Kate, is your first one from Dan Simmons' _Ilium_? The opening sounds like Fagles' translation of the Iliad, but the rest, not so much.
Karen -- the second one is Watership Down?
'Tis. Opening two pages or so.
Mike asked,
"Are there any legitimate organizations of any manner in this industry outside the big trade organizations? From the sound of this group, the answer is a resounding no. Interesting...."
Define "this industry" (publishing as a whole? science fiction publishing? self-publishing?) Define "big trade organizations." (SFWA? Major publishing houses? NWU?) That's one hell of a wide brush you're painting with there, and I haven't seen _anything_ that would justify you in picking it up.
On the one hand, this thread has been largely devoted to TWC and other organizations that make authors pay to publish them. _That's_ what the publishing and creative people on this thread consider illegitimate: organizations that violate Yog's Law, that money flows _toward_ the author (cited in TNH's initial post, as it happens).
The discussion of the failings of TWC has _not_ focused around the problems with an organization dedicated to attacking some of the problems with the modern publishing industry and the way it treats midlist or unconventional authors.
It has focused around the idea that TWC (and all the other vanity presses) charges authors handsomely for the privilege of...what, exactly? A website that hasn't been updated in two years? "Professional-quality" graphic designers and editors, who just happen to remain nameless? Placement in major review journals like Heartland Reviews, unlike those evil major publishing houses who never get books reviewed in Kirkus (James MacDonald, call your office!)? The ability to gain lots of publicity for TWC's mission (as opposed to gratuitously insulting experienced industry pros when they ask some basic questions)? The basic bookselling element of getting a picture of your book up on Amazon and BN.com? Where exactly is this money _going_?
But you claim that the pros who hang out at Making Light don't believe in the legitimacy of any other industry-related organizations. Let's talk science fiction, since that is where the focus of many of said pros lies. Does the Science Fiction and Fantasy Writers of America not count? (how about the NWU, for that matter, which I don't notice anybody here criticizing). How about SFRevu, or SFSite, or NESFA, or LASFS? What about small presses like Tachyon, Small Beer, Golden Gryphon? Hell, do you think the people in science fiction publishing on this weblog have a problem with _conventions_, for Ghu's sake?
Let's make this very explicit so as to avoid claims of misinterpretation. The people you are criticizing have no inherent problem with organizations in the publishing industry outside of major publishing houses, etc (even the web community discussed in Slushkiller wasn't criticized for its existence or mission, but for the way that it went about things). They have a problem with organizations in the publishing industry that charge authors for the privilege of publishing them (outside of some very narrow, carefully defined circumstances), rather than the other way 'round. If you are going to use implication and innuendo to accuse them of doing otherwise, you're going to have to bring a _hell_ of a lot more evidence than you have adduced thus far.
That they reject (some) submissions doesn't in itself make TWC benign, though. The issue is not whether TWC accept anything that is submitted to them, but rather whether it exploits "their" authors through violations of Yog's Law. Besides, the only evidence extant that TWC is, in fact, selective is the Lisa Grant claim you cite, which is contradicted by the sales figures that James MacDonald found. I'd be interested to see if Ms. Grant can show how that contradiction might be resolved.
I'd also be interested if Ms. Grant could explain to us how the TWC policy of not accepting submissions from "newbies and amateurs" (what, pray tell, is an amateur?) is in the best interests of authors in general? Would it not make somewhat more sense to help new authors find their footing outside of the confines of the publishing world (and their business practices) that Ms. Grant professes to deplore? Also, the implication here seems to be that novelists in the early stages of a career cannot produce the kind of quality novels (such as _The Last Bastion_) that TWC needs to build its brand. I think Maureen McHugh and Cherie Priest, among others, might disagree.
As for the rest: Mike, you'll forgive me if I find an essentially anonymous, very vague testimonial to Marion Gropen's smarts and integrity less than dispositive. Care to provide some more details?
Steve, John Scalzi recently printed a couple of pieces of his on CafePress; he might be a useful person to ask.
On that note...I've been trying to locate one particular story for a while now. It's quite short, felt stylistically like Arthur Clarke, but didn't seem to be in his Collected Stories. The narrator encounters a stranger in a public place somewhere (a park, maybe?). They have a conversation about whether you can ever really know the truth about the nature or character of public figures; in particular, whether everyone who is described as evil is actually evil. The last line is "My name is Lucifer" or words to that effect. Any ideas?
Jill -- that's definitely the song I was thinking of (I think I learned it from listening to way too much Peter, Paul, and Mary when I was small).
Is this thread reminding anybody else of "The Marvelous Toy," or is it just me?
As for her having 13 years of experience with the M-16, didn't she mention that she had 13 or 14 years accumulated time in the Reserves? That would seem to explain it, no?
Clark, could you explain your point about AK-47s vs. M-16s in a little more detail for we laypeople?
She's said stuff in passing in previous posts about being involved in interrogations, etc.
John Sawers,
Dan Drezner
The Volokh Conspiracy
Obsidian Wings (Moe Lane and Sebastian Holsclaw)
Tacitus
Outside the Beltway (James Joyner)
Priorities and Frivolities (Robert Tagorda)
Oxblog
Virginia Postrel
Jim Henley
Eve Tushnet
Crescat Sententia
Tom Maguire
Teresa, what happened to your original (longer) post on this story?
Has anybody else read L'engle's _Many Waters_? I thought she was making them up...
Rachel -- once the wolves come out of the walls, it's ALL OVER.
| Year | Number of comments posted |
|---|---|
| 2004 | 19 |
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