Nope Maggie, what you said was exactly what I was saying. They must know what message their clothing sends, and if they don't like it, they should choose something else.
But like I said, some folks honestly don't think about it...usually the teenage girls. "I don't understand why all the boys think I'm easy" they say as they hike up their skirt a little shorter, y'know? HELLO, girls!
Or like a comedian I saw once put it...he was talking about how he was at a club and saw a woman in a ridiculously short skirt. She saw him looking, got mad, and snapped "what are you looking at?" He was thinking, "YOUR VAGINA!!!"
Tabby, I think you're misreading what I wrote. I wasn't saying people couldn't judge us for wearing salwar kameez but could judge folks who dress scantily; the point was that we know that we might be judged for what we wear yet don't complain about it, and if we didn't like that people see us as unusual, then we wouldn't wear it. Period. Like I said, I often dress in a slightly-unusual way. I know the message it sends--hippie, goth, however I'm dressed that day. That's the message I mean to send; if I didn't, I wouldn't wear it, y'know? So to complain about the message one's clothing sends--that one is promiscuous--well, sounds pretty ridiculous to me.
The other day I took my blue outfit to visit the boi--well, did my trick of wearing the kameez and dupatta with my black cargo pants. We decided to go out to an Indian restaurant, and I forgot until we got there what I was wearing it. The guy working there was asking me stuff like have I been to India, where did I get my outfit, etc.
Unfortunately the boi doesn't like the outfit...says it looks like I'm wearing scrubs ("yeah, why do you think I laughed when you were in the hospital?"). I mean, that outfit doesn't help; the kameez IS sort of a scrub shade of blue, and it's very simple (just a small embroidered motif at the neckline). He just thinks it's weird. I'll have to try my other one out on him, the one that has more embroidery and THE BRIGHT RED SALWAR (which I'm absolutely in love with. The top is okay too, I like the embroidery and such but tan is not my color and red and tan together never really did anything for me).
Help, I can't find the post with the URL for S2 in it!
LOL, we need to make this thread into a whole message board!!
I am still anxiously awaiting when it will actually be warm enough to wear my salwar kameez...I hate Michigan! Neither of my kameez have long sleeves, and while I've done the "wear a long-sleeved shirt underneath and wrap a couple dupattas around," I feel like it looks pretty stupid. And, I need to wash my black sweater coat--luckily it's exactly the length of my blue kameez, which has black churidar, so it matches pretty well, but it needs washing badly.
As far as women dressing provocatively...I have to agree that the victim shouldn't be blamed for things like sexual assault. But, what a lot of women (and actually usually teenage girls) don't understand is that certain clothing sends a certain message--there are a lot of girls who don't dress much differently from hookers and then they wonder why the boys (and everyone else) think they're easy. Or they dress provocatively because they want the boys they like to look at them, and then they get mad when the boys they don't like look too, as if they think they have this force-field around them that makes the boys they don't like think they're wearing a burqa but the boys they do like can see it's a tube top and micro-mini. Certainly clothing has nothing to do with rape and it's ridiculous to say it does, but it does have to do with how people see you--it's the same reason I dress professionally at work rather than in my pajamas, don't go outside in the nastiest old clothing I own, etc. People ARE judged by their looks. People CAN consciously dress to send a certain message, so if they are judged negatively according to what they wear they really have no one to blame but themselves--I mean, as many of us here have said about Indian dress, we know we may get weird looks, but we don't care--we know we're sending the message that yeah, we don't dress like everyone else and we choose to send that message because we ARE different. I don't dress provocatively because I don't want anyone but my significant other looking at me in that way (HE can look all he wants :) ). Hell, I won't say I don't wear tank tops or shorts that are shorter than mid-thigh, because I do. And yes, there is clothing I have that I've stopped wearing in public because it attracted too much attention (like my short denim skort--it looks REALLY cute on me, but it also looks like a miniskirt and I vowed to never wear it outside again after I got whistled at once in a parking lot. Mind you, I'm not a girl who would be considered pretty or "hot," so it was definitely the skort). I don't show up at work in ripped jeans because I don't want anyone thinking I'm a slob. I dress like a hippie sometimes because I DO want people to see me that way--and if I don't want to give off that image in a certain situation, I wear something else. Etc. I know a lot of people have gotten pissed at me in the past for my "take responsibility for how you look" viewpoint, but 'tis true.
I'd love to work somewhere with a uniform--no worrying about what to wear, did I just wear this the other day, etc. Easy. And if you forget to do the laundry and wear the same shirt twice--who's gonna know??
Oh gosh, did I ever get flamed once on a message board for suggesting that those who, uh, are not suited to scanty clothing not wear it. I just don't understand why folks dress to show off their worst features! I mean, I have no boobs, so I don't wear low-cut stuff that emphasizes it. I have a big butt, so I don't wear tight pants and skirts. I mean, it's not even a matter of saying "how come only the skinny built folks get to show off their bodies?" It's more like "maybe we should all wear what's most attractive to us." There's stuff I can wear that chubbier women can't. There's stuff they can wear that I can't (like the low-cut stuff).
That said, I think men should cover up too...I've definitely seen plenty of guys out there that need to put a little something more on!
Uninformed people say the same thing to me about excercise- that not only will I lose weight, but I'll have more energy and feel better.
GAH, people say that to my mom too! Yeah, I'm sure many of her problems are exacerbated or caused by her being overweight, but for heavens sake...the woman has fibromyalgia, asthma, and almost no cartilage left in her knees! She can barely walk ten feet! She uses a walker sometimes!! Not like she's about to go running or biking to lose weight, geez.
I'd love to have Indian fabric stores around, too...I mean, I can go to a fabric store and try to pick out some fabrics that match that I could make a suit from, but there's not really much with an ethnic-type print or any sort of embroidery or anything.
Anyone else been to JoAnn Fabrics recently? I see that right now they have some gorgeous polyester brocades with gold borders that'd make lovely saris if you could find a way to make a pallu on them. And, they're made so they'd be reversible too (always did love the reversible saris). If I had anywhere to wear a sari, and knew what to do for a pallu, I'd totally get some....definitely worth checking out though.
I definitely turn on the faucet, use a ton of soap, and put my glass bangles on VERRRRRRY slowly! I still break them sometimes, though. They are saved only for very special occasions (a couple times I got out all my red, green, and gold ones and wore them for Christmas Eve at church)
Last summer I was in Chicago and made a trip to Devon Ave. I bought...was it three sets of bangles? All were too big! It was a hot day, so my hands were swollen up and it was hard to tell the sizes...at one store, I picked out one set and then asked the lady the size of another and she told me they were the same size. Were not! The second set were at least a 2.8 (the first seem to be a 2.6). At the second store, I think I asked outright for a 2.4 and still got some that were too big.
Ha, and I just remembered. A few months ago my boyfriend was in the hospital (the trick of the amazing exploding appendix) and he got up and went to the bathroom, and as he came back I looked at him and started laughing. See, he was wearing a gown and hospital PJ pants, and he looked an awful lot like he was wearing the "kurta pajama" men's version of a salwar kameez. I tried to explain to him but he didn't get it.
He was awful cute in it, though...
I just got an email from Beachcombers saying they now carry glass bangles in sizes 2.6 through 2.12.
I actually wear a 2.4 in bangles...I wear a 2.6 in glass bangles though. I have tiny wrists, extremely so, but my hands are closer to normal size (still small, but closer to normal), so my wrists/hands are actually not in proportion. My wrists could definitely take smaller bangles if I could get them on! I have to wear the larger in glass though or I break them just trying to put them on/take them off--and boy are those cuts on one's knuckles nasty! Because of the breakage factor (both for putting on/off, and because I just tend to break them--managed to break a few once when my ex, not realizing I had them on, grabbed my wrist to get my attention. Luckily I didn't get cut...unluckily it was the first time I'd ever worn them!)
Tabby and Maggie, my mom also has fibromyalgia. Among a ton of other things like arthritis, asthma, type 2 diabetes (yep, like I've said before, she's overweight, but it's hard to exercise when you can't breathe and have arthritis in your knees so badly that you can barely walk, y'know? So not much that can be done about that), thyroid problems, had breast cancer several years ago, etc. etc. etc. She's on disability now (lost her job about a year and a half ago and obviously no one else was going to hire her; she says now she's not sure she would've been able to continue working much longer anyway with the way her health went downhill). Much of what you're saying sounds familiar to me!
Kat, there is silk available from silkworms that have not been killed, called peace silk or ahimsa silk.
I'd heard of that, but I wasn't sure if it was actually true or not. How does it work, then? Isn't the thread interrupted when the silk worm comes out?
Anne, let me know how that salwar pattern turns out and maybe I'll give it a go.
As far as draping a sari oneself...I've never found it difficult, even my first time, to tell you the truth. I'm sure it didn't look perfect at first, but by about the third time I was making some pretty good pleats.
My mom personally loves my salwar kameezes. I wish I could make her one, I know she'd just love it (she's rather plus-size so a bit of working of the pattern would be required--she doesn't think she'd fit even the regular-size salwar--but I don't think it should be too hard). She keeps encouraging me to wear them more (unfortunately both of mine are short-sleeved so we haven't yet hit weather in Michigan that allows me to wear them yet and while I've worn them with a long-sleeved t-shirt underneath before or with a long sweater coat over the top, I don't much like the t-shirt layering look and my sweater coat needs washing). She's even asked me if I could get away with wearing one to work. I'm not so sure about that--I work at a bank with a somewhat-strict dress code and even if I made a very plain one, the style itself might be against code--but it'd be nifty if I could!
I have to say, the salwar kameez style I like best is traditional salwar and a long kameez--below-knee to mid-calf length. And relatively plain in color and embellishment (I've seen a lot of more modern necklines and fabrics that I can't say I like). I tend to like my clothing more simple, period...makes it a bit difficult to find salwar kameez sometimes! I'd love to go to India just to go clothes shopping and have a bunch of stuff made just the way I want it (hence why I want to learn to sew my own). Gotta find a good source for fabric...I've seen some nice ones at fabric stores but am a bit hard-pressed to find ones that are matching for the salwar, kameez, and dupatta...
But do they have pockets?
No, but I sometimes wear one of my kameez over cargo pants--the churidar with the kameez are black anyway, so I toss it over my black cargo pants. Since they're black, it's not immediately obvious that they're cargos, and the slits on the kameez provide easy access. (also they're cut more full than the churidar--can't say I like churidar; I much prefer salwar)
as an Indian growing up in India, I never bought a "ready-made" garment till I was about 18. Everything thus far had been tailored.
From what I learned from a girl i went to college with who was from India, many things that are considered "luxuries" in the U.S. and many European countries are relatively mainstream in India, because prices are much cheaper--she was saying her family had a driver, just about everyone had a driver, because it cost like $50 a week, you were giving someone a job, etc. In the U.S., tell someone you have custom-made clothing and a personal driver and they assume you're rolling in money!
I've always wondered, though--if I went to India and bought a salwar kameez from a shop, how much would it cost, roughly? I mean, could one get a basic, relatively-plain-Jane salwar kameez for $20? (to me, in the U.S. or otherwise, $30+ *is* a lot of money for clothing...)
They're gorgeous outfits, but I need an excuse to learn to use my sewing machine anyway, and it looks like the fabric is available in nifty colors that they won't sell actual clothes in.
I have such a difficult time finding (at least on ebay) salwar kameez that I don't deem as either too expensive or godawful-ugly that this was something I considered too. I figured I could take apart one of the kameez and the salwar I have to make a pattern from (then reconstruct of course), make salwar in a few basic colors--black and brown to start--and matching dupattas, and then get some nifty fabric and start making various kameez like mad. Sure, such fancy fabric is hard to find in the U.S. unless you go somewhere specialized and pay a lot, but I'm sure many tailors/seamstresses/alterations folk have those sewing machines that can do machine embroidery (I myself know one who does) and one could always make up the outfit oneself and then have one of those folks do embroidery on it.
And if stuck for a pattern, find something cheap on ebay--even if you think it's butt-ugly, not like you're going to wear it--and take it apart to make a pattern from. I notice the kameez seem to be a very simple garment that would lend themselves easily to this. Other than a pattern on eBay long ago that I kept meaning to buy and never did, I have never found a pattern for them.
If anyone who is familiar with salwar kameez can talk a little bit about fabrics, I'd love to hear it. I have (somewhat third-hand) a story of the unfortunate experience of a woman who bought a sari to wear to a friend's wedding celebratoin, where said woman was the only non-Indian present. The fabric she picked made it roughly the equivalent of showing up at a black-tie even in a gingham skirt.
Cotton is to be avoided; I'm pretty sure that's considered pretty "country." One can never go wrong with highly-embroidered silk...if one has moral objections to silk, as I do (I'm vegetarian and don't consume or wear products that required a living creature's death to produce), I've seen some pretty nice stuff in synthetic fabrics on eBay as well (though I couldn't speak to whether they'd be formally-acceptable).
They are the only eBay store with large bangle sizes, plus be specializes in bridal/formal jewelry from $27-$80 dollars.
Anyone know of a good source for SMALL bangle sizes? I wear a 2.4 and that size is often hard to find...
Oh, well, if you're going to leave eBay for this discussion, Priyanka's has a HUGE selection of salwar kameez at Priyankas.com, maybe even a thousand to choose from.
I've heard from several people though that Priyanka's is a tad lacking in customer service...though apparently among their many websites, there is a U.S.-based one that is easier to deal with. I just can't remember which one that is (it has been a couple years since I've heard this, so maybe their service has improved in that time as well).
And yes I do know exactly how much the cost of living is in India, you can live in India for about $2.00 USD A DAY!!
My Indian friend from college once told me that if I ever went to India, taking a hundred bucks (U.S.$) would last me for a long time, even if I did a good amount of spending.
Here also are a couple salwar patterns I've found on the 'net; I've never tried them, mostly because I can't sew! but they might be good:
http://www.shira.net/arabella/quicksalwar.htm
http://www.shira.net/arabella/narrowsalwar.htm
Out of curiosity, what sort of shoes does everyone wear with salwar kameez and sari anyway? I mean, I've seen Indian ladies in salwar kameez or sari and tennis shoes, but I have a feeling I couldn't pull off that look. :) The traditional shoes don't look very substantial--i.e., nothing I'd wear outside--plus they're made of leather. I tend to wear my oxfords or monk straps with my salwar kameez currently. My sari, I hardly ever wear because there's no occasion to do so!
Public Citizen want to be, and act as much as possible, like dictators.
It wasn't enough to just get information out there so adults could make informed decisions. No, they had to make our decisions for us.
All of us have to realize, though, this is what happens when the government gets to decide what chemicals we voluntarily put into our bodies.
Nix the FDA and the DEA.
Everybody!
A-Ba-Cha
A-Ba-Cha
A-Ba-Cha she take me money and run to Nigeria
Her husband she said he were dead
But old man had three million beneath he bed
Abacha she take me money and run to Nigeria
She told me ten percent she'd pay
But now she and me money gone away
Abachca she take me money and run to Nigeria
Once again now...
Why grenache? Why not sangiovese? Cabernet franc? Trebbiano? And how do these colors differ from something passe like burgundy? I MUST KNOW THESE THINGS! THE FASHION ILLUMINATI MUST INFORM ME!!
I'm personally waiting for them to bring back beige again, though I think it would sell much better and be much more sophisticated if they called it viognier or riesling.
| Year | Number of comments posted |
|---|---|
| 2007 | 10 |
| 2006 | 1 |
| 2005 | 1 |
| 2004 | 1 |
Total: 13 comments. View all these comments on a single page.
The most recent 20 comments posted to Making Light by brennan:
Show all comments by brennan.