The most recent 20 comments posted to Making Light by Barry Ross:

The BBC article is quite misleading , even to the point of obfuscation. It’s hard to tell what is actually going on in Turkey. In the first place, the multitude of hadith have been traditionally known in a number of collections, each with their own particularities as to generally accepted reliability. Hadith that appear in the majority of collections have a patina of acceptability that those appearing in fewer places do not have. Secondly, each hadith in a certain collection has a chain of authority, called an isnad, which can either lend the hadith greater or lesser credibility. The study of hadith and this particular way of vouching for authenticity through isnads has been a discipline within the greater field of Islamic law throughout the history of Islam. This is only to say that the authorities in Turkey, whoever they may be, are not necessarily creating anything new out of whole cloth.The study of isnad has traditionally included the following (and probably other things I am missing)- are the persons who (1) first heard the prophet say something or (2) did someone close to the prophet hear something and is he/she contemporary with the source; are those who follow in the chain close enough to overlap in lifespan; are they (any and all of them) persons of reputable standing, i.e. not known liars; are there gaps in the chain of persons such that there is some point at which the purported witnessing is suspect.

However this has been judged in the case of any particular hadith gives it some exact weight as to reliability, and then, depending on the subject of the saying, and whether or not it is something that is well addressed in the Quran, the particular hadith has some particular gravity, can give a sense of how some matter might be judged in law, also depending on the school of law in which the issue is being judged.

Taking all of this into account, I am left wondering just exactly what it is that these Turkish scholars are doing. It is unclear from the BBC account in what way their activities differ from those of their forebears, and to what extent they are interpreting or emphasizing various traditions or bodies of tradition in ways that may differ from what has been traditionally accepted. My sense is that much of the folk interpretation that seems patently objectionable to many people has been at variance with long held scholarly interpretations, but that the acceptance of those folk interpretations has prevailed due to a wide acceptance of local variations in Islam.

I note that the administration is denying that there is any relationship between the Iranians holding Dr.Esfandiari and the Iranian diplomats being detained by the Americans, which I mentioned above. See NYTimes, this morning. Well, that's a relief.

I suspect this has something to do with the number of Iranian diplomats that the U.S. imprisoned in Iraq a few months ago. I've seen nothing about charges or about release (?), implying that we are still holding them, which would make Ms. Esfandiari an unfortunate pawn in this particular game of chess.

"Naw, grackles are in the corvidae..."
Actually grackles are not corvids, although I think they are quite as lovely anyway. They are members of the Quiscalus family

So many great variations on turkey! After being in charge for over 30 years I am firmly in the baste often/start with butter school. Brining seems to preclude stuffing as some have noted. Sorry, but the stuffing inside the turkey is exponentially better than cooked in a dish on the side. We had a great yam cassarole with chipotle adobo sauce gently adding a smokey flavor - pretty hot the second day though. Next year we plan seeded dried chipotles for the sauce to cut the heat. Stuffing was a cornbread concoction with green chiles (Anaheim), pine nuts and raisons soaked in Tequila. Yup, Santa Fe this year. I'm surprised that there has been no mention concerning leftovers, of the celestial grilled turkey sandwiches, which I have always thought were the main reason for roasting the turkey in the first place. Grilled to heat white meat, thinly sliced onion, grilled or not, cranberry sauce -I prefer the raw with orange- and mayo, all grilled on a nice pliant white bread until golden brown, oh for many more days of the same.

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