The most recent 20 comments posted to Electrolite by K Harris:

You all seem to know each other so well. Hi. I'm new.

A good bit of attention seems to be focused on whether we would be able to torture the right people. While the answer is probably "no", there is another issue, raised early in the discussion. A big NYT article (sometime earlier this year - sorry, don't have a reference) went to the source, offering interviews with US military interrogators. Whether the answers were self-serving, I cannot say. However, the interogators very clearly made the point that information gathered through torture is unreliable. Not only will people admit to doing things they haven't done, but they will make up details they think the questioner wants to hear. Framing questions is harder, since the subject has a strong motive to cue on the question to come up with an answer that will end the torture.

It is a good idea to hash through the ethics of torture, but coming down on the side that torture is ok is very likely to depend on the notion that torture is effective. If it isn't effective, it isn't ethical.

Sylvia,

Sadly, maintaining these lists does something beyond saying "we don't like you" to some nations. It creates the opportunity for countries that clearly should be on the list to stay off. Nobody likes the process, but US/Saudi diplomacy is sufficiently perverse that you have to wonder whether their isn't some diplomatic upside to being able to keep the Saudis off when they belong on.

All of this, by the way, is terrible for relations between the State Department and Congress. State gets the task of assessing who belongs on this (and other) list(s) from Congress. Members who don't want Saudi Arabia let off the hook are happy to cut State's budget, making legitimate diplomacy harder.

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