OUR CAPTAIN CALLS

Our captain calls all hands
To sail tomorrow.
Leaves many a fair pretty girl
In grief and sorrow.
What makes you go abroad
Fighting for strangers,
When you could stop at home
Free from all dangers?

When I had gold in store
You did invite me
Now that I'm low and poor
You seems to slight me
Dry off your brandy tears
And leave off weeping
For happy shall we be
At our next meeting

You courted me a while
Just to deceive me
Now my heart you have gained
You mean to leave me
Saying there's no belief in man
Not my own brother
So girls if you can love
Love one another.

On Tools

"If men learn this, it will cultivate weakness in their arms; they will cease to exercise because they rely on that which is manufactured, shaping will into action no longer from within themselves, but by means of external aids. What you have discovered is a recipe not for strength, but for crippling. And it is no true power that you offer your disciples, but only its semblance, for by giving them the command of many things without teaching them you will make them seem to control much, while for the most part they control nothing, and as men filled, not with strength, but with the conceit of strength, they will be a burden to their fellows."

I mean really Plato, sometimes.

*snort* Eye-rolling about Plato. Only here.

JMD:
A recruiting sergeant came our way
To the inn nearby at the close of day.
He said "Young Johnny, you're a fine young lad;
Would you like to march along behind a military band?"

Today's long story on All Things Considered was about the number of people reupping, one of them for six years, because they felt they had a better chance of making a living and/or providing for their families if they had a solid contract.

If men learn this, it will implant forgetfulness in their souls; they will cease to exercise memory because they rely on that which is written, calling things to remembrance no longer from within themselves, but by means of external marks...

This belongs to a whole class of predictions that seem to us (at first blush) wrong, since they are said in such a dire way (in this case, the remainder of the quotation) that, looking around, we can't reconcile the dire tone with our lives. But looked at more closely, they turn out to be right -- in this case, widespread writing really did reduce the "arts of memory" that were used to enable people to remember lots of things (including large chunks of texts) that they needed to remember before they could write it down. (Some of this was transition from no writing to writing, but much of it was from writing to print, i.e. writing to practically affordable writing.) It's just that this transition wasn't as terrible as it seemed at the time -- or, at least, that we have become accustomed to it.

As I said, I think there are a lot of prophecies like that: ones that aren't so much wrong as simply said in a tone of voice that turns out to be unwarranted. One other example that comes to mind is the various arguments by pro-slavery folks (and assorted other racists in the years between slavery and the end of Jim Crow) that ending slavery (or, mutatis mutandis, whatever racist practice/law they were defending) would lead to intermarriage, African Americans being considered equal, getting elected to high office, etc. This turned out, in its way, to be true: it's just that now we'd say thank God rather than shutter in horror as those who were predicting it did (or deny it, as their less-racist-but-still-by-contemporary-standards-racist opponents would).

But I bet people here could come up with some others...

While studying abroad in Athens last spring I took a philosophy class. We read rather a lot of Plato, and I came to strongly suspect my professor modeled himself after Socrates.

...But for the most part I'm convinced he knew nothing, and as men filled, not with wisdom, but with the conceit of wisdom, his rambling lectures became a burden to me and the rest of the class.

Kind of a shame, really. Studying Plato in Athens should've been fantastic.

This being the blessing and curse of the Internet -- everything there to be found, so there's no need to do the thinking somebody else has already done.

The analogy with tools strikes me as the best: writing allows some things that just aren't possible without it, just as physical tools change the way we deal with physical objects. Can you imagine what Plato would have thought of James Joyce?

And there are many places where one can disparage Plato. Some even welcome it as an ideal pastime.

"If men learn this, it will implant forgetfulness in their souls; they will cease to exercise memory because they rely on that which is written, calling things to remembrance no longer from within themselves, but by means of external marks..."

I love that this was written down.

Here's a larger extract: Plato on Writing. It's got a number of great bits. As for what's quoted above, I think Theuth is actually correct: "my invention is a recipe for both memory and wisdom."

Another piece everyone who writes on the web already knows or should know: "Once a thing is put in writing, it rolls about all over the place, falling into the hands of those who have no concern with it just as easily as under the notice of those who comprehend; it has no notion of whom to address or whom to avoid. And when it is ill-treated or abused as illegitimate, it always needs its father to help it, being quite unable to protect or help itself."

Tom Whitmore @ 8: And there are many places where one can disparage Plato. Some even welcome it as an ideal pastime.

Karl Popper's The Open Society and its Enemies, for example, really chews him a new one.

Plato predicted the internet? That's impressive.

will (#10), that quote could be a good one to tie into the QueryFAIL thread.

it will implant forgetfulness in their souls

There is only so much that a human brain can handle, Herbert's mentats notwithstanding. Besides, isn't he being elitist? Storing memories and knowledge outside of brains levels the playing field and allows those of us who are not geniuses to have access to some of those same resources.

Ah, the irony of that being written down.

And, as Steven Frug said, it's true, in a false way. My library science, and copyediting, instructors told me, repeatedly, "It's not what you know, it's what you know how to look up."

I have a pretty good memory, but I there is no way I can recall all I want to know. I can look it up, which also means I have a lot more information ready to hand. I can use that to make better decisions, arguments, etc. I can synthesize a lot more too.

As to music: That song always chokes me up.

So too these.

The Recruting Sergeant
(youtube)
written by Bob Hallett / Based on traditional)

Two recruiting sergeants came to the CLB,
For the sons of the merchants, to join the Blue Puttees
So all the hands enlisted, five hundred young men...
Enlist ye Newfoundlanders and come follow me

They crossed the broad Atlantic in the brave Florizel,
And on the sands of Suvla, they entered into hell
And on those bloody beaches, the first of them fell...
Enlist ye Newfoundlanders and come follow me

CHORUS:
So it's over the mountains, and over the sea
Come brave Newfoundlanders and join the Blue Puttees
You'll fight the Hun in Flanders, and at Galipoli
Enlist ye Newfoundlanders and come follow me

The call came from London, for the last July drive
"To the trenches with the regiment, prepare yourselves to die"
The roll call next morning, just a handful survived.
Enlist ye Newfoundlanders and come follow me

CHORUS

The stone men on Water Street still cry for the day
When the pride of the city went marching away
A thousand men slaughtered, to hear the King say
Enlist ye Newfoundlanders and come follow me

Great Big Sea

What's amazing/sad/wonderful (in all they ways such things are) is Newfoundland didn't join Canada until 1949. They didn't have to go.

A Chance as Good as Any

Oh the musket fires a bullet, and it’s battle black and bonny-o
None can fire sa’ straight an’ true as my boy Johnny-o
To fire upon the enemy, the sergeant gies him money-o
Maybe he’ll come back again, a chance as good as any-o

The fife sounds sweetly you can hear it fine and dandy-o
None can play so sweet and clear as my boy Sandy-o
To keep the boys from thinking, the sergeant says it’s handy-o
It’s cheaper than a tot o’ rum, and no so dear as brandy-o

The drum beats loud o’er the rattle o’ the canon-o
My boy Willie plays upon it as he’s standin’-o
The sergeant makes him beat so loud, you’d hear the noise in London-o
For when they’re listenin’ tae the drum, they never think of runnin-o

There’s Marshals and MacGregors, there’s McGiulderies and Mathethens
Bonny boys from Bonnie Brae and lucky lads from Latheston (?)
Apprentices from raw recruits, and squaddies made from journeymen
If any had a job at home, you’d never see them back again

Left, Right!, March and fight, try to show your willin'-o
Follow the musket, fife and drum, mind you take the schillin'-o
And if you sit and rue the day you ‘listed for the government
You can hear the Sergeant laughing... 'cause he’s got you in his regiment

Battlefield Band

Serge: This is Plato, of course he's being elitist. He was an enemy of democracy.

When this lousy war is over no more soldiering for me,
When I get my civvy clothes on, oh how happy I shall be.
No more church parades on Sunday, no more begging for a pass.
You can tell the sergeant-major to stick his passes up his arse.

Ah, the irony of that being written down.

Well, if it wasn't, we'd have forgotten about it by now, wouldn't we?

This is Plato, of course he's being elitist. He was an enemy of democracy.

Clearly he should have been rounded up and sent to a prison camp somewhere he would have no rights. Oh, hold on, you mean real democracy, don't you?

Terry Karney @ 16... Yeah. We big monkeys don't want the ones who are less endowed in their physical nature to have a shot at it. Technology, the great equalizer.

CHip, #4: First thing I thought of, too. That's just about the finest, most chilling version I've ever heard anywhere.

xeger, #7: Ah, but I learn from other people who have had the same thoughts as I how best to defend them against those who would argue otherwise. And sometimes I find something which turns my whole worldview in a different direction. Maybe some people wouldn't call that gaining wisdom, but I do.

I love that this was written down.

Well, the Tao te Ching does the same thing. It opens by saying the way that can be spoken is not the true way, then continues for 81 chapters.

And when they say it implants forgetfulness in our souls, I haven't heard anyone actually discredit this notion. Writing, like any art or religion, is a commodification of our experience. Words and idols are not the things they represent. You can't smoke from a painting captioned "This is not a pip." If we accept that we can't have our cake and eat it too, how does writing to commodify our experience not deaden it?

Is a conversation less alive for relying on writing? Are friendship and love less real for being without physical proximity?

Re what Stephen said @ #5: I used to memorize frequently-used phone numbers without trying, but with a cell phone I call people by selecting them off a menu, not by entering the actual numbers. Therefore I do not know my own children's phone numbers, though I call them several times a week.

Serge @ #22: Is a conversation less alive for relying on writing? Are friendship and love less real for being without physical proximity?

The conversation and the writing are the menu. Our trust in the access to each other we earn is the meal.

I'm totally in favor of memorization and recitation, particularly of poetry.

Mike @ 24... True, but the same could be said of the spoken word. Sometimes, the latter is not a possible path to the meals of friendship and love.

As for what Lila said... I can't memorize each and every phone nbr that I need for my work. I write them down on paper, which forces me to see them when I need them. I do try to keep some nbrs stored in my brain cells, if only to keep them exercised.

Writing and memorization have this in common: while the knowledge that's stored isn't being used it is completely passive, just a dead representation. But when the knowledge is invoked and used, it becomes alive, and interacts with the self and the other knowledge available; it becomes changeable, and can change other knowledge, as well as the self of the person who invoked it.

But they are different in this respect: recalling memorized knowledge brings no new knowledge, and rarely brings new insight, because recall is a mechanical process; one rarely thinks new thoughts about recalled knowledge except in the context of other, newer, knowledge. Reading a text, however, can invoke totally new (to the reader), knowledge which can result in new insight, and new knowledge from its combination with what was known before.

Recall is necessary (though memorization isn't the only way to do it), but finding new things that other people wrote down and using them is far more creative in many senses of the word.

Done With Bonaparte - Mark Knopfler

We've paid in hell since Moscow burned
As cossacks tear us piece by piece
Our dead are strewn a hundred leagues
Though death would be a sweet release
And our grande armée is dressed in rags
A frozen starving beggar band
Like rats we steal each other's scraps
Fall to fighting hand to hand

Save my soul from evil, Lord
And heal this soldier's heart
I'll trust in thee to keep me, Lord
I'm done with Bonaparte

What dreams he made for us to dream
Spanish skies, Egyptian sands
The world was ours, we marched upon
Our little Corporal's command
And I lost an eye at Austerlitz
The sabre slash yet gives me pain
My one true love awaits me still
The flower of the Aquitaine

Save my soul from evil, Lord
And heal this soldier's heart
I'll trust in thee to keep me, Lord
I'm done with Bonaparte

I pray for her who prays for me
A safe return to my belle France
We prayed these wars would end all wars
In war we know is no romance
And I pray our child will never see
A little Corporal again
Point toward a foreign shore
Captivate the hearts of men

Save my soul from evil, Lord
And heal this soldier's heart
I'll trust in thee to keep me, Lord
I'm done with Bonaparte

Stephen Frug @ 5: "But looked at more closely, they turn out to be right -- in this case, widespread writing really did reduce the "arts of memory" that were used to enable people to remember lots of things (including large chunks of texts) that they needed to remember before they could write it down."

Rather, they are true in so narrow a way as to render them meaningless. Yes, the arts of memorization are not what they once were, but so what? Memory is only useful and important, as Plato himself observes, insofar as it engenders wisdom, and in that half of his prediction Plato was dead wrong.

"Well, the Tao te Ching does the same thing. It opens by saying the way that can be spoken is not the true way, then continues for 81 chapters."

In the case of the Tao Te Ching, I feel it's more of a caveat emptor.

Of course Plato, for all his faults, was a brilliant writer.

That sort of thinking is why I always preferred Aristotle to Plato -- the former was still a creature of his time, but at least he tried to look and see what was around him, instead of Idealizing whatever he was most comfortable with.

And yes, the "tools" analogy is spot-on. Indeed, it might not be an analogy, as such... One could consider writing as the "simple tool" for information storage.

And a bit of Open Threadiness: I just found emergent complexity in my lunch!

I was cooking a pack of trolley noodles and the boiling rolled the noodles into nice long coils in the pot. I don't think I've had that happen before.

(This was a new-to-me brand noodles [new Asian market in "my" shopping center, yay!], in a pot wider than I usually use. Research shall continue at future meals....)

And when they say it implants forgetfulness in our souls, I haven't heard anyone actually discredit this notion. Writing, like any art or religion, is a commodification of our experience. Words and idols are not the things they represent.

I wonder what Plato would've said if he'd known as much as we now know about the mutability of memory. It might make him like writing better. Or he might note that when we read, we're reading with imperfect memories that affect our present understanding of the text: the past that old words evoke is always a false past.

Tonight, on the SciFi Channel, Thor: Hammer of the Gods, with Viking vs werewolves.

"Down, Fenris! Bad dog!"

Bhelgh On Fire

If men learn this, it will implant weakness in their jaws; they will cease chasing because they rely on that which is frightened, flushing game into the open not through a hunting band, but by means of wildfire. What you have discovered is a recipe not for food, but for smoke. And it is no true winterfat that you offer your disciples, but only its semblance, for by giving them the barbecue without teaching them enzymes you will make them seem to control digestion, while for the most part they control nothing, and as men filled, not with food, but with toxins, they will be a burden to their cavemates.

ap... You just reminded me that it's been a long time since I saw Quest for Fire. Not only does it have Ron Perlman sans makeup, but Rae Dawn Chong's attire consists of caked mud. I'll pass on Can of the Cave Beer.

Serge @ 36 -

Quest For Fire was an interesting movie, perhaps the only serious film about early humanity.

10,000 BC, on the other hand, made Caveman look like a shining work of art.

#36: I'll pass on Can of the Cave Beer.

But Cave of the Bare Clan was pretty good....

Bruce (StM) @ #28, I really have to listen to more Knopfler. I dearly love his collaboration with Emmylou Harris, which was the first of his album's I really listened to.

Serge @ 22 ...
Is a conversation less alive for relying on writing? Are friendship and love less real for being without physical proximity?

Provided that it's a conversation and not concurrent declamations...
That aside, there are many, many people who routinely surprise me with their physical appearance -- I'm so used to their virtual essence that discovering their physical actuality is always a shock.

All this makes me wonder, though, how much different are our minds and experiences, just because of the whole structure of written language being burned in. I believe I've known one adult of normal intelligence, in my whole life, who couldn't read. (She's a Salvadoran immigrant cleaning offices for a living. And while I obviously couldn't claim any deep knowledge of her IQ or whatever, I had a lot of conversations with her, in which she was very obviously a bright and aware person. I've had interactions with retarded adults, and it's not remotely the same.)

I'm not sure I have any memories of being a person who couldn't read; it's hard to decide if very very early memories are real or reconstructed memories-of-memories. So it's hard for me to rule out the idea that maybe literacy changes some fundamental things about the way your mind works. I especially wonder how it affects us that, for many of us, we've had far more input of information by written word than by experience or spoken word.

This seems like the sort of thing someone has probably studied in depth, if I only knew where to look....

Serge @22:

Is a conversation less alive for relying on writing? Are friendship and love less real for being without physical proximity?

Dunno. We're all here.

albatross #41: I've known quite a few adults of normal intelligence who couldn't read (one of them was my grandfather, a man who owned winning racehorses). Literacy is a skill like any other, it has to be taught. And those who learn must have a fair chance to learn it.

Literacy doesn't mean that memory isn't a cultivate skill either. Consider the "theatre of memory" that was taught in mediæval and renaissance Europe. Or, to take a more humble example the "memory gems" that generations of English schoolchildren (and children in British colonies) had to learn ("He that shoots at the midday sun, though he may never hit the mark, yet he shall aim higher than any man," for example).

albatross @ 41:

I'm not sure I have any memories of being a person who couldn't read

When I visited China, one of the most frustrating things for me was being unable to read rather than to speak, even though I can't speak any of the languages there either. It was certainly an interesting experience.

KeithS @ 44 ...
I found it very interesting being a functional illiterate in Japan -- able to speak, but not able to read much more than the raw basics ("bathroom", "subway", "food") -- especially being accustomed to being highly literate in my native environment.

De Valse Zeeman, sung by Laïs
(YouTube, with folk dancing...I had not seen Dutch? Belgian? folk dancing before)

Vaarwel, mijn Griet en ik ga naar zee
De wind is reeds noordoost
Het schip ligt zeilklaar op de ree
Dus Grietje wees getroost.

Straks kom ik weer naar 't vaderland
En dan wordt gij mijn vrouw
Ik heb mijn hart aan U verpand
Ik reken op uw trouw

Dus Grietje denk dan ook aan mij
Beschouw u reeds als bruid
Ga nooit met knapen wie 't ook zijn
Ga nooit met and'ren uit

O Grietje droog uw tranen af
Men liefste schrei niet meer
Gij zijt en blijft mijn hartelief
En spoedig keer ik weer

Wees niet jaloers mijn lieve Griet
Al zeg ik U vaarwel
Die bruine meisjes kus ik niet
Die zijn zo zwart van vel

Maar de stuurman kwam aan het Oosterstrand
Daar was zijn hart gerust
En menig meisjes bruingebrand
Werd ook door hem gekust

Maar wat deed Grietje blef zij 'm trouw
Neen toen zij vernam
Werd zij dien dag reeds bootsmansvrouw
Toen hij weer binnenkwam.

- o0o -

(My translation, such as it is.)

Farewell, my Griet, I'm off to sea
The wind it blows northeast
The ship stands ready to set sail
So Grietje, be consoled.

I'll soon come back to the fatherland
And then you'll be my wife.
For I have pledged my heart to you
And trust your loyalty.

So Grietje think of me always
And act as though we're wed.
Don't go about with other men
Whoever they may be.

O Grietje dry your tears, my dear,
My darling, weep no more.
I hold you always in my heart
And swiftly I'll return.

And don't be jealous, darling Griet
When I take leave of you
I shall not kiss the brown-skinned girls
As dark as any sheet.

But the steersman came the eastern shores
And there he took his rest
And many brown-burned girls he met
And kissed while he was there.

But Grietje lost her faith in him
When once the news reached her
And she'd become boatswain's wife
Ere he returned again.

Serge @22:
Is a conversation less alive for relying on writing? Are friendship and love less real for being without physical proximity?

Well, having just played host to two internet friends, one of whom I had never met in the flesh before, I'd gotta say that it works out fine for me this way.

One thing I found strange: I found it easier to recognize Teresa when she was still than when she was in motion. I had to learn to know her as a moving person, because my previous visual associations with her were based on Flickr.

Also, in my head everybody I haven't met has my peculiar mid-Atlantic accent. It's always a bit of a jar to hear people whom I know in writing when we speak for the first time*. Suddenly they're all American (or, in some cases, sound just like Christopher Lambert). The effect goes away fairly quickly, but it's always a strange first few minutes.

-----
* "And now, our final challenge in 2009's Diagram-That-Sentence competition," as PNH has said to me more than once when my clauses get tangled...

Brown speckled white, the hawk has found his prey
beside the road, and looks around with pride;
he lives to hunt and soar another day.

Just sight of him makes northern air less grey,
this happy king on Campbellton Road side,
brown speckled white, the hawk has found his prey

just as in times of marl hole or red clay
this ruling bird with nothing here to hide;
he lives to hunt and soar another day

just one more immigrant who makes his way
in colder places, but still mice abide;
brown speckled white, the hawk has found his prey.

No creature pauses to contest his sway,
the turnings of the circles coincide,
he lives to hunt and soar another day.

You find the name i know that i can say
and all the facts that cannot be denied;
brown speckled white, the hawk has found his prey,
he lives to hunt and soar another day.

Also, in my head everybody I haven't met has my peculiar mid-Atlantic accent.

In my head, most of you have my English accent* right up to the moment when someone uses an Americanism**, at which point they get a peculiar mid-American accent. I don't know for sure that it's abi's accent, but how many peculiar mid-American accents can there be at Making Light?

* Except clearly pronounced; how I speak English when abroad for example, rather than here in the South East
** Xopher once used a phrase that is very Irish, so sometimes I hear him with a Dublin brogue even though I know that this is wrong.

abi, wait until you hear Serge's accent (French Canadian via southwestern US) and Linkmeister's (mid-Pacific).

(I'm lying; I've never heard Linkmeister's accent. I just thought the mid-Pacific joke hadda be made.)

When I first read Douglas Adams' Dirk Gently's Holistic Detective Agency, I heard all the characters speaking in Generic American. Then Dirk gets his nose broken, and Adams starts spelling to indicate the distortion. He spells 'secretary' "segradry." At that point I realized the accent I was hearing from him was all wrong, because 'secretary' is four syllables in America, but three in Britain.

Neil @49:
Mid-American or mid-Atlantic?

I grew up in California, speaking mostly urban American English with a few rural quirks picked up in the mountains. I then moved to Edinburgh at the age of 23 and went somewhat native, though I never did get the Scottish accent.

I use a mix of Britishisms, Scots dialect words and Americanisms in speech. My accent, when I'm not around Americans for too long, is American in its consonants and British (generic English, kind of a weak-tea version of RP) in its vowels and word-stress.

Now I'm in the Netherlands, and starting to use Dutchified English as well. I don't think I'll pick up the local pronunciations, but the idiom and phrasing is creeping in.

I have a distinctive idiolect, in other words. If you could hear the way your voice sounds in my head, you'd laugh.

Linkmeister @39, re: Mark Knopfler. He's an interesting guy, with a great deal of depth: His song "Sailing to Philadelphia"* is based on, and contains direct quotes from, Thomas Pynchon's "Mason and Dixon" (a book which I had to read with a dictionary in the immediate vicinity).

Aural and literary fusion FTW!

*from the album of the same name

Xopher @50:
I have heard Serge's accent; thus the crack about Christopher Lambert.

You, I should try to imagine with a stereotypically Joisey accent, yes? (I can't; you come out mid-Atlantic like everyone else.)

Debbie @ #52, I went directly from my previous comment to Bruce to my public library website and requested 3 Knopfler albums be put on hold; "Sailing to Philadelphia" is one of them. Thanks for your endorsement; I look forward to hearing more from him.

I do know he's a heckuva guitarist (I have the "Brothers in Arms" Dire Straits album).

Xopher @ #50, if I lapse into pidgin I can sound pretty local. Most of the time I've got a generic American voice, with a mild tinge of Southern drawl if I'm speaking to someone from that region (I find myself using "Y'all" to those folks, and I rarely use it otherwise).

Nah, I grew up in Michigan. I can DO the Joisey accent, but there's almost no one left in Hoboken who speaks that way anyway.

Now I expect I've picked up some New Yawkish/New Joiseyish habits of speech. Certainly the pacing is more like NY/NJ than like MI.

Having so recently read through the long and wonderful thread here on vaccinations, I was delighted to discover this on Dooce.com.

I was tempted to comment on it (and leave a link to Jim's post), but by the time I got there the comments were around 800. (they have now passed 1000). I'm sure that, as you get further into the thread there may well be some uncivil behavior, attacks on Dooce, and some anti-vaccination nuttery, but the first hundred or so that I read seem to be well thought out.

albatross, #41, I have a friend who is bipolar and can't read. I've had an odd change recently, too. When I had the first stroke in 1988, my reading speed became four times as long as it had been. After this most recent (fourth) stroke, I'm twice as long as before the first, but half as long as the time between. So about a minute a page now.

Xopher, #50, when I first watched Pratchett's Wyrd Sisters tapes, I was shocked. When reading his books, I always hear American accents.

Yesterday, the senior local NBC station anchor was talking about Obama getting pizza from St. Louis and as they're showing the shop logo, he says "That must be pia." His female cow-orker says "That's Pi" and it makes me wonder just how bright he is.

KeithS @ 44: I lived there for eight months and sympathize greatly. Learned a bit of spoken Mandarin, but almost no written (I could recognize the name of my town, some names of other towns, some ingredients on packaged food, the characters for "attention" or "caution" which appeared on a lot of signs, and a few others, but that wasn't much.)

The inability to read and the inability to converse affected me in different ways. Being Chinese-illiterate made it hard for me to find my way around independently, although additionally, many of the surrounding systems assume people always come in groups, which had a similar effect. I got used to being very prepared - when I wanted something that couldn't be conveyed simply, I'd look up the word for it and painstakingly copy it down off a computer screen. Being unable to speak to very many people on a fluent level was far more isolating in the long run; for written communication, I had the Internet, and used it copiously.

Brenda Kalt @ 42... My point exactly.

Abi @ 47... I found it easier to recognize Teresa when she was still than when she was in motion

Wasn't there a Star Trek episode where that happened to Kirk?

I think that friendships born thru the written word last longer than others because not that many people who first knew each other in the flesh are willing of keeping in touch when they go away, unless they both like writing.

Stephen Frug @5: "But I bet people here could come up with some others..."

Indeed. There were dire predictions when women were given the vote that they might not vote as their husbands did. For a long time they did, but not any more. When Bill Clinton was elected, Doris Kearns Goodwin pointed out on PBS that the predictions of those who argued against giving women the vote had come true.

abi #47: Accents can be tricky things. I grew up in a family that was linguistically rather peculiar, and thought it normal.

Linkmeister @ 55 ...
Xopher @ #50, if I lapse into pidgin I can sound pretty local. Most of the time I've got a generic American voice, with a mild tinge of Southern drawl if I'm speaking to someone from that region (I find myself using "Y'all" to those folks, and I rarely use it otherwise).

Eh brah, malama ka 'aina, fucka' ?

xeger @ #64, Where the heck did you find malama ka 'aina?

Hot button phrase, that, what with a dozen sovereignty movements all arguing with one another about whose land it is, and the rest of us saying "wait a minute, we acted in good faith when we bought it."

One of my favorite mixed accents belongs to Sherry Coldsmith, last heard at an ArmadilloCon, years ago.

Fragano #63, re: abi #47: Accents can be tricky things.

Tell me about it... I've got two regional accents (Lawn Guyland with an overlay from Boston) and three stacked speech impediments! (Familial, "autistic", and hearing-loss.)

abi @ 51:

I somehow managed to retain my American accent, although I did pick up some English turns of phrase as I grew up there. My vowels round off a little when I'm singing, though.

A.J. Luxton @ 59:

I had my father (who at least speaks a few words of Mandarin and had lived there for a bit) to show me around. That helped a lot. I came to recognize a couple of the characters, but that's not really the same as reading.

Fragano Ledgister @ 63:

Your discussion of where home is and dealing with the question "where are you from?" struck a chord with me, as I've been trying to sort that out for myself. Thank you.

Linkmeister @ 65 ...
xeger @ #64, Where the heck did you find malama ka 'aina?

Would you believe me if I claimed that I found it in the couch?

James D. Macdonald @38: But Cave of the Bare Clan was pretty good...

Clan of the Care Bears, though, not so much.

KeithS #68: You're welcome.

xeger, #40: I have found it to be a truism that Nobody Ever Looks The Way You Expect Them To. I think the most extreme example was when someone of whom my mental image was "little and feisty" turned out to be a muscular, laid-back dude about 6'4" tall. (Note that this phenomenon can be circumvented by something like Serge's Making Light and Faces page.)

abi, #47: I've had more than one person tell me, after having met me FTF for the first time, that I write exactly the way I speak and from then on, they "hear" my posts as if I were talking to them.

Interesting personal linguistic note: I can mimic a number of accents fairly well if I'm singing a song performed by someone with that accent; for example, when singing early Beatles songs, I can do a passable Liverpudlian accent. When not singing... not so much.

Abi @ #47: Also, in my head everybody I haven't met has my peculiar mid-Atlantic accent.

Neil Willcox @ #49: In my head, most of you have my English accent* right up to the moment when someone uses an Americanism**, at which point they get a peculiar mid-American accent.

While in my head, anybody I haven't actually heard hasn't got an accent - their written word stays written. This could be because English is a foreign language and my accent is neither here nor there. It could also be because written Norwegian doesn't match up well to the spoken dialects, so you don't get used to making assumptions when you read.

Lee, I've noticed the same thing about sung accents vs. spoken accents! I wonder if there isn't something interesting going on there -- different part of the brain involved? Or is it just that when you're singing, you're producing sound in a different way, so that along with trying to reproduce pitch and phrasing, you add reproducing accent in without thinking about it?

Why, yes, I did spend several hours last night with unfettered access to a karaoke machine, and found myself reproducing a VERY wide variety of voices. Alison Moyet does not sound like Rod Stewart who does not sound like Grace Slick who does not sound like Richard O'Brien who does not sound like Natalie Merchant.

Lee @ 72 and Rikibeth @ 74:

My personal wild idea about this is that singing is often something that is done communally, and you want to blend in together with your community.

Open threadiness: PHN's Hang This Up In Your Time Machine Sidelight appears to lack the making of blackpowder, napalm & penicilin.

I wouldn't hang anything up in my time machine that didn't tell me how to make at least two of those three, personally.

Actually, I'm partly wrong. Said poster does mention that penicillin comes from bread mold. Still no blackpowder or napalm, though. How is one supposed to conquer the past without them?

In the should-be-a-particle department: A really interesting perspective on legalization of marijuana, from a programming blog that I read. It seemed like a thing that a lot of the amateur law-geeks here (and professional ones) would find interesting, but would be unlikely to have come across directly:

http://steve-yegge.blogspot.com/2009/04/have-you-ever-legalized-marijuana.html

Terry Karney @15: My library science, and copyediting, instructors told me, repeatedly, "It's not what you know, it's what you know how to look up."

Or as Dr. Johnson said back in 1775 (almost 200 years before I went to library school):

Knowledge is of two kinds. We know a subject ourselves, or we know where we can find information upon it. When we enquire into any subject, the first thing we have to do is to know what books have treated of it. This leads us to look at catalogues, and at the backs of books in libraries.

I have a poster with the first two sentences of that quotation, which was distributed (back in the Eighties) by the U.S. Government Printing Office to promote the Depository Library System, in which our library participates.

Johnson himself apparently did not write that, though. We know that quotation because his friend Boswell wrote it in his "Life of Johnson."

Lois Fundis @ 79: When I was a student at the University of Wisconsin, one of the professors in the law school gave a lecture each year that he said was the most important lesson of the entire law curriculum. He held up a copy of a federal government directory, and went through it, explaining how to find the people you needed to get in touch with, and how to get them to return your calls.

Steve C @ 37... 10,000 BC, on the other hand, made Caveman look like a shining work of art

It's been years since I saw Caveman (Hey! That's Dennis Quaid, with Ringo Starr!), but any movie that has a T-rex get drunk on berries can't be all bad. As for 10,000BC, was it that dreadful?

10,000 Beer Cans on the cave wall, 10,000 Beer Cans.
Take one down and pass it around, 9,999 Beer Cans on the cave wall.

Steve C... Speaking of bad prehistoric movies, I think it's hard to top When Dinosaurs Ruled the Earth, which has a bikini-clad Italian blonde lady fed some caribou by as dinosaur that thinks she's her baby, and who later is chased by giant crabs. I don't hold too much hope for Will Ferrell's soon-coming Land of the Lost. Hopefully Adam Beach's Turok, Son of Stone will be better.

Lois @ #79, janetl @ #80, I got that same lesson from, of all people, a business finance instructor. The text he assigned had all the formulas (current ratio, inventory turn, debt-to-equity, etc.) one might frequently need printed on the inside covers. "Don't memorize them; memorize where to find them," he said.

I still have that book, although the internet has replaced it as my go-to source for those things, and I haven't had any use for them in years anyway.

Wirelizard @ 76

Prior the 18th century, knowledge of trigonometry and analytic geometry (and a slide rule* or table of sines**, if possible) would be extremely useful. It would provide you with either range computation for ballistic projectiles, or better open-water navigation, depending on whether you're planning on military subjugation or commercial competition.

On the other hand, a Zippo lighter would be far more immediately impressive.

* A sun-powered scientific calculator would work, but you can make copies of a slide rule with extremely simple tech; if a calculator breaks, you're hosed.
** You could recreate the table yourself if you know the power series for the sine and tangent functions, but it would be tedious.

Serge @ 81

As for 10,000BC, was it that dreadful?

Of course you wouldn't be aware that it was so bad that the Time Patrol had it retconned out of existence.

Finally, finally, my UIL slide rule competition days turn out useful! Ha ha!!

Open thready Whedon fansquee:

I watched last night's episode of Dollhouse today. That ep is what might be called an existential thriller.

At one point, gur Npgvir Abirzore, jub'f orra frag onpx gb fcl ba Ntrag Onyyneq jvgu gur "Zryyvr" crefbanyvgl vzcevagrq ba ure, oernxf vzcevag gb cnff ba n zrffntr sebz fbzrbar, vqragvgl haxabja, jvguva gur Qbyyubhfr. Onyyneq gevrf gb trg zber vasbezngvba sebz gur zrffntr vzcevag, naq vf gbyq, "V nz abg vzcevagrq jvgu nal vasbezngvba lbh ner abg fhccbfrq gb unir." Sbe n gevcyr jbeq fpber, n gjb-cbvag pbairefvba, naq n serr objy bs gur fbhc qr wbhe, jub vf "V" va guvf pbagrkg?

And while I'm in a whimsical mood, when do we get to meet Foxtrot, Hotel, and Uniform?

Foxtrot was mentioned briefly in the episode with the drugs at the university.

Clipped from what I'm writing right now:

“But we don't even have endocrine systems,” Javier said. “We can’t get big rushes of emotion. Even our smiles are just plug-ins performing a subroutine for socially-acceptable nonverbal communication. So you can’t be all that attached to your mother. Your feelings for her were never that real to start with.”

Amy pushed herself up. She stood over him and pointed at the scroll reader. “Do you know who you sound like? You sound like them. The people who want to kill us. The ones who think we’re not real.”

“God, you even blush when you’re pissed. Look at you, you’re shaking. I’m so Turing for you it’s crazy.”

...And, it's officially bedtime.

Greetings from Minicon. Stayed up very late playing music. Must drag self out of bed soon, find eggs celebrate Resurrection. Hallelujah.

Bruce Cohen @ 85... What? Now everybody thinks he/she is a critic, even Manse Everard?

Bill Higgins @ 90... My own Easter plans for today had included the digging of big holes - not to look for eggs, but to put plants in - but that's now cancelled, since it snowed last night. I'm still expecting to watch Ben Hur though. Happy Easter!

As I was standin' in the street
Readin' Rowling's fiction-o
A recruitin' sergeant said to me,
"I'd like to check your diction-o.

"Please just pronounce this list o' words,"
He said in manner frantic-o.
"Secretary, schedule...."
Said he, "Yer mid-Atlantic-o."

"What do you mean?" says I to he
While ponderin' his queries-o.
"I want to know what voice ye hear
Whilst readin' British series-o."

Abi @ 53... you come out mid-Atlantic like everyone else

I'd better learn to swim better than a rock does then.

(Reposted from the "Osiris" thread, where I misplaced it.)
-----------

Re: "Hang this up in your time machine" -- Bah!

Some of the stuff there represents basic scientific knowledge, but a good deal of it is stuff that just wasn't practical until it was enabled by multiple other technologies, and in some cases social changes.

F'rex, it's one thing to build a single electric motor or generator as a demonstration -- large-scale production is a little trickier, especially if ironworking is handwork from a guilded profession... and working copper is likely a different guild ("whitesmithing"). Radio needs all of the above plus better precision, expert glasswork (eventually), and probably other stuff I can't think of offhand.

Even a glider needs pretty strong materials (q.v. Leonardo da Vinci), and powered flight needs lightweight IC motors.... (Even today, battery weight is a major restriction for any electric vehicle, let alone an aircraft!)

Similarly, atomic power is useless until you can (1) build large generators, and (2) refine metals that are not only radioactive, but toxic, fragile, and insanely flammable. (Not to mention the reputation you'll get when all your workers die horribly.)

A formula like C20H26O2 doesn't even come close to defining a single compound, the speed of light is useless until you get into space, and talking about germ theory before its time is a likely route to the heretic's pyre....

Heck, if you go back far enough, the wheel is only useful if you've got plains or paved roads, and suitable draft-beasts!
-------

Wirelizard @#76: Yeah, the nice thing about black powder is that the ingredients and prep are distinctly low-tech. Depending on your location, it might be hard to find sulfur, but the other two ingredients can be prepared almost anywhere.

Regarding Hang This Up In Your Time Machine - it's Ryan North of Dinosaur Comics who had the idea, and sells the poster (and T-shirt).

Plato Twitter users can't write long messages, and therefore soon find themselves unable to express complex thoughts.

Plato The 140-character limit reduces all ideas to their simplest form, losing the subtlety that distinguishes truth from generality.

Plato Twitter is therefore a tool not for communication, but only for declaration.

Plato And it is no true conversation that you offer your followers, but only its semblance, for by telling them many things without explaining...

Plato ...you will make them think they know your thoughts, while for the most part they know little of you, and as...

Plato ...friends filled not with understanding, but with gossip, they will be a burden to your reputation.

Aristotle RT @Plato friends filled not with understanding but with gossip are a burden on your reputation.

At risk of over-explaining the joke, and for the benefit of our non-native-English-speaking readers, a "mid-Atlantic" accent is one that comes from the east coast of the USA, between New England and Dixie: New York, New Jersey, and Pennsylvania.

David Harmon@95
but a good deal of it is stuff that just wasn't practical until it was enabled by multiple other technologies, and in some cases social changes.

Which is why development economics is hard. I expect anyone here who is interested has already found Charlie Stross' Merchant Princes series and the discussion of his work on Crooked Timber earlier this year.

I wrote me a letter to Syracuse, it was a letter full of lies

I told them that we were doing fine, very much to their surprise
For how were they to know that here the ground was soaked in red

Or that we could fill the valley with our dead.

I started out and told them that by Christmas we'd begin

To pack our bags and head on home to bring the new year in
While all around me boys who help me sow last season's crop

By charging at the cannons till they drop



I told my mother not to write cause we're always moving on

I told my brother not to join cause he'd only find us gone

But if we keep on much further, retreating all the way

Oh we'll all be going home now any day.

Wirelizard@76, David Harmon@95

the nice thing about black powder is that the ingredients and prep are distinctly low-tech. Depending on your location, it might be hard to find sulfur, but the other two ingredients can be prepared almost anywhere.

Interesting point. I don't usually think of sulphur as a key component of explosives, but the next-most-simple good explosive is probably guncotton (cellulose nitrate), and making that needs sulphuric acid.

Wikipedia says that sulfur-free black powder was developed as a priming charge for smokeless gunpowder, but doesn't say whether it works well as a standalone (fall-down-alone?) explosive.

James D. MacDonald @ 98

"Mid-Atlantic" can more broadly mean any accent that mixes American and British characteristics. I'm a lot more familiar with that usage, actually.

James D. Macdonald (98): Delaware and Maryland are usually on that list, too.

#102 "Mid-Atlantic" can more broadly mean any accent that mixes American and British characteristics.

For myself, I've never heard that usage.

Mary Aileen @ 103

Except that Philadelphia and Baltimore accents don't fit in the mid-atlantic mold very well. I grew up in Philly and had relatives living in Baltimore at the time; the differences were amusing. I think you can synthesize Philly by interpolating between Baltimore and New York (Manhattan, not The Bronx or Brooklyn).

Madeline Ashby @ 89

I like that. Please let us know where/when it gets published.

I usually summarize my understanding of Plato by saying that Plato was not the Platonic ideal of a philosopher. And that if you spend all your time looking at the shadows on the cave wall, you're likely to miss seeing the paintings.

TCM showed Solomon and Sheba this morning. My understanding is that we don't know where the kingdom of Sheba was. Based on how Gina Lollobridgida looked, I'd say that Sheba was a Romulan colony world.

Beth @ 100 ...
That's hauntingly lovely. Thank you.

James D. Macdonald (104): That's the only usage I know for 'mid-Atlantic accent'; I thought you were making a pun on the other use of 'mid-Atlantic'.

Bruce Cohen (105): I know the accents in the region don't fit a common mold, but in my experience, 'mid-Atlantic' covers Maryland through New York. Except when talking about accents, when I've always seen it to mean the usage James Moar cites.

Bruce@106:

You're a dear. Thank you. In the event that it's ever accepted anywhere, I'll be sure to let you know. :)

In other news, we've spent our Easter holidays not with Biblical epics, but with Tolkienish ones. Same themes, different costumes, more SFX, fewer bare chests.

David #95:

Many of those seem right, but I think you can have a huge impact with relatively little technology, if you understand the germ theory of disease, and maybe memorize some useful ways to make soap. (Alcohol or other antiseptics are also a win, but clean water, good sewers, and getting people to wash their hands all can have a really big impact.) Admittedly, if you're a stranger wandering around with a thick accent and funny clothes, it's not clear how to convince the locals to stop tossing their sewage out the window in the mornings.

Re memorization vs. looking up: somewhere in here, we get into the issue of whether or not it's a Good Thing to make students memorize times-tables, or whether calculators should be allowed in exams. My gut feeling is that the former is still a good idea because it gives you tools for doing rough estimates later in life, and the ability to make rough estimates is an important part of critical thinking. OTOH, if a student understands how to use the formula on a test, why is it necessary to make them do all the mathematical grunt-work as well? (Not to mention that they will certainly be allowed, if not required, to use calculators in any real-world situation.) What do other people here think about these issues?

Bruce 87: Vg trgf obevat sbe ure gb xrrc fnlvat "guvf obql" bire naq bire.

James; I was familiar with the true-regional use of 'mid-Atlantic' that you cite, but the "half-British, half-American" meaning is the one I see more commonly today. Probably some lay people heard some linguists talking about mid-Atlantic accents and conjectured what it meant. Much like I had a great time laughing at the name of the PT exercise 'anti-gravity abductor', which to me sounds like the thing a UFO uses to kidnap people.

James, Bruce, Mary, and Xopher, in theatre and Hollywood, "mid-Atlantic" is an accent that isn't quite American or US, an all-purpose accent that'll play for many audiences and that can be used for many parts. It's often recommended for doing Shakespeare or playing upper-class parts. That meaning goes back at least to the '70s, when I was studying theatre. I suspect it's much older.

Regarding memory - writing seems to have delegitimized it. Saying something is true because you learned it and remember it as true isn't taken seriously. It's a caveat - "I hope I'm right, but I'm working from memory." And in serious/academic work, memory doesn't even count - you've got to have a cite, a place on paper and in writing, where you found the information.

Mom was wondering about something the other day, and it occurred to us that folks here might know.

At the military ceremony where Dad's interred, there are a lot of pictures of the chief executive. Likewise at lots of other places, but we thought about it in that context. What do they do with all those pictures when there's a change of administration? It seems like it'd be a huge load of disposal all at once.

Fragano @ 63... Accents can be tricky things

Luckily, just before I open my mouth, nobody has ever accused me of being an accent waiting to happen.
(BONG!!!)
Ow.
That frying pun hurt.

Thomas @#101: Googling around, this experimenter says that a sulfur-free black powder produces much less smoke to cloud the battlefield, but also has a much higher ignition temperature, to the point of being hard to use in a matchlock. Contrary to Wikipedia's aside, he says that powder for a priming charge needs a high sulfur content.

I also turned up a patent for charcoal-free gunpowder. It seems to use phenolphthalein as a substitute. Besides the laxative effects of handling that stuff, it seems to be a derivative from coal combustion, so probably hard to refine under low-tech conditions.

Whoops, correction: phenolphthalein is derived from, among other things, phenol, which is the coal derivative. Even trickier to make in the field....

*citation needed

Lee @ 113
I agree with you. Not to mention that you might get stuck with a calculator that's sick or dead, and have to do it on paper or in your head, so you really need to know how (been there, done that, got the right answer).

How do they expect people to know how to use a calculator well, if they don't teach them the math first? Calculators are a tool for doing the job faster, not a substitute for knowing what to do.

Has anyone seen what Amazon's been doing the last couple days? I ran across this in a few LiveJournal entries this morning--apparently anything judged to have "adult" content has been stripped of its sales rankings. So far, read "gay and lesbian themes" for "adult content," not necessarily Jackie Collins type adult content. Arrrgh.

PJ @ 122: Yes, this. In the boating safety courses I teach, I find myself hammering on the point that electronics fail. That GPS system may be really spiffy and all, but so was LORAN in its day, and the Karen E still sank. Knowing how to read a chart, plot a course and do your 60 D Street calculations can save your bacon.

Rikibeth @ 74: I don't think it's using a different part of your brain so much as the fact that the way you shape your mouth and throat, breath control, tension and relaxation when singing control the pitch and tone of your voice, and those factors also come into accents. Likewise the importance of rhythm and phrasing to both the music and the accent. When you're working on producing the sounds you hear musically, you can't help but import the accent as well. (It takes real effort to sing Flogging Molly songs like Bob Dylan, or Gaelic Storm songs like the Swedish Chef.)

Lee @ 113:

Owing to general laziness, I never really did memorize multiplication tables very well, and I'm bad at mental arithmetic in general. This is inconvenient in situations ranging from thinking about change to various back-of-the-envelope calculations, so I'd say that learning that stuff is a very good idea. I'm improving slowly.

As far as I'm concerned, students should not be allowed to use calculators until after they know what they're doing (and this is speaking as someone who absolutely loved his calculator all through university). If you don't know what you're doing, you don't have any feel for whether the answer is right or wrong, or even necessarily which buttons to push. You have to know what you're doing and why, otherwise garbage in garbage out.

You can go too far in this attitude. I don't know how my car works beyond the basics of an internal combustion engine, for example. You shouldn't have to be an auto mechanic to drive a car. I suppose it's a distinction between casual use and specialized use.

Also, you really don't want to start plugging numbers into formulas right away. You want to do a whole bunch of symbolic manipulation up front. It winds up being a lot less work, and it's harder to get things wrong. Modern calculators can do symbolic math, and I used mine heavily for that in university (no, I didn't want to do those horrific Fourier transform problems by hand, why do you ask?), but it's still easier to manipulate a lot of things with pencil and paper.

In a lot of the engineering and physics classes I took, we were either allowed to make our own formula sheets for exams, or they were open book/open note. The professors thought, and I most certainly agreed, that if you use something often you'll remember it, but it's more important to know how to look things up.

Now, rote memorization doesn't do you much good if you don't use it in the service of something else. Lots of people have memorized multiplication tables and yet have a hard time figuring out, for example, how much seven items will cost if they're ten for a dollar.

To wrap it up: memorization is good to a point, and it can hurt you a bit if you don't do it, but knowing what you're doing and how to get there is better.

Lee @#113: I'd say calculators should certainly be banned at least through elementary school! If they can't do their multiplication tables et al., then they can't actually multiply -- they're just pressing buttons and assuming the gadget is right.

Similar issues apply to logarithms -- I think every schoolchild should get at least a week's worth of working with actual logarithm tables -- without that, they'll have little sense of how logarithms actually work, beyond "press this button".

In general, if you don't have at least a basic mastery of doing mathematical operations by hand, you have no way to verify what your calculator is telling you, with dire consequences for general comprehension. (Not to mention when you press the wrong button!) You need those skills to have any hope of estimating approximate answers, and that's the most basic part of sanity-checking any calculation.

"Push Here, Dummy" barely works for cameras -- for math, it's just a recipe for disaster.

And more Open threadiness: I just thought of a useful mem, anyone want to help spread it? The idea is to start everyone pronouncing "www.foo..." as "wəwəwə dot foo...".

Bah, dropped an "e" off meme... maybe it got eaten by a schwa? ;-)

In one of my engineering courses, we were expected to derive certain equations on the tests. None of us could reliable do it-- the professor had gone through in class, but sort of skimming, assuming we all had the calculus to do it, and then he said, "Then you look it up in the table of integrals..." and was agog when I mentioned later that I'd never actually seen such a thing.

I forgot how to borrow when subtracting sometime in high school or college. I remembered when I took the GRE, which seemed to test the ability to find the clear shortcut in arithmetic problems, or to do arithmetic very quickly.

On tests, there are two different math things going on. You have the test of getting the process right, which doesn't include any numbers at all, and the test of getting the numbers right, which is where the calculator comes in handy. Finding a decent balance for people who get one or the other entirely wrong-- usually the second, to be honest-- is hard.

I confess, I was using "Mid-Atlantic" in the sense of "between British and American". When people try to locate my accent on the North American continent, they tend not to guess the Eastern Seaboard of the United States.

Mostly they go for Canada.

Diatyma (129): I am reminded of one of my calculus tests in high school. On one problem, I did the calculation correctly, right up to the point where all I had to do was multiply 3 by 2 for the final answer. I got 5.

Ursula, #116: ISTM that there's good reason for that. Memory by itself is notoriously unreliable; a group of people reporting an event that they all witnessed will offer wildly variant and often mutually contradictory descriptions, each of which the person telling it will swear they remember accurately. Rote memorization of data can do better than that, but I've done fact-checking on things I was writing about and discovered that I was misremembering even things I thought I knew. In an informal setting I'm willing to give people the benefit of the doubt, but I still come down heavily on the side of "citation or it didn't happen" overall.

KeithS, #125 & David, #126: That's more or less what I wanted to say and couldn't figure out how to express. If we stop teaching students HOW to do basic math, we end up in the world of Asimov's "The Feeling of Power".

And the ugly I mentioned @123 has been christened (of course it has) #amazonfail over at twitter.

Oh, Amazon just loves bad customer feedback. Especially when they get to cherry-pick what actually stays viewable. They'll not soon forget the lessons learned combating the bad rep that Spore's Digital Rights Manglement had.

Diatryma @ 129:

My calculus text has a short table of integrals at the back, but I'm given to understand that there were entire books of the things at one point. I'll take tables of integrals over having to re-derive them any time, and a good symbolic math program over tables of integrals. It's still good to know how to derive them, but some of them can get quite hairy and in the way of the problem you're trying to solve.

I have a student's book of log and trig tables that the maths department was giving away when I was in 3rd/10th/whatever number they've settled on calling it form. They finally decided that since everyone had calculators, it wasn't worth keeping them around any more. We got a bit of a history lesson in how to use them, then took them home if we wanted to keep them.

Btw, Bruce Cohen, qb lbh guvax Gbcure vf fhccbfrq gb or n yvxrnoyr punenpgre? Ur'f na "naablvat" veercerffvoyl purreshy areq, juvpu vf abeznyyl zl snibevgr xvaq bs crefba gb unat bhg jvgu, ohg ur'f vaibyirq va guvf hafcrnxnoyr rivy (gubhtu ur znl oryvrir gur Qbyyf ner ibyhagrref, ur cnegvpvcngrf va cercnevat crbcyr sbe gur Nggvp, jurer nf ur qrfpevorq vg gurl raqher pbagvahbhf zragny gbegher sberire), naq uvf purreshyarff nobhg vg tvirf zr gur synzvat perrcf. V jnf ernyyl ebbgvat sbe Rpub gb hfr uvf punve ba uvz naq jvcr uvz qbja gb Qbyyarff n pbhcyr bs jrrxf onpx. Vg jbhyq freir gur onfgneq evtug. Abg gung NAL bs gur crbcyr jub eha gur Qbyyubhfr qrfreir nalguvat orggre guna n ohyyrg va gur urnq VZB.

(Dollhouse stuff. Spoilers through 10 April ep.)

I was asleep when this happened, but I just found out that Captain Richard Phillips has been rescued from the Somali pirates who were holding him hostage, and that three of the pirates are dead. What's Latin for "thus always with pirates"? Sic semper something.

Mark @124 -- there seems to be a lot of neurological involvement in people's ability -- or inability -- to mimic accents, although it's not completely understood yet. For example, I've seen a study showing different activation patterns between people judged to be 'talented' vs. 'untalented' WRT foreign languages when pronouncing words in three different languages (native, non-native but learned at school, completely unfamiliar). And of course the brain first has to process the information of an accent. Scottish or Irish? Edinburgh or Inverness? Some people can discriminate nuances better than others, even if they can't articulate them. Don't know if there's been any work on singing vs. speaking in accent mimicry, though.

"It's aubergine in UK books
An' eggplant west o' Dingle-o,
It's lifts an' lorries, blues an' twos,
What you call beach is shingle-o."

(Oh -- the tune to all this is "The Recruiting Sergeant.")

Xopher @ 137: You might be thinking of sic semper tyrannis, which means "thus always to tyrants". For this situation, sic erat in fatis ("thus it was fated") might be applicable.

I was thinking of that phrase, yes, but I meant to convey that being shot during the rescue is an appropriate fate for pirates and hostage-takers. I meant "may it be ever thus"—including, but not limited to, the safe rescue of the hostage.

>What's Latin for "thus always with pirates"?

Sic semper latrunculis

"Sic semper piratus"? Or is that straight off into dog Latin?

Regarding calculators, the failability of electronics, and actually knowing what you're damn well doing before messing with the electronic version: I have to confess to having forgotten all the actual trig theory that was drummed into me in high school. Put a scientific calculator in front of me and I can DO trig, but ask me to explain what I'm doing and I'll just give you a blank look and start stammering...

This while I work in aviation, attempting to complete my Flight Instructor training, where we insist (quite rightly!) on students learning & using pilotage & ded reckoning (chart, compass, speed & clock) before they start messing with electronic navigation in it's many and varied forms.

It always surprises non-pilots how little we use GPS in small airplanes. It's useful, but not at all 'mandatory', and sometimes it's nothing but a damned distraction. I've had a couple of friends wonder how we get anywhere, if not for GPS taking us by the hand and leading us there...

Back when oi were a lad (in London, mark you, not in Yorkshire) my father who was not exactly the recipient of what Derek Walcott would call 'a sound colonial education', insisted on my memorising the times table. Since the multiplication tables up to twelve times twelve was printed on the back of the standard exercise book, this was easy to achieve. My father insisted that this was mollycoddling of the younger generation, and that in his day he had to memorise the fourteen times table (but I never heard him recite "farteen farteens are one hundred an' ninety six"). I can still recite the multiplication table up to twelve times twelve (144), and, consequently, still do simple sums in my head as a result of that rote memorisation.

... and on a somewhat related note, I'm absolutely enjoying the hand tools which I seem to be accumulating at a marginally implausible rate (ones which don't actually require some sort of mending, not so quickly...) -- and have just discovered that one plus of using a hand powered grinder is the tendancy to let go of the motivating mechanism when something bad happens, thus making it much harder (say), for a piece of metal to be ripped out of ones hands and flung off somewhere...

Xopher @ 136

Gbcure ernyyl, ernyyl perrcf zr bhg. Ur'f pbzcyrgryl nzbeny, pbaprearq bayl jvgu uvf cyrnfher, juvpu frrzf gb pbzr sebz orvat noyr gb cynl tbq jvgu crbcyr'f zvaqf. Ur'f rfcrpvnyyl cyrnfrq jvgu uvzfrys sbe orvat noyr gb perngr arj crefbanyvgvrf sebz sentzragf bs bguref.

Gurer'f fbzrguvat V'ir orra jbaqrevat nobhg uvz. Vg'f pyrneyl arprffnel sbe uvz gb or gur nycun trrx jurerire ur vf. Jr abj xabj gurer ner znal qbyyubhfrf, naq vs rnpu vf betnavmrq va nccebkvzngryl gur fnzr jnl, gurer zhfg or n Gbcure sbe rnpu bar. Qbrfa'g gung qrzbgvingr uvz? Be vf uvf rirel npgvba vagraqrq gb cebir ur'f gur orfg bs gurz? Naq vs fb, jura naq ubj qbrf ur vagrenpg jvgu gurz, fb ur pna trg gur srrqonpx sebz orvat nycun?

On memorizing the multiplication tables--somehow, possibly because my mother is quite sneaky in her own way, I ended up memorizing what a friend calls "the gazinta tables" as a result of her drilling me on the multiplication tables: "If 6 times 9 is 54, how many times does 6 go into 54?"

On the making of pirates:

Modern piracy has been so much in the news the last few years, it's interesting to see what conditions, cultural and otherwise, contribute to their rise.

This article is from crooks and liars, and there's a link to the actual UN report at the bottom of the article.
http://crooksandliars.com/susie-madrak/what-international-media-isnt-telling

And... The Obamas got their dog!

One of my calculus teachers described it as the class where you learn arithmetic. You certainly do a lot of arithmetic in it!

(My eighth-grade math teacher had us learn the squares through the square of 25. We met slide rules and non-decimal systems in seventh grade.)

The table of integrals I saw was a book, but it wasn't something I could use. It was more or less a thesaurus, it seemed, and you had to know how it was organized so you could turn Messy Integral A into Simple Integral B.

Most of us used the internet when we needed it, and handwaving when we didn't. If you know the beginning and end of a derivation, you can sometimes make the middle happen, and if your handwriting was sufficiently bad, the professor would sort of ignore it. If he knew you knew it, which had little to do with whether or not you did.

I used to know exponents up to something ridiculous-- two to the lots, nine to the third maybe-- and I still remember some. That was tenth grade algebra, and I think it did a lot to help me recognize potentially significant numbers.

Re Xopher's 137 <hobbyhorse>When you let a bunch of normal people go into the glory of contraception-free radical free market libertarian bliss, for some reason, you keep on ending up with war lords, strongmen & and gangs.

Is it accepted when they're exploiting, oppressing & torturing locals, but when it's exported & affects 'real people' or interferes with trade, then we pay attention to that symptom?

Is it lack of history teaching, or that we learn other parts of history & don't get shown how often this pattern is seen across the world & time?

Is the idea we wait and see how many centuries this group takes to their version of Hammurabi's code, habeus corpus, or a Bill of Rights?<dismounts>

I'm agreeing with Mary Aileen (#110) that the #102 definition is the only one I've ever understood "mid-Atlantic accent" to mean, certainly when used here in Australia or by the British. I genuinely thought that James was joking. Now I wonder if I've misunderstood USians using it.

I seldom 'hear' writing in another's voice.

And feel that the literal interpretation of the idea of Platonic Ideal things has caused a lot of suffering and damage.

*returns to celebrating 4-day weekend with healthy diet of chocolate & toasted spicy fruit buns*

#77, Wirelizard: Actually, I'm partly wrong. Said poster does mention that penicillin comes from bread mold. Still no blackpowder or napalm, though. How is one supposed to conquer the past without them?

I think that was a deliberate omission. From the repeated use of "Take the credit", my impression is that you should use the poster's information to get stinkingly rich, and buy the past, rather than conquer it.

(Although, in reality, in the past you might need black powder or napalm to enforce your innovative little concept of "patents".)

J Austin (#148), Thanks.
I hadn't seen your note while I was writing, toasting, etc. I hope the linked things help confirm my prejudices :)

Coincidences can be funny... no, I mean really funny!

I was browsing the Web when an E-mail came in from an old friend. He sent me a video on how Disney only made one movie and kept tracing it.

I responded with the very page I'd just loaded, saying "Watch out for their lawyers!"

Mez@154:
No thanks needed;)every devil needs an advocate.

The gist of the report is: since the government in Somalia collapsed, other countries have been dumping their muclear, medical, and other toxic waste in Somali waters, sometimes right on the beach. The Tsunami threw all that shit up onto the land, flooded the wells with salt-water, etc, etc. Then heavily armored fishing boats started coming in to take the tuna, shrimp, and other fish that was their only real marketable resource, because hey, they couldn't do anything about it.

The first "pirates" in those waters were trying to protect their remaining wealth (calling themselves volunteer coast guard), and then the inevitable opportunists moved in and commenced the real pirating that we see on the news. I admit it's an oversimplification, but backstory matters.

Quick (and exhausted) Scraps deSelby-Bowen update: this afternoon, he walked from the bottom western end of Fort Greene Park up to the prison ship monument at the top, then halfway down. His faithful sidekick alternately carried and pushed the wheelchair all the way up, and down. The sidekick is exhausted.

#155 ::: David Harmon, that's Zardoz gone horribly wrong. And given that Zardoz had already gone horribly wrong...

Oh. Funniest Zardoz review I've encountered:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=12hxZ77gZus

Wirelizard @ 143: I think you're combining sic semper tyrannis with semper paratus; the latter is, of course, the motto of the US Coast Guard ("Always Prepared").

Velma @157: Congratulations to both of you on your incredible exercise programs!

Bruce 146: V'z tynq V'z abg gur bayl bar. Fbzrbar ba nabgure sbehz oebhtug hc fbzrguvat vagrerfgvat: znlor Ebffhz (naq V'z fher gur fvtavsvpnapr bs gung anzr vf abg ybfg ba lbh) svtherq bhg jub gurve orfg crbcyr jrer, naq Gbcure naq Qrjvgg naq fbzr bs gur bguref ner, haorxabjafg gb gurzfryirf, Qbyyf. Gung jnl gurl bayl arrq bar travhf grpuvr, naq gurl pbcl uvz. Naq fb ba.

Gung'f gur bayl jnl V jbhyq guvax nal bs gurz (rira Oblq, gubhtu ur'f pybfr gb gur rqtr pnfr sbe zr) qrfreir nalguvat orggre guna gjb va gur urnq.

I've always heard those half-American, half-British accents called "transatlantic."

Me@156:
Muclear? That sounds really gross...

Lee@132: definitely. I still remember vividly the mugging that our history teachers staged at a junior-highschool assembly, and the widely-scattered recollections when people were asked to write down what had happened (less unreliable than a discussion, which tends to turn into an echo chamber). I've read of that sort of demo happening in journalism school, but not how common it is/was. And our case was no-stakes; Clint Eastwood showed how it can be fatal in True Crime.

JMD@139: "They have different words for things over there. They say 'drapes' and we say 'curtains'; they say 'elevator' and we say 'lift'; they say 'president' and we say 'cretinous brain-damaged git'" (Attributed to a UK comedian in a fortune file that's not on this machine, alas.)

Austin@148ff: the claim that the media haven't noted the backstory is nonsense; I've heard it multiple times, and I don't stretch for news nearly as much as I should. And I note that other people in difficulties somehow find a way to keep their problems before the world regardless of bad behavior.

and Mez@152: "Let"?

Wiredwizard @ 143, the only time I was in a car with a GPS it proved to be very very annoying because there was a physical glitch in regards to the place we were going--the highway ramp was closed due to construction.

The machine kept yapping at us to go back to the closed ramp and get back up onto I70, while we safely and calmly went on an alternate route. We shut the damned thing off after a bit.

CHip@163:
I meant only what I said. I found it interesting, and for me, the backstory makes a difference to understanding the situation in that area of the world. I never claimed the media ignored it--I said it made all the the difference. To me, in understanding the environment.

I have no sympathy for the pirates who got shot, and I don't think that desperation--or poverty, or what-have-you--give you any right to take away someone else's life or freedom. I just didn't know about the third-party pollution and illegal fishing. That's it.

Mid-Atlantic (not accent); I think it had been in Tinker, Tailor, Soldier, Spy that one character describes a Minister as 'Mid-Atlantic'; i.e, British, but identifying too much with American political viewpoints.

The non-sulphur powders have been, by and large, flops. The ignition points are higher, which means they need a hotter ignition source. This means flintlock is right out (unless one uses regular black powder to start it, in which case one of the advantages is lost; no need to clean afterwards).

They tend to foul less, but they aren't the same by weight, or volume, so one has to keep a table handy to convert from BP values to that of the propellant you've chosen. The best (and the only one which has had any commercial success) seems to be Hogdens 777, which uses sugar, instead of charcoal, for the carbon source.

As to manufacture... it's not hard, but it is quirky, and not for the careless. It want's three separate grinding operations, then a mixing/wetting operation, and then (which is the tricking part), a milling/sieving operation.

Without the wetting/milling, the mixture will settle, and need to be stirred before use, even with that, the mixture will be inconsistent from shot to shot.

But there are lots of things one can do to make things different.

In europe, design a double piston bellows, so one can make steel easily.

Wheels are handy, even without roads (though one is going back a long way to get to no wheels). The Chinese style wheelbarrow is really handy, so long as the ground isn't too broken up.

The bearing axle (as opposed to the direct), makes a big difference too. The arch, the flying buttress, etc.

So I have a query for anyone familiar with English law. I've finally read Brat Farrar and am puzzled by the ending (rot13'd in case anyone else is as benighted as I was):

Ba gur ynfg cntr, jr urne gur onax unf orra gbyq gung gur cynpr "orybatrq gb Fvzba nsgre nyy." Guvf frrzf obthf gb zr, nf Fvzba jnf urve bayl orpnhfr Cngevpx jnf qrnq ol Fvzba'f unaq; guvf jbhyq fhttrfg gung Ratyvfu ynj nyybjf srybaf gb cebsvg sebz gurve pevzrf. Nygreangr cbffvovyvgvrf gung bpphe gb zr:
- Ratyvfu ynj qbrf abg nccyl gur fnzr fgnaqneq gb zvabef, rira vs gur srybal vf zheqre;
- Gur onax unf orra gbyq gung Oeng jnf na vzcbfgbe ohg abg gung Fvzba jnf n zheqrere, va fbzr hccrezvqqyrpynff-Ratyvfu cebprff bs uvqvat gur terngre fpnaqny jvgu gur yrffre;
- Gur nhgube jnagrq hf gb xabj gung Oeng jbhyq or noyr gb pbzr onpx naq zneel Aryy va gur shyyarff bs gvzr, naq unat gur ynj (juvpu bar bs gur snzvyl unf

Any comment, from anyone knowing either English law of that period or Tey's degree of care in constructing plots?

Xopher @ 160

I thought of that while watching the last episode, but haven't had time to work out all the possible consequences. I'm certain it's at least partially correct, orpnhfr gur qbyyubhfr Z.B. vf nyy nobhg pbageby, naq gur orfg jnl gb pbageby crbcyr vf gb xabj gurz gubebhtuyl naq pnershyyl pubbfr gurve punenpgrevfgvpf sbe rnpu wbo. Nyfb, nyzbfg rirelbar ng gur qbyyubhfr unf fbzr phevbhf oyvaq fcbgf va gurve haqrefgnaqvat bs jung gurl qb naq ubj gurl qb vg gung znxr zr fhfcrpg gung gurve punenpgrevfgvpf unir orra pnershyyl pubfra sbe gurve wbof. Jul, sbe vafgnapr, jbhyq gur funqbjl Qbyyubhfr Znfgref uver QrJvgg, jub npghnyyl oryvrirf va gurve cuvynaguebcvp znexrgvat pnag, gb eha na bcrengvba jvgu gung yriry bs frphevgl naq yrtny ceboyrzf? Jbhyqa'g lbh jnag fbzrbar plavpny, jub pbhyq rira tb ntnvafg gur engvbanyr vs arrq or gb fnir gur rabezbhf vairfgzrag vaibyirq?

Ba cbffvovyvgl gung bppheerq gb zr jnf gung rirelbar, pyrne hc gb gur gbc bs gur qbyyubhfr uvrenepul, vf n qbyy. Gurer'f n Jvyyvnz Graa fgbel pnyyrq "Gur Freinag Ceboyrz", va juvpu n gjvfgrq genvy bs pbageby ehaf sebz gur ehyre (pnyyrq "Gur Freinag bs Nyy", VVEP) bs Rnegu guebhtu inevbhf shapgvbanevrf, synccref, jneq urryref, rgp., qbja gb gur ynfg thl, jub pbagebyf gur cynarg guebhtu gurz, ohg gura gheaf bhg gb unir orra pbzcyrgryl pbaqvgvbarq ol gur zvaq pbageby grpuavdhrf hfrq gb rafher gbgny borqvrapr gb gur Freinag. Fbeg bs n cflpuvp pvepyr wrex. V jbhyqa'g or fhecevfrq vs gur Qbyyubhfr vf yvxr gung.

CHiP, how old was the character?

Ratyvfu ynj jnf n ovg fhogyr nobhg pevzvany erfcbafvovyvgl. Gurer jnf na ntr enatr jurer gur cebfrphgvba unq gb cebir gur npphfrq jnf erfcbafvoyr rabhtu. Naq lbh fgvyy unir gb cebir gurl qvq gur qrrq.

Re "Mid-Atlantic" accents: where Pennsylvania was mentioned, note that the southwestern part of the state (shading into northern West Virginia and eastern Ohio for cultural purposes) has its own idiolect, generally called "Pittsburghese." Somayinz might have trouble unerstannin me when I slip into my native dialect. Otherwise the general Mid-Atlantic accent goes from New York State to Maryland and shades into Ohio where it begins to become the Midwestern accent which is the general "non-accented" American accent.

For the other sense of "mid-Atlantic" (note the difference in punctuation here) I always think of Cary Grant as the "original" speaker of that accent, although I think I first actually heard the term applied to Tony Blair.

Re multiplication tables: Two things have always helped me remember them, or at least work my way through when I forgot something. One is the actual tables, which used to be common inside notebooks, composition books, etc., i.e. a spreadsheet-like listing with all the numbers 1 to 12 (it usually was) going across and then down, and as you went along all the possible results were in the table. For example, to find 6 times 8 you could go across the row starting from 6 and then down the column from 8 and where the two met would be "48," and you'd go, "OK."

The other was the realization -- actually stated in our arithmetic book in third or fourth grade -- that mulltiplication is just a quick version of addition. Two times three equals two plus two plus two. Four times three equals four plus four plus four. Etc. So if I can't remember what seven times eight is, I remember 7 squared is 49, and I add 8 to that and get 56. (It tends to be the six-, seven-, and eight-times tables that confuse me, especially the answers in the 40s and 50s. Maybe I was sick the week we first learned that in school.* Is 54 six times nine or seven times eight; I often have to stop and think that one out.)

* It may have been around the time I had measles, which was about this time of year, over Easter weekend. I think that was fourth grade. (Or was it third?) That would be fifty years ago.

Did you know measles is now rare enough to be newsworthy, as in on TV and in newspapers?

Fragano@144: ...farteen times farteen...

Bhayvees, hil sprechen zie 'fart'!"

Huh-heh-pai, heh-huh-pai!!

Bruce Cohen @ 84: "Prior the 18th century, knowledge of trigonometry and analytic geometry (and a slide rule* or table of sines**, if possible) would be extremely useful."

I'm pretty sure my most saleable skill prior to the 18th century would be cryptography, though I could probably reconstruct enough basic calculus and trig to revolutionize mathematics--codebreaking just seems so much more likely to bring royal patronage.

abi @ 97: FTW

Lee @ 113" "somewhere in here, we get into the issue of whether or not it's a Good Thing to make students memorize times-tables, or whether calculators should be allowed in exams. My gut feeling is that the former is still a good idea because it gives you tools for doing rough estimates later in life, and the ability to make rough estimates is an important part of critical thinking."

So much of algebra, in my experience, consists of looking at numbers and simply knowing their relationships. Guessing and checking with your calculator is possible, but mind-numbing, and studying while mind-numb isn't a good way to learn. Without having the fundamentals down pat, working through the more advanced stuff is a joyless slog. It would be like trying to compose an essay while having to look up how to shape each letter.

Xopher @ 136: "Abg gung NAL bs gur crbcyr jub eha gur Qbyyubhfr qrfreir nalguvat orggre guna n ohyyrg va gur urnq VZB."

Be qb gurl? Jr qba'g xabj jung gur Qbyyubhfr'f hygvzngr checbfr vf, nsgre nyy. Znlor vg jvyy or pbaivapvatyl oraribyrag. V gubhtug gur rkpunatr orgjrra Qrjvgg naq Qbzvavp ng gur raq bs gur zbfg erprag rcvfbqr jnf irel vagrerfgvat--Qrjvgg frrf gur Qbyyubhfr nf gur nygreangvir gb gur AFN pbagebyyvat gur grpu, naq tvira gung pubvpr, V unir gb nterr gung gur Qbyyubhfr vf gur yrffre onq.

Bruce Cohen @ 169: On the other hand, vs rirelbar va n cbfvgvba bs nhgubevgl vf nyernql n qbyy, gura jul jnfa'g Qbzvavp? Ur jnf n qbhoyr-ntrag vafregrq ol gur AFN--gung xvaq bs guvat jbhyq or vzcbffvoyr vs rirelbar jnf n qbyy.

So, the fascoRepublithugStalinistRedactorRewrite crew being one hopes ousted from the gravytrain express revenue and disinformation junket they had from 2001-2008, have been busily infesting and reorganizing to their intents and purposes, the apparatus of information dissemination and distribution in the commercial world, following having their patron faciliators voted out in the majority of cases....

That is, the ones who didn't get "burrowed in" into the federal apparatus, are now out playing terminate in the private sector where they can do the most harm to social fabric they consider inappropriate.

Methinks a massive fumigation campaign is in order.

http://tehdely.livejournal.com/88823.html

has an analysis and responses that the situation is likely the result of an intentional, malicious, orchestrated disinformation campaign by the pseudoChristian fascist right wing. Is there some way to go after these hatemongering fanatics and do the same thing to THEIR materials, and make them spend their time cleaning up after themselves instead of everyone else having to spend their time trying to remove grease, mud, excrement, garbage, toxic waste, and napalm spewed by Rovian tactics and glued onto the targets the Rovian Wrong Wing attacks?!

Labeling everything that Tim LaHaye writes and all the materials of the Dobson crowd as fascist hatemongering bigoted intolerant fanatic sociopathic unAmerican theocratic lunatic ravings is no more and no less than the truth of the matter. They're hatemongering intolerant fascist unAmerican sociopaths who daily abrogate and promote abrogation of civil nonsectarian law for the goal of imposing their brand of religion theocracy on the world....

abi @51, will shetterly @115, I meant to say mid-atlantic rather than mid-american, but was still recovering from attending a beer festival. I'd taken mid-atlantic to be that non-specific american accent that is spoken on TV; shorn of all local words and pronounciations - a very tame american accent slightly influenced by RP. I note that this is the accent I often hear in the voices of spokepeople from Russia, Israel and occasionally from elsewhere in the world; perfect American English that doesn't actually come from anywhere in America.

As it happens I've been working with kids to improve their maths. One of them brought up the "can't we just use a calculator" so I used a real life problem* to demonstrate.

They absolutely and totally need their times tables (although up to 10x10 would do with the method for long multiplication we teach them), and sadly some of them haven't. Which leads us back to why I was hired to help them. The only thing we can really do is get them to practice and practice and hope the knowledge sticks this time.

* from the time I went to a wedding in Rome and I and 3 friends hired a villa for a week for €995. I put down a €300 deposit, so how much did everyone owe who? Apart from proving my point, at least one of them learnt that the Euro is divided into 100 cents**.
** Except in France.

Madeline Ashby @ 111... we've spent our Easter holidays not with Biblical epics, but with Tolkienish ones. Same themes, different costumes, more SFX, fewer bare chests

Is that a criticism of Tolkienish epics? Come to think of it, the only bare chest I remember from LoTR is Elijah Wood's. It rather literally pales in comparison to Charlton Heston's.

heresiarch 173: gurl pbzzvg gur jbefg xvaq bs ntteningrq encr, naq V'z abg hfvat ulcreobyr, V'z orvat yvgreny. Gurl unir gubfr crbcyr ercebtenzzrq fb gurl guvax gurl'er qbvat rirelguvat ibyhagnevyl, naq znxvat gurz unir frk jvgu crbcyr gurl unir ab (npghny) pubvpr nobhg. Va fhpu na rkgerzr pnfr, gur grez nccyvrf rdhnyyl jryy gb zra yvxr Ivpgbe.

Vg'f cbffvoyr gb pynvz gung gurl'er abg ivpgvzf bs rkgerzr encr, ohg cnegvpvcnagf va rkgerzr cebfgvghgvba. V jbhyq fgvyy fnl gurl'er ratntrq va n fhcerzryl rivy sbez bs uhzna genssvpxvat (genssvpxrq ivpgvzf va bhe jbeyq ng yrnfg xrrc rabhtu bs gurzfryirf gb JNAG gb rfpncr, naq fbzrgvzrf gb fhpprrq). Ohg yrg'f ybbx ng gur guerr pnfrf jurer jr xabj ubj fbzrbar orpnzr n Qbyy:

Rpub: jnf tvira n pubvpr bs arire ntnva frrvat gur yvtug bs qnl be orpbzvat n Qbyy. Qrjvgg frrzrq gb guvax vg jnf n ernyyl fjrrg qrny fur jnf bssrevat.

Thl sebz gur havirefvgl/qeht rcvfbqr: jnf tvira n pubvpr bs qrngu be orpbzvat n Qbyy. Qvggb ba Qrjvgg'f orunivbe.

Fvreen: jnf tvira ab pubvpr ng nyy. N thl jub jnagrq ure neenatrq gb or noyr gb ohl gur bccbeghavgl gb encr ure jurarire ur jnagrq, naq unir ure npg yvxr fur yvxrq vg (jryy, fur qbrf yvxr vg, ohg fur'f qehttrq—abg yvgrenyyl, ohg gryy zr bar jnl va juvpu gur Qbyyznxvat cebprff vfa'g nf onq nf, be jbefr guna, qehttvat fbzrbar gb unir lbhe jnl jvgu gurz). Fur jnf xvqanccrq naq znqr n Qbyy ol sbepr.

Gurer znl or fbzr vaqvivqhnyf jub'ir orpbzr Qbyyf ibyhagnevyl, ohg jr unira'g frra n pnfr bs gung ba guvf fubj. Naq nsgrejneqf, gurl'yy nyy fnl gurl qvq. Bs pbhefr gurl jvyy, vs gurl erzrzore orvat Qbyyf ng nyy.

Vg'f n znffvir uhzna-genssvpxvat NXN encr-sbe-cebsvg bcrengvba. V'z abg fher lbh'er jebat gung gur AFN jbhyq or rira jbefr, ohg vg'f sne sebz pyrne gb zr gung lbh'er evtug; orfvqrf, va ernyvgl gur hfr bs gur grpuabybtl znxrf vg rnfvre sbe gur AFN gb trg vgf unaqf ba vg, abg uneqre. Gur orfg pbhefr jbhyq or gb qrfgebl gur qngnonfrf naq xabjyrqtr fgbentr bs gur grpu, naq nyy ohg bar bs gur punvef, hfr gung ynfg bar gb jvcr gur zvaqf bs rirelbar jub xabjf nal grpuavpny qrgnvyf, gura qrfgebl gung bar.

I don't know whether he coined the expression--I doubt it--but for a reference point, Tom Wolfe's Mid-Atlantic Man was published in 1969. My recollection is that I first encountered it in the New Yorker and likely about that time.

Xopher @ 179

hfr gung ynfg bar gb jvcr gur zvaqf bs rirelbar jub xabjf nal grpuavpny qrgnvyf, gura qrfgebl gung bar.

Jryy, lrnu, ohg gura jung unccraf gb jubrire vf yrsg gb qrfgebl gung ynfg punve? Gung'f n ybg bs grzcgngvba gb qebc ba fbzrbar jub xabjf jung gur grpuabybtl vf pncnoyr bs. Frr gur raq bs Serq Cbuy'f "N Cynthr bs Clgubaf" sbe rknpgyl guvf fpranevb.

V nterr gung gurer'f abg zhpu gb pubbfr orgjrra AFN naq gur Qbyyubhfr betnavmngvba. V thrff vg jbhyq or n pubvpr orgjrra gur Qbyyubhfr'f sbez bs uhzna genssvpxvat, cevznevyl sbe cebfgvghgvba, naq gur AFN'f rkgrafvbaf bs gur xvqanccvat naq pbaqvgvbavat bs puvyq fbyqvref gb nqhygf naq gb pbireg jnesner. Juvpu erzvaqf zr, jurer qbrf Gbcure trg gurfr fhcrefcl crefbanyvgvrf ur chgf vagb Rpub naq Fvreen? Ur pna'g unir perngrq gurz sebz jubyr pybgu; gurer unir gb or fbzr erny crbcyr ur'f tbggra gur onfvp fxvyyf naq nggvghqrf sebz. Gur Qbyyubhfr pyrneyl unf npprff gb fbzr rfcvbantr/pbhagre-rfcvbantr erfbheprf, jurgure vaqvivqhnyf gurl'ir znantrq gb erpbeq, be jubyr natrapvrf gurl jbex jvgu.

Naq gung'f nabgure cbvag gung obguref zr. Jul qbrf gur AFN jnag gb gnxr gur grpuabybtl naq abg gur crefbaary bs gur Qbyyubhfr? Gur Qbyyubhfr ybbxf sebz gur bhgfvqr yvxr n zrepranel betnavmngvba, jvgu ab vqrbybtvpny svkngvbaf (nffhzvat gung QrJvgg vf qryhqvat urefrys, juvpu frrzf yvxryl gb zr). AFN vf dhvgr pncnoyr bs fvzcyl bssrevat n pbagvahvat svefg-cevbevgl freivpr pbagenpg eryngvbafuvc, naq qevivat hc qhzcgehpxf shyy bs zbarl ba n erthyne fpurqhyr gb xrrc gur Qbyyubhfr vagrerfgrq.

Strata Chalup #172: My father was Jamaican. He pronounced "four" and "far" very similarly.

Bruce 181: Vs fbzrbar tbg rabhtu pbageby bire gur Qbyyubhfrf naq gur grpu gb qb gur bgure guvatf V'ir fnvq, naq jnfa'g qvffhnqrq ol oevorel be guerngf gb gung cbvag, gung crefba jbhyq unir gur zbeny fgeratgu gb qrfgebl gur ynfg punve. V jbhyq, naljnl. Hayrff gur crefba jnf vagb univat vg nyy gb uvefrys sebz gur irel svefg, juvpu jbhyq fhpx.

Nf sbe gur AFN...jul jbhyq gurl cnl gehpxybnqf bs zbarl jura gurl pna whfg fgrny gur grpu naq gur Gbcuref naq frg hc sbe gurzfryirf? Va snpg, jul jbhyqa'g gurl whfg yrnir gur Qbyyubhfrf va cynpr naq orpbzr fvyrag cnegaref? Jul hfr zbarl jura lbh pna hfr sbepr? (Guvf vf zl cebwrpgvba bs gur rguvpf, be ynpx gurerbs, bs gur AFN, abg zl bja rguvpf.)

Nf sne nf gur Qbyyubhfr grpu vf pbaprearq, onfrq ba gur fvghngvba nf cerfragrq va gur frevrf fb sne V guvax gur yrnfg onq bcgvba vf gb jvqryl choyvpvmr gur rkvfgrapr bs gur grpuabybtl naq gel gb svther bhg ubj orfg gb tb sebz gurer.

Gur fvghngvba frrzf gb unir tbar cnfg gur cbvag jurer fhccerffvba vf na bcgvba. Ebffhz unf Qbyyubhfrf va zhygvcyr pbhagevrf naq gurer ner vaqvpngvbaf gung gurl'er abg gur bayl barf jvgu gur grpu.

(Ba gur fvqr vffhr bs jurgure nal bs gur "qbyyf" gehyl fvtarq hc ibyhagnevyl, onfrq ba "Arrqf" V fgebatyl fhfcrpg gung Abirzore trahvaryl jnagrq gb wbva. Cbffvoyl Ivpgbe nf jryy, nygubhtu jr qba'g xabj rabhtu nobhg uvf cnfg gb gryy.)

Neil Willcox @ 177... the Euro is divided into 100 cents. Except in France.

Let me guess.
Centimes?

Thomas Jefferson was born two hundred and fifty-six years ago today.

John Adams: 'And we solemly declare that we will preserve our liberties, being with one mind resolved to die free men rather than to live slaves.' Thomas Jefferson "On the Necessity of Taking Up Arms," 1775. Magnificent! Why, you write ten times better than any man in Congress. Including me. For a man of only thirty-three years, you have a happy talent of composition and a remarkable felicity of expression. Now then sir: will you be a patriot? Or a lover?
Thomas Jefferson: A lover.

Xopher @#179: Gurer znl or fbzr vaqvivqhnyf jub'ir orpbzr Qbyyf ibyhagnevyl, ohg jr unira'g frra n pnfr bs gung ba guvf fubj.

V guvax vg'f uvtuyl cebonor gung Abirzore qvq, gb rfpncr gur cnva bs ure qnhtugre'f qrngu. Vg rira frrzf cbffvoyr fur'yy pubbfr gb pbagvahr gb or n qbyy nsgre ure svefg pbagenpg vf hc, vs bayl orpnhfr fur unfa'g npghnyyl orra cebprffvat gur tevrs, whfg abg erzrzorevat vg.

Naq gurer'f tbvat gb or n ybiryl yvggyr qvyrzzn nobhg "Zryyvr be (jungrire ure bevtvany anzr jnf)", ng fbzr cbvag*; Onyyneq vf tbvat gb fgnl ranzberq bs Zryyvr qrfcvgr xabjvat fur'f abg "erny", vs bayl ol cebkvzvgl.

*Nffhzvat Sbk'f rkrpf ner vzcevagrq gb unir fbzr sevttvat frafr sbe bapr.

Serge, #186:

A: "Now you'll write it, Mr. J!"
J: "Who will make me, Mr. A?"
A: "I will!"
J: "You?"
A (5'9"): "Yes!"
J (6'4"): "...How?"
A: "By physical force if necessary! It's your duty, dammit!"

Beautiful scene. It's like a Pomeranian facing down an Afghan hound.

Lois Fundis (171): I also have problems with 6s and 7s (and, to a lesser extent, 8s). Not sure why.

Neil Willcox (177): I learned the times tables only up through 10; 11 and 12 were treated as double digits multiplication, not learned by rote.

Lee @ 188... Only 3 months and then we can celebrate without any of the mental reservations imposed upon us by the first 8 years of the 21st Century.

Neil Wilcox: re foriegn announcers: What I notice is most of them seem to be working toward BBC English. The vowels, and stresses, are pretty apparent to me (this is esp. true in Russian. I can pretty quickly tell if someone learned from an American, or a British, teacher).

Reading accents: I have a tiny NPR staff in my head to read the newspaper to me. ANY movie review (even ones written by women) gets read in Bob Mandello's voice. ANYTHING about legal decisions, Nina Totenberg. Italy, Sylvia Pojoli. (The tiny Sylvia-simulacrum I carry around also read the whole Berlusconi thread here to me.) There's also a generic Indian guy who reads any quotes from Indian officials in the paper, but not the surrounding stories.

Why? No clue. I realized it a couple years ago, and it's only been getting stronger since then. (The Nina Totenberg was first, and is especially pushy. But somehow, reading court decisions in her voice magically makes them easier for me to understand, so I guess that's ok.)

Otherwise, it's my own voice that reads to me. Somehow I manage to translate all other accents into US-equivalents. (You know, like how anime often has its "hick" characters speak with a Southern accent/dialect when it's translated into English? Yeah, I do that with Granny Weatherwax. I know it's wrong, but there you go.)

I doubt Bill Watterson drew this. But I bet he'd like it:

The Future

Stefan Jones @ 193... It's beautiful!

Cat Meadors: I'm glad it works for you, but if that was happening to me (esp. Nina Totenberg; which is because I dislike her analysis/commentary for content, as well as finding her voice annoying), I'd go crazy.

I like the, generally, neutral tone I have for unknown people.

Now I'm wondering if I'm weird. I don't hear people when I read.

Stefan Jones @ 193:

Seeing that always makes me smile.

Serge@178:

No criticism here. Though Gollum technically has a bare chest, too. And I'm sure I glimpsed an Orc nipple here or there.

Speaking of which, we did briefly tune into The Ten Commandments, which precipitated a conversation regarding the possible visibility of Anne Baxter's nipples. Granted, the entire film is nipple-licious, but we were surprised Ms. Baxter's contribution(s) made it in.

Then we decided more buckling of swash was necessary to cleanse our befouled minds.

Madeline Ashby @ 197... How could I forget Gollum's sculpted physique? (Well, it was literally sculpted.)

Ann Baxter, eh?

KeithS @ 196... You mean that it's been around for some time? I wonder if I'd get rapped on the knuckles if I posted it on my blog.

KeithS #196: Now I'm wondering if I'm weird. I don't hear people when I read.

It's one of the fringe benefits of having attended many authors readings at SF conventions over the years: for the authors I've heard in person, that's the voice that narrates their work for me. Some of the writers in the wild have amazing reading voices.

Serge @ 199:

It's been around for a little while, but I have no idea how long, and I don't know where it's from. It's just out there. No one who I've seen that's posted it knows either.

But go ahead and put it on your blog. To me, at least, that one doesn't get old.

KeithS @ 201... I wonder if the little girl's mother is Suzy.

NOTE TO SELF:

Next time you are in a nostalgic mood on Easter and try to recreate a Holiday at Grandma's meal, don't be disappointed when the $1.99 canned ham purchased at Walgreen's fails to measure up. The "Celebrity" brand name should really have been a give-away.

Also, your choice of potato salad sucks.

That is all.

Stefan, #193: ...or the children of your friends, which is where a fair amount of my leftover kidstuff wound up.

Serge 202: I wonder if the little girl's mother is Suzy.

No, she isn't. While Calvin and Suzy remained close (even inseparable) throughout high school, they were never romantically involved. Being only children, they were each others' substitute siblings. (Calvin was Suzy's prom date, but neither of them dated much in high school, and they made a mutual decision to astonish everyone by showing up at the prom at all.)

Calvin calmed down greatly when his ADHD was finally appropriately diagnosed. His parents made the difficult decision not to medicate him, but helped him learn control through a variety of feedback and meditation techniques. He never stopped dreaming, though, and once he could sit still for long enough began to write down many of his fantasies.

Suzy and Calvin continued to correspond while away at separate universities (Calvin at MIT, Suzy at Stanford). Suzy dragged her unwilling roommate along to the Worldcon one year; Diana was not enchanted by the convention (which she described as "the largest collection of really dumbass t-shirts I've ever seen"), but she was smitten with Suzy's old friend, and he with her.

After a long-distance relationship in college, Calvin and Diana were married a year into graduate school (at UCSD). Their little girl is named Susan, but never called Suzy, and all parties deny that she's named after her father's childhood friend. She does, however, call Suzy (now a prominent lawyer who many whisper will be a judge before long) "Aunt Suzy," and the visits are frequent and pleasant for all concerned.

Suzy married a surgeon named Bill. Their wedding vows included, for some reason, him promising to "say you're the doctor when you insist." Suzy sometimes calls Bill "Mr. Buns," though only Calvin gets that one and Suzy refuses to explain. She and Bill have no children yet, but they both say that won't be a permanent state of affairs.

Calvin works for an aerospace company, but has also published several stories in Asimov's and Analog. Diana caught him once holding a bottle of ketchup and making a Hugo acceptance speech, but the actual award has so far eluded him.

Xopher, that is utterly delightfully imagined.

Xopher, that's beautiful.

Xopher #205: Awww....

Anyone who has a minute and ten seconds to waste might conceivably wish to listen to this insomnia-induced thing I recorded last night. Or not.

Clifton, KeithS, David: thank you.

Xopher @ 205... Wow.

Post #205 got me thinking: if you subscribe to the interpretation of Calvin and Hobbes in which Hobbes is actually some kind of supernatural creature--which I prefer, since if Calvin is actually talking to himself the whole time the strip is more creepy than funny--what happens to Hobbes when Calvin grows up?

The image linked to in #193 has him passing Hobbes off to his kid, but Hobbes himself looks ambivalent about the deal. I figure Calvin keeps Hobbes around, telling everyone that the stuffed tiger on the coffee table is a memento of his childhood.

The thing is, though, that Calvin no longer carries Hobbes around all the time... so Calvin's friends and family have no explanation when Hobbes turns up in another part of the house, or down at the corner bar, or waiting outside the grocery store. Eventually it becomes incontrovertibly clear that the stuffed tiger is, somehow, moving around by itself.

Calvin won't hear of getting rid of the doll, of course, no matter how it scares people. For a while his marriage is strained. Eventually he buys a bigger house with the advance from his latest novel and gives Hobbes its own wing with a separate entrance so nobody has to be around it anymore.

Eventually, of course, Calvin dies. His kids come across Hobbes when clearing out the estate. The doll creeps them out as much as ever, especially after they find it in the kitchen, with a can opener, sitting by a pile of empty tuna cans. They sell Hobbes on eBay, advertised as a HAUNTED TIGER DOLL!!!!

The buyer gets more than he bargained for. Hobbes is passed from hand to hand and written up in several volumes of ghost legends, becoming as famous as Hugo the ventriloquist's dummy and the Cymbal Monkey of Death. Eventually he falls into the hands of an attractive forensics expert who, like Calvin, has a genetic mutation that allows her to see the tiger-spirit housed within the unassuming stuffed toy.

This, of course, is the point where they team up to solve crimes.

("The police! You idiot, Thibault, you were followed!"

"I don't understand! There's nobody around but... this stuffed tiger...")

Dave Bell: 13. Gur jnl gur fgbel vf ynvq bhg, Fvzba vf thvygl nf uryy; ur fgntrq n fhvpvqr yrnc (pbng uhat hc arkg gb n pyvss) jvgu n abgr jevggra jvgu Cngevpx'f snibevgr cra, gura guerj gur cra va gur dhneel arkg gb gur (pbirerq) obql.

There's a great spoof Calvin cartoon in which Spaceman Spiff tries to avoid taking the ADHD drugs that evil aliens are trying to force down his throat.

The last scene shows kid-sized footprints in the snow, leading up to and away from a garbage can containing a stuffed tiger.

Wesley @ 212:

I don't really see Hobbes looking ambivalent in that picture. It seems more of a wistful look back at Calvin before going off to play with the daughter.

Your interpretation is nicely creepy, though.

Stefan Jones @ 214:

It's not the one you're thinking of, but here.

Xopher @ 205

That was absolutely delightful.

Xopher @ 179: "Gur orfg pbhefr jbhyq or gb qrfgebl gur qngnonfrf naq xabjyrqtr fgbentr bs gur grpu, naq nyy ohg bar bs gur punvef, hfr gung ynfg bar gb jvcr gur zvaqf bs rirelbar jub xabjf nal grpuavpny qrgnvyf, gura qrfgebl gung bar."

Gb zr, gung'f ol sne gur jbefg bcgvba. Nyy vg rafherf vf gung jubrire riraghnyyl raqf hc erqvfpbirevat gur grpuabybtl naq xrrcvat vg vf tbvat gb or na nzbeny cflpubcngu. Grpuabybtl arire trgf uneqre gb vairag: vs vg vf cbffvoyr, fbbare be yngre fbzrbar jvyy svther bhg ubj gb znxr vg. Lbh pna'g tb onpx--gur bayl cngu bhg vf guebhtu.

Gung'f jurer V frr gur Qbyyubhfrf naq Ebffhz Pbecbengvba fgnegvat bhg. Gurl gevrq gb orpbzr gur yrnfg jbefg bcgvba, juvyr gelvat gb svther bhg fbzrguvat orggre. Ohg evpu crbcyr unir gurve bja ntraqnf, naq oevtug yvarf yvxr "nyy ibyhagrre Qbyyf" fgnegrq trggvat oyheerq. Abj gurl bpphcl n fcnpr jurer gurl ner fgvyy pbaivaprq gung gur pbzcebzvfrf gurl znxr ner arprffnel, ohg vg'f abg fb pyrne sebz gur bhgfvqr.

Zbfgyl V guvax guvf orpnhfr na biregyl rivy pbecbengvba jbhyq whfg or fb pyvpur.

Stefan #193 -- Beautiful!

And note that Paul said "put away", not "throw away".

James D. Macdonald@#25:
I'm totally in favor of memorization and recitation, particularly of poetry.

As someone who never managed to write anything properly without copious use of the "Gueuloir" (as Flaubert called it) I am too, especially the second part.

KeithS@44 & xeger@45:
To keep things short I've been left aphasic (damn is it already two years ago now ?) and am now slowly getting better, it seems (though I still sometimes display, among other things, what I call "Babel talk", mixing my wolof, soninke, french, japanese, english and spanish... fun for all the family).

Anyway...

While I was in Japan last summer, I experienced both those in a couple of days. Could read, couldn't talk. Couldn't read, could talk. I had never realised before the feeling of agression from all the writen words in public environments, be it from advertising or other sources. I really felt less tense, for lack of a better description, when I couldn't read all the signs around. It was not from just the images, but the words, as units of meaning screaming to be heard other my consciouness, that the feeling came I realised. As if the air was heavier to breathe.

I may be misreading all this of course, but that's how I felt.

I still missed the ability to read more.

Damn I don't remember what my point was.

Sorry.

Apropos of nothing...

Over the weekend, my fiancee Katy and I went to see the vicar who's going to marry us. He's technically retired (being in his ninetys) but has agreed to do the ceremony as he's known Katy all her life. He's reasonably compus mentis, but (from my brief experience) notably eccentric.

One of the first things he said to us was "Katy - you know about dancing. I have been listening to 16th/17th century music recently, but it doesn't make sense if I don't know how it's suppposed to be danced to. Can you recommend a book?"

Now, Katy did indeed take ballet and modern dance in her teens, but it didn't adequately prepare here for this particular nonegenarian request. I'm about to dive into amazon and see what I can find, but it occurred me that if there's an online community where I might be able to get a first hand recommendation for a text that covers 16th and/or 17th Century formal dance, then this is it.

So...I'm afraid that's as much information as I was given. Any takers?

It's in First Lensman that Virgil Samms discoveres that humans and Rigellians share the ability to not notice advertising.

(Say what you like about the overall quality, the guy had his moments as a writer.)

CHip @ 213: It's been a while since I read it, but I think vg'f abg jung gur ernqre naq gur snzvyl abj xabj, vg'f jung pna or cebirq va n pbheg bs ynj. Fvzba jnf arire sbhaq thvygl bs nal pevzr, fb gurer'f ab erfgvghgvba nf cneg bs n pevzvany ireqvpg.

Gung yrnirf n pvivy ynjfhvg ol gur arkg nygreangvir urve: ohg gur nygreangvir urve vf nyfb Fvzba'f erfvqhny urve naq vf abj va cbfrffvba! (Sebz gur grkg, Fvzba'f fvfgre vf pyrneyl gur arkg urve ohg abg zhpu qrgnvy vf tvira. V nz nffhzvat Fvzba qvrq vagrfgngr, be gurve cneragf' jvyy cebivqrq sbe Fvzba'f qrngu jvgubhg puvyqera ). Jvgu abobql gb fhr naq ab batbvat ybff, ab yrtny npgvba vf arrqrq.

Gurer zvtug pbaprvinoyl or n fhvg ntnvafg gur gehfgrrf gb erpbire nal vapbzr tvira gb Fvzba orsber ur jnf 21. Ohg nf gur gehfgrrf npgrq va tbbq snvgu naq gurve npgvbaf jrer ernfbanoyr, vg'f abg yvxryl gb fhpprrq. Nyfb vg jbhyq or ehqr.

Russ @220 -- Susan at Capering & Kickery is an excellent source of information.

MD² @219 -- I had never realised before the feeling of agression from all the writen words in public environments, be it from advertising or other sources. I really felt less tense, for lack of a better description, when I couldn't read all the signs around. It was not from just the images, but the words, as units of meaning screaming to be heard other my consciouness, that the feeling came I realised.

I understand exactly what you mean. One of the things that struck me about moving to Germany was how much quieter it was here (and thankfully has remained). There aren't many billboards, and there's just generally less visual advertising, even in large cities. It seems one can't NOT read visual information, or at least try to process it if it's in a remotely familiar format, so when I'm in the US I always feel a heightened undercurrent of stress, or activation or something.

Wesley @#212: Besides being even creepier than you claim the original to be, your interpretation is simply not supported by the "original text":

(1) Calvin is six years old, an age well-known for creative fantasy, and definitely below the "age of reason".

(2) It's made clear often, that Calvin's wild flights of fantasy, are linked with bizarre behavior. ("Captain Stupendous" is particularly dramatic.) Also note that Hobbes doesn't appear in most of those fantasy sequences, not even as a sidekick.

(3) It's also made clear that regardless of Calvin's fantasies, reality proceeds according to its own rules. Notably, Hobbes won't (that is, can't) defend him against the bully Moe, let alone help him persecute Susie, or do his homework for him.

(4) We, the readers, can see all this as funny, because it's nicely contained in a comic strip. But within his world, Calvin's behavior does indeed baffle and disturb those around him.

Personally, I'd much rather see Calvin as a highly intelligent child, using his creativity as a defense against life's "slings and arrows", than as the pixilated victim of some "supernatural creature".

MD² #219, Debbie #223:

I have the same reaction to advertising in general, but yeah, excessive signage is disturbing in it's own way. In my case, at least part of that is due to my hyperlexia -- printed words in general tend to visually "pop out" at me the same way that bright colors do (for almost everyone). And given the character of this forum, I strongly suspect lots of us qualify as hyperlexic!

Note that personally, I'd define the term a bit differently than given at the link -- it's clearly a trait commonly found with autistic-spectrum conditions, but I strongly doubt it's unique to the autistic spectrum, and it definitely extends well beyond early childhood! I've known people with the trait who clearly weren't neurotypical, but who also didn't particularly match up with the "spectrum" criteria. (To cross topics, at least one of those would have nicely fit the Calvin pattern!)

CHiP, this is a newspaper report from 1995 which outlines the legal framework which would have applied to Simon.

I recall a report on BBC radio--one of those little things that sticks--to the effect that this intermediate stage fitted rather well with developmental psychology. There's a change in how people perceive other people, usually happening somewhere in that 10-14 age range.

Reading between the lines of the report, I wonder if the courts were presuming a little too much.

#193, Stefan Jones -

Ooh! (Although Hobbes' expression has a hint of wistfulness that makes me sad, in spite of Calvin's cheeriness.)

#205, Xopher - Win. Absolute win.

#212 - Wesley - I prefer the standard reading of the strip because I like the sweetness of it but I can see why you like the creepy version, and I'd be right there to read this if it were fleshed out into a story. It too is wonderful, in a completely different way.

Interrupting this open thread-in-progress to let you know that this week's This American Life podcast closes with a discussion of This is Just to Say - a deconstruction and a bunch of parodies. The theme of the TAL episode is Mistakes were Made.

Wesley @ 212: Some years ago, I tried to write a short story which used something like that as a premise. The protagonist was a police officer in Charles de Lint's Ottawa -- the guy who keeps getting stuck with investigating the horrible supernatural incidents, and is developing a reputation as someone whose presence is unhealthy for bystanders. The story hinged on similarities to an unsolved case from years before, in which a child disappeared, leaving evidence of a horrible attack by a large cat-like creature: a few hairs, some tracks which shrink and fade out, a bit of fuzz at the end. "Crap. This looks like the thing that got the Chesnutt kid, way back when."

(In one of the early strips, Calvin claims that Hobbes ate Tommy Chesnutt, after Tommy bothered Calvin at school. "UGH! He needed a bath, too." Turns out that Tom Chesnutt was an old friend of Bill Watterson's.)

MD² @ 219:

I'm not sure you need a point, but that's interesting to hear. I know I have trouble not reading things, so if you can't really read then all of a sudden all that noise in the surroundings fades into the background.

Dave Bell @ 221:

I was reminded of the advertising on the Rigellians' planet in China. In the cities, if you can put an ad on something, possibly a video ad that makes noise, there will be one there. Or those awful things popping up at some gas stations here in the US for that matter.

Thanks Debbie@223; I'll head over there.

Also to Xopher@205, I'd just like to add an "awwwwww..."

:D

Russ @ 231... Kickery definitely is the place to go.

Openthreadiness - Here's what happens when an author spends a little _too_ much time designing a language for his aliens:

http://www.ai-institute.org/index.htm

WRT to Calvin and Hobbes and other comic strips -- I've always enjoyed playing with the idea that they exist in the comic strip universe, where litle boys are little boys forever, spinning through an endless cycle of months. Sometime around the beginning of the schoolyear, the cycle flips back and they start a new year, same age, but with different events.

Some strips, like Baby Blues and Luann, slowly move their characters ahead, but much slower than realtime.

Here's what happens when an author spends a little _too_ much time designing a language for his aliens

I think the Silmarillion has been characterised that way.

Serge, Bruce Cohen, R.M. Koske, Russ: Thank you.

Steve C. #234: That suggests come interesting interactions with the cast of For Better Or For Worse, who were aged in realtime until recently.

re 220: Also Playford.

Xopher, #205: Allow me to join the chorus and say that's wonderful!

KeithS, #230: ObSF: in the ClassicTrek episode "Charlie X", reading is the analogy McCoy uses to explain why Charlie can't just stop using his power to make things "go away". Once you know how to read, you can't just look at text (in a language you understand) and NOT read it. I still remember how much that resonated with me.

Steve #234 & David #237: To say nothing of Gasoline Alley*, Funky Winkerbean and Crankshaft. I think the last two already interact occasionally. Tank MacNamara may also move in real time, or at least realer than comics time. I'm always amused when comic strip characters cross over briefly to other strips.

*My father has always maintained that he is the same age as Skeezix, but he's actually a few months younger.

Thanks, Lee.

I think Hobbes is Calvin's unconscious mind. Calvin puts a NO GIRLZ ALOUD sign on the clubhouse, and Hobbes says "Who do we smooch then?" Calvin tells Hobbes that wearing a sombrero isn't cool, but Hobbes says "What's the use of being cool if you can't wear a sombrero?"

Actually he's more than Calvin's unconscious; he's Calvin's other self. Sometimes Hobbes is the one who tells Calvin when he's being silly, which is pretty cool when you think about it.

My mom tells me I was like Calvin in every way when I was that age. I never had a Hobbes, though, so my inner life was rather different. (I never backed the family car into a ditch or set anything—well, anything big—on fire, I have to add.)

A few months ago, I had a really weird dream in which I was a character in a comic strip that was partly like Peanuts, partly like For Better or for Worse. I became aware that there had been some kind of reset: all the people around me were back the way they had been many years before. And my joy about the return of beloved friends and relations long-departed was mixed with creeping horror about knowing their inevitable fates, with a sense that we'd be trapped in some kind of loop forever...

Xopher @ 241:

You have read the essay positing that Fight Club is about Calvin and Hobbes after Calvin's grown up, right?

No, but I haven't seen Fight Club, so I doubt it would mean much to me. I'm told I'd actually like it, but I generally don't like to see people hitting each other (got my fill of it as spectator and participant before I got to be a teenager), so that's a bit of a barrier.

Xopher @ 205: That's lovely.

My brother and I used to make the snowmen that Watterson drew. We even have some pictures of the one in front of the car.

Ginger @ 245... Did your parents also say "I think we'd better get that kid to a psychologist" ?

Xopher @#241: It think the term you want is "shadow", in the Jungian sense. Applying Jung to a 6 year old seems faintly dubious to me, but if a kid that age did start forming a shadow, then it probably would be externalized in much that fashion.

In the comic-book "Son of a Genius", we are asked to ponder what would happen if Franklin Richards, son of the leader of the Fantastic Four, had a personality not unlike that of Calvin. Yes, you may shudder at the thought. Especially with all those supposedly deactivated doombots that Dad keeps in the closet.

I'm enjoying the speculations on/extensions of "Calvin and Hobbes" immensely.

Thanks, particularly, Xopher and Wesley, and the rest of you in general.

Serge @ 246: Good question. I certainly didn't hear anything from them.

Then again, we were teens, and known readers of "Calvin and Hobbes".

Xopher @ 244:

Fair enough.

For anyone who wants to read it and hasn't seen it before, Fight Club The Return of Hobbes. Spoilers ahoy.

Xopher: That was wonderful!

One of the funnier things I read a while back (on the late, lamented GEnie) was a short piece about Calvin on ST:TNG, when Worf was assigned to watch him. The line I liked was was, "The fight ended, as all of Worf's fights did, with the Klingon being knocked unconscious."

Tracie, #240: Tank moves in realtime as far as being topical, but I don't think the characters age much, or have significant life changes -- they tend to use the Star Trek Reset Button a lot.

Earl @200: From not attending cons regularly, I'm afraid that I'll have some trouble adjusting my reading of Tim Powers and Ian Watson after seeing them at Eastercon, for different reasons. Powers-in-my-mind had a generic voice, kind of mid-Atlantic, but also somewhat earnest. Tim Powers in life is a charming, laconic, dryly funny Californian. I don't know how his books will sound when I pick them up next.

As for Ian Watson, the real one has this marvelous, theatrical tone, like a Shakespearian actor. At the moment the only one of his books I have is a Games Workshop Space Marine one that I've never read. Like a Shakespearian actor may actually be the only way to read it.

BTW, Madeline @89, I'll buy that book when you publish it.

Re: authorial voices. On consideration, I generally don't hear author's voices when I read; I see the imagery, and only sometimes sometimes hear the characters' voices, including the narrator if they are present in the book-world. Accents and such are rarely emphasized, though.

Ginger, albatross: thanks!

Carol: you're very welcome. It was fun.

For fiction I hear voices for the characters. I loathe "books on tape" because they ruin both the sounds I hear in my head, and the rythms of the text/the cadence of the characters.

Who can do Elizabeth Bear's Morningstar, with the blooming presence she gives him? It's as if he doesn't speak from without, bit within.

There's something I like about this library project: Santa Monica library lets public check out walking, talking sources

'On Saturday, the Santa Monica Public Library's Living Library Project will feature "a Mormon, an animal rights activist, a police detective, a fat activist, a feminist, a married Jewish lesbian mom, a little person and an ex-gang member," among others. Members of the public will be able to "check out" the sources for 30-minute conversations.'

'Rachel Foyt, the library's administrative analyst (and self-avowed "book-cart drill team world champion"), said in a release that the event provides an opportunity for people who have special interests, beliefs or experiences to share their personal stories with interested citizens... Foyt said "readers" will be responsible for returning "books" in the "same mental and physical condition as borrowed."'

Aww, so no putting the Mormon in Topher's chair and reprogramming him with the personality of the married Jewish lesbian mom?

You never let us have ANY fun.

Xopher@ 260: I'll trade you the Mormon for the animal rights activist. The police detective can help me, and the feminist/lesbian mom can help you.

Xopher @ 260... reprogramming him with the personality of the married Jewish lesbian mom

That sounds like an episode of Dollhouse I'd want to wtch.

David Harmon, #224: Personally, I'd much rather see Calvin as a highly intelligent child, using his creativity as a defense against life's "slings and arrows", than as the pixilated victim of some "supernatural creature".

Why a "victim?" Maybe Hobbes is just Calvin's friend.

It's worth noting that I come to this strip as someone who also likes Barnaby; also that Watterson himself was deliberately ambiguous as to Hobbes's reality. Among the many reasons he gave for refusing to license the strip was "I don't want the issue of Hobbes's reality settled by a doll manufacturer." (From the 10th anniversary book.)

Wesley, thanks for mentioning the ambiguity. It's what I love about Calvin and Hobbes. Which isn't to knock people who want to decide one way or the other. I just prefer the tension between the possibilities.

After I spend time with my less geographically close friends, their emails sound like them. Mostly, though, I get what I think I sound like, even though I don't actually sound like that (my voice, it is squeaky).

One of the reasons I like the strip Frazz so much is that everyone is both Calvin and Hobbes at some point.

Xopher, thanks for outlining the future of the Susan/Calvin relationship.

(Had to be said.)

Wesley #263: Watterson certainly deserves credit for defending his world against commercialization, and also for refusing to publically "break" Calvin's subjective world with some careless "adultism".

But as I noted above, Hobbes acts like an imaginary friend -- even other children can't see him, he never does anything Calvin couldn't conceivably have done, and he doesn't seem to know anything Calvin doesn't. When Hobbes "ambushes" Calvin at the front door, or they fight in the treehouse, there's never a witness -- Calvin comes in filthy and scratched-up, but then, he's a young boy who's been playing outside in a rural area. In general, like Calvin's "superhero", "alien", and "monster" fantasies, Hobbes yields to the "external reality" of not only the adults, but the (few) other children he interacts with.

In essence, the "ambiguity" is provided by the frame of the strip as much as the changes of viewpoint. Yes, Hobbes is real to Calvin -- but how real is Calvin? While the strip was running, he was an eternal six-year-old. A real child grows up in time; the closing of the strip frees us readers to imagine how Calvin might grow up, as in the picture that started this discussion, and as in Xopher's piece above. We know how often the dreams of childhood are simply lost, how adulthood can kill the best of childhood. The picture moves us, because it shows one way those dreams can live on, passed along to new generations. Xopher's piece shows another side of that, telling how childhood fantasies and play can mature, into adult creativity and enduring relationships.

But Wesley's version does neither of these -- instead of growth and the cycle of life, it offers a dark temptation: that the things of childhood need not die, but can be kept far beyond their natural span. Even Wesley recognizes the disturbing aspect of that... Calvin eventually has to hide his companion away from others, and when Calvin's no longer around to "contain" Hobbes... well, that's when things get ugly. And pretty much has to, because an eternal childhood is fundamentally unnatural. It violates the basic cycles of humanity, and that's always been an invitation to disaster.

Jeffty-ly said.

David:

As a contrary viewpoint, I'd note that there are at least a couple points where Calvin's parents go not just "What was he thinking?" but "How on earth could he have done that to/by himself?"

There's also the matter of the boy who Hobbes ate up, alluded to upstream.

Hey, it's after midnight in the Eastern Time Zone.

Have the Teabaggers overthrown the oppressive socialist government yet?

You just wanted to say "Teabaggers."

I hope, after tomorrow, that tea bagging in the political protest sense is swiftly forgotten, and only reappears thirty years from now in an episode of the hit comedy "That '00s Show," in which an obnoxious neighbor drives around in a Hummer (borrowed from a museum), burns flags, and throws tea bags at people while shrieking "Down with taxes!"

* * *
Funny, foul-mouthed:

We Didn't Start The Flamewar.

Well, I figure that the credibility of the Teabaggers really took one in the chops when Warren Buffett said in an interview that he didn't think rich people were paying enough taxes. Not so's they'd notice, though. I figure they're pretty oblivious to reasoned discourse at this point. It seems like the Teabaggers aren't actual rich people, just people who think they might be rich one day.

At least the punditocracy is have a good ole time with terminal terminology definition dysfunction. heh.

Earl Cooley III @273:

It seems like the Teabaggers aren't actual rich people, just people who think they might be rich one day.

I'd say more like people who stop thinking when they hear "taxes". Or who stop thinking whenever someone in bad standing with them does anything. Or who stop thinking whenever someone they respect tells them that something bad is going on.

Stefan Jones @ 268

Nice one.

"Hefalump, hefalump, hefalump onwards.
 Into the Hundred Acre Wood rode the 300."

And if that doesn't make your head explode, you're unbreakable.

If anyone is still reading the letters to the editor in the sadly shrinking Oregonian newspaper, then my letter tomorrow will have some tea-baggers shaking their heads in disbelief. There was a guest editorial earlier this week with the title I want to pay more taxes. I wrote in to agree.

David Harmon, #267: Hobbes acts like an imaginary friend -- even other children can't see him, he never does anything Calvin couldn't conceivably have done, and he doesn't seem to know anything Calvin doesn't.

This isn't actually true, as Watterson himself has pointed out:

Calvin's dad finds him tied up and the question remains, really, how did he get that way? His dad assumes that Calvin tied himself up somehow, so well that he couldn't get out. Calvin explains that Hobbes did this to him and he tries to place the blame on Hobbes entirely, and it's never resolved in the strip. Again I don't think that's just a cheap way out of the story. I like the tension that that creates, where you've got two versions of reality that do not mix. Something odd has happened and neither makes complete sense, so you're left to make out of it what you want.

(From a Comics Journal interview, quoted on the strip's Wikipedia page.)

The idea that Calvin and the rest of the world exist in two realities that intersect but don't quite match is more interesting to me than pigeonholing Hobbes as a realistic imaginary friend, which seems to make the strip much smaller. (Admittedly, it could have a creepy side--Philip K. Dick would have a field day with the idea.)

Calvin eventually has to hide his companion away from others, and when Calvin's no longer around to "contain" Hobbes... well, that's when things get ugly.

I really intended that scenario to be more funny than creepy. (It does end with a forensic scientist teaming up with a stuffed tiger to fight crime, after all.) I think my mistake was in telling it from the viewpoint of the confused people who can't "see" Hobbes. I imagine Hobbes living with his usual patience and equanimity, while around him people just can't understand how that stuffed tiger is getting around, and getting more and more freaked out by what are merely Hobbes's ordinary day to day activities--eating breakfast, reading the paper, going for long walks...

Clifton Royston #269: I'd note that there are at least a couple points where Calvin's parents go ... "How on earth could he have done that to/by himself?"

I'm pretty sure that most parents of small children say that on occasion.... ;-)

Regarding Tommy Chesnutt: as it happens, I just bought two of the C&H volumes. (Library book sale, whee!) That strip is at the top of page 31 in The Essential Calvin and Hobbes, and the exchange fits what will become the classic pattern:

Mom: Calvin, are you going to take that stuffed tiger to school again?

Calvin: Sure.

Mom: Don't the kids make fun of you?

Calvin: Tommy Chesnutt did once, and now nobody does.

Mom: Why, what happened to Tommy Chesnutt?

Calvin: Hobbes ate him!

Hobbes: Ugh! He needed a bath, too!

Now, there could be any number of reasons why "nobody" teases Calvin about the tiger anymore, or why Calvin would say so to his mother. But you'd think that the death of a fellow student would cause enough fuss that Mom wouldn't have to ask! And about 7 weeks later (top of page 50), we meet the class bully Moe ("Never argue with a six-year-old who shaves").

From the "Touchdown Jesus" particle: Church leaders believe it is the World's Largest Christ (or at least the W.L. half-buried Messiah) and have submitted it for consideration for a Guinness World Record.

I think they missed a couple.

Wesley #278: The idea that Calvin and the rest of the world exist in two realities that intersect but don't quite match...

But the point is, that's not unique to Calvin! It's a basic feature of subjective reality -- most obvious in early childhood, but not really limited to it. Which is exactly what makes the strip universal, a glimpse into the inner life and childhood -- rather than a tragic tale of early psychosis.

Compare to the classic play and movie Harvey, which starts off looking more like the latter, until the pooka reveals itself to an outsider (and the audience). And then the story ends, forestalling any further questions about how supernatural pranksters fit into the larger reality (which includes psychiatrists and mental institutions).

In contrast to such "containment" of the bizarre, is the popular "hidden reality" subgenre of fantasy, where it's the skeptics who are deluded, but the MiBs, Keepers, and so forth who know the Truth. "The Matrix" takes this even further, though Split ("It's the cracked ones who let the light into the world") went there first.

(And I suspect that last paragraph has condemned this post to the moderator's queueueue. ;-) )

And, while a linkier reply is still stuck in moderation, consider the "tragic tale of madness", Garfield minus Garfield.

David Harmon @ 279: But you'd think that the death of a fellow student would cause enough fuss that Mom wouldn't have to ask!

That would depend on how much was seen by the other kids, and how much is just a horrible story going around that most people don't really believe. Sure, everyone's creeped out by the mysterious disappearance of the child, and there are some kids who're telling this totally bizarre story about it, but...

I wrote a filk song last year which alludes to this.

Also, while I'm still reading Essential C&H, pages 55-57 cover Calvin and Susie's first Valentine's Day. The Sunday after sending his "vinegar Valentine", Calvin himself comments, "it's shameless the way we flirt".

Is there a name for using mannequins and fake equipment to make your forces look stronger? It's an ancient military tactic, of course, but it's an ancient rhetorical one, too--claiming greater support than you have. ("Moral Majority" being an egregious example.)

Research on Operation Bodyguard might be a good starting point to source specific terminology for that tactic. Or it might be faster to just ask Terry Karney. heh.

will shetterly @285:

Ah, "the lurkers support me in email" perhaps?

will shetterly @ 285... It's an ancient military tactic

...used in Mel Brooks' Blazing Saddles.

Will, my brain suggested phantom forces, which is alliterative, at least, but I don't think there is a generally accepted term. I can't find one associated with possibly the most famous example: the First United States Army Group set up to convince the Germans that the D-Day invasion was going to take place at Pas de Calais.

Stefan, #272: *giggle* And now you know why I spend so much time here instead.

The REAL "Touchdown Jesus" is the mosaic by Millard Sheets on the Hesburgh Library at the University of Notre Dame, my father's alma mater, my stepfather's alma mater, and my alma mater.

Not only is the Savior giving the touchdown sign, but He is also clearly visible from Notre Dame Stadium beyond the northern end zone.

The campus also features Joseph Turkaly's sculpture Fair-Catch Moses.

Will @285:

I'm looking for my copy of The War Magician--maybe it will have the actual term in there.

Wow, suppose I wanna go see the Touchdown Jesus. Will Amtrak offer me a Super-Savior Fare?

Nope. Just decoy, illusion, and lots of legerdemain.

(Extra) Point to Xopher!

#294 is in re Will Shetterly's request, and not meant to refer to Touchdown Jesus.

Earl @286, good idea! But it's fun seeing what folks are coming up with, so I'll wait a bit. Terry might chip in something later.

Lori @287, that one's ambiguous. Sometimes, the lurkers do support you in email. They're like countries that say, "We prefer your side, but we'd rather stay out of the fight." (The Moral Majority example is different than "lurkers in email", because they make the claim without, you know, the email.)

Serge @288, I first saw it in Beau Geste, I think.

NelC @289, I like the sound of that, if an approved term doesn't come along. And the example's appreciated!

J Austin @294, thanks for checking. And for mentioning another good resource!

I reckon it was only after WW2 that such things as FUSAG acquired a collective name. The idea was around for a long while, such as the defence of Fort Zinderneuf in Beau Geste, but it depended on reconnaisance methods which reached far beyond the front line. For example, the Germans tried to set up fake wireless traffic to mask the sortie of their fleet before the Battle of Jutland.

Yes, there were "quaker cannon" before then, but these artifices were tactical. In WW1 armies tried to hide the build-ups for their attacks, but it was essentially camouflage--short-range and close-up.

By WW2 people had realised who aircraft and wireless intercapts could reveal. So much so that the German radar developments were initially under-used for fear of revealing secrets. And everyone was making some attempts at deception.

Perhaps it was the desperate straits faced by Britain in 1940 which laid the foundations. With sometimes erratic navigation, a decoy was worth trying as part of the defences against night bombing. The Germans tried to do the same against the RAF. By 1943 in North Africa these methods were reaching beyond simply hiding the real, and persuading the enemy to attack the fake, and were trying to present a wholly false image of the where and when of an attack.

And we had such overwhelming control of what the Germans could see. We controlled their spies in England. We were feeding them fake radio traffic, and breaking Enigma meant that we had a good idea of how they were thinking. We could amplify the reactions we wanted.

FUSAG was the creation of the Fox News of military storytelling.

And part of the deception was to hide the deceivers. Units had rather anonymous designations. It also looks as if some of the standard accounts are pretty thorough fakes. Jasper Maskelyne's version of events has been pretty thoroughly demolished, for instance.

Will Shetterly@297:

I don't know that book would be a great resource by itself, but if you google Jasper Maskelyne, you'll get several websites that dissect his personal accounts, have pictures of the "sunshields," etc, and you might be able to track down some better terminology that way.

Dave Bell @298:

Should have hit "refresh" before I posted 299;)

Lee @113: What do other people here think about these [calculator vs. memorization] issues?

Trachtenberg

It appears that the Castle Heterodyne isn't exactly a reliable narrator.

I love crazy castles.

David Harmon @127: pronouncing "www.foo..." as "wəwəwə dot foo..."

I use "dub dub dub." People mostly seem to get it.

RM Koske @ 302... I love crazy castles

...even the part about building a nice doomsday device to wipe out all of Europa?

#304, Serge -

It is a smidge extravagant for a first date, but he is a Wulfenbach, after all. I'm sure he's got great plans for the second date, no worries.

(The advantage of crazy castles is that no matter how much Castle Heterodyne likes the idea, it can't go out and do it without him.)

RM Koske @ 305... If a doomsday device is a Wulfenbach's idea of getting to first base on a date, I dare not think what the second base is like. ("When he whispered sweet little nothings to me, I had no idea he meant Nothingness.")

R.M. Koske @ 305 -- it can't go out and do it without him until after the entire castle is converted into a mass of little replicated clanks.

I think the second star next to Touchdown Jesus was meant to be a separate Particle with its own label, about someone auditioning for something.

The US tends to use the term, "battlefield deception".

The Russians, of course, have a lovely word for it, "maskirovka", which shows up whenever the subject is talked about, and will (I hope) end up becoming the generic term of art.

Terry Karney @ 309:

Do you know if that word is related to masquerade? It looks like it. If so, that's a charming term for it.

re, Susan Boyle Particle: wow.

Terry, maskirovka gets 26,800 hits, so I'm going to make sure it gets one more. I owe you now! (Okay, I prob'ly owed you before, but I definitely owe you now.)

J. Austin @300, no worries. I like knowing that someone writing about spoofing was either spoofing or spoofed.

Dave Bell @298, *many* thanks. "Quaker cannon" is especially nice; I suspect I'll find a use for it, too.

I'm sorry, I usually read all the comments before responding but this is really upsetting me (which is not to imply at all that you *should* not upset me): I'm not a Plato fan (like--at all) but I think he should be given the benefit of doubt on the question of whether his "teachings" were written down.

He *knew* that the "writing" quotes were problematic; in an era of something like 5-10% literacy how could you envision a future where people who couldn't read were an anomaly?

[As for all the Aristotle-avengers, well, I see your point, but he's equally, fatally flawed)--and I would argue in a more fundamental way. And I AM an Aristotle fan.]

Xopher, to return to the chocolate-packing problem of the last open thread, I've got another simple solution for you: convoluted packing foam, the stuff that looks kind of like egg cartons. Get two pieces that nest together, and use scissors to snip each "peak" into a dip. That would give you a regular grid of voids separated by foam. You'd just need to make sure that the convolutions in the foam are on a scale appropriate for your chocolates.

Dido @313, agreed. That's sort of what I meant (but did not say clearly at all) @10: Plato doesn't say it. He tells a story in which Thamus, King of All Egypt, says it.

will shetterly @ 264: "Wesley, thanks for mentioning the ambiguity. It's what I love about Calvin and Hobbes. Which isn't to knock people who want to decide one way or the other. I just prefer the tension between the possibilities."

You know, in the past I generally preferred the ambiguity too--in all kinds of stories, not just Calvin and Hobbes. Lately though, I've found it kind of irritating. Instead of actually deciding whether something is true in this universe or not--especially regarding the existence of God--it's become de rigeur to be cleverly non-committal on the subject. More and more it strikes me as "ooh, I'm so terribly hip I can't see over my pelvis I don't even NEED to make truth claims within my created universe! How do you like them po-mo apples?" Now, there are legitimate artistic reasons to be coy about existential truth in the story's universe, but so often these days it just feels lazy.

I noticed this when I watched the pilot of Kings, which is fairly straightforward about God: yes, there is an active God, and he's the fickle, incomprehensible God of the Old Testament. No ambiguity. There He is, giving out crowns of butterflies, protecting His chosen, messing with His enemies. It was just so refreshing to see someone (anyone!) take a stand that I started wondering what the norm was that I was comparing it to.

dido #313: I wouldn't call myself an "Aristotle-avenger", I just prefer his basic approach(*). What are you considering as his "fatal flaw"? (There's too many possibilities for me to guess! ;-) )

*: And while it's hardly fair to judge either of them against modern science, the Platonic "world of Ideals" has been comprehensively smote by the trifecta of Turing, Goedel, and whoever figured out that computation is subject to thermodynamics.

heresiarch @316, also agreed that ambiguity can become tiresome. Sometimes fiction should say: "This is a simple proposition. Now, let's explore it." For all that I love Calvin and Hobbes' ambiguity, I also love Jack Staff's "There are superheroes and vampires and whatever I want to put in here, so sit back and enjoy."

Bill Higgins - Beam Jockey @ #291: I don't think I knew you were a Domer. I am a Bender & a fac brat, so I grew up in the shadow of Touchdown Jesus.

Three of my brothers graduated from ND in the 80s...what was your year? (I went to IU Bloomington, myself).

John@222: Cebbs jbhyq pregnvayl or svaqnoyr unq gur snzvyl abg gnxra pbhagrenpgvba (qvfcbfvat bs gur vapevzvangvat cra); ohg lbhe rkcynangvba znxrf frafr, ng yrnfg va qba'g-fpner-gur-ubefrf grezf. Ba shegure gubhtug, V'z jbaqrevat jurgure gung gur fgngrzrag gung fbzrobql unq gb gryy gur onax gung Fvzba unq orra gur cebcre urve nsgre nyy jnf n cbyvgr jnl bs fnlvat gur onax unq gb xabj gung Oeng jnfa'g Cngevpx, va beqre gb trg gur snve erfhyg bs Aryy vaurevgvat; nf lbh fnl, jvgu Fvzba qrnq vg qbrfa'g znggre gung ur unq qvfdhnyvsvrq uvzfrys.

Dave: interesting. It looks like there would have been all sorts of discussion about whether planning proves understanding.

Earl & NelC: Alfred Bester read \exactly/ like he wrote -- so much so that a few weeks after first hearing him I had to put one of his stories down very quickly to avoid being too jangled for an audition.

Will@285: "Potemkin Army" is an obvious name, but I've never heard it used.

David@311: I got the Susan Boyle link through one of my chorus's emails. "wow" is just the start; I'm wondering how she got so much better a technique than any pop star or Broadway singer I've heard in a long time -- no imitations, no gimmicks, just a great performance. That's much harder than writing well without an editor because your voice sounds radically different to you than it does to other people.

heresiarch #316, will shetterly #318:

Whereas I consider that apparent ambiguity is often just a distracting surface effect, obscuring a complex but definite reality.

CHip #320: According to the fan sites, she had sung in church choir and karaoke. (I suspect the first was more important to her style. let alone her vocal power.)

Watching the video, I was vastly amused by the judges' reactions: they start off slouched, not quite snickering with the audience, but clearly "going through the routine". Then she starts to Sing, and the judges just jawdrop -- in at least one case, literally! Within seconds they're all sitting up and leaning forward....

David Harmon @ 321: Wavicles?

To some observers, by some detection methods, Hobbes has toy-like behaviour. In other circumstances, he has tiger-like behaviour. But the reality is more complex and has aspects of both. Eventually, yarn theory may give us an explanation.

Joel #323: To one observer, Hobbes has tiger-like behavior -- it happens to be our usual viewpoint character. And I really don't want to continue this argument, as for me, the real point of the strip was stranded back in the early 200's of this thread.

David Harmon @ 324: Sorry, I thought I was agreeing with you about Hobbes' nature. (One observer that we know about, obviously in the minority, but we can't know if he's unique.)

Joel @#325: Sorry, I thought I was agreeing with you...

It's OK, but you're not actually agreeing with me. I was the one arguing that we can infer the reality of the strip by examining its characteristics. It was Wesley et al. who were arguing from inconsistency to indeterminacy.

<pedantic> BTW, you've confused at least two of the three Big Weirdnesses of modern physics: Wave/particle dualism says that particles can behave like waves (or vice versa) depending on how they're constrained (or not) by "observation" (the definition of which has gotten distinctly esoteric). Relativity says that (specifically) the observed sequence or simultaneity of events can differ among observers, but does so in a consistent manner. The third Big Weirdness is quantum indeterminacy, which limits the information that can be extracted from a given observation, and also reveals some (very) non-intuitive phenomena at the subatomic scale. </pedantic>

heresiarch @ 316:

I think it's a matter of intent and execution. The reality or not of Hobbes was taken just seriously enough to be both interesting and funny. In other stories there is ambiguity that's still interesting. In yet other stories, it's a matter of being 'clever' about it, and that's when it becomes annoying.

CHip @ 320:

If Bester read like he wrote, I have to wonder how he would have read the telepaths' conversations and word-games in The Demolished Man.

David Harmon @ 322:

I have to say I was stunned by her performance as well. I gather she's been signed to a label, so we'll see what comes of it.

re: Tommy Chesnutt being eaten by Hobbes

It doesn't have to be any more complicated than that after an altercation (and we have only Calvin's perception that it was overt bullying), Tommy didn't come back to school.

It could have been sudden illness, an accident, or a move that had been planned for some time but that hadn't trickled down to the kids at the school.

If Tommy had known his family was leaving, there might have been some resentment and acting out at school. If he said or did something mean, particularly referencing Hobbes, and then "vanished", of course Calvin would think Hobbes had taken care the problem.

"had taken care of the problem."

KeithS @#327: I have to say I was stunned by her performance as well.

Indeed, as was I (and I promptly tossed the link at my Mom). If the judges had been more respectful to begin with, their reactions wouldn't have been so funny!

I remember being very surprised the first time I saw downtown LA, because while the city itself is huge the traditional "big buildings with corner offices" part is quite small--not as small as Pittsburgh's downtown, but not a whole lot larger either. This is far from obvious from the way it usually shows up in movies and such.

Therefore it seems to me that someone familiar with downtown LA ought to be able to figure out which other buildings DeWitt's corner office looks out on, and thus where the Dollhouse is located. This assumes that they're using a real office and not a set with a backdrop outside its "window"--but even then, it's probably a shot taken from a real location.

I would find this interesting to know, but I don't remember even vaugely enough about downtown Los Angeles to attempt it...

David Harmon @ 330:

You have to admit, slightly dotty older lady from the country is a pretty good secret identity.

Random comment/thought:

When a party starts losing voters, it's natural for it to lose the less fervent, less extreme voters first. This seems to be happening to the Republicans right now--with more voters who've either gone over to the Democrats or just lost faith in the Republicans, they seem to be more and more dominated by their extremes. This looks like a feedback loop, because as the extremes take more power, more moderates will be pushed away.

ISTM that there are a great many ways this could go very badly for the country. The modern GOP is a party in which Rush Limbaugh seems like a serious leader, and Newt Gingrich is the voice of moderate reason. Our electoral system almost guarantees that they will get power again sooner or later, and the economic crisis could turn in such a way that they ended up in power very soon. It takes little imagination to see how badly that could end up.

KeithS @332 You have to admit, slightly dotty older lady from the country is a pretty good secret identity.

Mrs. Pollifax lives!

David Harmon @320, a "a complex but definite reality" may be more complex than can be rendered by an ostensibly objective reality. Look at any event that has partisans. People like to say "the truth is in the middle," but it's not necessarily, and even if it is, it may be impossible to find out exactly where it is. Frex, something happens, and someone has a heart attack. Cause and effect? Coincidence? The wrath of God? For different POV characters, each of those can be true. (Recommended novel illustrating this, and which might be fantasy: An Instance of the Fingerpost by Iain Pears.)

Carol Kimball @328, re: Tommy Chesnutt being eaten by Hobbes:

Tommy Chesnutt may have been one of Calvin's imaginary friends.

Calvin's folks might have checked and found that Tommy Chesnutt was perfectly fine.

Hobbes may have eaten Tommy Chesnutt's soul and left his mind and body to continue a purposeless existence.

Random bit, seen in the New Scientist:

If bright light makes you sneeze, a neurogeneticist at UC-SF wants to hear from you.

KeithS #332 You have to admit, slightly dotty older lady from the country is a pretty good secret identity.

Not for a singer it isn't! Heck, I don't even hang out with "music crowds", and I've still personally met at least one woman who looked pretty much like a troll -- but had a glorious singing voice. (She was also quite a sweet person, but that's equally irrelevant to being a good singer!)

And frankly, I think judges sneering at their audition contestants is just nasty to begin with, if not unprofessional.

Will #335: Dude, take your portable goalposts and go home -- I want out of this argument! ;-)

Pendrift @ 336:

Bright light doesn't make everyone sneeze?

David Harmon @ 337:

Agreed.

Carol 328: Or Calvin just beat the hell out of Tommy and imagined/reported it as Hobbes eating him. People would have stopped teasing Calvin about Hobbes at that point.

I have a friend who was fat in junior high, and a guy who was mean to him about it got pushed down the stairs. (No, I don't think that was appropriate, but it was certainly effective.) "OK, this kid's a psycho. DNFW" would explain Calvin's general lack of friends, as well, and why no one helps him with Moe later.

Carrie S. 331: Interesting points. The Dollhouse is deep underground, yet Dewitt's office IIRC is only just above the lab level, if that. I suspect her office windows are simulations.

David 337: Hear hear. I don't watch such shows, because I watched a little bit of one once and was very uncomfortable with the feelings I had toward Simon Cowell (i.e. I wanted to stab him to death with a dull and rusty spoon). But you know, because commercial singers in this video age are all pretty, people expect funny-looking people not to be able to sing.

KeithS 339: It doesn't make me sneeze. Walking along last summer roughly parallel with another guy (I didn't know him), we both passed from the shadow of a building into the bright sunlight; he immediately began sneezing uncontrollably; I did not.

Xopher @ 340... I was forced to watch American Idol when I was staying at my sister-in-law. Well, I wasn't really forced, but it'd have seemed a tad rude for me to walk out of something my host was enjoying. Personally, I don't get the attraction of shows like that, or like the late unlamented "You Are the Weakest Link". They remind me too much of high-school - which wouldn't make a pleasant musical.

#339, KeithS -

I think I was in my twenties before I'd even heard of it as a phenomenon, so I don't believe it happens to anyone in my family.

It's so weird what turns out to be genetic, eh?

Xopher @#340: I don't know where you got that impression; they have to use an elevator to get to her office and as far as I can tell there's been no particular indication of how long that elevator ride is. Of course I could be forgetting.

Regarding earlier conversation on the morality of the Dollhouse, I get the distinct impression that Abirzore'f obql pnzr sebz n ibyhagrre--fur jnagrq gb trg njnl sebz gur cnva bs ure qnhtugre'f qrngu. Vg frrzf gb zr abg bhgfvqr gur ernyz bs cbffvovyvgl gung (zbqhyb riragf va gur frevrf) fur'yy jnag gb xrrc orvat Zryyvr jura ure vavgvny pbagenpg vf hc, fvapr yvsr nf n Qbyy vf abg npghnyyl urycvat ure qrny jvgu gung cnva.

V frafr n avsgl yvggyr "juvpu crefbanyvgl jvaf" pbasyvpg va gur shgher, nffhzvat Sbk'f rkrpf pna or vzcevagrq jvgu rabhtu frafr gb xrrc n fubj gung pna znxr gurz n ybg bs zbarl.

Regarding the new sidelight of Teresa's about the epidemic of suicides in India: Wow, that comment thread went septic immediately. The story itself is horrifying, but the response of the readership is more so.

David Harmon @337, I'm now imagining a comparison of Janis Joplin and Susan Boyle.

@338, portable goalposts should be in any Calvin and Hobbes discussion. Calvinball rules! (Because they change!)

David, #330 (et al): What I want to see is what she looks like once she's been given access to the same kinds of professional primping assistance available to... oh, people like the judges. Something as simple as a more flattering hairstyle and taming the eyebrows would bring her appearance more into line with what people "expect" a good singer to look like.

I'd also like to note that part of the reaction is due to what I call the "Jim Nabors effect" -- her singing voice is a LOT better than her speaking voice, which adds considerably to the surprise. Listening to her before she starts, I would have expected her to sing like my mother, which is not a compliment.

Serge, #341: You've just nailed the reason I don't like shows like that. They are ALL based on humiliation humor, although they pretend not to be. The prizes are pure justification and plausible deniability.

Andrew, #344: It had gotten better by the time I looked; there were a bunch of people dogpiling that first idiot (and a few more like him). Still ugly, but at least not uniformly toxic.

Fluoroquestion-- is there either an elegant (or sharp) English phrase for "I told you so," or a non-English version? Today in response to a situation I very much want to imply 'I told you so,' I just don't want to say "I told you so."

For example, "Lucy directly told you she'd pull the football away , and you kicked anyways. You were played."

Carrie 343: You're right about her office. I just misremembered.

Joel Polowin @ 323

A quite coherent explanation.

Another take on Calvin growing up (mildly NSFW):

Teenage Calvin & Suzy

Xopher@340: But you know, because commercial singers in this video age are all pretty, people expect funny-looking people not to be able to sing.

Classical music and opera used to be the exception, but (speaking from an admittedly limited exposure to the genre) I get the impression that good looks are almost as important as a fabulous voice nowadays.

KeithS et al re: photic sneezing, I honestly had no idea it was that common. Within an hour of posting that link on Facebook, three of my friends told me it happened to them.
Trust scientists to call it an Autosomal-dominant Compelling Helio-Ophthalmic Outburst. Nerds do have more fun - I don't see myself getting to name anything after Gary Larson ever, for instance.

Ok -- the Department of Justice has released four of the torture memos from the Bush Administration. I've tried reading them, and I can't get past the second paragraph of the first memo without wanting to run for the bathroom.

I'm ashamed to be an American, to know that our government has done this in my name, on my behalf...

The last talent competition I watched, and I think in some ways it is on the margins, was the BBC versiom of "Strictly Come Dancing", last year. And that's different because the people competing, while they're professional performers of one sort or another, are learning dancing as the series progresses.

Have a look at the official BBC page. The winning Show Dance in the final had the judges awestruck.

Apart from the judging panel not including Simon Cowell, and not deciding the No. 1 record in the hit parade for Christmas, as a whole the show gives us a feeling that we could maybe match that. Since I was, at the time, still in hospital after my road accident, I maybe was worrying I couldn't even do better than John Sergeant.

An aquaintance of mine did tell me that the dancing in Cats wasn't all that difficult. I certainly can't imagine a cat having to dance backwards and in heels.

Lori Coulson @353: I found a link on the NYT site after reading your comment and downloaded the memos. I could feel my stomach churning after the first paragraph describing the techniques, and can't bring myself to read the rest just yet. Scrolling down very rapidly already makes me queasy.

On a lighter note, I'm watching "The Narnia Code", discussing a hitherto undiscovered layer of meaning to the series.

The Guardian articles says:

It has long been accepted that the classic children's series features Christian symbolism, but scholars have laboured for years to discover a third level of meaning, trying unsuccessfully to fit the themes of the seven sacraments, the seven deadly sins, and the seven books of Spenser's Faerie Queene to the novels.

Three guesses as to what the third level is.

Dave Bell #354: They seem to be having trouble -- I keep getting "This content doesn't seem to be working. Try again later", even after enabling scripts.

Open-threaded random fun. To determine your NPR name, take the first letter of your middle name, and insert it at random into your first name. Your last name is the name of the smallest town you've been to.

For NPR news from Texas, this is Streven Schulenburg.

Bother. Working for me, but the BBC could be blocking access from outside the UK

Try Youtube Seems to need less bandwidth, and includes the judge's comments.

Lori Coulson @ 353... You shouldn't be ashamed. We did throw the bums out, with democracy and without the pitchforks.

I find myself in need of fonts, specifically medieval fonts but also all types of decorative fonts and wingdings. Does anybody know of a safe site that offers font shareware? I use OpenOffice on an Itty Bitty Machines clone running Microgunk Vista.

A few friends of mine got very into America's Next Best Dance Crew, or something with a similar title, because it was different. It was very performance-oriented, by the time I saw an episode absolutely everyone was good-- and I mean good-- and they were generally supportive of each other, not only within each dance group but among as well. While the people who had seen the entire arc could point out how tired everyone was and where they'd borrowed choreography, I was just stunned at the performances.

Early Idol, or What Not To Wear*, are awful. I don't like that kind of meanness.

*A friend once watched about an hour and a half of this show before taking me shopping. This was a bad idea. I already disliked shopping, especially shopping with intent to make me over in some way, and I couldn't imagine spending the kind of money they do on the show just to look like everyone else with a fresh scoop of self-loathing on top. I cannot make that show make sense.

I would love to go on What Not to Wear and get into it with the hosts over the utter ridiculousness of paying $250 for a pair of dry-clean-only jeans that I plan to go hiking in. Or wearing pointy-toed shoes when there is any other option. I doubt that I could find the clothes I need in the shopping districts where they send their victims.

OTOH, they do have some successes, like the young artist who needed to look pulled together and professional without showing any skin (and her counterpart the Realtor who was still dressing like a college kid and showing way too much skin) or the up-and-coming boxer who needed to look successful to attract backers without a clue how to go about it.

Just a few minutes ago, I have discovered what I believe may be a law of the universe. Testing it could prove difficult and dangerous, so I'm going to put it to the Fluorosphere as a hypothesis, for you to compare to your own experience.

Hypothesis: If a Hummer appears in motion in an urban environment, the number of flaming assholes inside the car cannot be less than one.

In my experience Hummer drivers are unable to comprehend that stopping or even slowing down at intersections is required, even when (say) there's an old bald guy dragging himself across the street on a cane.

(Yes, I just almost got run over by one of these fucktards tonight. He had plenty of time to slow down, but of course the mass of the Hummer means that for him to slow down (as opposed to making me speed up, which fucking hurt, dammit) and then accelerate the monstrosity back to R17 would probably cost the asshole twenty bucks in gas over just tearing along and assuming I'd run, which of course I can't.)

I hope that guy wraps his fucking Hummer around a lightpole before he kills someone who doesn't deserve to die. Fuck Hummers and the assholes who drive them in cities!

</rant>
___
*I suppose it's remotely possible that a woman might want a Hummer, but if so I bet she doesn't drive it in Hoboken. The Alaskan Tundra, there's a reasonable place, if you accept that there's any reasonable civilian use for a Hummer, an idea of which I'm far from convinced.

Xopher @ 364:

When I would drive past a Hummer dealership on a regular basis, I always wanted to hang up a sign that said something like, "Average human male pns length is 5–6 inches. You don't have to overcompensate for something that's not inadequate." Unfortunately, this would not be a catchy slogan, and I'd probably get in trouble with the dealership.

I don't think I've ever seen a dirty Hummer. Take that for what it's worth.

Certain words pre-disemvoweled because I might have inadvertantly performed a spambot-summoning on another thread.

Apropos of absolutely nothing, but:

Is it just me, or is Craigslist getting particularly hideous wrt to their job ads lately? The signal-to-noise (well, really, job-to-scam) ratio there these days seems ridiculous.

Summer Storms @ #366, no, it's not just you. Once you bypass the "work from home" scams there doesn't seem to be much left. I may have to resort to my local newspapers to see if they actually still have any listings.

One of our papers just went from afternoon to morning, and to tabloid-size from "normal." It's driving me crazy; for one thing, no longer are the comics all on one page. They're scattered throughout the paper.

I am a photo-responsive sneezer. I am also a violent sneezer. Maia made me warn her if we were in the car (which we got down to my waving a finger in the air, toward the windshield). She also managed to short circuit it sometimes, by saying, "bless you" before I could sneeze. This was sort of frustrating to me, because that left me with the urge to sneeze, and no sneeze handy.

Summer Storms: I've had very little luck with it, and that in a smaller market. I've seen some really hideous things.

The best was the one which sent me a reply (rare enough) explaining they couldn't accept resumes as attachements, because they'd been hosed with a virus.

The email addy let me look them up. Scummy.

The ad I found via google was for a "contract" job (on an outsourcing site), asking for bids (job to pay 20-100USD), to scam Craiglist.

One had to be able to make multiple postings (with proxies, IP spoofing, etc.) not be flagged, or ghosted, and have all this ready to go.

It's a hard time out here in the job hunting market.

Lori at #353, me too. I get simultaneously enraged and sick. The fact which makes me maddest and sickest is that the army/CIA/US government employed doctors to oversee these monstrous acts, and they did. How is this not a violation of their oath and of every moral standard they were ever taught? How does it differ from the horrors of experimentation the world publicly rejected after WWII?

I am glad that Obama published the documents. I am ashamed, that my government did these things. I have mixed feelings about his statement that individuals who did these things "in good faith," believing that it was legal, are off the hook. I can understand why he thinks it's necessary -- but someone needs to be held accountable. Bybee? Yoo? George Bush? Someone?

Terry @ 369: Eeew. Just eeew.

One ad I found even in the Plain Dealer(!) here was for someone to write ad copy for a foreign-dating scam site, of the "meet hot singles from [insert foreign country here]" variety. Said individual to also deposit checks for same. I'm frankly surprised that the paper actually took the ad.

Lizzy, 370: and I'm surprised that Obama is apparently unaware that the Nuremberg Defense doesn't fly.

Jenny @ 361
www.fontage.com
If it's freeware, you can download it. If there's a shareware site for it, it links. (Also for-pay sites, because we really don't want Bitstream and people in Redmond after us.) You really don't want to know how many fonts there are on this planet ....

KeithS 365: I don't think I've ever seen a dirty Hummer.

You will, if you're with me when I find that Hummer parked and if there's a pile of dogshit nearby.

KeithS@327: I was hoping to find out more, but he couldn't make his guest slot at Worldcon and died shortly afterwards; the ]actors[ who attempted to do "They Don't Make Life Like They Used To" and especially "The Pi Man" were a very weak substitute.

Pendrift@352: My impression is that classical (I'm not much familiar with opera) still does not depend on looks -- for one thing, it's mostly live in large halls (where looks aren't much visible) or recorded. But I'm not exactly an authority either -- I sing behind local professionals a few times a year

Lizzy@370: Yoo is currently a professor at the former California "Christian" College (now Chapman) in Orange County, so he's unlikely to face the expulsion for moral turpitude that he richly deserves.

Summer: I was also thinking of Nuremberg -- but IIRC that defense was denied mostly for high-level people. Mind you, I would hope nobody else would be willing to hire them; but I'm not totally cheesed off at Obama's decision. The doctors, on the other hand, should lose their licenses as violators of the Hippocratic Oath.

CHip: I didn't know that Yoo was at Chapman (I thought he was still Berkeley's disgrace) I may have to tell some of my friends (who are alums).

The "Christian" in the name has been gone a long time (it was Chapman College in 1991, and became a Chapman University in 1992/93).

It was a tolerably liberal campus (I have an ex, now an opera singer, to twine subthreads, who went there). I suspect some alumni might be convinced to stop donating, so long as he is teaching/has a position there.

Jenny Islander @ 361:

You might find something at 1001fonts.com. They're all free as far as I'm aware.

Xopher: re female Hummer Drivers.

My wife was on a message board, and one of the posters there was a hummer driver. This was a couple of years ago, when the subprime mortgage mess was only starting to look like a looming failure.

She was a financial train wreck. Everything was bought on credit, some on cards, some on refis. She wound up with two houses, because she bought a foreclosure with the intent to refinance later. One of the little incidents I remember was her replacing the windshield because she threw her cell phone at it.

So, no more sense than the male hummer drivers.

Xopher:

Around here, the hummers are often driven by aggressive a--hole men, but the cellphone-chattering soccer moms in minivans are at least as much of a danger. They won't *mean* to kill you, but even after the bump and screaming, they'll simply complain to their friend over the phone about all the noise on this road, driving merrily on.

CHip, Lizzy L, Lori, Summer:
Doctors assisting at torture — shudder.
Oh, wait — silly me — they weren't helping, they were just monitoring the health of the prisoners, but of course that made it more palatable(!) for the horrors to continue. I so much want them to at least lose their licenses.

An important consumer advisory for men who overcompensate (since we were talking about behemoth SUVs), do not buy the magic pills associated with the claim that "Your manhood will fly like a white dove - independent and free". Over the counter pharmaceutical offers like that can be poetically compelling, but you really do not want that to happen to you, especially if you have a window open.

In case you're curious, this is not a matter of personal experience, just a general, common sense warning.

Using the rel="nofollow" tag for this:

The Talent Killers: How literary agents are destroying literature, and what publishers can do to stop them

Among agents many sins: selling books, not writing query letters for wannabe writers, and having submission guidelines on their web pages.

Sincerely,
A "... particulary brilliant (or particularly sleazy) first-time novelist."

Jenny, #363: Heh. Some 30 years ago I went to one of the early versions of the Women's Expo shows, and sat thru a presentation about how to dress for success in the office. The (male) speaker emphasized the need for clothing that was professional and practical rather than sexy. In the question-and-answer session at the end, I stuck up my hand and asked why NONE of the models had been wearing shoes that were either professional or practical? And what good did it do a career woman to wear shoes that were guaranteed to damage her feet and legs over the long term, as well as making it hard for her to keep up with her male colleagues?

He didn't have a good answer. And this is one standard of "professional" dress for women that doesn't seem to have changed much, from what my female lawyer friends tell me.

KeithS, #365: Reminds me of a comment I posted in my LJ a few years ago:
d00d. If you think that putting Jimmy Buffett stickers on your shiny army-green Hummer does anything to lessen the Jerkwad Factor of driving a Hummer in the first place, think again. There is NOTHING you can put on your Hummer that will make you look hip, or cool, or like anything but a shallow vain asshole with a lot of money and a really tiny pns. (also pre-disemvowelled)

Xopher -- so glad you're not hurt. And dammit, why isn't there ever a cop around when they do that?

Harry Connolly @382, all comment links on ML are set to nofollow by default; ML has traditionally been very stingy with the blessings of its considerable strategic reserve of googlejuice.

Albatross @333

I agree completely.

I think I am most frightened by the fact that the same "liberal media" that called the previous president a hero for fighting the war on terror with terror is declaring the Republicans to be in disarray.

The impression that a party, whose congressional delegations are still voting as a block -- almost without exception -- constitute a party that has been de-fanged is terrifying while Rush Limbaugh and Newt Gingrich spread their hatred and tea parties become occasions for vicious slander.

But I worry most about the willingness of true progressives to cede the broader cause by allowing a president, who has only been in office a short time, to be blamed for not reversing eight years of fascism overnight -- especially when he must work so hard to keep the Democratic Party together to fight against the Republican juggernaut.

He has released details that name names higher in the power structure that should arm his supporters with the ammunition to lobby for accountability -- something he cannot do directly without moving "off message." That is important, considering the tightrope we must all walk now to rebuild our nation's moral and fiscal strength.

On a generally lighter note, I'm so glad that Susan Boyle has received her own just deserts! I keep watching the Youtube clip and crying (even when I watch with my eyes closed, her voice overwhelms my emotions).

One of my favorite Bush-era quotes from Doonesbury is "what's the point of being right all the time if you're always off message"?

Earl Cooley @386

With respect, I didn't mean to imply that Obama should step outside the bounds of "being right" for the sake of staying "on message." I hope, as a member of the Democratic Party, that my fundamental belief that government springs "from the people" is shared by others -- and that "we, the people" will push our representatives to do what is right, rather than expecting the social contract to work the other way around.

This is a beta announcement of

Making Lumiere, the Party: Friday August 7, 2009, Montreal-- exactly 16 weeks from now-- and

Making Lumiere, the LJ Community, devoted to all things Making Making Lumiere.

MLtCommunity has just opened*. Much more will be announced over the next units of time.

MLtP will be a guest-list party: the room [much larger than last year's room] is not on the party floor. We'll be celebrating all 8 food groups and the 5 basic tastes including the newest flavor "not sour" via a miracle-fruit tasting party.

=======
* as I neither sprǽc nor parler nor have previous experience with LJ Communities, all pointers, sharp or not, appreciated.

I'm also a photic sneezer. I'm pleased to see someone doing research about it. My experience is that angle matters, and so does amount of glare.

Photic sneezing trivia question: What character in a popular fantasy series is a photic sneezer? (The answer is especially interesting in that the character is not human.)

Xopher@340: Have you seen last Friday's episode, "A Spy in the House of Love"?

In it, n jvaqbj va qr Jvgg'f bssvpr vf oebxra. Jr frr bhg bs vg gb gur fgerrg orybj. Gur jvaqbj vf beqvanel tynff, naq gur bssvpr vf uvtu hc.

Kathryn: Joined and friended.

Serge@185:
Both "cent" and "centime" are allowed, due to homonymy: "neuf cents" can mean ".09 Euros" or "900 Euros".
The distinction is important when writing checks!

Scammy job offers: Neddie Jingo found that Sometimes they come after you. He was going to punk them, but didn't have the heart.

Kathryn from Sunnyvale @ 388... We'll be celebrating all 8 food groups

It's made with people!
The party, I mean.

Oops! I screwed up the 'bold' html ar #394. Can somebody fix it?

#354 - Dave Bell -

The equivalent show* in the US is called "Dancing with the Stars" and I enjoyed the first season immensely.** I recall watching Evander Holyfield (a boxer) on his last episode early in season one, and while he didn't do well technically, he was *beaming*. I was so happy to see him enjoying the process and felt like he was likely a bigger winner than many of those who stayed on longer.

*I think, anyway.

**My tv watching dropped and I haven't seen any of the more recent seasons. I can't say if the show has changed since or not.

KévinT @ 692... That must make for interesting situations when it's time to pay l'addition.

re Craig's List job ads: My library (meaning I) has put up a page of job-search links, including the local Craig's List pages. It's a comprehensive, not selective, list of links. But, given the ratio of scammy-to-real that is being cited here, should I take Craig's List back off the page? (My boss had previously expressed some concern, but without either of us knowing how bad it really was.)

I'm reading Freerange Kids by Lenore Skenazy, which just came out, and I note one Abi Sutherland who lives in the Netherlands is quoted on page 85.

362, 363: I like What Not to Wear, specifically because it's not humiliation-based. And they really do work with the people on the show to find things that fit their style - either toning it down or spicing it up as necessary, but they don't just put everyone in a one-size-fits-all "THIS IS FASHION" look. Sure, they spend a ridiculous amount, but it's a TV show - that's its job. You can (I try to) take the ideas they promote and apply them to reasonably-priced clothes, too.

Xopher @ 364 - the two Hummer drivers I see around here regularly are both women. Got to keep the kiddos safe, after all - driving on those mean suburban streets, you never know when you'll have to jump a curb & start driving through people's lawns.

I don't know about Craigslist in general, but for things dealing with writing or publishing, if it's on Craigslist it's either a scam or hopeless.

As some of you may recall, back on the 4th December I had a nasty road accident. Nasty in what the potential effects could have been, as thewy included three fractured vertabrae. But the designed safety features worked, and saved me from a lot of other bad things.

Yesterday, Thursday, the last of the plaster came off, and I was consigned to the physiotherapy department. Ankles need particular care, after all.

Well, some of you know the superficial problems, such as the itching of the dry skin newly exposed. But I'm feeling pretty good about how I'm getting around. I've be warned to be very careful about driving (manual transmission--you need the left ankle for the clutch), though we've lined up a low milage Honda Civic, with a fittings package that would make me a boy racer if I had a full head of hair.

I'm going to the fracture clinic in another six weeks, and at the moment it feels like that might be the end of things. Or the physiotherapy might run for longer.

Anyway, I consider all this to be Good News, and shall permit you to erupt in paroxysms of exuberant joy, or not.

Xopher #364:

So far as I'm aware, no one in town here owns a Hummer. I do occasionally see them in wintertime, driven by tourists. Just a hint to them: Four-wheel-drive doesn't brake any better than two-wheel-drive, and ice is no one's friend.

Dave Bell @ 402... Hourra!

I used to drive an ex-Army Land Rover. I've driven it off-rad, not just in muddy fields but in some rather rough conditions.

About the only way it could have been more mil-spec was if it had 24v/FFR electrics and a machine-gun mount.

Who knows how long the classic, box-ey, Land Rover design will continue to be produced? But you can still buy civilian models which are the equivalent of what the Army uses. Heck, many of the Land Rovers the Army uses are civilian models.

And the Land Rover, right from the start, had the Meccano nature.

Perhaps the only problem, from the POV of a modern soldier, is the sneaking suspicion that you might need a Whitworth spanner.

The Hummer, or at least the ones truly based on the military vehicle, seems designed to carry four people who are not on speaking terms. My Land Rover could seat seven. My Land Rover could be carried inside a helicopter.

Well, the Land Rover is firmly of the Jeep generation, only better. After WW2, people were working out how to do things better.

If you want a better Hummer, instead of a better Jeep, maybe the Land Rover is still the answer.

Dave Bell #402:

I personally love it when the designed safety features work as intended. Good job to them, to you, and to all who've been involved in your care in the interim.

(For those coming in late, Dave talked about his collision in Open Threads 117 and 118.)

Dave Bell @ 402

Congratulations.

I'm sure you don't need me to tell you, but do your physiotherapy as instructed - sure helped my shoulder recovering after dislocation. The physiotherapist informed me that most people try to skimp - if told to do the exercises four times a day, they do them maybe twice a day - then they wonder why return to function isn't coming along as fast as they would like.

Kathryn @399:

Yes, we chatted by email about international differences in child-rearing.

What did she quote, in the end?

332&334: Don't forget the slightly dotty older lady played by Dame May Whitty in Hitchcock's The Lady Vanishes, who turns out to have been abg zreryl na vapbairavrag jvgarff gb fbzrguvat fur fubhyqa'g unir frra, ohg n fcl va cbffrffvba bs n ivgny frperg.

#402, Dave Bell -

Has it really been that long? Time flies when it is someone else wearing the cast, apparently.

I'm glad to hear about your progress - congratulations on the loss of that extra plaster!

Cat Meadors at 400, I think some of my antipathy toward the show is from too many well-meaning friends trying to make me over-- in sixth grade, two girls had a birthday party, boy-girl, and told the boys to come at seven and the girls at six so everyone could make me over. It didn't take. And the first season had the woman and a mean-tongued man with long hair. He was a lot less forgiving, and she seemed to use him as a benchmark for her own meanness.

Ok, this morning I pulled myself together and called my Senators and Congresswoman, and asked that there be an investigation of those who authorized the use of torture, and prosecution of them and of those who wrote the memos. (I'm looking at you, Yoo, Addington, Cheney...)

David 390: Yes, you're right. I made a mistake. Now I'm sad. (*blam!*)

Dave Bell #402: Good on yer!

Dave Bell@ 402: Hurray! Best wishes for a continued recovery.

and @ 405 (et alia, wrt the Hummers): I live in the World Capitol of Bad Hummer Drivers, aka DC Metropolitan Area. I'm sure other areas have more people, thus more Hummer drivers. I'm equally sure NY has at least the same number of Diplomat license plates driving around.

But you all don't have the same combination of Awful Privilege (whether based on richness, governmental status, or diplomatic immunity) and Hummer vehicles.

We even have at least one stretch Hummer limo (although for stretch limos, I suspect Hawai'i will have more).

Add to that the lack of quality public transportation (it's there, but the quality suffers depending on location), and you have a critical mass of Bad Hummer Drivers on the congested roads.

Top all that off with winter weather that always takes people by surprise (as if they thought that being south of the Mason-Dixon Line meant that winter didn't exist), and you have a recipe for disaster.

Yet, somehow, every year we manage to make it through.

I made it to page 18 (out of 80) of the Torture Memos, and every step of the way had me wincing over the tortured phrasing, the desperate attempts to define the acts of torture as "not-torture" despite faint acknowledgments that this was possibly wrong, but not really.

This is Justice, to say

We have tortured
the words
that were in the Constitution

And which
You were probably
Thinking
were universal

Forget that
the framers were conscientous
so discrete
and so bold

Is the phrase 'Bad Hummer Driver' redundant, or only redundant for civilians? I suspect that the DC area has some military and ex-military who actually know how to drive one—but they wouldn't drive one in the city, unless they were trying to occupy it. So I think my rule still holds.

Xopher @ 417: I think your rule is correct; I offer the DC area in support of it. True, there are plenty of military and ex-military around to drive Real Hummers, but they don't. I see them on the road, and we're right across the street from the Naval hospital. Based on a non-scientific poll, randomly distributed sampling techniques, and a fine sense of irony, I can safely say the number of Hummers coming from that place is a value approaching zero*. Most of the military personnel drive pickups, vans, and regular cars.

*I wish I could say it was zero, but there's plenty of people with access to the hospital who are neither military nor ex-military.

Lori Coulson @ 412:

Bravo!

As a response, I just wrote my state medical board, saying:

"I have been horrified by recent news reports about doctors who have participated in the torture of "enemy combatants" as part of the "war on terror" -- and wonder if my state's medical board is investigating any licensed professionals who have so broken their Hippocratic Oath as to monitor patient health in the service of keeping patients exposed to "stress positions" healthy enough to endure even more torture.

Does the Medical Board of [our state] have a policy that addresses licensing of these individuals? And if so, how are these investigations carried out?"

The "Conservative grass roots" cannot be allowed to dominate our government's attention!

The American Psychological Association did pass a policy - I think it was year before last - prohibiting member psychologists from having any involvement with torture.

For those who appreciate 4x4 vehicles being used in difficult conditions:

A Picasa gallery of photos taken at the Kirton Off-Road Centre

I've driven in this place, and I sneer at the civilian Hummer drivers of DC.

Lori @412,

I called both my senators, and had a much-longer-than-usual talk with the two staffers (vs. the quick "thanks for your comment" one often gets).

One had not read 1984: I was still able to get the horrors of "We've. Built. Room. 101." To use Orwell as a guide: that's Orwellian.

It also helped the conversation to talk about my grandfather, who was a POW in Hong Kong for over 3 years*. And to have the phrase "Verschärfte Vernehmung" memorized.

---------------
* If what we did wasn't torture, then we owe some now-elderly Japanese officers apologies.

Kathryn @422: The USA tried and excuted Japanese interrogators after WW2 for using water-boarding on American prisoners-of-war.

Obama's statement, "we won't prosecute" has just rendered the justice of the Nuremberg trials moot. They're no longer about war crimes, now it's the winners punishing the losers.

A happy birthday to Alex, Abi's son! He really turned 8 last Staurday, but better late than never.

Ginger @ 415

"We even have at least one stretch Hummer limo"

They've even reached the UK, I'm sad to say - seen in London and Manchester. My jaw dropped the first time I saw one. Epitome of too much money and total lack of good taste.

My best-ever limo story is the one which had messed up a turn at Cambridge Circus, a junction in central London. The driver was having to do an umpteen-point-turn. There was a Black Cab (taxi) driver who could have backed up a bit and made it easier, but instead was sitting enjoying the show. I stopped for a while and grinned broadly myself.

417/418: There's a limo place near my house which has at least one super-stretched SUV limo. When you get to that level, it really doesn't matter what kind of SUV they stretched.

Here in the Outer DC Reaches, Hummers aren't that common, but SUVs still are (they fit into manorial delusions of the semirural). As road menaces none of them compare with the very many BMW drivers who are trying to shove past everyone else.

BMW stands for "Break My Windows."

Oh, that reminds me: we have photographic proof of the Jaguar that delivers pizza. I guess Jags are too common now.

i don't know whether this link goes here or in the amazon thread (for queer visiblity), but it reminds me of when ginger, & i think heather, & others were talking about the different kinds of lesbians there are (golf, uniformed, etc.).

watercolour cartoons of couples, from a show currently hanging in portland.

i wasn't previously familiar with the artist, but these made me smile and smile.

miriam beetle @ 429... Golf lesbians?

Today, my manager said that a request handed to me by a user could not be fulfilled because the deadline for all such weekly requests was yesterday at noon, and our making exceptions to the rules will lead to CHAOS. Yes, she actually said that.

I must now go report to Sigfried on the failure of my mission.

Ginger, #428: Gonna put it up somewhere? Preferably with a caption to the effect of "Lo, how the mighty are fallen"?

Lee @432: I should, shouldn't I?

Serge @431: Clearly, your boss is a long-hidden mole for the CIA, as in this operation. As for golf lesbians, they're the ones who attend the Dinah Shore Tournament every year. Think "rich, understand and/or play golf, and like to visit Palm Springs".

Will #335 redux (copied from another thread):

I'd just like to apologize (to you and the mods) for snapping at you the other day, at #338.

Yeah, I was a bit annoyed that you clearly hadn't caught up (to my bow-out at #324) before replying to a previous night's message -- but a half-smiley doesn't excuse telling someone to "go home" on a third party's blog.

Dave Bonta and Pica offer an article on Hand-binding small books of poetry.

miriam beetle @ 429: Love the watercolors!

My neighborhood was built around 1910, and has streets that are almost wide enough for 2 cars to pass each other when a third car is parked at the curb. I've considered organizing a little coordinated parking with my neighbors, ordering one of those stretch Hummer limos, and then sitting on the front porch with a pitcher of margaritas to watch the fun.

Ginger @ 433... Either that or she thinks that Elric and his soul-drinking sword are waiting for her domain's minions to lapse.

Serge @ 431 ...
It's a totally different sort of CHAOS[0] ... but it is amusing me...

[0] Probably NSFW in a variety of contexts

Xeger, I think your HTML is borked.

SUV and Hummer limos always scream 'misfired irony' to me. They weren't treated as anything but awesomely bad when I was in high school, and even now, most people I know see them more as stunts than anything.

Dave Bell @402: Congratulations. Ankles are definitely tricky; I found after the cast came off mine (simple break from a hard landing) that there was still sprain damage, but didn't have a physiotherapist on tap. (Definitely seconding abi's recommendation to stick with it.) wrt clutch, I'm reminded of Hambly mentioning research (for Those Who Hunt the Night) to find out whether a recent veteran of the Boer War would have had a motorcycle that he could drive with a broken wrist.

Lori@423: the problem with war-crimes trials is that they largely \are/ victor's justice; the people who firebombed Dresden, or who dropped a second A-bomb on Japan because a country with almost no communications left couldn't surrender fast enough, were never even called into court.

#408 Abi

She quotes you approvingly on letting a 4-year-old go to the park. I think your section is about 2/3rd of a page.

Summer Storms @ 439 ...
Hrm... that's annoying... how about this try

Hummers - my sister lives in Montana, and she and her husband work in Glacier National Park (not quite the Alaskan Tundra, but still geographically challenging). They have Subaru Outbacks. Lots of people there have Subaru Outbacks. (Also personalized license plates - I saw more personalized license plates in Kalispel than I've ever seen anywhere else.)

xeger @ 438-441... I am pondering what the symbolism of the flying bananas is.

xeger #443: how about this try

That reminds me a bit of the music of Candee Jay.

I haven't seen a real Hummer in quite some time. I see way too many of those parts-bin Tahoe-based H2 things and that horrid little Colorado-based H3. A real Hummer - the civvy version of the HMMWV - has a 6.2 or 6.5 diesel, sometimes turbo, 16 inches+ of ground clearance stock, and has less legroom than your average 80's fullsize van. It takes commitment to compromise comfort to that degree! My FJ-40 was a fun truck - daily commuter, weekend toy, and I definitely pushed the limits of it's 4WD capabilities. Tough as nails, too. Both the FJ-40 and the Series Land Rovers were "copies of" or homages to the original WW2 Jeep, that flexy light multi-purpose vehicle that did so much and kicked off the hobby that many a H2/H3 driver wants people to think they participate in - without the dents, dings and scratches of course. I test drove an H1 once, rather interesting. As an off-highway enthusiast, I quickly appreciated that I could legally fit 49" tires within Minnesota's 6" lift law, so long as I didn't alter the suspension to do it. At that height, it may have been capable of crossing Jersey Barriers! The sheer width of that rig, though, would be daunting to fit on trails - it's wider than most fullsize pickups and they already don't fit on some of the more interesting/technical trails. Heck, it would be daunting to try and navigate around a city! My old fullsize Dodge Ram 2500 Quad Cab Longbed Turbodiesel (17mpg is darn good for a 7500lb truck!) was tough to fit - parking garages were an interesting technical challenge. Sold it when I no longer had anything to tow. The Baja 1000 off-road race had at least one rocky technical section that had a "Hummer Only" line as they were the only vehicles with enough ground clearance to make it through. Even Pinzgauers and Unimogs can't match the fully-independent portal axle suspension design for sheer ground clearance.

Wouldn't want to pay the fuel bill, though. There's at least one hybrid electric version running around somewhere - full load capacity, full speed capacity, full range, but half the fuel tank size, half the time from 0-60 and has a 5-10 mile "silent running" range. Toyota made their MegaCruiser copy of the H1 for the JDF, and put in a really nice little 4-cyl turbodiesel. Better mileage than the GMC 6.2/6.5, though arguably more complex. (Mil-spec H1's had no turbo and fully mechanical injection, IIRC.) I do like the mil-spec fastback on the H1, something I've never seen on a civvie rig. The H1 has quite a bit of style when you peel off all that silly plastic inside. I have quite an appreciation for purpose-built vehicles.

BTW, the H1 can be airlifted, it's in the specs. Planes got bigger, so the truck did too. The original Jeep and the Rover Lightweight were rather small partly because the planes at the time were rather small inside. I do wish we could get the good ones here in the States, all we get are the "Mall Crawler" variants. What good is spending $100K+ on a Mercedes Gelandewagon when you're paying for leather and fancy trim but you'd rather have the factory diff-locks, higher rate suspension, lower gear ranges and other goodies? The LandCruiser's not available in heavy-duty trim over here either - all IFS here.

I drive a boring little 10yo Chevy Prizm now - the trucks are long gone - but it gets me to work and gets over 30mpg, so I don't complain too loudly. One of these days I'll have the time/money/shopspace/tools needed to build another rig. Gotta get 30mpg or better, though, or I can't have it. It's an engineering imperative.

/vehicular enthusiast

I would support charity events that feature sledgehammering Hummers. It would be very cathartic.

Ah... the humvee. I have a mixed mind on it. For what it does, it's great. Goes anywhere, is deadly reliable (if you maintain it), can ford streams over the motor (if you do a quick adjustment) and has ZERO comforts. The military version (the only one with which I am familiar) has lots of legroom, is drafty as all get out (unless you are in an up-armored one, in which case it's hot as blazes), and has a bunch of variants.

I'll never forget being in the back of a Marine humvee on Ft. Hunter Ligget. Only the clenching of our buttocks kept us in the thing.

But they take maintaining, and they don't handle well (though they are easy to drive) are wide as all get out, and both easy to see, and possessed of crappy visibilty (the gunner is the only one who can really see what's going on, and the driver [which was me] dependant on the passengers for status in the blind spots [when one is actually in a tactical evironment, it's a bit different when one isn't hauling a trailer, worrying about people popping up and shooting at RPG at one, etc.]).

And I have never understood the desire to own one. I see a couple of 4x strech limo humvees every week; more in prom season. Boggles me.

Stretch hummers.

When I think of those, I think of what for lack of better terms I'll call jocks and bimbos. Shallow, vain people I have no use for.

Terry, I thought I was pretty good with Army base names, but Liggett is a new name to me. Monterey County, huh?

It doesn't really look like anybody is interested in the answer to my trivia question, but I'll post it anyway: Paarfi of Roundwood, from Steven Brust's "Dragaera" series.

First time a shiny white stretched hire-hummer cruised past on the night street, it took a while to ‛see’ what this thing was.
I'm never sure if the passengers seriously consider it‛cool’, or are taking the p**s.

cajunfj40, dad would've loved to have a yarn.

Epacris @453: A couple of times around my city, I'd seen a bright yellow-orange stretched hummer about — I wondered what school that bus would be serving (and what kind of kids would ride in it).

Re: photic sneezing, I seem to be an intermediate case, in that I'll often sneeze in response to bright light or flashes, but it's not overwhelming.

Serge @ 445 ...
xeger @ 438-441... I am pondering what the symbolism of the flying bananas is.

Not in a melon-choly way, I hope...

Tomorrow night on the SciFi Channel, Knights of Bloodsteel...

On the island continent of Mirabilis, in a faraway time, the most coveted element is bloodsteel, a sorcery grade ore that imparts potent magical abilities to anyone who is able to draw it from the earth. The desire for untold wealth and power has drawn much of Mirabilis' vast and disparate populace-humans, elves, dwarves and goblins-to the old port mining town of Black Roc Keep. It has also enticed the evil Dragon Eye (Mark Gibbon) and his ruthless cadre of Brood soldiers, who'll stop at nothing to possess the ore for the purpose of total world domination. Enlisted to save Mirabilis from this lethal insurgency is the venerable sorcerer elf Tesselink (Christopher Lloyd), who has been given a vital directive by the Oracle of the land. He must find the legendary magical Crucible, which is the source of bloodsteel.

Tonight, War of the Worlds 2: The Next Wave. I think there's also a movie where a cryptozoologist smuggles a Chupacabra on a cruise ship. Presumably comedy ensues.

xeger @ 456... I guess we won't know until we peel away the layers of symbolism.

Re Hummers

There's just one around here.

It's driven by a local trauma surgeon.

http://www.themercury.com.au/article/2009/03/30/64051_todays-news.html

Linkmeister, it's kind of next door to Camp Roberts, northwest of Paso Robles and southwest of King City, and in from the coast. (Big Sur without the coastal scenery and weather.)

Serge @ 458 ... and I'm not sure that's an entirely a-peeling suggestion ;)

For some reason James D. MacDonald @ 1 caught my eye this time, and reminded me of this:

Farewell to Nova Scotia

The sun was setting in the west
The birds were singing on every tree
All nature seemed inclined for to rest
But still there was no rest for me.

Chorus
Farewell to Nova Scotia, you sea-bound coast
Let your mountains dark and dreary be
For when I am far away on the briny ocean tossed
Will you ever heave a sigh and a wish for me?

I grieve to leave my native land
I grieve to leave my comrades all
And my parents whom I held so dear
And the bonnie, bonnie lassie that I do adore.

Chorus

The drums they do beat and the wars to alarm
The captain calls, we must obey
So farewell, farewell to Nova Scotia's charms
For it's early in the morning I am far, far away.

Chorus

I have three brothers and they are at rest
Their arms are folded on their breast
But a poor simple sailor just like me
Must be tossed and driven on the dark blue sea.

Chorus

Serge @ 445: I am pondering what the symbolism of the flying bananas is.

I think that Earl Cooley III covered it at #381.

xeger @ 461... Thanks a bunch.

By the way, has your work situation improved, or did the idiot who had done it wrong strike again?

Joel Polowin @ 463... Ah yes. But do we really want our manhoods to fly away, independent and free? That sounds painful to me.

Serge @ 465:

Maybe, maybe not.

(Probably NSFW, but in a cute way.)

KeithS @ 466... Sure it can fly, but does that make it a testes pilot?

Dave Bell, congratulations! It's good to hear your continuing improvement. It's a long hard slog, but nice to see when it's having an effect.
(I managed a day at the Royal Easter Show! Though it killed me for a few days following.)
Marilee's been cheering to see improve too, after a terrifying time.

Serge @ 467: Do testes pilots do seminal flight research?

Dave Bell @421:

For those who appreciate 4x4 vehicles being used in difficult conditions:

A Picasa gallery of photos taken at the Kirton Off-Road Centre

I have a friend who used to work at Jaguar/Land Rover. You haven't seen difficult driving conditions until you've been out on their test track.

Ginger @428:

Oh, that reminds me: we have photographic proof of the Jaguar that delivers pizza. I guess Jags are too common now.

Didn't you get the memo? Only the XF is cool these days.

Parody of NOM "Gathering Storm" commercial.

Really funny and on target IMNSHO.

I am engaged in my regular activity of marking papers, and, as is the custom, learning many new things. This is one of them: "If the current President Barack Obama were to be assassinated, people all over the world would want to turn to ciaos." Farewell, it seems, to hope.

Fragano @ #472 can you take any comfort in knowing that at least the subjunctive was used properly? (If in fact it was; it looks and sounds right to me, but I'm willing to be overridden.)

KeithS@466:

Cute! I feel kinda bad for the little blue guy a few pages *ahem* ahead of the one you linked.

I love those fertility/luck charms that look like animals--in fact, I've just gotten a perky Thai bat in the mail today;)

Linkmeister: It's behind a ridge, and so has none of the cooling ocean breezes. On the other hand, the landscape is gorgeous, and it used to belong to William Randolph Hearst. He kept it as a hunting preserve, and the "lodge" is now the NCO club. Does a nice lunch, and a decent supper.

Linkmeister #472: The subjunctive was used correctly, much to my surprise.

Re: the "best Presidential photos" Particle -- the caption says their singing, but it looks to me like they're in the key of Zzzz....

Gah -- s/their/they're

And I need some Zzz's myself.

Quotes of the day, unfortunately.

Just to name a few contemporary instances, characters like Edward Cullen, Jacob Black, Harry Potter and Anakin Skywalker are universal archetypes that get recycled by authors over and over again with just a few variations here and there.

Snip.

Characters don't belong to authors. Authors don't create characters. They merely channel them. Characters are recurring universal archetypes. The only thing that changes is their names and identities, but their essence is always the same.

Authors write fanfiction and sell it all the time. They just change the identities of the characters to protect themselves from lawsuits. Unfortunately, when an author is honest about their unconventional views about fanfiction, they get called a "thief" and their ethical values come under attack.

The "Characters don't belong to authors" line is disingenuous at best because we're reading a press release from AV Paranormal: I understand that. What I find fascinating is the characters listed: not as bad as the "ultimate anticlimax" of "For God, For Country, and for Yale!" but the need for Edward Cullen/Twilight characters uber alles to get first place is disturbing, and the recent vintage of their "archetypes" is even more disturbing. Also, I don't like being made to feel like George F. "Seventy-five percent of American 'gamers' -- people who play video games -- are older than 18 and nevertheless are allowed to vote" Will this early in the day, thankyouverymuch.

Bruce E. Durocher II, #479: You left out the best part:

Laws that attempt to privatize the ownership of characters operate based on a delusion of separateness that we all share in this matrix we call reality. But according to Eckart Tolle, author of The Power of Now, there is no such a thing as separate minds. There is only one Universal Mind and it is the source of all our thoughts.

While this concept used to be considered an occult truth back in more conservative times, today it is a widespread awareness. This is the reason why modern science, especially the field of quantum physics, has started to accept the possibility of telepathy, clairvoyance and remote viewing.

See, fanfic authors get to use other people's characters because they and the author are part of the same telepathic group mind, and thus in some sense legally the same person.

In other words, the writer is using the Borg Defense.