I went to New York for the first time ever a few months ago (techie training). My boss and I would wander around the city at night after our class got out. The night we walked to Chinatown was, well, freaking awesome. Not only did we get to eat in one of those 'hole-in-the-wall' Chinese places (the name was "SPECIAL TASTE RESTRAUNT" and they had to dig up a special english menu for us, the only gringos in the place (or on that street), but we also had a blast wandering through all the open shops.
My boss was looking for a 'coach' bag for his wife (I had never heard of them; maybe a reflection on the fact that I'm originally from Idaho and now live in Nebraska). So when a lady came up and whispered 'dvds, cds, whatever you want', he told her no thanks, but that we wanted a coach bag. She glanced around, took us to a shop a couple doors down, walked us to the back (all these shops are about 8 feet wide and 50 feet deep), past an old guy that gave us the once over, and through a door into a tiny hallway. At the other end of the hallway was what looked like a stockroom, and I assumed we were going in there. But instead, another lady came in, closed both doors, and OPENED THE WALL! Serious, straight-out-of-Scooby-Doo stuff. I think I clapped.
The secret door opened into a tiny (maybe 5x8) room lined with coach bags, prada, and other name-brands. He got three different bags for something like $60. I picked up a little leather prada-knockoff for $25. But even if I hadn't bought anything, it would still have been a fun time. Secret doors! Pirates! Arrrrr....
I have two questions:
1) How is there a Sci-Fi convention in Denver without me knowing about it? I live in the pan-handle of Nebraska - Denver is only a little over two hours away from me. I attended my first con (ever!) there earlier this year (Starfest) and I made a point of asking if there were any more cons coming up this year. Nobody knew nothing...
2) Why does the universe hate me? About a month ago, PZ Myers of Pharyngula fame had a meet and greet in Denver... about 8 hours after I flew out of Denver to go to New York for a week (business stuff). I probably passed him in the airport. And now? My one real vacation this year will be... that week! Of course! I'll be down in Las Vegas visiting family, leaving August 6th and getting back August 10th... Seriously, people. What have I done to deserve this?!
Bruce Cohen @ 70
As someone who has been around firearms for a good portion of his life[1], I know *exactly* what you're talking about: people who couldn't get the concept of range safety drilled into their head with a Craftsman.
But again, would the body count be more or less in that situation? A lot of people seem to think that you would have the 30+ dead people *AND* collateral damage. Is that true (or - at least - plausible)?
[update] I just read "The Infamous Brad"s blog. I dunno whether he's right or not, but he's at least the first person I've seen that tried to make an argument, rather than state it as fact.
[1] son of a Marine, lived in Idaho for ~ 15 years, currently working for an outdoor outfitting company in Nebraska. On the other hand, I didn't *own* any firearm until very recently. I.e., I am familiar with them, but not a "gun nut" (whatever that means).
The typical response I see to 'arm everybody' or 'arm teachers and grad students' is 'ricochet' and 'friendly fire' (not just in this thread). However, I haven't seen anybody answer this: even with FF and ricochet, would the body count be more or less than it was on Monday? Would he have made it past the first classroom?
I don't know either, but dismissing it out of hand is hardly scientific.
(By the way, since I haven't posted here in a while and ya'll probably don't remember me, I ask these from the point of view of a liberal atheist - not exactly a wingnut)
"Your analogy about God holds water only if all of us are "begotten not made." Having things you've made (say, little statues of clay, or computer programs) try to be human is not a wish, but a nightmare."
Ah, but a God that regards me like I regard computer programmes that I've written, well, he wouldn't be someone that I worshiped. Though, (and I know I'm not the first to make the comparison) if our human frailities are in fact bugs in God's code, that would explain a lot. Including The Flood (dammit! It'd be easier to start over in python...).
"That's why it's possible to be both a good Jew and an atheist."
That's interesting. I'm a "good Mormon" (don't drink, don't smoke, no coffee, go to church every week, etc). However, I've decided for myself that I would be happier following those "rules" (going to church excepted: that's solely to promote marital harmony). I don't need yet another addiction (smoking/caffeine) and drinking doesn't really appeal to me (also, it's expensive). But could I follow the rules of being a good Jew, if I didn't believe? I'd have a hard time not turning on lights on Saturday, if I didn't have some sort of compelling reason. Same with not eating bacon. Mmmmmm, bacon.
Which, of course, is the point that Greg made a couple of posts up. "Other people are crazy, not me." I'm sure other people are looking at my decision to not drink coffee as "Ah, self-justification for a previously held belief. Cuz who wouldn't drink coffee if they had the chance!?!?!?!!!" - in the same way that I can't even imagine not eating pork. So who am I to judge the conservative atheist Jew?
Oh, my point! I almost forgot. I'm a "good Mormon" and an atheist, but I don't have religion. At least, how I define religion. I'd be interested in a definition of religion that covers everything from me to you to Jimmy Swaggart. For instance, in 'Radical Pantheism', you say experimental science is elevated to be a 'holy thing'. What's the religious meaning of 'holy', if there is nothing to, well, bless it?
I'm probably exposing myself as all sorts of hay-seed here, with obvious questions. I apologize if I am, but I'm absolutely adoring this thread, and this is about the only conversation I've had in months that doesn't revolve around American Idol or computers...
"Your first sentence quoted above, though, is incorrect. There are religions which require no beliefs at all, or at any rate none that are unsupported by experience or science. (My own does allow for the temporary adoption of unsupported beliefs, but these are much closer to NLP tricks than to anything resembling dogma.)"
This may be exposing my provincialism, but what sort of religion requires no belief, and what is NLP? Unless you're declaring secular humanism to be religion...?
And I laughed out loud (as in literally, not just LOLed) at the Steak Center. Adam-ondi-Omelettes was what tickled my fancy (though Parsley P. Pratt got a good *heh*).
Finally, I would guess that 'being human means being closer to God' is based on 'humans are made in His image'. That's actually something about the Mormon religion that I can grock: if he is our literal Father in Heaven, why wouldn't he want us to be gods - like him - when we "grew up"? I mean, I want my kids out of the house *now*, and the oldest is only eight. Having them hang around for eternity telling me how great of a dad I am doesn't really appeal...
"He also stated flatly that it was because LDS is irrational bunk..."
Well, without trying to make this thread take (yet) another 90 degree turn, I would say that all religion is irrational bunk. As an atheist, I don't really see a big leap from "wandering street magician dying for our sins" and "farmboy find ancient manuscripts, and then dying". *shrug* And unlike comet cults, or whatever, at least Mormons have something tangible (the BOM) to read and reread, to convince themselves "It must be true!".
And to forstall the inevitable replies: Yes, I am an atheist Mormon. My family knows, my Bishop knows, all my good friends know, and it doesn't stop me from attending church every Sunday, and even holding various positions in my ward. My mere lack of belief in God isn't nearly enough for excommunication *grin*.
As for why I keep attending church, well, any culture that combines green jello and sex toys has my vote.
Not to stop your over-scwicked brain from inventing even more reasons for the d-ssh, but here's one that you may not have though of: I'm 6'2", and my wife is 5'2". That is, I am naturally a few inches "too high". With some tilting and pillows, we can get into the approximately right position, but it still hurts her back. Add the d-ssh, and she is less likely to say "Well, that was fun, now it's time to go to sleep" pre-, um, liftoff.
"mormon ... sex toys ... can't compute ..."
I believe the mlm is "Essense of Romance". It might even be Boise-specific (at least, the first google result was for a Boise address).
But if you're surprised that mormons and sex toys go together, well, where do you think all those 8-kid families come from? Hell, last Christmas my sister-in-law gave my wife and me a "doggy style support harness" and a bottle of "strawberry flavored skin spray". And those were far from the first things to go into our "kids stay out" drawer...
"I'm not a Mormon, so I can only speculate, but maybe it has something to do with the two-year missions, a sort of marketing baptism-by-fire."
I've speculated about that before. I didn't go on a mission, detest (almost) all salesmen, and have never fallen for a work-at-home scam. But it doesn't explain why Mormon women are so susceptible. Only a small fraction of them go on missions, but (at times it feels like) every single one of them is hawking soap, or stamps, or cookware, or - in one interesting case - sex toys.
"...it seems to me that the first thing a person should do upon getting the slightest whiff of religion in a sales pitch would be to RUN THE OTHER WAY!!!"
That is 100% true. I *detest* it when a sales(sub-hu)man tries to ferret out my religion so that they can give me the "just trust me, I'm Mormon, too!"-routine. Living in southern Idaho, it's all too common.
Wow. I just had to delete a paragraph of bile and tell myself to calm down. Apparently this is much more of a hot button issue with me than I thought :-) Let's just say that people who convince themselves that whatever they do is justifiable because they're "one of the good guys" (they have to be, they're religious!) are worse in many ways than someone who knows that they're despicable and are fine with that.
I have to say, as a life-long Mormon, I was neither shocked nor surprised to find out that Mr. Whitlock is L.D.S. There seems to be some odd connection between being able to believe in ole' Joe Smith, and being a sucker for pyramid schemes, MLMs, and pretty much any get-rich-quick "method". I would say, at a conservative estimate, 50% of the adults in my ward are either currently involved in some sort of MLM, or have been/will be. Unfortunately, that even includes my wife (stamps, cursed be their name). In our previous ward, the Bishop was involved in some magnet selling business, and pressured almost all of the other leaders in the ward to become his "down line". It's kind of creepy, very annoying, and overall just frustrating. The third or fourth time that you go over to some "friends" house because they invited you to hang out and play games, and end up having to turn down an amway sales pitch, you start to become cynical...
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