Back to previous post: Facebook: still stupid

Go to Making Light's front page.

Forward to next post: AKICIF: old Analogs and Astoundings

Subscribe (via RSS) to this post's comment thread. (What does this mean? Here's a quick introduction.)

December 25, 2011

Texts, 2011
Posted by Teresa at 12:00 AM *

Luke 2:1-14, Anglo-Saxon (via):

Soþlice on þam dagum wæs geworden gebod fram þam casere Augusto, þæt eall ymbehwyrft wære tomearcod. Þeos tomearcodnes wæs æryst geworden fram þam deman Syrige Cirino. And ealle hig eodon, and syndrige ferdon on hyra ceastre. Ða ferde Iosep fram Galilea of þære ceastre Nazareth on Iudeisce ceastre Dauides, seo is genemned Beþleem, for þam þe he wæs of Dauides huse and hirede; þæt he ferde mid Marian þe him beweddod wæs, and wæs geeacnod. Soþlice wæs geworden þa hi þar wæron, hire dagas wæron gefyllede þæt heo cende. And heo cende hyre frumcennedan sunu, and hine mid cildclaþum bewand, and hine on binne alede, for þam þe hig næfdon rum on cumena huse. And hyrdas wæron on þam ylcan rice waciende, and nihtwæccan healdende ofer heora heorda. Þa stod Drihtnes engel wiþ hig, and Godes beorhtnes him ymbe scean; and hi him mycelum ege adredon. And se engel him to cwæð, Nelle ge eow adrædan; soþlice nu ic eow bodie mycelne gefean, se bið eallum folce; for þam to dæg eow ys Hælend acenned, se is Drihten Crist, on Dauides ceastre. And þis tacen eow byð: Ge gemetað an cild hræglum bewunden, and on binne aled. And þa wæs færinga geworden mid þam engle mycelnes heofenlices werydes, God heriendra and þus cweþendra, Gode sy wuldor on heahnesse, and on eorðan sybb mannum godes willan.

Luke 2:1-20, tr. John Wycliffe, 1382 (via)

And it was don in tho daies, a maundement wente out fro the emperour August, that al the world schulde be discryued. :: This firste discryuyng was maad of Cyryn, iustice of Sirie. :: And alle men wenten to make professioun, ech in to his owne citee. :: And Joseph wente vp fro Galilee, fro the citee Nazareth, in to Judee, in to a citee of Dauid, that is clepid Bethleem, for that he was of the hous and of the meyne of Dauid, :: that he schulde knouleche with Marie, his wijf, that was weddid to hym, and was greet with child. :: And it was don, while thei weren there, the daies weren fulfillid, that sche schulde bere child. :: And sche bare hir first borun sone, and wlappide hym in clothis, and leide hym in a cratche, for ther was no place to hym in no chaumbir. :: And scheepherdis weren in the same cuntre, wakynge and kepynge the watchis of the nyyt on her flok. :: And lo! the aungel of the Lord stood bisidis hem, and the cleernesse of God schinede aboute hem; and thei dredden with greet drede. :: And the aungel seide to hem, Nyle ye drede; for lo! Y preche to you a greet ioye, that schal be to al puple. :: For a sauyoure is borun to dai to you, that is Crist the Lord, in the citee of Dauid. :: And this is a tokene to you; ye schulen fynde a yong child wlappid in clothis, and leid in a cratche. :: And sudenli ther was maad with the aungel a multitude of heuenli knyythod, heriynge God, :: and seiynge, Glorie be in the hiyeste thingis to God, and in erthe pees be to men of good wille. :: And it was don, as the aungelis passiden awei fro hem in to heuene, the scheephirdis spaken togider, and seiden, Go we ouer to Bethleem, and se we this word that is maad, which the Lord hath maad, and schewide to vs. :: And thei hiyynge camen, and founden Marie and Joseph, and the yong child leid in a cratche. :: And thei seynge, knewen of the word that was seid to hem of this child. :: And alle men that herden wondriden, and of these thingis that weren seid to hem of the scheephirdis. :: But Marie kepte alle these wordis, berynge togider in hir herte. :: And the scheepherdis turneden ayen, glorifyinge and heriynge God in alle thingis that thei hadden herd and seyn, as it was seid to hem.

Luke 2:1-20, tr. William Tyndale, 1530

And it chaunced in thoose dayes: yt ther went oute a comaundment from Auguste the Emperour that all the woorlde shuld be taxed. :: And this taxynge was ye fyrst and executed when Syrenius was leftenaut in Syria. :: And every man went vnto his awne citie to be taxed. :: And Ioseph also ascended from Galile oute of a cite called Nazareth into Iurie: vnto ye cite of David which is called Bethleem because he was of the housse and linage of David :: to be taxed with Mary his spoused wyfe which was with chylde. :: And it fortuned whyll they were there her tyme was come that she shuld be delyvered. :: And she brought forth her fyrst begotten sonne and wrapped him in swadlynge cloothes and layed him in a manger because ther was no roume for them within in the ynne. :: And ther were in the same region shepherdes abydinge in the felde and watching their flocke by nyght. :: And loo: the angell of ye lorde stode harde by them and the brightnes of ye lorde shone rounde aboute them and they were soare afrayed. :: But the angell sayd vnto them: Be not afrayed. For beholde I bringe you tydinges of greate ioye yt shal come to all ye people: :: for vnto you is borne this daye in the cite of David a saveoure which is Christ ye lorde. :: And take this for a signe: ye hall fynde ye chylde swadled and layed in a mager. :: And streight waye ther was with the angell a multitude of hevenly sowdiers laudynge God and sayinge: :: Glory to God an hye and peace on the erth: and vnto men reioysynge. :: And it fortuned assone as the angels were gone awaye fro them in to heven the shepherdes sayd one to another: let vs goo eve vnto Bethleem and se this thynge that is hapened which the Lorde hath shewed vnto vs. :: And they cam with haste and founde Mary and Ioseph and the babe layde in a mager. :: And when they had sene it they publisshed a brode the sayinge which was tolde them of that chylde. :: And all that hearde it wondred at those thinges which were tolde the of the shepherdes. :: But Mary kept all thoose sayinges and pondered them in hyr hert. :: And the shepherdes retourned praysinge and laudinge God for all that they had herde and sene evyn as it was told vnto them.

Luke 2:1-20, tr. Miles Coverdale, 1535

It fortuned at the same tyme, that there wete out a comaundement fro Augustus the Emperoure, that the whole worlde shulde be taxed. And this taxynge was the first that was executed, whan Syrenius was leftenaunt in Siria. And they wente all, euery one to his owne cite to be taxed. Then Ioseph gat him vp also fro Galile, out of the cite of Nazareth, in to Iewry, to ye cite of Dauid, which is called Bethleem, (because he was of ye house and lynage of Dauid) that he might be taxed wt Mary his spoused wife, which was wt childe. And it fortuned whyle they were there, ye tyme was come, that she shulde be delyuered. And she brought forth hir first begotte sonne, & wrapped him in swadlinge clothes, and layed him in a maunger: for they had els no rowme in the ynne.

And there were in ye same region shepherdes in the felde by the foldes, and watchinge their flocke by night. And beholde, ye angell of the Lorde stode by the, and ye brightnes of the Lorde shone rounde aboute them, and they were sore afrayed. And the angell sayde vnto them: Be not afrayed. Beholde, I brynge you tydiges of greate ioye, which shall happen vnto all people: for vnto you this daye is borne ye Sauioure, eue Christ ye Lorde, in the cite of Dauid. And take this for a token: Ye shal fynde the babe swadled, and layed in a maunger. And straight waye there was by the angell a multitude of heauenly hoostes, which praysed God, and sayde: Glory be vnto God an hye, & peace vpon earth, and vnto men a good wyll.

And it fortuned wha the angels were gone from the in to heaue, the shepherdes sayde one to another: let vs go now euen vnto Bethleem, and se this thinge that is happened, which ye Lorde hath shewed vnto vs. And they came wt haist, & founde both Mary and Ioseph, & the babe layed in ye maunger. And whan they had sene it, they published abrode the sayenge, yt was tolde the of this childe. And all they that herde it, wondred at the wordes, which the shepherdes had tolde them. But Mary kepte all these sayenges, and pondred them in hir hert. And the shepherdes returned, praysinge and laudinge God, for all that they had herde and sene, euen as it was tolde them.

Luke 2:1-14, King James Version, 1611

And it came to pass in those days, that there went out a decree from Caesar Augustus that all the world should be taxed. (And this taxing was first made when Cyrenius was governor of Syria.) And all went to be taxed, every one into his own city.

And Joseph also went up from Galilee, out of the city of Nazareth, into Judea, unto the city of David, which is called Bethlehem (because he was of the house and lineage of David), to be taxed with Mary his espoused wife, she being great with child.

And so it was that while they were there, the days were accomplished that she should be delivered; and she brought forth her first-born son, and wrapped him in swaddling clothes; and laid him in a manger, because there was no room for them in the inn.

And there were in the same country shepherds abiding in the field, keeping watch over their flock by night. And, lo, the angel of the Lord came upon them, and the glory of the Lord shone round about them, and they were sore afraid.

And the angel said unto them, Fear not; for behold, I bring you good tidings of great joy, which shall be to all people. For unto you is born this day, in the city of David, a Saviour, which is Christ the Lord. And this shall be a sign unto you: That ye shall find the babe wrapped in swaddling clothes, and lying in a manger.

And suddenly there was with the angel a multitude of the heavenly host, praising God, and saying, Glory to God in the highest, and on earth peace, good will toward men.

Luke 2:1-14 - Δοξα εν υψιστοις θεω, και επι γης ειρηνη εν ανθρωποις ευδοκιας
εγενετο δε εν ταις ημεραις εκειναις εξηλθεν δογμα παρα καισαρος αυγουστου απογραφεσθαι πασαν την οικουμενην
    αυτη απογραφη πρωτη εγενετο ηγεμονευοντος της συριας κυρηνιου
    και επορευοντο παντες απογραφεσθαι εκαστος εις την εαυτου πολιν
    ανεβη δε και ιωσηφ απο της γαλιλαιας εκ πολεως ναζαρεθ εις την ιουδαιαν εις πολιν δαυιδ ητις καλειται βηθλεεμ δια το ειναι αυτον εξ οικου και πατριας δαυιδ
    απογραψασθαι συν μαριαμ τη εμνηστευμενη αυτω ουση εγκυω
    εγενετο δε εν τω ειναι αυτους εκει επλησθησαν αι ημεραι του τεκειν αυτην
    και ετεκεν τον υιον αυτης τον πρωτοτοκον και εσπαργανωσεν αυτον και ανεκλινεν αυτον εν φατνη διοτι ουκ ην αυτοις τοπος εν τω καταλυματι
    και ποιμενες ησαν εν τη χωρα τη αυτη αγραυλουντες και φυλασσοντες φυλακας της νυκτος επι την ποιμνην αυτων
    και αγγελος κυριου επεστη αυτοις και δοξα κυριου περιελαμψεν αυτους και εφοβηθησαν φοβον μεγαν
    και ειπεν αυτοις ο αγγελος μη φοβεισθε ιδου γαρ ευαγγελιζομαι υμιν χαραν μεγαλην ητις εσται παντι τω λαω
    οτι ετεχθη υμιν σημερον σωτηρ ος εστιν χριστος κυριος εν πολει δαυιδ
    και τουτο υμιν το σημειον ευρησετε βρεφος εσπαργανωμενον και κειμενον εν φατνη
    και εξαιφνης εγενετο συν τω αγγελω πληθος στρατιας ουρανιου αινουντων τον θεον και λεγοντων
    δοξα εν υψιστοις θεω και επι γης ειρηνη εν ανθρωποις ευδοκιας

(Thank you, Nick Whyte.)

Luke 2:1-20 in Old Church Slavonic:

мѣсѧца дєкѧбр҄ја иг въ навєчєриѥ рождьства хрьстова єванћєлиѥ отъ лѹкъі глава в въ оно врѣмѧ изідє заповѣдь отъ кєсарѣ авгоста напісаті в҄сѫ вьсєлєнѫѭ | сє напісаніє пръвоє бъістъ владѫщѹ сѹрієѭ и кѵрінієѭ | и идѣахѫ вьсі напісатъ сѧ кьждо въ свои градъ | вьзідє жє иосіфь отъ галілєѧ и града назарєтьска вь июдєѭ вь градъ давъідовъ іжє наріцаєтъ сѧ віѳлєємь занє бѣашє отъ домѹ и отьчьствіѣ давъідова | напісатъ сѧ съ марієѭ обрѫчєнѫѭ ємѹ жєноѭ сѫштєѭ нєпраздъноѭ | бъістъ жє єгда бъістє тѹ исплънишѧ сѧ дєниє да родітъ | и роді съінъ свои пръвѣнєць и обитъі и и положі и въ ѣслєхъ занє нє бѣ има мѣста въ обитѣли | и пастъирі бѣахѫ въ тоиждє ст҄ранѣ бъдѧщє и стрѣгѫщє стражѫ нощьнѫѭ о стадѣ своємъ | и сє анћєлъ господьнь ста вь нихъ и слава господьнѣ осіѣ ѧ и ѹбоѣшѧ сѧ ст҄рахомъ вєлиємъ | и рєчє имъ анћєлъ нє боитє сѧ сє бо благовѣщаѭ вамъ радость вєліѭ ѣжє бѫдєт бьсѣмь людємъ | ѣко роді сѧ вамъ съпасъ іжє єстъ христъ господь въ градѣ давъідовѣ | и сє вамъ з҄намєниє обрѧстєтє младьнєць повітъ и лєжѧшть вь ѣслєхъ | и вънєзаапѫ бъістъ съ ангѣломъ м҄ножьство вои нєбєснъіих хвалѧштиихъ бога и глаголѭшть | сла въ въішніих богѹ и на зєми миръ въ чловѣцѣхъ благоволєниє | и бъістъ ѣко отідѫ оть ніхъ анћєлі на нєбо и чловѣци пастъирі рѣшѧ дрѹгь кь дрѹгѹ прѣидѣмъ ѹбо до віѳлєома и відімъ глаголь сь бъівьшіи єгожє господь съказа нам | и прѣидѫ под҄вігьшє сѧ и обрѣтѫ маріѭ и иосифа и младьнєць лєжѧшть вь ѣслєхъ | видѣвъшє жє ськазашѧ о глаголѣ глаголанѣмь о отрочѧті сємъ | и въсі слъішавъшє дівішѧ сѧ о глаголанъіихъ отъ пастъирь кь німъ | маріѣ жє вьсѧ съблюдаашє глаголъі сіи въ срьдьци своємъ | и възвратішѧ сѧ пастъірі славѧштє и хвалѧштє бога о в҄сѣхъ ѣжє слъішашѧ и відѣшѧ ѣкожє глаголано бъисть кь нимъ |

(Thank you, Xopher)

Vulgate: Luke 2:1-14

Factum est autem in diebus illis, exiit edictum a Cæsare Augusto ut describeretur universus orbis. Hæc descriptio prima facta est a præside Syriæ Cyrino: et ibant omnes ut profiterentur singuli in suam civitatem. Ascendit autem et Joseph a Galilæa de civitate Nazareth in Judæam, in civitatem David, quæ vocatur Bethlehem: eo quod esset de domo et familia David, ut profiteretur cum Maria desponsata sibi uxore prægnante. Factum est autem, cum essent ibi, impleti sunt dies ut pareret. Et peperit filium suum primogenitum, et pannis eum involvit, et reclinavit eum in præsepio: quia non erat eis locus in diversorio. Et pastores erant in regione eadem vigilantes, et custodientes vigilias noctis super gregem suum. Et ecce angelus Domini stetit juxta illos, et claritas Dei circumfulsit illos, et timuerunt timore magno. Et dixit illis angelus: Nolite timere: ecce enim evangelizo vobis gaudium magnum, quod erit omni populo: quia natus est vobis hodie Salvator, qui est Christus Dominus, in civitate David. Et hoc vobis signum: invenietis infantem pannis involutum, et positum in præsepio. Et subito facta est cum angelo multitudo militiæ cælestis laudantium Deum, et dicentium: [Gloria in altissimis Deo, et in terra pax hominibus bonæ voluntatis.]

(Thank you, Sisuile.)

Luke 2:14 in Gothic

Warth than in dagans jainans. urrann gagrefts fram kaisara Agustau gameljan allana midjungard. soh than gilstrameleins frumista warth at wisandin kindina Swriais raginondin Saurim Kwreinaiau. jah iddjedun allai ei melidai weseina. hwarjizuh in seinai baurg. urrann than jah Iosef us Galeilaia. us baurg Nazaraith in Iudaian. in baurg Daweidis sei haitada Bethlaihaim duthe ei was us garda fadreinais Daweidis. anameljan mith Mariin. sei in fragiftim was imma qeins. wisandein inkilthon. warth than miththanei. tho wesun jainar. usfullnodedun dagos du bairan izai jah gabar sunu seinana thana frumabaur. jah biwand ina jah galagida ina in uzetin. unte ni was im rumis in stada thamma.

jah hairdjos wesun in thamma samin landa, thairhwakandans jah witandans wahtwom nahts ufaro hairdai seinai. ith aggilus fraujins anaqam ins jah wulthus fraujins biskain ins, jah ohtedun agisa mikilamma. jah qath du im sa aggilus: ni ogeith, unte sai, spillo izwis faheid mikila, sei wairthith allai managein, thatei gabaurans ist izwis himma daga nasjands, saei ist Xristus frauja, in baurg Daweidis. jah thata izwis taikns: bigitid barn biwundan jah galagid in uzetin. jah anaks warth mith thamma aggilau managei harjis himinakundis hazjandane guth jah qithandane:

wulthus in hauhistjam guda
jah ana airthai gawairthi in mannam godis wiljins.

(Thank you, Lisa Spangenberg, a.k.a. the Digital Medievalist; who in turn gives credit to “Jim Marchand, medievalist extraordinaire.”) (see also)

Luke 2:1-14 in Lallans Scots

About this time the Emperor Augustus pat furth an edick ordeinin at aa the fowk i the haill warld suid be registrate. This wis whan Quirinius wis Governor o Syria, an it wis the first time at siccan a thing hed been dune. Sae aabodie gaed tae be registrate, ilkane til his ain toun, Joseph amang the lave.

He belanged til the stock an faimlie o Dauvit, an sae it was wis tae Dauvit’s Toun, Bethlehem in Judaea, at he gaed doun frae Nazareth in Galilee for tae gie in his name, takkin Mary, at wis haundfastit til him, wi him. She wis boukin gin this; an whan they war in Bethlehem, she cam til her time an brocht hame her first-born son. She swealed the bairn in a barrie an beddit him in a heck, sin there wis nae room for them intil the inn.

Nou, i that same pairt the war a wheen herds bidin thereout on the hill an keepin gaird owre their hrisel at nicht. Suddent an angel o the Lord cam an stuid afore them, an the glorie o the Lord shined about them, an they war uncolie frichtit. But the angel said tae them: Binna nane afeard, I bring ye guid news o gryte blytheness for the haill fowk—this day in Dauvit’s Town a saviour hes born til ye, Christ the Lord! This gate ye s’ken it is een as I say: ye will finnd a new-born bairn swealed in a barrie an liggin intil a heck.

Syne in a gliff an unco thrang o the airmies o hieven kythed aside the angel, glein laud tae God an liltin:

Glore tae God i the heicht o heiven, an peace on the yird tae men he delytes in!

(Thank you, Lee Sandlin.)

Luke 2:1-14 in Swedish, trans. 2000

Vid den tiden utfärdade kejsar Augustus en förordning om att hela världen skulle skattskrivas. Det var den första skattskrivningen, och den hölls när Quirinius var ståthållare i Syrien. Alla gick då för att skattskriva sig, var och en till sin stad. Och Josef, som genom sin härkomst hörde till Davids hus, begav sig från Nasaret i Galileen upp till Judeen, till Davids stad Betlehem, för att skattskriva sig tillsammans med Maria, sin trolovade, som väntade sitt barn. Medan de befann sig där var tiden inne för henne att föda, och hon födde sin son, den förstfödde. Hon lindade honom och lade honom i en krubba, eftersom det inte fanns plats för dem inne i härbärget. I samma trakt låg några herdar ute och vaktade sin hjord om natten. Då stod Herrens ängel framför dem och Herrens härlighet lyste omkring dem, och de greps av stor förfäran. Men ängeln sade till dem: “Var inte rädda. Jag bär bud till er om en stor glädje, en glädje för hela folket. I dag har en frälsare fötts åt er i Davids stad, han är Messias, Herren. Och detta är tecknet för er: ni skall finna ett nyfött barn som är lindat och ligger i en krubba.” Och plötsligt var där tillsammans med ängeln en stor himmelsk här som prisade Gud:

“Ära i höjden åt Gud
och på jorden fred åt dem han har utvalt.”

Luke 2:1-14 in Swedish, trans. 1917

Och det hände sig vid den tiden att från kejsar Augustus utgick ett påbud att hela världen skulle skattskrivas. Detta var den första skattskrivningen, och den hölls, när Kvirinius var landshövding över Syrien. Då färdades alla var och en till sin stad, för att låta skattskriva sig. Så gjorde ock Josef; och eftersom han var av Davids hus och släkt, for han från staden Nasaret i Galileen upp till Davids stad, som heter Betlehem, i Judeen, för att låta skattskriva sig jämte Maria, sin trolovade, som var havande. Medan de voro där, hände sig att tiden var inne, då hon skulle föda. Och hon födde sin förstfödde son och lindade honom och lade honom i en krubba, ty det fanns icke rum för dem i härbärget. I samma nejd voro då några herdar ute på marken och höllo vakt om natten över sin hjord. Då stod en Herrens ängel framför dem, och Herrens härlighet kringstrålade dem; och de blevo mycket förskräckta. Men ängeln sade till dem: »Varen icke förskräckta. Se, jag bådar eder en stor glädje, som skall vederfaras allt folket. Ty i dag har en Frälsare blivit född åt eder i Davids stad, och han är Messias, Herren. Och detta skall för eder vara tecknet: I skolen finna ett nyfött barn, som ligger lindat i en krubba.» I detsamma sågs där jämte ängeln en stor hop av den himmelska härskaran, och de lovade Gud och sade:

»Ära vare Gud i höjden, och frid på jorden,
bland människor till vilka han har behag!» <

Luke 2:1-14 in Swedish, trans. 1541 - Gustavus Vasa’s bible, translated from Martin Luther’s bible

Thet begaff sigh j then tijdhen, at aff Keysar Augusto vthgick itt bodh, at all werlden skulle beskattas. Och thenna beskatning war then första, och skeedde vnder then Höffdingen offuer Syrien, Kyrenio. Och the gingo alle hwar vthi sin stadh, til at läta beskatta sigh. Så foor ock Joseph vp aff Galilea, aff then stadhen Nazareth in vthi Judeska landet, til Dauidz stadh, som heter Bethlehem, Ty han war aff Dauidz hws och slecht, på thet han skulle låta beskatta sigh medh Maria sijn troloffuadha hustru, hwilken haffuandes war. Så begaff sigh medhan the woro ther, wordo daghanar fulbordadhe, at hon skulle födha. Och hon födde sin förstfödda Son, och swepte honom j lindaklädher, och ladhe honom nedher j een krubbo, Ty them war icke rwm j herberghena. Och j then samma egnden woro någhre Heerdar, the ther wakadhe och höllo wård om nattena offuer sin hiord. Och sij, Herrans Ängel stoodh när them, och Herrans klarheet kringskeen them, och the wordo stoorligha förfäradhe. Och sadhe Ängelen til them, Warer icke förfäradhe, Sij, iagh bodhar idher stoor glädhi, hwilken allo folckena widerfaras skal, Ty jdagh är idher födder Frelsaren, som är Christus Herren, j Dauidz stadh. Och thetta skal wara idher för tekn. J skole finna Barnet swept j lindaklädher, nedherlagdt j een krubbo. Och strax wardt medh Ängelen itt stoort taal aff then himmelska häärskaran, the ther loffuadhe Gudh, och sadhe, Ära ware Gudh j högden, Och på jordenne fridh, Och menniskiomen en godh wilie.

(Thank you, Mikael Johansson.)

Nederlandse Statenvertaling (1637), Lukas 2:1-20

1 En het geschiedde in diezelfde dagen, dat er een gebod uitging van den Keizer Augustus, dat de gehele wereld beschreven zou worden.
2 Deze eerste beschrijving geschiedde, als Cyrenius over Syrie stadhouder was.
3 En zij gingen allen om beschreven te worden, een iegelijk naar zijn eigen stad.
4 En Jozef ging ook op van Galilea, uit de stad Nazareth, naar Judea, tot de stad Davids, die Bethlehem genaamd wordt, (omdat hij uit het huis en geslacht van David was);
5 Om beschreven te worden met Maria, zijn ondertrouwde vrouw, welke bevrucht was.
6 En het geschiedde, als zij daar waren, dat de dagen vervuld werden, dat zij baren zoude.
7 En zij baarde haar eerstgeboren Zoon, en wond Hem in doeken, en legde Hem neder in de kribbe, omdat voor henlieden geen plaats was in de herberg.
8 En er waren herders in diezelfde landstreek, zich houdende in het veld, en hielden de nachtwacht over hun kudde.
9 En ziet, een engel des Heeren stond bij hen, en de heerlijkheid des Heeren omscheen hen, en zij vreesden met grote vreze.
10 En de engel zeide tot hen: Vreest niet, want, ziet, ik verkondig u grote blijdschap, die al den volke wezen zal;
11 Namelijk dat u heden geboren is de Zaligmaker, welke is Christus, de Heere, in de stad Davids.
12 En dit zal u het teken zijn: gij zult het Kindeken vinden in doeken gewonden, en liggende in de kribbe.
13 En van stonde aan was er met den engel een menigte des hemelsen heirlegers, prijzende God en zeggende:
14 Ere zij God in de hoogste hemelen, en vrede op aarde, in de mensen een welbehagen.
15 En het geschiedde, als de engelen van hen weggevaren waren naar de hemel, dat de herders tot elkander zeiden: Laat ons dan heengaan naar Bethlehem, en laat ons zien het woord, dat er geschied is, hetwelk de Heere ons heeft verkondigd.
16 En zij kwamen met haast, en vonden Maria en Jozef, en het Kindeken liggende in de kribbe.
17 En als zij Het gezien hadden, maakten zij alom bekend het woord, dat hun van dit Kindeken gezegd was.
18 En allen, die het hoorden, verwonderden zich over hetgeen hun gezegd werd van de herders.
19 Doch Maria bewaarde deze woorden alle te zamen, overleggende die in haar hart.
20 En de herders keerde wederom, verheerlijkende en prijzende God over alles, wat zij gehoord en gezien hadden, gelijk tot hen gesproken was.

Luke 2:1-14 in Portuguese:

1. Naqueles tempos apareceu um decreto de César Augusto, ordenando o recenseamento de toda a terra.
2. Este recenseamento foi feito antes do governo de Quirino, na Síria.
3. Todos iam alistar-se, cada um na sua cidade.
4. Também José subiu da Galiléia, da cidade de Nazaré, à Judéia, à Cidade de Davi, chamada Belém, porque era da casa e família de Davi,
5. para se alistar com a sua esposa Maria, que estava grávida.
6. Estando eles ali, completaram-se os dias dela.
7. E deu à luz seu filho primogênito, e, envolvendo-o em faixas, reclinou-o num presépio; porque não havia lugar para eles na hospedaria.
8. Havia nos arredores uns pastores, que vigiavam e guardavam seu rebanho nos campos durante as vigílias da noite.
9. Um anjo do Senhor apareceu-lhes e a glória do Senhor refulgiu ao redor deles, e tiveram grande temor.
10. O anjo disse-lhes: Não temais, eis que vos anuncio uma boa nova que será alegria para todo o povo:
11. hoje vos nasceu na Cidade de Davi um Salvador, que é o Cristo Senhor.
12. Isto vos servirá de sinal: achareis um recém-nascido envolto em faixas e posto numa manjedoura.
13. E subitamente ao anjo se juntou uma multidão do exército celeste, que louvava a Deus e dizia:
14. Glória a Deus no mais alto dos céus e na terra paz aos homens, objetos da benevolência (divina).

(Thank you, Fragano)

Lik 2:1-14 en Kreyòl Ayisyen (Haitian)

1. Lè sa a, Seza Ogis te bay lòd pou yo te konte dènye moun ki nan peyi l’ap gouvènen yo. :: 2. Premye travay sa a te fèt nan tan Kireniyis t’ap kòmande nan peyi yo rele Siri a. :: 3. Tout moun te al fè pran non yo nan lavil kote fanmi yo te soti. :: 4. Jozèf te rete nan peyi Galile, nan yon bouk yo rele Nazarèt. Men, paske li te moun nan fanmi ak ras David, li moute, li ale nan Jide, nan lavil David yo rele Betleyèm lan. :: 5. Jozèf tapral fè yo pran non l’ ansanm ak non Mari, fiyanse li, ki te ansent. :: 6. Antan yo te la, jou pou Mari te akouche a rive. :: 7. Li fè premye pitit li a, yon ti gason. Mari vlope pitit la nan kouchèt, li mete l’ kouche nan yon kay kote yo bay bèt manje, paske pa t’ gen plas pou yo nan lotèl la. :: 8. Nan menm zòn sa a, te gen gadò mouton ki t’ap pase nwit la deyò ap veye mouton yo. :: 9. Lè sa a, yon zanj Bondye parèt devan yo, bèl limyè Bondye a klere tout kote yo te ye a. Yo te pè anpil. :: 10. Men zanj lan di yo konsa: Pa pè. N’ap anonse nou yon bon nouvèl ki pral fè tout pèp la kontan anpil. :: 11. Jòdi a, nan lavil David la, nou gen yon Sovè ki fenk fèt: se Kris la, Seyè a. :: 12. Men remak ki va fè nou rekonèt li: n’a jwenn yon tibebe vlope nan kouchèt, kouche nan yon kay kote yo bay bèt manje. :: 13. Menm lè a, yon foul lòt zanj nan syèl la vin jwenn zanj lan; yo t’ap fè lwanj Bondye, yo t’ap di konsa: :: 14. Lwanj pou Bondye anwo nan syèl la, kè poze sou latè pou tout moun li renmen.

Lúkasar guðspjall 2:1-20 in Icelandic:

En það bar til um þessar mundir, að boð kom frá Ágústus keisara, að skrásetja skyldi alla heimsbyggðina. Þetta var fyrsta skrásetningin og var gjörð þá er Kýreníus var landstjóri á Sýrlandi. Fóru þá allir til að láta skrásetja sig, hver til sinnar borgar. Þá fór og Jósef úr Galíleu frá borginni Nasaret upp til Júdeu, til borgar Davíðs, að láta skrásetja sig ásamt Maríu heitkonu sinni, sem var þunguð. En meðan þau voru þar, kom sá tími, er hún skyldi verða léttari. Fæddi jún þá son sinn frumgetinn, vafði hann reifum og lagði hann í jötu, af því að eigi var rúm handa þeim í gistihúsi.

En í sömu byggð voru hirðar úti í haga og gættu um nóttina hjarðar sinnar. Og engill Drottins stóð hjá þeim, og dýrð Drottins ljómaði kringum þá. Þeir urðu mjög hræddir, en engillinn sagði við þá: “Verið óhræddir, því sjá, ég boða yður mikinn fögnuð, sem veitast mun öllum lýðnum: Yður er í dag frelsari fæddur, sem er Kristur Drottinn, í borg Davíðs. Og hafði þetta til marks: Þið munuð finna ungbarn reifað og lagt í jötu.”

Og í sömu svipan var með englinum fjöldi himneskra hersveita, sem lofuðu Guð og sögðu: Dýrð sé Guði í upphæðum og friður á jörðu með mönnum, sem hann hefur velþóknun á. Þegar englarnir voru farnir frá þeim til himins, sögðu hirðarnir sín á milli: “Förum beint til Betlahem að sjá það, sem gjörst hefur og Drottinn hefur kunngjört oss” Og þeir fóru með skyndi og fundu Maríu og Jósef og ungbarnið, sem lá í jötu. Þegar þeir sáu það, skýrðu þeir frá því, er þeim hafði verið sagt um barn þetta. Og allir, sem heyrðu, undruðust það, er hirðarnir sögðu þeim. En María geymdi allt þetta í hjarta sér og hugleiddi það. Og hirðarnir sneru aftur og vegsömuðu Guð og lofuðu hann fyrir það, sem þeir höfðu heyrt og séð, en allt var það eins og þeim hafði verið sagt.

(Thank you, Sica)

Luke 2:1-20, trans. 1545 by Martin Luther

1. Es begab sich aber zu der Zeit, daß ein Gebot vom Kaiser Augustusausging, daß alle Welt geschätzt würde. :: 2. Und diese Schätzung war die allererste und geschah zu der Zeit, daCyrenius Landpfleger in Syrien war :: 3. Und jedermann ging, daß er sich schätzen ließe, ein. jeglicher inseine Stadt. :: 4. Da machte sich auch auf Joseph aus Galiläa, aus der Stadt Nazareth,in das jüdische Land zur Stadt Davids die da heißt Bethlehem, darum daßer von dem Hause und Geschlechte Davids war :: 5. auf daß er sich schätzen ließe mit Maria, seinem vertrauten Weibe,die war schwanger. :: 6. Und als sie daselbst waren, kam die Zeit, daß sie gebären sollte. :: 7. Und sie gebar ihren ersten Sohn und wickelte ihn in Windeln undlegte ihn in eine Krippe; denn sie hatten sonst keinen Raum in derHerberge. :: 8. Und es waren Hirten in derselbigen Gegend auf dem Felde bei denHürden, die hüteten des Nachts ihre Herde. :: 9. und siehe des Herrn Engel trat zu ihnen, und die Klarheit des Herrnleuchtete um sie, und sie fürchteten sich sehr. :: 10. Und der Engel sprach zu ihnen: Fürchtet euch nicht! Siehe, ichverkündige euch große Freude, die allem Volk widerfahren wird; :: 11. denn euch ist heute der Heiland geboren, welcher ist Christus, derHerr, in der Stadt Davids. :: 12. Und das habt zum Zeichen: Ihr werdet finden das Kind in Windelngewickelt und in einer Krippe liegen. :: 13. Und alsbald war da bei dem Engel die Menge der himmlischenHeerscharen, die lobten Gott und sprachen: :: 14. Ehre sei Gott in der Höhe und Friede auf Erden und den Menschenein Wohlgefallen! :: 15. Und da die Engel von ihnen gen Himmel fuhren, sprachen die Hirtenuntereinander: Laßt uns nun gehen gen Bethlehem und die Geschichtesehen, die da geschehen ist, die uns der Herr kundgetan hat. :: 16. Und sie kamen eilend und fanden beide, Maria und Joseph, dazu dasKind in der Krippe liegen. :: 17. Da sie es aber gesehen hatten breiteten sie das Wort aus, welcheszu ihnen von diesem Kind gesagt war. :: 18. Und alle, vor die es kam, wunderten sich der Rede, die ihnen dieHirten gesagt hatten. :: 19. Maria aber behielt alle diese Worte und bewegete sie in ihremHerzen. :: 20. Und die Hirten kehreten wieder um, preiseten und lobten Gott umalles, was sie gehöret und gesehen hatten, wie denn zu ihnen gesagt war.

(Thank you, Fidelio)

Luke 2:1-14 in Quenya

1. Ar túlë entë auressen i etelendë canwa Auhustus i Táraranello, i mo notumnë quanda ambar. :: 2. Minya notië sina martanë írë Quirinius nánë cáno Sírio. :: 3. Ilyë queni lender náven nótinë, ilquen véra ostoryanna. :: 4. Yando Yósef lendë amba Alilëallo, et i ostollo Nasaret, mir Yúrëa, Laviro ostonna, ya ná estaina Vet-Lehem, pan anes maro ar nossëo Laviro, :: 5. náven nótina as María ye nánë antaina sen vestalessë, ar ye sí nánë lapsarwa. :: 6. Írë engettë tassë, i lúmë túlë yassë columnes lapserya. :: 7. Ar colles yondorya, i minnóna, ar se-vaitanes ar panyane se salquecolcassë, pan lá engë tún nómë mí marmen. :: 8. Enger mavalli i imya nóressë i marner i restassë, tírala lámáreltar i lómissë. :: 9. Ar i Héruo vala tarnë ara te, ar i Héruo alcar caltanë os te, ar túra caurë nampë te. :: 10. Mal i vala quentë téna: “Áva rucë, pan inyë cára sinwa len túra alassë ya nauva i quanda lien, :: 11. an anaië cólina len síra Rehtando, ye ná Hristo, i Heru, Laviro ostossë. :: 12. Ar si nauva tanna len: Hiruvaldë vinimo, vaitana ar caitala salquecolcassë.” :: 13. Ar rincanen engë as i vala rimbë i meneldëa hossëo, laitala Eru ar quétala: :: 14. “Alcar i tarmenissen na Erun, ar cemendë rainë atanin pa i sanas mai.”

(Thank you, Helge Kåre Fauskanger at Ardalambion.)

- o0o -

And the texts from all the years gone by—2006, 2007, 2008, 2009, 2010—because, hey, comment threads.

Merry Christmas to all, and thank you for being here.

Comments on Texts, 2011:
#1 ::: Avram ::: (view all by) ::: December 25, 2011, 12:40 AM:

And a happy Feast Day of Saint Anastasia of Sirmium to you!

#2 ::: Teresa Nielsen Hayden ::: (view all by) ::: December 25, 2011, 12:40 AM:

Merry Christmas!

Sorry we're a few minutes late. This was scheduled to post at the stroke of midnight, but it somehow didn't, as we just now discovered when we got home from church.

#3 ::: Teresa Nielsen Hayden ::: (view all by) ::: December 25, 2011, 12:42 AM:

Avram, she got mentioned in tonight's list of saints.

#4 ::: MacAllister ::: (view all by) ::: December 25, 2011, 12:50 AM:

A very Merry Christmas, and may the coming year be full of warmth and light and joy.

#5 ::: Linkmeister ::: (view all by) ::: December 25, 2011, 01:02 AM:

Mele Kalikimaka to all from these small specks in the midst of a vast ocean.

#6 ::: thomas ::: (view all by) ::: December 25, 2011, 01:35 AM:

Now I've been here a year and can at least understand some words of it:

Luke 2:1-14, Te Reo Maori.

1 I aua ra ka whakatakotoria he tikanga e Hiha Akuhata kia tuhituhia te ao katoa. 2 Ko te tuhituhinga tuatahi tenei i meatia i te wa ko Kuirinia te kawana o Hiria. 3 A ka haere nga tangata katoa kia tuhituhia, ia tangata, ia tangata, ki tona ake pa. 4 I haere atu ano a Hohepa i Kariri, i te pa, i Nahareta, ki Huria, ki te pa o Rawiri, ko Peterehema te ingoa: no te mea no te whare ia, no te kawei o Rawiri: 5 Kia tuhituhia ai raua ko tana wahine taumau, ko Meri, e hapu ana ia. 6 A, i a raua i reira, ka rite nga ra e whanau ai ia. 7 Na ka whanau tana matamua, a takaia ana e ia ki nga kakahu, ka whakatakotoria ki te takotoranga kai ma nga kararehe; no te mea kahore he wahi mo ratou i te whare. 8 I taua wahi hoki etahi hepara e noho koraha ana, e tiaki ana i ta ratou kahui i te po. 9 Na tu ana tetahi anahera a te Ariki i o ratou taha, a whiti ana te kororia o te Ariki ki a ratou a tawhio noa; a nui whakaharahara to ratou wehi. 10 Na ka mea te anahera ki a ratou, Kaua e mataku: ta te mea he kaikauwhau tenei ahau ki a koutou mo te hari nui, meake puta mai ki te iwi katoa. 11 Nonaianei hoki i whanau ai he Kaiwhakaora mo koutou i te pa o Rawiri, ara a te Karaiti, te Ariki. 12 Ko te tohu tenei ki a koutou; E kite koutou i te tamaiti ka oti te takai ki te kakahu, e takoto ana i te takotoranga kai ma nga kararehe. 13 Na ohorere tonu ko tetahi ope nui o te rangi e tu tahi ana me taua anahera, e whakamoemiti ana ki te Atua, e mea ana, 14 Kia whai kororia te Atua i runga rawa, kia mau te rongo ki runga ki te whenua, me te whakaaro pai ki nga tangata.

#7 ::: Sisuile ::: (view all by) ::: December 25, 2011, 01:44 AM:

Merry Christmas, blessed Yule, happy Chanukah, usw. to one of the best communities on the web. Let the festival commence!

#8 ::: eric ::: (view all by) ::: December 25, 2011, 02:00 AM:

Merry Christmas! It's 11pm and the oldest kiddo is just asleep, the middle one has a cough and is restless, and the little one is out like a light. Hope that continues past 5:30am, as he's the early bird.

It will get better, someday.

#9 ::: Dave Bell ::: (view all by) ::: December 25, 2011, 02:06 AM:

A BBC Report on a translation of the New Testament into Jamaican patois. Not much quoted, but a fair bit about the politics of language. People saying snarky things about how it's not a proper language, despite it being the only language so many Jamaican kids have when they start school.

Abi, it sounds like your experience, with the added gutting knife of English being sneered at by the teachers, rather than being a respectable language.

I haven't yet found a downloadable text, but you can find audio files easily enough.

#10 ::: abi ::: (view all by) ::: December 25, 2011, 02:09 AM:

It's 8am and the kids aren't awake yet. The adults are getting restless, but we can't in all honor stay downstairs until they're awake. (Brief, deniable forays for quiet caffeine and laptops, however, have been undertaken.)

I said it in the Open Thread, and I say it again on this one: prettige feestdagen, allemaal. On a day to celebrate the coming of the light, I am glad, again and always, for the people who make it here.

#11 ::: Xopher HalfTongue ::: (view all by) ::: December 25, 2011, 02:20 AM:

I look forward to this every year. This year's variety of English(ish) texts is fascinating!

Dave 9: Funny how people only say something isn't a "proper language" when it's someone's NATIVE language if the people in question are people of color. Odd how that works.

There may be counterexamples. I'd love to hear about them.

#12 ::: praisegod barebones ::: (view all by) ::: December 25, 2011, 02:24 AM:

Happy Christmas!

People who like this may also like playing with
this

NB: appreciation of this cool toy for language geeks should not be taken as an endorsement of the organisation who provide it.

#13 ::: Xopher HalfTongue ::: (view all by) ::: December 25, 2011, 02:27 AM:

Also, here's a gorgeous, elaborate arrangement of Silent Night for, no kidding, seven violas.

If you hate the sound of a viola you will seven times hate this video. And also not be me; I love violas.

#14 ::: praisegod barebones ::: (view all by) ::: December 25, 2011, 02:41 AM:

Xopher @ 11 : I wouldn't be surprised there have been times when people have said it about Welsh, (which the English tried to eradicate at various times) and Irish Gaelic.1 (And I wonder what people say about non-Hochdeutsch versions of German.)

1. Citation needed.

#15 ::: Gray Woodland ::: (view all by) ::: December 25, 2011, 03:51 AM:

Hantalë!

Xopher @ 11, I always thought it was a regular nationalist trick, as per the famous saying about a language being a dialect with an army and a navy. Would a highly distinct Italian 'dialect' like Venetian be what you're looking for?

The legacy of the colonial and slaving eras then generates the full spectrum of lazy racist assumptions for free, like weevils effortlessly emerging from spoiled meal.

#16 ::: Steve with a book ::: (view all by) ::: December 25, 2011, 04:44 AM:

Xopher@11:

> There may be counterexamples. I'd love to hear about them.

Ulster Scots

#17 ::: Fragano Ledgister ::: (view all by) ::: December 25, 2011, 05:38 AM:

Dave Bell #9: I've been trying, without success so far, to get hold of a copy of the Gospel of Luke in Patwa. There's an audio version online.

To all: Compliments of the season.

#18 ::: Fragano Ledgister ::: (view all by) ::: December 25, 2011, 05:44 AM:

In Galego (Galician), my mother's native tongue, Luke 2: 1-14.

2:1 E aconteceu naqueles días que saíu un decreto de César Augusto, para que o mundo enteiro estaría matriculado.
2:2 Esta foi a primeira inscrición; foi feita polo gobernador de Siria, Quirino.
2:3 E todos ían ser declarado, cada un á súa propia cidade.
2:4 E José tamén subiu da Galilea, da cidade de Nazaret, na Xudea, para a cidade de David, chamada Belén, porque el era da casa e familia de David,
2:5 a fin de ser declarada, con María, súa esposa, que estaba embarazada.
2:6 Entón sucedeu que, mentres eles estaban alí, os días foron concluídas, de xeito que se daría a luz.
2:7 E deu a luz o seu fillo primoxénito. E ela implica o en panos eo deitou nunha manjedoura, porque non había lugar para eles na hospedaxe.
2:8 E alí foron os pastores, na mesma rexión, estar vixiantes e manter vixilia da noite sobre o seu rabaño.
2:9 E eis que, un anxo do Señor apareceu preto deles, eo brillo de Deus brillou arredor deles, e eles quedaron impresionados cun gran medo.
2:10 E o anxo lles dixo:: "Non teña medo. Para, manter, Eu vos anuncio unha gran alegría, que será para todo o pobo.
2:11 Para hoxe, un Salvador naceu para ti, na cidade de David: El é o Cristo Señor.
2:12 E iso será un sinal para ti: vai atopar o neno envolto en panos e deitado nunha pesebre ".
2:13 E, de súpeto, apareceu co anxo unha multitude do exército celeste, louvando a Deus e dicindo:,
2:14 "Gloria a Deus nas alturas, e paz na terra ós homes de boa vontade ".

#19 ::: Tim May ::: (view all by) ::: December 25, 2011, 06:23 AM:

#16: For that matter, regular Scots. In general I think people are reluctant to accept something as a proper language if it's closely related to a "proper language" they already know.

Of course, there's often a case to be made for calling these "dialects", but what has to be remembered is that it's not a matter of a "proper language" and a "dialect" which is a distorted derivative of it; rather, the prestige variety itself is equally a dialect of the language, and a sibling rather than a parent of the other.

Another example, of course, would be Yiddish - that's what "a shprakh iz a dialekt mit an armey un flot" is originally about. Ukrainian would be yet another.

#20 ::: Joris M ::: (view all by) ::: December 25, 2011, 06:25 AM:

Enjoy all these days!

While my region of birth (Twente) has it's own translation I cannot find it, so I'll substitute with the related Gronings (2008).

1 t Vuil veur in dij doagen, dat kaaizer Augustus bevel gaf om in zien haile riek n volkstellen te holden.
2 Dij volkstellen wer veur eerste keer holden dou Quirinius in Syrië regaaierde.
3 Dou ging elkenain aan raais om inschreven te worden, elk noar zien aigen stad tou.
4 Ook Jozef ging op pad, van Nazaret in Galilea noar Judea, noar stad van David dij Betlehem hait, omreden hai stamde oet t hoes en t geslacht van David,
5 om zok inschrieven te loaten mit Maria, doar e mit op traauwen ston en dij in verwachten was.
6 Dou ze doar touhuilen, was t zo wied.
7 Ze schonk t levent aan heur eerste zeun, won hom in douken en legde hom in n krub, omreden der was gain stee veur heur in haarbaarg.
8 Der wazzen hedders in dij aigenste kontrainen dij snaachts in t veld om beurten wacht huilen bie heur kudde.
9 Inains ston der n engel van de Heer bie heur. De Heer zien glorie stroalde om heur tou en ze werden slim benaauwd.
10 Dij engel zee tegen heur: "Wees mor nait baang. Ik kom ja mit n bliede bosschop dij t haile volk rakt.
11 Vandoag is Haailand veur joe geboren, Christus, de Heer, in stad van David.
12 En dit is n aanwies veur joe: ie zellen n potje vinden dij in douken wikkeld is en in n krub ligt."
13 En inains was doar bie dij aine engel n groot heerleger oet hemel.
14 Ze prezen God en zeden:
"Eer veur God in hoge hemel
en vrede in wereld veur mensken,
doar hai behoagen in het."

#21 ::: abi ::: (view all by) ::: December 25, 2011, 07:01 AM:

Speaking of dialects, Limburgs:

01 Noew gebuëhrden ’t in diej daag, dat va kehzer Augustus ‘t bevèèhl oehtgóng, dat in de gahnse bewóhnde welt een vohlkstèlling gehahwte moos wèèhre.
02 Dit woar de iësjte vohlkstèlling, wiej Quirinius goevernèùhr va Siëhrieje woar.
03 En allenej góhnge ze zich loaten isjriehve, jiëhdereehn i zien ehge sjtad.
04 En oohch Joëzef góng vanoet de sjtad Nahzaret i Galilèjja noa Juedèjja, noa de sjtad van David, diej Betlehem heehsj, ómdat hèèh oet ’t hoehs en ’t gesjlach van David woar,
05 óm zich te loaten isjriehve mit Maria, zie mèèdje, dat i verwachting woar.
06 En wiej ze doa woahre, woar ‘t zoëh, dat ziej ‘t kienjde kreeg, want hèùr daag woaren oehtgetèld,
07 en ze baarden hèùre zoëhn, den iësjgeboahrene, en ze dèj hèùm wèhnjelen óm en lag hèùm in ene krub, ómdat vuër huhn geen plaatsj woar in den hehrbehrg.
08 En doa woahren oohch sjiëpisj in dèèzellefde sjtriëhk; diej lohgen ‘t sjnachs i gevehljd en hóhlje de wach biej den trob sjèùp van huhnne.
09 En enen èhngel dès Hiëre keem biehj hun sjtoahn en de hiërlikheehd van den Hiër ómsjtroalde huhn, en ze woërte bang mit groëten angs.
10 En den èhngel zag tèèngen huhn: Zeet neet bang, want kik, es good nuejts brèng ich uch een groëte bliejdsjap, diej uëver gahns ‘t voohk zal kóhmme,
11 want huej is uch in de sjtad van David de redder geboahre, dèè de Christus, de Messias, is, den Hiër.
12 En dit zahl vuër uch ’t tehke zihnne: Ger zult ee kienjde vèhgne mit wèhnjelen óm en ligkend in ene krub.
13 En op eehmoahl woar biej den èhngel ee massaal lèèhger oet den hiëhmel, dat God priëhs en zag:
14 Iër aa God hiël hoëg in den hiëhmel en vrèj op de welt vuër de luej va gowwe wihlle.
15 En wiej de èhngele va biej dehn vandaan noa den hiëhmel woare gegahnge, gebuëhrden ‘t, dat de sjiëpisj tèèngen eeh zagte: Kómp, da góhnt ver noa Betlehem en kiehk ver wat dat is, wat doa gebuëhrd is en wat den Hiër ós bekènd hèèt gemak.
16 En ze sjpowde zich der hèèhr en vóhnge Maria en Joëzef en ’t kienjde, dat in de krub loog.
17 En wiej ze dathawwe geziëh, makde ze de wuërd bekènd, diej hun uëver dat kèhnjd gezag woare woëhre.
18 En alle luej diej dat hoëhrte, wóhnjerde zich uëver wat hun doër de sjiëpisj vertèld woëhrt.
19 En Maria bewaahrde diej wuërd allenej in hèùr hart en dach doa uëver noa.
20 En de sjiëpisj góngen truk, God verhiërlikend en priehzend vuër ahl wat ze hawwe gehuërd en geziëh, krek wiej ’t hun gezag woar woëhre.

#22 ::: abi ::: (view all by) ::: December 25, 2011, 07:32 AM:

And speaking of dialects and nightmares: Google Maps appears to have substituted Spanish place names for Catalan ones. This is an uncomfortable echo of the Franco years, when Spanish was imposed on Catalonia by force.

At first, Google blamed a third-party data supplier*; they've since said it's an internal fault. It looks like it's the product of global search-and-replaces, rather than plain dumb machine translation. According to Twitter, it's being fixed on Maps, but still occurs on StreetView.

----
* Full disclosure: the data supplier in question is TeleAtlas, owned by my employer, TomTom.

#23 ::: Teresa Nielsen Hayden ::: (view all by) ::: December 25, 2011, 07:40 AM:

Xopher: As has already been mentioned, Lallans and Ulster Scots, forever and ever. Appalachian English, too.

A century and a half ago, only about 5% of the residents of Italy spoke the language we call Italian, which is actually Tuscan. The others spoke languages that were/are at least as different from Tuscan as Fragano's text there is different from Spanish. The same thing happened in France, where Parisian French rolled over all the provincial languages; and I assume it also happened in Germany and other nation-states during the advent of railroads, mass literacy, and mass communications. A completely foreign language has its own problems, but a closely related language = UR DOIN IT RONG.

#24 ::: abi ::: (view all by) ::: December 25, 2011, 07:54 AM:

TNH @23:
The same thing happened in France, where Parisian French rolled over all the provincial languages; and I assume it also happened in Germany and other nation-states during the advent of railroads, mass literacy, and mass communications.

Standard Dutch crystallized in the early 1600's, a generation or so after the Spanish took Antwerp and drove many of the city's residents north to Amsterdam. The combination of Amsterdam's Hollands and the Antwerp refugees' Brabants led to the Bible translation of 1618, which could be understood by pretty much everyone in the then-Dutch Republic.

#25 ::: Tim May ::: (view all by) ::: December 25, 2011, 08:11 AM:

Oh, and since I've been studying Georgian lately, გილოცავთ შობას!*

Luke 2:1-14 in Old Georgian, in what I believe is the 11th century translation of Giorgi Mtats'mendeli**. From here, where it's presented with a facing translation in modern Georgian.

და იყო მათ დღეთა შინა გამოჴდა ბრძანებაჲ აგჳსტოს კეისრისაგან აღწერად ყოვლისა სოფლისა. ესე აღწერაჲ პირველი იყო მთავრობასა ასურეთს კჳრინესსა. და წარვიდოდეს ყოველნი აღწერად კაცად-კაცადი თჳსსა ქალაქსა. აღმოვიდა იოსებცა გალილეაჲთ, ქალაქით ნაზარეთით, ჰურიასტანად, ქალაქად დავითისა, რომელსა ჰრქჳან ბეთლემ, რამეთუ იყო იგი სახლისაგან და ტომისა დავითისა, აღწერად მარიამის თანა, რომელი მოთხოვილ იყო მისა, და იყო იგი მიდგომილ. და იყო ვიდრე იყვნესღა იგინი მუნ, აღივსნეს დღენი იგი შობისა მისისანი. და შვა ძე იგი მისი პირმშოჲ და შეხჳა იგი სახუევლითა და მიაწვინა იგი ბაგასა, რამეთუ არა იყო მათა ადგილ სავანესა მას.

და მწყემსნი იყვნეს მასვე სოფელსა, ველთა დგებოდეს და ჴუმილვიდეს საჴუმილავსა ღამისასა სამწყოსოსა მათსა. და აჰა ანგელოზი უფლისაჲ დაადგრა მათ ზედა, და დიდებაჲ უფლისაჲ გამოუბრწყინდა მათ, და შეეშინა მათ შიშითა დიდითა. და ჰრქუა მათ ანგელოზმან მან უფლისამან: ნუ გეშინინ, რამეთუ აჰა ესერა გახარებ თქუენ სიხარულსა დიდსა, რომელი იყოს ყოვლისა ერისა: რამეთუ იშვა დღეს თქუენდა მაცხოვარი, რომელ არს ქრისტე უფალი, ქალაქსა დავითისსა. და ესე იყოს თქუენდა სასწაულად: ჰპოოთ ყრმაჲ იგი შეხუეული და მწოლარე ბაგასა. და მეყსეულად იყო ანგელოზისა მის თანა სიმრავლე ერთა ცისათაჲ, აქებდეს ღმერთსა და იტყოდეს: დიდებაჲ მაღალთა შინა ღმერთსა, და ქუეყანასა ზედა მშჳდობაჲ, და კაცთა შორის სათნოებაჲ.

(Not that I, halfway through a beginner's textbook on the modern language, can do more than pick out a few words of the above.)

*Although the Georgian Orthodox Church celebrates Christmas in January, and the main focus for secular celebration seems to be the new year.

**I mean, presumably he'd have written it in khutsuri rather than mkhedruli, but copying & pasting it in the modern*** script is both way less work than trying to transcribe it into one I can't read, and more likely to actually show up on your screen.

***Well, relatively modern. It includes a few letters no longer used today.

#26 ::: TexAnne ::: (view all by) ::: December 25, 2011, 08:46 AM:

Xopher, 11: Not the usual sort of counterexample: Kreyol is now taught as a foreign language in NYC public schools. The delay was caused by a (state, IIRC) definition of "language" as "something that has textbooks." So as soon as somebody wrote a textbook, they started letting heritage speakers learn it in school.

Hope for the world, I has it.

#27 ::: Melissa Mead ::: (view all by) ::: December 25, 2011, 08:55 AM:

Merry Christmas!

#28 ::: Fragano Ledgister ::: (view all by) ::: December 25, 2011, 09:16 AM:

TNH #23: Because Galicia is in Spain, and the language in standard written form does resemble Castillian a bit, a fair number of people assume that Galego is a dialect of Spanish. It isn't. Galego is a variant form of Portuguese.

#29 ::: xeger ::: (view all by) ::: December 25, 2011, 09:17 AM:

Merry Christmas!

#30 ::: Melissa Singer ::: (view all by) ::: December 25, 2011, 09:18 AM:

May your day be merry and bright!

#31 ::: Debbie ::: (view all by) ::: December 25, 2011, 09:36 AM:

auf Schwäbisch:
1 S' isch in derra Zeit gwäa, wo dr Kaiser Augustus a Gsetz gmacht hot: Älle Leit auf dr ganza Welt sollat sich in Lischda eitraga lassa!
2 A sodda Volkszählung hat's no nia vorher gäbba. Ond des isch zu derra Zeit gewäa, wo dr Quirinius Statthalter vo Syiria gwäa isch.
3 Jedermoa isch also losganga, sich aufschreiba z'lassa; a jeder in sei Hoimatstädtle..
4 Dr David isch vo Bethlehem hergwäa. Ond weil dr Joseph an Ur-ur-ur ... - Enkel vom David gwäa isch, no isch er aufbrocha von Nazareth in Galiläa noch Bethlehem in Judäa.
5 Do hat er sich eischreiba lassa müassa, z'samme mit seim jonga Weib Maria, die wo scho bald a Kendle erwartet hot.
6 Wo se in Bethlehem waret, isch's so weit gwäa. Maria hat ihr erschtes Kend auf d' Welt brocht, an Bua.
7 In Windla hot se'n gwickelt ond em Stall in a Kripple neiglegt. Weil im Gaschthaus, do hend se
koi Plätzle ond koi Kammer meh g'het.
8 Dussa auf'm Feld hend a paar Hirta auf ihre Schof aufpasst.
9 Ganz pletzlich isch do an Engel zu ihne komma. Lauter göttlichs Licht war om se rom. Do hend se Angscht kriegt ond send verschrocka,
10 aber der Engel hot g'sait: „Hend koi Angscht! I breng uich d' allergräaschte Freid fir älle Menscha:
11 Heit isch fir uich en'm David seim Schdädtle dr Heiland auf'd Welt komma, uf den mr scho so lang
gwartet hot. S isch dr Messias, dr Herrgott selber.
12 Ond an dem werrat'r säha, daß des d'Wohrat isch: Des Kendle leiht e'ma Fuatrkripple ond isch in
Windla gwickelt.
13 Uff oimol waret do lauter Engel om se rom. Dui hen Gott g'lobt ond gsonga:
14 „Ähre sei Gott in dr Hehe ond Frieda uf dr Welt bei älle Menscha, dia ehm sei Wohlgfalle g'fonda hen."

Merry Christmas, everyone!

#32 ::: Teresa Nielsen Hayden ::: (view all by) ::: December 25, 2011, 09:37 AM:

Abi: So that's when it happened. That's less top-down than a lot of other examples.

Fragano: I went and listened to the first chapter of Luke in Jamaican patois/Patwa/Jamic. It was fascinating. I'm embarrassed now for all the times I've said "Jamaican might as well be another language."

I haven't listened to it, but the whole Christmas story is supposedly available here. The site also has an audio dictionary, a sparse member-generated written dictionary, some children's stories which are also audio files, and a collection of "Patois articles," all of which are in English.

I'm figuring out what you must already know: the Bible in Jamaican patois isn't just a translation project. They're having to invent Jamaican as a written language. Maybe we'll have the text in time for next year.

I just now managed to do something I've been trying to remember for ages, which is to add a version in Kreyol Aisyen to the main list. As usual, it fascinates me: yon zanj Bondye parèt, "an angel of the lord appeared." I know Bondye -- Bon dieu -- from my time at St. Augustine, likewise that Haitian preserves the archaic English yon; but zanj, angel, singular? My wild guess is that les anges turned into le zanj, in the same way that English turned a napron into an apron.

#33 ::: Fragano Ledgister ::: (view all by) ::: December 25, 2011, 10:02 AM:

TNH #32: There's a standard written form of Patwa, the Cassidy orthography, developed by the Jamaican-American dialectologist Frederick Cassidy (author of Jamaica Talk, a superb study of the language, and co-editor with Robert LePage, of the Dictionary of Jamaican English). That's becoming, gradually normative. Dat a fi se di propa way fi rait don how di piipl dem chat dem chat.

The difficulty is that the Cassidy orthography isn't yet familiar to most people outside the academy (though its advocates are having some success), and to people used to the norms of standard International English, it seems odd or even barbaric. Advocates of the traditional approach of rendering Patwa in writing would have given the last sentence of the previous paragraph as 'Dat a fe seh de proper way fe write down how de people dem chat dem chat'. That's more comprehensible to an English-speaker, but doesn't get across the rhythm or flow of the words unless you know them already. An advocate of the Cassidy orthography, like Carolyn Cooper of the University of the West Indies, calls the traditional approach 'di mixop sistim'.

#34 ::: Teresa Nielsen Hayden ::: (view all by) ::: December 25, 2011, 10:05 AM:

Abi @21: For me, the version in Limburgs produces the usual "language in the Netherlands" effect, which is a mixture of the nearly transparent (sjiëp, sheep) with the utterly opaque: Zeet neet bang, want kik.

Fragano @27: Huh. I did think it looked a lot like Portuguese -- all those x's.

#35 ::: Lila ::: (view all by) ::: December 25, 2011, 10:34 AM:

Xopher @ #13: Lovely! I myself do not care for the organ, but as it was Bach's favorite instrument I recognize this as a problem with me, not the organ.

I happen to like violas, but for those who don't: Mozart played the viola. 'Nuff said.

Back on the main topic: the Wôpanâak Language Reclamation Project uses as one of its sources the translation of the Bible into Wôpanâak by John Eliot (1663). If you ever run across the documentary "We Still Live Here/Âs Nutayuneân", take the time to watch it.

#36 ::: Rikibeth ::: (view all by) ::: December 25, 2011, 10:45 AM:

abi @22: I am certain you can imagine the gist of the grumbling that Stephen Maturin is making in the back of my head. Spanish instead of Catalan, for all love!

#37 ::: Heather Rose Jones ::: (view all by) ::: December 25, 2011, 10:46 AM:

Re: Praisegod @ 14 re: Xopher @ 11

I wouldn't be surprised there have been times when people have said it about Welsh

See, e.g., Brad y Llyfrau Gleision

#38 ::: Steve with a book ::: (view all by) ::: December 25, 2011, 10:49 AM:

Tim May@25: I've always thought that's a lovely alphabet, one of the prettiest in Unicode.

(Everyone raise a glass to the Unicode Consortium!)

#39 ::: B. Durbin ::: (view all by) ::: December 25, 2011, 10:55 AM:

I'm probably not the best person to ask about what is a language, because I'm married to a man who insists that Chaucer is modern English. I'll only go so far as to say that Elizabethan English is modern, barring the slang.

#40 ::: Rikibeth ::: (view all by) ::: December 25, 2011, 10:59 AM:

B. Durbin: And even much of the slang is still comprehensible. Once a dick joke, always a dick joke!

#41 ::: Erunno Alcarinollo ::: (view all by) ::: December 25, 2011, 11:33 AM:

f y rd Lk 2:8 whr t spks bt th shphrds n th fld wth thr flck, y wll clrly BVSLY knw fr fct tht Jss wsn't brn n Dc., 25th...s th shphrds NVR VR spnt tm wth thr flcks n th tsd drng th HRSH WNTR f srl! Tht wld b nnsns.

ls, dcr lk tht (n rdr t ppl rgstr thmslvs n thr hmtwns) wld b slss drng WNTR TM whr ppl tndd t trvl lss. Nt nly wld b mprctcl bt ls wld str p mr nmsty btwn th ppl nd thr Rmn gvrnrs.

ND...f th brthdy f Jss ws mnt t b clbrtd, 'm rlly sr thr wld b t lst N vnt dscrbd n th Bbl, whr Jss clbrtd t wth hs dscpls. Hw mny r thr? ZR!

S... dn't ndrstnd HW ppl wh ftr hv rd ths prtclr vrss f th Bbl n svrl lnggs vlbl hr...stll sy "Mrry Chrstms". Sch pgn nn-bblcl fstvl shld nt b ssctd t ll wth Chrst.

Ds t mk sns?

#42 ::: Lila ::: (view all by) ::: December 25, 2011, 11:46 AM:

Erunno: I'm so sorry our theologically, calendrically and agriculturally incorrect merriment is annoying to you. I hope you find a more congenial place to spend the day.

#43 ::: geekosaur ::: (view all by) ::: December 25, 2011, 12:19 PM:

Not to mention that the harshest that winter gets in Israel is heavy rain. Unless you're climbing the mountains, it doesn't get particularly cold.

#44 ::: abi ::: (view all by) ::: December 25, 2011, 12:31 PM:

Erunno @41:

Did you really search through the internet for people having fun in order to drop that little rant on them? Or are you a lurker who has somehow decided to make your debut in the community with that nugget of Scroogishness?

What was the point of so doing? Did you think to persuade with such a tone? Or are you just playing the timeless game of Holier than Thou on the internet*?

Does it make sense?

Since we're not Biblical literalists, yes it does.

Those of us here who are Christians are celebrating the mystery of the Incarnation, at the point in the year in which it is natural to rejoice in the coming of Light† into the world. If all of those things: the Incarnation, the turning of the year, and the bodies calibrated to notice it, are from God, then surely it is suitable to celebrate them, even if other people of other faiths do so as well.

(I don't expect an answer. You clearly weren't interested in having a conversation.)

-----
* In which case, please consider Matthew 6:5-6
† John 8:12

#45 ::: Dave Bell ::: (view all by) ::: December 25, 2011, 12:52 PM:

Or, as the sweet-toothed sheep might put it, "Baa! Humbug!"

#46 ::: John Mark Ockerbloom ::: (view all by) ::: December 25, 2011, 01:31 PM:

Besides the whole coming-of-the-light thing (and the pre-existing holidays around that time) apparently there's another reason Christians followed a December date for Christ's nativity (instead of sometime in the spring, which was also proposed by some early Christians). According to this Biblical Arachaelogical Review article, there was an early Christian tradition that held that the conception and Passion of Jesus were on the same day of the year (in late March, hence the nativity in late December). The article links this to Jewish traditions recorded in the Talmud of shared dates for creation and redemption.

It's not clear whether this tradition for Christmas predates the idea of a solstice or Roman-festival overlay, and I don't know how seriously scholars as a whole take this idea as an explanation for the date. But it's an interesting idea, and not one I'd heard previously.

#47 ::: Bruce E. Durocher II ::: (view all by) ::: December 25, 2011, 01:45 PM:

Abi: based on his website he's a Quenya groupie, which means that in all likelihood he did a search to further his obsession and hit Luke 2:1-14 in Quenya courtesy of Making Light's Googlejuice. (Several analogies to flies present themselves at this time, but I will dismiss them as best as I can. I find Klingon Language fans less uptight than Elvish Language fans, which tends to shade my opinions on the subject.) If you want him back again, I'd suggest either posting the manual for a 1928 Fordson F in Quenya or run whatever the most popular piece of lengthy text in Quenya is through The Encheferizer.

#48 ::: Lizzy L ::: (view all by) ::: December 25, 2011, 01:50 PM:

Trolls we have always with us.

Midnight Mass at my parish last night was joyful and triumphant, and (because the parish is majority Filipino-American) included Philippine carols. In keeping with the ML tradition, here is Luke 2:1-14 in Tagalog.

2:1 Nangyari nga nang mga araw na yaon na lumabas ang isang utos mula kay Augusto Cesar, na magpatala ang buong sanglibutan.

2:2 Ito ang unang talaang-mamamayan na ginawa nang si Quirinio ay gobernador sa Siria.

2:3 At nagsisiparoon ang lahat upang sila'y mangatala, bawa't isa sa kaniyang sariling bayan.

2:4 At si Jose naman ay umahon mula sa Galilea, mula sa bayan ng Nazaret, hanggang sa Judea, sa bayan ni David, na kung tawagi'y Bet-lehem, sapagka't siya'y sa angkan at sa lahi ni David;

2:5 Upang patala siya pati ni Maria, na magaasawa sa kaniya, na kasalukuyang kagampan.

2:6 At nangyari, samantalang sila'y nangaroroon, at naganap ang mga kaarawang dapat siyang manganak.

2:7 At kaniyang ipinanganak ang panganay niyang anak na lalake; at ito'y binalot niya ng mga lampin, at inihiga sa isang pasabsaban, sapagka't wala nang lugar para sa kanila sa tuluyan.

2:8 At may mga pastor ng tupa sa lupain ding yaon na nangasa parang, na pinagpupuyatan sa gabi ang kanilang kawan.

2:9 At tumayo sa tabi nila ang isang anghel ng Panginoon, at ang kaluwalhatian ng Panginoon ay nagliwanag sa palibot nila: at sila'y totoong nangatakot.

2:10 At sinabi sa kanila ng anghel, Huwag kayong mangatakot; sapagka't narito, dinadalhan ko kayo ng mabubuting balita ng malaking kagalakan, na siyang sasa buong bayan:

2:11 Sapagka't ipinanganak sa inyo ngayon sa bayan ni David ang isang Tagapagligtas, na siya ang Cristo ang Panginoon.

2:12 At ito ang sa inyo'y magiging pinakatanda: Masusumpungan ninyo ang isang sanggol na nababalot ng lampin, at nakahiga sa isang pasabsaban.

2:13 At biglang nakisama sa anghel ang isang karamihang hukbo ng langit, na nangagpupuri sa Dios, at nangagsasabi:

2:14 Luwalhati sa Dios sa kataastaasan, At sa lupa'y kapayapaan sa mga taong kinalulugdan niya.

Peace on earth, joy to the world, and may God bless us, every one!

#49 ::: Lee ::: (view all by) ::: December 25, 2011, 02:15 PM:

abi, #22: FYI (and anyone else who might be interested), TeleAtlas was also the producer of the latest mapset for Magellan, which was absolutely riddled with errors and absurdities -- we had to revert back to the previous set. I think they're just plain incompetent.

#50 ::: abi ::: (view all by) ::: December 25, 2011, 02:18 PM:

Well, then, consider me informed.

#51 ::: B. Durbin ::: (view all by) ::: December 25, 2011, 02:24 PM:

Erunno may have been trying to be sarcastic; see "harsh winters of Israel." According to trip-planning sites, the average December low in Bethlehem is in the mid-30s; at worst it wouldn't have been more than five degrees different two millennia ago. So yeah, sucky to spend outside, but nowhere near impossible, especially if you're sleeping next to a large wooly animal. Travel would also be perfectly do-able, if not the most congenial. We do tend to get a bit spoiled in our modern age and forget that our ancestors would probably look on us as wimps in many ways. ;)

Almost all of our snow associations with Christmas come from northern Europe. Obviously, the weather is not much the same in the Middle East.

#52 ::: Teresa Nielsen Hayden ::: (view all by) ::: December 25, 2011, 02:26 PM:

What a strange and un-Tolkienish universe it is where trolls speak Quenya.

#53 ::: Linkmeister ::: (view all by) ::: December 25, 2011, 02:38 PM:

1839 edition of the translation of Luke 2 1-14 by missionaries into Hawaiian (Note: I am not competent enough in the language to tell if line 14 ends where the story ends in other translations):

1 EIA kekahi mea ia mau la, hoolahaia'e la ke kauoha a Kaisara Augusato, e kakauia i ka palapala ko ke aupuni a pau.
2 I ke alii kiaaina ana o Kurenio ma Suria, ka hoomaka ana o keia kakau mua ana.
3 Pau no i ka hele i kakauia'i i ka palapala o keia mea kela mea i kona kulanakauhale iho.
4 O Iosepa kekahi i hele ae, mai Galilaia ae, mailoko mai o Nazareta ke kulanakauhale a hiki Iudaia, i ko Davida kulanakauhale i kapaia o Betelehema, (no ka mea, na ka hale ia a me ka ohana a Davida,)
5 I kakauia'i me Maria ka wahine i hoopalauia nana, e koko ana.
6 A oiai laua malaila, hiki kona manawa e hanau ai.
7 Hanau iho la oia i kana makahiapo kane; wahi iho la ia ia i ke kapa keiki, a hoomoe iho la ia ia ma kahi hanai holoholona, no ka mea, aole wahi kaawale no lakou maloko o ka hale hookipa.
8 ¶ Aia i kela aina he mau kahuhipa e noho ana i ke kula a e kiai ana i ka lakou poe hipa i ka po.
9 Aia hoi! Kau mai la ka anela a ka Haku io lakou la, a hoomalamalama mai la ka nani o ka Haku ia lakou a puni, a makau loa iho la lakou.
10 A olelo mai la ka anela ia lakou, Mai makau oukou, no ka mea, eia hoi, ke hai aku nei au ia oukou i ka mea maikai, e olioli nui ai e lilo ana no na kanaka a pau.
11 No ka mea, i keia la i hanau ai, ma ke kulanakauhale o Davida, he Ola no oukou, oia ka Mesia ka Haku.
12 Eia hoi ka hoailona no oukou, e loaa auanei ia oukou ke keiki ua wahiia i ke kapa keiki e moe ana ma kahi hanai holoholona.
13 A emo ole mai la ka lehulehu o ka puali o ka lani me ua anela la, e hoolea ana i ke Akua, e olelo ana,
14 E hoonaniia ke Akua ma na lani kiekie loa, A he malu hoi ma ka honua; He aloha no i kanaka.

#54 ::: Fragano Ledgister ::: (view all by) ::: December 25, 2011, 02:58 PM:

TNH #52: I'd be truly alarmed if the trolls spoke Valinorean.

#55 ::: Fragano Ledgister ::: (view all by) ::: December 25, 2011, 03:07 PM:

By the bye, the Beeb did this story today.

#56 ::: Teresa Nielsen Hayden ::: (view all by) ::: December 25, 2011, 03:44 PM:

Lee @49: Bit tactless there? Not to mention I don't see the point of it, since Abi began by mentioning their fallibility.

B. Durbin: If sheep were all that susceptible to hypothermia, there'd be a lot less wool in places like Britain, Scandinavia, and Iceland.

Israel's climate isn't completely alien to me. Midwinter is cool and relatively wet, so I expect it sees some of their best grazing of the year. Tourist guides say you'll need a coat, but probably won't wear it every day. Citrus is a major export of the region. I can read that. Nights aren't comfortable, but they're doable if, like sheep and shepherds, you're wearing wool.

Erunno's assertion that "BVSLY ... th shphrds NVR VR spnt tm wth thr flcks drng th HRSH WNTR f Israel!" is bllsht. It's their summers that are harsh.

There are a few fundamentalists out there who've actually read and thought about the Bible, but Erunno isn't one of them.

#57 ::: thomas ::: (view all by) ::: December 25, 2011, 03:59 PM:

Linkmeister: yes, that's the same as one of the two standard chunks, up to "goodwill toward men".

It looks as though formal Hawaiian is less purist about the spelling of imported words than formal Reo Maori (compare Rawiri and Davida, Peterehema and Betelehema).


#58 ::: mjfgates ::: (view all by) ::: December 25, 2011, 04:06 PM:

Whatsis-obnoxio-face @41 caused me to contemplate a disemvowelled version of Luke, but it seems disrespectful. The notion did lead to a question, though: what do you normally do with the letter "y" when disemvowelling? Kill them all, leave them all, or try to parse out which ones are consonants and which are vowels?

#59 ::: Dean Gahlon ::: (view all by) ::: December 25, 2011, 04:08 PM:

From Tjukurpa Palya (The Bible in Pitjantjatjara):

1. Ka nyara palula aṟangka wati ini Tjiitja Ukatjanya mayatja puka nyinangi ngura panya ini Rome-ala munu ngura winki mulapa mayatjangku tjunguṟa kanyiningi Israelnga kuḻu. Wati nyanga paluṟu mayatja uwankarangka wangkapai, kaya wangaṉarangku kulilpai palula. Ka Johnnga iṯi nyinanyangka mayatja nyara paluṟu aṉangu winki kantamilantjikitja mukuringangi, munu tjananya unwankara wituningi ngura uwankaranguṟu ankula ngura walytjangka walytjangka ini nyiringka walkatjunkunytjaku.

2. Ka nyara palula aṟanka wati panya ini Kuṟiniyatjanya ngura Tjiṟiyaku mayatja nyinangi.

3. Kaya ngura uwankaranguṟu aṉangu winki ngura walytjakutu walytjakutu anangi tjanampa tjamuku ngurakutu ini tjanampa nyiringka walkatjunkunytjikitja.

4. Ka Josephanya ngura Nazarethala nyinangi munu uḻpaṟiralku ma-pakaṉu tawunu walytjakutu ngura ini Bethlehemalakutu, panya ngaṉmanypa mulapa palumpa tjamu Davidanya iṯi ngaringu ngura nyara palula, ka palulakutu paluṟu anu ini walkatjunkunytjikitja.

5. Munu katingu Mary-nya panya palunya kalkuntjatjanungku. Ka Mary-nya paku puḻka nyinangi munu ngaṉmanypa tjuni puḻkaringu.

6. Munu paluṟu pula Bethlehemala wirkanu, ka Mary-nya tjuni iniringu.

7. Munu paluṟu iṯi katja kuwari kutju ngurpangku kanyinu, munu mantarangka karpiṟa pantja-pantjangka ngaritjunu piti ngaṯingka. Piti nyara paluṟu panya pulaka tjuṯaku munu tjiipi tjuṯaku mai tjunkupai ngalkunytjaku. Tjinguṟu pula waḻingka payamilaṟa tjarpanyangka iṯi wirkanama, palu aṉangu winkingku ngaṉmanypa tjarpara waḻi uwankara angaṉu, ka palulanguṟu pulampa ngura wiya ngaṟangi waḻi unngu ngarinytjaku, ka pula tjulypinytja ngaringu pulukaku ngurangka.

8. Ka ngura nyara palula itingka tawunungka uṟilta wati tjapata tjuṯangku tjiipi tjuṯa aṯunymaṟa kanyingingi mungangka.

9. Ka Mayatjaku angelpa utiringu tjanala munu pitalytji puḻka mulatu tjananya irnyaṟa kanyingingi. Kaya urulyaraṟa puḻkaṟa nguḻuringu.

10. Palu angeltu palula tjanala wangkangu, "Nguḻuringkunytja wiyangkuya kulinma. Ngayuluṉa pitjangu nurala tjukurpa wiṟu mulapa tjakultjunkunytjikitja aṉangu uwankaraku, kaya kuliṟa uwankara puḻkaṟa pukiḻariku.

11. Kuwari nyanga Mayatja Davidaku nurangka iṯi wirkanu nyuranya wankaṟunkunytjikitja panya Christanya Mayatjanya.

12. Ka nyura ankula ngurila munu nyawa iṯi nyara palunya mantarangka karpintja puluka tjuṯaku mai ngaripaingka ngarinyangka. Alatji ngarinyangka nyakula nyura kulilku, 'Munta, nyangatja iṯi panya paluṟu.' "

13. Ka angelpa paluṟu wangkara wiyaringkunyangka maḻangka algelpa kutjupa tjuṯa mungilyi mulapa ilkaṟinguṟu ukalingkula palula tjunguringkula tjungungku inma inkara Godanya waḻkuningki alatji wangkara.

14. "Godanya wiṟu mulapa nyara ilkaṟingka nyinanytja panya. Kayanku mantangka nyanga aṉangu Godala kulilpai uwankara kurunpa pukuḻpa nyinama."

#60 ::: abi ::: (view all by) ::: December 25, 2011, 04:12 PM:

mfgates @58:

what do you normally do with the letter "y" when disemvowelling? Kill them all, leave them all, or try to parse out which ones are consonants and which are vowels?

Practice varies. I differentiate; it's not that difficult, but it's time-consuming. Looking at the text above, Teresa (who, I believe, was at the controls of the Disemvoweler*) left them all in.

-----
* Actually, she wasn't; the rest of us need a device, but TNH can kill vowels with her mind. But we pretend otherwise.

#61 ::: Linkmeister ::: (view all by) ::: December 25, 2011, 04:25 PM:

thomas @ #57, Hawaiian is really flexible about importation of words, names or otherwise. There's no such thing as the Academie Francaise for it.

Here's a side-by-side comparison of Luke from the 1839 edition to the 1994 edition. A cursory look doesn't show much difference between the two passages to me.

Hawaiian pidgin is a whole 'nother ball of wax. It's all about the bending of words, even when "fun" is the only reason to do so.

#62 ::: Steve with a book ::: (view all by) ::: December 25, 2011, 04:44 PM:

Is all of the English-speaking RC world now on the latest revision of the liturgy? ISTRT in England and Wales we were supposed to get it at the start of Advent.

(interested enough in these things to be concerned about the revision, but not to actually turn up to Mass—I'm a bog-standard poor-Catholic cliché from Central Casting)

#63 ::: Teresa Nielsen Hayden ::: (view all by) ::: December 25, 2011, 04:44 PM:

mjfgates @58, my practice is to leave y's in, even the ones that are functioning as vowels, because removing those will sometimes break the readability of disemvowelled text, and I think it's important that it be readable.

Why does it sometimes break? I don't know yet. It's got to have something to do with individual diction, because you don't usually see one post out of several by the same writer breaking, or staying legible. I keep procrastinating on figuring it out because doing so is bound to be tricky, the answer is unlikely to be interesting in its own right, and I already know the important part, which is the effect it has.

#64 ::: Teresa Nielsen Hayden ::: (view all by) ::: December 25, 2011, 04:50 PM:

Steve with a book: I think we've all changed over, or are supposed to have done so.

One of the priests at Elise's parish in Minneapolis has been referring to it as the Roman missal crisis. After a couple of services where I was having to juggle three documents -- St. Boniface hands out sheet music along with the order of service, and to this was added the cheat sheet for the new liturgical responses -- I started referring to it as Mass Mass Revolution.

#65 ::: thomas ::: (view all by) ::: December 25, 2011, 05:03 PM:

Linkmeister: Hawaiian is really flexible about importation of words, names or otherwise

Te Reo Maori is one of the three* official languages here, so there are official written spellings. I think imported words are used pretty flexibly in spoken language, but a fairly large fraction of writing is more-or-less official and imported words get a standard transliteration applied.


* NZ sign language

#66 ::: thomas ::: (view all by) ::: December 25, 2011, 05:12 PM:

Teresa, Steve with a book.

Everyone was supposed to change over on the first Sunday of Advent, and mostly they did. New Zealand was delayed by printing problems. The Eucharistic prayers were printed on heavier paper, because they get used more, but the binding wasn't done right, so the books wouldn't lie flat when opened. D'Oh.

#67 ::: elise ::: (view all by) ::: December 25, 2011, 05:12 PM:

Steve with a book @62: As TNH said, my parish has been working with it for a little while now. What I personally find hilarious is that the changes in some cases are much closer to the (strict, old-fashioned) Lutheran liturgy I grew up with, so I'm more likely to get them right than some of the other parts of the Mass. Well, OK, except for the archaic bits. Which I miss, personally, but there ya go. (I quoted some of the bits I grew up with to T, and she agreed that "meet, right and salutary" is a fine phrase.)

Listening to the discussions about when changes in language provide a useful small startlement has been interesting.

#68 ::: P J Evans ::: (view all by) ::: December 25, 2011, 06:34 PM:

56
I'd expect the climate to be something like the Sierra foothills, or the area east of SF bay, across the first range of hills. You can grow citrus, and you can also get snow, sometimes in measurable amounts. (It's called a Mediterranean climate, but I understand it's actually drier in the summer than most of the Mediterranean.)

#69 ::: John Mark Ockerbloom ::: (view all by) ::: December 25, 2011, 07:45 PM:

"What I personally find hilarious is that the changes in some cases are much closer to the (strict, old-fashioned) Lutheran liturgy I grew up with, so I'm more likely to get them right than some of the other parts of the Mass. Well, OK, except for the archaic bits..."

Yes; I see that in our choir with the "And with your spirit" change. Most of us younger folks are still working at not slipping into "And also with you" at those points, but a few older members say they're tending to slip into "And with *thy* spirit".

This year our pastor decided to use John in all the Christmas masses so he could prepare one homily on that gospel for all of the Masses. I like John's gospel as well, but I've grown accustomed to hearing Luke at midnight, and missed hearing it this year.

#70 ::: Xopher HalfTongue ::: (view all by) ::: December 25, 2011, 08:03 PM:

Let me modify my statement. When someone claims that a language is "not a real language," it's usually a cover for some other prejudice.

About Erunno: This thread is about the traditional celebration of Christmas, and about the text that describes the events as described in the Gospel in question.

I believe it is a fact that shepherds don't abide with their sheep in the fields during the rainy season, and there's other internal evidence that the events described took place at a time closer to August of 4 BCE, and that would account for the Magi (astrologers) coming too. BUT the point is that's irrelevant to this discussion.

#71 ::: Erunno Alcarinollo ::: (view all by) ::: December 25, 2011, 09:56 PM:

Just something to read. If you are truly a Christian (PS: I AM NOT) you would be interested in following Christ and what is written in the Holy Scriptures, right???

"Was Jesus Born on December 25?

The custom: According to tradition, Jesus’ birth took place on December 25 and is celebrated on that date. “Christmas,” says the Encyclopedia of Religion, means “‘Christ’s Mass,’ that is, the mass celebrating the feast of Christ’s nativity,” or birth.

Its roots: “The establishment of December 25 evolved not from biblical precedent,” says The Christmas Encyclopedia, “but from pagan Roman festivals held at year’s end,” about the time of the winter solstice in the Northern Hemisphere. Those festivals included the Saturnalia, in honor of Saturn, god of agriculture, “and the combined festivals of two sun gods, the Roman Sol and the Persian Mithra,” says the same encyclopedia. Both birthdays were celebrated on December 25, the winter solstice according to the Julian calendar.

Those pagan festivals began to be “Christianized” in the year 350, when Pope Julius I declared December 25 to be Christ’s birthday. “The Nativity gradually absorbed or supplanted all other solstice rites,” says the Encyclopedia of Religion. “Solar imagery came increasingly to be used to portray the risen Christ (who was also called Sol Invictus), and the old solar disk . . . became the halo of Christian saints.”

What the Bible says: The Bible does not give Jesus’ birth date. But we can safely conclude that he was not born on December 25. How so? The Bible tells us that when Jesus was born, shepherds were “living out of doors” tending their flocks at night in the vicinity of Bethlehem. (Luke 2:8) The cold, rainy season usually began in October, and shepherds—especially in the colder highlands, such as those around Bethlehem—brought their sheep into protected shelters at night. The coldest weather, sometimes accompanied by snow, occurred in December.

Significantly, the early Christians, many of whom had accompanied Jesus in his ministry, never celebrated his birth on any date. Rather, in harmony with his command, they commemorated only his death. (Luke 22:17-20; 1 Corinthians 11:23-26) Still, some may say, ‘Does the pagan connection really matter?’ The answer? It does to God. “The true worshipers will worship the Father with spirit and truth,” said Jesus Christ.—John 4:23."

So...I'm not making things up from my own creative mind. If you wanna see the truth, you will. If you don't wanna...I wish you a Happy Saturnalia """christians""".

#72 ::: B. Durbin ::: (view all by) ::: December 25, 2011, 11:48 PM:

P J Evans: I live in Sacramento, and to give you an idea we can go for five months without any measurable rainfall and consider it normal. It took me a while to adjust to the concept that in most of the country, people's lawns grew green in the summer naturally and not as the result of sprinkler systems.

You'll hear about California's "drought" quite often. It usually gets overlooked that "drought" is closer to the natural state of being and last winter's rainfall that continued into spring was highly unusual and did weird things to the tomato plants.

(Sacramento has either two seasons—Summer and Sprawl—or three—Summer, Fog, and Allergy—depending on who you ask. I also submit that there is another way to designate the year: Tomato Season. Which is not eleven months long, no matter what the locals want to believe.)

So yes, the temperature breakdown of Bethlehem looks very familiar to me. As do the photographs of the Iraqi foothills, for that matter.

#73 ::: Walter Jon Williams ::: (view all by) ::: December 26, 2011, 12:15 AM:

And this from the Swedish Chef, courtesy of the Encheferizer:

1Und it ceme-a tu pess in thuse-a deys, thet zeere-a vent oooot a decree-a frum Ceeser Oogoostoos thet ell zee vurld shuoold be-a texed.

2(Und thees texeeng ves furst mede-a vhee Cyreneeoos ves gufernur ooff Syreea.)

3Und ell vent tu be-a texed, ifery oone-a intu hees oovn ceety.

4Und Juseph elsu vent up frum Geleelee-a, oooot ooff zee ceety ooff Nezeret, intu Joodeea, untu zee ceety ooff Defeed, vheech is celled Bethlehem; (becoose-a he-a ves ooff zee huoose-a und leeneege-a ooff Defeed:)

5Tu be-a texed veet Mery hees ispuoosed veeffe-a, beeeng greet veet cheeld.

6Und su it ves, thet, vheele-a zeey vere-a zeere-a, zee deys vere-a eccumpleeshed thet she-a shuoold be-a deleefered.

7Und she-a bruooght furt her furstburn sun, und vrepped heem in sveddleeng cluzees, und leeed heem in a munger; becoose-a zeere-a ves nu ruum fur zeem in zee inn.

8Und zeere-a vere-a in zee seme-a cuoontry shepherds ebeeding in zee feeeld, keepeeng vetch oofer zeeur fluck by neeght.

9Und, lu, zee ungel ooff zee Lurd ceme-a upun zeem, und zee glury ooff zee Lurd shune-a ruoond ebuoot zeem: und zeey vere-a sure-a effreeed.

10Und zee ungel seeed untu zeem, Feer nut: fur, behuld, I breeng yuoo guud teedings ooff greet juy, vheech shell be-a tu ell peuple-a.

11Fur untu yuoo is burn thees dey in zee ceety ooff Defeed a Sefeeuoor, vheech is Chreest zee Lurd.

#74 ::: P J Evans ::: (view all by) ::: December 26, 2011, 12:46 AM:

71
Surely this season is 'fog' - I look in, every day or so, via the I-5 webcams at Medford Fuel: there's one on a TV tower at the north end of the city, you can see a bit of river, sometimes, with the I street bridge, and on a good day, the mountain way off to the southwest. Lately there's been a lot of no-visibility gray.

(I grew up in the bay area; my brother lives in Davis. I was reading a paper on the native perennial grasses vs the imported annual grasses.)

#75 ::: James D. Macdonald ::: (view all by) ::: December 26, 2011, 02:24 AM:

Hello again, Erunno Alcarinollo (#71).

You're making quite a number of assumptions there, mostly unwarranted. The reactions here, you'll find, will range from "So what?" to "Old news," to "Ho-hum."

As the Catholic Encyclopedia says, "...there is no month in the year to which respectable authorities have not assigned Christ's birth."

Your argument is, essentially, that "admiral" could not possibly be an English word because it derives from the Arabic "emir-al." That would be a foolish argument when applied to English. It's an equally foolish argument when applied to holidays.

(Incidentally, the Catholic Encyclopedia goes on to say, "The origin of Christmas should not be sought in the Saturnalia...." I recommend the entire article to you: You might learn something.)

#76 ::: KayTei ::: (view all by) ::: December 26, 2011, 03:29 AM:

B. Durbin @ 71

I usually credit Sacramento with Summer, Drop, and Drown (where Drown is optional, depending on the weather's mood in a given year).

I agree that Cali is, in general, drier than other locations, and I agree that the drought conversations we've had over the last ten or fifteen years seem to be more about water management and conservation than actual weather pattern deviation. But I'll also note that when we finally started getting rain again when I was in high school (in Chico, in the nineties), I had trouble adjusting to rain that fell more often than twice or three times per year, for more than one to three days at a time, between approximately Thanksgiving and early January.* California has had real droughts, even when compared only with itself...


* I was excited to be able to give up two-inch baths and five minute showers -- there was an ongoing controversy among the students at my school about whether you could fill a bath more than two inches with a five minute shower, and whether that justified variance from the general rule.

#77 ::: Teresa Nielsen Hayden ::: (view all by) ::: December 26, 2011, 03:54 AM:

Erunno @71:

Just something to read. If you are truly a Christian (PS: I AM NOT) you would be interested in following Christ and what is written in the Holy Scriptures, right???
Ahhh. You have no background in religion, but you've found out about the existence of this minor, elementary, and substantially irrelevant argument, and you think we're therefore obliged to listen to you and find you interesting.

We aren't, and we don't.

If you're honestly interested in the subject, I suggest you follow Jim Macdonald's advice about where to read up on it. I'll be pleasantly surprised if you do. (Note: My saying that should not be taken to mean that we'll thereafter feel obliged to listen to what you have to say on the subject.)

#78 ::: praisegod barebones ::: (view all by) ::: December 26, 2011, 04:09 AM:

Heather Rose Jones @ 37: I think that may have been something that was at the back of my mind, and the Welsh Not certainly was (I've vague memories of reading about both in Gwyn Thomas 'When was Wales' twenty years ago or so.)

(Having said that, I was interested to notice from the Wikipedia article how early it was (1888) that Welsh became used as an officially recognised language of education in the UK: I have the impression that France was doing much worse things to its regional languages for much longer.)

#79 ::: KayTei ::: (view all by) ::: December 26, 2011, 04:20 AM:

Errunno @ 71

Oh, I dunno. I kinda like the version of truth where self-identification is left up to the individual. I mean, I'd never cast aspersions on someone I didn't know, simply because they elected (apparently uncritically) to extensively block-quote a single source of questionable academic merit in a misguided and probably fallacious appeal to authority. Not only would that be out-of-season uncharitable, I would probably be mistaken in coming to such a hasty conclusion on the basis of very little extended evidence.

Likewise, I would suggest that you may wish to consider whether you might have been a trifle overhasty in evaluating "what it is to behave in a Christian manner," "what it is to behave in a way consistent with the (Christian) Bible," and "who these 'Christians' are to whom you are speaking in this particular forum (Making Light)." These are weighty matters, and each question could provide basis for considerable debate. As such, I believe that your awkward attempt to force the Christian members of this community to make a false* choice between being "bad Christians" and accepting your conclusions about the origin of their holiday is, again, misguided, and misses the opportunity to have an actually interesting discussion on any of the above topics, which you so casually overglanced in your apparent rush to condemn.

But I hope your Christmas was very merry anyway, as well as any other days you've had recently or plan to have in future. Or even any days that you don't plan to have, but end up having anyway, as these things can sometimes be unpredictable.


*Not to mention shallow and uninteresting.

#80 ::: Paul A. ::: (view all by) ::: December 26, 2011, 04:28 AM:

In our parish (in Australia), we changed over in two stages; the first stage, consisting more or less of the bits on the congregation crib sheets, happened a few weeks before the rest followed on the first Sunday of Advent.

The congregations' responses at all the Christmas masses[1] had an underlying rumble of old words that may have been due to people who hadn't set foot in a church since before the changeover. It was particularly noticeable on the response to "Let us give thanks to the Lord our God", because the old version of the response goes on quite a bit longer than the new one.

Our parish priest balanced John Mark Ockerbloom's pastor by using the Luke in all the masses so he could do a homily on the nativity. (Though actually quite a bit of it was about the wise men and the star; he wanted to get in some topical references to Comet Lovejoy before it was too late.)

----
[1] Except the evening mass, which had a tiny congregation that, according to the priest when we were chatting afterward, included at least one person who professed to have come out of consideration for the priest's feelings in the event of being faced with no congregation at all. (It was the usual Sunday evening mass time, but we don't usually have a Christmas Day evening mass.) Most of the people there not only weren't coming for the first time since the changeover, they weren't coming for the first time that day.

#81 ::: P J Evans ::: (view all by) ::: December 26, 2011, 10:53 AM:

76
If they get really serious about water management during a drought: five gallon bucket, use a quart (or maybe three pints) of boiling water to two or three gallons of cold. Use it Japanese-style, with a plastic cup to dip and pour. It isn't as good as a shower, but it's good enough.
(I did this when the water heater at one apartment complex crapped out and they needed a week to get it repaired.)

#82 ::: Steve with a book ::: (view all by) ::: December 26, 2011, 11:31 AM:

A useful summary of changes (previous English, new English, Latin) is here (PDF). I'm of the generation that never knew the Latin mass yet has a certain nostalgia for it in the same way one has a nostalgia for steam trains and pre-decimal currency that one never saw either. (My mother was of the generation that had had the Tridentine mass absolutely drilled into her at Catholic schools, and was clearly embarrassed and unhappy in the vernacular mass—I never heard her give a single response).

Alan Bennett, talking about the Book of Common Prayer's replacement with the Alternative Service Book, quotes someone to the effect: Have a revolution, sure, but after that, don't change anything for 50 years. That is, if you are going to have a big change, beware of getting addicted to fiddling with things for ever after. On general grounds of community ownership, the mass belongs to those who, unlike me, tend to turn up more than once every few years, so I have no honest grounds for complaint, but I still feel a slight pang of being left behind by changes that make me want to mumble Well If You Want To Stick That Closely To The Meaning Of The Latin You Might As Well Just Stick With The Latin.

#83 ::: Bruce E. Durocher II ::: (view all by) ::: December 26, 2011, 11:52 AM:

Why do I suddenly have the urge to go to every website I can find and post Quenya = Santorum?

#84 ::: Xopher HalfTongue ::: (view all by) ::: December 26, 2011, 12:07 PM:

Please don't, Bruce. There are plenty of people who love Quenya, would be offended by that, and would never do what our current subpontic visitor has done.

#85 ::: fidelio ::: (view all by) ::: December 26, 2011, 12:12 PM:

I think St. Stephen will forgive me for putting this up in his day, and I hope the rest of you will as well:

Lok 2:1 Giipagami'ayaamagat apii iniw giizhigon, iw gii'onjimaajishkaanig iw otinaakonigewin aw Kaisar Augustus, kakina dash imaa miziwe gaatanakijig jimiigiwewaat iniw zhoonyaan.
2 (Miidash o'o miinitiwin nitam giiozhijigaadeg megwaa giiogimaawiwit aw Sirenios imaa Siriiya.)
3 Kakina dash giimiigiwewaat enashipaat imaa tetibinaawe ototenawiwang.
4 Josap dash gaye wiin giionjimaajaa imaa Galiliing, imaa iw odenaang Nazaret, giizhaat iwidi Joodiiya, ototenaawi aw Debid, Bethlehem ezhinikaadeg, (gaye wiin maa ogiiogitiziminan iniw Debidan,)
5 Giiwiijiwaat iniw Meriian wiiwan, iw gii'aawimigiwewaat iniw zhoonyaan, iw megwaa gii'otaabinoojiimit.
6 Giipagami'ayaamagat dash megwaa imaa ayaat, iniw giizhigon ogii'otisigonan iw jiniigi'aawazot.
7 Ogiiniigi'aan dash iniw nitam gaaogwiisijin, giiwiweginaat dash imaa waabishkiginong, giipagidinaat dash imaa endashiwiisininit iniw awaakaanan, kaa maa ningoji giinatesiinoon iw abinaasowin imaa ashangewigamigong.
8 Gii'ayaawag dash imaa tanakiwining igiw maanishtaanishiwininiwag, ayaawaat imaa kitigaaning, ganaawenimaawaat, gaye ganaawaabamaawaat omaanishtaanishimiwaan tibigatinik.
9 Inaa dash iniw otaanishinaabeman aw Tebeninget ogiipagamishkaagowaan, iw dash obishigendaagoziwin aw Tebeninget giisaagaateni imaa giiwitayii ayaawaat; gaye dash giikichisegiziwaat.
10 Iniw dash ishpiming tazhianishinaaben ogiigowaan, Kego wiin segizikegon. Inaa, kibitibaajimotoninim wenishishingin inaajimowinan, iw kichionaanigoziwin igiw kakina bemaatizijig oganoondaanaawaa.
11 Kiinawaa wenjiniigit o'o nongom giizhigak imaa ototenaawing aw Debid, gebimaaji'iwet, aw Krist, aw Tebeninget.
12 Miisa dash o'o geokikinaawaajijiganiyeg; kigamikaawaawaa aw abinoojii wiiweginiigaazot imaa waabishkiginong, abit imaa endashiwiisiniwaat igiw awaakaanag.
13 Sesikaa dash aw ishpiming tazhi anishinaabe ogiiwiijayaawigon iniw kichimaamaawinoonijin ishpiming gaaonjibaanijin, nagamotaawaanit iniw Kishemaniton, gaye giikitonit,
14 Maano takichitaawendaagozi sa aw Kishemanito eshpe ndagozit, gaye omaa akiing pizaaniiwewin, gaye iw shaawenjigewin taminaawag igiw anishinaabeg.
15 Giipagami'ayaamagat idash, apii igiw ishpiming tazhi anishinaabeg gamaajaawaat inakaken ishpiming, igiw maanishtaanishiwininiwag giigaganoonitiwag, Haw, ambe sa izhaataa iwidi Betleheming jiwaabindamang o'o pegamishkaamagak, aw Tebeninget gaakikendamoninang.
16 Miidash giianiwewibishkaawaat, giimiikaawaat iniw Merii'an, gaye Josapan, gaye iniw abinooji'an shingishininit imaa edashi wiisiniwaat igiw awaakaanag.
17 Apii dash gaawaabindamowaat, giikikendamozhi'iwewag iniw ikitowinan gaainintwaa, giitazhimint aw abinoojii.
18 Kakina dash igiw gaanoondangig giimaamaakaadendamog, iw gaaikitowaat igiw maanishtaanishiwininiwag.
19 Meriii dash wiin ogiiganaawendaanan kakina ono ayiin, giiatot dash imaa odeing.
20 Igiw dash maanishtaanishiwininiwag giikiiwewag maamoyawamaawaat iniw Kishemaniton, onji kakina iniw ayiin gaa'izhinoondamowaat gaye gaa'izhiwaabindamowaat, iw gaa'inintwaa.

(from an 1884 translation of the New Testament into Anishinaabemowin, the constellation of dialects used by the Ojibwa, Chippewa, and their relations. The main website has a great deal of information about the language in its various forms, for those of you wanting to know more. It's one of the most-used Native American languages in both the US and Canada.)

#86 ::: Ken MacLeod ::: (view all by) ::: December 26, 2011, 12:59 PM:

I've had a great Christmas - but Making Light, as always, makes it complete. All the best to all!

#87 ::: Roy G. Ovrebo ::: (view all by) ::: December 26, 2011, 03:30 PM:

When it comes to the "not a real language" thing, I can't resist pointing out the confusing mess that is written Norwegian. Two official written forms, a couple of unofficial ones and lots of controversy.

God jul to everybody!

#88 ::: praisegod barebones ::: (view all by) ::: December 27, 2011, 02:10 PM:

For those who want something that definitely isn't a real language, there's always the Lolcat version of Luke 2.

#89 ::: Lizzy L ::: (view all by) ::: December 27, 2011, 02:44 PM:

praisegod barebones, thank you for that link. I had forgotten what fun the lolcat Luke 2 is. "And suddenly, moar angels!"

Joy to the world, kittehs! Srsly!

#90 ::: Laina ::: (view all by) ::: December 27, 2011, 02:51 PM:

A belated Merry Christmas to all. I spent Christmas at Mom's where I have no Internet, so I'm chiming in a little late.

#91 ::: JO'N ::: (view all by) ::: December 27, 2011, 03:04 PM:

A modern Irish translation of Luke 2:1-14, from An Bíobla Naofa (1981):

(1) Tharla sna laethanta sin go ndeachaigh forógra amach ó Chéasar Agust an domhan uileachlárú. (2) B'é seo an chéad chlárú a rinneadh nuair a bhí Cuiríon ina ghobharnóir ar an tSuír. (3) Agus chuaigh cách chun a gcláraithe, gach aon duine go dtí a chathair féin. (4) Agus chuaigh Iósaef freisin suas ón nGailíl, ó chathair Nazarat, go hIúdáia, go dtí cathair Dháiví ar a nglaotar Beithil, de bhrí gur de theaghlach agus de threabhchas Dháiví é féin, (5) chun a chláraithe mar aon le Muire, a bhean chéile, a bhí ag iompar clainne. (6) Agus tharla, le linn dóibh bheith ann, gur tháinig a hionú, (7) agus rug sí a céadghin mic, agus chuir i gcrios ceangail é, agus shín i mainséar é, de bhrí nach raibh slí dóibh san ósta. (8) Agus bhí aoirí sa taobh tíre céanna, amuigh faoin spéir, ag faireacháin oíche i mbun a dtréada. (9) Agus sheas aingeal an Tiarna láimh leo, agus shoilsigh glóir an Tiarna ina dtimpeall, agus bhí uamhan agus eagla mhór orthu. (10) Agus dúirt an t-aingeal leo: "Ná bíodh eagla oraibh: óir féach, tá dea-scéala agam daoibh a chuirfidh áthas mór ar an bpobal uile: (11) rugadh Slánaitheoir daoibh inniu -- is é Críost an Tiarna é -- i gcathair Dháiví. (12) Agus is comhartha daoibh é seo: gheobhaidh sibh naíonán i gcrios ceangail agus é ina luí i mainséar." (13) Agus bhí go tobann, mar aon leis an aingeal, cuallacht de shlua na bhflaitheas ag moladh Dé agus ag rá: (14) "Glóir do Dhia in uachtar neimhe, agus síocháin ar talamh don mhuintir ar a bhfuil a ghnaoi!"

#92 ::: Jules ::: (view all by) ::: December 27, 2011, 06:56 PM:

Erunno @71 -- You'll probably struggle to find a community who knows the pagan precedents of christian worship better than the people here. We're a mixture of christians, atheists and pagans, generally with an above-average interest in history, particularly of religion.

Which is why we, generally speaking, don't care about inconsistencies in the story of Christ's birth. The simple fact is that this story is widely understood to be a later fabrication -- note that the gospel of Mark, generally understood to be the oldest source, does not include it. Other gospels added the story later in an attempt to agree with pre-existing prophecy. The fact that your reading of it points to a birth in spring does not have any real significance, as the story provides no real evidence one way or another for anything that may or may not have actually occurred.

#93 ::: Thena ::: (view all by) ::: December 27, 2011, 10:18 PM:

@88/89

And yet... we read it, and laugh at it, and know what is being said and also why it's funny....

... so is it not real language? (Having a philosophical moment instead of doing something useful.)

#94 ::: Heather Rose Jones ::: (view all by) ::: December 27, 2011, 11:18 PM:

Thena @ 93 (re: Lol-speech)

Furthermore, it is possible to evaluate LOL-speech in terms of being better and worse examples of the genre. (Some of the LOL-Bible is clearly more idiomatic than other parts.) Given long enough and a sufficiently invested and practicing community and you will end up with an official Grammar of LOL setting forth correct and incorrect usage.

#95 ::: praisegod barebones ::: (view all by) ::: December 28, 2011, 01:54 AM:

Thena@93, Heather Rose Jones@94

I'm trying to figure out why I don't think that LOLcat is a language, and lots of the things I've come up with don't work. (Eg, 'primarily written rather than spoken';'no-one has it as a mother-tongue'). But I guess the reason I think it doesn't qualify as a 'real' language is that people's undestanding of it is almost always parasitic on their understanding of English.

It feels as though there ought to be a technical term for that kind of thing (and maybe there is: IANALinguist). I think that cockney rhyming slang might fall into the same category.

#96 ::: Bill Stewart ::: (view all by) ::: December 28, 2011, 02:43 AM:

I grew up Methodist, so I find the modern English-language Catholic liturgy confusing, since it was translated a couple centuries later than the Episcopalian versions that the Methodists use when they're being liturgical. And apparently the Episcopalians have been borrowing back from the Catholics lately? (My one data point is a funeral for my uncle, who was Episcopalian.)

This year we went to an English-speaking service for Christmas eve. A year or two ago we went to the local Methodist church, and found they were running a combined service with their English+ASL congregation and their somewhat larger Fijian-language congregation (and found that the reason the Fijian choir sounded African was that the choir director was from South Africa.)

#97 ::: Dave Bell ::: (view all by) ::: December 28, 2011, 06:45 AM:

On LOLcat:

I'm sure Ive seen, somewhere, an academic paper which was presented at some conference. As I recall, it was looking at LOLcat with the tools of linguistics and effectively saying, "Here it is, happening where we can watch it happen. Interesting..."

LOLcat isn't just a vocabulary, so I doubt you could call it a jargon. It doesn't really fit with any of the classifications I come across, such as argot or slang. But it isn't really a language distinct from English. Maybe it's sitting somewhere between standard English and Jamaican patwa. And maybe that's where it was sitting, until somebody started waving a laser pointer around.

But it is something that linguists can talk about.

#98 ::: Madeley ::: (view all by) ::: December 28, 2011, 07:07 AM:

Heather Rose Jones @ 37

My personal favourite quote from the Blue Books is "The Welsh language is a vast drawback to Wales, and a manifold barrier to the moral progress and commercial prosperity of the people. It is not easy to over-estimate its evil effects."

There's Government equivocation for you.

#99 ::: Ingvar M ::: (view all by) ::: December 28, 2011, 07:47 AM:

Quiet weekend, all things considered. Good food was eaten, the pager was blessedly quiet (not silent, but all in all not very much of an interrupt). I hope those of you who celebrated any sort of holiday had a good one.

#100 ::: Carrie S. ::: (view all by) ::: December 28, 2011, 11:07 AM:

It doesn't really fit with any of the classifications I come across, such as argot or slang. But it isn't really a language distinct from English.

I've seen it referred to as "Catois".

#101 ::: Heather Rose Jones ::: (view all by) ::: December 28, 2011, 11:09 AM:

Praisegod @95 re: LOL-speak

To be clear, I'm not at all claiming that LOL-speak "is a language" or even on its way to becoming a language -- just that, linguistically speaking, it has certain language-like characteristics. In particular, as Dave notes (@97), it doesn't simply consist of vocabulary elements or word-play. Some of the aspects that, for me, make the difference between whether I consider something "good LOL-speak" or not have to do with grammatical constructions and syntax.

I'm also fascinated by the way that -- especially in the early evolution of the genre -- a clearly identifiable set of cultural themes evolved, with the equivalent of a folklore/mythology (or perhaps, a classical literature) which users regularly alluded to or invoked.

#102 ::: Joris M ::: (view all by) ::: December 28, 2011, 07:27 PM:

Dave @97

A link to a presentation on LOLspeak has featured on boingboing. The presenters were of the opinion that it is language play more than a proper language.

link to the post

#103 ::: B. Durbin ::: (view all by) ::: December 31, 2011, 12:03 AM:

I had heard that one of the reasons that Mark doesn't have a birth story for Jesus is that they didn't consider it important, as in "look at what he did and said and how he died; leave prophetic births to other folks." This fits with the fact that Christmas is not one of the two High Holy Days of Christianity (Easter and Pentecost.) I don't know why they started adding that in later, though it could just be a return to the norm for the people writing it (they went back to the sorts of narrative tropes they were comfortable with.)

#104 ::: little pink beast ::: (view all by) ::: December 31, 2011, 05:25 PM:

So I'm curious. The Anglo-Saxon has "heriendra", and Wycliffe's has "heriynge" (and I'm guessing that the Gothic "hazjandane", Swedish "härskaran", and Nederlandse "verheerlijkende" are distant relatives), all about where modern English uses "praising" or "glorifying". By the time of Tyndale and Coverdale, though, it's "laudyng", and I can't think of any cognates in modern English. So, two questions.

Did anything using that root make it into modern English?
and
Is it related to the German "Herr", or is it a different root, or what?

#105 ::: geekosaur ::: (view all by) ::: December 31, 2011, 08:30 PM:

Now I'm wondering if this relates to "hooray"/"hurrah"/(apparently) "huzza".

Interestingly, the Mac's dictionary is suggesting to me that there is a related word in ME to that OE root, albeit with shifted meaning: the verb "harry" is reported to be from "Old English herian, hergian, of Germanic origin".

#106 ::: little pink beast ::: (view all by) ::: December 31, 2011, 09:54 PM:

Actually, looking at it more closely, I think "härskaran" is a noun rather than a verb - something like "host" or "army". Anyone who speaks Swedish is, of course, free to correct me, or even to spin me all sorts of tall tales that will leave me confused for years. Pretty sure still that the others are verbs, though.

I thought of "harry", but dismissed it as a false cognate because I couldn't figure out any reasonable path. It'd be neat if it were, though!

#107 ::: geekosaur ::: (view all by) ::: December 31, 2011, 10:12 PM:

little pink beast @106:
My immediate thought was "...d*mn paparazzi". Seems a reasonable enough path from "accolade" through "overdoing it" to "harassment". In fact, the example in the dictionary I checked hints strongly at this derivation IMO, via one of our "favorite" social/interpersonal mis-interactions: "• persistently harass: he bought the house for Jenny, whom he harries into marriage."

#108 ::: little pink beast ::: (view all by) ::: December 31, 2011, 11:58 PM:

geekosaur@107: oh, interesting! That could very well be it, then. I had always figured "harry" was related to "harrow", but that derivation makes sense, too!

#109 ::: Debbie ::: (view all by) ::: January 01, 2012, 05:51 AM:

little pink beast, you're right about 'harry' and 'harrow'.

There are three modern German words that sound similar, but have different origins: Heer, Herr, and herrlich.

According to my Duden*,

Heer = army, related to the military. "himmlische Heerscharen" = heavenly hosts, so the connotations aren't entirely negative. However, the verb "verheeren" = to destroy, plunder, lay waste. These words are related to the English "to harry" and "to harrow", and to old-Icelandic 'herja' = to raid or plunder, and Swedish 'här'. The common origin appears to be the indogermanic 'koro-s' = war, conflict.

Herr = lord, master, ruler, which comes from Old High German 'hēriro' = older, more venerable (a comparative which became a noun).

herrlich = magnificent, glorious. 'Verherrlichen' = to glorify. Interestingly, Duden notes that the word is related to 'Herr', but somewhat indirectly. The true, mostly forgotten origin of both Herr and herrlich seems to be in 'hehr' (noble, sublime, holy). 'Hehr' in turn is related to words in English (hoar, hoary) and other languages that all go back to words meaning gray and implying something venerable, worthy of respect.

*Bd. 7, Das Herkunftswörterbuch

#110 ::: Debbie ::: (view all by) ::: January 01, 2012, 05:54 AM:

I've been gnomed! (And while I'm at it, I just learned that the word gnome was coined by Paracelsus and means kobold, dwarf or earth spirit -- but no one knows why he came up with the word, or where it's from.)

#111 ::: Mary Aileen ::: (view all by) ::: January 01, 2012, 09:54 AM:

Debbie (109): Fascinating. Thanks for looking that up.

#112 ::: geekosaur ::: (view all by) ::: January 01, 2012, 11:07 AM:

Interesting. (Sadly I no longer have access to the references I used to.) So, just confusingly close.

#113 ::: little pink beast ::: (view all by) ::: January 01, 2012, 02:01 PM:

Debbie@109: Oh, that is fascinating! I never would have guessed "hoary" was related. Thank you!

#114 ::: Ingvar M ::: (view all by) ::: January 03, 2012, 06:57 AM:

little pink beast @ #104-#106
debbie @ #109

The word "härskaran" is the singular determined form of the compound noun "härskara", composed of two words, "här" (roughly 'army') and "skara" (roughly, 'crowd'). Swedish normally doesn't have a definite article, instead using suffixes for that purpose (although it does have indefinite articles).

So, yeah, "en stor hop av den himmelska härskaran" is, roughly, saying 'a large crowd of the heavenly angelic army'.

As far as the Swedish equivalents of `heer`, `Herr` and `herrlich`, they're "här" (also, confusingly, meaning 'here') "herr" and "härlig".

#115 ::: pedantic peasant ::: (view all by) ::: January 05, 2012, 02:15 PM:

little pink beast @ 104:

I'm not positive, but I'd say "laudable" probably shares roots with "laudyng," and that both "hearken" and "harangue" are likely related to that whole "heriendra" family.

Choose:
Smaller type (our default)
Larger type
Even larger type, with serifs

Dire legal notice
Making Light copyright 2001, 2002, 2003, 2004, 2005, 2006, 2007, 2008, 2009, 2010, 2011, 2012, 2013, 2014 by Patrick & Teresa Nielsen Hayden. All rights reserved.