The most recent 20 comments posted to Electrolite by Kellie:

Xopher, it's unfortunate it has nothing to do with the sport. Especially if it's a tradition involving giving something to employees. Just think of the potential returns.... And maybe it does have something to do with boxing. Don't a lot of pink slips arrive this time of year? Seems the employers are just getting all metaphorical with the holiday.

Oh, and Happy Holidays.

J from VJ, quibble away, as I was not completely clear.

My point about "sorting things out" was more in response to the problem of perfectionism and cynicism when it comes to politics - something common to all ideologies and party affiliation, not just Independents (as Lydia implied). Perfectionism and cynicism are the first steps in stepping away from apathy. Independents, as I mentioned, don't want to affiliate themselves with a party. Whether that desire is borne out of a need to sort things out or not is something individual and hardly applicable to the group as a whole. I also didn't mean to imply that one couldn't remain Independent once things were sorted out, if that was why one became Independent in the first place.

In short, I'm with you 100%, J.

I was thinking of the people who decide that they are unwilling to be a member of Party X, and so register as Independent, or no preference, or whatever is the equivalent in their state.

This does not exclude the attitude J from VJ described. Quite frankly, to insist that the Democratic Party can't fix itself without the affiliation of folks who don't believe in/can't tolerate the majority of its figures implies that the problems in the DNC are a lot worse than anyone expected. Registering as an Independent is, as far as I'm concerned, the mark of someone who does not wish to be officially linked with either party. In fact, those who actually take the time to register as an Independent (rather than leaving the section blank, which I believe is an option, too), might be more inclined to have J from VJ's attitude of find the best candidate and support him or her as much as possible, regardless of party. If that is going to tank the DNC, then maybe we shouldn't have a party-system.

Rather, the problem is cynicism, or perfectionism, or both.

And again, this isn't just a problem with Independents. Perhaps these attitudes are most often found in Independents. I really wouldn't know, as I'm just emerging from perfectionism into cynicism with moments of realism - when it comes to politics at least. I'm very happy being Independent because it gives me a sense of political removal that my perfectionism required and my sense of justice and choice still needs. Political action seems to be a process of evolution. Not everyone is fortunate enough to accept the reality of politics at an early age. To imply that the problems of the DNC, and perhaps politics in general, are due to people who need more time to sort things out seems like passing the buck. The problems with the DNC can only be put on the people in control of it - its leading figures, the movers and shakers. If they can get their acts together, then it won't matter what everyone's personal poltical realization timeline is. And it honestly shouldn't matter.

I suddenly have this vision of Bush donning an appropriately dark, gloomy, sinister, hooded cloak and descending to the tenth sub-basement of the White House - where the dungeon is, as everyone knows. Swinging a set of keys, he strides to the darkest, smelliest, dankest cell of the dungeon. He drags a key across the bars. "Osaaaama." He squats down to the prisoner's level. "Don't worry. Just a few more dips in my approval rating, and you'll be released. In the middle of an armored tank division." He cackles in that chimp-ish manner. The occupant of the next stall, confused, joins in. Bush glares and kicks the bars of Saddam's cell. "Shut up. I'm saving you for Columbus Day!"

Hmmm. It seems I had the two switched. Guess we should look toward OBL's appearance closer to the eleciton.

The biggest thing that is wrong with the party is that people like you remain independent.

Apathy is the biggest problem in politics in general, including the DNC. And independence does not equal apathy any more than party affiliation equals political concern and action.

If Bush can pull OBL and/or Saddam out of the hat a month or so before the election, having the head on a stick will give him the approval ratings he needs.

I suddenly have this vision of Bush donning an appropriately dark, gloomy, sinister, hooded cloak and descending to the tenth sub-basement of the White House - where the dungeon is, as everyone knows. Swinging a set of keys, he strides to the darkest, smelliest, dankest cell of the dungeon. He drags a key across the bars. "Osaaaama." He squats down to the prisoner's level. "Don't worry. Just a few more dips in my approval rating, and you'll be released. In the middle of an armored tank division." He cackles in that chimp-ish manner. The occupant of the next stall, confused, joins in. Bush glares and kicks the bars of Saddam's cell. "Shut up. I'm saving you for Columbus Day!"

No, it's not talented cholesterol. But the surgeon who could remove a gall bladder from cholesterol - now that's talent.

Patrick, true. And then we get into matters of opinion as to what constitutes "better" and "worse", and all hell breaks loose.

I did have some long and drawn out post about comparing the lesser of two evils concept to bad food and what it does to the palate, but this thread already has enough bad metaphors. :)

Scott Lynch wrote: "It pops up all the time in Republican/Democrat arguments, for example:

Poster A: "Christ, the Bush Administration is corrupt!"

Poster B: "So what? The Democrats were corrupt, too. Politicians have been corrupt since Moses was on infant formula."

The first problem is that this retort is not a refutation. The second problem is that if you examine the logic, the fact that human nature can be ugly is simultaneously presented as a credit to one side and a detriment to the other.

It also pops up in Democratic/Republican discussions in the following fashion:

Poster X: "The Bush Administration is corrupt. I miss the Clinton days because shit like this never happend. My man Clinton was a saint when it came to politics."

Poster Y: "Gimme a break. The Democrats were corrupt, too. Politicians have been corrupt since Moses was on infant formula."

I wasn't paying close enough attention to the comments to see if anyone was traipsing down this path. My guess is that tost read something that sounded to him like Poster X. In which case it does become a refutation, not of the accusations about the Bush administration, but of the praise of the Clinton administration. And it points out the equity of evil in politics - everyone's got it, some are just better at hiding it, some deny they have it even while using it, and some want to use it as much as possible and tell you it's for the best. By equity, I mean that it can't be a detriment to one and a credit to another.

Thanks for the link, Claude. I'm struck by Nader's quote, "But this war is on both parties." How does actively campaigning in ways to help Bush get into power count as a warring with the Republicans? Was he hoping to lure Bush into power and then squash him? If so, how? It seems Nader has a problem with bad metaphors.

Emma, Ralph was in the news during the recall election. But, alas, that news wasn't too good either. Well, I suppose that depends on your perspective. My favorite line: "As TV cameras rolled, Nader reflexively threw remnants of the pie in the direction of the culprit, who fled out a side door and was not apprehended." Ah yes, that omnipresent Attack Your Attacker reflex. Didn't realize it applied to Pie Assaults.

Patrick wrote: a tendency to value aesthetics over people;

Meh. In today's visual and commercial age, most everybody does this to one extent or another.

an attachment to romantic views of landscape and "wilderness";

Again, meh.

a tropism toward eliminationist rhetoric about whole classes of people.

OK, that got the alarm bells ringing.

Thanks for your reasoning. Point taken.

Barry, I'm with sennoma. Got any more info to back up Nader's desire to help the Reps win 2000?

Bad speechwriter. Bad, bad! It's a neat idea. A pretty metaphor that could've been used better by someone claiming to represent the environment. For example, the rains cause brief flowerings in the desert. He could've said something along the lines of "But you know what rain in the desert produces? A season of blooming lushness followed by months of prickly cactuses." Which still isn't accurate, but at least it's closer to the mark and serves to make Dean more ominous. Assuming that was his intent in the first place. Maybe he should've just gone for the obvious: "Ye though I walk through the valley of the shadow of Dean."

Out of curiosity, why are the greens quasi enemies? Is it because they embrace extreme environmentalist groups like PETA (which I don't know that they do, but they would be more likely to do so than, say, the Democrats)? Or is it because they take votes away from Democratic candidates? My only real exposure to a Green party platform was the Green party in Germany, and I don't think that would translate very accurately to the US.

Eep. Reading those quotes, I have to wonder if there's a contextual element that we're missing. That perhaps there was a voice from society saying, "Find a way to preseve our social order." Or something else that makes those little tidbits only shocking as compared to horrifying. If the framers of the education system really wanted to maintain social order in the manner their quotes seem to suggest, they should've adopted a school system more like the German one. You start specialized tracks in sixth grade or so.

The goal of public education nowadays seems to be a completely political one. Find a new way to say it's broken, find a new way to say it can be fixed, and then come up with a new way to screw it over under the guise of fixing it. All while trying to get more votes. The people actually running the system do nothing more than play catch-up with the current political figure doing the string-pulling. Pretty soon the system is going to hit rock bottom, and then we'll have to create a whole new institution, complete with strategies and ideas that may shock later generations when the institution falls apart.

Wow. That was really cynical of me. Nothing like three months as a public school teacher to cure you of any idealism you had for that institution.

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