The most recent 20 comments posted to Making Light by Liam:

"Talk of death and torture
Like we discuss rain."

I don't expect politeness but do you really think that a discussion works when one person makes a point and the the other repsonds with an insult. That denegrates the importance of the issue. If you really care about the issue stick to it. Otherwise you are bullshitting yourself as much as anyone else.

To be frank if I was talking to someone in person and they called me a troll I would give them a swift left hook. That's the beauty of the internet for tossers they can vent their tossy little spleens at all and sundry without any consequence.

"The radical organizations, and gangs, for that matter, provide food, shelter, clothing, a sense of belonging- and being valued and wanted--those are very strong drivers and characteristics which inspire particular youth "

And not only that they are not the occupiers. Most people well rebel against any form of occupation. If the job was to take Saddam out then it's been done. The only people that can save Iraq are Iraqis and they might not want to. Perhaps the result of the war will be the splitting up of Iraq into the three provinces it really is. Iran will be the big winner. Something that will cause old Rummy to spin in his grave (when he goes) for years and years.

"It smells an lot like some sort of sock puppet/troll crossbreed in here"

Ho ho ho. I love it. Don't argue the points get into personal insults. The internet a great place to debate and discuss. Shit no. I am better of talking to my 13 year old neice at least she has an inkling that dialogue often involves people disagreeing with each other.

In fact that kind of attitude maybe illustrates why the west should not be invading other countries to impose democracy on them: we westerners can't even debate issues without descending into insults. What a depressing state of affairs.

Donnie was wrong and to a certain extent right. Central Iraq is a horrible mess. But I have been to the North and parts of the South and it is not.

Truth is it could all stop if one islamic faction (sunni) stopped slaughtering the other (shi'ah). Perhaps Donnie was silly enough to swallow something that the oft vexed liberal left swallows like the sweetest honey: Islam is a religion of peace. I won't swallow crap from any religion, but it seems I am the only liberal who won't.

Get real Saddam was a bastard, Iraq was a stupid adventure, but you're in there, get over it, get on with the job, stop all the pissing and moaning, don't turn a shitty mess into genocide. At least Iraqi's get off their butts to vote.

th'only problems with all this reasoning:

1) where I come from (UK) we're essentially secular
2) the enlightment gave rise to, a certain, amount of dominance on the part of reason
3)geting hung up on a textual analysis of catholicism is not helpful when trying to deal with islamic nutters from feudal pakistan who have a deep seated hatred for all things western
4) but then again, over a glass of wine the west has always hated itself

Maybe, as a man I should stop worrying, it's western women who have the most to lose.

"Hard core no-nothings" is silly phrase. I know a few people who have no interest at all in politics, but have quite a lot of views on government and its effects on their lives. I also come from a background where scraping a living, feeding the kids and simply surviving take precedence over the affairs of those classes lording it over them.

Or perhaps "hard core no-nothings" can be applied to even the politically aware, for example, were you one when your and my governments stood by and allowed the genocide in Rwanda? just to remind you it was 1 million people who were slaughtered.

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