drega, Part III -- comment #2 from Ginger</title>
         <description>comment from Ginger on 19.Aug.08</description>
         <content:encoded><p>Re #1: Doesn't he already? I mean, he's gotta have a septic tank on his property. </p>

<p>I grew up in a small town, and my folks are still active duty firefighters (that's where I got my training as a firefighter years ago). We've had one murder in the past 50+ years, and I went to school with the guy who did it (drug-related shooting). Small towns are tight networks of connections, and this kind of destruction just reverberates for years. </p>

<p>I'd heard of the Colebrook Massacre, vaguely, but now that I know the details, I'll never forget the names of the victims. They'll go on a little list I keep of important names to remember. It's very important for the rest of us to remember them, and honor them by keeping their names in our hearts. </p>
	 <p>Posted August 19, 2008 11:23 PM by Ginger</p></content:encoded>
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         <pubDate>Tue, 19 Aug 2008 23:23:36 -0500</pubDate>
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         <title>Carl  Drega, Part III -- comment #3 from Jess A.</title>
         <description>comment from Jess A. on 19.Aug.08</description>
         <content:encoded><p>I come from a small town, and am the daughter of a (retired) law enforcement officer. I grew up  with first responder parents who had first responder friends.</p>

<p>I had not heard of this when it happened.  Now I will not forget it.  Laying it out here, as you've done, is moving.</p>
	 <p>Posted August 19, 2008 11:30 PM by Jess A.</p></content:encoded>
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         <pubDate>Tue, 19 Aug 2008 23:30:40 -0500</pubDate>
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         <title>Carl  Drega, Part III -- comment #4 from Kym</title>
         <description>comment from Kym on 20.Aug.08</description>
         <content:encoded><p>Thank you for these posts. </p>
	 <p>Posted August 20, 2008  1:47 AM by Kym</p></content:encoded>
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         <pubDate>Wed, 20 Aug 2008 01:47:36 -0500</pubDate>
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         <title>Carl  Drega, Part III -- comment #5 from Daniel Klein</title>
         <description>comment from Daniel Klein on 20.Aug.08</description>
         <content:encoded><p>These pictures really drive home for me what a quiet little place it was that this happened in, which only adds to the impact since I grew up in a place just like that. </p>

<p>I spent a long time last night in bed turning the whole Carl Drega story over in my head, comparing real life villainy to what is presented to us commonly in fiction. My findings: the arbitrariness (shoot and kill the guy who's trying to stop you by holding onto your legs? wow) and the disproportionality of his response make him seem so much more cruel than any "well developed" villain in fiction, where we'd see all the childhood trauma and the perceived slights against him culminating finally in that killing spree, but only after an appropriate trigger event--and here, nothing actually relevant seems to have happened. There is incomprehensible madness at work here, so much so that you'd almost want to call this Drega guy an unforeseeable force of nature, like an earthquake or a hurricane, but then you remind yourself that there WAS a human being involved here, that at some point, deranged or not, a mind made a conscious decision to go out there and kill others, and that's when that spooky feeling sets in: really, he's of the same species as me? Theoretically I could blow a fuse and do something like that? Someone around me could turn into a mass murderer and shoot me for no reason? Shoot a good friend, a good person for no reason? But that's really not fair...</p>

<p>And, of course, it isn't.</p>

<p>Disgusting, infuriating, and yet so very fascinating. Thanks for sharing that story, Jim.</p>
	 <p>Posted August 20, 2008  7:21 AM by Daniel Klein</p></content:encoded>
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         <pubDate>Wed, 20 Aug 2008 07:21:47 -0500</pubDate>
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         <title>Carl  Drega, Part III -- comment #6 from Kip W</title>
         <description>comment from Kip W on 20.Aug.08</description>
         <content:encoded><p>He didn't blow a fuse. He laid in supplies, made plans, nursed his imaginary grievances, and went cruising for victims. He was a fuse.</p>
	 <p>Posted August 20, 2008  9:21 AM by Kip W</p></content:encoded>
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         <pubDate>Wed, 20 Aug 2008 09:21:10 -0500</pubDate>
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         <title>Carl  Drega, Part III -- comment #7 from Daniel Klein</title>
         <description>comment from Daniel Klein on 20.Aug.08</description>
         <content:encoded><p>Okay, he didn't blow a fuse, you're right. Well, I guess you could argue that he stockpiled all this stuff to nurture some kind of violent revenge fantasy, and that then at some point something went click and he acted out that fantasy, but that doesn't make a difference in the long run. Somehow, this guy became very evil (unless we assume he was born evil) (I'm kind of on the side of nurture), and I doubt that it was because his daddy beat him too much or because aliens tested their mind-rays on him. My point was that such absolute and unprovoked evil is a possibility, that it does happen, and that scares me.</p>
	 <p>Posted August 20, 2008  9:39 AM by Daniel Klein</p></content:encoded>
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         <pubDate>Wed, 20 Aug 2008 09:39:19 -0500</pubDate>
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         <title>Carl  Drega, Part III -- comment #8 from Josh Jasper</title>
         <description>comment from Josh Jasper on 20.Aug.08</description>
         <content:encoded><p>*sigh*  Looks like a beautiful little town.  My parents have a home in a in similarly rural location in upstate NY.  Less birch trees though.</p>
	 <p>Posted August 20, 2008 10:03 AM by Josh Jasper</p></content:encoded>
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         <pubDate>Wed, 20 Aug 2008 10:03:29 -0500</pubDate>
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         <title>Carl  Drega, Part III -- comment #9 from Christopher Turkel</title>
         <description>comment from Christopher Turkel on 20.Aug.08</description>
         <content:encoded><p>So sad and tragic. Words escape me.</p>
	 <p>Posted August 20, 2008 10:24 AM by Christopher Turkel</p></content:encoded>
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         <pubDate>Wed, 20 Aug 2008 10:24:52 -0500</pubDate>
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         <title>Carl  Drega, Part III -- comment #10 from Mr. Chris</title>
         <description>comment from Mr. Chris on 20.Aug.08</description>
         <content:encoded><p>Thanks for the photos. I started to tear up just looking at the monument.</p>

<p>What really struck me, reading about this, was the heroism of the victims, how they all acted to protect the people around them. Whether they acted in the line of duty, like Scott Phillips, Leslie Lord, and the numerous law enforcement and medical personnel who responded to the incident, or whether they were ordinary citizens reacting to the sudden violence around them, like Vickie Bunnell, Dennis Joos, or the unnamed IGA employees trying to protect their customers, it sounds like they all contributed what they could to protect their community from a maniac who was hell-bent on destroying it.</p>

<p>Part of the reason I found the Ballad of Carl Drega to be both infuriating and deeply creepy was its tone-deaf refusal to acknowledge the heroism of the people who were caught up in the incident. Then I remembered how many internet arguments I've seen featuring rugged individualists who refuse to acknowledge the existence of communities, and I felt like I understood where Vin was coming from. If you're the kind of person who's so deeply alienated from the rest of humanity that you can't recognize the reality of human communities (and I get the impression that Vin is one of them), maybe you can't acknowledge the heroism of the victims because you can't even understand why they acted the way they did.</p>

<p>However heroic standing up for your own rights might be (and I hasten to emphasize that there's no evidence Drega was doing any such thing), I can't help but think it pales in comparison to the heroism of putting your own life in jeopardy to help save your friends, neighbors, coworkers, or whoever else happens to be nearby when disaster strikes. I find it sad that there are people who can laud the former sort of heroism while being unable to even recognize the latter; I find it terrifying when, like Vin, they feel the need to ascribe such heroism to someone as monstrous as Drega.</p>
	 <p>Posted August 20, 2008 10:59 AM by Mr. Chris</p></content:encoded>
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         <title>Carl  Drega, Part III -- comment #11 from Serge</title>
         <description>comment from Serge on 20.Aug.08</description>
         <content:encoded><p><b>Mr.Chris</b> @ 10... Ah, those rugged individualists... They probably can't contemplate that our simian ancestors would be extinct if they had been rugged individualistic apes.</p>
	 <p>Posted August 20, 2008 11:17 AM by Serge</p></content:encoded>
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         <pubDate>Wed, 20 Aug 2008 11:17:54 -0500</pubDate>
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         <title>Carl  Drega, Part III -- comment #12 from kouredios</title>
         <description>comment from kouredios on 20.Aug.08</description>
         <content:encoded><p>Thank you for sharing the story Jim.  It needs to be heard.</p>
	 <p>Posted August 20, 2008 12:16 PM by kouredios</p></content:encoded>
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         <pubDate>Wed, 20 Aug 2008 12:16:45 -0500</pubDate>
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         <title>Carl  Drega, Part III -- comment #13 from Debra Doyle</title>
         <description>comment from Debra Doyle on 20.Aug.08</description>
         <content:encoded><p>I've always gotten the impression, from what I've heard and read, that Drega was not much more than your common-or-garden variety cranky sonofabitch until his wife of many years died, at which point he started spiralling off into danger-to-society territory.  My guess is that all his connections to the world outside of his own head ran through her, and once she was gone . . . when the string is cut, the balloon drifts away.</p>
	 <p>Posted August 20, 2008  1:53 PM by Debra Doyle</p></content:encoded>
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         <pubDate>Wed, 20 Aug 2008 13:53:13 -0500</pubDate>
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         <title>Carl  Drega, Part III -- comment #14 from Fragano Ledgister</title>
         <description>comment from Fragano Ledgister on 20.Aug.08</description>
         <content:encoded><p>Xopher #1: At the bottom of his septic tank, perhaps?</p>
	 <p>Posted August 20, 2008  2:35 PM by Fragano Ledgister</p></content:encoded>
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         <pubDate>Wed, 20 Aug 2008 14:35:24 -0500</pubDate>
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         <title>Carl  Drega, Part III -- comment #15 from Foxglove</title>
         <description>comment from Foxglove on 20.Aug.08</description>
         <content:encoded><p>Jim, my heart aches for you and your community. I have nothing but admiration for your heros. Your three posts are an amazing memorial to them.</p>
	 <p>Posted August 20, 2008  3:11 PM by Foxglove</p></content:encoded>
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         <pubDate>Wed, 20 Aug 2008 15:11:34 -0500</pubDate>
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         <title>Carl  Drega, Part III -- comment #16 from Bruce Cohen (SpeakerToManagers)</title>
         <description>comment from Bruce Cohen (SpeakerToManagers) on 20.Aug.08</description>
         <content:encoded><p>The heroes of the affair must have monuments so that we can honor those of us who so deeply understand the need for community that they are willing to risk (and lose) their lives for it.  The villain needs one to, so we remember that there are people who reject community to the point of trying to destroy it.</p>

<p>The difference is that we need to remember our heroes' names, and the details of their lives, to fully honor them.  For the villains, it's best we forget their names and their lives, except for the evil they visited on their neighbors.</p>

<p>"Here lies the scumbag who killed 4 citizens, 2 of them law enforcement officers, for the crime of refusing to honor his whims. His name is written on sand."</p>
	 <p>Posted August 20, 2008  3:59 PM by Bruce Cohen (SpeakerToManagers)</p></content:encoded>
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         <pubDate>Wed, 20 Aug 2008 15:59:48 -0500</pubDate>
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         <title>Carl  Drega, Part III -- comment #17 from Xopher</title>
         <description>comment from Xopher on 20.Aug.08</description>
         <content:encoded><p><b>Fragano 14:</b> The Carl Drega Memorial Septic Tank?  Motto: "Perpetually full of shit."</p>
	 <p>Posted August 20, 2008  4:49 PM by Xopher</p></content:encoded>
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         <pubDate>Wed, 20 Aug 2008 16:49:06 -0500</pubDate>
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         <title>Carl  Drega, Part III -- comment #18 from Paula Helm Murray</title>
         <description>comment from Paula Helm Murray on 20.Aug.08</description>
         <content:encoded><p>Xopher, writ large on the inside bottom of the  septic tank...so it can continuously fall on him symbolically.</p>

<p>hey, it's Dante's fifth circle of Hell!  for the wrathful.</p>
	 <p>Posted August 20, 2008  5:00 PM by Paula Helm Murray</p></content:encoded>
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         <title>Carl  Drega, Part III -- comment #19 from Fragano Ledgister</title>
         <description>comment from Fragano Ledgister on 20.Aug.08</description>
         <content:encoded><p>Xopher #17: That seems about right. You should note that Ginger had the same thought.</p>
	 <p>Posted August 20, 2008  5:31 PM by Fragano Ledgister</p></content:encoded>
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         <title>Carl  Drega, Part III -- comment #20 from Lee</title>
         <description>comment from Lee on 20.Aug.08</description>
         <content:encoded><p>Bruce, #16: Yes. There is a smallish group of folks (I'm one of them) who are trying to spread the meme that the name of John Lennon's murderer  should never be spoken or written. He wanted "to be famous"; by letting his name wash away with the tide, we deny him that. </p>

<p>This seems like another case in which that treatment would be well-merited. <br />
</p>
	 <p>Posted August 20, 2008  7:37 PM by Lee</p></content:encoded>
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         <title>Carl  Drega, Part III -- comment #21 from James D. Macdonald</title>
         <description>comment from James D. Macdonald on 20.Aug.08</description>
         <content:encoded><p>Another anecdote <a href="http://saigh-allaidh.livejournal.com/339872.html" rel="nofollow">about Dennis Joos.</a></p>

<p>==========</p>

<p>At Scott's funeral Mass, Father Emil told us that we should pray for Carl Drega; and so we should.  He's in far more need of redemption than anyone else involved that day.</p>

<p>The person I find hard to love is Vinnie S., who is trying to bring about more such events in more places.</p>
	 <p>Posted August 20, 2008  8:39 PM by James D. Macdonald</p></content:encoded>
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         <pubDate>Wed, 20 Aug 2008 20:39:15 -0500</pubDate>
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         <title>Carl  Drega, Part III -- comment #22 from Xopher</title>
         <description>comment from Xopher on 20.Aug.08</description>
         <content:encoded><p>Thank you for that, James.  I was thinking that, but didn't want to say it in case it bothered you.</p>
	 <p>Posted August 20, 2008  8:47 PM by Xopher</p></content:encoded>
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         <title>Carl  Drega, Part III -- comment #23 from Ginger</title>
         <description>comment from Ginger on 20.Aug.08</description>
         <content:encoded><p>Fragano @19: Great minds do think alike. </p>
	 <p>Posted August 20, 2008  8:54 PM by Ginger</p></content:encoded>
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         <title>Carl  Drega, Part III -- comment #24 from Xopher</title>
         <description>comment from Xopher on 20.Aug.08</description>
         <content:encoded><p>But your great mind got there first, Ginger.</p>
	 <p>Posted August 20, 2008  9:43 PM by Xopher</p></content:encoded>
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         <pubDate>Wed, 20 Aug 2008 21:43:20 -0500</pubDate>
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         <title>Carl  Drega, Part III -- comment #25 from Ginger</title>
         <description>comment from Ginger on 20.Aug.08</description>
         <content:encoded><p>Xopher @ 24: I've shoveled and cleaned up enough poop (of various and sundry species) to know instantly where things like this ought to go. One of the benefits of my profession, as it were. </p>
	 <p>Posted August 20, 2008  9:48 PM by Ginger</p></content:encoded>
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         <title>Carl  Drega, Part III -- comment #26 from miriam beetle</title>
         <description>comment from miriam beetle on 21.Aug.08</description>
         <content:encoded><p>lee,</p>

<p><i>the meme that the name of John Lennon's murderer should never be spoken or written.</i></p>

<p>in european jewish tradition, whenever speaking the name of a righteous dead person, you add the phrase "zichrono livracha", may his memory be a blessing. conversely, when speaking of an evil dead person*, you add "yimach shemo," may his name be erased.</p>

<p>of course, we do end up talking about deceased evil people a lot, especially in the context of, you know, "we shall not forget," & as in harry potter, not naming someone can sometimes give their name more power.</p>

<p>still, my father will only refer to dlf htlr as "mr. yemach shemo."</p>

<p></p>

<p>* not <i>that</i> kind of evil dead, serge.</p>
	 <p>Posted August 21, 2008 12:10 AM by miriam beetle</p></content:encoded>
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         <pubDate>Thu, 21 Aug 2008 00:10:33 -0500</pubDate>
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         <title>Carl  Drega, Part III -- comment #27 from Serge</title>
         <description>comment from Serge on 21.Aug.08</description>
         <content:encoded><p><b>miriam beetle</b> @ 26... OK. No Bruce Campbell jokes.</p>

<p>If we leave the monster's name unspoken, don't we run the risk of having people forget what the monster did? On the other hand, people have lousy memory anyway.</p>

<p>I remember a column by Cynthia Tucker where she wrote against the death penalty for Timothy McVeigh. She felt that his punishment would have been far worse, with him being in prison while the nation flourished. That, of course, was written before 9/11.</p>
	 <p>Posted August 21, 2008 12:23 AM by Serge</p></content:encoded>
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         <title>Carl  Drega, Part III -- comment #28 from David Goldfarb</title>
         <description>comment from David Goldfarb on 21.Aug.08</description>
         <content:encoded><p>There was a man who burned down the great temple of Artemis at Ephesus, thousands of years ago, that his name might live -- in infamy, but live.  The city of Ephesus forbade the speaking or recording of his name.  We <em>do</em> have a name for him, but it dates from a couple of hundred years later and we're not certain that it's correct.  In any case, I won't repeat it here; anyone who wants to know can find it out easily enough.</p>
	 <p>Posted August 21, 2008  5:45 AM by David Goldfarb</p></content:encoded>
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         <pubDate>Thu, 21 Aug 2008 05:45:30 -0500</pubDate>
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         <title>Carl  Drega, Part III -- comment #29 from abi</title>
         <description>comment from abi on 21.Aug.08</description>
         <content:encoded><p>On the other hand, there's the Jesus Christ Superstar argument:<br />
<em>Then I saw thousands of millions, crying for this man.<br />
And the I heard them mentioning my name, and leaving me the blame.</em></p>

<p>This reflects a tradition that Pilate's wife's dream was nothing more than a vision of thousands of years of people saying <em> Crucifixus etiam pro nobis sub Pontio Pilato...</em></p>
	 <p>Posted August 21, 2008  6:18 AM by abi</p></content:encoded>
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         <pubDate>Thu, 21 Aug 2008 06:18:58 -0500</pubDate>
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         <title>Carl  Drega, Part III -- comment #30 from R. M. Koske</title>
         <description>comment from R. M. Koske on 21.Aug.08</description>
         <content:encoded><p>#20, Lee - </p>

<p>It might please you to know that I don't actually know the name of Lennon's murderer.  I passed by a TV running the AP feed yesterday, and he's apparently up for parole again.  My thought was "He's still alive?"  So he doesn't have much notoriety with me.</p>
	 <p>Posted August 21, 2008  8:28 AM by R. M. Koske</p></content:encoded>
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         <pubDate>Thu, 21 Aug 2008 08:28:47 -0500</pubDate>
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         <title>Carl  Drega, Part III -- comment #31 from Lee</title>
         <description>comment from Lee on 21.Aug.08</description>
         <content:encoded><p>Serge, #27: No, you talk about what the monster did -- as in, "John Lennon's murderer" -- you just don't attach the monster's name to it. That way he gets all the opprobium and none of the "fame". <br />
</p>
	 <p>Posted August 21, 2008 10:23 AM by Lee</p></content:encoded>
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         <pubDate>Thu, 21 Aug 2008 10:23:32 -0500</pubDate>
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         <title>Carl  Drega, Part III -- comment #32 from Adrian Smith</title>
         <description>comment from Adrian Smith on 21.Aug.08</description>
         <content:encoded><p>Doesn't sound like he wants the fame that much any more, having had some time for reflection.</p>
	 <p>Posted August 21, 2008 11:16 AM by Adrian Smith</p></content:encoded>
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         <pubDate>Thu, 21 Aug 2008 11:16:10 -0500</pubDate>
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         <title>Carl  Drega, Part III -- comment #33 from Fragano Ledgister</title>
         <description>comment from Fragano Ledgister on 21.Aug.08</description>
         <content:encoded><p>Ginger #25/Xopher #24: I've shovelled enough dung in my life too. Vinnie seems to want to bury himself in it.</p>
	 <p>Posted August 21, 2008 11:40 AM by Fragano Ledgister</p></content:encoded>
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         <pubDate>Thu, 21 Aug 2008 11:40:49 -0500</pubDate>
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         <title>Carl  Drega, Part III -- comment #34 from Ginger</title>
         <description>comment from Ginger on 21.Aug.08</description>
         <content:encoded><p>Fragano @ 33: The stinkiest stuff I can think of is snake poop, which is only too fitting. </p>

<p>This reminds me of all those bad lawyer jokes; i.e., what's the difference between a lawyer and a catfish? (One's a scum-sucking bottom-dweller, and the other's just a fish.) Now we can replace "lawyer" with "Vin" and really enjoy ourselves. In fact, I propose that we take any bad joke -- of whatever stereotype -- and replace the ethnicity/profession/other with "Vin", and see how well that works. </p>

<p>C@4l D43g@ -- yimah shemo -- will never be named again. </p>
	 <p>Posted August 21, 2008 12:39 PM by Ginger</p></content:encoded>
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         <pubDate>Thu, 21 Aug 2008 12:39:43 -0500</pubDate>
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         <title>Carl  Drega, Part III -- comment #35 from George Smiley</title>
         <description>comment from George Smiley on 21.Aug.08</description>
         <content:encoded><p>"The badge that saved Wayne’s life is on display in Concord now."</p>

<p>So that's why they call it a shield. Damn.</p>
	 <p>Posted August 21, 2008  1:41 PM by George Smiley</p></content:encoded>
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         <pubDate>Thu, 21 Aug 2008 13:41:51 -0500</pubDate>
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         <title>Carl  Drega, Part III -- comment #36 from Serge</title>
         <description>comment from Serge on 21.Aug.08</description>
         <content:encoded><p><b>Ginger</b> @ 34... Snake skat stinks worse than porcine poopoo?</p>
	 <p>Posted August 21, 2008  2:00 PM by Serge</p></content:encoded>
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         <pubDate>Thu, 21 Aug 2008 14:00:33 -0500</pubDate>
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         <title>Carl  Drega, Part III -- comment #37 from Terry Karney</title>
         <description>comment from Terry Karney on 21.Aug.08</description>
         <content:encoded><p>Ginger:  Snake dung is pretty foul... but pig... for sheer pungent potency, I think it takes the cake.</p>

<p>Snake has a certain power, but even a dozen in a closed room doesn't seem to match my memories of 10 hogs in stys on a hot day.  For one thing, at the other end of the house, you'd never know the snakes were there.  From half a mile (downwind) I could tell the hogs hadn't been cleaned yet.</p>
	 <p>Posted August 21, 2008  2:56 PM by Terry Karney</p></content:encoded>
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         <pubDate>Thu, 21 Aug 2008 14:56:42 -0500</pubDate>
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         <title>Carl  Drega, Part III -- comment #38 from wintermute</title>
         <description>comment from wintermute on 21.Aug.08</description>
         <content:encoded><p>Lee #20:<br />
<blockquote>Bruce, #16: Yes. There is a smallish group of folks (I'm one of them) who are trying to spread the meme that the name of John Lennon's murderer should never be spoken or written. He wanted "to be famous"; by letting his name wash away with the tide, we deny him that.<br />
This seems like another case in which that treatment would be well-merited.</blockquote><br />
Because that worked so well for <a href="http://www.qwantz.com/archive/001266.html" rel="nofollow">Herostratus</a>, right?</p>
	 <p>Posted August 21, 2008  3:03 PM by wintermute</p></content:encoded>
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         <pubDate>Thu, 21 Aug 2008 15:03:20 -0500</pubDate>
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         <title>Carl  Drega, Part III -- comment #39 from Ginger</title>
         <description>comment from Ginger on 21.Aug.08</description>
         <content:encoded><p>Terry @ 37: I originally thought of pigs, but those just make your eyes water and your lungs close up. The smell of snake poop embeds itself into the walls and floors, requiring multiple bleachings, sealing with paint, and eventual destruction of the room (complete removal and replacement). </p>

<p>Why, yes, the previous owners did have snakes. However did you guess?</p>
	 <p>Posted August 21, 2008  3:43 PM by Ginger</p></content:encoded>
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         <pubDate>Thu, 21 Aug 2008 15:43:39 -0500</pubDate>
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         <title>Carl  Drega, Part III -- comment #40 from Fragano Ledgister</title>
         <description>comment from Fragano Ledgister on 21.Aug.08</description>
         <content:encoded><p>Ginger #34: Never had to deal with snakes. Chicken dung was smelly enough. I've had to shovel a lot of goat and pig dung. A lot. But that was decades ago. And in another country. </p>
	 <p>Posted August 21, 2008  5:57 PM by Fragano Ledgister</p></content:encoded>
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         <pubDate>Thu, 21 Aug 2008 17:57:07 -0500</pubDate>
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         <title>Carl  Drega, Part III -- comment #41 from Terry Karney</title>
         <description>comment from Terry Karney on 21.Aug.08</description>
         <content:encoded><p>Ginger:  Then they didn't perform good care.  We have 50+ snakes, and it's noticeable, but not unbearable, nor yet ineradicable.</p>

<p>Now, the smell of snake puke.... that's up there with pigs.</p>
	 <p>Posted August 21, 2008  6:56 PM by Terry Karney</p></content:encoded>
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         <pubDate>Thu, 21 Aug 2008 18:56:21 -0500</pubDate>
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         <title>Carl  Drega, Part III -- comment #42 from Lee</title>
         <description>comment from Lee on 21.Aug.08</description>
         <content:encoded><p>Wintermute, #38: I'd happily settle for him being someone you have to click on a link to find out who he was. What he wanted was to be a "household name" -- and I won't give him that. "Lennon's murderer" is plenty good enough for the likes of him. </p>
	 <p>Posted August 21, 2008  8:34 PM by Lee</p></content:encoded>
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         <pubDate>Thu, 21 Aug 2008 20:34:54 -0500</pubDate>
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