The most recent 20 comments posted to Making Light by Bob:

Patrick,

In your own follow-up to the quoted post, you wrote:

"One thing the last week has clarified is that, as far as a lot of right-wingers are concerned, self-reliance and survivalism are virtues only when practiced by people who look like right-wingers. Practiced by the rest of us, they’re grounds for summary execution."

I took your post to imply that you agreed with Alameida's basic premise that whatever you have to do in order to survive is not only what you WOULD do, but was also morally ok. So it's a joke when the example used to support the premise is demonstrably wrong, but you're serious when you want to assert your right to survive as well?

I didn't consider Alameida's basic assertion that none of us would sit there waiting to be rescued if salvation was sitting in a locked store down the street to be humorous - I took it as her main point. My argument has consistently been that getting all "ooh-rah" about how empowering it might be to smash a window and grab what we need to live is stupid. It's not only stupid, it's a murderously-stupid idea that you and Alameida put forth while there are real people dying because they either believed in something similar, or they believed someone's lie about help being on the way.

Patrick,

I'm not sure why my name ("Bob") is such a big deal to you, or why it matters that I haven't posted comments here before. As to your assertion that I've failed to pursue the discussion in good faith, I would challenge anyone who agrees with you to review your comments in this thread in contrast to my own.

I've tried to make a point about actual preparation vs. being willing to do anything to survive. Your comments have consisted alternately of attempts to paint me as a racist or a sexist. You've never responded to my basic point.

Alameida's comments have consisted of challenges to my assertion that basic preparation is relatively simple - she never argued that her post was meant to be humorous.

That's fine. It's your board, to do with as you please.

To the people who (rightly) pointed out that it's not wise to prescribe antibiotics for yourself and that many drugs won't last without refrigeration:

Go back to the originally quoted post. Do you imagine that the antibiotics you grab from the pharmacy after shooting some other survivor will be easier to self-administer, or that they'll somehow last without refrigeration just because you're willing to kill to get them?

My comment was about the absurdity of planning to raid for supplies rather than preparing before a disaster. If you've got a condition, or a need, that can't be met in advance through purchase, then it's probably not going to be met by grabbing a gun and hitting an abandoned store. Don't fantasize that you'll be able to make it just because you're willing to do anything to survive: EVERYBODY is willing to do anything to survive.

Patrick,

The post I read described grabbing the SKS, sticking a pistol in their waistband, and heading down to their pharmacy to grab supplies, while being willing to shoot anyone who looked at them 'wrong' on the way. That sounds like derring-do to me, and that's not a browser incompatibility.

Your suggestion that I'm equating the victims of both the hurrican and the government's bungling to the author of the post you quoted is ridiculous. I referred only to the post you quoted, and never tried to infer that any of the victims in NO were following that post's advice.

enjay,

I agree that not everyone can afford supplies. Rambo-types that have an SKS and a pistol certainly CAN, however, and it seems obvious to me that selling your extra rifle or pistol now to buy supplies that could prevent your from needing a rifle or pistol later would be a wise trade.

alameia,

I just ordered a general antibiotic that is commonly prescribed for young children online for my cat. Most animal antibiotics are identical to those prescribed for humans. The antibiotic I just ordered was a legitimate renewal for my cat, but I could just have easily renewed the prescription and kept the medicine just in case. As for narcotics, I guess you believe that every drug user has a verifiable need for their drug of choice and a prescription? Seriously, when compared with your idea of running around and shooting at people, how bad is it to buy drugs illegally? I live in a very rural area, and I've lived here less than a year, but I already know where to go if I wanted some heavy narcotics.

The point of my post was not that the victims of the hurrican did anything wrong- the point was that fantasizing that you'll grab your gun and fight your way to the last bottle of pills in the drug store is stupid and irresponsible. It's boring to quietly accumulate spare antibiotics through pet pescriptions, but it's safer. If you don't have the money, you don't have the money. You can at least store some 2 liter bottles with a drop of nonscented bleach in each in a dark place for emergencies, and that wouldn't cost anything.

alameida professes to own multiple firearms, and seems more than willing to use them to get what's needed. Someone in that position has no justification refusing to spend $100 for emergency supplies.

While I agree that a survival situation negates a lot of moral debate that might go in an ordinary situation, the post quoted demonstrates a willful, almost wishful, fantasy of derring-do that is a generally BAD IDEA. While we all might imagine how cool it would be to run around with pistols in our waistbands, grabbing drugs and supplies to keep ourselves alive and being generally McGyver-esque, the author seems to forget about all the other people who would have the same idea, who would also have guns (and might be better at it than you), and who would be just as willing to shoot someone who looked at them wrong.

If you've got the guts to break into a pharmacy and grab what you need to survive in a disaster, then you should have the guts to quietly accumulate those same supplies now, through the much safer method of exchanging cash for them and storing them somewhere safe. Anyone who claims that they can't get a prescription for antibiotics or painkillers is either incredibly naive or simply isn't trying very hard.

If your back is against the wall, then maybe it's an ok moral choice to shoot some other survivors so that you can grab what you need to live. If you've got $100 in your pocket right now but you don't have enough supplies to make it for at least a week without outside help, then you should be running down to that same pharmacy you're daydreaming about looting and buying those same products. When the disaster comes, you can sit tight and live off your emergency supplies while everyone else is out getting shot, stabbed and beaten over the last Snickers bar.

Deliberately putting yourself into a desperate situation so that you can then justify your actions as a necessity is the worst kind of moral cowardice.

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