You should all be frightened when I am the first to post on an open thread...
How about this? http://slashdot.org/articles/04/08/29/174220.shtml?tid=219&tid=1
Thanks Karen. I greatly appreciate your point of view and (believe it or not) I will definitely check out the link you sent.
To everyone else, I appreciate the comments here (believe it or not), even though I must seem like a ten-legged toad to most of you. I would never have brought the subject up if I hadn't thought I would hear intelligent comments. Forgive me if sometimes my emotions intrude on thoughtful discussion.
I have to go make organic pizza now with lots of nuts and twigs to keep my kids healthy. I read on a very reputable website that almonds, witchhazel, and newt eyes are a viable substitute for the chicken pox vaccine. (wink, wink)
Tom and Ulrika, I mean offense to no one (except, of course, those who call me names...I hope I really, really, really offend them, moohoohaha). I've read all posts quite thoughtfully. And I firmly respect each of their opinions. However, it's not my point of view, and it seems to me that this is absolutely the wrong forum in which to bring this up, as no one here is an expert on the subject and everyone is simply offering platitudes (including me).
Tavela had one of the more thoughtful comments here. However, he/she included the comment that I was boneheaded and it's just no fun to be called boneheaded. Really, it's not. And the sad part is, I'm a pretty nice, down-to-Earth guy. Thus, I'm choosing to give up rather than continuing to fight a losing battle. I'm obviously not going to win any battles here and no one here is going to change my opinion on the subject.
We'll just have to agree to disagree.
Wait, I don't agree with that.
And by the way, let's go back to talking about gmail accounts! Obviously there's nothing constructive happening in this discussion of vaccines.
My gmail account is nifty. I only wish people sent me any email. (and that's not an invitation for you Randall-haters out there to send me your vitriol...hahaha!)
Hmmm...I was wondering when the name calling would start. I'm apparently clueless and ignorant and boneheaded. (I'm also a freedom fighter! Thanks, Kris!)
However, I brought up the topic to initiate discussion and elicit different points of view. I think that in a discussion that one should hear all sides and not make a judgement until they can make an informed decision.
But it's much more interesting to call each other names! That's fun and really makes me want to participate even more! Plus, it's good that a certain few of you label me as such, for if you hadn't, then I would have brought civilization to the brink of extinction from just a few simple posts on Electrolite. Thanks for saving the world, people!
On a more serious note, being a left-leaning person means that you're able to take in other points of view, whether you agree with them or not. I think that a certain few people here are sure rushing to conclusions about the choices I've made. To me, that would be boneheaded, ignorant, and clueless.
Ah, but people are what they are...
Hey Kris! Thanks for the comments! I've always liked to consider myself a freedom fighter! That's me! Fighting all by myself as a questioner of the status quo of vaccinations! I figured that since no one was questioning the status quo of vaccinations, I should be the first. It's nice to know that someone supports me in my tireless quest to change the minds of the ignorant masses and change the status quo of vaccinations! Would you like to be my junior agent?
Sincerely,
Your hero
Chad - I prefer to think of my viewpoint as "odd" and not "weird". It just makes me feel better. And I guess you're missing my point entirely. I'm not anti-science. You, yourself, admit that it's a topic that you don't pay much attention to. Do you know how many different vaccines are given to a child during their first three years? Do you know how many of them are necessary? Is a chicken pox vaccine necessary for the good of humanity? Polio, sure. But can I get a polio vaccine all by myself for my child? No. I don't get a choice. I have to have all of the vaccines or none of the vaccines, and personally, I don't feel like all of them are necessary. In fact, some of them can be quite dangerous for developing immune systems.
Part of my problem is the fact that so many of these vaccines have been accepted into our society...Oh, why am I arguing? If you feel that my viewpoints are anti-science and "weird", then you've got your opinion and there's no reason to try to change it. I feel confident in my beliefs because this is the health of my child that I'm dealing with. It certainly wasn't a flippant decision. I was merely trying to elicit other viewpoints. I seem to have gotten my fair share.
I'm off to read Tom Robbin's literary manifesto in the latest issue of Harper's. See you tomorrow on an entirely different topic.
I hear! I hear! I've been listening, man! Good comments Patrick and Xopher. A nice manifesto. And speaking of which, I found this recently: http://www.changethis.com/ Haven't read it fully, but it's an interesting idea.
And anyway, I understand everyone's position here. I simply have one of my own. It's hard to argue with your points, but my overall problem with vaccinations is the steady stream of disinformation that few people question anymore, as well as the real lack of choice about what you can actually choose to give your children. Some vaccines I have no problem with, but with some I do have a problem, and there are no choices in this regard. It's either all or none. I chose none.
Lively discussion, nonetheless.
Jo - You don't have to have vaccinations in Canada. Or the U.S. for that matter. You can be object because of religious or philosophical reasons. And I wholeheartedly object due to philosophical reasons. OH, YEAH!
As for third world countries...Been there, done that. And I would take my kids.
I thought this was a left-leaning message board. Hardy-har-har!
Patrick, Richard Brandt is obviously shunning you and in private, he said a few nasty things about you that I shouldn't repeat in public.
Thus, you should send ME his invitation and I will most definitely relay the invitation to him through my account in Nigeria.
Thank you,
Randall Mobuto
Thanks Xopher...I just didn't want to piss everyone off.
My whole beef with vaccines is that no one questions them anymore. They just get them. And as a new parent, I have some real questions about their effectiveness and the potential harm that they do to our children. I went to a lecture one time where the doctor presenting compared our use of vaccines to what happened with lead pipes and the Roman empire. Basically, we may be participatig in the dumbing down of an entire generation of people.
I don't trust pharmaceutical (spellcheck, please) companies nowadays. For example, if there's no link to autism and vaccines, then why did they remove themerosol from the latest generation of vaccines? (Themersol being the mercury-laden preservative that was used for years and was linked to autism).
I have a very healthy, unvaccinated kid. She rarely gets sick and is full of energy. Considering the snotty-nosed, ADD-ridden, constantly-sick kids she's always around, I think our failure to vaccinate her has done wonders and I can name several others who feel the same way. Of course, that's just a personal opinion, but I think that by avoiding vaccines, my child is healthier, because her immune system was not compromised early in her life.
I'm babbling.
I think that there's a real disconnect in this generation in regards to what protest is actually about. I come from a generation that hasn't had to sacrifice a single thing for the good of a greater cause in their lives, thus they don't understand how thoughtful protest can bring about actual change. I thought that 9/11 would help drive home the idea of what it means to sacrifice for your country and beliefs, but with bush in charge, it was a huge failure. In fact, he only seemed to reinforce the belief that it's everybody for themselves.
Hmm...I don't think that made sense. I'm sleep-deprived.
I swear this is the last time I'll post, but I don't think most of you realize how much things have changed over the last ten years in regards to vaccines, especially in regards to the amount of vaccines we give to our kids at certain points in their lives. At three months alone, kids get 5 vaccines in one shot. Five! How can that be good for a child?
I don't doubt that certain vaccines might do some good, but I still haven't seen proof. I'm under the impression that several of the diseases that we vaccinate against were on the decline before the vaccine was put to use, mainly due to better sanitation in cities and rural areas.
Seriously, I'll get off the topic. Lots of love to you all.
I knew that I might start something with the vaccinations thing. Let me just say this: In having my first child, I did a lot of research into vaccinations. I have not found ONE study that was not biased towards drug companies that proved that vaccinations are actually effective.
Keep in mind, I don't want to start a flamewar over this. I'm not a scientist and I don't have the hard evidence sitting in front of me from the research I did two years ago, but if someone could point out a study that gave me reasonable, unbiased results proving that vaccinations work, I would be more than happy to read it.
In regards to things like Chicken Pox...they're childhood diseases. We're supposed to get them to help increase our immune system. Why do they give a vaccination for Ghonnorhea (please, for the love of God, forgive my spelling) to a baby not yet hours old?
I hope no one here thinks that I've not vaccinated my kids just for the hell of it. A lot of thought was given. My only beef with vaccinations is that no one really questions them anymore.
Michael - In regards to the link about autism, my only question is who funded the study.
Okay, I'm done. Villify me if you'd like, but if someone could point me to compelling information about vaccines that doesn't gloss over the hard facts, I'd appreciate it.
Thanks Xopher! In case you were wondering (which you probably weren't, but I have to spout off anyway), we had the baby at home with a mid-wife. I guess if we're discussing political things here, I could add my two cents about vaccinations (and why I haven't vaccinated either of my kids), the overwhelming number of c-sections in North America, and how people should have to be licensed to have kids in the first place because there are an inordinate number of idiots out there having them (but then, I guess I'm getting a bit radical here).
Plus, I could add the fact that my wife gets a year off with compensation here in Canada (supported by the government). I'm American, so the fact that this could happen (and the fact that I got six months paid paternity leave with our first child) completely blows my mind. Go Canada!
How about that, Patrick? Having a baby at home? Does that equal a gmail invite?
Hey Patrick,
Being as we just had our second daughter Sunday night at 2 AM, I think we desperately need a gmail invite so that we can send out thousands of pictures of our daughter to friends who will only casually glance at them and then delete.
Please, please, please? I can come up with a better reason if you'd like, but I think that's a pretty good one.
| Year | Number of comments posted |
|---|---|
| 2004 | 17 |
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