Our anonymous traitorous troll posted from 70.24.177.46
Actually your troll appears to be from Canada, so he's not traitorous (to your country anyway). I, however, have my doubts about his loyalty and value to my country. It's embarrassing to be associated with people like this.
Oh, and if anyone in Canada (esp. Toronto/GTA or Vancouver) knows of a job for a physicist/programmer (Java, Smalltalk, C[++], multimedia, would like to do wireless) who doesn't want to wait for Massachusetts to join the United States of Canada....
You could check out the University of Waterloo. I have no idea what kind of programming jobs they have right now, but I've seen postings there in the past.
Also, there are a lot of spin-off businesses around the Uni. They seem to be hiring all the time. Pretty high-tech area, what with the Uni, the Perimeter Institute and all the tech companies in the area.
It's not too far from Toronto, either.
Laura Roberts said:
Question: are there any collections containing a significant number of stories by various Making Light posters?
Because if there's not, you know, there should be.
Hmm. A Making Light anthology. I think I'd enjoy it. It would be an interesting collection.
A society exists only to protect it's citizenry.
I believe the point has been made that a society does not have to have institutionalised murder in order to protect its citizenry.
sometimes I think everyone must be out of their minds... because sane human beings could not possibly believe what is being spouted
I often think that very thing, but I suspect that I don't apply it to the same people that you do.
You know... I think I see the problem in the discussion about mistletoe. People seem to be confusing American mistletoe (Phoradendron villosum) with European mistletoe (Viscum album). Although they're both called mistletoe, they're not even the same species, as you can probably tell from the latin names.
American mistletoe is (potentially) very toxic and shouldn't be taken orally. European mistletoe (obviously the species used by the Romans, Celts, Greeks, etc.) is not nearly as toxic, and has been used medicinally for at least 2000 years. In that length of time, if every patient who took it got poisoned, you'd think somebody would have noticed.
Jonathan, in your manual make sure you tell your followers to get a clue and make sure they're eating the RIGHT frickin' plant.
Xopher, do you think you can get more information from your anthropologist friend? I'd really like to read up on this some more. Don't discount everything he said, just because one person objects. She might not be aware of the sources he had access to. :-)
From the sounds of it, it might not be that hard to find evidence of TB among the celts, if they had it. TB can leave visible signs on the bones of the sufferer. It's just a matter of digging up the information.
Oops! I didn't notice that Lori had already posted that link about tuberculosis. Sorry for double posting it.
Jo Walton - Actually Pliny does name a couple of uses that the Druids had for it. He specifically states that it was given to animals that were sterile, and also that it was believed to be an antidote against all poisons.
I think if you reread my original post, my point was that we don't know for sure. True, Xopher hasn’t presented any convincing evidence that the Druids did definitely use mistletoe to treat TB. But you haven’t presented anything which would allow me to categorically state that they didn’t. I’m willing to consider that they might have used mistletoe for such a purpose, given that it was referred to as an ‘all healing’ plant, and was greatly venerated.
Rikibeth quotes modern herbal uses of mistletoe as a medicine for epilepsy. Maybe they used it for that, though you'd think that Caesar, as an epileptic himself, would have found that interesting enough to note. We at least know that epilepsy existed at the time -- which we don't about TB, which is a disease that may well have come along later. There's no evidence for the existence of TB in antiquity.
And my objection to modern writers saying that druids used mistletoe berries to cure cancer is that it's a) not true b) not a belief of the time, it's modern twaddle c) real people with cancer are often desperate enough to try anything, and offering them a false poisoned hope seems to me to be evil.
First off, there is evidence of the existence of TB in antiquity: "Mycobacterium tuberculosis has infected humans for thousands of years. Fragments of the spinal column from Egyptian mummies from 2400 BCE have been found that show definite pathological signs of tubercular decay." (http://www.goshen.edu/bio/Biol206/Biol206LabProject/tricia/Tbhx.html)
On to the rest... Yes, Rikibeth was referring to modern sources. I was not. Again, according to Pliny the Elder, mistletoe was used to treat tumours, epilepsy and ulcers, among other things. (He makes no mention of the success of these treatments, only that mistletoe was used). It’s not entirely modern twaddle, it’s antiquated twaddle.
Furthermore, as I stated, cancer researchers are studying the efficacy of mistletoe in treating cancer today. Maybe I’m an unrealistic idealist, but I believe that they’re unlikely to waste their time researching something that is clearly not going to work. This leads me to think that it might not be twaddle at all.
Jo Walton - In the absence of Xopher's sources, I would have to say that it might be more accurate to state that 'The Druids thought mistletoe could heal all things'. Or at least there is reason to believe that they used it to treat a wide variety of ailments:
“The mistletoe, however, is but rarely found upon the robur; and when found, is gathered with rites replete with religious awe. This is done more particularly on the fifth day of the moon, the day which is the beginning of their months and years, as also of their ages, which, with them, are but thirty years. This day they select because the moon, though not yet in the middle of her course, has already considerable power and influence; and they call her by a name which signifies, in their language, the all-healing.”
- Pliny the Elder, The Natural History (eds. H.T. Riley, Esq., B.A., John Bostock, M.D., F.R.S.)
Mistletoe was one of only three (Celtic) medicinal plants named by Pliny the Elder, so I think it's quite plausible that they used it to treat tuberculosis along with many other common illnesses (even though modern sources say not to use it on patients with TB).
As for the comment about mistletoe being used to cure cancer… Mistletoe was used by the ancients to treat a wide variety of illnesses and disorders, including cancer. Whether or not it was an effective treatment, I couldn’t say, but I’d venture to guess that it was no worse than many other treatments of the time. In fact, modern cancer researchers are looking at its effectiveness in treating cancer, so I’m guessing there’s something about it that is potentially useful.
Anybody who reads a story that mentions use of mistletoe, foxglove, or a plethora of other plants which are poisonous, but were used in medical treatments, should really do some research on how they were used and how they’re being used now, before trying them out. Maybe there are people who are stupid enough to experiment on their own and get themselves killed. In fact, I’m sure there are, but it seems a bit unreasonable to me to get angry at an author for including information like that when it was an accepted treatment at the time.
Mistletoe was sacred to a great many people, it seems. Since before the time of the ancient Greeks, it was believed to have mystical powers. It was believed to do everything from extinguish fires, to ward off evil spirits and witches.
The word mistletoe comes from the Anglo-Saxon words 'mistel' and 'tan', and means 'dung on a twig'. It got the name because of an ancient belief that it was propagated from bird droppings (which in turn is based on the belief that life could spontaneously spring from dung). Interestingly, botanists discovered that the plant was propagated by birds who ate the seeds, and then spread the seeds in their droppings. Those ancient folk knew more than we think sometimes.
Although the berries are poisonous (to humans at least) mistletoe was believed to be an antidote to poison. Go figure.
Kissing under the mistletoe comes from the ancient Greek festival of Saturnalia. It was later used in marriage rites, because it was believe to bestow fertility.
Pretty interesting history for a hemiparasite.
Well, part of the problem is that *most* clothes are designed to have a certain amount of ease, which can vary depending on the style and intended fit. That means that if you go by actual dimensions, you might get something too small, if you don't take ease into account. Not that most people seem to realise it. The number of people I see wearing clothes that are straining at the seams...
Another problem is that the women's garment industry doesn't follow any kind of engineering standards, like the IT industry does (sometimes). That means manufacturers can do whatever the hell they want.
A third problem is that manufacturers have been changing sizes so people won't realise that they're not as thin as they used to be. So you end up buying a size 2 because that sounds really good, even though you should be a 12 or a 14. (I don't think we have those wacky sizes in Canada. At least any time I've seen something that was a size 2, 4 or 6, it looked like it would *maybe* fit a 12-year-old.
The fourth problem... Well, people are kind of dumb sometimes and they write wacky things in their catalogues.
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