The most recent 20 comments posted to Making Light by Dolloch:

Great thread! I've found bullying.org to be a good resource on the subject.

@6 - To me, this is a conflict based around forgiveness vs. trust or "believe in God, but lock your doors". Forgiveness can be unconditional as IMO it's about reducing resentment in oneself and not necessarily for the benefit of the offender. Trust, however, must be conditional and as a result becomes subjective to the individual or group which defines the conditions.

To use a previous example, a beaten wife can forgive her husband: realize he has emotional problems stemming from his victimized childhood, see him as a broken human deserving of pity and help, believe in the possibility of redemption, etc, etc. However, she need not trust that he will refrain from beating her or treat her with any sort of respect. In order for her to go back, she's perfectly valid in requiring that he 1) not contact her for a year, 2) enroll in anger management classes, 3) turn himself into the police and throw himself on the mercy of the court. Those actions can be proof of someone willing to change their habits. Not that he would change, necessarily, but it is something tangible. The quality of those requirements would define whether she would be going back to an abuser, or a recovering abuser.

Someone bullying in a comment thread could be handled likewise. A person can engage in flame-incitement activities. Labeling them a troll and kicking them out doesn't solve the problem. If they are a true hornet's-nest-stirring troll, then they got the reaction they wanted. If not, they perceive being slighted and will continue with the bad behavior elsewhere. Pointing out to them that x, y, and z behaviors aren't tolerated though gives them a chance to alter their behavior.

Unfortunately, there's still the problem of them understanding WHY those behaviors are wrong. It's sort of like trying to explain why an Appeal to Authority isn't a valid argument rather than pointing out that the data and logic don't support the argument, regardless of the arguer.

To handle the stress of moving and the social changes that occur therin: Watership Down

Raphael @ 35

Quite a few, apparently. IIRC, MS formed to protect El Salvadorian immigrants from the abuse of local thugs.

KeithS @24

*nods*

Jesus was down right communist! That whole "love thine neighbor as thyself" and "love thine enemy as thyself" thing seems to lead directly to "afford people you don't like the same rights and privileges you enjoy, and they won't have a reason to hate you".

The theme that gets me is (and I know there's a proper term for this, but I can't recall it) a sort of proletariat-knight ideal: The honor and duty of a Charlemagne knight mixed with "lets roll up our sleeves and get it done 'cause it needs doin'". Plus it has a touch of the "whatever it takes" thrown in, particularly in The Dark Knight. Never mind that in the Batman universe, the regular system is so corrupt that there's no hope it will turn around on it's own (and they even address it when Bruce considers the Bat might not be needed anymore).

Lee @ 17 - That is AWESOME. Thanks!

Ken Brown @ 19 - I know, bizarre right? I get the impression that the train of thought is something like "I work really hard to get what I have. The world is inherently a fair, even, and just place. Therefore, anyone higher on the social economic ladder than me must be a harder worker with better skills. Likewise, anyone lower than me must be lazier or less skilled. Those above me have no reason to lie because they're better than me. Those below have every reason because they're jealous of my success."

On a related note, I'm sort of surprised (but not really) that Rambo III didn't make the list. I watched it recently and it was almost funny in a laugh-or-else-you'll-cry sort of a way.

A short excerpt:

Mousa: This is Afghanistan... Alexander the Great try to conquer this country... then Genghis Khan, then the British. Now Russia. But Afghan people fight hard, they never be defeated. Ancient enemy make prayer about these people... you wish to hear?
Rambo: Um-hum.
Mousa: Very good. It says, 'May God deliver us from the venom of the Cobra, teeth of the tiger, and the vengeance of the Afghan.' Understand what this means?
Rambo: That you guys don't take any shit?
Mousa: Yes... something like this.

I found this to be a scary, yet informative insight into how the Right view themselves. See, it's about upholding justice and honor and being hard workers, fighting those who would take advantage of the sweat of their labor: 25 top conservative movies.

Oh dear. I saw in the Particles section that video from Chris. He was the producer on a movie I did props for. Great guy, if a little cheesy. And the son of Gary "Space Ghost" Owens.

Nicholas - That's the one! Thanks!

The best argument I've seen to defeat the conspiracy theories is one they aired within the past couple of years on CBS (I think). A match mover (effects animator who recreates the camera movement, camera angles, and scenery in a shot so that other effects animators can replace faces on heads or put giant creatures into the scene believably) took the Zapruder film and whatever other visual reference was there, along with maps and building plans (as far as I know) and recreated the scene. He had the whole layout of the square, the speed of the motorcade, etc., etc., down to the body movements and positions of the bodies in relation to the film. In the end, he has an animation of the entire incident from the Zapruder camera.

The brilliant thing, though, is that he then creates another camera which he can move around where he likes and find out information that wouldn't be known from the angle that the Zapruder film was shot. Better than that, he took and marked the entry and exit wounds on the models of the people involved and drew lines between them, in order to find the origin of the shot(s) that created them.

The single, straight line went to the depository window.

He also did the motion of a cop on a motorbike because of where he was in the motorcade, but I don't remember the details of that. Something about the cop hearing a shot and where he was when he heard it as opposed to his memory and his statement. I think it was to disprove the grassy knoll concept because he had clear view of it or something.

Really fascinating. Wish I could remember more to find clips of it.

Ah, I get it. I was thinking African-American, but my definition of Bond Girl was off in any case.

Rikibeth and John Stanning:

Grace Jones in "A View To A Kill" doesn't count?

Skwid @ 159

Made of awesome! May I LJ iconize that?

Any sufficiently chilled fruit is indistinguishable from communal foodstuffs.

These are awesome! I have a deep desire now to commission the carving of some molds that depict Harry Potter scenes and perhaps a steampunk/LXG vision or two. Perhaps War of the World tripods (commemorating their defeat, of course) or Around the World in 80 Days balloon race?

Chip @ 160

The only way I see it really being true is if the Republican party is a cabal dictating to the members how to act and not a collective of thugs with the same purpose. That's why I call it a conspiracy theory and not a possibility. Still fun to think about, if your idea of fun is being completely wigged out and stressed 24/7... :)

John L. @ 61 and others

I've got a weird conspiracy theory:

Bush is taking the piss to try to get McCain elected.

Here's the specious evidence so far. Bush supports the bail-out. Democrats have been brought on board to support the bail-out. The Republicans are now grumbling against it. There are some Republicans here at work who were talking this morning about this, as if it were just another sign of Democrat weakness that they're doing the bail-out. They didn't mention that McCain is a Maverick™ flying in the face of Bush in favor of "good common sense", but it seemed to be in the subtext.

Bush has just refused to support an Israeli attack on Iran. McCain has been beating the Bomb Iran drum for a while now. Up until fairly recently, Bush was sounding pro-attack as well.

If somehow the Republicans are reacting as a well-coordinated group (or if not the whole, a loyal core of them), then The Party could have issued the edict that they are to make a pariah of Bush on his way out to make the Maverick™ for Change meme stick better.

I'm still wrapping my head around the actual details of the thing (finance was never my strong suit), but Sinfest has a particularly amusing take on it.

Whoops! Also wanted to add that in the Chinese paradox, the lesser crime has already been committed, so the inevitability of the punishment is the same. In the voting scenario, there is still the choice of not committing the crime.

Andrew @2
I'm all for election tampering being a treasonable offense. I'm still ticked that my hometown in Ohio made a spread in the NYT because of the 400 people registered to vote, 500 voted. The extras going to you-know-who. I have a suspicion that enough elected officials have wet their feet in that pond that making it a crime would violate their 5th amendment rights.

Charlie Stross @34 I feel that this is a false argument. Why the Chinese justice paradox doesn't apply is that murder (as opposed to 'in the heat of passion' manslaughter) takes quite a different mentality than election fraud and those that are up to the latter I wouldn't automatically assume would be up to the former. I once ran into a fellow who was able to manipulate tech so that he could get free cellphone time. In his opinion, why should people "pay for air?" Even though everyone else had to pay for what he was scamming off the cell phone company (in higher rates, etc, etc) he was definitely not a person who would go out an mug other people for the money to pay for a cellphone.

There's just not the blaze of glory in murdering to throw an election. Plus, you'd have to be really, really good at serial killing or live in a very sparsely populated area for it to make any difference.

Ginger @ 158

Exactly! If the McCain camp is playing to the positives of a mythical idea of "maverick" or "mother" or whatnot, why not bring up the flip side to the same myth. Maybe then we can get rid of all this mythos and personality politics and get back to issues.

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