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October 7, 2008

Dirtiest Campaign Ever
Posted by Jim Macdonald at 09:04 PM *

Cindy McCain is claiming that Barack Obama is running the dirtiest campaign ever.

Cindy McCain lashed out at Barack Obama Tuesday, telling a Tennessee newspaper the Illinois senator has waged the “dirtiest campaign in American history.”

Apparently, at least for the Republicans, talking about the issues is fighting dirty.

This is the place to mock the second Mrs. McCain for a) her ignorance of American history, and b) her ignorance of her own husband’s campaign.

(Use of rhymed verse, particularly to the tune of Rosin the Beau, Old Dan Tucker, or Grandfather’s Clock is particularly appreciated.)

Comments on Dirtiest Campaign Ever:
#1 ::: Adam Lipkin ::: (view all by) ::: October 07, 2008, 09:26 PM:

Well, in fairness, given McCain's weakness on the issues, attacking him there is the political equivalent of giving him a swift kick in the balls.

#2 ::: Josh Jasper ::: (view all by) ::: October 07, 2008, 10:13 PM:

She must have been out of her mind on drugs through the 2000 Republican primary, then.

#3 ::: ADM ::: (view all by) ::: October 07, 2008, 10:22 PM:

they really are desperate, aren't they? Obama really does need to stop rambling, though.

#4 ::: P J Evans ::: (view all by) ::: October 07, 2008, 10:36 PM:

She must have slept through her history classes.

(I remember some really nasty rumors in 1960.)

#5 ::: Kevin Riggle ::: (view all by) ::: October 07, 2008, 10:38 PM:

"Ma, Ma, where's my pa?
Gone to the White House, ha ha ha!"

#6 ::: pericat ::: (view all by) ::: October 07, 2008, 10:41 PM:

I've travelled all over this beerhall,
And now to another I go.
I know that fresh toadies are waiting
To welcome Miss Cindy the Slow.
To welcome Miss Cindy the Slow, dear,
To welcome Miss Cindy the Slow.
I've paid for a gaggle of toadies
To welcome Miss Cindy the Slow!

That man won't stop talking of 'issues',
He's got that Bush nailed to my John.
And if I can't be the First Lady,
They'll call me Miss Cindy the Pawn!
They'll call me Miss Cindy the Pawn, oh,
They'll call me Miss Cindy the Pawn.
I've stayed with John long past his 'sell-by',
They'll call me Miss Cindy the Pawn.

I've only this one consolation,
As I lie in this bed that I've made.
Whatever may come to me after,
At least I'm not Sarah the Fey'd!
At least I'm not Sarah the Fey'd, boys,
At least I'm not Sarah the Fey'd.
I may never be the First Lady,
But for sure never Sarah the Fey'd!

#7 ::: The Raven ::: (view all by) ::: October 07, 2008, 10:44 PM:

If the radical right says someone else is doing something repugnant, they're either thinking about doing it themselves, or actually doing it.

Caw!

#8 ::: Mark ::: (view all by) ::: October 07, 2008, 10:54 PM:

Raven @ 7 - Exactly. That's classic Karl Rove strategy - accuse your opponent of your worst fault, so that when you're accused of it yourself it sounds like a child responding to playground taunts with "no, you!"

#9 ::: Remus Shepherd ::: (view all by) ::: October 07, 2008, 11:06 PM:

This is the Karl Rove strategy. If you have a weakness, claim your opponent has it and attack him for it. If he has a strength, claim it as your own.

The entire goal is to even the polls. Make it look like you and your opponent are almost identical. Then they count on the fanatic religious right to push them to 51%. It's a very effective way of winning elections by close margins -- but winning them, which is what counts to these people.

It's not a bad strategy to take whatever they say, then assume the opposite is true.

#10 ::: rm ::: (view all by) ::: October 07, 2008, 11:21 PM:

Who's the short, bald stranger there?
Maverick is his name!
Driving his bus to who-knows-where
Muck is his companion
Slanderin' is his game

#11 ::: Lee ::: (view all by) ::: October 07, 2008, 11:22 PM:

McCain, he wed an heiress; he thought it would be cool.
He didn't know that Cindy was an idiotic fool.
Get along home, Cindy, Cindy,
Get along home, Cindy, Cindy,
Get along home, Cindy, Cindy,
Who needs you anyway?

It's been a long day and I'm dead-flat exhausted, too tired to think of any more verses. Have at!

#12 ::: Summer Storms ::: (view all by) ::: October 07, 2008, 11:27 PM:

Why, oh, why has my tired brain insisted on melding the concept of this thread with the slash thread from several weeks ago???

I'll spare you all any recitations of what may result. Thus far, I'm managing to keep results from actually occurring...

#13 ::: Madeline F ::: (view all by) ::: October 07, 2008, 11:44 PM:

The old man's campaign
Like the prodigal Dane
Merely blithered around 'til it died

His wife, full of tears
At the waste of her years
Lost her head and she wailed and she cried

"Oh how can it be
that a man black as he
Can run a campaign so damn white?

I shan't-- live-- in reality by day
For I certainly don't in the night."

#14 ::: Summer Storms ::: (view all by) ::: October 07, 2008, 11:45 PM:

(Damn, I really didn't mean to scare everyone away.)

#15 ::: Syd ::: (view all by) ::: October 08, 2008, 12:57 AM:

Johnny and Cindy, sittin' in a tree,
K-I-S-S-I-N-G!
First comes love, then comes marriage,
Then comes Johnny, with his vile, possibly PTSD-abetted temper, calling Cindy a nasty name in public, and Cindy using a charity to feed her drug habit, and I guess it's just been too much for her because now she's so delusional she thinks Obama's campaign is the the dirtiest on record, or maybe she's just lost a few too many brain cells to remember what Dubya did to Johnny in 2000...

Sorry about that. But the first tune that came into my head was a variant of "Frog Went A'Courtin'" with a really weird chorus ("ring-tum-boddie-mitchee-kam-bo!"), and "Ol' Dan Tucker" kept trying to conflate with "Ol' Man River" and I just didn't think it was going anywhere pretty.

Plus I suck at poetry at the best of times. Maybe something will come to me tomorrow...

#16 ::: Molly ::: (view all by) ::: October 08, 2008, 01:04 AM:

Speaking of dirty elections, I'm going to take this time to remember Garfield's election song from 1880 (used against Democratic candidate Winfield Hancock, a hero of the battle of Gettysburg, on the Union side).

Jeff Davis's name they'll proudly praise, aha, aha.
And Lincoln's tomb will be disgraced, aha, aha.
The nation's flag will lose its stars.
The stripes will change to rebel bars.
And we'll all wear gray if the Johnnies get into power.

#17 ::: elise ::: (view all by) ::: October 08, 2008, 01:22 AM:

Kevin Riggle @ #5: Yeah, that's what I was thinking.

#18 ::: miriam beetle ::: (view all by) ::: October 08, 2008, 01:39 AM:

molly,

Jeff Davis's name they'll proudly praise, aha, aha.
And Lincoln's tomb will be disgraced, aha, aha.
The nation's flag will lose its stars.
The stripes will change to rebel bars.
And we'll all wear gray if the Johnnies get into power.

ha, that made me smile. because the first time i heard it, it was being sung by jon stewart on the audiobook of sarah vowell's assassination vacation.

#19 ::: janetl ::: (view all by) ::: October 08, 2008, 01:40 AM:

Is clicking McCain
ads click fraud if you are a
leftie? click click click ...

#20 ::: Ambar ::: (view all by) ::: October 08, 2008, 01:58 AM:

Clearly a rewrite of The Kennedy Jig is in order:

Oh
your
dad has four stars
and his dad had four stars,
and your plane has gone down
and your plane has gone down
and your plane has gone down
and your wife's hooked on pills
and the Forrestal went down
and your campaign won't float

#21 ::: Bruce Cohen, SpeakerToManagers ::: (view all by) ::: October 08, 2008, 02:00 AM:

I gave up on the rhyme scheme; it was forced at best.

All in the campaign on the day,
As wicked words were traded,
Cindy McCain in anguish lay
For hatred of Obama.

She told reporters with her then,
At the place she was campaigning:
"Do not throw dirt on my husband dear,
If your name should be Obama."

Lies and slanders she made up,
And would not admit her lying;
And then she had the gall to say
"It's we should do the crying."

"O John's insulted, very very deep
And a' from Barack Obama."
"O the better for me you could never be,
Than that you lose the election!"

#22 ::: janetl ::: (view all by) ::: October 08, 2008, 02:40 AM:

The "dirtiest campaign ever" hyperbole reminds me of the 2004 campaign season, when there was a lot of talk of the US being the most polarized that it had ever been. A coworker reading the paper in the lunchroom sniffed and said, "I think the civil war was a bit more polarized".

#23 ::: vian ::: (view all by) ::: October 08, 2008, 02:52 AM:

Does anyone have an address for Cindy McCain? I have a pair of Big Girl's Panties for her.

#24 ::: Zander ::: (view all by) ::: October 08, 2008, 03:18 AM:

Yes, they've definitely decided that it no longer matters what they say or whether people believe them.

Raven @ 7: that's what's been worrying me about this talk of Obama being linked to terrorists who want to overthrow the government. If they're saying he's doing it, then...

I just think we should be watching them closely. And not just the posturing puppets on the podium.

#25 ::: Tom Barclay ::: (view all by) ::: October 08, 2008, 03:39 AM:

Zander, I'm afraid you're right. Very afraid. Distraction has always been an important tool of these bunco steerers and three-card monte artists.

#26 ::: Jenna Moran ::: (view all by) ::: October 08, 2008, 04:13 AM:

Sometimes it works perfectly well to say, "I'm rubber, you're glue, anything you say bounces off of me and sticks to you."

But sometimes it goes wrong.

It goes WRONG, horribly awry, and then you have something like this. Someone, some *group* even, some group is---*mutated*---by an imperceptible irregularity in the normal rubber-glue protocols, transformed from humans into projective speech people, their wails of suffering understood only as compassion.

Our health care system isn't up to the challenge of the projective speech people; they just bounce off of it and stick to the body politic. That's why there isn't any cure.

It's not that the doctors aren't trying! They just can't reach! There's too much politic organ in the way!

I think that's what happened to Senator McCain and his family.

They weren't trying to sacrifice the concept of truth. They just wanted something to bounce off of them and stick on someone else.

It was probably like a sticky ping pong ball or something.

It's a really sad story, probably; I mean, if we knew it, it would be. It wasn't how anybody wanted things to be.

#27 ::: edward oleander ::: (view all by) ::: October 08, 2008, 04:14 AM:

#7, 8, 9 -- Rove and His Ramblin' Republican'ts can't even come up with something new... I caught the Soviets doing the exact same thing in the '70's... And you have to think that it's been going on since Paranoia and Conservatism sprang out of Zeus' forehead as twins.

Trying to head off Political Slash (Thank YOU, Summer!) with Political Haiku...

What wrongs have I done?
Say the other guy does it.
I am so busted.

Republicans lie,
Accuse others of foul deeds,
Run in dark shadows.

I see Barack run,
Call him worst in history,
Break all my mirrors.

Seeking high and low,
Listen for bright right-wing truth.
What mighty silence!

Hearts brightly bleeding,
Signs of love and compassion,
John and Cindy's don't.

Vote Democratic
We may not be perfect but,
The G. O. P. blows.


#28 ::: SeanH ::: (view all by) ::: October 08, 2008, 05:18 AM:

Didn't one presidential candidate once insinuate that his opponent had sexual relations with swine? That's a tad dirtier. Really, I can't see how anyone could possibly buy this who wasn't already frothing at the mouth.

#29 ::: rm ::: (view all by) ::: October 08, 2008, 07:14 AM:

SeanH, I think the anecdote is about LBJ saying something like "Let's call him a pig-f***er," and an advisor saying, "But he's not a pig-f***er," and LBJ says "I know, but I want to make the bastard deny it."

#30 ::: rm ::: (view all by) ::: October 08, 2008, 07:28 AM:

Higgledy piggledy
John McCain called his op-
ponent a terrorist
black foreigner;

Cindy, who wins every
prize for projection, said
victimhood really be-
longed just to her.


#31 ::: Chris W. ::: (view all by) ::: October 08, 2008, 08:36 AM:

Hezero, Likenero,
John McCain, War Hero (TM)
Out of the book uses
Every attack.

So his wife Cindy now
Opportunistically
Tells all the Dems that
Their kettle's so black.

#32 ::: cleek ::: (view all by) ::: October 08, 2008, 08:56 AM:

Oh mama, Obama
Barack Hussein's gonna
Kick McCain's ass all the
Way back to 'nam

Debating, campaigning
And speaking, and spending
Obama the upstart
Shows how it's done

#33 ::: John L ::: (view all by) ::: October 08, 2008, 09:05 AM:

Palin's speech yesterday at Greenville, NC had all the hallmarks of something you might have seen in 1932, in a particular European country.

-charismatic speaker
-adoring crowd hanging onto every word
-code words in speech (nation, patriotism, family, etc)
-attacks on opponent using innuendo and half truths
-a 'let them connect the dots' strategy that gives her plausible deniability

It's no wonder there are racial comments and threats of violence made by the crowds at these rallies. Palin has learned her lessons on how to play to the crowd perfectly, but to everyone else her tactics are disgusting.

Our local media dutifully reported that Palin's rally at Greenville had 8000 in attendance, and they ran only one line of her speech on TV. Of course, it was one of the more inflammatory lines (the one she's repeated in Florida, about Obama starting his career "in the living room of a known domestic terrorist"), but nothing more.

While I would have preferred nothing of her speech being broadcast at all, that little of it is probably the best I can expect.

#34 ::: rm ::: (view all by) ::: October 08, 2008, 09:32 AM:

Chris at 31: perfect.

#35 ::: Lila ::: (view all by) ::: October 08, 2008, 09:48 AM:

Not gifted in the versifying strain this a.m., but I feel compelled to comment that Senator McCain has difficulty distinguishing the fundamentals of the economy from his own fundament.

As for Mrs. McCain--this is the woman who saw, only 8 years ago, the claim that her adopted Bangladeshi daughter was her husband's illegitimate multiracial child? Let alone pretty much *anything* the GOP has said about Obama in this campaign?

#36 ::: Michael Roberts ::: (view all by) ::: October 08, 2008, 10:11 AM:

This isn't strictly on topic, but it's political. That Particle in re the magical disappearing accent purporting to demonstrate Sarah W's deviousness -- I don't like that point. My own dialect wavers between Standard Middle American and Tennessee Hills depending on who I'm talking to and how "folksy" I want to sound; that modulation is an important information carrier in Indiana, where the cultures kind of mix anyway. I'm entirely prepared to believe the same of Palin. There are plenty of real things not to like about her (the beer-hall skills she's exhibiting being my favorite today) without that. It reminds me of the "too many blinks, indicating illness" thing Crooks and Liars is trying to pin to McCain; superficial.

Just my two bits. I kind of like Palin's speech habits, to be perfectly honest. In that regard, she wasn't a bad selection if you want to pander to the base -- as long as you ignore the content and the deer-in-the-headlights reaction to interviews.

#37 ::: Erik Nelson ::: (view all by) ::: October 08, 2008, 10:31 AM:

irrelevant cavil: I thought you put rosin on your bow. Putting rosin on your beau would be a more ticklish thing to do.

#38 ::: Cat Faber ::: (view all by) ::: October 08, 2008, 10:59 AM:

Educate Cindy McCain
lyrics by Cat Faber
tto "Rosin The Beau"

Her husband was losing the voters,
So Cindy arose to complain
Obama was playing too dirty
Let's educate Cindy McCain!

(chorus)
Let's educate Cindy McCain---
Let's educate Cinty McCain
She thinks that Obama plays dirty
Let's educate Cindy McCain!

Obama supported a program
Keep kids from sex-predator pain;
"Graphic sex-ed" McCain charges.
Let's educate Cindy McCain!

T'was only four years ago lately
The Swiftboating lies had free reign
To drown a real hero--John Kerry.
Let's educate Cindy McCain!

(insert new verses here)

"Rubber and glue" are the charges
That she has the nerve to maintain.
If we have to go back to the schoolyard--
Let's educate Cindy McCain!

#39 ::: Fragano Ledgister ::: (view all by) ::: October 08, 2008, 11:06 AM:

While I was reading this thread, the ghost of J*l** W*rd H*w* appeared before me and sang these words, saying that the chorus was obvious.

Has there ever been a whiner like unto Cindy McCain?
With expensive bottle-blondness, can't get in out of the rain;
Still she's out there a mud-slingin', though she hasn't got a brain --
Her hubby's marching on!

We have seen the midnight oil a burnin' in the weeping McCain camp
And Sarah Palin speaking, though she cannot light the lamp
Now that all the folk have fallen into rising dew and damp --
While's Johnny's droning on.

Now the common people worry about how to pay their bills,
While the bankers and the brokers they are running for the hills;
But Cindy she know's nothing, she is doped up to the gills --
While Johnny's farting on.

#40 ::: John Chu ::: (view all by) ::: October 08, 2008, 11:54 AM:

*sigh* Of course, the newspaper parroted her words giving them the newspaper's own credibility. Why do the press choose to serve as dupes for every half-baked lie that happens to fall out of someone's mouth?

Obama has comported himself with the dignity and honor that's been missing from the Republican campaign. And yet, no one challenges McCain on failing to run the campaign he, himself, said he'd run.

John McCain and Sarah Palin have come much closer to running the dirtiest campaign in history. Whether she intends to or not, she is whipping up hatred against people of color and members of the press. (Woe be to you if you are an African American sound man.) If she doesn't stop this soon, then it's clearly intentional. Shame on her.

#41 ::: Constance ::: (view all by) ::: October 08, 2008, 12:44 PM:

From my blog last night:

Who do you think immediately went talking with them when it was over, letting them talk to them, directly? Why, yes, it was Barack Obama AND Michelle Obama. People took pictures with their little disposable instamatics (no cell phones, no digital cameras allowed obviously, but this little sop they were given).

Michelle was there immediately engaging with members of the selected Tennessee viewers and questioners. Her husband was also -- and I gotta say, about 3/4 way through he was seeming a little tired.

So, howz bout that other team? As usual, Cindy trailed at least 3 steps behind John. She never spoke to a single memeber of the audience. She shook no hands. At one point it seemed somebody TOLD him to put his arm around her, which lasted of a nano, while not even looking at her. And then, she and her husband were gone, in less than two minutes.

For several minutes post the event the CNN feed kept live streaming what the cameras recorded. Brokaw was there, Michelle and Obama were still there, all three of them engaging the audience even as the streaming came to an end because, after all the talking heads couldn't wait to tell us what we'd seen and heard.

Love, C.

#42 ::: Fishwood Loach ::: (view all by) ::: October 08, 2008, 01:00 PM:

The history and origin of the word "maverick"


I thought this would interest people here.

#43 ::: albatross ::: (view all by) ::: October 08, 2008, 01:15 PM:

Constance #41:

Odd. I wonder what's going on there, and if this is related to McCain's rather abrupt decision to stop having unlimited press conferences right after the convention. Is he having a hard time being verbally spontaneous? Is he having a hard time containing his anger and frustration at the huge defeat he appears to be headed for? Is he just convinced that the media are completely on Obama's side, and so is trying to minimize their chances to screw him over?

The pattern of behavior here seems odd. I wish I knew what was going on.

FWIW, I didn't watch the debate. I've kind-of lost interest--I'm ODing on politics and financial market meltdown news right now, and I've long since decided how I'm voting. I'd benefit from spending a week or two just ignoring the news, I think. At the same time, it's fascinating, in a train-wreck sort of way. The global financial system and McCain's presidential campaign each, in their way, follow this pattern. The news just keeps getting uglier, decisionmakers toss in ill-considered or unlikely-to-help quick fixes, and the train wreck continues.

#44 ::: Tykewriter ::: (view all by) ::: October 08, 2008, 01:31 PM:

Hoffeemac, Toffee Mc
Cain and his henchperson
Wallow in shit while they
Peddle their lies.

Barack Obama who
’ll see the whole drama through
’s holding his nose, though he
Isn’t surprised!

#45 ::: Tim Hall ::: (view all by) ::: October 08, 2008, 01:35 PM:

And now we have violence in the streets of London caused by the US election

A man shot by a racist idiot for wearing a Barack Obama t-shirt. Fortunately the strict UK gun laws meant the cretin could only get hold of an air rifle, so the victim survived.

What's the odds that the racist in question had been surfing the hate whipped up by Palin on rightwing US websites?

What worries me is that when Obama wins, Palin's hate will be the inspiration for a whole generation of Timothy McVeighs.

#46 ::: Leslie in CA ::: (view all by) ::: October 08, 2008, 01:57 PM:

A platinum beer brewing heiress,
With millions to ease all her pain.
Poor Cindy's a suffering housewife,
But something has addled her brain.

But something has addled her brain, dear,
But something has addled her brain;
She thinks that the facts, they are dirty -
Oh, something has addled her brain.

Her husband has crawled through the gutter
And brought out the worst he could find.
But Cindy won't see - do you reckon
That something's gone wrong in her mind?

That something's gone wrong in her mind, dear,
That something's gone wrong in her mind;
She's bought one too many deceptions,
And something's gone wrong in her mind.

The press, once such flattering toadies,
Have stopped writing shameless hurrahs.
Now Cindy can't stand those reporters
Exposing John's manifold flaws.

Exposing John's manifold flaws, dear,
Exposing John's manifold flaws;
She can't have those ungrateful wretches
Exposing such manifold flaws.

So unpleasant facts are discarded,
And history's batted aside.
That one over there is the slimer,
The one that the press should deride.

The one that the press should deride, dear,
The one that the press should deride;
Poor Cindy has said up is down, and
That's something the press should deride.

Now pity the poor wealthy heiress,
And pity her poor addled brain,
And pity the one who must suffer
The temper of John S. McCain.

The temper of John S. McCain, dear,
The temper of John S. McCain;
He'll be such a jerk when he loses
That Cindy will lose it again.

#47 ::: Tom Scudder ::: (view all by) ::: October 08, 2008, 02:32 PM:

Wow, I was thinking about 26: What a perfect Hitherby Dragons pastiche.

Then I mous'd-over the name and saw why.

#48 ::: steve buchheit ::: (view all by) ::: October 08, 2008, 03:16 PM:

Hmm, she must have been too young to remember the 2000 Campaign and that whole "SE Asian Love Child" kerfluffle.

#49 ::: y ::: (view all by) ::: October 08, 2008, 03:38 PM:

(With apologies to Frank Hayes.)

Old Grandpa McCain had a temper so bad
That his wife had to plug up her ears.
He was shorter by half than his rival for Pres
Though the elder by twenty-five years.
When he unleashed the mud it became such a flood
She was stuck to the ground where it dried,
But she still said the dirtiest campaign
Was on the other side.
Terrorist sympathizer, splat, splot, splat, splot,
Uppity organizer, splat, splot, splat, splot,
She still said the dirtiest campaign
Was on the other side.

Now Grandpa McCain in the days of his youth
Was the craziest bastard in flight.
So he knew quite a bit about slinging the shit
And screwing around left and right.
But though years had congealed Grandpa's brain to Malt-o-Meal
He'd one wish that he could not deny:
"I just want to be the president
Once before I die!"
Ninety-four tax increases, splat, splot, splat, splot
Forty-two thousand dollars, splat, splot, splat, splot,
"I just want to be the president
Once before I die!"

Now Grandpa McCain knew he never could win
Without all the kooks and the nuts,
None of whom he'd attract for the love of McCain
But for hate of the other guy's guts.
So his platform he took all direct from Bush's book
And his facts he pulled out of his ass,
But when he'd flung all the dirt he had to fling,
He was out of gas!
Graphic sex educator, splat, splot, splat, splot,
Tire pressure inflater, splat, splot, splat, splot,
When he'd flung all the dirt he had to fling,
He was out of gas!

#50 ::: Lighthill ::: (view all by) ::: October 08, 2008, 05:05 PM:

"Oh John McCain's honest, and decent, and kind:
An solid rock set in a sandy land.
He's never left honor or fair play behind,
And I---am the Countess of Candyland!"

{Apologies to Parker, who could do better if she were here, and probably would.}

I rather liked the old McCain, whose "straight talk" Rove outjousted:
But some time in the last eight years, that old McCain got Fausted.
Faust gained the world and lost his soul. But what McCain forgot
Is sometimes, when you sell your soul, the Devil gives you squat.

#51 ::: Tracey S. Rosenberg ::: (view all by) ::: October 08, 2008, 05:51 PM:

John L@33 - because of a project I'm working on, I have a Google alert on Joseph Goebbels. Let's just say that the internet is making a hell of a lot of unflattering comparisons these days.

Michael@36 - I'm not sure what specifically you're referring to, but I just skimmed something online that pointed out that Palin's You Betchas etc. may be the result of some Minnesotans who moved to Alaska around the time of the Great Depression. Of course I now cannot pin down where I read this. Anyway - aha, there it is - I found that fascinating, and as an American who is occasionally (but ONLY occasionally) mistaken for Irish (??), I agree that accent changes aren't always a good indicator of anything important. I know plenty of expats whose accents change dramatically when they speak to their compatriots, and on many occasions I have been one of those expats, and I don't even notice when I do it.

#52 ::: Erik Nelson ::: (view all by) ::: October 08, 2008, 05:54 PM:

People have posted in earlier threads about the "false middle."

Perhaps the false middle is similar to what the physics textbooks call a moving reference frame.

#53 ::: Lenny Bailes ::: (view all by) ::: October 08, 2008, 06:47 PM:

Get out the way for John's speech stumping
His gaffe today is really something!

#54 ::: JESR ::: (view all by) ::: October 08, 2008, 07:30 PM:

There was an LJ post about Sarah Palin's accent which was linked here, or on my flist, or on my home posting board (and which I hope to relocate, but haven't yet) which pinged some old memories about the New Deal- a whole lot of dairy farmers from the lower 48 were relocated to the Matnuska Valley as part of the WPA, and the ones that stayed were mostly from the Upper Midwest. That's left its mark on the local accent. The Alaskans I know don't sound like her, but they're mostly from the panhandle or Fairbanks.

#55 ::: Paula Helm Murray ::: (view all by) ::: October 08, 2008, 09:06 PM:

The McCain ads running on our TV programming are such a loathsome pack of half truths and lies that I switch the channel even though I've usually only got the TV on for noise.

And Sarah Palin, yuck.

#56 ::: vian ::: (view all by) ::: October 08, 2008, 09:46 PM:

Lennie @ 53 ZOMFGBBQ! Did he really say that?

*rechecks video*

Knock me over with an anvil; he did.

Why isn't the media screaming alarums at this? Dysphasia in a prepared speech is bad enough, but "my fellow prisoners"? Is it PTSD? Is it dementia? Early-stage Alzheimer's?

Mind you, Sarah Palin's deer-in-the-headlights look was nice.

#57 ::: Linkmeister ::: (view all by) ::: October 08, 2008, 10:01 PM:

Hey, maybe he's feeling imprisoned by the Rove acolytes he's got working for him.

#58 ::: Marilee ::: (view all by) ::: October 08, 2008, 10:31 PM:

Well, my dysphasia tends to be more specific -- not just the same number of syllables and accent, but to start with the same sound. Then again, I have a lot of brain damage.

#59 ::: Craig R. ::: (view all by) ::: October 08, 2008, 11:28 PM:

The break room at work has a TV in it, and it is tuned mostly to CNN these days, so if I go for a soda or cuppa there's a good chance that there's somebody speechifyin'

A real marked contrast that has struck me over the last few days has been when the candidates talk about the opposing candidates.

When it's Biden or Obama speaking the audience is real quiet.

When it's McCain or Palin speaking the audience is growling and hissing like some demented beast.

And Mrs McCain thinks the democrats are running a nasty campaign...

#60 ::: Mike ::: (view all by) ::: October 09, 2008, 12:07 AM:

This Is Just To Say
by Cindy McCain

I have stolen
the husband
Viet Cong put
in a box

and whom
you were probably
savoring
in matrimony

Forgive me
he made me feel delicious
so sweet
then so cold

#61 ::: Michael Roberts ::: (view all by) ::: October 09, 2008, 01:16 AM:

Mike @60 - snort!

Finky-dink, hinky-dink
McCain's so rinky-dink
Saying that 'Bama's not
Really top gun

Just can't contain his rage
Shows every year of age
Finally breaks down
And calls him "that one".

(Minus one point for not having a neologistic adverb as the second line second stanza, but there you have it.)

#62 ::: Teresa Nielsen Hayden ::: (view all by) ::: October 09, 2008, 07:57 AM:

Jenna Moran (26), that's delectably logical non-logic.

#63 ::: Doug Hudson ::: (view all by) ::: October 09, 2008, 08:03 AM:

Whenever I hear complaints that politics today is "too dirty", I like to point out that during Washington's re-election campaign, his opponents implied that he was an agent/sympathizer of the British government! (per McCullough's brilliant biography of John Adams).

And the Adams-Jefferson campaigns were even nastier, if not quite as ridiculous (accusing Adams of being a monarchist and British sympathizer was slightly more reasonable.)

#64 ::: Teresa Nielsen Hayden ::: (view all by) ::: October 09, 2008, 08:50 AM:

I've been saying for some time now that a lot of the seeming irrationality of the right wing makes more sense once you understand that they've lost track of the whole democracy thing, and think their side is entitled to win. When they're momentarily forced to contemplate the Democrats winning, they reconcile the contradiction by saying it can only have happened because the Democrats cheated.

It was around this point in the election campaign back in 1996 that Bob Dole claimed Clinton was running the dirtiest campaign in American history. I remember being indignant about that, and thinking that Dole was clearly Losing It.

If you check out this transcript of CNN Late Edition, July 2000, you can see the squalid and shameless Haley Barbour jumping to that conclusion. It's right after Bob Shrum, then a senior adviser to the Gore campaign, uttered some plain truths about the Republicans' campaign:

SHRUM: You know, Haley. Let's try to get this down to a real level. You guys keep saying George Bush should get elected president because of his record. He's only been governor of Texas five and a half years. He doesn't have all that long a record.

And then you say, oh, don't examine that record.

And don't talk to me about personal kinds of campaigning. For Dick Cheney to get on the air this morning and say that it was an embarrassment -- that he wants to become vice president, and George Bush should be president, to end embarrassment for this country.

Let me tell you what's embarrassment. Embarrassment is what Dick Cheney did voting against the school lunch program, voting against feeding hungry kids. To me, that's an embarrassment.

BARBOUR: Well, I could -- you know, we're going to be on with Bob until all of November, and it will get shriller and shriller, and Gore will get louder and louder, and the Gore campaign will be the most negative campaign in American history...

Isn't that remarkable? Especially considering how that election played out. Even more so, when you consider which party has an ironclad record of using dirty campaign tactics.

#65 ::: Craig R. ::: (view all by) ::: October 09, 2008, 08:57 AM:

Teresa #64 --

The attitude of entitlement was brought home to me in the last election cycle, when I was perusing the lists of contributors to the various campaigns.

The name that came up, time and time again, for the GOP candidates was the Committee For The Permanent Majority.

#66 ::: Teresa Nielsen Hayden ::: (view all by) ::: October 09, 2008, 09:07 AM:

Craig: And that's an organization founded by people who have to have been aware that there's only one way you can have a permanent majority.

#67 ::: Serge ::: (view all by) ::: October 09, 2008, 09:09 AM:

Craig R @ 65... I thought that entitlement was a sin of the Democrats, who encourage the lazy lumpen proletariat to remain lazy and get paid to do so instead of looking for a job like all the real hardworking Americans.

(Which reminds me that I should fill up our backyard's bird feeder, what with the local avian fauna having been led by me to believe they were entitled to be fed.)

#68 ::: albatross ::: (view all by) ::: October 09, 2008, 10:00 AM:

Teresa #66:

I think this may also have been a case of the Republicans drinking their own kool-aid. Having convinced themselves that they would have Republican rule for the forseeable future, they acted in ways that would be disastrous if they ever lost power--for example, dismantling all kinds of checks on executive power that have direct and unsettling political implications (like massive warrantless wiretapping and other domestic surveillance, or sacking federal prosecutors for failing to act in sufficiently partisan ways w.r.t. election fraud cases) is nuts if you expect to be in the minority sometime soon, because you're giving those powers to the other side. Similarly, a take-no-prisoners war-to-the-end style of political conflict, in which you accuse your opponents of treason, smear them at every opportunity, play every game you can think of in the legislature to win your points (remember "the nuclear option?"), is pretty dumb if you're not going to be in the minority again soon--you're filling the other side with a deep desire for payback. And directly, overtly violating the written law on the theory that you can shelter behind claimed executive power is also something that doesn't work once if you think the other side will soon have that power. How is that routine about "I don't have to respond to subpoenas, I have executive privilege" routine going to work out when it's Obama in the white house and an overwhelmingly Democratic majority in both houses of Congress? My guess is that Karl Rove, John Yoo, Harriet Myers, etc., do, in fact, have to testify, or they will find themselves in jail.

The weird thing about this is that the election results don't support the "permanent majority" idea at all. Bush vs Gore was a tie (close enough to change the outcome by gaming the counting rules in Florida), and Bush vs Kerry was a very close victory (close enough that the alleged vote fraud in Ohio, if it happened as claimed, may have changed the outcome of the election). Wishful thinking and groupthink and echo chambers and American PravdaFox News weren't remotely enough to change the reality, which was that the country was pretty closely balanced between the two parties. I mean, this wasn't done after, say, the Reagan vs Mondale blowout or the Nixon vs McGovern blowout, where it might have made some sense.

At this point, the writing's on the wall. We have an opportunity to see how this wishful thinking bubble collides with the real world. We've seen a lot of Republicans respond to this already (and in 2006), by (for example) removing all mention of the word "Republican" from their campaign materials and getting "stuck in traffic" when Dick Cheney comes to run a fundraiser for them, so there are no pictures of the two of them together.

What happens now? Even dirtier campaigning (cf diminishing returns)? A sudden, urgent "need" to start bombing Iran? Release a new Osama Bin Laden video backing Obama because he's the agent of radical Islamists, as soon as they can find a good Osama look-alike willing to sign a really gnarly NDA?

#69 ::: Connie H. ::: (view all by) ::: October 09, 2008, 10:20 AM:

"USA! USA! USA!" is pretty much Republicanese for "Sieg Heil" these days.

#70 ::: rea ::: (view all by) ::: October 09, 2008, 10:27 AM:

Wishful thinking and groupthink and echo chambers and American PravdaFox News weren't remotely enough to change the reality, which was that the country was pretty closely balanced between the two parties.

Ah, but remember this:

The aide said that guys like me were "in what we call the reality-based community," which he defined as people who "believe that solutions emerge from your judicious study of discernible reality." ... "That's not the way the world really works anymore," he continued. "We're an empire now, and when we act, we create our own reality. And while you're studying that reality—judiciously, as you will—we'll act again, creating other new realities, which you can study too, and that's how things will sort out. We're history's actors…and you, all of you, will be left to just study what we do."

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Reality-based_community

#71 ::: Lin D ::: (view all by) ::: October 09, 2008, 10:37 AM:

YOMANK warning

A friend sent me this. I 'bout laughed myself sick.

From Wonkette, Barack Obama’s $3 Million Overhead Projector Made Of Pork

One commenter said:

Of course he doesn’t know about technology. McCain’s so old, he remembers when Betelguese was a main sequence yellow.

(I did warn you.)

#72 ::: Nangleator ::: (view all by) ::: October 09, 2008, 10:57 AM:

rea @70, sounds like something you'd hear from a fall-of-Rome movie, said with a sneer and the dismissive flip of a velvet cape as the Pontifex Maximus walks away.

#73 ::: Lizzy L ::: (view all by) ::: October 09, 2008, 11:30 AM:

PBS is running a poll asking whether Sarah Palin is qualified to serve as VP of the US. Right now it's tied Yes and No, which is absurd.

Care to vote?

Here's the link.

#74 ::: Lee ::: (view all by) ::: October 09, 2008, 12:00 PM:

albatross, #68: And this is exactly why arguments of, "Do you really want to hand that kind of power to the Democrats?" never penetrated. These people, and the ones who supported them, never expected to lose power again. There was no reason for them to behave accountably, because they didn't believe they would ever be held to account.

Now it's blindingly obvious that the only way they're going to continue in power after this election is by an open coup of some kind, and they've been preparing for it for years. The takeover at the DOJ, the infiltration of Dominionists in the Army and Air Force command structures, the return of one military force to our country with the direct assignment of "dealing with civil disturbances"* while the rest of the Armed Forces are overseas, overstressed, and undersupplied... I think it was someone here who pointed out that they're following Heinlein's strategy for overthrowing a government almost to the letter.

And don't forget that during the run-up to the 2000 elections, they were accusing Clinton of intending to cancel the election and become President-for-Life. That fits altogether too well with the pattern of "accuse your opponents of doing what you plan to do yourselves".

as soon as they can find a good Osama look-alike willing to sign a really gnarly NDA
NDA, my ass. If they actually pulled that stunt, they'd just arrange a neat little accident soon afterwards -- or promise the agent a one-way ticket to Brazil and then disappear him. You don't leave that kind of loose end in an operation that major.

* Yes, I've heard the whole "the military would rise up against them" argument. But they've spent a lot of time and effort recruiting people who share their worldview, and I wouldn't put it past them to have shuffled assignments until a lot of the bad apples are in the same barrel -- and then to bring that specific barrel back here.

#75 ::: Avedaggio ::: (view all by) ::: October 09, 2008, 12:07 PM:

Lizzy @ 73-- Apparently the right wing got wind of that survey first, and they've been flooding it with 'yes' votes. I've done my part; now spread it to every reasonable person you know.

#76 ::: PurpleGirl ::: (view all by) ::: October 09, 2008, 12:07 PM:

The PBS poll has been up for a few weeks now. Interestingly, they are now registering the computer/IPS link (or whatever/however) the vote comes from to avoid poll packing. Those lines about "registering your first vote..." weren't there other times when I voted. The percentage had been going up and down for Obama or McCain as people were trying to get their man up. I've seen the numbers at 51% to 49% and back and forth for days, but always with the total being around 98% with 2% not showing for "not sure".

#77 ::: Erik Nelson ::: (view all by) ::: October 09, 2008, 12:22 PM:

#57 ::: Linkmeister ::: (view all by) ::: October 08, 2008, 10:01 PM:

Hey, maybe he's feeling imprisoned by the Rove acolytes he's got working for him.

---------

That reminds me of one of the concerns I've been thinking of saying something about for a while: one thing about elderly people is they sometimes eventually lose control of who they are surrounded by. So if that happens, the trend will be towards the president becoming a puppet of his advisors.

#78 ::: Cat Meadors ::: (view all by) ::: October 09, 2008, 12:27 PM:

My mom sent me that PBS poll a couple of weeks ago - it's been pretty well packed for the right from the beginning. (When she sent it to me, the question was something else, but it was 98% in favor of McCain/Palin.) It is nice to see they've done something about multiple votes, even as meaningless as that poll is anyway.

#79 ::: P J Evans ::: (view all by) ::: October 09, 2008, 12:46 PM:

#76
I bet it puts a cookie on your computer. Deleting cookies and history after you vote will probably fix that.

#80 ::: Joel Polowin ::: (view all by) ::: October 09, 2008, 12:57 PM:

I bet it puts a cookie on your computer. Deleting cookies and history after you vote will probably fix that.

Doesn't look like it. I set my secondary browser to report/block cookies, then went back to the site, and still wasn't able to vote again. My best guess is IP logging.

#81 ::: Martin DeMello ::: (view all by) ::: October 09, 2008, 01:00 PM:

Higgledy piggledy
Cindy McCain, in a
Display of ignorance
Few could surpass,

Whined to the nation that
Obama's campaign was
Unprecedentedly
Lacking in class

#82 ::: Mary Frances ::: (view all by) ::: October 09, 2008, 01:04 PM:

The link to the article "About the Sarah Palin Poll" says that PBS is using cookies . . . I honestly can't tell what's going on, partly because I got the same answer ("Your vote has registered") after voting the first time and all subsequent times, with or without cookies.

The article also makes a point of reminding everyone that this isn't a scientific poll, but only sort of a "Rorschach" blot of public opinion.

#83 ::: ajay ::: (view all by) ::: October 09, 2008, 01:08 PM:

I don't much like this thread, to be honest, and I wish someone would post another one.

#84 ::: Martin DeMello ::: (view all by) ::: October 09, 2008, 01:26 PM:

lighthill@50: that's delightful :)

#85 ::: Jeff ::: (view all by) ::: October 09, 2008, 01:30 PM:

Mike @ 60: Genius. And actually touching, if I can forget who the real people are it's talking about. Well done.

#86 ::: Chris Quinones ::: (view all by) ::: October 09, 2008, 01:44 PM:

Linkmeister, 57: Maybe he's sending us a message: "Help, I'm trapped in a Karl Rove campaign!"

#87 ::: Linkmeister ::: (view all by) ::: October 09, 2008, 02:38 PM:

Chris @ #86, well, he gets no lifeline from me until after November 4, when I'll be gracious toward what I devoutly hope is the landslide loser.

(Election Day falls on my birthday this year; can you guess what I'd really really like?)

#88 ::: Tom Barclay ::: (view all by) ::: October 09, 2008, 02:41 PM:

Meanwhile, from today's NYT, comes word Diebold – again! – wants ensure the Republic is only as much a democracy as the plebians can handle:

In the case of Diebold, votes are being dropped when they are transferred from individual machines to the central server in a county's election headquarters.
When an election worker inserts the memory card from a machine into the server, a green arrow is supposed to light up after all of the votes have been uploaded and added to the county's totals. In some cases, the green arrow is wrong, and none of the votes have been added.

Jeebus Crust! Do I need to be a certified EE to be an effective pollwatcher?

#89 ::: Paula Lieberman ::: (view all by) ::: October 09, 2008, 02:53 PM:

#88 Tom
Researchers from both MIT and Caltech went thumbs down on Diebold voting machines.... the equipment is tamper-attractive and tamper-friendly, there's no audit trail.... they can be reprogrammed with impunity and no traceability, etc.

I'm appalled that they haven't been trashed and Diebold forced to pay remuneration and punitive fines for replacement systems for other vendors which have credible audit trails.

#90 ::: Paula Lieberman ::: (view all by) ::: October 09, 2008, 03:06 PM:

#60 Mike

I think that "Viet Cong" is inaccurate there; I believe that McCain was shot down over North Vietnam. The Viet Cong were South Vietnam natives, not North Vietnamese.

The fate of US aircrew shot down over South Vietnam, tended to be one of fatally injured in the shootdown or aftermath (injured with the plane getting in, injured or killed in crash landing, ejection, parachuting (if the parachute worked) to the ground, landing, etc.), rescued, or killed on the ground by hostile forces (long ago in Cheyenne Mountain, there was a quiet midshift, in a corridor outside the upstairs area of the Command Center, where my boss at the time, who'd flown C-130 cargo planes during a tour in Vietnam, and one of the Command Center staff, who's been a controller in Vietnam, were swapping stories... the controller was telling stories about rescues, or attempts to rescue, downed aircrew in South Vietnam (the rescue of aircrew of planes shot down in North Vietnam, involved the aircrew having to get across the border first.... I worked with a retired Marine colonel who managed that. The guy in the back seat of his plane was less fortunate, the difference in time between ejection from the front seat and the back seat of the plane, was the difference in distance between being able to get across the border and to rescue, and getting captured in North Vietnam and being incarcerated in the same place as John McCain was stuck in).

#91 ::: Serge ::: (view all by) ::: October 09, 2008, 03:18 PM:

ajay @ 83... How about some punning?

#92 ::: Mike ::: (view all by) ::: October 09, 2008, 03:25 PM:

Thanks, Paula. It's a strawman anyway, but the truth is good to know.

#93 ::: Lance Weber ::: (view all by) ::: October 09, 2008, 03:32 PM:

Quick litmus test. What do you think the respective candidates reactions would be?
Cook County (IL) Sheriff Suspends Foreclosures

#94 ::: Lance Weber ::: (view all by) ::: October 09, 2008, 03:42 PM:

Oh man it's getting bad and we have another month of incitement to riot to go. Check out these McCain-Palin rally members saying "Obama is a Terrorist" on camera.

I Hate Being a Nut-Job Thought #12,748: The October Martial Law Surprise scenario never seemed plausible because I figured it'd be targeted at Democrats, but what if you radicalize the Republican conservative base and incite them to riot in places across the nation? I mean if ever there was a group most likely to be manipulated into militant fundamentalist terrorists...sheesh, I really really hate having to think like a nut job.

#95 ::: Lee ::: (view all by) ::: October 09, 2008, 04:13 PM:

Martin, #81: Hi! I was wondering when you'd weigh in, since that form is one of your specialties.

Mary Frances, #82: Two words: self-selected group.

Lance, #94: what if you radicalize the Republican conservative lunatic-neocon-racist base
FTFY. :-)

Seriously, I believe that people who have already been encouraged to think of themselves as "God's Warriors, answering to a Higher Law" are easier targets for rabble-rousing than ordinary conservatives.

And what Randolph said elsewhere about Palin being willing to reap the hate crop the Republicans have been sowing for 25 years... that rings very true to me.

#96 ::: albatross ::: (view all by) ::: October 09, 2008, 04:43 PM:

Lance #93:

Other question: What fraction of people formerly (barely) paying their mortgages in Cook County will now decide not to? What effects might it have if this becomes widespread?

I really don't know. Maybe none--maybe having your credit ruined, or knowing that the end of the crisis will likely lead to your being forced to leave your house sooner or later, is enough deterrent to keep you paying your mortgage.

That said, I think Obama would say whatever seemed most likely to get him elected in response, and McCain would say whatever random thing popped into his head about it, tempered (slightly) by whatever positions his campaign people had tried to drill into him. Long term, it absolutely is not going to be okay for local officials to decide to refuse to honor debts or contracts that require locals to pay money to people in other towns or states.

#97 ::: P J Evans ::: (view all by) ::: October 09, 2008, 04:54 PM:

albatross @ 96
It's actually about foreclosure and eviction of renters, who don't even know the place they're renting is going into foreclosure, and aren't getting the required notice before being evicted by the mortgage-holders (usually banks).

#98 ::: abi ::: (view all by) ::: October 09, 2008, 05:36 PM:

So how, if at all, does the fact that the McCain campaign has no transition team fit in?

1. He doesn't really expect to win, and is therefore not spending the money or the staff on that possibility.

2. He underestimates the task and plans to shoot from the hip.

3. <tinfoilhat>The transition will not take place in January, but at some other time, under firm control</tinfoilhat>

#99 ::: Rosa ::: (view all by) ::: October 09, 2008, 05:54 PM:

Eviction of renters is a problem here, too - and in any locality, local rental laws apply (and should have been considered by the lenders/investors in the lenders, just like liens and other issues with the property.

In most places, if you have a lease, the new owner of a property "owns" it when they buy the property, and has to abide by it. I don't know what the relevant mortgage foreclosure law says about that, but banks are clearly not checking to see if tenants were properly notified of foreclosure proceedings.

This is just one more issue of collateralized debt - if you bundle mortgages from a bunch of different areas, is there any chance the buyers are aware of local property and rental law?

#100 ::: Rob Rusick ::: (view all by) ::: October 09, 2008, 07:18 PM:

abi @98: He underestimates the task and plans to shoot from the hip.

Same approach used for the post-Saddam Iraq transition (actually, in that case, there were plans worked out; they were just ignored).

#101 ::: albatross ::: (view all by) ::: October 09, 2008, 11:07 PM:

PJ: Arghh! I am a victim of reading the headline and not the article.

Rosa: I think the CDOs have some kind of organization in place for management of the mortgages--this is necessary to cash the mortgage checks, deal with the previous (much lower) default rate (including reselling the house), send out late notices, etc. Isn't that organization capable of negotiating terms on repayment?

#102 ::: P J Evans ::: (view all by) ::: October 09, 2008, 11:37 PM:

#99
Been there, done that. The new owners did everything they could to get the tenants out who came with the apartment complex - many had been there for several years, and were paying much less than the going rate for units of that size. They also made it unpleasant for those who didn't leave voluntarily.

#103 ::: Lighthill ::: (view all by) ::: October 09, 2008, 11:43 PM:

Martin@#84: Thanks! I'm glad you liked them.

#104 ::: Lighthill ::: (view all by) ::: October 10, 2008, 05:25 PM:

[Spoken] "America, I feel great today! I'm goin' through all my trash, just throwin' it around and lookin' at it. It makes a war hero feel great just lookin' at at his trash once in a while, eh America? Just lookin' at this trash makes me feel so good... that I feel like singing!"

Oh, we need trash!
Anything fetid, or fungal, or fuzzy!
Anything slanderous, slimy, or scuzzy!
Oh, we need trash!

[Spoken] "Now just look at this if you want to see something terrific!"

This beautiful mailing from ol' '52
Implies Ike's a commie, and calls him a Jew:
We'll swap the religions, and send it to you,
We need it because it's trash!

And we need trash!
Anything biased or bogus or baseless,
Anything tawdry or tacky or tasteless,
Oh we need trash!

[Spoken] "Now here's one that I'm sure will stand the test of time!"

This gem comes from Karl Rove just two cycles back,
Who asks how you'd feel to learn that Barack,
Had fathered two children, the both of them black?
Karl loves it because it's trash!

And we need need trash!
Anything insane, insipid, insulting!
Anything rotten, repulsive, revolting!
Oh we need trash!

[Spoken] "Am I still behind in the polls? Okay, get a load of these beauties!"

His campaign is dirty, he's eying your guns,
He might be a muppet, he fancies your sons!
Is none of this sticking? We've hardly begun,
And we need,
we need,
we need trash!

[ http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=L9fwjox49Wk ]

#105 ::: Martin DeMello ::: (view all by) ::: October 11, 2008, 12:08 PM:

Lee@#95: Hi! Fancy seeing you here :)

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